The dashboards of the Renault 25 and Citroen XM Series I were by far the most beautiful and spacey cockpits. Today's cars are simply windows with displays.
Used to drive an 'ordinary' 25 estate. Gorgeous looking car , effortless to drive , massive capacity. Got a 240 now , can't imagine there's many 25s left in UK.
Most of the Bosch equipped engines I worked with in the mid 80s had the IAC idle valve which operates by signal frequency when the throttle itself is fully close. There is no "idle screw" but a throttle stop screw with locknut. The base set-up was to back off the throttle stop screw until the throttle plate "bottoms" in the throat then screw the stop screw just enough for the plate to stop before binding. Then adjust the throttle position switch using a voltmeter so you can see when it has returned and signals the IAC valve to maintain idle. Some models had a wire that could be grounded to take the IAC out of the circuit to set basic idle.
With the IAC hose clamped off, the engine should normally stall at idle, but I think that someone has adjusted the throttle stop to allow the engine to idle, and that is causing the jerking on overrun because the engine is getting too much air.
Its not completely clamped of.. some air can still pass... its a matter of setting the clamp just right! But yes.. its will probably make it run slightly lean... not sure how much it can detect and alter the fuel trims..
@@SeasideGarage I didn't explain well. When the IAC is working correctly, it shuts off completely when the overrun fuel cutoff operates, so the operation of the fuel cutoff is smooth. But with a fixed idle air supply, the operation of the fuel cutoff will cause jerking.
Hi, Please do NOT TRY TO "ADJUST" the throttle position potentiometer on the throttlebody!! This can only be done with the original diagnostic tool, the XR25, and has to be done using the right protocol in degrees. I forgot the exact protocol, it's too long ago. Normally there is also no adjustment of that potentiometer needed! Ever! Things you should check: If the "flap" inside the idle controlvalve spins freely with no mechanical resistance. When you roll the idle controlvalve left/right/left/right in a fast rolling movement between both your hands holding it, you should be able to hear the flap touching its endstops. If not, clean a lubricate as best as you can. A had to do this every 50.000km on my V6. Sometimes when the valve has been stuck for a very long time, it's possible the control signal from the ecu is not there anymore. In that ecu, there is a small poweramp ic mounted against a coolingplate which can burn out. Most of the tine this is easy to spot, because it then explodes, and you see a hole in that is, which looks like a poweramp ic from a car stereo from the 80ties. TDA2004. This scenario i have seen sometimes happen in a ecu from a standard V6. I imagine the V6 turbo has a similair arrangment. Suddenly i remember something important: Under the intake there are 6 small rubber "boots" which connect the intake with the engine. Big chance they are as hard as a rock, causing a airleak and high idle. I had to replace them on my car for also a fast and unstable idle... Hope this helps
Great input! I MIGHT touch the TPS because I like to live my life on the edge.... but Ill be sure to mark the exact position before hand! Could be nice with a XR25! Thanks for this comment!
@@SeasideGarage If it's not thouched? Please withstand the urdge to do so. It's very sensitive! Better to search for the actual real cause. Vacuümleak most likely. Good luck.
New video coming soon.... but you very correct sir! I DID fiddle with the TPP but made sure to put it back the same way... the problem with it was that I did not pick up on anything.. but with a clean it started working... probably sod on the coal strip... But the conducter thing in the ecu is burnt also!... its been like this since 2017 so no wonder.... hope to find the correct poweramp thingie so I can solder that in... :) Anyway... huge thanks!
@@SeasideGarage I believe someone tried a TDA2004 as a replacement. Please also check if circuit board traces are not burnt. Before remove the burnt part please reflow the old solder with new, so she can be extracted easy. Use solder wick to remove the old solder, or off course a desoldering station... Good luck M8.
Are you sure the TPS is a sensor (potensiometer) and not just a switch? On the 80's cars I have worked on they did just have switch(es). Some just an idleswitch and some had idle and full throttle switches.
