@@stevenobrien7686No, it has nothing to do with whether or not you're a survivor or killer. Stop feeding the Us Vs Them bullshit. As a former killer main when I was sub 1000 hours still learning the nuances for how to play killer well, I was routinely reminded how little survivors gave a shit about my experience. There were many attempted bully squads, some of them successful. Both sides are guilty of this "lack of empathy" you speak of. I don't know who struck first, but the community as a whole is the problem. NOT "killers", not "survivors". Everybody. This isn't new. This is a problem as old as the game itself if you really look back at the game's history, go far back enough and you'll find survivors holding killers hostage WITHOUT hacking. And vice versa.
When I compare lifestyle and empathy standards from English speaking countries to someplace like Japan, I see a big difference - and it convinces me that even with the internet, there are ways to maintain a cultural shift towards respect and understanding. We're just sort of resigned to the idea it's impossible in America. Admittedly, it would require decades of changes to what we consider "expected norms".
Pretty hard to be empathetic in a world where a school full of children gets obliterated every other week, I don't blame anybody for being unempathetic in this place. Just care about yourself and those around you, life will be easier.
Tbh it is what it is , people will keep dcing for good reasons or no reasons at all and there is nothing you can do to change it ... its people time and they are entitled to ruins other people experience if the match itself doesnt fit them , its kinda what you sign up for playing as a team game , dont know why scott is on this crusade of trying to stop this when on previous years people were trying to boycott BHVR to make a point and he didnt care at all , in fact he made the same argument im making here
@@flyingdutchman8399because the entitlement dbd players have is ridiculous, other games ridicule people who DC constantly. You can actually get banned for sabotaging games or consistently leaving because it ruins everyone elses experience that actually wants to play the game. the people who just give up mid match are actually a minority, but it takes one per game to ruin it. and if its the killer, the entire game is over. dbd is special because of being asymmetrical yes, but expecting the game to revolve around you while also not expecting to be punished for it is stupid. you are not justified for leaving the game, there is no good reason. youre supposed to have fun, if you’re not then play a different game because youre having a bad time and taking other people down with you
@@demifolk8940only in ranked. Most people don’t care when people leave in Quick Play because there’s back fill and if you had a crap teammate who’s throwing and they quit you got a chance at getting a god tier player that flips the game.
@@flyingdutchman8399 Except Scott's argument has nothing to do with DC and everything to do with giving up on hook, I'm not sure why your painting this as him talking about DCing but hes not and still thinks if you really are going to give up just DC instead of dying on hook because at least a bot can do something, Its almost like your ignoring all his points in favour of focusing on something else that he already said you can do what you want with, Hes not anti dc hes anti going next which is literally about dying on hook to get no penalties and robs a team of a member. Literally just DC and waste your own time because of your own choices instead of wasting others, Its as simple as that and to think that 1 person should be allowed to waste 4 other peoples times because "Well its their time they can do what they want with it!" Is literally entitlement that is literally what entitlement is, You think you are owed something therefore you do the thing without a second thought, No one is entitled to time literally no one, Everything is a waste of time and to think your time is more valuable than others is nothing short of hubris.
>The people who argue the hardest for an excuse to not play the game are the ones obsessively trying to play it Addiction mindset is a fuckin scary thing
@@OMGWTFROFLCOPTERBBQ nah bro it ain’t that deep. I just don’t like being slugged with KO 3rd Seal in solo queue I’m basically guaranteed to bleed out.
I can respect not wanting to play DBD, for many reasons, but if I don't want to play DBD I just... don't queue? Why not just go next to a different game you actually enjoy?
Its kinda a dance between i want fun matches / i get a unfun match , the main factor here is the people own perspective of what is unfun , cause we all agree that dcing or giving up vs ultra sweaty blight nurse or spirit is just a go next no one cares scenario , but for some people dcing against legion is legit so there is a problem
That's what I did, too many quitters. The DC's and the entitlement the community has around the "right to DC" grew too tiresome to deal with, so I embraced their mindset and "went next" to a completely different game.
It's crazy because these go next people say it's entitled to expect them to play out the match but not entitled for them to ruin the game for 4 other people because something happened that they didn't like.
The world revolves around them. This game wasn’t made to sustain players for over a thousand hours. I’m a survivor main but it’s really annoying how people just ignore the 4 other people in your lobby who also want to play the game. I don’t care about winning or losing o just wanna have fun. Even if we all die if it’s a competitive game to the end that’s all that matters. I’ve had to take a break from the game because now it’s either people quitting Less than a minute into the match or just genuine solo queue incompetence so the only way I “win” is by going against terrible killers
People forget that this game is a TEAM GAME. Imagine if you were to do ANYTHING team oriented IRL and within 5 minutes a guy goes "eh I'm not having fun I quit". That person just looks like an entitled baby. Why que into a TEAM game and not be commited to be a teammate? Just play a single player game or at least killer like ffs. Survivors nowadays genuinely have crazy brainrot it's insane
yeah but if i start doing something with a team IRL only to have two of them crouch behind objects in the room while the third sets off on a completely unrelated and unhelpful task then i'll probably bail on them too
Most “Team” games currently can be won by one or two very skilled players when the opponents are less skilled. The most popular competitive multiplayer games are all like this. League, OW, Valorant, CS2, etc. If there’s one or 2 good players, those good players can carry. That is almost never true of DBD because of the game formula and lack of skill expression on the survivor side. The whole notion of “Team Game” is only relevant when both sides are actually balanced and allow for high skill ceiling expressions. If the killer goes for the 2/3 weakest loopers first, there is pretty much nothing a super skilled survivor can really do to help the team win.
I think the main issue is that being a team player isn't really rewarded in the game. If you had some kind of bonus for other people escaping, maybe there'd be some incentive to play out scenarios that are hopeless for yourself
i think the best solution is the one proposed by otz, where if a survivor dc's the rest of the players in the game can dc and receive no penalty plus keep the amount of bp they've earned so far. 1 person decides to ruin the game, the rest of the lobby can just end it, keep their rewards and go next also
@@mayamiyuki8814They need to make a giving up report option that when somebody gets many of (and the game checks for behaviour that looks like giving up) then they just get slapped with a week-long ban. Fuck those guys, the punishment needs to be much more severe than DCing.
@@Vasiliy9hells Except dcing isn't even half of the actual issue. Going next isn't hitting escape and disconnecting or alt f4ing it's killing yourself on hook. Otz solution would do absolutely nothing to curtail the going next mentality and would only lead to people figuring out some way to abuse the fuck out of disconnect penalty essentially no longer existing.
Watched till the end and on the lack of empathy point - this is literally encouraged by the devs. Not even obviously like SBMM making you lose no matter what if you die, even if that means saving the rest of your team but also just in atittude. They said clearly in response to a plea to improve solo queue that is INTENDED DESIGN FOR SOLO PLAYERS TO BE RATS AND NOT HELP OTHERS AND INSTEAD SURVIVE ALONE.
SBMM being based on individual escapes is one of the most confusing things that exists in current DBD. It feels like one of those "old DBD" things that you'd only see mentioned in videos with the old UI like 3 iri hatchet huntress
That's just the classic bhvr defensive bs they say, though. Literally every huge problem with the game they just deny in some way before eventually fixing it months/years later. These motherfuckers said running infinites was skillful and so they didn't want to get rid of it so they didn't have to do anything. Bhvr are just the worst and unless they're talking about future patches everything they say should be ignored because they're the most manipulative and gaslighting studio towards their playerbase I have ever seen by an enormous margin.
@@zackmash851 Yeah. A lot of this is human nature. The devs feed this and horrible people feast. The problem is the lack of competition for rational people with devs who don't actually want people to suffer or have deluded visions of grandeur or actually view this as a game rather than an art project with 'visions' that must not be touched (for example the basement is a terrible gameplay mechanic but an engaging movie trope). Everyone who has tried to be competition has fallen into one pit fall or the other that would be obvious if you were actually paying attention. There's a video on this somewhere.
@@Peachrocks5 i made a video on why asyms fail and i still think beyond all the other things mentioned "copy dbd legally distinctly but don't take the shit" is the overarching thing lol
I think this might be a tolerance paradox thing. If you are ignorant towards the people you're playing with and don't care about ruining other peoples fun, don't expect them to tolerate you being intolerant to them.
Player knowledge with unwinnable (or "unwinnable") situations in matches might also be a factor, if someone thinks the BP/risk of bleedout outweighs the chances of winning, they might go next out of seeing the match as already over (whether or not that's actually the case).
As a solo queue player, I consider a 3v1 at 3 gens unwinnable and absolutely will go next in that situation. I don't care to work on a gen that won't end up powering the exit gates just to get killed anyway. Nor do I care to hide in the corner pulling my pecker until my teammates die and hatch is open. Just kill me.
This is why I think DBD has a snowball problem and needs to have more catch-up mechanics built in. The better a side does, the more benefit the other side gets. "But that's punishing me for doing well!" Sure, that's a way to look at it. I prefer to look at it as "trying to drive the game closer to a 50/50" that prevents the "unwinnable" situations that arise in asymmetrical games.
burn out is definitely the biggest factor. every time i take a break from the game i come back and enjoy it again. the game keeps improving and taking a step back really helps you see that
@@zackmash851This is just incorrect , the game has gotten way better. More balanced killers, 2v8, chaos shuffle etc. Remember keys, ds dribbling, struggle phase spam. Please just take a break from the game.
@@Logan-bo7nt im not saying NOTHING got better over the years, but the game has definitely trended downward in the past 4 years. rampant server issues that lead to more gameplay issues than killer hosting ever did; a move to UE5 that has lead to more things not working properly than things working properly; awful balance changes like 6.1; objectively the worst map design the game has ever seen in both remade maps, new maps, and new tile design; powercrept killers with unfun power concepts and even worse implementation; perks and perk combinations that are garbage for solo players but unimaginably broken in SWFs pushing the gap between roles further and further apart; the list goes on man
@@zackmash851 Still disagree. The game is way better than 4 years ago and if you can’t see that, then I suggest taking a break from the game. You’re being overly cynical.
8:06 It's actually crazy how much of an impact the first couple months of Skull Merchant's existence negatively affected her. It's to the point that nearing 2 years on people hate facing her, not because her power is broken or irritating to face, but seemingly simply for the fact that she exists and they remember when she was 😂 I can't think of another game where this has ever happened. She could be removed from the game at this point and BHVR could issue a public apology for creating her and people would still be complaining years later. Genuinely one of the craziest things I've seen playing this game for nearing 6 years now.
3:24 Well, the issue is that this is just one thing, right? Then what? Killer is tunneling a teammate, so now you want Shoulder to counter it. Killer is slugging, so now you want Live Forever. Killer is camping, so now you want Reassurance. Yeah, Killer is tunneling, so now you want OTR. Oh, but they hit you immediately on unhook anyway, to mitigate OTR, so now you want Decisive. Oh, they'll down you and slug you, so now you want Unbreakable. Oh, the Killer is playing for their 3 gens since the start of the game, so now you wish you had toolboxes, or Potential Energy, or Prove... There are *only* four perk slots, in a game that's been using perks to bandaid the core problems for over 10 years. You can talk about each problem individually and say, "Just run this perk," but when you zoom out, there's just not enough slots. These problems need a fundamental fix, not a perk.
Camping is dead in the game tunneling does have effective counters slugging is something that is hard to fix since some killers literally need to do it to create pressure
@@Tyekiller115 Nobody cares about face camping. That was a BM tactic, not a strategic tactic. Camping itself is not affected by the anti-face camp mechanic. Do you even play DBD??? Killers don't even respect it because it's trivial. Survivors don't adapt their play according to it, because it will never grant somebody an unhook. What game are you even playing? You will get literally zero support if you say the anti-face camp mechanic shut down camping. You sound like a guy that read the patch notes but hasn't played in 5 years. And you can camp while applying pressure just fine. Throw someone on a hook between 3 gens. Easy game, easy life. Yeah, I'm not actually convinced you even play DBD, let alone have any business trying to participate in this conversation.
Burnout is 100% the biggest factor for this go next mindset and more people need to learn to take breaks from this game. I've definitely had my own babyrage giving up on first hook moments in the past but now I've barely played the game in 2024, only came back in december and I'm having the best time even with things that i know would have pissed me off in the past.
29:48 I don’t understand how that guy is being hypocritical. He was being useful during the match by distracting the killer. His teammates see that he’s taking chase and they decide to not progress the game in any way. He could run the killer for 20 minutes and the teammates would still be looking for totems or hiding at the hint of a terror radius. So him wanting to go next is completely understandable. It’s clear that his teammates only care about their own survival, and not the survival of the whole team. So they probably won’t even care that he goes next anyways.
I think Scott was working with the assumption that they willingly put themselves on hook without chasing, which would mean they're useless. Given that the comment doesn't go into detail, it's hard to tell whether this is the case.
scott calling people out for working with assumptions when he does the same thing, classic dbd entitlement. like if you aren't having fun, don't play. you're not gonna get people to change with 30 minute videos complaining and giving them validation in what they are doing.
@@xefficient1948I was assuming that the person was taking chase and going down, then would see that his teammates were in the basement or doing totems. But yeah, looking at the comment now, I guess it’s never stated that he was taking chase.
@@hossiceexactly, no going nexter is changing their mind over a streamer calling them entitled. this video is purely to satiate scott’s viewers who already agree with him by giving them their regular scott jund opinion slop for the week.
I kinda agree with the second guy; you shouldn’t be forced to bring OTR or DS or any meta perks. The joys of builds and perk synergy is you make whatever build you want and that’s fun as hell. Does it make it easier if you bring meta perks? Yes. But is it fundamentally flawed that those perks are borderline required in many games nowadays? Also yes. I agree, if you’re getting tunneled, for example, slap on the anti tunneled perks. But that shouldn’t be the only solution. Edit: this is coming from someone who has been here since Myers introduction. I’ve seen all the downs and ups. While meta perks will forever exist as optimization of gameplay is inevitable, it shouldn’t be a silver bullet. That creates stale and bland gameplay, thus hurting retention.
Sadly that's like trying to play a brew in a card game. Like running a Yu-Gi-Oh deck without handtraps, or a Legacy deck with no copies of Force, Fatal Push, lock pieces or graveyard hate. It's just going to be miserable if tou don't do the things the format is balanced around
I agree. The fact that you need to run anti-tunnels for the game to be even playable is horrible game design and this is coming from someone who always runs anti-tunnel builds
The game is designed around interaction. Killers have their ways to meddle in the plans of survivors and survivors have their ways of subverting killers. In any game not just dbd if your strategy or build isn't good enough to win unless the opponent doesn't interact with you then the issue probably isn't the game. You probably just need to build (or be) better at the game to begin with. As a player you should be protecting your win conditions and countering your opponent's if this is not what you are doing how can you expect to win at all?
I feel like this goes the same with regression perks for killers. It's not as bad as survivor but your winrate ir killrate drops massively, bigger then it should be i feel like. And im kinda bored of killers bringing the same stuff every single game.
That guy around 6 minutes who just goes "I leave if I don't like it" basically sums up the survivor entitlement. So you're telling me that playing like 75% of the game isn't fun for you? Why are you even playing?
in solo q, its not unusual for 75% or more of games to be unplayable and a waste of time. i reserve the right to leave the game if my teammates dont touch gens for the first minute, or if the killer tunnels a weak link, or plays a broken character, or cheap playstyle. if i couldnt do that i would NEVER get games that are enjoyable because id be stuck in all the shitty unfun ones. im all for removing the dc penalty. killers that sweat vs solos dont deserve fun games anyways. the moment bhvr removes a way to go next i will uninstall this game 100%. and i say this as someone who plays plenty of killer too (i just dont play it like an ass)
But they don’t leave 75% of the time. You act like people that go next do it every match. As someone who does it there’s very specific things that I do it for. Outside of those things I play it out. Slugularity is chief among my reasons to do it. And that’s only because I’m solo queue if I was in a SWF I wouldn’t really care.
