Why North Atlantic High Speed Rail Is Still a Pipe Dream
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 20 มิ.ย. 2023
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The entire developed world is building high speed rail lines to connect large cities that are in the "too long to drive, to short to fly" category of distance. The United States is building high speed rail between...Bakersfield and Fresno. Today's video digs into the US city pair that's most desperate for true high speed rail: New York to Boston.
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Previous CityNerd Videos Referenced:
- Top 10 US City Pairs for High Speed Rail: • Top 10 Places to Build...
- HSR vs Air vs Car: Canada Edition: • High Speed Rail vs. Ai...
- Improving and Expanding Acela: • U.S. High Speed Rail: ...
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Resources:
- The North Atlantic Rail Initiative: northatlanticrail.org/
- gothamist.com/news/after-scra...
- www.bloomberg.com/news/articl...
- thehill.com/changing-america/...
- www.bloomberg.com/news/articl...
- dailyhive.com/vancouver/state...
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Images
- Boston skyline thumbnail Image by Mohan Nannapaneni from Pixabay
- CAHSR map By User:Shannon1 - Own work, CC BY-SA 4.0, commons.wikimedia.org/w/index...
- TGV By Markus Eigenheer from Genève - SNCF TGV 4403, CC BY-SA 2.0, commons.wikimedia.org/w/index...
- NBA highlight • 30 Minutes of the BEST...
- Acela By Stang - Own work, CC BY 4.0, commons.wikimedia.org/w/index...
- Delta Airbus A321 By MarcelX42 - Own work, CC BY-SA 4.0, commons.wikimedia.org/w/index...
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Like, literally, the Nebula version of THIS VIDEO does not have two and half minutes of me promoting Nebula in it. If that isn't worth $2.50 a month, I don't know what is.
I just subscribed to Nebula, with your promotion. I am big fan of your content.
The 4 spanish flights are likely just connetion on larger flights like how u can fly to any place in the south as long as u go through atlanta
Since you mentioned Boston Transit and legislation failure week, I should mention that you can squeeze at least a few videos on how awful Boston transit has become over the past two decades.
Why no one ever talks about the esch-Cummins act ? That’s what the rail workers are saying preventing American fail from being great again .
I just watched this video on Nebula and, like all the other TH-camrs I watch on Nebula, I had to come & scroll through it here to clear it from my unwatched/recommended videos, stopping to play through the Nebula ad. That video about the airline disaster was intense. Nebula is good. Everyone should sign up for Nebula.
[I just posted this as a separate comment, then realized it belongs here]
My family and I drove from DC to New York this past weekend. It was a mistake. It was horrendous. There are no benefits to driving, none. You may ask, "but you have a 2 year old, driving has to be the better option". No, getting to New York faster is the better option. Getting there on a train, where a 2 year old can walk, where if he poops, we can change him without stopping is the better option. Building high speed trains would make family travel incalculably better.
Driving to NYC is almost always a mistake. Unless NYC is just one stop amongst many that you're making on some kind of NE corridor road trip.
I mean, there’s a reason he focused on NY to Boston in this video. The NY to DC stretch actually has fairly decent speeds and is much faster than driving. We do more or less have it between the District and Manhattan. You just didn’t take it.
i mean I95 being out in philly surely didnt help
@@michaelimbesi2314 No disagreement here. My family, as Americans, didn't think about it, as @CityNerd mentioned. Part of that not thinking about it was the "presumed high cost of rail travel", the "need to bring any and all possible things for a toddler", and " "how do we get out of the city to visit family".
When you add in tolls, parking, fuel, and the cost of your time driving across Long Island, it's a sold win for trains. I don't think Amtrak effectively hammers that point. Amtrak IS cheaper, faster, and overall a better alternative.
Mostly agree, but if, for example, you're moving all your belongings to a new place, a typical high-speed train will not have that type of capacity accommodation, nor will there be an easy means of transporting that stuff from the train to the apartment/house. At that point you'll need a car or even a truck.
As a software engineer living in Long Island City…I feel attacked 😭
Haha seriously hit the nail on the head (i do love sports though)
Do you like sports though? Haha
Me too lmao
Lol, me too. City Nerd described me pretty accurately and then proceeded to zoom in on my actual apartment building.
@@ColinHopkins93 at least I have the originality to live in a walk-up in Hunters Point and not go full new-money tech bro lol
Glad to see much more relatable fictional characters on these videos now. “Sports” guy just felt so unrealistic and disconnected from the average person, but “tech” guy with his luxurious spending habits and disdain for billionaire-funded regional culture wars really could be any one of us
A+ comment
I go to NYC from Hartford every 2-3 weeks and I'm actually grateful that we are least have train services that most other cities don't have. I have multiple train options to get to NYC through Amtrak, CTRail, and Metro-North. It does suck that it takes 2.5 hours but at least it's comfortable, I don't have to drive, and there's a cafe car on Amtrak.
With that said, I've ridden the Chinese and Spanish trains, and it's almost science fiction compared to what we have here. The increase in economic output and quality of life would be remarkable if we could accomplish even a quarter of what the Chinese have done. Instead we seem to be in some kind of self-harm loop of buying bigger and bigger gas guzzlers, desperately trying to push down the cost of gas, getting more and more obese, and continuing to wreck our cities.
China OVERBUILT HSR their railroads are bankrupt...
@tommygogetter5992that Hartford line though. I happily took it today
But the oil companies are making $$$ That's the important thing.
China is loosing billions of dollars per year on their high speed trains. Only one line pays for itself. Rest is heavily subsidized. They don't have economic growth caused by hsr. Tickets are simply too expensive for the purchasing power of median citizen.
Everything in us is much more expensive than in China so it might be the same.
Well said. 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
If only the government gave the same amount in subsidies to Amtrak (read: passenger rail transport in general) that they give to the highways and aviation industry, maybe we’d be in a better place.
Lol, no. Get the facts, do the math. Also, careful about “subsidies”.
There are all sorts of eco nuts throwing around huge figures of “subsidies” for oil companies. It’s propaganda. The real “subsidies” are things like the government paying them to to do research which benefits the industry or interior but wouldn’t be done by the companies individually.
Also there’s a huge difference to giving a million dollar subsidy to a company that pays hundreds of millions in taxes and Amtrak which loses money on most its routes.
