Not as hard as one might think. I had never done it before But after watching a few vids. And stopped being intimidated. With the proper tools Dropping a tranny isn’t that big a deal
@@soundwave802002 I've done it several times. It not too hard when you have a lift and trany jack but when you do it in your drive way or on the side of a dirt road in the dark, it sucks. It also depends on if it real wheel drive- those are easier also. A few bolt around the bell housing, mounting bolt and the driveshaft and it's out. But front wheel, sometimes its easier to pull the whole drive train including motor.
@@soundwave802002 bro u have no idea if you havnt actually done it. Watching videos and seeing exactly how to do it won’t mean it’s easy. For starters the transmission is heavy asfuc especially if it still has the tranny fluid inside. 2nd of all you have to dissemble multiple components before you think abt dropping the tranny. And most of the time these bolt are seized such as the drive shaft bolts. I guess you can say the easy part is disassembling every thing and dropping the tranny. The real hard part is putting everything back to place and at it’s respectable specs. I had trouble just tryna get the bell housing aligned and back into the engine, it’s not just a one easy push and bam. Every bolt has a specific torque and if you strip any bolts you’re fuked.
Great video. They don't make old school mechanics anymore. Most guys just want to scan and replace. You helped you me out after my car going to multiple garages. Keep up the good work!
I want to say I actually learned something from this video. I have been an automotive electronics tech for 15 years and I never seen this before. Helped me find a draw inside my instrument cluster that would have taken weeks to find without this trick. Thumbs up bro
great news, i too goto youtube. ha sometimes i i google my question and my video pops up from 5-6 years ago, then i remember. hahaha thanks for watching.
I replaced my torque converter due to a power loss. That's when I found the same thing you found, pinched 02 sensor wire. The codes disapeared but the truck still drives like crap.. this video was helpful.
I have worked on cars for many years but I have not quite yet figured out how to trace electrical problems down, thank you for this video, I have a 73 c30 Chevy truck with a slow drain on the battery, I will be trying this later in the week, again thank you!
Bro that's good old school troubleshooting hard to find nowadays been doing it for decades ,imagine doing that on an elevator that has 5000 + wires we do it everyday...Awesome work bro.
I've been wrenching for decades. But I still get impressed by persistent and well oriented work. Well done! I can't stress enough, how important it is to route the cables/harness properly. Recently I wasted a huge amount of time in a certain car. Because some "distracted soul" didn't route the cables properly and exchanged an AC cable/plug. By a not so far oil sensor cable and plug! In spite of the different colors, etc. Among other messy stuff in there! When I properly routed the cables and placed it on the correct supports and brackets/fixing points. Suddenly the overly stretched cable became evident! And the "bling" moment happened! Someone connect the plugs on the wrong places! Beside the AC not working, the oil light still came on at start up (different circuit). The cable was stretched and rubbing on the engine, but thankfully not for long enough to short it! Similar in this case if the harness had been properly routed. Probably the issue wouldn't have happened in the first place! ;-)
Thanks Thomas! Well done. I recently did the rear main seal and the exhaust manifold gaskets on my '02 BMW. I then got lean codes for all 4 Oxygen Sensors and Signal issues to the ECU. Turns out it was almost exactly the same issue. I must have pinched the harness when raising and lowering the engine and transmission. It actually cause a Transmission Failsafe Program (Limp Mode) making the car undriveable until I found it. I wish I had watched your video sooner. Keep up the good work and thanks again !
Man going through it right now with a Nissan Frontier. I’ve paid four different mechanics and none of them have fixed the problem. So I finally decided to take matters into my own hands… I’ve completely gutted the inside of the truck dash and all. The engine compartment is next! 😮I’m gonna find and fix the problem and that’s a promise! And also a big Thanks to you good sir. Without your knowledge/ guidance I never would’ve mustered up the courage to tackle on such a task. Thank you 🙏
@@anunentitledmotivatedmille7731 I discovered a faulty ignition switch. But the major culprit was a bad alternator plug. It would cause the truck to not charge. Therefore I was running off just battery.
I have low voltage in my Bank 2 downstream 02 sensor. I don’t know where to start. Does each sensor have a ground wire/cable that is bolted down on the CAT? Could it be a fuse to that specific sensor? It’s a 2008 Nissan Frontier SE V6 4.0L. Any advise would be appreciated.
@@davechambers5279 Disclaimer not a professional by any means lol. But I would, start at the plug and work my way back. Sometimes connectors go bad or become corroded. Test the end of the plug then move up a foot or so and test the wire itself. If the voltage differs, then the plug/ connector could be the issue.
Clear explanations and step by step tracing exact from P0135. Impressive and we'll done finding short circuit. Thank you so much it's helps with my same problem too.
Electrical issues are super confusing to me. Plus the way my brain is wired i could read and read. And my brain can’t grasp a lot of what’s going on. I watched countless videos of people doing amd trying to explain this method. But they all pull 2 fuses amd find the issue right away. I been pretty discouraged. Having pulled fuses once twice and again only to have the light come on. Then i find your video and my brain finally grasp the issue. I still haven’t found that damn short. But now i know. I just have to keep pulling what i can get to. Untill it goes out I’m confident I’m gonna find it tomorrow. I love my 94 S10 blazer 4.3L Vortec. But she has never ran great. But i managed to keep improving things. But your video really gave me confidence. And i already learned how to take the trannys out a couple years ago. Amd with the proper set up and tools. It’s easy Looking forward to watching your other videos. Keep up the good work brother!!
My goodness I admire your determination men, I have the same reading low voltage circuit on my B2 S2 Honda pilot 2008 but you gave me an Idea because when I check my sensor it is still working good 8.7 ohms in reading which is still good
Best jump scare I’ve had in a long time! 😂 I’m having circuit faults on 3 out of 4 sensors (which are new and ohm test fine). I’m hoping I find the problem before I have to resort to major surgery.
@@shawnalexander1158 I have not, unfortunately. I suspect it’s a tuning problem, but I’m hesitant to spend the $ only to have them tell me they can’t figure it out either. Car drives fine otherwise. Just a pesky CEL that I’d feel better having fixed.