We had Renault Alliance in America in 1970s to 1980s disaster. Perhaps American roads usagage different than Europe. But old Volvos held up excellent here . Love this channel 👍 A danke
Next stage in this speaking car thing is my Citroën C6, but there you can speak WITH the car, by touching a button on the viper handle the car says "j'écoute" (I'm listening) and you can tell it to start things in french. Wonderful 🥰 I've never changed the language in the infotainment system cause I'm french speaking but I suppose there's a wide range of languages but my native Swedish. Wich is totally unnecessary 😅 By the way, that Renault is pretty amazing for it's age. Good luck with it 👍😊
@@SeasideGarage I've had that C6 for over 10 years, but today I really miss my XM wagons, way more solid cars honestly. The 4X4 is coming together slowly, I'm almost done with the rear subframe now, as soon as the rear body is cleaned and rust protected the subframe goes back in. 😊
I just checked the wiring diagram for a ´91 model 25 the speech synthesizer is connected to: Low coolant, Pressure switch(oil?), Handbrake switch, Drivers door, Passenger door, Bonnet switch (2x LH+RH), Fuel tank sender switch, Thermal switch, LH rear light, RH rear light, Filament failure unit, Left rear door, Right rear door, Luggage compartment switch, Alternator. I don´t believe there are any difference in the older models. The filament failure unit monitor sidelights, numberplate lights and stoplights
I had the same idle valve problem with my v6 25, the new valve i bought did not work properly so I dismantled the original and cleaned it that fixed the high idle.
I have never owned a Renault but had a lot of Merc's. Right now I own several XM's and a MB W140. How would you say the R25 compares to your XM? Of course XM's can vary a lot due to version and condition of the suspension components. But I wonder in general because Seaside is currently making me a bit of a Renault fan.
@@michaelheimbrand5424 It's difficult to compare really. But I would say, that R25 is anyway lounched at 1984-, and XM 1989-, so XM feels more modern car on that way. Both are fantastic touring cars, and we have used both of those at Europe vacation trips. Both are offering great comfort, and are relaxing to drive. For longer trip I would choose XM, because suspension is really fantastic. We had R25 (2.0) automatic three years, and it was very realible and easy to maintain. My friend had R25 (2.2) at the same time, and also no problems. But instead of these I have also Peugeot 607, and to me it was suprice to compair it to XM. If looking under bonnet and subframe it's very much same car, like XM (or Peugot 605). I'm not supriced if next car of Seppo would be P607 !
Both are nice travel cars. The differences could be that the R25 was introduced in 1984, and the XM in 1989, so the XM is somehow more modern. We have done European trips with both cars, and both were calm and comfortable for it. However, the XM suspension is superior. We had an R25 (2.0) for 3 years, and at the same time a friend also had an R25 (2.2). Both work well and reliably. Renault cars are better than their reputation in use, and I have experience with different models. You could also take the Peugeot 607 model for comparison, because it is similar to the XM. I have one too. The Peugeot 605, XM, and 607 are all on the same platform, and have a lot in common. I wouldn't be surprised if Seppo buys a Peugeot 607 next
Seppo you only really need to worry when it tells you your not wearing your “ Beret , Striped black & white shirt and you left your ONIONS 🧅 at home “ 😁
I think most people probably exaggerated what the talking car computers could do back then, but really it's just a set of digital recordings that are triggered by what would usually just be a light on the dash, but playing a pre-programmed voice as well as lighting the normal warning bulbs... :)
A lot of car makers seeing Austin-Rover's early 80's all digital dash talking MG Montego started following until they realised folks didn't want a talkie car as no one liked much the MG Montego or the Austin Vanden Plas Montego and Maestro's which also had the talkie bit but not the digital dash. Ford a few years back tried to reintroduce the talkie computers in Fiesta and Focus's as an option but no one bit and it quietly got swept under the carpet. Me I loved my talkie MG Montego, that full VFD digital dash was astonishing and there were features like speed limit set which you set on the go and say set for 58 in a 60 if you hit 59 it would nag you until you dropped below 58.
I had a 1984 MG MONTEGO with the digital dash. The computer was not working and I fixed a dry solder joint and it then started talking to me! The trouble was that it told me every fault the car had…….quite a few evidently 😂. The most common fault being the alternator that you needed to remove the exhaust manifold to get the top bolt out to change. I loved it though and then bought two more, the last being a turbo with factory fitted body kit, it hid the rust. Fast as though back in the day 😊
idle valve not regulating could probably be the cause of missfires. it could run too lean, which is bad :D i think it should be closed when driving. maybe you can try to plug it and go for a ride?
Just looking at some of the forums about this engine and i think it has a co2 sensor and a pressure sensor attached to the air valve? Someone said their high idle was caused by the fuel regulator leaking? Is it time to plug in the sun machine?
"But can you do this?" I was wondering, is the engine made by Renault? I know back in the day Peugeot made a lot of engines for other brands, French or otherwise. I think Jay Emm or Number 27 did a video about France and French cars and how after The War they basically legislated themselves into making only underpowered, slow, not exciting cars, hence no fire breathing twin cam or big V8 engines. Bit of a shame really, I've always had a soft spot for French engineering.
