Player Denied Jackpot 🙅♂️ @ MGM Grand Detroit Due to 8 Year Trespass? How Can This Even Happen?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 7 ก.ค. 2024
- Dave and Marc discuss the news about a patron being denied a $127,000 jackpot due to an 8 year old trespass order from the casino. We weigh in with how we feel about the situation and want to hear from you about what you think!
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I worked with a lady who was banned from our local casino she gave it some time and went back into the casino and was playing slots somehow she was recognized they immediately escorted her out and warned her that they could take legal action against her and told her to never come back she said she learned her lesson
You are correct. I was a casino surveillance supervisor for close to 10 years. Believe me the casino does not want anyone they have banned to be on their property. The gaming board regulates the casino and will levy very high fines to the casino who does not enforce this policy. Anyone banned will be removed from all mailing lists so she would not have received any promotional materials. The moment anyone banned uses their player card at a table game or at a slot machine surveillance is immediately notified and security would re ban them or have them arrested depending on how often they have been caught. Banned patrons know this so don’t use their card so the idea the casino gladly accepted her money when she was losing is flat out wrong. The potential fines from the gaming board far out ways any losing money from the banned patron. Facial recognition systems are not that great. Also there are so many banned patrons it is almost impossible for security or surveillance to recognize them. To me she know she was banned, played the cat and mouse game and finally got caught. I have seen many patrons win a large jackpot and immediately leave the casino knowing they would probably be arrested if they stayed. Nothing about her makes me believe that somehow she was an innocent victim.
Thanks for sharing this!
Does the same apply for self exclusion? I won a jackpot while under exclusion but had to walk away and didnt get the payout.
Totally agree with this statement, "... there are so many banned patrons it is almost impossible for security or surveillance to recognize them."
MGM Casinos except for Vegas check IDs at the door. The ID is checked against any bans that are in place.
If this person had previously used any type of Credit or Debit Card during a time she was supposedly "trespassed", she could prove by past bank statements that she was in fact at the property at a specific date and time. Love watching you guys!
The Riviera was the most recently imploded property, one tower in June 2016, the other two towers in August 2016. I was there during the first tower implosion, but at the Luxor, so unfortunately saw it live on TV and not in person.
@@JamesHooton1985 Thanks james’s i knew i was forgetting something.
Darn, being a 20 year Mirage patron, will be in Vegas the week after. Yes, we received that email, too as we tier matched on last visit in May. Dave, you should go. lol
Interesting show today Marc & Dave. Love watching you two as you're always very informative and help us learn about gaming. On this one, guess it will be a waiting game until we have some concrete evidence of who's at fault here. Keep us informed GSGS ! 😘🍀🍀🍀🌹
Great video, thanks for all this info.
When I lived in Vegas, several properties were demolished. I had no desire to witness in person because I find it to be so sad.
@@vickifeeback168 As do i, kind of why i want to be there. Why we goto funerals to remember and celebrate the life that was.
You all covered the story well. Only thing that keeps crossing my mind is perhaps she's fibbing and that was actually her first time back on the property. If she has offers or win/loss statement that would vindicate her easily. If she hasnt been using her card as you said that implies she knew she wasnt supposed to be there. Hard to take sides on this until more evidence comes out. So i'll reserve judgement until the details come out i hope in court. p.s. google says one of the Riviera towers was the last to be demo'd before that Frontier in 2007 and Boardwalk in 2006. RIP creepy clown
My wife and I and my cousin and her husband have only been in LV one time. I believe it was in 1978 and we were booked to stay at the Trop. We arrived late in the evening and they had no rooms for us so they upgraded us in the new tower on a floor that wasn't finished yet but had a few rooms that were finished. We were the only ones on the floor. Sad to hear they are going to implode the place.
Rarely do we have a person agree to sign the trespass notice. It’s documented in Security reports and player club account. In my area the max time to 86 someone is two years. So this whole 8 years ago thing is baffling. I personally see people coming in despite being 86d still playing (not using their card) getting a handpay and we pay them and advise again they are 86 or give them a citation to meet us in court. She could have a player account in a different name (maiden/married) and as you said the facial recognition has not been available for that long. She knew she was 86d 8 years ago. The first time she returned to the property did she get an ok from security? That’s part of the 86 process- contact us before you come in. Despite all this, I think they’ll have to pay and she will be 86d again lol.