Hey man, I don’t know if you read these comments. But I want to personally thank you for this technique you showed us for finding the short. As soon as I connected the probe test light to the disconnected positive terminal it faintly lit and then I heard a little erratic buzzing in and out noise, traced the very faint sound to the brake light switch. When I jiggled the switch the light went off, and as you would let it be for a min the light would come back. The switch is faulty. That explains my no cruise control and intermittent TCC lockup (seems like an rpm surge, tcc struggles to stay locked) But anyways thank you, this crap was driving me crazy. My truck is 98 C1500 (Silverado) ext cab. Fleetside 5.7l Vortec L31
I have the exact same issue and will be doing the exact same thing u did, changed all 4 o2 sensors and all have low voltage code, below a volt, thanks so much very easy to do but pain in the ass, hope my issue isn't dropping the trans, thanks man
I'm very glad I found your video. I had a problem with my throttle body having no 5v reference, already check the harness for throttle and the pcm connectors, no luck. I almost given up as I already concluded that it is the PCM is the culprit but you gave me hope in your video and with further looking on all the sensors I found out it is my a/c pressure switch wire is chewed by our dog. Right now I am on the way to fixing it, just needed to buy a new connector as our dog chewed it so badly. Cheers!!
Great video, explains clearly how to identify any electrical problem on your vehicle! Helped me find the problem on my 5.7 2011 Dodge Ram 2500. All four O2 sensors were pulling codes so I knew it had to be the ground or power. (Only thing that would affect all four sensors at the same time) Couldn't be the power or other functions of the truck would not work.... like fuel pump. (If I understand correctly.) Dealer did a bunch of work that didn't touch the problem. I decided that it had to be a ground and traced it out to an extremely frayed woven (shoe-lace) ground cable. Two thumbs up!
I know you posted this comment over a year ago, but do you remember where this frayed ground shoelace cable was located? Recently had my motor 5.7 rebuilt and ever since I got the truck back it shows the codes for low voltage on 02 sensors and when the truck gets up to running temp it will lock on 1,000 rpm once I hit a bump in the road. Any help on this will be great.
@@fishingdfdubb2807 The frayed shoe-lace ground was on the passanger side near the door and front wheel well. I later found a wire on top of the bell housing where the O2 wires crossed the housing that needed to be insulated. When my motor was rebuilt they did not protect the wire and it rubbed a bare spot and would contact and gave me fits to try and find.
Too cool! Thanks for inspiring me! I have a 04 4.7 Dakota put all bran new O2 sensors on it. My mechanic found the O2 sensor fuse gets no juice gonna look today where u said it was
Super good info! I recently hsd my vehicle dyno tuner and under load the front O2 sensor reading drops. The tuner said it is either a bad O2 sensor or bad ground. I think it would be a safe bet that it is in the ground. Plus the engine was just rebuilt. I just hope I don’t have to hunt my short down into the transmission harness.
Brilliant! THIS is very helpful. I had a problem w a bad ground wire for my O2S's and I just ran another ground wire directly to the battery negative. Seems to have solved it for me.
Long old school process, BUT! you found it man!! Cheers,, Have to pull alot of stuff anyway to repair wire harness! Great job, now service your trans while out..lol
Wow nice work and great video, this is the kind of video that shows exactly what happens when you're persistent and problem solve the crap out of an issue. Tip of the hat to you, man. I had all four O2 sensors binging low voltage every once in a while and since they were fairly new OEM sensors and it would go away after a few trips I knew they couldn't be the issue so I chalked it up to the CAI and lead foot. But then it came back and stayed so I was racking my brain as to where I should start on a 20 year old truck with 250k mile. Recently had my engine and trans lowered so a fresh oil pan could be installed (Chrysler/Dodge sure did a number when they used the 4.7 for so many different makes and models, solid performing engine but not every vehicle was thoughtfully designed around it.) I was worried I might be in the same situation as you and was not looking forward to dropping the trans and hunting though the wiring harness there. Already had the trans rebuilt by a mechanic that really knows their stuff. So I started with a visual check of the wiring I could see without removing anything. Then onto checking all the grounds, and bingo was his name-o. Found one braided ground strap hanging on by a thread that the engineers thought running it right over the left cat converter to the chassis was 'smart'. Ran a fresh ground wire one on that side from the chassis to a bolt on the engine. Then found a second braided ground strap going from the muffler/exhaust chassis that was again hanging on by a thread at the bolt on the muffler/exhaust, you couldn't tell by just looking at it but the second I grabbed on it just started to crumble. Ran a fresh one there too after cleaning the surfaces and muffler bolt for good measure. Reconnected the battery and after several trips to complete the trucks computer tests, it appears that this has remedied the issue. Guess I got lucky. Moral of the story, for anyone having issues with an engine light and all four o2 sensors showing low voltage or intermittent electrical issues... Check your battery connections and then check those grounds. Even if they are intact they may be on their way out. Some grounds may be hard to find on some vehicles, so research your vehicle and where all the grounds are supposed to be.
I wished you lived in my area to help me!😏 On my 2000 ford expedition 4.6L V8 Triton XLT I could possibly have an electrical or wiring issue going to and from the O2 Sensors. I did a scan and it showed that I have CAT (catalytic converter(s) and HTR (the heater circuit in the O2 Sensors) that are in the red and some codes concerning my O2 Sensors, such as PO135. As a female that's new to doing my own vehicle repairs, I would like some advice to help me please. I hope I don't have any electrical or wiring issues! I'm going to try and follow this video and some of your suggestions by starting with checking my battery connections and then check those grounds.(What are the grounds? And how do I check those?)
@@flowersfam3462 Well I'm no mechanic so you would be much better off getting help from a real one or at an actual trusted shop! I was trouble shooting a single code for low voltage at all 4 of my 02 sensors and my O2 sensors didn't even have 20k on them so I had a strong feeling it was a wiring issue or maybe a failing ECU that just need some attention and patience to diagnose. You're getting multiple codes though right? What codes are you getting?