@@nunyabidness3075lol found the car apologist. Also I wasn’t aware the Interstate system makes a profit, please tell me more about how many billions it earns in revenue per year…. Oh wait, it doesn’t.
@@nunyabidness3075 Highways/streets also "lose" money on literally all of them but it's never mentioned, it's only mentioned for trains. Horrible talking point.
@@nunyabidness3075 Your arguments are beyond flawed. You are cherry-picking to "make your point".
@@nunyabidness3075 The oil industry primarily receives negative subsidies, i.e. the government doesn't give them money directly but rather allows them to deduct huge sums from their taxable income. It's functionally the same though, and quite unnecessary considering how immensely profitable the industry is.
In fact given the great strategic and economic importance of petroleum there's a strong argument that it shouldn't be left to for-profit corporations at all. Pretty much every country other than US with significant reserves also has a state-owned enterprise doing the bulk of the extraction and refining.
Also Amtrak's purpose is not to make money, it's to provide inter-city passenger rail service to the People of the United States. Them losing money on most routes just shows that the benefit they're providing is not a benefit for-profit corporations would provide. Many of the towns those money losing routes stop in have literally no other option for long distance public transit.
I’d kill for 100 minutes from Boston to NYC on a train. I feel like I’m grieving something that I’ve never had 😢
I’ve lived here for almost a year and haven’t been because I don’t want to take the bus. The train is so much better but whenever I go to buy it’s like 90 both ways which is too much. I’m going at the end of next month though.
"feel like I’m grieving something that I’ve never had" is the dominant emotion I get from all urbanism content, given that I live in North America 🥲
It would be awesome, but even 2 hours would be a game-changing improvement on the current setup.
i know that feeling, I could travel Hamburg-Berlin in like 40 minutes if the german government wasnt so corrupt
As someone that lives near Boston, if you want to talk about policy failure, It's sometimes cheaper to take Amtrak than it is the MBTA from Boston to Providence.
How about the lack of a connection between North and South Station.... 26 billion for the “big dig”... zero for the new train tunnel (“LOL, sorry we spent it all on cars oh noes WE’RE ALL OUTTA MONEY GUYZ!!!!”).
@@danielkelly2210 At root that's also a policy thing... there was room for the train tunnel, but it made the difference between needing major ventilation and not needing it, and was going to cost something like $500M on the original budget. The number might be wrong, but in perspective doesn't change the fact that it was objectively petty.
And that isn’t even the biggest problem the T faces. I want trains that don’t catch on fire
Some of the high speed trains in Europe are actually registered as air flights with flight numbers, and it is probably those ones that Google is showing you. That allows you to get from for example Valencia to New York via Madrid using a train for the first leg of the journey, on a single ticket, but there will be plenty more train services that don't have flight numbers.
And that should be standard, just integrate rail with plane route finders, that way people who would've neer considered a train otherwise will stumble upon them during their searches
That's such a hacky way of integrating rail into plane ticketing... but I can see why it works hahah
CAHSR is not without issues, but they are making real legitimate progress. We’ll have track and train contracts in the next couple years. Caltrain electrification is humming along as well. I’m 90% confident they will finish this project in my lifetime.
The periodic updates CAHSR provides are quite impressive. They're really making fantastic progress despite the complaints from all the naysayers.
If CAHSR is completed as planned and required by Prop 1A, it will be one of the best intercity train services in the world. Max speeds of 220 mph with a travel time from LA of 2h10 to San Jose and 2h40 to SF. That's an average speed of almost 200 mph between LA and SJ. Plus Brightline West operating 180 mph trains between LA and Vegas. Getting anything like that on the NEC would be a dream.
I'd like to see more optimism with this as well. "In my lifetime" is an extremely low bar to set but at least it's getting done as opposed to not existing at all.
Same! I can't wait for the day it's finally completed if I live that long. But ofc it's good to remember that it takes forever to build anything in the States, not just rail
I'd love to have optimism, but I fear that the high speed line never makes it past Palmdale to the south. The Bay area should be able to get it done eventually, but the path through LA is chock full of lawsuits. The Metrolink does have service Palmdale, but the time from there to LA Union Station is two hours, which would make the trip to SF take over 5 hours. Anyone south of Burbank will just fly.
Cleveland not only has a rapid transit link to the airport, but they were actually the FIRST airport in North America to have a direct rapid transit service! I think it says a lot about North American transit when the first city in North America to do this was Cleveland. Something else to consider when talking about why the Acela takes so long to get between NYC and Boston is because part of the section within Connecticut is owned by the CDOT between Stamford and New Haven and the tracks between the RI border and Boston are owned by the MBTA. So the Acela gets stuck. Not to mention the tracks within CT are bumpy and aging, and of course the CT NIMBYs.
As for LaGuardia, that AirTrain thing would've been longer than taking the subway to Jackson Heights and then taking a bus. Having to go east on the 7 to Mets-Willets Point just to go back west was silly. Then again, it's not as silly as one of the proposals was to link Harlem-125th Street to LaGuardia with...A GONDOLA! Of course, a direct subway link to LaGuardia is preferable, but this is NYC we are talking about.
Great work, Kim! Love your work in North Korea!
Great stuff, thank you! I've just become a train nerd, and I love it, BUT...
I was making the drive from DC to Phila several times a year to see my parents, and after 20 ish years, finally got tired of that drive, even before I95 collapsed. I'm a slow learner. So now I take Amtrak, sometimes the Acela if the price is comparable. The train times are too few, and then I have to wait in the Philly Amtrak station to connect to regional rail to my parents' hood. The regional rail only leaves about once per hour. Every time I do it now, I think of all your gushing about more trains and coordinated train times in Europe. Thanks for all the good work!
Thanks for making the effort to drive less; welcome to the urbanist community, glad to have ya! :]
The I-95 collapse was far north of anything that would affect the drive from DC to Philly.
@@gcvrsa it is though; because instead of using the opportunity to tear it down and repurpose the right of way for rail, ‘train’ Joe flew down on a helicopter and promised to fix it in 2 weeks.. :/
@@gcvrsa No, it's in Philly proper. I've driven that part all my life to get to my parents' on the north side of the city.
