For clarity: This applies to monsters that Trigger and includes an effect to summon ITSELF from the Hand. - If the Card activate in the GY but is a monster that can also summon itself from the hand via the same trigger, it counts toward the summon itself from hand trigger limit. (yes even if it is in the GY)
If you destroy Sacred Fire King Garunix to add a card to your hand using Fire King Island. Can you also special summon the same Sacred Fire King Garunix that was destroyed from the graveyard?
@@kosmikradmr.silentd6810 No because at the time of destruction the garunix wasnt in the gy. Island activate-> garunix gets destroyed->garunix is sent to gy->you search fk monster
I had a judge rule in a local that they both could trigger. I was mad. Imagine if fire kings did work like that. They would have so much free advantage for no reason.
Well sometimes people work with what they know, and do their best to give a fair ruling. It’s not an easy one. That’s why I said people are new and just don’t know this. But those who do it intentionally against newer players got away with it
@@MSTTV the judge played during gorz and befofe so I assumed they would also know they wouldn't trigger if multiple effect activate that could SS from the hand. It was unfortunate but hopefully other people don't let fire king players get away with that anymore.
Explaining Green Baboon Defender of the Forest to my local players has always been a struggle. Once it started to be explained in terms of gorz tragodea it would make perfect sense😂
It’s the green baboon ruling from back in the day. You can’t summon multiple trigger effect monsters from your hand this was a rule Konami established so people couldn’t summon multiple baboons from their hand at once. Same reason why Salamangreat Gazelle and Parallel eXceed can’t be chained together in the same sequence after you link summon the Balelynx.
This is one of those Yu-Gi-Oh! rulings that feels entirely arbitrary. Why can you trigger multiple effects off the same event but not if two of them are trying to summon themselves from the hand? Because! Why does this “if you can” effect act like a “when you can” for only this type of effect? Because! I’m not gonna fight a judge about it but this is just frustrating and does not feel congruous with other ways that I understand effects to work.
@@szymonsadlo IMO that one isn't arbitrary bc the "infinite times" are based off card effs and conditions like pk silent boots, an extra deck summon, or smth like halq. If you are playing a deck like floo you most likely aren't ss at all, but normal summoning multiple times bc of the effs. In a world where you weren't limited to normal summons it would speed up the game to a level past where it is alr at and would make many monsters completely useless. There is a reason Rush Duels need to maximize their hand every turn and they have less powerful cards.
@@stormextreme3970 but why 1 normal summon and not 2 or 3? or why infinite special summons and not 10 or 20? someone at some point arbitrarily said that this is the rule this game will follow. I'm not saying one or another is bad but rules are meant to be arbitrary. otherwise they would be recommendations
@@szymonsadlo Tbf there is no rule talking about special summons, but I understand the point. It was more based on the beginning of the game where there was just like 1 card that even special summoned anything so it wasn't needed. It is similar to cards early on not have the hard opt text.
It's also important to understand how the "hand summon restriction" works and how High Avatar Kirin works around it. The restriction is very specific which is why it rarely comes up outside of exactly Fire King: If you have a monster with a trigger effect that includes summoning ITSELF (itself as written as "this card") and the available locations to summon it from INCLUDE the hand, then that effect falls under said restriction. This includes the majority of the Fire King monsters. Now, what makes High Avatar Kirin so important is that you can chain block it's trigger effect as it does not summon itself, it summons another Fire King monster from your hand or GY. Due to it being so flexible you can basically throw 1 effect of another FK monster (for example Sacred Fire King Garunix as chain link 2) to the wolves to chain block Kirin (chain link 1) to effectively summon the same monster through a handtrap like Ghost Belle.
this was really helpful! seems like one of those rulings Konami put in so a mechanic couldn’t go too crazy! this is an obscure reference but someone told me something like this with “Jarrac Herra” saying i couldnt special all three from hand.
Fun fact: rulings 2 and 3 were implemented because of this card called Green Baboon…it caused some ruling nightmares and messed up game states so they had to implement an emergency ruling for it that affected every other cards…
Thank God for that, imagine the nightmare it would be the opponent activating a million trigger effects from hand, hand being a private knowledge place, so you can't even account for that in your plays, truly a surprise, one at a time is enough
@@GuilhermeDiGiorgi the issue I have is not that it’s the same card activating a billlion times because that would be an absolute ass disaster; my issue is that you can’t activate different cards because they can special summon from the hand or “potentially activate” from the hand.
Thanks for this video, my locals will need this. Also, I thought you would include the standby phase with Barong and Ponix. Where they don't start a chain and activate in separate chains. It would also be nice if you can, make a video over the battle phase like how Fire King's triggers work during damage step. That would be immensely helpful for people who are still unaware on how triggers work during damage step.
Barong and Ponix do start a chain in the Standby phase. Look at the difference in wording between Mirrorjade/DPE vs Barong/Ponix. You are correct that they would both activate on separate chains though.
Was trying to explain this to the judge at my locals too because he thought phase triggers are chain blockable. I gave example of branded stuff, Cartesia, albuion, etc. They don't chain block. I found the rule book explanation. Trigger effects are spell speed 1. Only time they can be spell speed 2 is if they are triggering simultaneously.
5:30 This is why yu gi oh as a card game sucks assssssss The biggest reason imo So many ancient arbitrary ruilings that make cards not do what they say they do.