@@flowersfam3462 Ouch, yea that's quite a few. It looks like they're pointing to Bank 2 of the exhaust (I believe thats the driver side of your Expedition). Starting at the lower end of the engine there are exhaust manifolds on both sides which exit out of the engine and hit an O2 sensor on both sides. Then to the Cats and I'm not sure on your Expedition but then there is another O2 sensor on both sides after the cats or just one after the exhaust tubes merge... Your issue may only be on the Bank 2 (driver) side of the exhaust so perhaps you should start there. Could be a wiring issue, bad connections at the wiring connectors, bad O2 sensors, or a cat that's clogged up or clogging up. Since you are trying to do whatever you can yourself before relying on taking it in to a shop... First before touching anything electrical always smart to disconnect the negative connection on the battery from the vehicle. Safety first and protects sensitive electrical components in the the vehicle from unnecessary damage. Be sure to wait until the vehicle is completely cold. Like after it's been sitting all night and the exhaust system is cold before tinkering around under the the vehicle. Check the wiring harness on the Bank 2 side for any signs of obvious damage, like tears or gouges, exposed wires, or any part of the wiring harness that is resting up against any sharp edges or against the exhaust pipes or cat. If you identify any damage make note of it so you can repair it properly or readdress that area later. If the damage is minor and the wiring is intact adding protective tape and wire loom is important. If any of the wiring is rubbing against something it shouldn't or too close to 'hot spots' like the exhaust pipe or cat, check the wiring again in those areas for damage, tape up and add wire loom for added protection and reposition the wiring so it is safely away from those 'hot spots'. This is something I did when checking through my wiring, I paid attention to possible problem areas and added extra protection. Zip-tied the wiring harness so it is away from any hazards. While you're under there and have your eyes looking around, I would recommend taking a look at the O2 connectors. The plastic connectors on the wiring coming from the O2 sensor. Cleaning up those connector plugs that connect the O2 sensors to the wiring harness would be wise. Frist spray the connectors down with an electrical cleaner (auto part store $10) to help remove any carbon, road grime and whatnot before disconnecting. Then gently disconnect one, should be a tab you can press down to release the lock and pull them apart. Quick tip: Be sure to use both hands and only pull the connectors apart holding the connectors and not the wiring. A little wiggle and finesse should release them. Then spray and gently clean the connectors to ensure a pins will provide a good electrical connection, but do it GENTLY you don't want to bend or break any of the metal pins in the connectors. You can use some qtips if needed. Allow to dry and what I like to do is add a smear of electrical grease (auto part store $10) to both sides (male and female connector) before reconnecting them. This helps with conductivity and also helps seal out exterior elements. Reconnect. Take a look at the O2 sensors while you are there. Note any severe wear or damage. If those are the original O2 sensors you may be replacing them if the issue still remains after servicing the wiring and connectors. Also, if they have been replaced someone could have used aftermarket O2 sensors and well sometimes they don't play nice with the vehicles ECU and/or fail sooner then OEM. Mine only plays nice with OEM so figured it was worth mentioning. After you've serviced the wiring and connectors make sure everything is plugged in properly, the wiring is where it should be and reconnect the negative connection at the battery. Now would be a good time to plug in your scanner and turn the key to On before starting it, clear the codes. Then you can fire it up and see if the codes come back and again write down each code. You never know you may get all the codes back, or only a few of them, or maybe even no codes (total score). If no codes come back, you're done. But if you do get codes again, depending on the codes that come back you may want to consider O2 replacements. Or as some do, simply switch the O2 sensors from one side to the other to see if the if the codes change and follow the bad O2 sensor(s). If they do you know for sure you need to replace 1 or 2 of the O2 sensors. If the codes stay the same as you had when starting this you could have a clogged up or clogging up cat on that Bank 2 side. The O2 sensors help the ECU regulate fuel going in the engine but they also monitor the 'Federally' mandated cats to make sure they are performing the task of reducing the emissions in the exhaust. Cats have a honeycomb or screen of metals inside that react with the exhaust that goes through. After decades of driving and carbon build up that 'screen' gets caked which leads to codes, performance loss and failure. If the O2 sensors are replaced and there are still codes popping up, you may have a clogged up cat and aside from attempting to run some cat cleaner through your fuel system you may need to have an exhaust shop check it. They basically remove the O2 sensors and plug up a machine that measures the flow. Usually you can spot a cat that's clogged or getting clogged by the radiant heat. A clogged cat will get really hot and if you have a temperature gun you can point it at each cat and measure the temp, if one is much hotter then that's your sign. A clogged cat may even glow red if it is getting too hot from being clogged. If the cat proves to be functioning and you are still getting codes you may have to take a look at the ECU. It's the vehicles computer that reads electrical data from all the sensors and then transmits the necessary electrical data to adjust and control different components. Like the O2 sensors, fuel injectors, etc. These can have issues on their own (car manufacturers like to put them in the engine bay where they are subjected to extreme heat and cool down fluctuations) or due to bad wiring or components causing unregulated electrical current into the ECU. If it ends up being the final fix, it's actually a pretty easy replacement. Just make sure you get a refurbished one from a reputable source and that it's preprogrammed to your VIN and mileage. It's a few screws, then plug and play. Again I am not a certified mechanic, just a guy who has seen his share of mechanical problems and isn't afraid to try fixing things (even if it requires a lot of reading, asking real mechanics and of course the dreaded trial & error). Find a trusted and honest mechanic though, nothing tops good hard working experience! I have a couple good mechanics with the equipment needed for the stuff I can't do myself. I will say if you are planning on servicing any vehicle you drive, scour the internet for a copy of the OEM service manual for that exact year make and model vehicle. Usually you can find a download link in one of your vehicles forums where other owners talk, ask questions, give advice, share their own two cents I guess you could say. I think the manual for mine is like 9,000 pages (and over the years I have probably read it all by now). It's basically a step by step service manual the OEM dealer mechanics use. While we may not have their fancy computer scanner to run a multitude of tests in the manual, it provides an abundance of steps to service parts, remove and replace, diagrams for every wire and where they connect to, specific codes and the exact steps the OEM manufacturer says to take to zero in on what is tripping a specific code or causing an issue. You may already be aware of some of the info I mentioned but I'm not sure what all you already know and hey knowledge is power so I tried to include anything that may help. So I do hope this helps! Good luck and good hunting!
Thnx this made me decide not to buy a new O2 sensor that did not work anymore because I was so stupid to clean all connectors and now I have a lot of problem with all the sensors and stuf thnx bro
Reach up and feel on top the bell housing for two wires. When you find them video them with your phone and look for bare spots. Tape them individually and then together if they have a bare spot. This is where my problem was. When my motor was rebuilt the wires were not supported and left to rub in the bell housing. It was a sob to find.
Ha!! Thanks! You gave me an idea 💡 see I would only pull the fuses the light never went out till this day! Now!! I know what to do!... Ps my truck hasn’t ran for five months now!
Thanks for the inspiration; I am searching down a heater circuit code using this method. I have to rule out the pcm yet, I think it’s in the harness, which guess what.. is right between the transmission and the cab of my truck lol!