@@CUZdeathwinswhy are you playing dbd if 75% of your matches are, by your definition, miserable? GO PLAY SOMETHING ELSE INSTEAD OF MAKING THE GAME WORSE FOR OTHERS. Before I took a break from this game, I had a bad habit of giving up on killer and afking. Instead of continuing to play and get pissy when a game was unwinnable, I JUST STOPPED PLAYING. YOU DONT NEED DBD TO LIVE LIFE.
Because making the game unfun for killers is the other 25% that makes it fun. Almost like making a horror game into a wannabe competitive mess is a terrible idea.
i cannot agree with the anti tunneling take, it is the exact same scenario as old borrowed time where you would be throwing if you dont take it, but even worse because you only get tunneling matches 50% of the time, so theres a 50% chance you’re just playing a no perk game which is honestly really unfun. and while normally i would agree that getting chased is fun, we run into map gen issues where you get a haddonfield with 2 pallets so your getting chased the whole game just turns into hold w into a corner. it is a massive game design flaw imo that you have to waste perk slots as the only counter to an easy tie/win strategy.
although i should mention it isnt a reason to dc and i do still try to achieve as much time waste as possible, just sucks when the game makes you defenseless
@@ScottJundstill sucks to get ran out of your full meme build just to counter one 50% strategy regardless, nic cage build just doesnt feel the same when i cant laugh at other people failing skill checks :(
Only watched a portion so far, but this sort of mentality from survivors is partially what drove me away from the game. I wanna play for fun, too. People just killing themselves on first hook literally just sucks all the fun out of the match. :(
@@leonkennedy6206 That's honestly what it feels like sometimes. Coming from someone who was a pre-buff nemesis main. I just wanted to be big scary zombie man and chase people. :( I also dabbled in PH and Trapper as secondaries since I enjoy a bit of challenge, but people are ruthless about this death on hook stuff.
Same. I returned after a break from DBD and the first match I played had the survivors instantly giving up. Completely killed any motivation to play again
The second comment talking about getting hardcore tunneled immediately is something i relate to, and what he means is that we shouldn't have to always rely on second chance perks, especially if we're trying a specific build for healing, doing gens, etc.. I for one suck at chases most of the time, and i tend to focus on bringing gen or healing builds because 1) people never do gens 2) people never heal enough or 3) the killer is using a build to make one of those two things much harder. If I'm first to go every damn time for whatever reason multiple times when im using those builds, im not going to have fun. Because the moment i decide to bring a chase build, im not getting chased enough/still getting my ass beat from chases and my teammates arent doing gens or healing Now imagine dealing with that struggle on top of the go next problem, we're just constantly wasting our time
Still sounds like a problem that can be fixed by just getting better. If you’re constantly the weak link because by your admittance you simply aren’t good at chase, then you just need to get better at chase. Once you aren’t going down in a reasonable time most killers won’t want to spend a minute + chasing when they could probably down someone else easier. Only way you’re going to get better in chase is to be chased. As for the whole “being chased while my teammates do nothing” I mean, that’s always going to be an issue if the majority of survivors aren’t good players. Nothing anyone can do about that except hope they learn to play the game. No HUD UI or base kit perk or free toolbox is going to give any survivor a better game sense. That’s up for them to work on
I get that struggle since I played both survivor and killer, but I also saw it from the other side. As a survivor, it had been years since I could run a silly perk loadout and just have fun in a match. If you aren't running all meta second chance perks you'll get tunneled out and die immediately. It's boring to own consistently with the same overpowered perks, and it's boring to lose anytime you try something different. But from the killer perspective, I don't have a chance in a fair match against survivors running meta builds. Their perks basically punish me for hooking, but if I do have to hook instead of slugging, I'm punished for not tunnelling. You may not be running a meta build, but I can't see your perks. For all I know the instant I lose sight of you there are a half dozen perks and three items in the game that can have you healed up in less than 30 seconds. It's boring to tunneled and slug everyone and it's boring to lose every single match trying not to tunnel. That's why I just stopped playing and honestly I'm way happier that way.
@@HoneyDog Part of the problem is that "just getting better" is one of the most mind-numbingly tedious and frustrating experiences in DbD. Getting chase practice in 10-15 second increments because you suck at chase isn't very productive when if you aren't just immediately going next, a match is 10-15 *minutes* instead, plus maybe another five more between queue and loading times. That's even without factoring in that it's so difficult to tell if what you're doing is actually working; there's no way to tell if a Killer finds you because of a perk, a lucky guess, or because they heard you breathing. Then there's the constant lag issues DbD has: you can frame-perfect vault or drop a pallet and still get hit because of de-sync from you, the Killer, both, or hell sometimes *neither* because sometimes the servers just decided to crap out on their own and there's no real way to tell if you did something wrong, or you failed the knowledge check for some perk, or a secret third thing. The fact that this game has a several hundred hour minimum competency expectation is absurd. It makes being a new player near impossible, and when the solo queue experience is so miserable right now, it's a few hundred hours of the game being a frankly shitty experience to get the practice needed to actually engage with it.
I totally agree. There are over 100 different perks, but I'm required to use stuff I don't like. If I don't run a meta perk, I lose? How's that fun for anyone? It's precisely this Comp brain BS that killed old Dead hard, Nerfed item charge amounts, and will probably ruin anything half decent for survivors in the future.
@@Orangebacon1-v2y I definitely get that. Having played a lot of For Honor that game is basically the same. It's been out for so long and so much of the community is dedicated long time players. Trying to get into that game now is like trying to break down a wall with your fists. There is no choice but to basically get pummeled for hundreds of hours until you've memorized all 36 characters full movesets and learned how to make 300ms reactions. But when you get good at it then it feels great. Same thing with DbD really, or at least it was when I played. Do I think it should be like that? No, certainly not. But I'm not the devs and I don't make the game and updates. I digress though, it is hard to make a asymmetrical 1v4 game like DbD non-competitive. Either way the annoying truth is that there's only one way to get better at these kinds of games, and that's just constantly playing, even if most of your matches are losses.
Fun fact: BHVR adressing camping and tunneling Also BHVR: Nerfing shit ton of maps to little pockets with huge dead zones or completely useless tiles, where tunneling out survivors is done very easily (Coldwind maps, Haddonfield, Forgotten Ruins, Nostromo, Sanctum of Wraith, Temple of Purgation) while keeping overtuned killers/add-ons untouched
It's to the point where Backwater Swamp is unironically one of the better maps in the game for survivors since it hasn't yet been infected by the recent bhvr curse of dog shit map resources.
@@usedsocks288lmao this. You know it's bad when I don't mind getting Grim Pantry too much. Not because it's even close to being good, but because it's at least not as garbage as Yamaoka, Coldwind or Borgo maps or Haddonfield, Greenville and Midwich
Maps are too small, stealth isnt strong enough, heals got nerfed, and A and S tier killers have basekits that are too strong. Because of these issues, its too easy to get stuck in a loop where the killer can down and hook someone before the previously hooked person can fully reset, so theres no time to get gens done.
@@liabilitylinda3501ngl I prefer Garden of Joy and the most survivor sided maps in the game than play a minute in swamp, that map is legit the ugliest map and hardest map to bare in terms of visuals i have ever seen in a online video game, until that map remains in the game unchanged I shall remain as the biggest hater
I usually agree with Scott, but this time I couldn’t disagree more. While I agree that eliminating the dc penalty would help lessen the effect of players quitting. The truth is, you can’t force players to have fun. This is issue is as simple as that. If a person has purchased the game and isn’t having fun but getting upset instead, I would rather that they take care of themselves and leave the match, than suffer for me. I don’t think it’s “entitled” for a player to “go next” I believe it’s far more entitled for us to expect that these players should bend over backwards to please the rest of us. I’ve played this game since 2019. I’m a father, I work 60-80 hours a week, I’m lucky if I ever find 30 minutes to play. I will usually suffer through a difficult game to benefit my team. but I have also had tough days where I need to blow off steam, and I hop into a game only to get bullied/tunneled. I play games with the intention of having fun, if I’m having a tough day I’m not going to stick around and suffer through it. I’m heading to my next game and I fully expect anyone else to do the same if they are suffering similarly. So when I see a player DC, I don’t get upset because I understand what they’re likely dealing with. I under that this is frustrating for a lot of us. But if we can’t empathize with these players, then this conversation won’t go anywhere. Thanks for the videos, Scott.
Sure, that's fine. They can leave the match and give their team a bot. But they never do. They have to cheat the system to avoid punishment, which makes it scummy.
@@ScottJund Take away that "punishment" then and problem solved. it's not "scummy" at all, Nobody wants to be stuck in timeout for 20 minutes because they're too irritated to keep playing.
@@MementoMori7777I can’t comprehend the logic here. If they’re too irritated to play, what does a 20 minute matchmaking ban mean to them? They need to take a break and calm down lol.
Damn, left a fat comment on the other vid after this one came out, lol. EDIT: Anyone else hate when the "fix" for something is a perk? I'm a lot happier with something like in built BT for anti-tunnel than being told to run a perk for slug and tunnel every match, just in case
I will NOT accept perks as solutions to base problems in DBD, for 3 reasons. 1. The perks become completely useless when the meta shifts (some better some worse, look at the book breaking one). 2. To use them, you have to take off a fun or interesting perk from your usual build, which is plain dumb. Excusable, sure, the other side has to run at least one slowdown these days, but I'd love a solution that made it where neither side had to. 3. Often, in solo que, no comms means you can't even effectively use the perks. How am I supposed to use shoulder on Nancy if Steve has already unhooked her before I get there? I can't tell Steve to wait, I'm solo. Or how do I tell my team not to trade yet, I have reassurance? I can't. They rush hook and all go down. These bandaids must stop. We need real solutions, short of an operation health this will not recover. Bhvr will either cave, or a lot of people will leave. Also, the issue with skull merchant was never her strength. I know she's weak now. Has been for awhile. I don't go next against her because of that, I go next because her entire design is flawed and she needs a full rework. That is the minimum that will fix this, not adjustments. She represents the very worst of bhvrs designs: the archetype that mindlessly plops her power down and gets value. She's not the only offender, and not the worst now, but it's still about the principle. Is it really that serious, you might ask? To me, yes. I love DBD. I have for years. Even when all that's left is bots, I will be playing. Ill find some way to, even after the servers shut down. I have too many precious memories in DBD. But it needs help, bad. Its been sick for a long time.
This comment is so funny and shows you have no idea what you're talking about. Since her nerf, Skull Merchant is practically required to actually use the change rotation feature to actually land scans, assuming the Survivors try even a little bit. She is very weak now, but the nerf did encourange active power useage and punish passive power ussage
@@vibrantoucan8890 Like I said, it doesn't matter what adjustments they do or how weak they make her. She needs a full rework before I, or the community, will ever accept her. The fact you couldn't comprehend that on the first read tells me you are the one who doesn't understand what they're talking about, or at least the mindset of the average player.
@@izzywn5802 Your complaint was literally that she can mindlessly plop her power down and get value. I explained to you why that wasn''t the case. Since you didn't bring any counterarguments, I can only assume your position is that they removed her mindless playstyle, but they didn't change her enough from when she used to have it and therefore you go next against her? To protest a playstyle that isn't present on her anymore? Do you not see how silly you sound?
@@vibrantoucan8890 Your reading comprehension needs work. Yet again, and this time I will outline it for you: She needs a full rework before I or the community will accept her. It makes no difference that they "fixed" her, and she now requires more skill to use. Her PERCEPTION will not change until they completely rework her. The mechanics make no difference, we are trying to fix the publics perception and opinion. The only way to do that is to change her very nature.
Where is the line drawn between entitlement and being justified? It seems like everyone has a different take on this. There are those games where the killer has three downs before a single gen is close to being done. You are the only one doing gens and the gen you're doing has been hit by pain res three times and pop twice. The odds of you winning that aren't very high in solo queue. I kind of get why people give up in games like that. Games like that account for at least half of my matches where someone gives up.
Your last point about empathy really hit the nail on the head. For a game about teamwork, it seems to me most people don't care about everyone else or just has a rather negative view about the other players in the game. I quit DBD like before Singularity released and people were becoming unbearable during Solo Q. I was trying my best to be the most respectful and helpful teammate I can be, sometimes even sacrificing myself for others hoping others would do the same on the next game or so, but people were just throwing. Not playing badly, just literally attempting to sabotage the game for everyone else, there was no sense of trust or cooperation. People just easily give up at the slightest inconvenience and want everything to go perfectly, and they would think it would happen on the next game. I miss good games in where the survivors and killers were on a back and forth situation where anything can go either way. Everyone was trying their best, nobody was giving up, attempting to do whatever the most they can, even being synergistic and cooperative during crucial moments even though we could only communicate through limited gestures and movements. The challenges and efforts put into that match was fun regardless if we overcame it or we simply fell short, that to me is the peak fun of DBD.
The sad thing is that this is not a DBD problem, but an online pvp gaming problem--most people are not suited to play online games, but they want to convince themselves they think they are...and as soon as they run into things in the game they don't like, they opt to not play the game/die go next/blame the devs/blame their teammates. These kinds of people are a large part of every online gaming community and the one thing they all have in common is that everything is the fault of any aspect of the game (other players, devs) and not because of themselves Yes, all games are imperfect Yes, many developers are unable to fix and balance things quickly or adequately able to communicate with their player base Yes, there are people who intentionally try to ruin the online gaming experience But with that said, most people are simply not built to play online pvp games and will always come up with anything except for changing their mindset with how they approach the game they're playing. These very same people want to optimize their play and use the best things the game offers them, but they have a problem that other people are doing the same. They're sweating, but they complain about other players sweating.
I've been noticing this problem aswell and I totally agree with your comment. In basically every multiplayer game it's never the players fault (even if it obviously is) and some people seem to be so delusional that they think they are never wrong ever. I think this also ties into the whole entitlement issue that is especially bad in dbd. Even if the game were to be perfectly balanced I still think people would moan about "unfun" strategies.
As a killer main myself, i sometimes wonder why bhvr has made a 3 kill game the win condition. Ive always though incentivising a 2 kill game as a win would make more sense. This way the majority of the players, including the killer, will win an average game. Like if 3 surviors die on average of course the player base will be angry and toxic most of the time and the killer is incentivized to make this happen because they’re pressured to get at least 3 kills
Its how it was back in the day till I believe 2022. I think it was around chapter 6.1 when they changed direction, could be wrong. But ill def say the game has gotten way more annoying for survivor since then in my experience.
@snewp_e2139 that's understandable from a competitive thought process but can't blame survivors for being burnt out when they are expected to lose most of their games but maybe have a couple "fun" 30-50 seconds chases. For me I can last pretty dam long in chase, but when against I'm playing guarenteed hit killers, then no one does gens it sucks the fun out.
It's not that killers are pressured to get a 3k, they just want to get it. The problem is BHVR not balancing the game around 50/50 and then people wonder why survivors are so willing to go next when they are supposed to lose the majority of their matches by design.