I have made the Boston to New York trip dozens of times. When money was tighter I took Megabus or Bolt. Travel times varied wildly between 4 hours up to 8. I eventually upgraded to taking the northeast regional which was cheaper than Acela and at least had consistent travel times, more comfortable than the bus and less hectic than flying.
Yeah I thought about mentioning discount buses as part of this. If cost is important, they fill a niche
I used to take Megabus or Greyhound from Boston to Burlington, VT. Other than getting to South Station from my rural town, it was a fairly pleasant trip as long as it wasn’t snowing.
I went to Boston from NYC for President's Day weekend and took the bus because train prices were much higher and travel time was the same -- at least as advertised. Of course we got stuck in traffic getting out of Manhattan on a Friday afternoon so the four hour bus ride turned into five. However, coming back Monday evening was actually just under four hours. It's insane that the train is no faster than that.
I lived in Providence and dated someone in Manhattan for several years (we got married and kept doing this until Covid got us to move in together).
I usually took the bus, but eventually figured out that it made sense to drive to New Haven or Stamford, park, and take the MTA the rest of the way.
Amtrak was just too expensive to take casually. The way they ramped prices up close to departure EVEN THOUGH THE TRAINS WERE MOSTLY EMPTY was insane.
I can relate.
As satisfying as it is to have a reasonably quick, pleasant trip though, it’s also a bit frustrating to know the potential is so much more pleasant, economical and efficient.
I’m a Japanese who booked Boston to NYC this summer. The 370km route is almost equal to Tokyo to Nagoya (1 hour 40 minutes by Shinkansen).
I’m taking Northern Regional (4 hours 20 minutes) because taking Acela would double my fee and only 30 minutes faster.
Nonetheless, I’m glad I have this option (I make airplanes but hate commercial flying), and I’ll try to enjoy the coastal scenery!
Try not to get mugged or robbed amigo
Slower is better for enjoying the scenery! (There is some good scenery on that route but it's not our most scenic rail line. Still, you will see a lot, both pretty and ugly.)
I’ve taken both the Shinkansen and Amtrak…they’re in completely different leagues in terms of convenience and speed. The Shinkansen is really convenient for travel in Japan, meanwhile I rarely ever take Amtrak because it’s simply underdeveloped
@@HaapsaluYT absolutely, given the choice between Acela and Shinkansen, the Shinkansen would be the only choice to consider. But that's not the choice that a traveler has in the US. It's between Amtrak, driving, and flying, and Amtrak is the most civilized of those choices.
I could never live in a tiny apartment like 99% of Japanese people. I think that's why trains work there but it still requires huge amounts of subsidies. One thing I don't like about TH-cam channels like this one is they just lie about or ignore the downsides of public transit.
“I regret to inform you it’s policy failure week on this channel…” 🤣🤣 love your sense of humor so much.
I love when he brought up open restaurants in Boston and it was the cheesecake factory 😂
"We just need the Robert Moses of rail to come along and drive a new rail through all that existing development" didn't have "Robert Moses of rail" on my 2023 bingo but here we are. I know the whole California HSR drama is frustrating but honestly, kudos to them for actually giving it a go! When people say it's the train to nowhere, I laugh because as the saying goes...if you build it, they will come. When NYC subway stations like Bay Ridge and Junction Blvd were first built, there was nothing around them! But as time went on, the surrounding areas became urbanized thanks to the stations motivating people to move there! And an advantage CA has is its size, they don't need to cooperate with other states for a regional HSR since it's just California.
And while Moynihan Train Hall isn't perfect, it's still an upgrade compared to the post-demolition pre-Moynihan Penn basement that New Yorkers and tourists have been stuck with for decades. Though I wish it had those old school station benches that stations like 30th Street Philly or Hoboken Terminal have so I could just chillax, people-watch and enjoy the views. Also, for Boston, there's a Blue Line station by Logan as well as the Silver Line (which is FREE from Logan). The reason you got that over 30-minute result is because that's a Plymouth & Brockton bus to Hyannis, and the fare between just South Station and Logan...is 14 dollars one way.
The whole right wing "train to nowhere" meme is also complete bunk. Both Fresno and Bakersfield have 1 million population metros. Furthermore the high speed Central Valley line will have a cross platform transfer to local trains in Merced from day one.
I really wish that the ostensibly pro-rail community stopped believing this type of overt anti-rail propagana.
And considering how expensive it is to live in a place like LA, having the option to live somewhere else that’s cheaper and quickly commute into LA for work is going to be appealing to a lot of people.
I've taken the NEC non-Acela service on trips between Boston, Providence, NYC and Baltimore. And although it might be slower in some instances, it is more comfortable and reliable than flying. If booked early enough it is certainly cheaper too.
If they made it a true HSR in that corridor it would quickly kill almost all the point-to-point air demand between those cities.
It's actually not slower in terms of speed, it makes more stops so the NEC takes longer.
It's very doubtful that the physical space exists (amongst all the built-up land in that area) to provide the capacity to kill the air demand in the region. There can be hundreds more flights than trains.
I took the train between Providence and DC and it was great
Okay, Ray, I’m entering that stage of life where travel and money are increasingly difficult. But I rely on Northeast Corridor Amtrak trains for certain things. Now that I moved from the Albany, NY area to southeast VA, but my brother remains up north, I go there at least twice a year. The summer trip is an agonizing two-day road trip (because I am hauling stuff up and other stuff down), swinging far to the west to avoid the D.C megalopolis and the whole downstate NY area (unless for some reason I take I-78 east across PA, then 287 in NJ up to the NYS Thruway. The rest of the time, it’s Amtrak. Under the best schedule, I get from Newport News (southern terminus of NE corridor) to Schenectady, NY in 13-some hours, including a two-hour layover at Penn Station. There’s a lot of people who disembark at Union Station D.C., to be replaced by travelers heading to Penn. The train, despite the 13 hr, is by far the best way to go. Flying would take only a little less time, cost a fortune now, and subject me to the torture of 2023 flying. I think that, besides the huge cost to make this high-speed, you’ve got a lot of Congress people representing citizens who have never gone to Europe or Asia and have no idea how much better train travel can be - and worth the investment. Amtrak also has a bad reputation for being late on long-haul, east-west trips, which is related to sharing tracks with freight railroads - which always get priority. In Europe, passenger trains have priority.