Ive had an P0152 code ince i bought my 02 Chrysler Concorde 3.5 v6. Replaced sensor, and ecm. Only thing left is wite harnes and checking connections to and from sensor and ecm. There had to be a chaffed wire somewhere. I hope they can run over lay wires to and from to eliminate the failure. This has been nothing but a headache but the car is mint, floats and is a 1 owner with 70k on it. Any thoughts. I think youre onto something with this video.
I'm getting p0036 and p0136 codes in my 2013 sonata. Dealership said o2 sensors are testing good and are blaming the pcm. I noticed chew wires at one of the ignition coils harness. I will strip those wires back and see if that gets rid of the codes.
Wow that's so much work good you have found the problem, my question is toyota sienna 2004 code is p2238 02 sensor positive current control circuit low Bank 1 sensor 1 Is that bank 1 02 sensor located under intake beneath the the wipers ? Thank you and all the best 👌 👍
Savage! Hahaaa.. Great video dude right on👍 my first time ever subscribing someone's video. I don't even really know what that means but u deserved it buddy much appreciated!🤘😎
I have a p0102 on a 2009 2500 hd silverado I put an LS3 into. And the 5 volt signal voltage to the ground wire on the MAF harness measures 12 volts. But measures 5 volts to ground on the battery
Jesus Christ the labor cost you saved finding it yourself dropping the transmission I swear this would have ended up being a 10-15 hr labor job I swear.
Appreciate much your first video on finding shorts (a gem) But here, wait a sec..... you had to drop the transmission to find bad wire? Oh my..... This went from being a simple diy project to a non-starter. Glad you had the skill to make it work for you, but wow..... (kinda like telling the average joe how to change out the back three spark plugs on the dreaded Venture/Montana/Silhouette...... not for the feint of heart)
Holy Shit! Wow! Looks like I'm not the only person who's mouth dropped when you said you dropped the transmission. You should change your name to Columbo!
Excellent video, I have a mercedes ml320 it has a fuse box on the inside when I pulled the instrument cluster fuse the light went out. Now I have to figure out how to track it down from there. Thanks I'm no mechanic
It may be old-school, but you can still use it on modern vehicles and it’s actually cheaper in the long run because you’re not blowing the fuses out your meter
Did you use the scanner to fine a DTC in the SRS or ABS some times there is a code for battery with a low charge that makes the 02 sensors to fail. Usually it shows with a bank1 DTC keep in mind 02 sensors works sending links of ground.
Thank you so much lm having the same problem.and I'm going to do the same thing, when I jack up my car it starts up when I let it down it won't start.i think I have a lose wire.
Recently changed my flex pipe and now car is throwing p0032 h1 bank 1 circuit code . Put new sensor and same code . Thinking it’s most likely a wiring issue . Will have to take to the dealer
Hmm interesting I'm trying to track a similar issue and never accrued to me a short to ground might be the issue... for low no voltage... on O2. sensor... I will also say it's possible that you could just have poor or improperly placed ground wire... I had that ... Tho in my case I seem to have another issue as well as I still get the low to no voltage tho now it's only when car is warm/hot instead of all the time... Gonna try checking for a short to ground next...
Fuse: Okay, fine. Explain why the light did not go out when you pulled the fuses? The oxygen sensor circuit is fuse protected. Unfortunately, it appears you have a channel that does not answer comments.
Could you share the other video that you mention in the video that you have previous explain to when connecting and disconnecting the battery and performing testing?
Towards the end where u described about the wire and unplugging the trans, when u grab the wires, under your hand is two blue wires, is one cut or is it showing some copper, right under hand
2017 Chevy Silverado throws P0090, 91 and POOC8 and Engine power is reduce. This happens every time it snows and the roads are starting to melt then it goes away after every dries out. I’ve had the high pressure fuel pump replaced. I’m going to give your method a try. Any suggestions before I start?
My jaw dropped when he said, "I had to drop the transmission to find it." and so did my heart. I said unto myself, "Yeah, I'm not doing that."
Not as hard as one might think. I had never done it before But after watching a few vids. And stopped being intimidated. With the proper tools Dropping a tranny isn’t that big a deal
@@soundwave802002 I've done it several times. It not too hard when you have a lift and trany jack but when you do it in your drive way or on the side of a dirt road in the dark, it sucks. It also depends on if it real wheel drive- those are easier also. A few bolt around the bell housing, mounting bolt and the driveshaft and it's out. But front wheel, sometimes its easier to pull the whole drive train including motor.
Yeah for that kind if money that light is staying on
@@soundwave802002 bro u have no idea if you havnt actually done it. Watching videos and seeing exactly how to do it won’t mean it’s easy. For starters the transmission is heavy asfuc especially if it still has the tranny fluid inside. 2nd of all you have to dissemble multiple components before you think abt dropping the tranny. And most of the time these bolt are seized such as the drive shaft bolts. I guess you can say the easy part is disassembling every thing and dropping the tranny. The real hard part is putting everything back to place and at it’s respectable specs. I had trouble just tryna get the bell housing aligned and back into the engine, it’s not just a one easy push and bam. Every bolt has a specific torque and if you strip any bolts you’re fuked.
one of the wildest jump cuts I've ever experienced on a basic repair video
Great video. They don't make old school mechanics anymore. Most guys just want to scan and replace. You helped you me out after my car going to multiple garages. Keep up the good work!
A bow, a handshake and admiration. You are the man!
I want to say I actually learned something from this video. I have been an automotive electronics tech for 15 years and I never seen this before. Helped me find a draw inside my instrument cluster that would have taken weeks to find without this trick. Thumbs up bro
great news, i too goto youtube. ha sometimes i i google my question and my video pops up from 5-6 years ago, then i remember. hahaha thanks for watching.
What I learned here is that I spent $5000 for an idiot to replace my transmission. Now I’ll spend another grand to have his fix fixed.
You have bested a lot of men not willing to give up , my hat is off to you good sir
Bro went hitman mode on this . Respect
I replaced my torque converter due to a power loss. That's when I found the same thing you found, pinched 02 sensor wire. The codes disapeared but the truck still drives like crap.. this video was helpful.
I have worked on cars for many years but I have not quite yet figured out how to trace electrical problems down, thank you for this video, I have a 73 c30 Chevy truck with a slow drain on the battery, I will be trying this later in the week, again thank you!
What a process you went through... Yeah old school is old school...Thanks for the lesson...