All great points!
It’s great to report gambling news because it does make your viewers smarter.
Always good to learn what goes on behind the scenes, too.
Neil Sean, with his vast Hollywood media experience is always telling his viewers how things really run in Hollywood.
You guys can do the same with your experience. It’s all about making viewers more aware of what is going on.
Great talk!
My opinion: first there are a few items we don't know the facts to.
But I believe the Casino lawyers are putting their heads together to figure out how this can go away quietly. I feel the Casino has holes in their facts.
If it goes to trial, I want to be on the jury!😅
And if it goes to trial, they need to broadcast it like the OJ trial. I want to watch it all!
Dave unfortunately, with yr incident u gave us the explanation of trespassing and the different wording and what it all means. So now we are applying yr info to this.
You guys are so interesting to listen to. You hv me glued to the videos. Thank you for all yr time and info u share.
Oh, the implosion. We all need to take the red eye and go. Make a party out of it. But if u do go, and I hear the excitement in Dave's voice, to hv the implosion on video and then share this wld be outrageous!😊
The riviera 2016 the frontier was demoed in 2007
My daughter stayed at the Mirage last week, many machines were already turned off.
My daughter and her boyfriend both got banned from southpoint casino for fighting in there they still go in there all the time and he even got a job there.😂but he was fired when he went to jail for domestic after a month working there
Even if it comes out that she knew she wasn't supposed to be there, if they allowed her to stay and lose, its still a bad look for the casino. As a local, there is no way I'm ever going to gamble at that property again. They're not the only casino in town. How many people have heard this story and are also going to do the same? They're gonna lose $120k in revenue just from people who see this as the casino looking for any way to screw the player. The casino is going to lose this whether by the court of public opinion and the revenue lost or through losing the actual legal battle. And in a worst case scenario, both. $120k is not a real amount to these properties. They should just write this off. Apologize to her, pay her, and try to save face in the public eye.
On the facial Id - look up China's efforts for that, I have seen a few articles talking about the capacity to track. It takes a bit of processing power to scan for people and if you have a large list of people to look for it gets expensive to do.
Great news session. Multiple trespass sagas to tune in for. Also sort of on topic (as I heard on another slot chanel) MGM properties removing/static progressives. How? When? Why? Can you guys discuss?
I enjoyed the show, i watch often, i liked when you guys did live play at New York New York!
Awesome! Thank you!
It would be really interesting to know more details like the player's card and everything else you listed. It would be nice to follow until the end and find out the outcomes.
That is insane!
I arrive August 2nd at 11 pm! So close!!!😱
Please do live stream of the Tropicana 🙌
We went to the Mirage on Tuesday about an hour before the drawings started. Not a single machine open. People looked like they had been camped out there for hours.
About what we expected
Regarding the progressive winnings that must be paid out in Mirage: Please note that this is the surcharge on the reset value. For example, if the grand is $10,500 and the reset value is $10,000, if someone wins the grand, Mirage only has to pay out $500 to the players when closing the casino.
That's correct - it's the amount over the base.
If you are a buddy of a buddy of a buddy, someone's got your number to be called out for a big chunk
of money. Or they can program something into a central server, probably by the player cards
zip code or something, so they can control who wins, to a certain extend. We were in Vegas
when they took down the Sands back in 1996, it was imploded.
Omg now I feel like some orange juice 😅😅 I wanna see it too
Great video! With the facial recognition technology casinos have it should be easy to determine how often she was inside.
Facial recognition hasn’t been around that long. So it may only go back a short time.
@@5877user It’s been around for decades. The issue in this case is how long has the casino used it and what are their retention policies for the data. Even if it’s only a few years they could determine her number and length of visits unless they are not retaining the data for very long.
I can’t believe the demo is set for October 2 because that’s the day I’m going to Vegas for the first time in years. Do you guys have any idea what time of the day it will be? I didn’t plan on getting to Vegas until the afternoon. I’ll be driving up from Orange County, California.