@@josephfisher426 A pair of tracks takes about the same width as about 1.5 highway lanes and you can easily have a train with 900 passengers every 5 minutes.
The planes on that route typically have a capacity of 150-200 passengers, and they definitely don't depart every 5 minutes.
I made a spur of the moment choice to go to NYC and back on the same day from Boston this past weekend. I spent 9 hours on the train for only 8 hours in NY and had to spend well over $200. I would kill for this high speed option
Unless the politicians in Massachusetts and New York get together to work on this and get RI and CT in on it, it is a stillborn dream. Not to mention the fact that the federal pursestrings required for it have the input of politicians from states that have zilch to do with it or gain from it but who love to screw things up for others just because it makes them look good to their voters.
I’m just about to take Acela from PVD to NYC. I’ve had to accept that going from providence to boston is fast (under 30 minutes), but going to NYC at this point it’s about comfort and not speed. It could take less than 2 hours with proper HSR but here we are hitting a nearly 4 hour trip.
I’m a former Bostonian living in London. Recently took the Eurostar to Amsterdam in under 4 hours. That’s 4 countries plus the English Channel in less time than the Boston NYC trip. It’s wild. I’m not coming back.
There needs to be a bypass to LI CT is stupid slow and needs to go back to 90 mph speed
@@qjtvaddict the providence to Hartford alignment alone would be the easiest to construct. Then just upgrading the route down to New Haven. That alone could easily shave off 1-1.5 hours of time and could begin immediately.
At that point, a ferry between Providence and NYC could be quicker lol
@@qjtvaddictwhy settle for 90, let’s go for over 200
Thank you CityNerd for chugging out that weekly content. Here’s an idea for a video along with a bribe. I think it would be interesting to compare and contrast different styles of US urban fabric, but in particular the “old Main Street” style vs. new urbanism (which often manifests as 5 over 1s with one or two chain anchor tenants). You can find both development styles in mid sized neighborhoods across the country, and it’s pretty easy to tell when you’re in one or the other. Maybe you could compare and contrast the two, explain the history as to why we stopped building the former and largely only build the latter the past few decades.
Thanks for blessing us with all the pretty charts and google earth shots over the past few years!
Yeah, I have a couple ideas around old streetcar-style urban fabric but I hadn't thought to contrast it with the modern 5-over-1 type urbanism, so thanks for that twist. I will definitely so something along these lines in the not too distant future. Thanks!
Amtrak's pricing is so danged random.
“Our urbanist boy” lmao I love your satire
Ironic as I’m going from Boston to NYC this weekend and train was the most expensive and longest travel time between bus flying train
Riding Amtrak requires the kind of advance planning you typically associate with buying a flight to Europe or across the continent. In other countries, you can always find at least a few affordable rail options at the last minute.
Amtrak is underutilized.
As a clevelander it's very convenient to have the rapid to the airport.
Ah
Cleveland looks really underrated. Even if it's attached to boring Ohio.
Also, thank you for not using a sports analogy. Those are super alienating.
I lived in Boston for over a decade and the fastest cheapest way to go to NYC was the Chinatown bus. Safety and comfort were not considered and I stopped doing that once I got a little older. I took Acela once and it was an expensive let down.
Those who know, know! Chinatown bus was always a wild time haha. But those $10 tickets definitely don’t guarantee if you’ll get there at all 😂
@@Kaigotitright my friend joked that when he slept on that bus he’d either wake up in New York or dead.
Local equivalent in Texas is the Tornado and El Expresso Bus Company. It has the additional hazard of getting searched by La Migra.
@@marissaswinghammer3149 I had a professor of mine who once had to hold the bus door all the way to Hartford because the driver asked him to. It wasn’t until Hartford when the driver explained to him that the door might fall off and he didn’t have tape on him at the time.
Chinatown bus is by far the cheapest. AMTRAK plus LIRR costs at least a kidney
When I lived in NYC 20 years ago getting to LaGuardia was extremely difficult...and it seems like nothing has changed. I'd take the subway from Brooklyn to Queens (via Manhattan), and then would often have to wait 30-60 minutes for the (packed) bus to come. I eventually started flying exclusively through Newark, which was geographically further away, but only a subway + path train ride away. So much more convenient.
So I no longer live up there but it’s funny you say that because I was in Newark and would go to la guardia. The bus was always there or 2 min. Wait. Maybe I got lucky
May this video somehow put in motion the events necessary to produce legislation for the new alignment.
On the canceled LaGuardia train effort: The proposal had the train going out of the airport away from the city center resulting in a longer trip time from Manhattan than the current bus service. My understanding is that this was due to a requirement for employee parking at the connecting station that was included so they could extend a runway into the current employee parking lot.
The longer trip time in exchange for not having traffic unpredictability I think was okay. The 7 train has modern signals and really frequent service
Thank you for continuing to hammer this point. Spain’s high-speed trains are excellent and we should be doing that, starting with the Northeast Corridor..
About the tunnel building. If the sound is not too deep, you could use what Denmark is doing with the Femarnbelt-Tunnel. Dig a trench under water lower huge concrete segments down in the trench. Close the trench up and connect the segments. Also we have cheaper and better boring companies in Europe and Japan which are happy to do this.
Side note: The Las Vegas tunnels are big enough to run the Glasgow subway through it. And that is actually able to run without a driver (with the new rolling stock).
The Sound is too shallow, not too deep. The major issue is where it would land on each side. Billions of dollars in real estate buyouts would be required to even get a right of way, assuming people would even sell their seaside property. Never mind the noise issues, environmental issues, etc. A tunnel is a pipe dream.
@@stevetalkstoomuch immersed tunnels do not need a lot of cover. And you could stay underground on both sides. Of course it would be expensive and there might be other options to get high speed traffic in and out of the city.
A similar method was used to build the Baltimore Harbor Tunnel in the 1950s (which carries 2 lanes of vehicles each tube).
This is oddly timely as I am a tech urbanist guy deciding if I should fly or take the train to providence for my upcoming meetings
Yeah, failure to connect LaGuardia to the subway does not bode well for American transit projects. The US's cities need bold regional leaders who will ignore local opposition (what's their opposition based on, again?) to complete projects beneficial to urbanism. If enough NIMBYs lose their cases maybe it will have a chilling effect on baseless suits.