Thanks a lot for making this video. I know it should be ruled that way or else everything will go out of hand but I feel these ruling are pretty dumb and is a pinacle of "Konami said so" that screwed with a lot of players. Not only you need to educate yourself but you need to pray that the judge is educated as well or else you get owned by a fire king player.
Thanks for this video, i just picked the deck up myself and was confused how some of these chain links work. The fact that you brought up the old gorz / tragodia rulings help make these rulings make sense. Good video!
Can you refresh my memory on if it’s legal to chain ghost Belle to Garunix effect in hand to Special? I think you talked about something similar with drytrons summoning from hand but idk if it’s the exact same scenario and also I can’t remember the ruling for that one anymore either :p
If Garunix is attempting to special in the hand then no. The place where it activates matter . If it attempts from GY then Belle can negate. It’s like drytrons
Also, just to be confusing, Barong/Rangbali have DIFFERENT trigger requirements to summon from hand compared to Ponix/garunix. Barong/Rangbali require a face up fire monster on the field to be destroyed by card effect. Ponix/garunix will trigger if any fire monster is destroyed, regardless of location or method.
Barong and Rangbali are a lot more specific on there summoning requirements, as they also require the monster destroyed on-field to be a Fire King instead of just any Fire monster like the birds.
Im so curious as to why they (Konami) would choose to not count "destruction from deck" as "sending a card from deck to GY", even tho "fusion from deck" does count as that. And i dont just mean cuz they seem similar, but also from a "player-friendly" perspective, to me it would make more sense for similar scenarios to be ruled the same way so that players can get a more intuitive sense of how things are ruled, rather than having to remember how each individual (yet similar) interaction is ruled, which is ofc more cumbersome for gameplay imho. Ngl, kinda hope they update this ruling to how fusing from deck works.
Fusion makes sense, but yah I'm a little lost on destruction why it doesn't fall under the same category, perhaps its within the definition of the terminology.
maybe because for most of the games life, destroying deck was something You might do to Opponent; whereas it wasn't til Shaddoll or Gem Knight that fusing from deck was a thing. destroying your own cards was kind of not in the original vision too much. when you keep hiring new architects to add on random rooms and hallways to a house, the blueprint might start to get messy...
@@MSTTVJust a side effect of wording,(which they may change in the future like they did with trap mons and snatch effects) like how Towers can be tributed for Kaiju or how mons that are unaffected can be outed with "Forbidden Apocrypha" because it makes "each _player_ sends.."
@@driptcg Even though the destroyed card will end up being sent to the Graveyard as a result, the effect is not treated as『an effect that includes sending cards from the Deck to the Graveyard.』Ruling on Defender of Nephthys (2nd effect works the same as Garunix) Fusion from deck is by design "sending cards to the Graveyard" just like how it allows face-down monsters on the field to be used as materials.
For those confused about Sacred Garunix not being Ash-able: The effect isn't sending a card to the GY; the effect is destroying the card. The _game mechanic of being destroyed_ is sending it to the GY.
But ashe reads: "When a card or effect is activated that INCLUDES any of these effects.." and destroying a card in the deck does include it sending to the GY. I ash cant negate garunix, why it can negate Branded Fusion then? Branded Fusion doesn't say either that you have to send cards to the GY, but it includes doing so. It's obviously a error in the ruling
@@5ar.s955most fusion effects are send to grave while most rituals are tributing. This is in the rulebook, cards can be only sent to the graveyard, OR tributed and sent OR destroyed and sent OR discarded and sent
@5ar.s955 cards going to the graveyard after being destroyed is a game mechanic, not an effect. If this was the case, why can't you ash grinning grave virus in master duel? It destroys cards in the deck, yet it can't be ashed.
Konami put all your rules In the rule book!!! lol the game is complexed enough it’s never fun going to a tournament only to find out you have been doing something wrong or wrong was done to you. thanks Tom for clearing this up.
Let's be honest - 1st - rules are rules and must be followed. This is the game. 2nd With that being said, a lot of the rulings doesn't make sense/logic. When you read it should happen like that, but because of fairy tail mechanic , you house gets blown by a tornado....
This kinda nerfs FK a bit, right? They used to make crazy chains in my locals getting massive advantage if you attacked them. With this ruling they are weaker to handtraps
What about salmagreat raging phoenix and either 2 fire king cause that’s only summon from grave, so it can summon of the same destruction along side Phonix
I think it would be interesting for you to cover the ruling that allows something like: Garunix trigger to summon from hand CL1, CL2 kirin destroying the garunix to summon itself. The Garunix will still resolve and summon from the GY/banish.
Kirin actually stays within the bounds of its archetype, only working with destruction. The new unchained stuff is dumb because they work when going to the gy generically
@Salati00 I didn't even catch that. It literally does say just when sent to GY. 🙃 literally goes against what Unchained used to do as an archetype by needing to be both destroyed and from field at that
Ok, so these don't work but I need help understanding why this DOES work: You have High Kirin in hand and activate Island. You blow up Ponix and search Garunix. You CL1 activate Garunix, CL2 activate High Kirin and blow up cl1 Garunix. High Kirin summons itself from hand and Garunix summons itself from gy, then activates its effect. Why does Garunix not Fizzle? Is it because it already is in the chain or because of some cost in Kirin's effect? As a side note, I almost wish some of these effects said "when" so it was more obvious when they miss timings.