I’m curious where you heard the Trop implosion date has been set for October 2nd. I’ve been following this closely and haven’t seen any news regarding a date being set. Thank you!
Why would anybody self ban from a casino and then go to the same casino and gamble? It doesn't make sense.
Donald Duck and Winnie the Pooh walk into a casino with no pants on...
I would never go back to "_____" if I had been banned.
She was basically mocking them.
Case denied
💥 Hey, I will happen to be in Vega$ October 2nd 😮 Wonder what time the Trop will implode. A night ? 💥
I have a check-in date for the 2nd also. So I also want to know when they’ll be doing it.
Hopefully there isn't a real estate bust before they can build something like Boyd did with The Stardust where they closed it, imploded it and started to build Echelon Place when the market went belly up. They ended up selling off the land and some building materials for whatever they could get for it or risk going bankrupt (now Resorts World).
I was going to text you about the Mirage, thanks for covering. What is “playing” to get a prize? How often do you need to hit the button?
@@Luckygingerslots a few of the give aways will be hot seat drawings. there is no set time on an active player but a couple or few spins a minute should do it
Will you let us know when the auction will be?
If I were here lawyer, I'd seek trebling aka 3x the reward + legal fees for willful attempted fraud.
If they allowed her on property many times prior to the jackpot during the time she was apparently still trespassed, I think MGM will likely lose in court because much like trademark or copyrights if the owner allows transgressions over time, they can lose their trademark/copyrights or in this case the trespass would and should go invalid since it's MGM that is barring her from the property and not enforcing it until it costs them money.
Wonder if someone will livestream the demolition?
Can you explain what it means to be banned from a casino?
How long is the ban?
If it is a lifetime ban, can you go to another Casino within the state and play?
Do casinos have a central data site where they can see who is banned where and when?
Just wondering how that is different from a trespass.
Thanks m, guys.
When she was playing BJ did they keep her losing bets? Yes. So they can pay her the jackpot too. You can’t negative free roll people.
Agreed
that white paint lowers their electric bill on reduced heat absorbtion
It will be interesting to see if the casino was still sending her offers all this time or not, which they shouldn't have been doing if she was banned.
Right!
Good point if that's the case in my opinion she wins
Pan handling gets 8 year ban? Wow, I see those people in the casino all the time. That’s kind of weak. Bottom line, she won the hand and won the jackpot. If they were that hard up, they shouldn’t even let her in.
My thought exactly. I see people do this frequently as well. Have a hard time believing panhandling would’ve created a trespass for this length of time. Having said that…twelve visits over 8 years is not frequent at all. But she wasn’t caught? Hmmmm…If she was receiving and using offers then she was being very particular because I doubt she received just one offer a year.
Lots of holes in this case to be filled.
Dave, I'm fairly certain they were already going to trespass you when they asked you to put your bag away. They just wanted you to leave voluntarily so it was less likely you'd make a scene than if they had told you that you were trespassed while still inside. Much easier to deny someone entry rather than try to remove them from inside.
Yeah, but he complied and put his bag away and came back.
@@GambleSmart But did they let him in on the way back, or stop him before he entered?
The security guard told me that I was allowed to keep playing but could not film. When i came back and he told me i was trespassed even said He felt bad as he said I could come right back in.
@@GambleSmart like I said, I feel like they had already made the decision to trespass you, but wanted you to voluntarily leave and used the putting your bag away diversion to de-escalate any potential angwr that you might have, since they dont know how you might react.
My guess wooda been riveria
The information provided by both the casino (as much as we know) and this woman definitely doesn't add up. If she was trespassed, and is in The Book, then there's no way that they would be mailing her offers in the mail. My initial question when I first heard about this lawsuit is this: Does MGM have a rule that if someone is trespassed, then they can't win a jackpot at that location or in any of their casinos? Is it possible to lose player privileges like that? There's a lot of legalese that 99% of people don't read when we sign up for a player's card with a casino. It wouldn't surprise me if something like that is in there.
Otherwise, if she's been playing table games without using a player's card, I could see security not noticing her depending on if she changed how she looks (i.e. wore hats/wigs, changed her hairstyle, etc.). Card counters do that all the time and they don't get dinged by security until they have to hand over an ID too. It'll be interesting to see how this one plays out.