Thank you for the video sir. After my grandpa passed I've been rebuilding his truck and I couldn't figure it out to save my life
Bro that's good old school troubleshooting hard to find nowadays been doing it for decades ,imagine doing that on an elevator that has 5000 + wires we do it everyday...Awesome work bro.
I've been wrenching for decades. But I still get impressed by persistent and well oriented work. Well done!
I can't stress enough, how important it is to route the cables/harness properly.
Recently I wasted a huge amount of time in a certain car. Because some "distracted soul" didn't route the cables properly and exchanged an AC cable/plug. By a not so far oil sensor cable and plug! In spite of the different colors, etc. Among other messy stuff in there!
When I properly routed the cables and placed it on the correct supports and brackets/fixing points. Suddenly the overly stretched cable became evident! And the "bling" moment happened!
Someone connect the plugs on the wrong places!
Beside the AC not working, the oil light still came on at start up (different circuit). The cable was stretched and rubbing on the engine, but thankfully not for long enough to short it!
Similar in this case if the harness had been properly routed. Probably the issue wouldn't have happened in the first place! ;-)
Thanks Thomas! Well done. I recently did the rear main seal and the exhaust manifold gaskets on my '02 BMW. I then got lean codes for all 4 Oxygen Sensors and Signal issues to the ECU. Turns out it was almost exactly the same issue. I must have pinched the harness when raising and lowering the engine and transmission. It actually cause a Transmission Failsafe Program (Limp Mode) making the car undriveable until I found it. I wish I had watched your video sooner. Keep up the good work and thanks again !
Man going through it right now with a Nissan Frontier. I’ve paid four different mechanics and none of them have fixed the problem. So I finally decided to take matters into my own hands… I’ve completely gutted the inside of the truck dash and all. The engine compartment is next! 😮I’m gonna find and fix the problem and that’s a promise!
And also a big Thanks to you good sir. Without your knowledge/ guidance I never would’ve mustered up the courage to tackle on such a task. Thank you 🙏
How did it go?
@@anunentitledmotivatedmille7731 I discovered a faulty ignition switch. But the major culprit was a bad alternator plug. It would cause the truck to not charge. Therefore I was running off just battery.
@@Esteban-MK64 that's awesome to hear you took care of the problem best feeling ever. You also acquired a lot more understanding.
I have low voltage in my Bank 2 downstream 02 sensor. I don’t know where to start. Does each sensor have a ground wire/cable that is bolted down on the CAT? Could it be a fuse to that specific sensor? It’s a 2008 Nissan Frontier SE V6 4.0L. Any advise would be appreciated.
@@davechambers5279 Disclaimer not a professional by any means lol. But I would, start at the plug and work my way back. Sometimes connectors go bad or become corroded. Test the end of the plug then move up a foot or so and test the wire itself. If the voltage differs, then the plug/ connector could be the issue.
GREAT JOB!!! Anybody that trouble shoots anything today is a real Mechanic... I liked and subscribed
Clear explanations and step by step tracing exact from P0135. Impressive and we'll done finding short circuit. Thank you so much it's helps with my same problem too.
Electrical issues are super confusing to me. Plus the way my brain is wired i could read and read. And my brain can’t grasp a lot of what’s going on. I watched countless videos of people doing amd trying to explain this method. But they all pull 2 fuses amd find the issue right away. I been pretty discouraged. Having pulled fuses once twice and again only to have the light come on. Then i find your video and my brain finally grasp the issue. I still haven’t found that damn short. But now i know. I just have to keep pulling what i can get to. Untill it goes out I’m confident I’m gonna find it tomorrow. I love my 94 S10 blazer 4.3L Vortec. But she has never ran great. But i managed to keep improving things. But your video really gave me confidence. And i already learned how to take the trannys out a couple years ago. Amd with the proper set up and tools. It’s easy Looking forward to watching your other videos. Keep up the good work brother!!
My goodness I admire your determination men, I have the same reading low voltage circuit on my B2 S2 Honda pilot 2008 but you gave me an Idea because when I check my sensor it is still working good 8.7 ohms in reading which is still good
This is one of the better videos I've seen on youtube. Very concise, and very explanatory. Thanks!
Hell of a video....probably the best mechanic video I have seen on FoolTube. Thanks!
Best jump scare I’ve had in a long time! 😂 I’m having circuit faults on 3 out of 4 sensors (which are new and ohm test fine). I’m hoping I find the problem before I have to resort to major surgery.
hahaha thanks for watching
Did u find your problem?
@@shawnalexander1158 I have not, unfortunately. I suspect it’s a tuning problem, but I’m hesitant to spend the $ only to have them tell me they can’t figure it out either. Car drives fine otherwise. Just a pesky CEL that I’d feel better having fixed.
Hey man, I don’t know if you read these comments. But I want to personally thank you for this technique you showed us for finding the short. As soon as I connected the probe test light to the disconnected positive terminal it faintly lit and then I heard a little erratic buzzing in and out noise, traced the very faint sound to the brake light switch. When I jiggled the switch the light went off, and as you would let it be for a min the light would come back. The switch is faulty. That explains my no cruise control and intermittent TCC lockup (seems like an rpm surge, tcc struggles to stay locked)
But anyways thank you, this crap was driving me crazy. My truck is 98 C1500 (Silverado) ext cab. Fleetside 5.7l Vortec L31
What codes did you have
I have the exact same issue and will be doing the exact same thing u did, changed all 4 o2 sensors and all have low voltage code, below a volt, thanks so much very easy to do but pain in the ass, hope my issue isn't dropping the trans, thanks man
One of the best troubleshooting videos I've ever seen. Good job!
After watching this video, I will work on being a more patient person for my New Year's Resolution. Thank you and have a good one. Peace
I second that! This video has redefined my perception of patience. Ty:)
Aaa
Take care folks. I hope y'all are doing well!
😎✌️
This video has elevated my consciousness to a higher level allowing me to manifest solid matter at will.
I'm very glad I found your video. I had a problem with my throttle body having no 5v reference, already check the harness for throttle and the pcm connectors, no luck. I almost given up as I already concluded that it is the PCM is the culprit but you gave me hope in your video and with further looking on all the sensors I found out it is my a/c pressure switch wire is chewed by our dog. Right now I am on the way to fixing it, just needed to buy a new connector as our dog chewed it so badly. Cheers!!