May I add a 4th point that I consider extremely important? Scenario: You add New Garunix using Fire King Island so you go CL1 to SS it from hand (you destroyed a Ponix). You CL2 activate New Kirin without any other FIRE monster. On resolution, you summon Kirin from the hand by destroying the activated Garunix, then proceed to SS Garunix which is now in the GY. According to Drytron rulings, since this is a "different" Garunix from the one that activated in the hand, it shouldn't be able to SS itself. It's not worded like Dangers that SS 1 card with the revealed name, it SS "this card". I've seen this interaction in a lot of combo guides.
@0:47 uMM AkctuaLLY...... you cant use Ash even on the OG High Garunix since it triggers in damage step by being destroyed in battle. I'll see myself out.
So with example 2, WHY is it that way? What was the actual reason of the ruling itself? Not just “because it was ruled that way,” but “WHY was it ruled that way?” Appreciate the help here Side note: this is one of Yugioh’s biggest problems. We have to rely on a database translation (we technically can’t use) and old rulings that surmount to “because we said so” and Konami emails (for god’s sake) to explain actual game mechanics for the game. Why on Earth have we not gotten a database or updated mechanics?
Number#3 makes no logical sense at all. Sacred Garunix and Ponix are in different locations. Regardless of the "Hand or GY" clause of Garunix, those cards are logically in two different and separate locations. Am I misunderstanding something? This ruling is outrageous.
You says "well it's simple" and then state a restriction that is written neither in the rulebook nor on any card - once you know the rule its simple though. .... Unless it isn't! I thought it only applied to cards that would summon themselves from the hand, but using an OCG database that we're not supposed to use (so this rule is technically unconfirmed? Hard to say due to no TCG database for some ungodly reason) you're saying that Garunix can't trigger in GY either. Because Konami said so rulings are never ever simple imo. They should do better in those cases (either with card text, rulebook clarifications or a database)
hi tombox! what about this?: "We hace discussing some ruling on our local regarding ponix and salamangreat gazelle This is the interaction: Player A: activated fire king island and destroy a fire monster in the hand to search ponix, Is ponix able to activate his eff to special summon itself since a fire monster was destroyed by the field? Is ponix similar to salamangreat gazelle?" what would be resolution of this situation?
People who fake chainblock or confuses rules to win against noobies are un sportsman like players who have no spirit of the game. It's like lying about how En passant works in chess to a newer player to win the game. Such a bad behavior in the Yugioh Community. Like Yugi said "Its not about winning or loosing Kaiba. It's about how you play the game".
So I'm getting back into the and am playing Fire-Brigade. In a scenario where I'm using Fire king Island to pop Tri-B Kitt and search garunix. In what order or what status of chain do garunix and Kitt trigger?
Is the hand trigger ruling just a rule that exists in and of itself? I always thought that Gorz and Trag thing was because they’re both “When” effects so the last thing that happened wasn’t you taking damage it was you activating the gorz effect.
It’s a rule that exists by itself. Multiple triggers that can miss timing are allowed to activate in the same chain, missing the timing only applies if the last action before the current chain is not the trigger condition (i.e. if I use dark hole to destroy 2 or more yang zing monsters, both are able to trigger). I can see how this is somewhat confusing though since when (quick effects) exist like ash blossom that must respond directly to the card that meets its activation requirement.
I knew number 1 but only because I've played fire kings for a while. I have not had enough experience with the new support, so I was unaware of #2 and #3.
So this hand summon restriction only applies to when monsters are being attacked? Am I free to chain block in the MP if my opponent activates something like Dark Hole?
so, crarify this for me please. I have arvata on the field and garunix plus barong in the GY. Arvata gets destroyed, then I go garunix eff to revive itself, chain arvata to s. summon the barong in grave. barong hits the field first and then garunix, activating his effect. Is that legal?
If garunix summons from the grave or hand and then destroys a monster from hand or deck, can ponix then special summon from hand? Or would that not be a new chain? Please and thanks!
I think number two is wrong because the condition for the two cards is an IF condition whereas Gorz is a when. Obviously it wouldn’t be in the same chain link but it would still count would it not? From what I remember if conditions can occur regardless of the the timing where as when has to trigger right after the trigger.
That´s not good 4 me... I wanted to play it with blue-eyes triggering jet-dragon as well. thats not good... TY 4 telling me this be4 i buy all the shit i needed :D
Probably best to refrain from saying “whether you agree with me or not it doesn’t matter” when you’ve been historically wrong or misinformed in some of these. Weird to have such a defensive attitude at the end of the video too, if you’re the one providing rulings in an effort to educate players the burden of proof should ultimately be on you.
I was editing my comment and I got a return error because it got deleted because of your user name. Most of does fake chain blocking are only fake for TCG only, they are not fake for OCG, and Yugioh master duel. That is still a contradiction that is still present today.
Yugioh has become fundamentally broken. People need to see the root of the issue with all the new cards and chains. Konami ruined the game so long ago. The perfect format has long been gone
i shouldn't be needing a degree and masters as a lawyer in order to play a card game... i want to play fire kings but jesus christ all their effects and chain make my head spin from the first minute..