They could very well be mailing her offers and she could still be on that list. It doesn’t mean anything and I believe they sometimes have other companies do marketing for them. It’s difficult actually to even get off those mailing lists.
If the casino has a third party marketing firm sending out their promo material it wouldn't surprise me if they were using an old and/or non-audited list of player information. That would make a lot of sense.
I’ve been to that casino several times and they don’t card every single guest probably only ones that you look younger. I’m wondering what her age is and maybe she just kept going there and did not get carded.
Hey guys is Mirage still under MGM rewards?
obviously she knew and went back again but also she would have hit something else before by this time any 1200 hit so the casino knew about her being there before this hit 🤔
I watched the Trump Plaza get demoed in Atlantic City. That was amazing how perfect it came down. That's crazy news of the Miirage and MGM.
I don't think we have enough information to really have an opinion just yet.
Once all the facts come out then we can decide if they did the right thing or not.
Will they be selling any of there triple 7 mechanics???
Someone hits the Grand for over $80,000 on a cruise ship, once paid, the attendant opens the machine, Grand goes to 72,000. Attendant reopens the machine and now Grand goes to $50,000. Is that legal????????
Riviera??
Riveria
Thanks , i knew i was missing one.
I'm wondering if MGM was mishandling the money from the jackpot somehow.
What about the “SANDS”….?? (Demolition)
Late 1990’s while traveling via greyhound, I stopped in Vegas for a couple of days. I was trespassed from MGM all b/c I had a medical episode (heat exhaustion) in front of their lion entrance. I never went inside the casino nor did I bothered anyone outside. It was 105 degrees that day. Security saw me in distress by the lion head entrance and ask if I was okay, I replied no. EMS was summoned and they helped me to best they could. security told me that I was trespassed and to never come back. They assumed I was a vagrant b/c of the way I dressed and they didn’t want me on their property, which wasn’t the case. I was staying at golden gate casino along with $700 in cash in my pocket and a bus ticket to my destination back east. I was just site seeing the strip at that time. I was never asked to sign any paper, just a verbal trespass. It’s been 26 yrs since that incident and needless to say, I’ve been back to Vegas plenty of times since and I don’t bother stepping foot anywhere near MGM.
If they have no signed document, they have no legal recourse. The most they can do is trespass you again and this time fill out the paperwork. However, this happened in the 1990s and it is highly unlikely you would even be noticed.
Wow.
I don't patronize MGM casinos period. Rude employees and I just don't care for the vibe. I went to the one in Vegas, Detroit, and Maryland, and the atmosphere is not appealing to me.
A trespass means NOTHING unless it has been signed. The person must be informed and there needs to be PROOF they were informed.
But putting all this aside.....If they booked and settled even one bet form her, they forfeit any right to retroactively decide this bet has no action.
This casino has no case and their attempts to steal her money should be treated as THEFT.
Local casino has an old school 3 reel 5 line called Triple Triple diamond. What can you tell me about this odd machine?
High in volatility - Anytime you see "Triple Triple Diamond" or "Double Double Diamond", what it really is is 9x pay and 4x pay in disguise.
Ask Robin Leach!!!!!
Just have to wait to see who has the proof.
New Frontier was the last demo’d.
$127,000 seems like a meager amount for the casino to haggle over. It's monumental for her, though. And in 2015, the casino should have had facial recognition in place, in my opinion. It's been around a long time.
Even if it wasn’t around then, it’s probably around now and they clearly had her ID or information on file. 🤔
My local casino uses facial recognition and other things, so if your banned you pretty much do not have a chance Lol
Story about nonpayment is smelling fishy! 8 year ban or trespass- pretty long. Crazy about Mirage giving $$$, wish I could go. Dave call in sick to work & spend couple days there- I'll write u note.
If casinos required everyone to use their players card then it would prevent all of these trespass problems.
Forget Cocktails! More like COFFEE! COFFEE!
Drinking coffee is low track culture, along with smoking and driving EVs.
@@Xanzia1972drinking alcohol is low culture 😂
@@maghniasabri4060 that depends, I went to a subterranean wine cellar in Moldova years ago, and that wine was incredible as was the room.