It's kinda what happens when a game relies on mtx so much 😬 People spend so much on fucking cosmetics and DLC that 1. they aren't buying other games and 2. get sunk cost fallacy issues and refuse to stop playing this one
Just had a game last night where a survivor killed themselves at 1 gen against a legion who barely used power and had 3 hooks. Legion ended up winning by slugging the 3 v 1. Its actually unreal
@@Kikrafisthe killer is incompetent enough to get more than 3 hooks with a legion. If your team suddenly collapses because they decide to slug you’re dogshit.
the first comment is mine and i stand by it, even if it seems harsh. i like watching your videos about how you try to deep dive on another problem with DBD and its community. but bro, at this point i dont care about this game, and clearly others dont either. i get on to play after work and if im not having fun, i go next or play a different game. it really does just boil down to that.
I had a Doctor bringing me to RPD, there was this Aestri that went down at 5 gens and attempted to kill herself on hook. Then we managed to pop like 3 gens and what does the Doctor do? He downs all of us and slug us to bleed out. So like, someone gives up instantly and the rest of us get punished for it??? Dude was nodding and spam shocking. The killers are on some shit these days, i hadn't played in weeks, now I'm not gonna play for weeks again. Thank god for Marvel Rivals.
You had one shitty killer and all killer players are now awful? This Us vs Them shit is awful as fuck and so annoying. There's shitty players on both sides.
@@GenetMJF This is what you get from my comment? Go cry about "Us vs them" elsewhere, I didn't say every killer ever is on their period. You can't deny it's a large chunk of killers these days making the game miserable to play. I play killer for the most part btw, I was doing my survivor event tome challenges last night and it felt like every game the killer I had was in a mood. Artist, Doctor, Nemesis. If it offends you I say killers are on some shit, idk what to tell you.
Human beings with morals: Darn, a 3v1. Better end it quickly so we can all move on. Human beings with flexible morals: Yes, a 3v1. Easy win for me! Killer mains: 3v1 means 3 more victims for me to torment and bleed out! Killer mains deserve *NOTHING*.
You should always have 1 anti tunnel perk. For a lot of killers it’s just to there advantage to tunnel. If you half decent with some anti tunnel perks the killer usually loses
Oh, totally agree with that then. And as a killer, I shouldn't have to bring anti heal or gen regression perks either. Basekit ruin and sloppy am I right?!
@@morbidxecutionr1861 tbf if you’re survivor and don’t have anti tunnel and the killer tunnels you, you’re gonna die. If you’re killer (atleast a good killer with decent skill) you don’t need to bring regression or healing perks and can still win.. also it is annoying that it feels mandatory that one perk slot has to be anti tunnel and you can’t really run fun or diverse builds because you’ll just get tunneled every game. Killer main btw don’t cook me.
@@buraaqwasti7729if you’re a killer main then you know if you don’t run 1 or 2 perks for Gen slow down gens will fly the same should be said we can’t run fun or diverse builds for the same reason, do there shouldn’t b any arguing about it killer main
ngl ppl going next is the most miserable thing in this game right now. Like it's such a self-centered mindset in a game where we used to make fun of how altruistic people used to play. like altruism is still really common in games you're actually allowed to play in but it feels like such a big difference to where entire teams used to collapse to save one guy vs one guy just leaving everyone to play a worthless non-game because they're a little bored of playing against a certain killer.
Having bots in the game makes sense because they weren't designed as replacement for ppl that don't wanna play, but for ppl that actually disconnect. So one person's bad wifi doesn't mean the game is ruined for everyone. But the bots love to run edge map and just stand there. I've seen bots run into more shit than JRM and bots with Afk crows. Would be nice if they fixed them
32:44 the hypocrisy of saying this to survivor players, while the content creation space has actively preached at killer players for years about “ignoring the survivor rulebook”, “play for your own fun”, “entitled survivors” is rich. Calling someone a survivor main has been an offhand way to invalidate people’s experiences and opinions for years now. Killers are at the peak of sweaty, toxic, selfish gameplay behavior lately, and this is the result. Stop pandering to killer players who’s so much. The experience of survivor mains matters to. Most dbd creators who play consistently almost exclusively play killer or both pretty evenly, why do you think that is? Because survivor exclusively is unfun, and is considered an invalid way of experiencing the game, with invalid opinions and complaints by the community. FIX SURVIVOR.
What I can't wrap my head around is the 'go next' mentality for longer than like... a single match. And it's not just Dead By Daylight, it's ANY competitive game. I just can't fathom the necessity for these people to need to win every single time. It's a competitive game! By its very nature SOMEONE has to lose. Even if YOU are the one who is losing... Who cares? Like, legitimately, you're not even going to remember that match come tomorrow yet you're so incessantly hard-focused on the impossibility of winning all your matches you just immediately give up the second you experience any adversity? How do these people make it through life even lol EDIT: Unironically I think the solution is different game modes. Someone self-kills on hook in 2v8 it's a lot less impactful to the rest of the game. Or hell just implement some arcade lobbies where you can tweak values akin to Overwatch. Just let the 'go next' players go do anything else for a week while also tapping that weird DBD addiction since they're unable to find another, more enjoyable game to play.
@@user-fe3sx2hz4d dude if I get slugged for 5-minutes it's not "gg go next" it's "sweet, I got time to get my bio break out of the way". Like, I dunno what to tell you man - pull up Netflix on the side or something. Also what does this have to do with killing yourself on first hook?
In other games there is an actual punishment, removing points from your rank for example or muting you for X matches, on DBD there is not a real punishment
@@user-fe3sx2hz4dIt's funny when people say this in response to people intentionally going down and letting themselves self end on hook. Showing they didn't actually listen to what's being talked about.
Is the actual solution to display the MMR rating publicly or at least to yourself? Think about it, you're working for an invisible system with zero tangible reward implementations, this circumvents the ranked discussion (26:31) while also keeping the current SBMM system in the game which the devs will refuse to ever overhaul. My understanding is that Scott's belief of going next stems from veteran player burnout or general burnout. I believe the root cause for burnout is trying to play utilizing a system that reinforces "sweaty" behavior intrinsically at the medium to higher levels of the competitor pool through an ineffectual matchmaking approach that both fails as a marker of player skill and falsely denotes what the game's inherent win objectives should be. I believe having even just the number of MMR available to view would immediately shift players' playstyles both away and toward toxic strategies in a function that makes sense. Sweaty players will play until it is maxed, in which they will discontinue that playstyle after having reached the upper limit of the game's matchmaking pool. Simultaneously, players who want to play casually will actively see how their in-match performance affects their matchmaking, possibly altering their perceptions of what it means to win or remain at their current level. This evens out the approach in the mindsets of all players before a match begins, and those who want to continuously improve or stay at the highest possible MMR will have something tangible to work toward rather than only win-streak goals.
@@flyingdutchman8399 really? I definitely get those day 1 megs and dwights throwing my matches but that’s not their fault. it’s mainly the high prestige players i see just cleansing dull totems to intentionally waste time and throw the game, or hiding all match, or going next on hook i don’t know why
Scott denying the fact that this game is heavily killer sided now is hillarious. When I play solo Q killers have a kill rate of about 80-90%. When I play swf, they only have like 5-50% (depending on the skill level of my friends - full squad sweatlords vs chilled duoing). Most of the DC happens in solo Q games. Surprise surprise.
This game isn’t that much killer side tough literally you talk about solo q but even there solo q alway get buff without forgetting in hight mmr u have to play strong killer
Also the game is meant to be killer side just like Friday the 13 the main role literally is killer and even with tsht survivor still got a shit ton of buff and basekit stuff
@@Dildo-pd4lybad argument with Friday the 13th because in that game you only get a chance at becoming killer so it makes more sense to be geared toward that
@@ScottJund You are talking about average numbers. Not about the variance within the numbers. In fact solo q is just unplayable anymore for the most time. The argument with "mimimi devs have adressed camping and tunneling now you get basekit bt and off the record (which can be outplayed by instant hit after unhook), improved hud and useless anticamp mechanic which is not shown on the hud" is not valid since survivors in general got nerfed so much (maps, items, gen times, perks like dh, ds, mft, boons) that those little improvements for solo q are way overcompensated by the nerfs. To play around these nerfs requires team work coordination level of a good swf which can rarely be seen in solo q. It's just a fact. Even experienced survivors struggle to survive for more than 20 seconds on such bullshit maps like rancid abbotoir and then there are such overtuned killers like buffed nowhere to hide nurse or no life no friends blights which snowball the matches right from the beginning. No wonder so many people dc or give up that early.
It’s really as simple as making a ranked queue, casual players will mostly play casual and the sweats will flock to ranked and just exponentially increase the ban timer for leaving a ranked game
Call it entitlement or not but I usually “Go next” when I’m playing against a super sweaty Nurse or Blight, a killer who just focuses me and doesn’t let me play the game IE: tunneling, only chasing me, standing near hook but not trigging a face camp meter, and lastly slugging. If I queue up for a game and I’m spending more time on hook or slugged than actually playing the game it’s not a fun experience, that’s why I don’t stream DBD anymore and moved on to other games
8:14 I swear if these people had any influence in the game's changes, they'd make it so that if you go into a game as SM, the game instantly ends and the SM player gets doxxed
Personal opinion is that saying Bhavior has "added things to combat tunneling, camping, etc." doesn't help, because you never know what killer it's going to be so you have to prepare by guarding blindly against all shitty potential strategies? So OtR, DS, DH, and exhaustion perk? In order to block against just general strats, not abilities, you have to dedicate every perk slot blindly and even then your best bet vs. a tunneling killer is you have to get an extra hit on me because of DS. Have killers who camp and tunnel take a fat blood point penalty for tunneling (75%) and an ability for survivor to reslot one perk while on 2nd hook if they've been hooked or tunneled ( so they can retroactively add a anti-tunneling perk).
Penalizing bp doesn't do much when people have hundreds of copies of add-ons for their killer and they can still get bp through archives, dailies, weekly box in the store, etc. You wouldn't be punishing people that much at all. Anyway, if you say killers who tunnel and camp get no bp, what do you think is going to happen when they can't afford add-ons? Not play nice, they're going to tunnel harder to win and then get the add-ons later after they do their dailies and all. Bp is pretty worthless. And people will always play how they want to play.
Going next isn’t a problem when it’s completely valid. There are games where the killers playstyle is just completely boring and your team is VERY inefficient so losing is quite literally the only option you have. So instead of making myself suffer with an already boring game and weak team I’ll just save myself the time and go next. Going next at the sight of a killer is insane no matter what.
i dont believe any of those exist anymore. Old Legion, chess merchant, condemn sadako - they're all gone. now you just have standard tunneling/camping etc
@@ScottJundokay Scott- and I have two hours to play the game on a good day. I am not that competitive. I am playing to have fun- I immediately know that isn't happening when clown is hard tunneling default meg at 5 gens
When a killer doesn't care about your fun - you go king, such a chad, he's so right about that. When your surv teammate doesn't care about your fun - so selfish, this is what's wrong with dbd, let me make 5 videos on this
It is and I do. The original comment was meant to be a half-joke type of thing, since I can't recall you ever openly defending selfish killer play styles. I mostly play soloq and I absolutely hate it when people DC, but it still annoys me that you use the label "psychopathic lack of empathy" on DCing survivors when killers constantly bring builds that stomp 99% of survivor teams. No, it's not people who played overbuffed thrill of the hunt, or play nurse with 4 slowdowns, or go on a 2000+ killer streak that lack empathy, the dcing survivors are the real selfish assholes
@@vexxed6851 what even is this argument? why should your opponent care about your fun in an online pvp game? What are you saying? Obviously it is different on the survivor side because you are playing a team game. The equivalent of killers not caring about the survivors fun would be survivors not caring about the killers fun? I swear I am losing braincells reading some of these replies
@@loxurloxurs5517 "Why should your opponent care about your fun in an online pvp game?" Because people will refuse to play with them-- ie, DC or AFK. Why should your allies care about your fun in an online pvp game? Because they're "supposed to?"
I think think BHVR should put up a poll or something on twitter or whatever DBD website they use and ASK survivors what's the deal and what they would like to see that fixes it? Maybe even have a live stream and just have a cordial, good faith conversation. No insults, no "salty survivor" this or "entitlement" that. Ask the question, look for the biggest gripes and address them as best they can. It won't fix everything, but it'll address something and it'll build a bit of good faith within the community.
They have the player satisfaction survey open on their website right now. Not sure how long they're accepting responses. I think they do the survey more than once per year, but at least annually
@KimPins I've never heard anything about that. I'm guessing a lot of people haven't either. So while this is good, I think posting something now, while this Go Next Epidemic is hot, might do the game better. Hell, post the concern and question on the website too. Having a customer satisfaction survey is nice, but I don't think it's going to get a lot of people to take the initiative like BHVR putting out that they're trying to address this particular issue, you know? As a person who's had to do satisfaction surveys, they work best when you go around CONSTANTLY TELLING people to use them for the major issue currently at play, not just making one and leaving it there.
Balancing the game around 50/50 would make a drastic impact. When one side is expected to be fine with losing the majority of their matches it's not surprising that so many survivors are willing to go next.
This is the ideal situation But they also add basekit mori with EVERYONE'S disaproval and made the twins rework (ptb) instead of asking "hey is this good?" Only to scrap it because of how everyone hated it for good reason.
2:29 this is exactly the problem. If the solution ti toxic gameplay is "well, just run meta perks", why even let survivors choose their perks? Why give survivors the option of making fun builds if just attempting to have fun automatically means losing. Its your fault for trying to have fun, you should have been trying to wim like theres money on the line every time! And when every survivor is following this advice, all using only perks so strong even playing toxic doesnt beat it, hiw the hell can a killer beat those builds by playing fair? How can anyone whi doesn't run Nurse or Blight beat a SWF with meta builds who can all unhook themselves, pick themselves off the ground, heal themselves or each other faster than it takes to chase, and have endurance constantly? What else can a killer do but play even more toxic, especially if there is one weak link survivor who joined solo que with trying to use a fun build? He might be the only kill they get this round.
Yeah, i try not to go next in regular queue. But if i get one after work for a couple games for the event and I just want to go for some builds that go with silly snowman plays, but the killer just wants to either tunnel one guy out with their meta build and S tier killer. I aint sticking around. I actually dont think I've seen one killer have fun with the snowmen or anything. Most game is straight to business, and tons of blights, nurses and spirits.
@@Hako_wareAs a killer main only reasons I try harder in this snowman event is either blood points or because Snowmen are body blocking me. Or reveal my location when I just start. Survivors also are being sweaty I am not enjoying seeing how many people complain about killers without also saying how many survivors are still being ultra sweats in the event. All I have to do is match their energy but it's the killers fault for doing their job lol
@@plaguefellow4956 I main killer. Far more survivors up for a laugh than killers. I can quite often 2 hook every survivor before killing them and still win. I cant imagine having to try hard because a snowman blocked me and I can't figure out I can press q, or prentend a survivor somehow now suddenly has a GPS tracker because a snowman went off. Its an event, go to the normal queue if you cant switch off the need to get a 4k without exception.
ill put this extremely simply: if you can ONLY have fun by bringing very specific perks (as in you won't have fun if you bring anything else), then you do not fundamentally enjoy DbD as it is, and it would be very unhealthy to play it for longer periods of time consistently.
@namjeff1419 that's exactly why I stopped playing DBD. Because "the way it is" is trash. It is the absolute worst balanced game I have ever played. Most people still playing are people who know it's crap but hope it gets better because it used to be a lot of fun and such a unique experience that unfortunately doesn't really have a decent alternative in all of gaming. The rest are people who can only feel pleasure from a sense of superiority and mindlessly defend anything they excel slightly at as if criticism of the game were a personal attack on them.
"I don't understand why no one has a shred of empathy in this game anymore" That's the fun part, no one ever had. I can remember a lot of DBD youtubers throwing as many "TOXIC" in the title of their video as they possibly could, killer or survivor, and have 0 care about the game's health. And that's because they just could, like all players. You can't directly control that. Talking to the community is just a patchwork, and it can make some (small) changes for those who are reached. But the real solution needs to come from the whole development team. Sadly, you can't do their work for them.