Even if you cant trigger the summon once i know for a fact you can summon multiple times in different chains because in master duel you can repeatedly summon from the hand and that is based off the ocg rules loosely how else do you explain people getting full boards in master duel turn 1 every game i generally run anti meta + my personal favorite cards so you get use to these things the point of yugioh is to run a spell or trap in your deck to counter said things like d-shifter and then boom there combos are done get good man dont bitch
I also read that you can't Ghost Belle Sacred Garunix if you're activating from hand but you can Ghost Belle if you're activating Sacred Garunix from GY according to a Drytron Alpha Thuban ruling, is this correct?
if opponent actives salamangreat rage and destroy fire king island and sanctuary in the same time or more cards including a fire monster on the field can i protect island by destroying 1 fire monster on the field or my hand? what are the rulling for those type of situation?
Thank you man, I really needed to know the third ruling you mentioned about the ponix in your hand while the sacred garunix in the grave. Because I wasn’t sure if I was allowed to do that but now I know thank you 😊
I assume you mean high kirin, kirin is a gy trigger effect to summon from the hand or gy and it doesn’t summon itself. The ruling ONLY applies to trigger effects that activate in hand and also special summons that activated monster from hand, it does not apply to second party effects that help to special summon a monster from the hand.
tom can i get a clarrifcation on the ruling , can they if they destroy kirin , do chl1 kirin chl2 garnuix , as kirin can summon from hand? does this become therefore a hand trigger and this chain is also illegal? just to explain situation , fire king island destroys kirin , on new chain they wish to do chl1 kirin in gy to summon , chl2 garunix effect to summon from hand
Great video and explanantions. So far from testing and research none of these surprised me. I expected more from the "Fake Chain" blocking but essentially it boils down to you CAN NOT trigger 2 or more "If a Fire monster was destroyed" (Garunix, Ponix, Rangbali) on the same chain. Yugioh has always been like that. I have never had a situation come up where this should happen. The correct line in most cases is to Trigger Garunix first then use Garunix on summon effect on new chain to pop a card and trigger Ponix.
If you destroy Snake eye flameburg dragon in the hand with scared Kirin, does Snake Eye Flameburg effect's happen on the same chain or a different chain?
With regard to the new Diabellze of the Original Sin: could you still activate cards from your hand like non-monster hand traps? If not, what about a card that sends itself the GY as a cost (no idea if any cards do that though), would that bypass Diabellze by activating in the GY? For context: I'm just getting back into Yu-Gi-Oh after several years away from the game thanks to since Christmas presents. I've always been a casual player but why to try playing more competitively now so I'm not great when it comes to rulings.
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For clarity: This applies to monsters that Trigger and includes an effect to summon ITSELF from the Hand.
- If the Card activate in the GY but is a monster that can also summon itself from the hand via the same trigger, it counts toward the summon itself from hand trigger limit. (yes even if it is in the GY)
If you destroy Sacred Fire King Garunix to add a card to your hand using Fire King Island. Can you also special summon the same Sacred Fire King Garunix that was destroyed from the graveyard?
@@kosmikradmr.silentd6810
No because at the time of destruction the garunix wasnt in the gy.
Island activate-> garunix gets destroyed->garunix is sent to gy->you search fk monster
I had a judge rule in a local that they both could trigger. I was mad. Imagine if fire kings did work like that. They would have so much free advantage for no reason.
I would show em this video. That’s frustrating.
Lmao deck would be so busted on 3x rangbali 3x garunix with unlimited trigger summons
Well sometimes people work with what they know, and do their best to give a fair ruling. It’s not an easy one. That’s why I said people are new and just don’t know this. But those who do it intentionally against newer players got away with it
Would it be stronger than 1+ danger monster triggering from 1 Card destruction ?
@@MSTTV the judge played during gorz and befofe so I assumed they would also know they wouldn't trigger if multiple effect activate that could SS from the hand.
It was unfortunate but hopefully other people don't let fire king players get away with that anymore.
Explaining Green Baboon Defender of the Forest to my local players has always been a struggle. Once it started to be explained in terms of gorz tragodea it would make perfect sense😂
Aw man, didn't realize #3 at all! I gotta say, some of yugiohs arbitrary rules are really frustrating
It’s the green baboon ruling from back in the day. You can’t summon multiple trigger effect monsters from your hand this was a rule Konami established so people couldn’t summon multiple baboons from their hand at once. Same reason why Salamangreat Gazelle and Parallel eXceed can’t be chained together in the same sequence after you link summon the Balelynx.
This is one of those Yu-Gi-Oh! rulings that feels entirely arbitrary. Why can you trigger multiple effects off the same event but not if two of them are trying to summon themselves from the hand? Because! Why does this “if you can” effect act like a “when you can” for only this type of effect? Because! I’m not gonna fight a judge about it but this is just frustrating and does not feel congruous with other ways that I understand effects to work.
Its definitely very arbitrary that hand summon effect is limited to once per chain
why we only can Normal Summon once per turn and Special Summon infinite times? every rule is arbitrary at some point
@@szymonsadlo IMO that one isn't arbitrary bc the "infinite times" are based off card effs and conditions like pk silent boots, an extra deck summon, or smth like halq. If you are playing a deck like floo you most likely aren't ss at all, but normal summoning multiple times bc of the effs. In a world where you weren't limited to normal summons it would speed up the game to a level past where it is alr at and would make many monsters completely useless. There is a reason Rush Duels need to maximize their hand every turn and they have less powerful cards.