French I understand. But my father in laws car would shout at me in Japanese. That was fine but the auto breaking feature which could not tell the differance between ramp transitions and walls was anoying.
Tjek lige temp føler til ecu, vis den ikke virker tror den der er -40c og du vil få tæningsudsætter, og høj tomgang. Du kan sikker måle modstanden i den med et diagram.
The miss fire I was thinking the Dist cap like you said. Start with the basics then move on. Even if you replace them at least you know you have ruled them out and they will be good for many years. :) if it is a carb fuel fed then might need a clean up if it it fuel injected then the same. It could also be the blocked off breather. If it has an ecu then it might be compensating perhaps?
The dashboards of the Renault 25 and Citroen XM Series I were by far the most beautiful and spacey cockpits. Today's cars are simply windows with displays.
Yes and it is because a well known designer was responsible for the interieur of the R25: Marcello Gandini!
Had a V6 Turbo back in the early 90's was a absolutely superb car, Quick Comfortable and pretty much problem free 😍
This would be amazing for the Festival of the Unexceptional.
Used to drive an 'ordinary' 25 estate. Gorgeous looking car , effortless to drive , massive capacity. Got a 240 now , can't imagine there's many 25s left in UK.
Most of the Bosch equipped engines I worked with in the mid 80s had the IAC idle valve which operates by signal frequency when the throttle itself is fully close. There is no "idle screw" but a throttle stop screw with locknut. The base set-up was to back off the throttle stop screw until the throttle plate "bottoms" in the throat then screw the stop screw just enough for the plate to stop before binding. Then adjust the throttle position switch using a voltmeter so you can see when it has returned and signals the IAC valve to maintain idle.
Some models had a wire that could be grounded to take the IAC out of the circuit to set basic idle.
With the IAC hose clamped off, the engine should normally stall at idle, but I think that someone has adjusted the throttle stop to allow the engine to idle, and that is causing the jerking on overrun because the engine is getting too much air.
Its not completely clamped of.. some air can still pass... its a matter of setting the clamp just right!
But yes.. its will probably make it run slightly lean... not sure how much it can detect and alter the fuel trims..
@@SeasideGarage I didn't explain well. When the IAC is working correctly, it shuts off completely when the overrun fuel cutoff operates, so the operation of the fuel cutoff is smooth. But with a fixed idle air supply, the operation of the fuel cutoff will cause jerking.
You have good taste, the car is lovely.
Hi,
Please do NOT TRY TO "ADJUST" the throttle position potentiometer on the throttlebody!!
This can only be done with the original diagnostic tool, the XR25, and has to be done using the right protocol in degrees. I forgot the exact protocol, it's too long ago.
Normally there is also no adjustment of that potentiometer needed! Ever!
Things you should check:
If the "flap" inside the idle controlvalve spins freely with no mechanical resistance. When you roll the idle controlvalve left/right/left/right in a fast rolling movement between both your hands holding it, you should be able to hear the flap touching its endstops. If not, clean a lubricate as best as you can.
A had to do this every 50.000km on my V6.
Sometimes when the valve has been stuck for a very long time, it's possible the control signal from the ecu is not there anymore. In that ecu, there is a small poweramp ic mounted against a coolingplate which can burn out. Most of the tine this is easy to spot, because it then explodes, and you see a hole in that is, which looks like a poweramp ic from a car stereo from the 80ties. TDA2004.
This scenario i have seen sometimes happen in a ecu from a standard V6.
I imagine the V6 turbo has a similair arrangment.
Suddenly i remember something important:
Under the intake there are 6 small rubber "boots" which connect the intake with the engine.
Big chance they are as hard as a rock, causing a airleak and high idle.
I had to replace them on my car for also a fast and unstable idle...
Hope this helps
Great input!
I MIGHT touch the TPS because I like to live my life on the edge.... but Ill be sure to mark the exact position before hand!
Could be nice with a XR25!
Thanks for this comment!
@@SeasideGarage
If it's not thouched? Please withstand the urdge to do so. It's very sensitive!
Better to search for the actual real cause. Vacuümleak most likely. Good luck.
New video coming soon.... but you very correct sir!
I DID fiddle with the TPP but made sure to put it back the same way... the problem with it was that I did not pick up on anything.. but with a clean it started working... probably sod on the coal strip...