Kinda glad this video was suggested to me on my TH-cam page, for the last week of playing dbd and I cannot exaggerate this enough.... EVERY SINGLE GAME of dbd that I've played there's been at least 1 person "going next" whether it's due to them being found first or going down to quickly or they just don't like the killer we got paired up against.... I can't express how frustrating it is to hear that sound effect go off when someone leaves every single game over and over again when you just wanna play a full match and that's if they aren't the other version of "going next" by killing themselves on hook as soon as the game begins.... I need a break from this, btw this is just me venting thank you for the time you made putting this video together.
Killers give up just as often and dc anytime you actually have a chance to win also they can dodge lobbies with 4 man flashlight for example but if you allowed that for survivor nobody would ever get a blight or nurse queue
I am not sure why killers are allowed to see survivor items before the match starts, but the other way around would be terrible. A killer could only make their perks sweatier or more chill or just put on lightborn/franklin's demise, but survivors could just tailor their perks and also map offering to effectively counter the killer and make sure their perks are always useful against any killer they face.
I do hate that the items can be seen. The killer should know you are bringing something but not what. However its a strat you can use. Like when the totem build was so popular I would just hold a map and watch as killer after killer dodges the lobby until we got one not running it and I would switch to a med kit or something. But it is like that. Keep getting rekt by totems? Switch to a map/totem build and watch as you never face a totem build (outside noed) again since the killer will always dodge the lobby if they see it.
I just want a killer ban system because that would solve the subjective fun argument, but at the same time increase the ban time on dc's/ suicide timer for each killer you ban as a survivor queue
I also wanted to say back in the day most of the killers were bearable, and now there are too many killers for the devs to balance/make actually be fun to play against. So I think survivor should have killer ban system to at least weed out their unfun killers
@ that would kill the game if u have people being able to be like “ I hate this this and this killer so I won’t play against them” and then u have some killers who can’t load into a match since everyone complains about them
@Tyekiller115 well if there is enough people who ban a killer enough times to where they can't play there might actually be a problem with that specific killer
I'm sorry but this is so dumb as a community to view things this way. Over the past few years killers have started not caring about the fun of "entitled survivors", who don't like getting slugged, tunneled or playing against an annoying playstyle. People are entitled to have fun, and in most matches other players make that hard if not impossible. This is the result of killer players "not following the survivor rulebook" over the last year or so. This is not survivor players all of a sudden being selfish babies. Most killer players have been selfish babies for a few years now, and this behavior has hit a fever pitch over the last year. This game is ass as survivor rn. I find it very hard to have fun on survivor over the last few months, it's never been this unfun. I've played almost since launch.
That’s your problem you’ve been playing this same repetitive ass game since launch. Eventually the game will no longer be fun or enjoyable and that’s ok but it’s on you to realize that and take a break or quit and play something else.
For years I've had to see killer mains repeat the adage, "I'm not responsible for anyone else's fun, I'm going to play how I want" as an excuse to sweat their asses off and eliminate someone at 5 gens and make their time completely miserable anyway, but *now* empathy is suddenly a talking point, lol. Not saying the go next mentality is right, but it's just funny how that works.
One of these is just playing the game as intended, the other is actively sabotaging everyone else's fun with no benefit for yourself that wouldn't be achieved by just not playing DBD.
@@MrBlueWaooWaoo I'd argue that going out of your way to tunnel someone out at 5 gens is actively sabotaging that person's fun, too. I'm just kind of over the whole "well it's in the game so it's okay" excuse, especially when map offerings are part of the game and as much as I enjoy Scott's content, he literally used to go next at the sight of certain map offerings. Survivors used to be able to hold killers hostage in matches back when there was no EGC. Just because something's in the game doesn't make it inherently okay to just dump on someone else's experience no matter which side of the community you're on, that's the whole point I'm trying to make about having empathy.
@@DawnIgnitedYou assume that being tunneled is inherently unfun. I love being tunneled because killer interaction is really all I want in the game. There are also in game mechanics and perks that directly nerf tunneling. What game are you playing?
Green Medkit most definately needed a nerf but Behaviour being them gutted all healing instead. Removeing the +50% from the green was all that was needed.
I agree with you Scott, but I remember a time when you had the POV where because we bought the game, we should be able to do whatever we want, regardless if you’re not making it fun for other players.
@ no definitely not a gotcha moment, sorry if it came across that way. I meant it more as a “what changed?” And “why” kind of statement. I didn’t make that clear; my mistake.
You know, realistically, I've just given up on the whole trying to solve this idea because you can't fix entitlement without rebuilding from the foundation up it's a learned behavior. No matter how many ideas you propose or fixes you come up with people will always have This idea that they are entitled to be able to play the way they want without someone who's not in their position having any input.
@@stevenobrien7686I fully agree, actually. I would say this epidemic is more on the survivor end atm because of the nature of how matches play out, but I do think the real cancer in the community is the entitlement of both ends of the game. That, combined with the us vs. them nature of DBD kind of results in this extremely muddy discussion. Everyone airing grievances, however related or unrelated, etc. etc. all advocating for their pet issues. This shit happens in other games but the fact that there are uneven “sides” with wildly different gameplay actually makes it a little messed up on the DBD end. Idk what you can even do about it, this game is like an examination into how early human wars occurred
@@stevenobrien7686 its just more pronounced on the survivor side because in 95% of matches, the killer is indeed the power role by a large margin. so they tend to hold the power to make someones game miserable compared to how often survivor groups get to do the same thing
Just get rid of DC penalties so people are less incentivized to kill themselves on hook to avoid the penalty and will instead just DC right away and have a bot take their place. That way you at least get to play the match out instead of being down a man that intentionally killed themselves.
I don’t really think the folks complaining about skull merchant still are misinformed. I think it’s more that they want to punish the people who play her at all because of how she used to be and want to punish BHVR for making her that way in the first place. The people commenting on your videos are certainly up to date on changes.
This. It's about punishing the player for playing that killer. SM still holds that stigma to her. People know she's different now, but she is still SM. Without a complete rework, like basically making a new killer, people will always hate her and treat her this way.
Making the "Go Next Strategy" only a player issue is a bit shortsighted and kinda makes the entitlement question irrelevant because at this point it comes to subjective viewpoints. Both parties are in these cases entitled. Behaviour can definetely reduce the frustration for survivors by actually not only making "fair play" more rewarding for the killer but by actually punishing "toxic" strategies not only making it less attractive. One quick fix for "Go Next" leavers would be to give the remaining survivors a significant bonus to repair speed and other actions to compensate for the loss. That way it would stay more competetive. You could also give unique abilities to survivors that only activate if someone dies early like 50% self-care speed or unbreakable or DS to the rest. That would punish early game tunneling and give compensation to the other survivors. Is this the perfect solution? No, but it's definetely tweakable and better than what we have. If you completely disagree, than in my opinion you are as entitled as the people that go next, since you don't want to solve the problem by giving survivors something, you simply want to point fingers.
The issue with giving the remaining Survivors compensation buffs is that it potentially gives the leavers more justification. It would have to be something that's *inarguably* worse than having a 4th teammate, so things like unbreakable/DS no, a repair speed bonus I think would be better.
Thé issue there is that if the mechanic is any kind of useful or good then you’ll run into issues where players are gonna start letting people die on first hook just so they can get the bonus
Im sorry but saying “if you disagree with my solution then you’re entitled” is *psychopathic*. You CANNOT fix this issue of entitlement no matter what happens. The best way to discourage this behavior is incentives. Buffing survivors if someone dies too early, while genius on paper, would be way too difficult to balance and would skewer with matches even in the event that survivors DONT EVEN GIVE UP EARLY. There are already so many measures put in place for tunneling, adding more stuff would completely kill the viability of that strategy and will just lead to more slugging/camping.
I just think it’s a particularly difficult bandaid fix because it’s hard to determine the point in a match that a kill becomes a kill, or if it was purposeful on the side of the survivor. Not every survivor who gives up does it at first hook. By the nature of the game I also personally just don’t think giving either side random buffs as a “fix” is a good way of going about things, like adding random haste to killers behavior doesn’t know how to change. As sad as it is I think a forfeit system would be a good starting point whilst the devs try and figure out a better idea. If someone leaves or dies early, the survivors could start a vote to forfeit the match. Dunno what voting majority would be but imagine it would help eliminate a lot of the downtime in matches that survivors are fairly sure they won’t win. Would prevent being slugged and bled to death as a team, too.
The one that goes next is 4x more entitled and entitled in a far petier way. The people who don't go next aren't really entitled for expecting people to try to play the game they queued up for. On the other hand the person who goes next thinks the games wronged them and they are more important than the other 4 people. Simple as that.
I mean its a complete failure of game design if people feel they are locked into an inevitable death/loss that is assured not to be fun. well designed games dont ask you to keep playing when it isnt fun anymore, and if they do like a fighting game thats because you have full agency to prevent/escape the situation.
Tunneling would be more fun to face if it didn't destroy your end of the game score and 50/50 leave you dead while everyone else escapes. It might feel nice once in a while to get everyone out, but when it's almost every game that you're looping the killer for 5+ gens, getting no other points than chase points, and then dying... it gets pretty repetitive. Not saying every game is like that, but when it is... it hurts the soul.
I would trade long chases over bloodpoints every game if I could. Chases are the only reason I play DBD (it's the most strategic part). If you want bloodpoints, you can go to BP farming servers (like I have) and get 200,000 BP every game. BP means nothing when I'm playing a game for fun.
thats the thing though, people have to reevaluate their measures of success in the game. IMO if you have long chases as survivor (and hopefully not throwing every god pallet), you're doing good. even if you get tunneled to death, as long as your other three teammates escape then you did your job just fine.
i agree with you in alot of ways, but when it comes to anti tunneling/camping things, or more information, that kind of thing shouldve been added long ago, its nice to finally have it but there are so many things that they shouldve worked on agers ago but behaviours focus is in the wrong spot in alot of ways, the fact that the mobile port already has stuff that the main game should have but doesnt is really silly, and it wouldnt even be that hard of an implementation. Their focus seems to be on bringing more people to the game instead of properly optimizing, the game and adding more features that make it more engaging
DS should work after each hook because DS against high mobility killers does nothing. I bring anti tunnel perks , I get slugged. I’m not one to dc or give up on hook and it’s extremely frustrating when someone else does it, but killers play extremely toxic now. Bleeding people out the entire timer or hard tunneling. Most perks to get you out of situations only work once and then you’re just dead anyway usually. Events are even worse. The only way I can enjoy events is playing as killer so I can do the different activities behavior put on the map. I don’t think killers should just hand the game to survivors because everyone wants to win, but the game is super miserable when I can’t even play the game when I’m in the match.
Thats a killer issue however. DS is useless vs Nurse sure but its completely game winning vs a Myers or Trapper. Bhvr has needed to smash the killers like a sandwich in terms of power level, bringing the higher tier killers closer to the weaker one and then they can BUFF killers overall and there will be less outliers in terms of broken AND bad killers
You're hurting the weaker killers too much and the survivor can then just use DS offensively. Body block and force killer to down them but be unable to actually hook them for a full minute.
A lot of killers were parroting the "your fun is not my problem" and "survivor rulebook heh..." mantras to defend bullshit strats or unfun gamestyles until solos decided to pay back with the same coin and suddenly people should feel empathic, care about other players and mindless stomps arent fun at all, empathy for me but not for thee, we have reached a point were many solos dont even care if someone suicides as it gives a reason to suicide and go next too and I dont blame them. The only solution is BHVR getting rid of most frustrating shit, punishing players wont do shit (and cant be realistically done), encouraging sides to be kinder wont do shit, youtubers complaining wont do shit, you dont want people throwing? Remove frustrating stuff and theyll eventually enjoy most trials again, only BHVR has the power to do this.
Hey Scott do you remember when killers started to say “don’t care about the survivors fun, it’s just yours that matters. Tunnel and camp and slug away”? I do and I remember that THAT mindset started around the 6.1.0 patch, coincidentally the patch that killed solo survivor the most. I just LOVE how killers are regretting the table flip of “I’m focusing on my fun, sorry for you to be the victim of it.”
You have this imaginary evil figure in your mind you associate every single killer with, i play killer 90% of the time and almost every game is 2 hooking then goofing around. Not everyone is a stereotype
@@HunterGoldhahn yeah. Noob killers run LB and hump the last surv. Bc they somehow didn't see Meg standing in my tile forcing me to take two hits. Like. Knowledgeable killers like myself will have fun with good loppers, be funny, let the last one go who worked the hardest.
@ so, crazy thing random replier, your 90% of matches will actually be probs 5% of the rest of those survivors’ matches for that day. Did you ever realize that those survivors will go into other matches with blight, nurse, and spirits with try hard and exhausting stuff? Did you ever realize that once you hit a certain mmr, you’re just eternally suffering in solo queue? Or did you ever realize that for the past year now, killers have been progressively slugging to high hell to confirm the 4K? Yeah, it’s definitely a me problem, surely not the killers taking matches so seriously that they completely ignore the fact that this is a game meant to be having fun. Im not saying it ain’t survivor too, but god damn killers are meant to control the matches flow of energy. recently they’ve been so negative, I’m SO glad you could have fun in most of your matches. I’d LOVE to have a killer like you in 90% of my matches too :)! Cause 90% is SOOOO MUCH for farming matches.
Yes, but people who were saying "don’t care about the survivors fun..., etc" don't care about them giving up on hook rn, that's the point. Those types of people don't want interesting matches, they want the other side to feel miserable, DC or kys on hook is a win for them. But there are also people that actually want an interesting matches (both survivors and killers) and they are against players giving up, bc they are ruining the match for everybody, for both sides.
@ wow where are those people? When I’m in my matches, those people just aren’t a thing. Face it, in high mmr, you are NOT getting a fun match that isn’t some tunelling, Tag backing, camping, or end game slugging.
Because those are selfish, 1v1 takes. A lot of people hate Clown. He's weak but it's about the chase aspect. Same thing with Deathslinger. Ghost Face. Having to look around all the time and scan constantly hoping to avoid an expose and one shot. He's still weak af, but it's about what he can do specifically against me, not about the ability to handle all 4 survivors. And that's a big chunk of the greater argument. Survivor is meant to be a team game, and survivor usually thrives by all 4 players doing their part. But that's not the mentality. The mentality is how it impacts the individual. My chases aren't fun, I get found first, I can't use my perks, etc., etc. Because of that, survivor will always be hell for some people, and you can't force people to care about more than themselves.
Something that might work that could make everyone happy including the "go next" ass holes is letting survivors see what killer they're going against in the pregame lobby. Killers get to see what items survivors are holding, and the only work around is to swap to an item just before the game starts but that's "toxic." I've never liked the idea of my flash bangs being invalidated because killers saw one of my teammates was running flashlight in the pregame lobby and added lightborn to their build. But I don't get the benefit of taking my fast healing perks out when going against a plague, or aura reading perks off when going against stealth killers. I think that'd only be fair and it might help solve these people's problem. Either that or maybe the go next kids need to grow a pair and hopefully behavior will make it so killers can't see items in pregame lobby.
Being able to see the killer in the lobby can be detrimental for a lot of killers. Not to mention it allows people to soft ban killers much more easily. You have 4 people in a lobby, each one has killers they really dislike going against, so now you have to wait in lobby until every survivor agrees that they want to go against a particular killer. It also allows survivors to snipe killers by picking perks that counter them and cycling lobbies until they hit the killer they're trying to counter.