@@stormextreme3970 but why 1 normal summon and not 2 or 3? or why infinite special summons and not 10 or 20? someone at some point arbitrarily said that this is the rule this game will follow. I'm not saying one or another is bad but rules are meant to be arbitrary. otherwise they would be recommendations
@@szymonsadlo Tbf there is no rule talking about special summons, but I understand the point. It was more based on the beginning of the game where there was just like 1 card that even special summoned anything so it wasn't needed. It is similar to cards early on not have the hard opt text.
It's also important to understand how the "hand summon restriction" works and how High Avatar Kirin works around it. The restriction is very specific which is why it rarely comes up outside of exactly Fire King: If you have a monster with a trigger effect that includes summoning ITSELF (itself as written as "this card") and the available locations to summon it from INCLUDE the hand, then that effect falls under said restriction. This includes the majority of the Fire King monsters.
Now, what makes High Avatar Kirin so important is that you can chain block it's trigger effect as it does not summon itself, it summons another Fire King monster from your hand or GY. Due to it being so flexible you can basically throw 1 effect of another FK monster (for example Sacred Fire King Garunix as chain link 2) to the wolves to chain block Kirin (chain link 1) to effectively summon the same monster through a handtrap like Ghost Belle.
this was really helpful! seems like one of those rulings Konami put in so a mechanic couldn’t go too crazy!
this is an obscure reference but someone told me something like this with “Jarrac Herra” saying i couldnt special all three from hand.
Fun fact: rulings 2 and 3 were implemented because of this card called Green Baboon…it caused some ruling nightmares and messed up game states so they had to implement an emergency ruling for it that affected every other cards…
Thank God for that, imagine the nightmare it would be the opponent activating a million trigger effects from hand, hand being a private knowledge place, so you can't even account for that in your plays, truly a surprise, one at a time is enough
@@GuilhermeDiGiorgi the issue I have is not that it’s the same card activating a billlion times because that would be an absolute ass disaster; my issue is that you can’t activate different cards because they can special summon from the hand or “potentially activate” from the hand.
Thanks for this video, my locals will need this. Also, I thought you would include the standby phase with Barong and Ponix. Where they don't start a chain and activate in separate chains. It would also be nice if you can, make a video over the battle phase like how Fire King's triggers work during damage step. That would be immensely helpful for people who are still unaware on how triggers work during damage step.
Barong and Ponix do start a chain in the Standby phase. Look at the difference in wording between Mirrorjade/DPE vs Barong/Ponix. You are correct that they would both activate on separate chains though.
It's the same as the ghoti tuners returning the standby phase after being banished, or all the effects from grave in branded during the end phase
@@serachobbythis is really how it works? I thought YGO omega was bugged tbh.
Was trying to explain this to the judge at my locals too because he thought phase triggers are chain blockable.
I gave example of branded stuff, Cartesia, albuion, etc. They don't chain block.
I found the rule book explanation. Trigger effects are spell speed 1. Only time they can be spell speed 2 is if they are triggering simultaneously.
@@serachobby My bad, I didn't mean don't start a chain. I did mean that they start a chain but in separate chains. Thanks for the correction!
5:30
This is why yu gi oh as a card game sucks assssssss
The biggest reason imo
So many ancient arbitrary ruilings that make cards not do what they say they do.
Thanks a lot for making this video. I know it should be ruled that way or else everything will go out of hand but I feel these ruling are pretty dumb and is a pinacle of "Konami said so" that screwed with a lot of players.
Not only you need to educate yourself but you need to pray that the judge is educated as well or else you get owned by a fire king player.
Thanks for this video, i just picked the deck up myself and was confused how some of these chain links work. The fact that you brought up the old gorz / tragodia rulings help make these rulings make sense. Good video!
Can you refresh my memory on if it’s legal to chain ghost Belle to Garunix effect in hand to Special? I think you talked about something similar with drytrons summoning from hand but idk if it’s the exact same scenario and also I can’t remember the ruling for that one anymore either :p
If Garunix is attempting to special in the hand then no. The place where it activates matter . If it attempts from GY then Belle can negate. It’s like drytrons
Also, just to be confusing, Barong/Rangbali have DIFFERENT trigger requirements to summon from hand compared to Ponix/garunix. Barong/Rangbali require a face up fire monster on the field to be destroyed by card effect. Ponix/garunix will trigger if any fire monster is destroyed, regardless of location or method.
Level 4s are like that I think
Barong and Rangbali are a lot more specific on there summoning requirements, as they also require the monster destroyed on-field to be a Fire King instead of just any Fire monster like the birds.
@@MSTTVAll of the old cards, mini Garunix and My Little Kirin has it too.
would this mean you could trigger both barong/rangbali and garunix/ponix in the same chain if a fire you control is destroyed?
@@soupdawhoop no, they're both still trigger effects that summon from hand. It's just a reminder that they have slightly different requirements
Im so curious as to why they (Konami) would choose to not count "destruction from deck" as "sending a card from deck to GY", even tho "fusion from deck" does count as that.
And i dont just mean cuz they seem similar, but also from a "player-friendly" perspective, to me it would make more sense for similar scenarios to be ruled the same way so that players can get a more intuitive sense of how things are ruled, rather than having to remember how each individual (yet similar) interaction is ruled, which is ofc more cumbersome for gameplay imho. Ngl, kinda hope they update this ruling to how fusing from deck works.