But the conducter thing in the ecu is burnt also!... its been like this since 2017 so no wonder.... hope to find the correct poweramp thingie so I can solder that in... :)
Anyway... huge thanks!
@@SeasideGarage
I believe someone tried a TDA2004 as a replacement. Please also check if circuit board traces are not burnt.
Before remove the burnt part please reflow the old solder with new, so she can be extracted easy. Use solder wick to remove the old solder, or off course a desoldering station...
Good luck M8.
Are you sure the TPS is a sensor (potensiometer) and not just a switch? On the 80's cars I have worked on they did just have switch(es). Some just an idleswitch and some had idle and full throttle switches.
We had Renault Alliance in America in 1970s to 1980s disaster.
Perhaps American roads usagage different than Europe.
But old Volvos held up excellent here .
Love this channel 👍
A danke
Lots of Chrysler cars from the early 90’s are based on the 25.
Epic intro, Seppo!
As far as I can tell, it says: “Porte conducteur mal fermé”, meaning:
Driver door not closed properly
Sorry, just realized you mentioned that yourself - I’ll watch the whole video before commenting next time ;)
@@christianchristiansen99ha ha 👍
Next stage in this speaking car thing is my Citroën C6, but there you can speak WITH the car, by touching a button on the viper handle the car says "j'écoute" (I'm listening) and you can tell it to start things in french. Wonderful 🥰
I've never changed the language in the infotainment system cause I'm french speaking but I suppose there's a wide range of languages but my native Swedish. Wich is totally unnecessary 😅
By the way, that Renault is pretty amazing for it's age. Good luck with it 👍😊
Citroen c6 is a bit to new for me I think.... Hows the 4x4 doing? :)
@@SeasideGarage I've had that C6 for over 10 years, but today I really miss my XM wagons, way more solid cars honestly.
The 4X4 is coming together slowly, I'm almost done with the rear subframe now, as soon as the rear body is cleaned and rust protected the subframe goes back in. 😊
Epic car.
That V6 sounds glorious, even at idle. Never sell it, you will regret it!
Beautiful car, sounds fierce! Steering wheel is on the wrong side though. 😂
I just checked the wiring diagram for a ´91 model 25 the speech synthesizer is connected to: Low coolant, Pressure switch(oil?), Handbrake switch, Drivers door, Passenger door, Bonnet switch (2x LH+RH), Fuel tank sender switch, Thermal switch, LH rear light, RH rear light, Filament failure unit, Left rear door, Right rear door, Luggage compartment switch, Alternator. I don´t believe there are any difference in the older models.
The filament failure unit monitor sidelights, numberplate lights and stoplights
In my ´90 renault 25 baccara the button in the center console was power for the cruise control
very rare beast!
Great rare time capsule! 👍👍
I had the same idle valve problem with my v6 25, the new valve i bought did not work properly so I dismantled the original and cleaned it that fixed the high idle.
This is so entertaining: I have had once also R25, and several
W123 Mercs (still having one), and also having XM. 😅
I have never owned a Renault but had a lot of Merc's. Right now I own several XM's and a MB W140. How would you say the R25 compares to your XM? Of course XM's can vary a lot due to version and condition of the suspension components. But I wonder in general because Seaside is currently making me a bit of a Renault fan.
@@michaelheimbrand5424 It's difficult to compare really. But I would say, that R25 is anyway lounched at 1984-, and XM 1989-, so XM feels more modern car on that way. Both are fantastic touring cars, and we have used both of those at Europe vacation trips. Both are offering great comfort, and are relaxing to drive. For longer trip I would choose XM, because suspension is really fantastic. We had R25 (2.0) automatic three years, and it was very realible and easy to maintain. My friend had R25 (2.2) at the same time, and also no problems. But instead of these I have also Peugeot 607, and to me it was suprice to compair it to XM. If looking under bonnet and subframe it's very much same car, like XM (or Peugot 605). I'm not supriced if next car of Seppo would be P607 !
Both are nice travel cars. The differences could be that the R25 was introduced in 1984, and the XM in 1989, so the XM is somehow more modern. We have done European trips with both cars, and both were calm and comfortable for it. However, the XM suspension is superior. We had an R25 (2.0) for 3 years, and at the same time a friend also had an R25 (2.2). Both work well and reliably. Renault cars are better than their reputation in use, and I have experience with different models. You could also take the Peugeot 607 model for comparison, because it is similar to the XM. I have one too. The Peugeot 605, XM, and 607 are all on the same platform, and have a lot in common. I wouldn't be surprised if Seppo buys a Peugeot 607 next
Good taste in cars!