@@utes5532That's fair. What might work better then is being able to see some kind of "killer type" or what the killer excels at. Stealth, Traversal, Chase, Anti-Loop, Projectile, Map control etc. That way you still have some kind of idea what build to put on but not a killer specific counter build. Either that or like I said, I hope they implement something where killers can't see items. Because when I go against a plague running lightborn 3 out of my 4 perks are immediately invalidated and you can bet your ass I'm not getting out because of it. And maybe Id still have to suck it up about not being able to make use of my healing perks, but at least the killer didn't see 3 people running flashlights and put on lightborn because they can see items while survivors have no pre game Intel. (Sorry off topic) But seriously hate this, and it might help at least a little with the go next kids without any killers getting soft banned... And for the record I do still play those matches where my perks get invalidated it's just frustrating.
@@OrdellRob Neat, let's add a banlist into the game where you can de-select any killers you don't wanna play against. I heard the queus were too fast anyway
I started playing this game sometime between when Hag and Doctor came out so I've seen it evolve over the years. I came back to it a month ago after a long break, and wow... I've never seen it this bad in terms of survivors giving up. Honestly at this point I am just fed up with it. I play solo queue survivor 50% of the time and killer the rest. As killer, I feel like I have to deliberately pick a non-meta killer and moderate my gameplay so survivors aren't losing too hard, or guess what, someone gives up completely. Solo queue survivor is MISERABLE. I've been trying to complete a tome challenge to escape as David King for the past 2 days, and I literally can't do it because most of my games end early because of someone killing themselves on their first hook. Even against killers that aren't particularly oppressive. Each time, I stick through the whole game and try to accomplish as much as possible, but it's sad knowing that winning is unlikely unless the killer goes easy on us in 3v1. The one time I actually left the game early in the past month was against a Singularity on Dead Dawg Saloon running a slug build and trying to down all 4 survivors. The killer didn't go for a single hook, even when it made sense to do so, but instead spammed those biopods around the map. At one point, I used an EMP before picking up a downed survivor only for the killer to still somehow have a biopod somewhere that still shot us. The killer would just teleport to all of us in turn to knock us down, and we spent the whole game either on the ground or trying to find someone else on the ground while their aura is hidden by Knock Out. Completely miserable experience. After about 15 mins of this, after being downed 3 separate times, one of my teammates left the game. I left the next time the killer found me. The reason I left though was that the game was incredibly boring and just seemed to never end. I can't stand survivors that quit on the first down/hook. Worst of all, they usually kill themselves on hook to avoid the DC penalty, which means the rest of us don't even get a bot to help us. If you quit at the start of the game like this, you deserve to be banned. I do not care about the whining that "killer X is broken" or "map Y sucks" or "I got downed too fast on my first chase so f it". I used to play this game when 5-blink Nurse with NOED was a thing. When moris could kill survivors on the first down. When killers could facecamp and there was no anti-camp mechanic or way for survivors to unhook from the side, and they would get grabbed during the unhook animation by the killer. Before the built-in Borrowed Time for the unhooked survivor. You have no idea how much better the game is than it used to be back in the day. And I've seen so many games that started off strong for the killer turn around spectacularly for survivors. But it requires survivors to stay focused on the objective. When you give up, you throw all of that away. If you hate playing this game so much that you feel the need to quit on the first hook, do us all a favor and uninstall. You can play Minecraft or whatever other more relaxing game is preferable to you. Please don't ruin it for the rest of us with your attitude. You are not justified in doing what you are doing. You are acting like a big baby, and it's pathetic.
“if survivors ruin the match.. its wrong and they need to grow up and play something else” “if killers ruin the match… you cant complain because thats how theyre allowed to play… stop crying, you can just waste all 4 perk slots to counter something a killer can abuse basekit”
Lmao this. Don't forget that you magically need a ton of perks to counter you being sluggrd, a ton other to counter your teammates being sluggrd, a ton other to counter you being tunneled and a ton other to counter your teammate being tunneled. Let me just magically equip 20 perks to counter playstyles that killers can do without spending a single perk slot on them
how did you possibly get this from what i said? i said its different between survivor and killer because with survivor you are stuck in a doomed match and with killer the match instantly ends.
@@ScottJund I wasnt quoting you. I was more ‘making fun of the stereotypical consensus’. But i hear what youre saying… its just, i dont believe what happens after a dc is important in any sense… i believe we need to look at why people dc in the first place. Yeah that whole ‘silent killers are broken’ was ridiculous, but at the same time ‘everyone dislikes different stuff more than someone else’ 🤷🏽♂️ Dont you think itll be healthier and potentially more enjoyable to completely shift the meta after 3-4 years now? maybe focus it more on ‘each killer is viable despite mobility, because their strength comes from their powers combined with unique perk builds, player game sense and strats’… instead of it being ‘the same 8-10 killers, using pop+painres, proxy camping while holding a 3 gen’. Yes it could break the game… but not if this big change was in production for years and all nicks and crevices where bugs can hide get polished… all perks reworked to suit… all killer powers reworked to suit… ect…
I think one thing no one has brought up is how significant the effect of the archive challenges are on the casual scene. If someone has a challenge to drop 5 pallets during chase and they got 4/5 last game, they will often just run at the killer to get a chase, drop a pallet, and then kill themselves on hook to start their next challenge faster. If they have a challenge to unhook themselves, they will hide in a corner with Deliverance and wait to make sure someone else gets hooked before them so they can activate their perk. I've been in matches where two people have challenges to get hook saves and race each other to every hook (knowing the other is also going for the save) while not doing gens, and then insult each other in post game chat for stealing the unhooks they needed for their challenge. If someone has a challenge to stun the killer, they will run at the killer with Head On and DS and give up on hook once they get the stun(s) they need. Basically for a lot of solo queue casual players, the game is about archive challenges. I think this is because escaping relies on teamwork, but an archive challenge is usually something you can do yourself regardless of whether your team is winning or losing on gens, and solo queue players don't want to have to rely on the RNG of a getting a good team to accomplish something meaningful in the game (it's also a bit of a self-fulfilling prophecy since becoming an 'archive survivor' means you become the kind of 'bad RNG teammate' you were originally hoping to avoid).
Blame killers and their "your fun isnt my responsibility" bs. If thats the case, your fun isnt MY responsibility, either. People dont like the shoe being on the other foot.
It's funny how people rarely talk about killer DCs, which ruin the match for the four survivors when they were actually doing good. If the killer is having a bad game and "goes next", the match immediately ends for everyone involved.
brother as someone who has been in DBD since 2016, that mindset is not unique to killers and has been around for YEARS. You are outing yourself as someone with heavy survivor bias if you think killers are solely responsible for that.
@@MeepFromSpongebob you and scott are both missing the point. when survivors DC, a bot is enabled and the match continues. If survivors are having a good match and having fun, killers can DC and the survivors just have to eat that. It ends up being a nasty cycle of getting stomped and having killers quit because they're doing poorly.
@@Darcalus lets be fr for a moment a bot is better then nothing but it is still a pretty much guaranteed victory for the killer. That defense is cope from people who leave games.
Hi Scott, I’ve been a fan for a while. Wanted to give my input, but I believe that removing the DC penalty in the short term will be bad, but in the long term would be a very good thing! I’ll give a example, we have all gone against that midwich/4 slowdown/ nurse player. Who wants to slug and bleed you out for 4 minutes to get their rocks off. There isnt any solo que survivor player who wants to stay in that game. If you allow those players to leave, the nurse player can play against bots since they are already playing easy mode. On the flip, no killer player wants to go against the “comp” swf with the perfect meta, medkits, map offerings, exc. so if they could leave (assuming killer bots will be in the game) the “comp” swf will get their bully killer game. I believe overall the removal of the DC penalty will incentivize good behaviors, while at the beginning you’d get a DC every game for like a week. Until both sweaty killers and survivors realize that all they are doing is playing against bots and let go of the gas for once. Maybe I am wrong, but I think it would do the game good if you just remove the DC penalty, thank you for reading! Cheers!
I kinda want so bad to believe it will come out like this but it just wont , people will get annoyed by the slightest thing in the game and just ESC + leave match , just imagine how many times a survivor in your lobby has left against chill m1 killers because the game or chase didnt go their way or they just got outplayed , think about all the times a killer has left against a full solo team , they will encounter 1 decent player that last more than 1 min and they ll just say fuck it go next
I trult believe the best way to fix this problem is to either add a rank mode and add casual lobbys 5 dcs or something a day or make the game ranked across the board so people have actual self centered and "ego" reasons to stay on the match
The issue with this line of thinking is that dbd is not a coop vs ai game in anyway the human element/player expression is what makes it dynamic and fun nobody wants to play against or with bots what you think is incentivizing good behaviors is actually the antithesis of the game.
Pretty sure if they had basekit OTR and DH and DS and Kindred and Shoulder The Burden, people would still complain about tunneling. This isn't a game issue, this is just a horrible mentality problem that people in DBD encouraged for so long that it's normal. I also feel like the worst part about Survivor is other Survivor players. The killers rarely makes me as upset as other people on my team ending it all after one minor inconvenience. 32:26 Pretty sure comments like this are about Zu and they're confusing you two. Even a few months ago, most of Zu's videos have them DCing once a video.
if they were to somehow make tunneling less effective/prevalent, you may still have people complaining about it. but instead of it being a massive amount of players rightfully complaining about bad game design, it becomes a small amount of players whining over their own extreme skill issue. it wont eradicate the problem outright of course, but to act like it wouldnt be a massive step in the right direction is hilariously incorrect
Players shouldn't have to bring specific Perks, Items or Add-Ons just to have fun. I should be able to have an enjoyable match without being forced to bring something simply because of unhealthy game design. I want to run interesting and unique builds without having to worry about having to go against the best builds when I'm running a sub-optimal option. It's not about optimal or sub-optimal, it's about having fun. If I'm not having fun, I'm leaving.
Killer has gotten easier with almost every update beginning with 6.1 and it’s not for balance it’s to keep matchmaking snappy for survivors A lot of killer mains are antisocial wannabe bullies chasing a power fantasy and they won’t play the game if it’s too fair. Survivors need stronger basekit tools to punish unsportsmanlike behavior like tunneling camping and slugging but BHVR needs to be careful to make sure killers still feel strong to keep the weirdos playing
When will people realize THEYRE BORED. “Man I hate x y z, how is it in the game” “I hate how killers/survivors do x y z” THATS the game; why are you surprised that it happens? The game plays how it plays out, if someone is getting annoyed because the killer/survivors are able to do certain things then you dont hate the person doing said thing, you hate the GAME.
I don't hate the game, I hate how the devs Designed the game. Because it encourages everyone to play like a prick. Just because it can't be fixed doesn't mean it can't be complained about.
I think they do realize it’s just that many people are addicted to dbd. Many people in this community only play dbd so they have sunk a shit ton of time and money into it.
Even as a killer, I HATE when people go next. Same with match after match of friendlies. I hop on the game because I like playing it, if I wanted to not play it I wouldn't launch it.
What I've learned from these videos is that Killers can act like actual sweat babies, but Survivors have to just deal with it and keep things going, even in entirely unwinnable situations. I also learned from y'all to "play something else", so I am. Others probably are, too. I don't want the game to die; I think we just need something that's a bit more relaxed/less competitive that doesn't depend on having to switch modes or games altogether to "have fun". (When you bought DBD as a game to, y'know, "have fun", as most other normal people do when they buy games. 😂) Telling someone to play something else literally does nothing to fix the issues that pushed them away. Negligence, arrogance, and stubborness can kill anything, over time.
Actually it does it forces behavior to actually improve their game and direct resources to making the game actually fun and enjoyable and not having 80% of their team working on new Sable skins. Problem is too many people in the community have spent too much on these Sable skins and are afraid of quitting.
If they did a ranked mode with bans, you'd have to make your builds after the queue and bans. The time between games would probably be greatly increased. Especially for that mode if people don't take to it as much as the regular game
I see the Go Next problem in sooo many of my games, and while I have 2,000+ hours in DBD, I would not consider myself great at the game or "High MMR". Sure, the people I'm matched with (solo q surv) are definitely not new by any means, but I play DBD casually to have fun and hopefully run a couple fun chases before I have to get off. Nothing makes me log off the game faster than playing two 3 v 1 games in a row.
Scott I only have one complaint. Can you please stop saying "No one" has/will/ever/etc because I can almost guarantee you that I can go find an example of someone for every single time you said it this video, but I obviously respect my time more than that. There will ALWAYS be an exception to your definitive statements and when you're making arguments about something you should generally avoid them as it undermines you a bit.
I used to play dbd back then and I can ensure you that there where JUST as many dcs and go next mentality players. Why do I know this? I mained spirit and later oni, every time I started slugging just 1 survivor on half of my matches ppl immediatly refused to play and just dcd or killed themselves. It happened to often that I started to play less my main killers just because of this very reason. I still have tons of salty comments on my steam profile from ppl beeing upset that I play these killers xD. I can understand why this is a problem and I agree that it needs to be fixed, but claiming that "back then there wasnt this" is just simply not true, we used to have this also a lot but I assume over the years ppl are just done with this.
In addition to the general lack of empathy, there is a breach of social contract by intentionally playing the game (or quitting it) in a way that goes against the normal rules of play. The counter to the "I bought it. I can play it how I want," argument is that you bought a (mostly) ONLINE MULTIPLAYER game. So, yes, you did buy DBD and you CAN technically play it how you want to. However, when you purchase an MMO game you are agreeing to the implied Social Contract that you will play the game, not just within the official rules, but within the realm of "normal play." Because guess what? Other people ALSO already purchased DBD under the expectation that (at least most) games would be played in the spirit of the developers' intended vision. By buying a multiplayer online game, and then saying "fuck it I'm going to play it like an offline single player game where only my fun matters," you are breaking the implied Social Contract of the game. And sure---technically you CAN do that and it's not illegal. But implied Social Contracts are everywhere in society and you abide by them literally all the time even if you aren't aware of it. And, not to be dramatic, but society is built on this concept. So, why don't we just maintain that mentality when we sit in our gamer chairs? :) (Also, look at my Democratic Theory degree being useful in fucking DBD discussion).
Me and my friend played DBD a lot, I had 800ish hours and she had about 1300, maybe more. We genuinely loved the game but the community ruined it for us. So many more people were giving up since we had last played, we were legitimately shocked at how often it happened. These people dont seem to realize they are gatekeeping their own game and ruining it for everyone else. For killer, we were getting tunneled significantly more than we had before. We brought anti tunnel shit, but it didn’t even matter because killers had gotten better playing it around it and rhey had been nerfed so much that it was difficult for me to get use out of it. I would say I was an above average looper, not insanely good or anything but could hold my own against half decent killers (although lose most of the time). Even so they barely did anything for me. I should mention, this was after coming back from like a year+ break. Thats why I had difficulty adjusting to the game and the way people played made it even harder. I had so many “good” perks to catch up on. People dont realize how awful the grind to get anti tunnel or camping perks is. I just gave up even tho I still had some love for the game. Its not just bad for new players, their systems are terrible for returning players too I really don’t see any hope for this game if the community continues as it is. I dont envy the devs for having to deal with these fucking grown babies. They make some questionable decisions, everytime the game seems to open up for new players rhey make something else significantly more difficult and frustrating. Maybe this is a bit of extreme measure but instead of trying to make these obviously miserable players happy, why not just double down on punishing them and phase them out completely. Get rid of self unhooking (at least at the beginning of matches its still fun to do later on or maybe put it behind a perk like slippery hook or some shit) and be more strict with gameplay sabotaging and DCing.
the lack of empathy is like an epidemic now. even outside of games people just dont give a shit about other people
This has been the case for the killer part of the community for quite awhile now. Now survivor mains are following suit.