Fusion makes sense, but yah I'm a little lost on destruction why it doesn't fall under the same category, perhaps its within the definition of the terminology.
maybe because for most of the games life, destroying deck was something You might do to Opponent; whereas it wasn't til Shaddoll or Gem Knight that fusing from deck was a thing. destroying your own cards was kind of not in the original vision too much. when you keep hiring new architects to add on random rooms and hallways to a house, the blueprint might start to get messy...
@@MSTTV yeah ur probably right, probably has to do with how they want "destruction" to be defined
@@MSTTVJust a side effect of wording,(which they may change in the future like they did with trap mons and snatch effects) like how Towers can be tributed for Kaiju or how mons that are unaffected can be outed with "Forbidden Apocrypha" because it makes "each _player_ sends.."
@@driptcg Even though the destroyed card will end up being sent to the Graveyard as a result, the effect is not treated as『an effect that includes sending cards from the Deck to the Graveyard.』Ruling on Defender of Nephthys (2nd effect works the same as Garunix)
Fusion from deck is by design "sending cards to the Graveyard" just like how it allows face-down monsters on the field to be used as materials.
Im rusty AF. Im a licensed electrician working 60+ hour work weeks while full time adulting so i dont have alot of time for yugioh.
For those confused about Sacred Garunix not being Ash-able:
The effect isn't sending a card to the GY; the effect is destroying the card. The _game mechanic of being destroyed_ is sending it to the GY.
But ashe reads: "When a card or effect is activated that INCLUDES any of these effects.." and destroying a card in the deck does include it sending to the GY.
I ash cant negate garunix, why it can negate Branded Fusion then? Branded Fusion doesn't say either that you have to send cards to the GY, but it includes doing so.
It's obviously a error in the ruling
@@5ar.s955most fusion effects are send to grave while most rituals are tributing. This is in the rulebook, cards can be only sent to the graveyard, OR tributed and sent OR destroyed and sent OR discarded and sent
@5ar.s955 cards going to the graveyard after being destroyed is a game mechanic, not an effect. If this was the case, why can't you ash grinning grave virus in master duel? It destroys cards in the deck, yet it can't be ashed.
Konami put all your rules In the rule book!!! lol the game is complexed enough it’s never fun going to a tournament only to find out you have been doing something wrong or wrong was done to you. thanks Tom for clearing this up.
its just not translated in JP, but literally they have it all.
Similar to how Astrograph and Chronograph couldn’t stack. History repeats itself 😂
Bro everyone knows this already. Just because y'all figured it out months after everyone else doesn't mean you should make a video on it now.
‘This goes back to the classic days of...’
Me, screaming at the screen: GREEN BABOON!
I learned the 2nd/3rd one when i found out you cant summon blue-eyes jet and deep-eyes off the same battle destruction.
I like it allot that you actually showed the database entry. You should do that more often and say where they can find this entry.
"This is a children's card game."
It was Green Baboon that was the origin of that ruling.
Let's be honest - 1st - rules are rules and must be followed. This is the game. 2nd With that being said, a lot of the rulings doesn't make sense/logic. When you read it should happen like that, but because of fairy tail mechanic , you house gets blown by a tornado....
The other best example for the hand trigger ruling are Gazelle + Exceed.
This kinda nerfs FK a bit, right? They used to make crazy chains in my locals getting massive advantage if you attacked them. With this ruling they are weaker to handtraps
IM A DIRTY CHEATER😭😭 I’ve definitely resolved 3 before😭
What about salmagreat raging phoenix and either 2 fire king cause that’s only summon from grave, so it can summon of the same destruction along side Phonix
I think it would be interesting for you to cover the ruling that allows something like: Garunix trigger to summon from hand CL1, CL2 kirin destroying the garunix to summon itself. The Garunix will still resolve and summon from the GY/banish.
I love how they limited shavara and just made a new one in Kirin lol.
Konami tends to limit low rarity cards like Pankratops so shavara being a common kinda gave it away
Fire Kings are way more easy to handle than Unchained lol
Kirin actually stays within the bounds of its archetype, only working with destruction. The new unchained stuff is dumb because they work when going to the gy generically
@Salati00 I didn't even catch that. It literally does say just when sent to GY. 🙃 literally goes against what Unchained used to do as an archetype by needing to be both destroyed and from field at that
This shit should reeeeeally be in the rulebook.
They should also reeeeeally include the rulebook with structure decks.
Ok, so these don't work but I need help understanding why this DOES work:
You have High Kirin in hand and activate Island. You blow up Ponix and search Garunix. You CL1 activate Garunix, CL2 activate High Kirin and blow up cl1 Garunix.
High Kirin summons itself from hand and Garunix summons itself from gy, then activates its effect.
Why does Garunix not Fizzle? Is it because it already is in the chain or because of some cost in Kirin's effect?
As a side note, I almost wish some of these effects said "when" so it was more obvious when they miss timings.
May I add a 4th point that I consider extremely important?
Scenario: You add New Garunix using Fire King Island so you go CL1 to SS it from hand (you destroyed a Ponix).
You CL2 activate New Kirin without any other FIRE monster.
On resolution, you summon Kirin from the hand by destroying the activated Garunix, then proceed to SS Garunix which is now in the GY.
According to Drytron rulings, since this is a "different" Garunix from the one that activated in the hand, it shouldn't be able to SS itself. It's not worded like Dangers that SS 1 card with the revealed name, it SS "this card".