Seppo you only really need to worry when it tells you your not wearing your “ Beret , Striped black & white shirt and you left your ONIONS 🧅 at home “ 😁
Ha ha 😅
@@Ivorbiggin guess your not FRENCH LOL 😂
My 3rd car the Smart ForTwo also makes that "widdleboo" noise from the turbo, which makes me laugh every time.. (Phil)
I had an Austin Maestro with a talking dashboard, it soon got rather tiring 🤣
I think most people probably exaggerated what the talking car computers could do back then, but really it's just a set of digital recordings that are triggered by what would usually just be a light on the dash, but playing a pre-programmed voice as well as lighting the normal warning bulbs... :)
A lot of car makers seeing Austin-Rover's early 80's all digital dash talking MG Montego started following until they realised folks didn't want a talkie car as no one liked much the MG Montego or the Austin Vanden Plas Montego and Maestro's which also had the talkie bit but not the digital dash. Ford a few years back tried to reintroduce the talkie computers in Fiesta and Focus's as an option but no one bit and it quietly got swept under the carpet. Me I loved my talkie MG Montego, that full VFD digital dash was astonishing and there were features like speed limit set which you set on the go and say set for 58 in a 60 if you hit 59 it would nag you until you dropped below 58.
I had a 1984 MG MONTEGO with the digital dash. The computer was not working and I fixed a dry solder joint and it then started talking to me! The trouble was that it told me every fault the car had…….quite a few evidently 😂. The most common fault being the alternator that you needed to remove the exhaust manifold to get the top bolt out to change. I loved it though and then bought two more, the last being a turbo with factory fitted body kit, it hid the rust. Fast as though back in the day 😊
In some point, you could buy a talking onboard computer to Lada 110
WANT!
idle valve not regulating could probably be the cause of missfires. it could run too lean, which is bad :D i think it should be closed when driving. maybe you can try to plug it and go for a ride?
Just looking at some of the forums about this engine and i think it has a co2 sensor and a pressure sensor attached to the air valve? Someone said their high idle was caused by the fuel regulator leaking? Is it time to plug in the sun machine?
The Sun will definitely be useful on this one!
i hope you can get the parts you need....maybe if your lucky they were used on other vehicles not just the 25.....part numbers hopefully help
"But can you do this?" I was wondering, is the engine made by Renault? I know back in the day Peugeot made a lot of engines for other brands, French or otherwise. I think Jay Emm or Number 27 did a video about France and French cars and how after The War they basically legislated themselves into making only underpowered, slow, not exciting cars, hence no fire breathing twin cam or big V8 engines. Bit of a shame really, I've always had a soft spot for French engineering.
I’d would be looking for the ‘delete voice’ button within seconds!
I’d be looking for the ‘delete voice’ button within seconds!
If you ever get bored with it, let me know :)
Feeeeed!😊
Skal vi lave en dyno tur til Halle 77 i Dortmund med sjove 80’ee biler?
Det lyder fedt!
French I understand. But my father in laws car would shout at me in Japanese. That was fine but the auto breaking feature which could not tell the differance between ramp transitions and walls was anoying.
Sometimes my BX talks to me
Oh wait that's schizophrenia
Tjek lige temp føler til ecu, vis den ikke virker tror den der er -40c og du vil få tæningsudsætter, og høj tomgang. Du kan sikker måle modstanden i den med et diagram.
Hvor er der mange gode kamera vinkler . Bagfra i en anden højere bil ?
360 camera :) tak
The miss fire I was thinking the Dist cap like you said. Start with the basics then move on. Even if you replace them at least you know you have ruled them out and they will be good for many years. :) if it is a carb fuel fed then might need a clean up if it it fuel injected then the same. It could also be the blocked off breather. If it has an ecu then it might be compensating perhaps?
If the car has a problem that it can't recognise, does it say "Parce que française"
It will say "conducteur hors service" 😝
You like fast cars do ya? Try my 0-100kmh in 28.5 seconds 240D on for size. Ill hqve to do a speed test with my 180e and 280te.
Yeees.... I like the slow fast cars from the past... A electric scooter is probably as fast as the renault now...
if you honk the horn it shouts in French "déplace ta voiture de merde!". Joking aside, nice car.
Move your shitty car! 🤪
One of the first!! 👋🏻
I watched it first!
ChatGPT will interpret what Monsieur 25 is saying.
Why feel bad about fuel? You pay for it!
The car has 16 modules....drama.
Third 😂