Great video, explains clearly how to identify any electrical problem on your vehicle! Helped me find the problem on my 5.7 2011 Dodge Ram 2500. All four O2 sensors were pulling codes so I knew it had to be the ground or power. (Only thing that would affect all four sensors at the same time) Couldn't be the power or other functions of the truck would not work.... like fuel pump. (If I understand correctly.) Dealer did a bunch of work that didn't touch the problem. I decided that it had to be a ground and traced it out to an extremely frayed woven (shoe-lace) ground cable. Two thumbs up!
I know you posted this comment over a year ago, but do you remember where this frayed ground shoelace cable was located? Recently had my motor 5.7 rebuilt and ever since I got the truck back it shows the codes for low voltage on 02 sensors and when the truck gets up to running temp it will lock on 1,000 rpm once I hit a bump in the road. Any help on this will be great.
@@fishingdfdubb2807 The frayed shoe-lace ground was on the passanger side near the door and front wheel well. I later found a wire on top of the bell housing where the O2 wires crossed the housing that needed to be insulated. When my motor was rebuilt they did not protect the wire and it rubbed a bare spot and would contact and gave me fits to try and find.
A lot of work bro…but I’m glad you got it
Too cool! Thanks for inspiring me! I have a 04 4.7 Dakota put all bran new O2 sensors on it. My mechanic found the O2 sensor fuse gets no juice gonna look today where u said it was
My goodness i admire your determination. Great video
Genius
explained better than anyone else thank you
Wow what a bastard to find. Great job man
Super good info! I recently hsd my vehicle dyno tuner and under load the front O2 sensor reading drops. The tuner said it is either a bad O2 sensor or bad ground. I think it would be a safe bet that it is in the ground. Plus the engine was just rebuilt. I just hope I don’t have to hunt my short down into the transmission harness.
Brilliant! THIS is very helpful. I had a problem w a bad ground wire for my O2S's and I just ran another ground wire directly to the battery negative. Seems to have solved it for me.
You were RELENTLESS!!! Nice job!
Awesome video dude. I’m in the process of playing whackamole hunting the ghost in my 88 Chevy K1500. I’m at the same point. Tracing wires.
Really good video. Very informative and at a pace that u can follow without pulling ur hair out!! Thanx!!!!!
I feel the same way Latch felt, dropping the transmission is imposable job for me but yeah i have a bad wire some where. Awesome video!!
Holy COWS! I was desperately looking for a solution for my infuriating p0102 silverado code. You are a badger! Great tenacity and awesome effort!
SUBSTANTIAL Sir Thomas Brian
Thank you 👍
God bless you and all your family around you Sir Thomas Brian
From Nick Ayivor from London England UK 🇬🇧
I was going to say this guy must really like that truck
Long old school process, BUT! you found it man!! Cheers,, Have to pull alot of stuff anyway to repair wire harness! Great job, now service your trans while out..lol
You have my respect. God lord I know it’s not easy to get something like that done
Thank you for the info buddy, I was verry pleased to see the light bulb went off finaly at the end of the video
Wow nice work and great video, this is the kind of video that shows exactly what happens when you're persistent and problem solve the crap out of an issue. Tip of the hat to you, man.
I had all four O2 sensors binging low voltage every once in a while and since they were fairly new OEM sensors and it would go away after a few trips I knew they couldn't be the issue so I chalked it up to the CAI and lead foot. But then it came back and stayed so I was racking my brain as to where I should start on a 20 year old truck with 250k mile. Recently had my engine and trans lowered so a fresh oil pan could be installed (Chrysler/Dodge sure did a number when they used the 4.7 for so many different makes and models, solid performing engine but not every vehicle was thoughtfully designed around it.) I was worried I might be in the same situation as you and was not looking forward to dropping the trans and hunting though the wiring harness there. Already had the trans rebuilt by a mechanic that really knows their stuff. So I started with a visual check of the wiring I could see without removing anything. Then onto checking all the grounds, and bingo was his name-o. Found one braided ground strap hanging on by a thread that the engineers thought running it right over the left cat converter to the chassis was 'smart'. Ran a fresh ground wire one on that side from the chassis to a bolt on the engine. Then found a second braided ground strap going from the muffler/exhaust chassis that was again hanging on by a thread at the bolt on the muffler/exhaust, you couldn't tell by just looking at it but the second I grabbed on it just started to crumble. Ran a fresh one there too after cleaning the surfaces and muffler bolt for good measure. Reconnected the battery and after several trips to complete the trucks computer tests, it appears that this has remedied the issue. Guess I got lucky.
Moral of the story, for anyone having issues with an engine light and all four o2 sensors showing low voltage or intermittent electrical issues... Check your battery connections and then check those grounds. Even if they are intact they may be on their way out. Some grounds may be hard to find on some vehicles, so research your vehicle and where all the grounds are supposed to be.
I wished you lived in my area to help me!😏
On my 2000 ford expedition 4.6L V8 Triton XLT I could possibly have an electrical or wiring issue going to and from the O2 Sensors.
I did a scan and it showed that I have CAT (catalytic converter(s) and HTR (the heater circuit in the O2 Sensors) that are in the red and some codes concerning my O2 Sensors, such as PO135.
As a female that's new to doing my own vehicle repairs, I would like some advice to help me please.
I hope I don't have any electrical or wiring issues!
I'm going to try and follow this video and some of your suggestions by starting with checking my battery connections and then check those grounds.(What are the grounds? And how do I check those?)
@@flowersfam3462 Well I'm no mechanic so you would be much better off getting help from a real one or at an actual trusted shop!
I was trouble shooting a single code for low voltage at all 4 of my 02 sensors and my O2 sensors didn't even have 20k on them so I had a strong feeling it was a wiring issue or maybe a failing ECU that just need some attention and patience to diagnose.
You're getting multiple codes though right? What codes are you getting?
@@porterfx Yes, I'm getting multiple codes,
Code P1151,
Code PO156,
Code PO161,
Code PO155,
Code PO141, and
Code PO135
@@porterfx Yes, I'm getting multiple codes,
Code PO156,
Code PO161,
Code PO155,
Code PO141, and
Code PO135
@@flowersfam3462 Ouch, yea that's quite a few. It looks like they're pointing to Bank 2 of the exhaust (I believe thats the driver side of your Expedition). Starting at the lower end of the engine there are exhaust manifolds on both sides which exit out of the engine and hit an O2 sensor on both sides. Then to the Cats and I'm not sure on your Expedition but then there is another O2 sensor on both sides after the cats or just one after the exhaust tubes merge... Your issue may only be on the Bank 2 (driver) side of the exhaust so perhaps you should start there.