I think the casinos need to stop those huge progressive jackpots.
Hey Guys i dont know who id believe but time will tell. But if she does have right to that jackpot even if she was banned and dont have proof then i see that its hers. Banning for years is crazy. I can understand 24 hrs to 6 months if she did a criminal act then proove it.
BE AWARE: of your surroundings too. I've had a homeless person follow me around. I won a jackpot. I gave him $10 and security escorted him out of the casino. Look around guys because people are watching you. I also had someone STEAL from me. I pressed charges to the full extdnt of the law and idc how petty to some it is. But my coat and car keys wasnt perty to me. I still remember her name. Anyways i found out it was her 5TH LARCENY in a building and they only gave her PROBATION and permanently banned her from the Detroit casino 🎰 and after court what did this woman DO she went to the casino where this incident occurred and was playing. Oh YES she did so i walked up to Security asked for the supervisor and explaiend what just happened in court pointed out Who she is and they escorted her out. Unbelievable. I will never forget her name or what she looks like. So please anybody reading this or at the casino playing keep your eyes and ears open.
@@kathleenziskie533
I was playing, security came up to me and asked me if some guy was bothering me, they’re watching! Sorry for your incident though. I’ve also asked for security to escort me to my room.
Women are given FAR lighter sentences in general. It is a gross and it is misandry.
Mark Chin....
I live in Detroit and it made local news here. She obtained an attorney. She was panhandling with her cousin and didnt know she was banned from the MGM Detroit casino. She argued that she has been playing the entire "9" years and this particular day was pkaying BJ and hit the progressive and they refused to pay her. She was unaware since she has been playing the entire 9 years and nobody from security has refused her entry. I can keep ev1 posted if i hear more. In my opinion she deserves to be paid and hopefully she does eventually gets paid her BJ progressive
We agree with you - The interesting thing though, is they did have her ID on file and were able to pull up the trespass. That makes us a littler curious about the details on the trespass.
They will probably Expense that amount & more in Legal fees. Plus the Bad press.
Lol oh golly gee.....
Golly, golly... Lol
Great show! I hope she makes them pay the jackpot plus attorneys fees plus pain and suffering
if she was trespassed, the casino has her info, the casino has a right not to pay out the jackpot, is it possible that she was under the radar for 8 years playing ? as in not getting ID at the door, not using a players card, until she won a handpay, where she is required to show ID, she got caught!!!,
Hypothetically, if she didn't use her player's card, what would make her decide on using it that day if that's the case.
The won a jackpot , regardless of played card they need to see her ID to validate she is of age and info for 1099
I was playing in HL, guy a couple machines away hits vp hand pay.. Attendants, after quite awhile didn’t pay him. I don’t know why, don’t listen to other people’s business. 🤷🏻♀️
If she is denied the $127,000, what happens to jackpot money. It has to be accounted for in payouts, given away in drawings or giveaways.
Tough to say, but yes, it still has to go back to the players. Since it was a table game jackpot, they might add it back into the pool.
This is an interesting story. It all depends if the casino has all the documents and if she signed it and knew how long she had been banned.
Right
You need to combine facial recognition software, cell phone GPS, and credit card transactions to get a really good positive ID.
Oh my goodness the crowds and germs will be outrageous 😮
Got that right!
Mask up and use hand sanitizer 😂😂
I think all those times she went in. They were ok taking her $ even though she was banned. But as soon as she got a handy? They didnt want to pay her? Casino are ok taking your $ but if they can find an anorexic reason not to
You guys are clueless. You have no idea if that trespassed woman even had a players card, any of the facts, or how the policy works. You literally speculate and pulled stuff out of thin air for nearly 15 minutes. I highly doubt she had a players card if she went in the casino once every 8 months playing blackjack. There is almost no way the casino could identify her, they don’t watch that closely. I’m sure there are countless people in casinos that are banned. Most aren’t discovered unless there is another issue and the person is ID’d. THEY are the one taking the risk by entering. The casinos do not ID every person that enters because there would be lines a mile long.