I've seen this interaction in a lot of combo guides.
@0:47 uMM AkctuaLLY...... you cant use Ash even on the OG High Garunix since it triggers in damage step by being destroyed in battle. I'll see myself out.
So with example 2, WHY is it that way? What was the actual reason of the ruling itself? Not just “because it was ruled that way,” but “WHY was it ruled that way?”
Appreciate the help here
Side note: this is one of Yugioh’s biggest problems. We have to rely on a database translation (we technically can’t use) and old rulings that surmount to “because we said so” and Konami emails (for god’s sake) to explain actual game mechanics for the game. Why on Earth have we not gotten a database or updated mechanics?
Number#3 makes no logical sense at all. Sacred Garunix and Ponix are in different locations. Regardless of the "Hand or GY" clause of Garunix, those cards are logically in two different and separate locations.
Am I misunderstanding something?
This ruling is outrageous.
You says "well it's simple" and then state a restriction that is written neither in the rulebook nor on any card - once you know the rule its simple though.
.... Unless it isn't! I thought it only applied to cards that would summon themselves from the hand, but using an OCG database that we're not supposed to use (so this rule is technically unconfirmed? Hard to say due to no TCG database for some ungodly reason) you're saying that Garunix can't trigger in GY either.
Because Konami said so rulings are never ever simple imo. They should do better in those cases (either with card text, rulebook clarifications or a database)
hi tombox! what about this?:
"We hace discussing some ruling on our local regarding ponix and salamangreat gazelle
This is the interaction:
Player A: activated fire king island and destroy a fire monster in the hand to search ponix,
Is ponix able to activate his eff to special summon itself since a fire monster was destroyed by the field? Is ponix similar to salamangreat gazelle?"
what would be resolution of this situation?
People who fake chainblock or confuses rules to win against noobies are un sportsman like players who have no spirit of the game. It's like lying about how En passant works in chess to a newer player to win the game. Such a bad behavior in the Yugioh Community.
Like Yugi said "Its not about winning or loosing Kaiba. It's about how you play the game".
So I'm getting back into the and am playing Fire-Brigade.
In a scenario where I'm using Fire king Island to pop Tri-B Kitt and search garunix. In what order or what status of chain do garunix and Kitt trigger?
what if I had 3X sacred garunix in my graveyard then I destroy my Ponix using fk island will it trigger my 3X garunix on my gy to special summon it
I was unaware of the hand summoning ruling so that's good. Where is the ruling database?
Is the hand trigger ruling just a rule that exists in and of itself? I always thought that Gorz and Trag thing was because they’re both “When” effects so the last thing that happened wasn’t you taking damage it was you activating the gorz effect.
It’s a rule that exists by itself. Multiple triggers that can miss timing are allowed to activate in the same chain, missing the timing only applies if the last action before the current chain is not the trigger condition (i.e. if I use dark hole to destroy 2 or more yang zing monsters, both are able to trigger). I can see how this is somewhat confusing though since when (quick effects) exist like ash blossom that must respond directly to the card that meets its activation requirement.
Thanks for the response Space Coyote!
I knew number 1 but only because I've played fire kings for a while. I have not had enough experience with the new support, so I was unaware of #2 and #3.
So this hand summon restriction only applies to when monsters are being attacked? Am I free to chain block in the MP if my opponent activates something like Dark Hole?
Applies any time.
@@towu8479 thx
so, crarify this for me please. I have arvata on the field and garunix plus barong in the GY. Arvata gets destroyed, then I go garunix eff to revive itself, chain arvata to s. summon the barong in grave. barong hits the field first and then garunix, activating his effect. Is that legal?
I love that we have to explain the rulings of a card that was released in 2007/8 to explain why Garunix and Ponix don't work
Thanks for the vid!! Definitely did a lot of illegal plays great to know that I can’t do these plays!!!
If garunix summons from the grave or hand and then destroys a monster from hand or deck, can ponix then special summon from hand? Or would that not be a new chain? Please and thanks!
I think number two is wrong because the condition for the two cards is an IF condition whereas Gorz is a when. Obviously it wouldn’t be in the same chain link but it would still count would it not? From what I remember if conditions can occur regardless of the the timing where as when has to trigger right after the trigger.
The first one shouldn’t even be a part of the video man…. Y’all just need to learn how to fucking READ
That´s not good 4 me... I wanted to play it with blue-eyes triggering jet-dragon as well. thats not good... TY 4 telling me this be4 i buy all the shit i needed :D
Probably best to refrain from saying “whether you agree with me or not it doesn’t matter” when you’ve been historically wrong or misinformed in some of these. Weird to have such a defensive attitude at the end of the video too, if you’re the one providing rulings in an effort to educate players the burden of proof should ultimately be on you.
I was editing my comment and I got a return error because it got deleted because of your user name. Most of does fake chain blocking are only fake for TCG only, they are not fake for OCG, and Yugioh master duel. That is still a contradiction that is still present today.
Yugioh has become fundamentally broken. People need to see the root of the issue with all the new cards and chains. Konami ruined the game so long ago. The perfect format has long been gone
I don't believe this isn't malicious cheating at work. These rulings have been known for years
one common thing i see people do often is they attempt to ghost belle the garunix effect to summon from hand, which btw is not possible
i shouldn't be needing a degree and masters as a lawyer in order to play a card game... i want to play fire kings but jesus christ all their effects and chain make my head spin from the first minute..