Could be a wiring issue, bad connections at the wiring connectors, bad O2 sensors, or a cat that's clogged up or clogging up.
Since you are trying to do whatever you can yourself before relying on taking it in to a shop...
First before touching anything electrical always smart to disconnect the negative connection on the battery from the vehicle. Safety first and protects sensitive electrical components in the the vehicle from unnecessary damage. Be sure to wait until the vehicle is completely cold. Like after it's been sitting all night and the exhaust system is cold before tinkering around under the the vehicle.
Check the wiring harness on the Bank 2 side for any signs of obvious damage, like tears or gouges, exposed wires, or any part of the wiring harness that is resting up against any sharp edges or against the exhaust pipes or cat. If you identify any damage make note of it so you can repair it properly or readdress that area later. If the damage is minor and the wiring is intact adding protective tape and wire loom is important. If any of the wiring is rubbing against something it shouldn't or too close to 'hot spots' like the exhaust pipe or cat, check the wiring again in those areas for damage, tape up and add wire loom for added protection and reposition the wiring so it is safely away from those 'hot spots'. This is something I did when checking through my wiring, I paid attention to possible problem areas and added extra protection. Zip-tied the wiring harness so it is away from any hazards.
While you're under there and have your eyes looking around, I would recommend taking a look at the O2 connectors. The plastic connectors on the wiring coming from the O2 sensor. Cleaning up those connector plugs that connect the O2 sensors to the wiring harness would be wise. Frist spray the connectors down with an electrical cleaner (auto part store $10) to help remove any carbon, road grime and whatnot before disconnecting. Then gently disconnect one, should be a tab you can press down to release the lock and pull them apart. Quick tip: Be sure to use both hands and only pull the connectors apart holding the connectors and not the wiring. A little wiggle and finesse should release them. Then spray and gently clean the connectors to ensure a pins will provide a good electrical connection, but do it GENTLY you don't want to bend or break any of the metal pins in the connectors. You can use some qtips if needed. Allow to dry and what I like to do is add a smear of electrical grease (auto part store $10) to both sides (male and female connector) before reconnecting them. This helps with conductivity and also helps seal out exterior elements. Reconnect.
Take a look at the O2 sensors while you are there. Note any severe wear or damage. If those are the original O2 sensors you may be replacing them if the issue still remains after servicing the wiring and connectors. Also, if they have been replaced someone could have used aftermarket O2 sensors and well sometimes they don't play nice with the vehicles ECU and/or fail sooner then OEM. Mine only plays nice with OEM so figured it was worth mentioning.
After you've serviced the wiring and connectors make sure everything is plugged in properly, the wiring is where it should be and reconnect the negative connection at the battery. Now would be a good time to plug in your scanner and turn the key to On before starting it, clear the codes. Then you can fire it up and see if the codes come back and again write down each code. You never know you may get all the codes back, or only a few of them, or maybe even no codes (total score).
If no codes come back, you're done.
But if you do get codes again, depending on the codes that come back you may want to consider O2 replacements. Or as some do, simply switch the O2 sensors from one side to the other to see if the if the codes change and follow the bad O2 sensor(s). If they do you know for sure you need to replace 1 or 2 of the O2 sensors. If the codes stay the same as you had when starting this you could have a clogged up or clogging up cat on that Bank 2 side. The O2 sensors help the ECU regulate fuel going in the engine but they also monitor the 'Federally' mandated cats to make sure they are performing the task of reducing the emissions in the exhaust. Cats have a honeycomb or screen of metals inside that react with the exhaust that goes through. After decades of driving and carbon build up that 'screen' gets caked which leads to codes, performance loss and failure.
If the O2 sensors are replaced and there are still codes popping up, you may have a clogged up cat and aside from attempting to run some cat cleaner through your fuel system you may need to have an exhaust shop check it. They basically remove the O2 sensors and plug up a machine that measures the flow. Usually you can spot a cat that's clogged or getting clogged by the radiant heat. A clogged cat will get really hot and if you have a temperature gun you can point it at each cat and measure the temp, if one is much hotter then that's your sign. A clogged cat may even glow red if it is getting too hot from being clogged.
If the cat proves to be functioning and you are still getting codes you may have to take a look at the ECU. It's the vehicles computer that reads electrical data from all the sensors and then transmits the necessary electrical data to adjust and control different components. Like the O2 sensors, fuel injectors, etc. These can have issues on their own (car manufacturers like to put them in the engine bay where they are subjected to extreme heat and cool down fluctuations) or due to bad wiring or components causing unregulated electrical current into the ECU. If it ends up being the final fix, it's actually a pretty easy replacement. Just make sure you get a refurbished one from a reputable source and that it's preprogrammed to your VIN and mileage. It's a few screws, then plug and play.
Again I am not a certified mechanic, just a guy who has seen his share of mechanical problems and isn't afraid to try fixing things (even if it requires a lot of reading, asking real mechanics and of course the dreaded trial & error). Find a trusted and honest mechanic though, nothing tops good hard working experience! I have a couple good mechanics with the equipment needed for the stuff I can't do myself.
I will say if you are planning on servicing any vehicle you drive, scour the internet for a copy of the OEM service manual for that exact year make and model vehicle. Usually you can find a download link in one of your vehicles forums where other owners talk, ask questions, give advice, share their own two cents I guess you could say. I think the manual for mine is like 9,000 pages (and over the years I have probably read it all by now). It's basically a step by step service manual the OEM dealer mechanics use. While we may not have their fancy computer scanner to run a multitude of tests in the manual, it provides an abundance of steps to service parts, remove and replace, diagrams for every wire and where they connect to, specific codes and the exact steps the OEM manufacturer says to take to zero in on what is tripping a specific code or causing an issue.
You may already be aware of some of the info I mentioned but I'm not sure what all you already know and hey knowledge is power so I tried to include anything that may help. So I do hope this helps!
Good luck and good hunting!
Thnx this made me decide not to buy a new O2 sensor that did not work anymore because I was so stupid to clean all connectors and now I have a lot of problem with all the sensors and stuf thnx bro
"We're gonna get this bad boy.. alright!! So I'm up underneath the vehicle"
Dammit!! Seriously? 😂 I want you as my mechanic.. it made my day
This is a great video. Very explanatory. And easy to follow. Good job man. Keep it up.