@@stevenobrien7686No, it has nothing to do with whether or not you're a survivor or killer. Stop feeding the Us Vs Them bullshit. As a former killer main when I was sub 1000 hours still learning the nuances for how to play killer well, I was routinely reminded how little survivors gave a shit about my experience. There were many attempted bully squads, some of them successful.
Both sides are guilty of this "lack of empathy" you speak of. I don't know who struck first, but the community as a whole is the problem. NOT "killers", not "survivors". Everybody. This isn't new. This is a problem as old as the game itself if you really look back at the game's history, go far back enough and you'll find survivors holding killers hostage WITHOUT hacking. And vice versa.
When I compare lifestyle and empathy standards from English speaking countries to someplace like Japan, I see a big difference - and it convinces me that even with the internet, there are ways to maintain a cultural shift towards respect and understanding. We're just sort of resigned to the idea it's impossible in America. Admittedly, it would require decades of changes to what we consider "expected norms".
Pretty hard to be empathetic in a world where a school full of children gets obliterated every other week, I don't blame anybody for being unempathetic in this place. Just care about yourself and those around you, life will be easier.
@@pintolerance785 You can't seriously be blaming middle eastern conflict for entitlement in a video game are you FOR REAL right now?
ngl the first guy was right. haven’t touched this game in a year and life is good
mcote wasnt wrong when he said if you're bored go play civ
@@ScottJund Haven't played this game in years and I still get this in my recommended
truth brother the day i stopped playing dbd regularly my life improved
@@ScottJund Civ 7 Scott soon?
Go next match? Nah, go next game 🙏
The people going next:
"You know what? I'm just going to go next even harder!!😡"
Tbh it is what it is , people will keep dcing for good reasons or no reasons at all and there is nothing you can do to change it ... its people time and they are entitled to ruins other people experience if the match itself doesnt fit them , its kinda what you sign up for playing as a team game , dont know why scott is on this crusade of trying to stop this when on previous years people were trying to boycott BHVR to make a point and he didnt care at all , in fact he made the same argument im making here
@@flyingdutchman8399because the entitlement dbd players have is ridiculous, other games ridicule people who DC constantly. You can actually get banned for sabotaging games or consistently leaving because it ruins everyone elses experience that actually wants to play the game. the people who just give up mid match are actually a minority, but it takes one per game to ruin it. and if its the killer, the entire game is over.
dbd is special because of being asymmetrical yes, but expecting the game to revolve around you while also not expecting to be punished for it is stupid. you are not justified for leaving the game, there is no good reason. youre supposed to have fun, if you’re not then play a different game because youre having a bad time and taking other people down with you
@@demifolk8940only in ranked. Most people don’t care when people leave in Quick Play because there’s back fill and if you had a crap teammate who’s throwing and they quit you got a chance at getting a god tier player that flips the game.
Nah I’m still just going next against the same things. No need to up it.
@@flyingdutchman8399 Except Scott's argument has nothing to do with DC and everything to do with giving up on hook, I'm not sure why your painting this as him talking about DCing but hes not and still thinks if you really are going to give up just DC instead of dying on hook because at least a bot can do something, Its almost like your ignoring all his points in favour of focusing on something else that he already said you can do what you want with, Hes not anti dc hes anti going next which is literally about dying on hook to get no penalties and robs a team of a member.
Literally just DC and waste your own time because of your own choices instead of wasting others, Its as simple as that and to think that 1 person should be allowed to waste 4 other peoples times because "Well its their time they can do what they want with it!" Is literally entitlement that is literally what entitlement is, You think you are owed something therefore you do the thing without a second thought, No one is entitled to time literally no one, Everything is a waste of time and to think your time is more valuable than others is nothing short of hubris.
>The people who argue the hardest for an excuse to not play the game are the ones obsessively trying to play it
Addiction mindset is a fuckin scary thing
Its not 4chan don't use > also you used it wrong
@@OMGWTFROFLCOPTERBBQ nah bro it ain’t that deep. I just don’t like being slugged with KO 3rd Seal in solo queue I’m basically guaranteed to bleed out.
@@dkres82good idea I havent run that build in a while 😂
@@jitteryjared5338 that’s cool. I’ll just locker spam to force hook and leave through a 1 hook
@@dkres82 thats what I want though, easy game and free BP + endgame chat salt 😂
I can respect not wanting to play DBD, for many reasons, but if I don't want to play DBD I just... don't queue? Why not just go next to a different game you actually enjoy?
Its kinda a dance between i want fun matches / i get a unfun match , the main factor here is the people own perspective of what is unfun , cause we all agree that dcing or giving up vs ultra sweaty blight nurse or spirit is just a go next no one cares scenario , but for some people dcing against legion is legit so there is a problem
Miserable players are addicted just like League players
@@mitchsz
And destiny players
And overwatch players
And cod players
And apex players
That's what I did, too many quitters. The DC's and the entitlement the community has around the "right to DC" grew too tiresome to deal with, so I embraced their mindset and "went next" to a completely different game.
@@mitchsz Thats why i play Karthus only, i dont care if i lose cause i enjoy playing my (former) skellyboy!
It's crazy because these go next people say it's entitled to expect them to play out the match but not entitled for them to ruin the game for 4 other people because something happened that they didn't like.
Yeah the community is very cancerous just the mindset of a lot of players is f everybody else it is all about me that all that matter
The world revolves around them. This game wasn’t made to sustain players for over a thousand hours. I’m a survivor main but it’s really annoying how people just ignore the 4 other people in your lobby who also want to play the game. I don’t care about winning or losing o just wanna have fun. Even if we all die if it’s a competitive game to the end that’s all that matters. I’ve had to take a break from the game because now it’s either people quitting Less than a minute into the match or just genuine solo queue incompetence so the only way I “win” is by going against terrible killers
And why would they care about the killer? Lol. Do killers care about survivors with the way they play and builds they bring?
@@liabilitylinda3501 And round and round it goes. It's the mentality of the comp sweats and almost no one wants to point that out.
@@liabilitylinda3501 Even if they don't care about the killer they should care about their team they queued up with.
People forget that this game is a TEAM GAME. Imagine if you were to do ANYTHING team oriented IRL and within 5 minutes a guy goes "eh I'm not having fun I quit". That person just looks like an entitled baby. Why que into a TEAM game and not be commited to be a teammate? Just play a single player game or at least killer like ffs. Survivors nowadays genuinely have crazy brainrot it's insane
yeah but if i start doing something with a team IRL only to have two of them crouch behind objects in the room while the third sets off on a completely unrelated and unhelpful task then i'll probably bail on them too
IRL you can communicate and aren't hiding behind a keyboard.
Can't even speak with your team.. it's not
Most “Team” games currently can be won by one or two very skilled players when the opponents are less skilled. The most popular competitive multiplayer games are all like this. League, OW, Valorant, CS2, etc. If there’s one or 2 good players, those good players can carry. That is almost never true of DBD because of the game formula and lack of skill expression on the survivor side. The whole notion of “Team Game” is only relevant when both sides are actually balanced and allow for high skill ceiling expressions. If the killer goes for the 2/3 weakest loopers first, there is pretty much nothing a super skilled survivor can really do to help the team win.
I think the main issue is that being a team player isn't really rewarded in the game.
If you had some kind of bonus for other people escaping, maybe there'd be some incentive to play out scenarios that are hopeless for yourself
i think the best solution is the one proposed by otz, where if a survivor dc's the rest of the players in the game can dc and receive no penalty plus keep the amount of bp they've earned so far. 1 person decides to ruin the game, the rest of the lobby can just end it, keep their rewards and go next also
Honestly, the most simple and elegant soulution
the issue is people are dying on hook not DCing
@@mayamiyuki8814They need to make a giving up report option that when somebody gets many of (and the game checks for behaviour that looks like giving up) then they just get slapped with a week-long ban.
Fuck those guys, the punishment needs to be much more severe than DCing.
Nobody is dcing, bozo
@@Vasiliy9hells Except dcing isn't even half of the actual issue. Going next isn't hitting escape and disconnecting or alt f4ing it's killing yourself on hook. Otz solution would do absolutely nothing to curtail the going next mentality and would only lead to people figuring out some way to abuse the fuck out of disconnect penalty essentially no longer existing.
going next video, ggs scott
Yeah me too, ggs tho
Faġ
@guts_gudaniky it's sarcasm
@@guts_gudaniky me when im in an insufferable nerd competition and my opponent is a Berserk fan.
@@SissypheanCatboy didn’t ask
Watched till the end and on the lack of empathy point - this is literally encouraged by the devs.
Not even obviously like SBMM making you lose no matter what if you die, even if that means saving the rest of your team but also just in atittude. They said clearly in response to a plea to improve solo queue that is INTENDED DESIGN FOR SOLO PLAYERS TO BE RATS AND NOT HELP OTHERS AND INSTEAD SURVIVE ALONE.
the devs are 100% at fault for the current health of the game
SBMM being based on individual escapes is one of the most confusing things that exists in current DBD. It feels like one of those "old DBD" things that you'd only see mentioned in videos with the old UI like 3 iri hatchet huntress
That's just the classic bhvr defensive bs they say, though. Literally every huge problem with the game they just deny in some way before eventually fixing it months/years later.
These motherfuckers said running infinites was skillful and so they didn't want to get rid of it so they didn't have to do anything. Bhvr are just the worst and unless they're talking about future patches everything they say should be ignored because they're the most manipulative and gaslighting studio towards their playerbase I have ever seen by an enormous margin.
@@zackmash851 Yeah. A lot of this is human nature. The devs feed this and horrible people feast. The problem is the lack of competition for rational people with devs who don't actually want people to suffer or have deluded visions of grandeur or actually view this as a game rather than an art project with 'visions' that must not be touched (for example the basement is a terrible gameplay mechanic but an engaging movie trope). Everyone who has tried to be competition has fallen into one pit fall or the other that would be obvious if you were actually paying attention. There's a video on this somewhere.
@@Peachrocks5 i made a video on why asyms fail and i still think beyond all the other things mentioned "copy dbd legally distinctly but don't take the shit" is the overarching thing lol
I think this might be a tolerance paradox thing. If you are ignorant towards the people you're playing with and don't care about ruining other peoples fun, don't expect them to tolerate you being intolerant to them.
Player knowledge with unwinnable (or "unwinnable") situations in matches might also be a factor, if someone thinks the BP/risk of bleedout outweighs the chances of winning, they might go next out of seeing the match as already over (whether or not that's actually the case).
As a solo queue player, I consider a 3v1 at 3 gens unwinnable and absolutely will go next in that situation. I don't care to work on a gen that won't end up powering the exit gates just to get killed anyway. Nor do I care to hide in the corner pulling my pecker until my teammates die and hatch is open. Just kill me.
This is why I think DBD has a snowball problem and needs to have more catch-up mechanics built in. The better a side does, the more benefit the other side gets.
"But that's punishing me for doing well!"
Sure, that's a way to look at it. I prefer to look at it as "trying to drive the game closer to a 50/50" that prevents the "unwinnable" situations that arise in asymmetrical games.
@@drewhoffmaster2969 This is a really good point. I think we should test out what they in 2v8. Might as well, what's the worse that can happen?
It usually is for less experienced players.
@@numnaut1314 2v8 should unironically be the norm, the regular game has never felt fun since
burn out is definitely the biggest factor. every time i take a break from the game i come back and enjoy it again. the game keeps improving and taking a step back really helps you see that
uhhh no, its definitely been getting worse. how long do i have to step back to be able to pretend like it isnt? is months at a time not enough?
@@zackmash851Bro the game on release was absolute dog shit compared to what it is now. If you can't see that you have mental issues or weren't there.
@@zackmash851This is just incorrect , the game has gotten way better. More balanced killers, 2v8, chaos shuffle etc.
Remember keys, ds dribbling, struggle phase spam. Please just take a break from the game.
@@Logan-bo7nt im not saying NOTHING got better over the years, but the game has definitely trended downward in the past 4 years. rampant server issues that lead to more gameplay issues than killer hosting ever did; a move to UE5 that has lead to more things not working properly than things working properly; awful balance changes like 6.1; objectively the worst map design the game has ever seen in both remade maps, new maps, and new tile design; powercrept killers with unfun power concepts and even worse implementation; perks and perk combinations that are garbage for solo players but unimaginably broken in SWFs pushing the gap between roles further and further apart; the list goes on man
@@zackmash851 Still disagree. The game is way better than 4 years ago and if you can’t see that, then I suggest taking a break from the game.
You’re being overly cynical.
8:06 It's actually crazy how much of an impact the first couple months of Skull Merchant's existence negatively affected her. It's to the point that nearing 2 years on people hate facing her, not because her power is broken or irritating to face, but seemingly simply for the fact that she exists and they remember when she was 😂 I can't think of another game where this has ever happened. She could be removed from the game at this point and BHVR could issue a public apology for creating her and people would still be complaining years later. Genuinely one of the craziest things I've seen playing this game for nearing 6 years now.
Legion had that same issue for a while back
3:24 Well, the issue is that this is just one thing, right? Then what? Killer is tunneling a teammate, so now you want Shoulder to counter it. Killer is slugging, so now you want Live Forever. Killer is camping, so now you want Reassurance. Yeah, Killer is tunneling, so now you want OTR. Oh, but they hit you immediately on unhook anyway, to mitigate OTR, so now you want Decisive. Oh, they'll down you and slug you, so now you want Unbreakable. Oh, the Killer is playing for their 3 gens since the start of the game, so now you wish you had toolboxes, or Potential Energy, or Prove...
There are *only* four perk slots, in a game that's been using perks to bandaid the core problems for over 10 years. You can talk about each problem individually and say, "Just run this perk," but when you zoom out, there's just not enough slots. These problems need a fundamental fix, not a perk.
Camping is dead in the game tunneling does have effective counters slugging is something that is hard to fix since some killers literally need to do it to create pressure
@@Tyekiller115 How is camping dead? Camping is the strongest thing between it, tunneling, and slugging.
@ lol anti face mechanism along with the ui hud. Along with the fact that if someone is camping they are applying no pressure to the other 3 people
@@Tyekiller115 Nobody cares about face camping. That was a BM tactic, not a strategic tactic. Camping itself is not affected by the anti-face camp mechanic. Do you even play DBD??? Killers don't even respect it because it's trivial. Survivors don't adapt their play according to it, because it will never grant somebody an unhook. What game are you even playing? You will get literally zero support if you say the anti-face camp mechanic shut down camping. You sound like a guy that read the patch notes but hasn't played in 5 years.
And you can camp while applying pressure just fine. Throw someone on a hook between 3 gens. Easy game, easy life.
Yeah, I'm not actually convinced you even play DBD, let alone have any business trying to participate in this conversation.
@ I do play dbd a lot actually but also patrolling 3 gens is not camping
Burnout is 100% the biggest factor for this go next mindset and more people need to learn to take breaks from this game. I've definitely had my own babyrage giving up on first hook moments in the past but now I've barely played the game in 2024, only came back in december and I'm having the best time even with things that i know would have pissed me off in the past.
29:48 I don’t understand how that guy is being hypocritical. He was being useful during the match by distracting the killer. His teammates see that he’s taking chase and they decide to not progress the game in any way. He could run the killer for 20 minutes and the teammates would still be looking for totems or hiding at the hint of a terror radius. So him wanting to go next is completely understandable.
It’s clear that his teammates only care about their own survival, and not the survival of the whole team. So they probably won’t even care that he goes next anyways.