Local opposition to development in NYC is largely a product of the disastrously destructive programs pushed through by Robert Moses in the 20th Century, and additionally a product of the strange phenomenon in NYC (and Philadelphia) politics that is the city councilmember prerogative.
True but it’s a quick lil shuttle bus to the subway. I’m cheap, I’m not paying the $16 bus
I was there when Acela started. There were so many promises. It turned out to be all nonsense. My family moved to Poland, now we have great affordable high speed trains, and they are getting even better
I had my first train experience this past spring taking the intercity from Kraków to Gdańsk…. I was so angry haha. The US is supposedly such a wealthy country and yet we can’t seem to manage anything even close to that. I drove across Poland last year and gosh the train was so much nicer of an experience.
@@CarrieJamrogowicz you should try the Pendolino train next time. They are even faster
@@tnickknight hm maybe that is what I took, first timer and my Polish is rough. Five hours admiring the scenery, so nice.
All I can say is that the "New Britain" stop will most likily be at the Berlin(-Kensington) Station.
I lived in NJ and went to school in Boston. Door to door was exactly the same either driving or flying.
I noticed you didn't even mention taking the train in this comparison 😂
@@ProfessorPancakes420 The train would've more expensive and taken an additional 3-5 hours. The least viable option.
In Canada the Calgary to Edmonton high speed just hit a new milestone. 🤞
Is that a metric milestone or imperial?
The simple reason: it would be *WAY* too expensive to procure the right of way for a dedicated high-speed rail line. Look at the huge issues California is having to get the right of way for their high-speed rail service.
You hit the nail right on the head, Getting right of way and all the endless studies and reviews keep this from being a reality.
I’m a tech guy living near Boston that has to get to NYC quite often for conferences and customer visits. So, it’s basically just the opposite of your scenario. 😂. I ALWAYS take the train. I haven’t taken a flight to NYC in over 25 years. I do complain that the train is so shaky and not smooth that it’s hard to work on the laptop computer. The computer screen shaking around gives me a headache. On a smooth flight with no turbulence, it’s easier for me to work on the laptop. Trains in Europe and Asia are MUCH smoother than the Acela from Boston to NYC!!!!!
Glad to see the triangle graph finally used correctly on your channel. lol
For some reason I watched this here instead of Nebula. whoops?
The MBTA's Blue Line nearly directly services Logan Airport. The Blue Line has a stop called Airport immediately next to Logan where one can access free busses that take passengers directly to the four terminals, and vice versa. Not sure why in your example Google suggested taking the bus to South Station, because the Blue Line trip from Airport to State Street station (downtown) then walking would probably be quicker.
And not just any bus, the privately-operated P&B bus to Hyannis, which will cost Mr. Techbro $14 one-way. I think maybe he was looking too far out and MBTA hadn't sent schedules to Google for that date yet.
as a clevelander, ouch, but thanks for highlighting our meager city rail system lol. It definitely should be a lot better, and even used to be back in the days of the streetcars. The city is finally starting to invest some into the MTA but not sure if it'll be enough
"If I seem annoyed..." Yeah man. You're always annoyed. That's why I subscribed.
Great video as always. And thank you for the glimpse of the kitty at the end 😻
I’m a tech guy and I enjoy sports. Yes I bill at 100+ an hour. Yes I live in a nice new apt next to several(10) trains in Manhattan, NYC. You practically nailed me down. 😮 I feel seen.❤
One city I think about more often then I should is Harrisburg, PA. I stopped there once on a roadtrip and was very pleasantly surprised by the narrow streets, dense townhomes, old architecture, pedestrian traffic, and ?cobblestone?, I think. If you ever do a video of tiny cities in the mid-atlantic (50-100k maybe), see if you can find a way to fit it into the top ten :)
That feeling when you're about to move to a new state for the first time and someone posts a comment saying nice things about your hometown is something I wasn't expecting today. Yes, Harrisburg is lovely and I've always been confused as to why people kept wanting to leave.
@CityNerd I am in Japan, and I can totally relate to your comment at the end of the video about traveling to Spain. Honestly the US have completely failed as a country, and it saddens me that so many people don't realize it.
We've failed as a country but the lack of HSR on par with Japan, China or Spain is not one of them.
I've also used the Spanish HSR network a few times over the past decade. It's hard to convey how fast, how quiet, how comfortable, just how overall pleasant an experience these trains are, and how city-centre-to-city-centre travel makes the air travel option seem masochistic by comparison.
I am surprised with how cheap the rails are in Europe compared to the US and Japan. People were complaining alot about Japan raising their rail pass price, and more people are looking into the regional pass. There is no way you are getting a tokyo to nagoya shinkansen ticket for under 10000 yen or what used to be closer to $100. Although with the strong dollar, it is less now if you are an American visiting. Seeing European Rail tickets for $30 it really is impressive how they can keep prices so low. Yes the US and Japan are richer than Spain, but that is no excuse for that big of a price difference.
A lot of it is how much of the travel is subsidized.
@@guppy719 So Europe subsidizes their passenger rail more? while the US and Japan don't
Two good reasons. 1) Japan has earthquakes to deal with so rail construction and maintenance is higher and 2) Their trains actually run on time!
@@linuxman7777 There are no subsidies for HSR services in Spain; but there is competition in the main corridors.
i hate air travel and car travel to the point where if im given a choice i will choose a slower train over a faster airplane or car ride. bonus points if the train has a dining car. my school did these week long camping trips for a while and we usually went by train but there were some accidents so we took a flight one year and it was horrible. it was an overnight train but only like 2-3 hours flying but i still hated it so much
Commuter rail in MA was also supposed to go electric soon, since their trains are essentially all from the 70s, yet that just also seems to keep getting delayed. Not to mention the green line extension taking like 3 years longer than it should have and still going slower than someone on their morning jog. Somehow they will also be making a high speed rail success at the same time genuinely sounds like a pipe dream.
Still, the commuter rail system / Downeaster Amtrak is really reliable from experience.
If the actual high speed rail will exist any time in the future that is great because it means I'll have to spend less time in Connecticut.
All other factors aside, I can't help but chuckle whenever the lack of security hassles is cited as an advantage to the train, as if trains are somehow immune to the kind of threats that resulted in said airport security hassles.
theyre still far less common than, say, dying in a car accident
To be fair, it would have been pretty difficult to cause the twin towers to collapse by crashing a train into them.