Even if you cant trigger the summon once i know for a fact you can summon multiple times in different chains because in master duel you can repeatedly summon from the hand and that is based off the ocg rules loosely how else do you explain people getting full boards in master duel turn 1 every game i generally run anti meta + my personal favorite cards so you get use to these things the point of yugioh is to run a spell or trap in your deck to counter said things like d-shifter and then boom there combos are done get good man dont bitch
Played against a friend yesterday who brought fire kings and I had to correct him so many times because I read his cards and he obviously didnt.
Hey Tom what happend with the effect off Kirin when i have it in my Hand? its same like Garunix and Ponix As an example 3 or ?
I also read that you can't Ghost Belle Sacred Garunix if you're activating from hand but you can Ghost Belle if you're activating Sacred Garunix from GY according to a Drytron Alpha Thuban ruling, is this correct?
Yes, there are other comments in here that confirm it as well
if opponent actives salamangreat rage and destroy fire king island and sanctuary in the same time or more cards including a fire monster on the field can i protect island by destroying 1 fire monster on the field or my hand? what are the rulling for those type of situation?
Does The hand triger effects rulling also aply with garunix and kirin?
So essentially if a monster would be summoned from the hand after being destroyed u can only activate and summon 1?
The garunix and ponix chain trigger not working is such bullshit on konami's part
People who fall into that barong “misplay” didn’t play fire kings years ago lol
Ok so if a card has an effect that let it summon from either hand or gy, it is still counted as an effect that summons from hand, regardless?
This sounds like someone who doesnt like fire kings making up rules to sway his direction kinda lame man
Everyone on the internet is so rude. Everyone in real life is so rude and mean. Why are you all such awful people?
The hand trigger ruling is due to green baboon.
If kirin gets destroyed while garunix is on gy can I go cl 1 kirin cl 2 garunix?
how does herald of arc light interact with Fire King monsters destroyed from hand or deck?
Really playing into the meme that Yu-Gi-Oh players can't read
if i discarded 2 sillvas by an effect, I could not chain and summon them both?
Thank you man, I really needed to know the third ruling you mentioned about the ponix in your hand while the sacred garunix in the grave. Because I wasn’t sure if I was allowed to do that but now I know thank you 😊
You could probably get a job at a legal firm by putting Yugioh on your resume
you forgot the fake chain block in standby with ponix and barong
most judges dont rule like this bc its just too old and doesnt cause loops or stuff that breaks the game
Nothing from Fire King will ever get banned. It's tier 3..
He's there. He's right there. The first guy listed. The green baboon.
Can garunix summon effect from hand be ghost belle
En francais ( esque je peut ghost belle l'effet d'invocation de garunix depuis la main ?)
Can you just chain ponix to the monster garunix send
So question about the second ruling: Does it work similarly if it were Kirin and Garunix?
I assume you mean high kirin, kirin is a gy trigger effect to summon from the hand or gy and it doesn’t summon itself. The ruling ONLY applies to trigger effects that activate in hand and also special summons that activated monster from hand, it does not apply to second party effects that help to special summon a monster from the hand.
Honestly, the last one is a stupid ruling.
Although I get it, the garunix gy ruling is so garbage.
Can you make one on destructive daruma karma cannon
tom can i get a clarrifcation on the ruling , can they if they destroy kirin , do chl1 kirin chl2 garnuix , as kirin can summon from hand? does this become therefore a hand trigger and this chain is also illegal? just to explain situation , fire king island destroys kirin , on new chain they wish to do chl1 kirin in gy to summon , chl2 garunix effect to summon from hand
Kirin is fine, it doesn’t summon itself from the hand, key point, this applies to monsters summon itself from the hand
garunix in the grave can catch by belle?
Gem knight beat down op im seeing
you cant ash the garunix but you can ash the barong which is 90% of the time what they destroy.
Yes, that was affirmed in the beginning of the vid about ash and sacred garunix as the correction
Bro are you even credible??
Thanks for the video
1:50 Barong's effect doesn't trigger unless destroyed by card effect
Correct! That’s why people are making a huge misplay!
Great video and explanantions. So far from testing and research none of these surprised me.
I expected more from the "Fake Chain" blocking but essentially it boils down to you CAN NOT trigger 2 or more "If a Fire monster was destroyed" (Garunix, Ponix, Rangbali) on the same chain. Yugioh has always been like that.
I have never had a situation come up where this should happen. The correct line in most cases is to Trigger Garunix first then use Garunix on summon effect on new chain to pop a card and trigger Ponix.
If you destroy Snake eye flameburg dragon in the hand with scared Kirin, does Snake Eye Flameburg effect's happen on the same chain or a different chain?
I’m confused about #3.
So there isn’t a TCG ruling about it?
Only an OCG ruling?
With regard to the new Diabellze of the Original Sin: could you still activate cards from your hand like non-monster hand traps?
If not, what about a card that sends itself the GY as a cost (no idea if any cards do that though), would that bypass Diabellze by activating in the GY?
For context: I'm just getting back into Yu-Gi-Oh after several years away from the game thanks to since Christmas presents. I've always been a casual player but why to try playing more competitively now so I'm not great when it comes to rulings.
I’ll look into it when we get to legacy of destruction
No. Like Imperm , it doesn’t work and evenly won’t work. Must be set first. Which also locks them in for the turn