I think Scott was working with the assumption that they willingly put themselves on hook without chasing, which would mean they're useless. Given that the comment doesn't go into detail, it's hard to tell whether this is the case.
scott calling people out for working with assumptions when he does the same thing, classic dbd entitlement. like if you aren't having fun, don't play. you're not gonna get people to change with 30 minute videos complaining and giving them validation in what they are doing.
Literally 95% of my games
@@xefficient1948I was assuming that the person was taking chase and going down, then would see that his teammates were in the basement or doing totems. But yeah, looking at the comment now, I guess it’s never stated that he was taking chase.
@@hossiceexactly, no going nexter is changing their mind over a streamer calling them entitled. this video is purely to satiate scott’s viewers who already agree with him by giving them their regular scott jund opinion slop for the week.
I kinda agree with the second guy; you shouldn’t be forced to bring OTR or DS or any meta perks. The joys of builds and perk synergy is you make whatever build you want and that’s fun as hell. Does it make it easier if you bring meta perks? Yes. But is it fundamentally flawed that those perks are borderline required in many games nowadays? Also yes.
I agree, if you’re getting tunneled, for example, slap on the anti tunneled perks. But that shouldn’t be the only solution.
Edit: this is coming from someone who has been here since Myers introduction. I’ve seen all the downs and ups. While meta perks will forever exist as optimization of gameplay is inevitable, it shouldn’t be a silver bullet. That creates stale and bland gameplay, thus hurting retention.
Sadly that's like trying to play a brew in a card game. Like running a Yu-Gi-Oh deck without handtraps, or a Legacy deck with no copies of Force, Fatal Push, lock pieces or graveyard hate. It's just going to be miserable if tou don't do the things the format is balanced around
I agree. The fact that you need to run anti-tunnels for the game to be even playable is horrible game design and this is coming from someone who always runs anti-tunnel builds
The game is designed around interaction. Killers have their ways to meddle in the plans of survivors and survivors have their ways of subverting killers. In any game not just dbd if your strategy or build isn't good enough to win unless the opponent doesn't interact with you then the issue probably isn't the game. You probably just need to build (or be) better at the game to begin with. As a player you should be protecting your win conditions and countering your opponent's if this is not what you are doing how can you expect to win at all?
Bhvr : lets add stb as a perk and not basekit
I feel like this goes the same with regression perks for killers. It's not as bad as survivor but your winrate ir killrate drops massively, bigger then it should be i feel like. And im kinda bored of killers bringing the same stuff every single game.
That guy around 6 minutes who just goes "I leave if I don't like it" basically sums up the survivor entitlement. So you're telling me that playing like 75% of the game isn't fun for you? Why are you even playing?
in solo q, its not unusual for 75% or more of games to be unplayable and a waste of time. i reserve the right to leave the game if my teammates dont touch gens for the first minute, or if the killer tunnels a weak link, or plays a broken character, or cheap playstyle. if i couldnt do that i would NEVER get games that are enjoyable because id be stuck in all the shitty unfun ones. im all for removing the dc penalty. killers that sweat vs solos dont deserve fun games anyways. the moment bhvr removes a way to go next i will uninstall this game 100%. and i say this as someone who plays plenty of killer too (i just dont play it like an ass)
But they don’t leave 75% of the time. You act like people that go next do it every match. As someone who does it there’s very specific things that I do it for. Outside of those things I play it out.
Slugularity is chief among my reasons to do it. And that’s only because I’m solo queue if I was in a SWF I wouldn’t really care.
@@CUZdeathwinswhy are you playing dbd if 75% of your matches are, by your definition, miserable? GO PLAY SOMETHING ELSE INSTEAD OF MAKING THE GAME WORSE FOR OTHERS. Before I took a break from this game, I had a bad habit of giving up on killer and afking. Instead of continuing to play and get pissy when a game was unwinnable, I JUST STOPPED PLAYING. YOU DONT NEED DBD TO LIVE LIFE.
Because making the game unfun for killers is the other 25% that makes it fun. Almost like making a horror game into a wannabe competitive mess is a terrible idea.
@@CUZdeathwinswahhhhhhhwaaaaahhhhhhhhhh😢😢😢😢😢😢
i cannot agree with the anti tunneling take, it is the exact same scenario as old borrowed time where you would be throwing if you dont take it, but even worse because you only get tunneling matches 50% of the time, so theres a 50% chance you’re just playing a no perk game which is honestly really unfun. and while normally i would agree that getting chased is fun, we run into map gen issues where you get a haddonfield with 2 pallets so your getting chased the whole game just turns into hold w into a corner. it is a massive game design flaw imo that you have to waste perk slots as the only counter to an easy tie/win strategy.
although i should mention it isnt a reason to dc and i do still try to achieve as much time waste as possible, just sucks when the game makes you defenseless
a no perk game? brother im not saying bring 4 anti tunnel perks im saying slap one to your existing build its not that intense
@@ScottJundstill sucks to get ran out of your full meme build just to counter one 50% strategy regardless, nic cage build just doesnt feel the same when i cant laugh at other people failing skill checks :(
@@JayFeatherOutcast you literally have the tools to counter what you so dislike just run 1 of those perks
Only watched a portion so far, but this sort of mentality from survivors is partially what drove me away from the game. I wanna play for fun, too. People just killing themselves on first hook literally just sucks all the fun out of the match. :(
A good majority of the dbd playerbase is miserable and just wanna punish the other side for having fun. Thats why i only play a few matches a day
@@leonkennedy6206 That's honestly what it feels like sometimes. Coming from someone who was a pre-buff nemesis main. I just wanted to be big scary zombie man and chase people. :( I also dabbled in PH and Trapper as secondaries since I enjoy a bit of challenge, but people are ruthless about this death on hook stuff.
@@wiredsound5005 Nah I feel you on that one. This game is very asshole sided in my opinion. Whichever side is the biggest asshole wins
@@wiredsound5005 TH-cam keeps deleting my comments. I had replied and said this game is A**hole sided. Which ever side is the bigger jerk usually wins
Same. I returned after a break from DBD and the first match I played had the survivors instantly giving up. Completely killed any motivation to play again
The second comment talking about getting hardcore tunneled immediately is something i relate to, and what he means is that we shouldn't have to always rely on second chance perks, especially if we're trying a specific build for healing, doing gens, etc..
I for one suck at chases most of the time, and i tend to focus on bringing gen or healing builds because 1) people never do gens 2) people never heal enough or 3) the killer is using a build to make one of those two things much harder. If I'm first to go every damn time for whatever reason multiple times when im using those builds, im not going to have fun. Because the moment i decide to bring a chase build, im not getting chased enough/still getting my ass beat from chases and my teammates arent doing gens or healing
Now imagine dealing with that struggle on top of the go next problem, we're just constantly wasting our time
Still sounds like a problem that can be fixed by just getting better. If you’re constantly the weak link because by your admittance you simply aren’t good at chase, then you just need to get better at chase. Once you aren’t going down in a reasonable time most killers won’t want to spend a minute + chasing when they could probably down someone else easier. Only way you’re going to get better in chase is to be chased.
As for the whole “being chased while my teammates do nothing” I mean, that’s always going to be an issue if the majority of survivors aren’t good players. Nothing anyone can do about that except hope they learn to play the game. No HUD UI or base kit perk or free toolbox is going to give any survivor a better game sense. That’s up for them to work on
I get that struggle since I played both survivor and killer, but I also saw it from the other side. As a survivor, it had been years since I could run a silly perk loadout and just have fun in a match. If you aren't running all meta second chance perks you'll get tunneled out and die immediately. It's boring to own consistently with the same overpowered perks, and it's boring to lose anytime you try something different.
But from the killer perspective, I don't have a chance in a fair match against survivors running meta builds. Their perks basically punish me for hooking, but if I do have to hook instead of slugging, I'm punished for not tunnelling. You may not be running a meta build, but I can't see your perks. For all I know the instant I lose sight of you there are a half dozen perks and three items in the game that can have you healed up in less than 30 seconds. It's boring to tunneled and slug everyone and it's boring to lose every single match trying not to tunnel. That's why I just stopped playing and honestly I'm way happier that way.
@@HoneyDog Part of the problem is that "just getting better" is one of the most mind-numbingly tedious and frustrating experiences in DbD. Getting chase practice in 10-15 second increments because you suck at chase isn't very productive when if you aren't just immediately going next, a match is 10-15 *minutes* instead, plus maybe another five more between queue and loading times.
That's even without factoring in that it's so difficult to tell if what you're doing is actually working; there's no way to tell if a Killer finds you because of a perk, a lucky guess, or because they heard you breathing. Then there's the constant lag issues DbD has: you can frame-perfect vault or drop a pallet and still get hit because of de-sync from you, the Killer, both, or hell sometimes *neither* because sometimes the servers just decided to crap out on their own and there's no real way to tell if you did something wrong, or you failed the knowledge check for some perk, or a secret third thing.
The fact that this game has a several hundred hour minimum competency expectation is absurd. It makes being a new player near impossible, and when the solo queue experience is so miserable right now, it's a few hundred hours of the game being a frankly shitty experience to get the practice needed to actually engage with it.
I totally agree. There are over 100 different perks, but I'm required to use stuff I don't like. If I don't run a meta perk, I lose?
How's that fun for anyone?
It's precisely this Comp brain BS that killed old Dead hard, Nerfed item charge amounts, and will probably ruin anything half decent for survivors in the future.
@@Orangebacon1-v2y I definitely get that. Having played a lot of For Honor that game is basically the same. It's been out for so long and so much of the community is dedicated long time players. Trying to get into that game now is like trying to break down a wall with your fists. There is no choice but to basically get pummeled for hundreds of hours until you've memorized all 36 characters full movesets and learned how to make 300ms reactions.
But when you get good at it then it feels great. Same thing with DbD really, or at least it was when I played. Do I think it should be like that? No, certainly not. But I'm not the devs and I don't make the game and updates. I digress though, it is hard to make a asymmetrical 1v4 game like DbD non-competitive. Either way the annoying truth is that there's only one way to get better at these kinds of games, and that's just constantly playing, even if most of your matches are losses.
Fun fact: BHVR adressing camping and tunneling
Also BHVR: Nerfing shit ton of maps to little pockets with huge dead zones or completely useless tiles, where tunneling out survivors is done very easily (Coldwind maps, Haddonfield, Forgotten Ruins, Nostromo, Sanctum of Wraith, Temple of Purgation) while keeping overtuned killers/add-ons untouched
It's to the point where Backwater Swamp is unironically one of the better maps in the game for survivors since it hasn't yet been infected by the recent bhvr curse of dog shit map resources.
@@usedsocks288lmao this. You know it's bad when I don't mind getting Grim Pantry too much. Not because it's even close to being good, but because it's at least not as garbage as Yamaoka, Coldwind or Borgo maps or Haddonfield, Greenville and Midwich
Maps are too small, stealth isnt strong enough, heals got nerfed, and A and S tier killers have basekits that are too strong.
Because of these issues, its too easy to get stuck in a loop where the killer can down and hook someone before the previously hooked person can fully reset, so theres no time to get gens done.
@@liabilitylinda3501ngl I prefer Garden of Joy and the most survivor sided maps in the game than play a minute in swamp, that map is legit the ugliest map and hardest map to bare in terms of visuals i have ever seen in a online video game, until that map remains in the game unchanged I shall remain as the biggest hater
Yeah this legit makes no sense, thank you bro
I usually agree with Scott, but this time I couldn’t disagree more.
While I agree that eliminating the dc penalty would help lessen the effect of players quitting.
The truth is, you can’t force players to have fun. This is issue is as simple as that. If a person has purchased the game and isn’t having fun but getting upset instead, I would rather that they take care of themselves and leave the match, than suffer for me.
I don’t think it’s “entitled” for a player to “go next”
I believe it’s far more entitled for us to expect that these players should bend over backwards to please the rest of us.
I’ve played this game since 2019. I’m a father, I work 60-80 hours a week, I’m lucky if I ever find 30 minutes to play. I will usually suffer through a difficult game to benefit my team. but I have also had tough days where I need to blow off steam, and I hop into a game only to get bullied/tunneled. I play games with the intention of having fun, if I’m having a tough day I’m not going to stick around and suffer through it. I’m heading to my next game and I fully expect anyone else to do the same if they are suffering similarly. So when I see a player DC, I don’t get upset because I understand what they’re likely dealing with.
I under that this is frustrating for a lot of us. But if we can’t empathize with these players, then this conversation won’t go anywhere.
Thanks for the videos, Scott.
Wonderfully said. This is TRUE empathy.
Sure, that's fine. They can leave the match and give their team a bot. But they never do. They have to cheat the system to avoid punishment, which makes it scummy.
@@ScottJund Take away that "punishment" then and problem solved.
it's not "scummy" at all, Nobody wants to be stuck in timeout for 20 minutes because they're too irritated to keep playing.
@@MementoMori7777I can’t comprehend the logic here. If they’re too irritated to play, what does a 20 minute matchmaking ban mean to them? They need to take a break and calm down lol.
@@Logan-bo7nt too irritated to keep playing THAT MATCH, genius. Not too irritated to keep playing the game.
Damn, left a fat comment on the other vid after this one came out, lol.
EDIT: Anyone else hate when the "fix" for something is a perk? I'm a lot happier with something like in built BT for anti-tunnel than being told to run a perk for slug and tunnel every match, just in case
Yes. Much like how the whole game is put together it's basically duct tape over a gaping hole.
I will NOT accept perks as solutions to base problems in DBD, for 3 reasons. 1. The perks become completely useless when the meta shifts (some better some worse, look at the book breaking one). 2. To use them, you have to take off a fun or interesting perk from your usual build, which is plain dumb. Excusable, sure, the other side has to run at least one slowdown these days, but I'd love a solution that made it where neither side had to. 3. Often, in solo que, no comms means you can't even effectively use the perks. How am I supposed to use shoulder on Nancy if Steve has already unhooked her before I get there? I can't tell Steve to wait, I'm solo. Or how do I tell my team not to trade yet, I have reassurance? I can't. They rush hook and all go down. These bandaids must stop. We need real solutions, short of an operation health this will not recover. Bhvr will either cave, or a lot of people will leave. Also, the issue with skull merchant was never her strength. I know she's weak now. Has been for awhile. I don't go next against her because of that, I go next because her entire design is flawed and she needs a full rework. That is the minimum that will fix this, not adjustments. She represents the very worst of bhvrs designs: the archetype that mindlessly plops her power down and gets value. She's not the only offender, and not the worst now, but it's still about the principle. Is it really that serious, you might ask? To me, yes. I love DBD. I have for years. Even when all that's left is bots, I will be playing. Ill find some way to, even after the servers shut down. I have too many precious memories in DBD. But it needs help, bad. Its been sick for a long time.
This comment is so funny and shows you have no idea what you're talking about. Since her nerf, Skull Merchant is practically required to actually use the change rotation feature to actually land scans, assuming the Survivors try even a little bit.
She is very weak now, but the nerf did encourange active power useage and punish passive power ussage
Perfectly said. ❤💯
@@vibrantoucan8890 Like I said, it doesn't matter what adjustments they do or how weak they make her. She needs a full rework before I, or the community, will ever accept her. The fact you couldn't comprehend that on the first read tells me you are the one who doesn't understand what they're talking about, or at least the mindset of the average player.
@@izzywn5802 Your complaint was literally that she can mindlessly plop her power down and get value. I explained to you why that wasn''t the case.
Since you didn't bring any counterarguments, I can only assume your position is that they removed her mindless playstyle, but they didn't change her enough from when she used to have it and therefore you go next against her? To protest a playstyle that isn't present on her anymore? Do you not see how silly you sound?