I'm so glad you addressed this problem. The terrible duration, frequency, and cost of the BOS-NYC Acela route has made me gnash my teeth for decades.
The difference in travel time between even the two halves of the NEC is beyond frustrating, particularly when almost the time lost on the NY-Boston leg happens in the first third or so of the distance because Metro-North owns it. Washington is almost exactly the same distance but it happens almost an hour and a half faster.
That’s because they were built by two different railroads and through different geography. The Pennsylvania RR runs relatively straight segments to Philadelphia and points south. The NY, Hartford, and New Haven RR connected communities along the curvy coast. It was never built for speeds we’re wishing for over 100 years later.
@@chrispontani6059 Having ridden from south of Baltimore to Boston roundtrip a couple times, the difference between the portion south and north of NYC is stark. Aside from the tunnels in Baltimore there's nothing that feels too slow in MD, PA, and NJ. Meanwhile in CT you're winding along sleepy fishing towns. I remember looking at the rail proposal CN brought up a couple years ago, but I would also love serious thought given to a route north from NYC to Springfield then east.
the california HSR is a project i have never looked forward to more in my entire life. i will have harnessed enough happiness to provide the world with a milion years worth of energy when it's finished. i swear upon this
Videos like this are why I love this channel
Ah, an east coast high speed rail. NYC to Boston. Philli to NYC. NYC to DC. DC to Pittsburgh. A boy can dream.
Until then, we have to settle for Fresno to Bakersfield. I hope that at the very least it serves as an economic stimulus to the area.
It's too bad there is no longer a water taxi between LaGuardia and Manhattan. I used to take it when I took the shuttle from DC to LaGuardia many years ago. While it didn't really save time, it was much more pleasant than other options. At this point Amtrak is the clear winner DC to NYC.
I like your idea for the high speed rail route from NY to Boston. Like most good ideas, it is unlikely to happen in my lifetime.
loved the sass in this video at various points. sometimes it does feel like the biggest barrier to progress is a simple unwillingness from government to actually... govern
Thank you for always posting just in time for my lunch break! 😂
I would love to see a video on cities with great airport to city center connections, such as Frankfurt and Amsterdam.
Philadelphia
I recently flew into Frankfurt enroute to Mainz. Was planning to take the train but guess what? The Mercedes taxi was a lot faster and easier (door-to-door with luggage) albeit a bit more expensive. Did use the train exclusively once in Mainz though.
I believe he did that in the form of a top 10 list already.
To be fair, Cleveland figured it out before anybody else. I don't remember the exact stat, but it was the first city to have a direct heavy rail line between the airport and downtown. I don't remember if it's just a direct heavy rail line or a heavy rail line period. I think it has to be directly connected to the airport though. And it might just be in the US, or could be in North America, or the world; I'm not sure.
It’s heavy rail that connects from the airport through downtown then all the way to my neighborhood on the far east of Cleveland which is the home to the best station that has all the connections to the eastern suburbs. That and the health line are incredibly great examples of transit in a city that isn’t even that great.
the one thing i’d really want to do if i were mayor of cleveland is emphasize our great rapid system that’s just sitting underutilized
@@cdw2468 it’s underutilized because the population density. The more people that they can lure to the city the more would use it. I didn’t used to drive when I moved back after college because of the train.
@@theeggreat4 i do feel like it’s a chicken an egg scenario, maybe people use the transit because they come back to downtown, but also they come back downtown because they have transit
It’s underutilized because it was built for cheap in an existing rail corridor that connects three major destinations but travels through single-family housing and depopulated (post-)industrial lands.
Yay, thanks for doing one for the Urbanist Boyz!
13:20 interesting North Atlantic Rail alignment NYC - Long Island Sound - Hartford - Providence - Boston
I've ridden that Acela from NY to Boston. Some things to add:
1.) The Acela gets stuck in traffic, especially around Connecticut. We only reached the max speed of about 150mph once between Rhode Island and Massachusetts... And it was quite bumpy.
2.) The other trains Amtrak runs on that route are actually pretty decent. I rode the Northeast Corridor train that went 120mph. DC to Philly to New York is less congested and the trains can go much faster.
3.) I'd still take the train between NYC to Boston over flying. Fewer delays, considerably more comfortable, not waiting at a gate for two hours.
4.) Boston restaurants close EARLY. Going somewhere after 8pm is fairly challenging. That tech bro is going straight to the hotel and to sleep.
If it's policy failure week...you would need at least an hour every day all week
“A little depressing” is an under statement. Im from NYC area and almost tempted to move to Europe like Not Just Bikes.
Thanks for breaking this down for all of us!
oh gawd. As a native Rhode Islander whose grandparents all lived in NJ, you've triggered some well suppressed memories of bumper to bumper on I95, in a packed car where 2/4 of the kids (myself included) got motion sick easily. Living on the other side of the country has made me forget all that. Until now.
Planning my first trip as a transit newb (this channel is at least somewhat to blame) from Indiana on Amtrak's Cardinal to DC just so I can experience "high-speed" rail in for the first time by riding Acela from DC to NYC and then Boston next week, so very timely. Not being spoiled with "real" high-speed rail in other countries, I hope my experience will be enlightening?
I watch a lot of different YT creators and I have to commend you that there are very few that literally make me laugh out loud. Your verbal delivery makes this channel S tier and I look forward to your videos each week for both their educational and comedic content.
The Cardinal really struggles with the ownership of the right-of-way by others. The one time I took it was on time-ish westbound, but eastbound was stopped in the Charlottesville area so long that they bought box meals for the passengers, which was a good thing because everything at DC Union Station was closed by the time it got in. Was something like 5 hours late.
Don't expect "high speed" rail speeds from NYC to Boston until you past New London, CT. From there, the Acela (and even Northeast Regional) moves. You'll hit top speeds in R.I. and Mass.
I had to go from Washington DC to Norfolk VA for work. It's a 4½ hour train ride that goes 3 times a day, but none of those times would get me there early enough so my company paid for an airplane flight.
Yes, please do a video about the lack of a LaGuardia airport subway!
A 58 dollar Acela? Sign me up!
Okay seriously tho, does anybody else find the normal coach Amtraks more comfortable or is it just me?