They just want to pretend as though they ARE an authority on the subject of slots and the casinos!!! And, of course, they ALWAYS side with the greedy casinos!!! And, these guys used to work with or for the casinos!!! So rude and nasty towards people who DON'T see the casino's greedy side of things!!! I tried having conversations!!! And, THEY'RE always, always right!!! We're ALL wrong!!! Always wrong!!! So, why even bother trying to have an intelligent and honest conversation with them?!!? It's probably NOT going to happen!!! We know who they're trying to protect!!!
Potowatomie in Wisconsin IDs everyone and lines aren’t that long
@ryanh1597 We unbanned you from our channel, and you instantly start insulting us again. Please be respectful - it's ok to disagree with us, that's why we asked what everyone thought. Why do you feel there is no way the casino could identify her?
Just came back from The Marti Gras in West Virginia. They id everyone and there were no lines.
Dang buddy……angry much?
The incident of the customer who was denied the jackpot is not going to be an easy win for the casino. I'm not sure how long casinos are required to maintain documents related to customer gambling activity. It might be 5 years. They may have destroyed that trespass order, if they had one.
Yup, we kinda expected you guys to protect and defend the greedy casinos!!! Again and again!!! Never really fails!!! You guys are unbelievable!!! SMDH
Did you even watch this at all? We sided with the player?
They sided with the player! What are you talking about?
@GambleSmart I watched the video, and no, you didn't!!! You always defend the greedy casinos!!! Even when you SAY that you defended the player!!! And, others thought you were obviously siding with the greedy casinos, or they wouldn't have made the same comments I made about it. And, since when did you start defending the players at the expense of attacking the casinos you guys work for?!!? That wouldn't be exactly profitable for you and your Channel that's there to PROMOTE the casinos!!! You guys are always talking about different casinos and tell us all the advantages of gambling at the different casinos!!! It's like a free advertisement or ad for the casinos!!! Same exact bullshit with the TH-cam influencers who do gambling videos on the daily!!! And, they seem to have unlimited amounts of money to gamble with!!! The casinos give them all the money they need to keep playing slots almost nonstop!!! And, you guys try to tell everyone that the casinos DON'T do that kind of stuff!!! Yeah, Okay, whatever ya WANT to believe!!! But, I don't actually think YOU believe that, yourselves!!! You know the truth!!! You know they are constantly getting more and more money from the casinos to gamble with. There's NO way that EVERY single person who does TH-cam videos of themselves playing slots has UNLIMITED amounts of money!!! But, yet, they ALL seem to have ENDLESS supplies of money, eventually. Maybe not when they first start up their TH-cam channel!!! That would be way too obvious!!! SMDH
@@GambleSmart And, if you DID actually side with the players once, it's only because you guys have NOT sided with the players at all. And, you've had a LOT of different people calling you out on it. NOT JUST ME!!! Don't even try to act like you guys have truth on YOUR side!!! You know better!!!
It sounds like you have some strong feelings about this topic, and I appreciate you sharing your perspective. I understand that discussions about casinos and gambling can be contentious, especially when it comes to transparency and fairness.
Let me clarify our position. Our channel aims to provide informative content about various aspects of gambling, including strategies, reviews of different casinos, and sometimes addressing controversies or player disputes. We strive to present a balanced view, acknowledging both player experiences and industry practices.
When it comes to defending either players or casinos, our goal is to be fair and objective. It's important to note that while we may discuss advantages of gambling at different casinos, this isn't necessarily promotion in the traditional sense. We aim to educate viewers on what different casinos offer so they can make informed decisions.
Regarding your concerns about influencers and their finances, it's true that some influencers may receive sponsorship or support from casinos, which can impact their ability to gamble. However, it's crucial to distinguish between individual influencers and our approach. We prioritize transparency and disclose any affiliations or sponsorships to maintain trust with our audience.
As for the perception that we always side with casinos, I assure you that our stance is based on the facts presented and the principles of fair play. We do recognize criticisms and feedback, including yours, and we're committed to continuously improving how we communicate our viewpoints.
Ultimately, our aim is to foster meaningful discussions and provide valuable insights into the world of gambling, helping viewers navigate this complex industry responsibly. We appreciate your feedback and will take it into account as we continue producing content that serves our audience's interests and concerns.