Wow my hats off to you sir. Great video. Thank you for sharing your knowledge.
Thats escalated quickly at the end 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Reach up and feel on top the bell housing for two wires. When you find them video them with your phone and look for bare spots. Tape them individually and then together if they have a bare spot. This is where my problem was. When my motor was rebuilt the wires were not supported and left to rub in the bell housing. It was a sob to find.
Omg. Wow.. Very good video!!! Def will be doing a great down and tracing this weekend in my car to find my issues
Kick ass I have been searching for a short like this for a year. I'm going to try this approach I'll let you know if I find it .
I hope you looked closer at the wires in the harness under the transmission cause I saw about 2 or 3 spots where the bare wire was exposed .
Wow Thomas you did very good job tahnks we learned every day thanks
Ha!! Thanks! You gave me an idea 💡 see I would only pull the fuses the light never went out till this day! Now!! I know what to do!... Ps my truck hasn’t ran for five months now!
waaaoooooo, am short of words. A great job
Amazing work and troubleshooting.
Thanks for the inspiration; I am searching down a heater circuit code using this method. I have to rule out the pcm yet, I think it’s in the harness, which guess what.. is right between the transmission and the cab of my truck lol!
Ive had an P0152 code ince i bought my 02 Chrysler Concorde 3.5 v6. Replaced sensor, and ecm. Only thing left is wite harnes and checking connections to and from sensor and ecm. There had to be a chaffed wire somewhere. I hope they can run over lay wires to and from to eliminate the failure. This has been nothing but a headache but the car is mint, floats and is a 1 owner with 70k on it. Any thoughts. I think youre onto something with this video.
I'm getting p0036 and p0136 codes in my 2013 sonata. Dealership said o2 sensors are testing good and are blaming the pcm. I noticed chew wires at one of the ignition coils harness. I will strip those wires back and see if that gets rid of the codes.
Great job. That is a lot of work.
Wow that's so much work good you have found the problem, my question is toyota sienna 2004 code is p2238 02 sensor positive current control circuit low Bank 1 sensor 1
Is that bank 1 02 sensor located under intake beneath the the wipers ?
Thank you and all the best 👌 👍
Thank you very well put together video explanation how to find a parasite
Nice work man. Great how to video. Love you systematic approach.
Thanks for the perfect video & explanation, take care blessings.🤗
Thank you, Thank you, Thank you! Sometimes old skool works best! Thank you!!!!!!!
Savage! Hahaaa.. Great video dude right on👍 my first time ever subscribing someone's video. I don't even really know what that means but u deserved it buddy much appreciated!🤘😎
I have a p0102 on a 2009 2500 hd silverado I put an LS3 into. And the 5 volt signal voltage to the ground wire on the MAF harness measures 12 volts. But measures 5 volts to ground on the battery
Very helpful
Insane
Now I can go forward finding my problem
Thank you
You're the best !
Two Thumbs Up !
This was a super cool video, thanks sir.
Jesus Christ the labor cost you saved finding it yourself dropping the transmission I swear this would have ended up being a 10-15 hr labor job I swear.
Appreciate much your first video on finding shorts (a gem) But here, wait a sec..... you had to drop the transmission to find bad wire? Oh my..... This went from being a simple diy project to a non-starter. Glad you had the skill to make it work for you, but wow..... (kinda like telling the average joe how to change out the back three spark plugs on the dreaded Venture/Montana/Silhouette...... not for the feint of heart)
ps, still, learned much here from you, yet again. thanks.
Holy Shit! Wow! Looks like I'm not the only person who's mouth dropped when you said you dropped the transmission. You should change your name to Columbo!
Great video very informative and to the point thank you sir👍👍
Excellent video, I have a mercedes ml320 it has a fuse box on the inside when I pulled the instrument cluster fuse the light went out. Now I have to figure out how to track it down from there. Thanks I'm no mechanic
It may be old-school, but you can still use it on modern vehicles and it’s actually cheaper in the long run because you’re not blowing the fuses out your meter
Impressive thanks sharing the tips extremely helpful
Perfect Please post one on tracking down pcm input signals and shorts, Like "Begin Here". Thx
You ARE THE MAN!
Hats off to you, good job 👏
Did you use the scanner to fine a DTC in the SRS or ABS some times there is a code for battery with a low charge that makes the 02 sensors to fail. Usually it shows with a bank1 DTC keep in mind 02 sensors works sending links of ground.
Thank you so much lm having the same problem.and I'm going to do the same thing, when I jack up my car it starts up when I let it down it won't start.i think I have a lose wire.
Ok. U used a light instead of an ammeter to find parasitic draw. Thanks for the video.
Recently changed my flex pipe and now car is throwing p0032 h1 bank 1 circuit code . Put new sensor and same code . Thinking it’s most likely a wiring issue . Will have to take to the dealer
Oh my god u are freaking badass!:)) TY.
Best video I ever seen! 😂 I can’t stop laughing. Welp the trans us out. 👍
Wow! Awesome job!
Great job bro
Hmm interesting I'm trying to track a similar issue and never accrued to me a short to ground might be the issue... for low no voltage... on O2. sensor...
I will also say it's possible that you could just have poor or improperly placed ground wire... I had that ...
Tho in my case I seem to have another issue as well as I still get the low to no voltage tho now it's only when car is warm/hot instead of all the time...
Gonna try checking for a short to ground next...
Thanks....great find
That's amazing man !!!
JUST AWESOME EXPLANATIONS
Liking and subscribing for purely the tenacity involved
in chasing this one down. And I don't subscribe to much, For the record
thanks for watching!
Fuse: Okay, fine. Explain why the light did not go out when you pulled the fuses? The oxygen sensor circuit is fuse protected. Unfortunately, it appears you have a channel that does not answer comments.
Could you share the other video that you mention in the video that you have previous explain to when connecting and disconnecting the battery and performing testing?
Damn....big job ....all for an exposed wire.
Towards the end where u described about the wire and unplugging the trans, when u grab the wires, under your hand is two blue wires, is one cut or is it showing some copper, right under hand
2017 Chevy Silverado throws P0090, 91 and POOC8 and Engine power is reduce. This happens every time it snows and the roads are starting to melt then it goes away after every dries out. I’ve had the high pressure fuel pump replaced. I’m going to give your method a try. Any suggestions before I start?