Would love to see a video discussing the huge infrastructure projects that come with events such as the Olympics or other major sporting events. Specifically thinking of LA’s massive Metro projects with the US Open 2023, FIFA World Cup, and Olympics all coming to the city. Pros? Cons?
Los Angeles is in a "build all the things" mode, which is only mildly sped up for the Olympics (and will continue long after). Having a dedicated local source of funding allows this luxury.
I think if this is a good or bad thing heavily depends on what a city does with it.
The Munich S-Bahn and first line of the U-Bahn were both built for the Olympics 1972 and to this day form the backbone of rapid transit in the city. In the same matter the first Japanese Shikansen line was built for the Olympics 1964. Quite recently Vancouver built the Skytrain line to the airport for the Winter Olympics 2010.
All of these projects share an important feature. They weren’t planned to especially serve the Olympics, but rather get the transit system into a state, where it could handle something like the Olympics. The plans had been around for a while, they just needed the money and kick in the butt to actually build it.
Recently a bunch of cities hosted the Olympics where most of the purpose built infrastructure seems to mainly serve the event and visitors, while afterwards being oversized or even useless to the city. In that case using the money for other things would probably have been better.
LA is certainly more in the first group, I just don’t think what they’re building is a good fit for the city in general. But that’s not something the Olympics can fix.
I am strongly in favor of this idea - on both coasts (Seattle to Portland comes to mind immediately whenever anyone mentions high speed rail). Unfortunately the next thing that comes to mind is a group of airline lobbyists padding the pockets of congressmen to keep them from agreeing to fund high speed rail projects.
Haven't watched the video yet, but I live in Boston and as someone who has bothen driven and taken the train many times, and Acela is my go-to for getting to NYC these days; even bad Acela is better than driving in the best of conditions imo.
La->Vegas->Phoenix
Vegas->Salt Lake city->Denver
Salt Lake city->Boise->Seattle
These cities are almost ideally apart for High-Speed Rail and the federal government already owns most of the land between them. We could add Portland and San Francisco. Forget about the East Coast if you want to jump start High-Speed Rail. Look at the major airport hubs we already have in the West and link those up with rail. West of the Rocky Mountain divide and the Texas triangle. That is where High-Speed Rail is going to take off in this country because that is where it is most affordable. Get the low hanging fruit done first. Do it in a place that is exploding with growth so that that growth is based upon the infrastructure. While we're at it we could out in some more affordable Spurs to places like Zion's National Park or Yosemite or the Grand Canyon. I think that's like 25 million visitors a year just for those three parks. Let's build High-Speed Rail in the West
Combined statistical areas of the United States(Rank, city, Population to nearest million)
2 LA 18 million
5 San Fran 9 Million
6 Dallas 8 million
8 Houston 7 million
13 Phoenix 5 million
14 Seattle 5 million
17 Denver 3 million
19 Portland 3 million
22 Salt Lake city 3 million
23 Sacramento 3 million
25 San Antonio 3 million
29 Las Vegas 2 million
45 Fresno 1 million
65 Boise 1 million
National parks by visitation
(Rank name visitors to nearest million)
2 Grand Canyon 5 million
3 Zion's 5 million
4 Rocky Mountain 4 million
6 Yosemite 4 million
7 Yellowstone 3 million
8 Joshua Tree 3 million
Busiest airports in North America
2 LA 42 million
4 Dallas 36 million
5 Denver 34 million
7 San Francisco 28 million
8 Seattle 25 million
10 Vegas 24 million
13 Phoenix 23 million
14 Houston 22 million
23 Salt Lake City 13 million
24 San Diego 13 million
30 Portland 30 million
32 Austin 8 million
33 Dallas(again) 8 million
35 San Jose 8 million
36 Houston(again) 7 million
39 Oakland 7 million
40 Sacramento 6 million
44 San Antonio 5 million
I haven't even added Saint Louis, Oklahoma city, Indianapolis or a little town called Chicago to our network yet.
The West was literally settled and developed by rail! It might be the most suitable place for rail in the entire world. Amtrak's complete incompetence is not evidence against that fact! Argh
14:20 Dont think the comparison to the English Channel tunnel is all that fair.
In terms of financial justification, one connects an island nation to the rest of the continent it is a part of. Going under the Long Island Sound would be a shortcut between states.
Not that it wouldn't be great or shouldn't already exist, but I don't think the NEED for both can't be compared.
But isn't the US the largest economy in the world? It's not that you can't afford to do it, it's that your policy makers don't want to.
great video!! you should make a video on west coast high speed rail, i mainly wanna see how likely you think Portland-Seattle HSR would be in the near future, maybe the next 10-20 years? it'd also be a great topic to also talk about HSR between Vancouver, CA, LA, San Francisco, Vegas, etc!
Just go all the way with maglev at this point you are going to blow money anyway so get the best out of it.
Hi city nerd, thank you for your video! Can you please make a video about transit matters’ plan for Worcester to Boston high-speed regional rail?
As I flew back to St. Louis from Oklahoma City this morning I was thinking how much nicer train travel would be compared to the 65 minute flight. Of course, population couldn’t justify high speed rail.
I’d pay more and accept a longer trip via rail just to have a direct connection, or going through Kansas City.
The thing is, the populations probably don't justify air travel either, but the Federal government's Essential Air Service subsidy program makes sure they're served anyway. The free market in action, as rail-haters would say!
But if there was a Houston - Dallas - Oklahoma City - Tulsa - Kansas City - Saint Louis route it might be doable.
@@danielkelly2210 The size of the subsidy is probably 1% as much as building a high speed line between the two cities.
@@Geotpf Probably much more than 1%, actually.
You should do a comparison of cities in the US-Mexico border in terms of density, transportation, and urban practices
Super fun to watch and insightful. ;)
I'm subbed to Nebula, but I think it needs a few things to bring it on par with YT in terms of accessibility.
1. Device apps, including for TVs
2. Comment sections, community in general
3. Video queues, autoplay
Also, London is not half the size of NYC. They have very similar populations but London is much bigger physically and as a result NYC is more densely populated.
New York city is still a bit bigger even if its not half if you go by metro area. The Bigger key in that the Chunnel is the only rail link between the UK and Mainland Europe while the Tunnel between Long Island and new england isnt.
@@guppy719 Except all the links from Long Island to New England are in Queens and The Bronx and are constantly busy, so they really don't connect the two but are more like distribution routes for I-80/95 from New Jersey and I-87 from Upstate New York.
This creator does the absolute minimum of research for these videos. He basically googles all of this stuff. So most of his population numbers refers to cities as administrative units, not metro areas. And even when he uses metro areas, he uses old outdated measures.
He does this for the SF Bay Area all the time. There's this weird "metro area" measure from the 1950s that only encompasses half of the metro area. Yet, this guy does a whole video that centers around using that wrong number and tries to compare that to other wrong numbers from other metros.
It's kind of hilarious, but also pretty sad.
@@kenlehigh6363 If he decides to talk about a major metro, like say the SF Bay Area, he should at least check if the measure makes sense. It's completely hilarious that he literally chose to chop my metro area in half and didn't even notice the weird effects that that creates in his numbers. I understand that a lot of these old measures are kept around for recordkeeping continuity, but shouldn't he become suspicious when he doesn't ever see that old measure being used for anything in any research? He does read the research about this stuff, right?
Or, if he doesn't know what he's talking about then maybe, I dunno, don't talk about it? Is that really too much to ask for on a channel called "CityNerd"?
I would pay extra for this service. Maybe one day in the far future, if America becomes a first-world country again. But probably not in our lifetimes.
I was in college when the Tenerife disaster occurred. It was the freakiest aircrash ever (back then crashes were more frequent). People were stunned that like 550 passengers died. There are a lot of YT video reenactments, a few really good.
Thanks for the video! I enjoyed this but would have liked to see more details about what improvements are being made to the existing Acela corridor. In the video you kind of glossed over them. I know that accuracy in titles is not what the internet really is about, but I also would have liked to see more explanation of why high speed rail along the corridor isn't going far.
OK, you mention LaGuardia stuff. Yeah, I live in St. Louis I will only fly into Newark.
Also, as much as you want to talk, what do you do? I weigh in the Connecticut department of transportation for every reason why high-speed rail between New York and Boston is a complete and utter farce.
Maximum speed between Connecticut state line and New Haven 70 miles an hour. You can run the SOUTHWEST Tree, RRcrew, New Mexico, and Arizona at 9D Connecticut DOT you are the real problem
Newark is the only NYC airport with a decent transit connection. There's an airport monorail to the NJT station then a pretty good express train into Penn. I think there are only 2-3 stops. It's a comfortable set-up but it doesn't get any love for some reason.
I used to travel from Tokyo to Osaka and back by train on my previous trips using JR Pass so i had no idea why someone would prefer air on this route... But then JR decided to raise JR Pass price so i was forced to do price comparison... and yep. ~140$ shinkansen and ~60$ air ticket - that's your answer why people do prefer air on some somewhat shorter trips.
If you're a normal person in Japan you tend to fly Tokyo-Osaka or take the highway bus. You can get down to Osaka via bus for about $20 and $50 by flying and $140 by train.
@@yashio4214 Then who uses the Shinkansen? for occasional commuters who want city centre to city centre journeys, or those alighting earlier?
The reason why anyone take Shinkansen in Japan is flexibility. Flight in Japan is cheaper only when booked in advanced. Hence Japan HSR would offer best flexibity out of all transport options in Japan.
If I want to depart from Tokyo at late 9pm to Osaka today, there is only 2 choices which are HSR and night bus. The bus will arrive at the morning of the next day but HSR can take me to Osaka in the same day. Plus there is non-reserved seat which mean I can just go to the station, buy a ticket then I am good to go.
This reason also make Shinkansen a popular choice for business travelers.
@@hunterkiller009 that makes sense
I would like to hear your thoughts on historic preservation and its relation to urbanism, good and bad examples
On the side by side, you could also show the carbon footprint of both which is truly shocking.
LGA transit situation could be much improved. It stinks to sit on a long bus trip stuck in traffic or pay $$$ for a cab or ride share
LGA cannot be improved for multiple reasons. Bad location, construction restrictions, lack of surrounding neighborhood support...look at the hellish process that they went through just to get AirTrain to JFK, and that only goes to Jamaica instead of all the way to Manhattan.
I wonder how much impact coordinating multiple states has on the politics of north east hsr. California seems to benefit immensely from the fact it’s one set of statewide rules compared to multiple
Raleigh's mention here is great but what's missed is that we're planning for big things around mass transit and with RUS being the foundation of that. As some others have mentioned, our new Bus Station anchoring some BRT legs will be next door and we have expansion for a 2nd train terminal. Very exciting things happening in Raleigh!
This biosketch of the "urbanist boi" hits too close to home for me, I feel seen. But you are 100% right that it is an utter travesty that the highest GDP megaregion in the world, NYC-BOS, with some 50m people and 3.5 trillion in economic output, does not have high-speed rail.
Meanwhile in Ohio we would be glad just to have trains that don’t stop in the middle of the night.
I don't even know why they bother stopping between DC and Chicago considering the stop times between...
I think this might be the first time that my tiny town has actually appeared in some fashion in a CityNerd video, and I have to say, while it's better than not having train service at all to have an Amtrak station one mile from my home that has a direct line to my hometown, NYC, the fact is that said train runs only once per day in each direction, and it's almost cheaper to drive (aside from parking, which is hit and miss in NYC). So, taking the train to NYC ends up being a minimum of a 3-day trip, because you get into Penn Station in the evening too late to check into a hotel and go to see a show, and you have to leave so early in the morning to catch the return train that you have to stay over an extra day to do anything, at all. And because of the fact that the pricing works the way it does and the train, even at once per day frequency, is so popular, you can forget making any spontaneous or sudden trips.
The timing of both through services to Canada (and the US destinations between there and Schenectady) makes practical sense only for the work schedule at the border crossing!
To be fair It’s almost entirely because of Southwestern CT that the speeds are that slow, because the portions from Niantic-East Haven ( -the Connecticut River Bridge) & especially Boston-Westerly are all Higher-High Speed Rail, heck even the winding turns and grade crossings of Southeastern CT (Waterford-Pawcatuck) are relatively decent (compared to most US passenger rail lines) and compared to the 40mph hellscape that is the New Haven Line looks like the Shinkansen