@@vibrantoucan8890 Your reading comprehension needs work. Yet again, and this time I will outline it for you: She needs a full rework before I or the community will accept her. It makes no difference that they "fixed" her, and she now requires more skill to use. Her PERCEPTION will not change until they completely rework her. The mechanics make no difference, we are trying to fix the publics perception and opinion. The only way to do that is to change her very nature.
Where is the line drawn between entitlement and being justified? It seems like everyone has a different take on this. There are those games where the killer has three downs before a single gen is close to being done. You are the only one doing gens and the gen you're doing has been hit by pain res three times and pop twice. The odds of you winning that aren't very high in solo queue. I kind of get why people give up in games like that. Games like that account for at least half of my matches where someone gives up.
The line is drawn where their suffering outweighs the other 3's suffering if they DC put together. Naybe a bit more to account for killer boredom.
According to scott only chess-merchant
Nothing else, lmao
@Philscooper And chess merchant hasn't been in the game since her release 2 years ago lmao
Entitlement when someone ruin Scott's matches. Justified when Scott doesn't have fun matches.
@@leonai97 wtf are you talking about
Your last point about empathy really hit the nail on the head. For a game about teamwork, it seems to me most people don't care about everyone else or just has a rather negative view about the other players in the game. I quit DBD like before Singularity released and people were becoming unbearable during Solo Q. I was trying my best to be the most respectful and helpful teammate I can be, sometimes even sacrificing myself for others hoping others would do the same on the next game or so, but people were just throwing. Not playing badly, just literally attempting to sabotage the game for everyone else, there was no sense of trust or cooperation. People just easily give up at the slightest inconvenience and want everything to go perfectly, and they would think it would happen on the next game.
I miss good games in where the survivors and killers were on a back and forth situation where anything can go either way. Everyone was trying their best, nobody was giving up, attempting to do whatever the most they can, even being synergistic and cooperative during crucial moments even though we could only communicate through limited gestures and movements.
The challenges and efforts put into that match was fun regardless if we overcame it or we simply fell short, that to me is the peak fun of DBD.
The sad thing is that this is not a DBD problem, but an online pvp gaming problem--most people are not suited to play online games, but they want to convince themselves they think they are...and as soon as they run into things in the game they don't like, they opt to not play the game/die go next/blame the devs/blame their teammates.
These kinds of people are a large part of every online gaming community and the one thing they all have in common is that everything is the fault of any aspect of the game (other players, devs) and not because of themselves
Yes, all games are imperfect
Yes, many developers are unable to fix and balance things quickly or adequately able to communicate with their player base
Yes, there are people who intentionally try to ruin the online gaming experience
But with that said, most people are simply not built to play online pvp games and will always come up with anything except for changing their mindset with how they approach the game they're playing.
These very same people want to optimize their play and use the best things the game offers them, but they have a problem that other people are doing the same.
They're sweating, but they complain about other players sweating.
I've been noticing this problem aswell and I totally agree with your comment. In basically every multiplayer game it's never the players fault (even if it obviously is) and some people seem to be so delusional that they think they are never wrong ever. I think this also ties into the whole entitlement issue that is especially bad in dbd. Even if the game were to be perfectly balanced I still think people would moan about "unfun" strategies.
As a killer main myself, i sometimes wonder why bhvr has made a 3 kill game the win condition. Ive always though incentivising a 2 kill game as a win would make more sense. This way the majority of the players, including the killer, will win an average game. Like if 3 surviors die on average of course the player base will be angry and toxic most of the time and the killer is incentivized to make this happen because they’re pressured to get at least 3 kills
Its how it was back in the day till I believe 2022. I think it was around chapter 6.1 when they changed direction, could be wrong. But ill def say the game has gotten way more annoying for survivor since then in my experience.
It doesnt make sense for a killer to win a game when half of the opposing team is still alive lol
@snewp_e2139 that's understandable from a competitive thought process but can't blame survivors for being burnt out when they are expected to lose most of their games but maybe have a couple "fun" 30-50 seconds chases. For me I can last pretty dam long in chase, but when against I'm playing guarenteed hit killers, then no one does gens it sucks the fun out.
It's not that killers are pressured to get a 3k, they just want to get it. The problem is BHVR not balancing the game around 50/50 and then people wonder why survivors are so willing to go next when they are supposed to lose the majority of their matches by design.
Survivors constantly teabagging and/or staying in the game until last second for years is a big part of this.
"Go next" is for fighting games where it take .3 seconds to start a new match. People really love loading screens and not playing the game
Playing one game and only one game is actually a problem for some of these people
yeah like toxic hunt showdown clans for example.
It's kinda what happens when a game relies on mtx so much 😬 People spend so much on fucking cosmetics and DLC that 1. they aren't buying other games and 2. get sunk cost fallacy issues and refuse to stop playing this one
Just had a game last night where a survivor killed themselves at 1 gen against a legion who barely used power and had 3 hooks. Legion ended up winning by slugging the 3 v 1.
Its actually unreal
So the legion had to slug in a 3v1? the guy who went next made a great choice, if the killer slugs, leave.
Ive seen people not get chased the entire game in basically this exact same scenario and do the same thing.
@@Kikrafis You are the problem with the game
@@Kikrafiswow its almost like there was one gen left… you make this game miserable for others
@@Kikrafisthe killer is incompetent enough to get more than 3 hooks with a legion. If your team suddenly collapses because they decide to slug you’re dogshit.
the first comment is mine and i stand by it, even if it seems harsh. i like watching your videos about how you try to deep dive on another problem with DBD and its community. but bro, at this point i dont care about this game, and clearly others dont either. i get on to play after work and if im not having fun, i go next or play a different game. it really does just boil down to that.
i mean thats fine and i understand it, its just super selfish
Then play another game? You're not even benefitting yourself.
@@sttate I am, by playing another game
I had a Doctor bringing me to RPD, there was this Aestri that went down at 5 gens and attempted to kill herself on hook. Then we managed to pop like 3 gens and what does the Doctor do? He downs all of us and slug us to bleed out. So like, someone gives up instantly and the rest of us get punished for it??? Dude was nodding and spam shocking.
The killers are on some shit these days, i hadn't played in weeks, now I'm not gonna play for weeks again. Thank god for Marvel Rivals.
It's a skill to spot a 'go next' early. Have to get out before the power trip sets in.
They hump me when they fiiiinally get me down. Last. In solo q. W hide for hatch teammates.
You had one shitty killer and all killer players are now awful? This Us vs Them shit is awful as fuck and so annoying. There's shitty players on both sides.
@@GenetMJF This is what you get from my comment? Go cry about "Us vs them" elsewhere, I didn't say every killer ever is on their period. You can't deny it's a large chunk of killers these days making the game miserable to play.
I play killer for the most part btw, I was doing my survivor event tome challenges last night and it felt like every game the killer I had was in a mood. Artist, Doctor, Nemesis. If it offends you I say killers are on some shit, idk what to tell you.
Human beings with morals: Darn, a 3v1. Better end it quickly so we can all move on.
Human beings with flexible morals: Yes, a 3v1. Easy win for me!
Killer mains: 3v1 means 3 more victims for me to torment and bleed out!
Killer mains deserve *NOTHING*.
I think the "turbotunneled" guy meant he shouldn't have to bring perks to counter tunneling when killers can tunnel basekit.
You should always have 1 anti tunnel perk. For a lot of killers it’s just to there advantage to tunnel. If you half decent with some anti tunnel perks the killer usually loses
"I shouldn't have to bring survival perks when the killer can kill you basekit 😤😤"
Oh, totally agree with that then. And as a killer, I shouldn't have to bring anti heal or gen regression perks either. Basekit ruin and sloppy am I right?!
@@morbidxecutionr1861 tbf if you’re survivor and don’t have anti tunnel and the killer tunnels you, you’re gonna die. If you’re killer (atleast a good killer with decent skill) you don’t need to bring regression or healing perks and can still win.. also it is annoying that it feels mandatory that one perk slot has to be anti tunnel and you can’t really run fun or diverse builds because you’ll just get tunneled every game. Killer main btw don’t cook me.
@@buraaqwasti7729if you’re a killer main then you know if you don’t run 1 or 2 perks for Gen slow down gens will fly the same should be said we can’t run fun or diverse builds for the same reason, do there shouldn’t b any arguing about it killer main
ngl ppl going next is the most miserable thing in this game right now. Like it's such a self-centered mindset in a game where we used to make fun of how altruistic people used to play. like altruism is still really common in games you're actually allowed to play in but it feels like such a big difference to where entire teams used to collapse to save one guy vs one guy just leaving everyone to play a worthless non-game because they're a little bored of playing against a certain killer.
I think the most miserable experience I think the game rn is getting slugged for 4 minutes every 2nd solo queue game I play
Having bots in the game makes sense because they weren't designed as replacement for ppl that don't wanna play, but for ppl that actually disconnect. So one person's bad wifi doesn't mean the game is ruined for everyone.
But the bots love to run edge map and just stand there. I've seen bots run into more shit than JRM and bots with Afk crows. Would be nice if they fixed them
32:44 the hypocrisy of saying this to survivor players, while the content creation space has actively preached at killer players for years about “ignoring the survivor rulebook”, “play for your own fun”, “entitled survivors” is rich.
Calling someone a survivor main has been an offhand way to invalidate people’s experiences and opinions for years now. Killers are at the peak of sweaty, toxic, selfish gameplay behavior lately, and this is the result.
Stop pandering to killer players who’s so much. The experience of survivor mains matters to. Most dbd creators who play consistently almost exclusively play killer or both pretty evenly, why do you think that is? Because survivor exclusively is unfun, and is considered an invalid way of experiencing the game, with invalid opinions and complaints by the community. FIX SURVIVOR.
im pandering to myself with how fucking bored i am playing 3v1s every 3-4 games
@ fair enough, I still find it more tolerable than Survivor these days.
What I can't wrap my head around is the 'go next' mentality for longer than like... a single match. And it's not just Dead By Daylight, it's ANY competitive game. I just can't fathom the necessity for these people to need to win every single time. It's a competitive game! By its very nature SOMEONE has to lose. Even if YOU are the one who is losing... Who cares? Like, legitimately, you're not even going to remember that match come tomorrow yet you're so incessantly hard-focused on the impossibility of winning all your matches you just immediately give up the second you experience any adversity?
How do these people make it through life even lol
EDIT: Unironically I think the solution is different game modes. Someone self-kills on hook in 2v8 it's a lot less impactful to the rest of the game. Or hell just implement some arcade lobbies where you can tweak values akin to Overwatch. Just let the 'go next' players go do anything else for a week while also tapping that weird DBD addiction since they're unable to find another, more enjoyable game to play.
being slugged for 5 minutes is not the same as "just losing" 🤦
@@user-fe3sx2hz4d dude if I get slugged for 5-minutes it's not "gg go next" it's "sweet, I got time to get my bio break out of the way". Like, I dunno what to tell you man - pull up Netflix on the side or something.
Also what does this have to do with killing yourself on first hook?
In other games there is an actual punishment, removing points from your rank for example or muting you for X matches, on DBD there is not a real punishment
@@user-fe3sx2hz4dIt's funny when people say this in response to people intentionally going down and letting themselves self end on hook. Showing they didn't actually listen to what's being talked about.
@@aeonamadipissing and shitting is what the prelobby is for, you're the teammate that makes other survivors go next hth
Dbd balancing really is just "Sometimes the only fair way to do something is to make sure everyone feels screwed over" the game
Is the actual solution to display the MMR rating publicly or at least to yourself? Think about it, you're working for an invisible system with zero tangible reward implementations, this circumvents the ranked discussion (26:31) while also keeping the current SBMM system in the game which the devs will refuse to ever overhaul. My understanding is that Scott's belief of going next stems from veteran player burnout or general burnout. I believe the root cause for burnout is trying to play utilizing a system that reinforces "sweaty" behavior intrinsically at the medium to higher levels of the competitor pool through an ineffectual matchmaking approach that both fails as a marker of player skill and falsely denotes what the game's inherent win objectives should be.
I believe having even just the number of MMR available to view would immediately shift players' playstyles both away and toward toxic strategies in a function that makes sense. Sweaty players will play until it is maxed, in which they will discontinue that playstyle after having reached the upper limit of the game's matchmaking pool. Simultaneously, players who want to play casually will actively see how their in-match performance affects their matchmaking, possibly altering their perceptions of what it means to win or remain at their current level. This evens out the approach in the mindsets of all players before a match begins, and those who want to continuously improve or stay at the highest possible MMR will have something tangible to work toward rather than only win-streak goals.
funniest thing about people who go next on hook is that it’s always dudes with 10000 hours being mad that they got downed because their massive ego
Thats gotta be 1% of the go next ive seen , its always casuals
@@flyingdutchman8399 really? I definitely get those day 1 megs and dwights throwing my matches but that’s not their fault. it’s mainly the high prestige players i see just cleansing dull totems to intentionally waste time and throw the game, or hiding all match, or going next on hook i don’t know why
@@flyingdutchman8399 maybe i’m just in the survivor MMR where i get high hour players that are still bad at the game 😂
Absolutely. I rarely ever see someone who's inexperienced give up
Watching Scott squint in confusion at some of the simplest statements, is very entertaining.
Scott denying the fact that this game is heavily killer sided now is hillarious.
When I play solo Q killers have a kill rate of about 80-90%.
When I play swf, they only have like 5-50% (depending on the skill level of my friends - full squad sweatlords vs chilled duoing).
Most of the DC happens in solo Q games. Surprise surprise.
This game isn’t that much killer side tough literally you talk about solo q but even there solo q alway get buff without forgetting in hight mmr u have to play strong killer
Also the game is meant to be killer side just like Friday the 13 the main role literally is killer and even with tsht survivor still got a shit ton of buff and basekit stuff
@@Dildo-pd4lybad argument with Friday the 13th because in that game you only get a chance at becoming killer so it makes more sense to be geared toward that
do any of you people actually watch the videos you comment on, i specifically addressed the kill rates
@@ScottJund You are talking about average numbers. Not about the variance within the numbers. In fact solo q is just unplayable anymore for the most time. The argument with "mimimi devs have adressed camping and tunneling now you get basekit bt and off the record (which can be outplayed by instant hit after unhook), improved hud and useless anticamp mechanic which is not shown on the hud" is not valid since survivors in general got nerfed so much (maps, items, gen times, perks like dh, ds, mft, boons) that those little improvements for solo q are way overcompensated by the nerfs. To play around these nerfs requires team work coordination level of a good swf which can rarely be seen in solo q.
It's just a fact. Even experienced survivors struggle to survive for more than 20 seconds on such bullshit maps like rancid abbotoir and then there are such overtuned killers like buffed nowhere to hide nurse or no life no friends blights which snowball the matches right from the beginning. No wonder so many people dc or give up that early.
It’s really as simple as making a ranked queue, casual players will mostly play casual and the sweats will flock to ranked and just exponentially increase the ban timer for leaving a ranked game
Call it entitlement or not but I usually “Go next” when I’m playing against a super sweaty Nurse or Blight, a killer who just focuses me and doesn’t let me play the game IE: tunneling, only chasing me, standing near hook but not trigging a face camp meter, and lastly slugging. If I queue up for a game and I’m spending more time on hook or slugged than actually playing the game it’s not a fun experience, that’s why I don’t stream DBD anymore and moved on to other games
8:14 I swear if these people had any influence in the game's changes, they'd make it so that if you go into a game as SM, the game instantly ends and the SM player gets doxxed
This will harm the Zubat Scott romance
Personal opinion is that saying Bhavior has "added things to combat tunneling, camping, etc." doesn't help, because you never know what killer it's going to be so you have to prepare by guarding blindly against all shitty potential strategies? So OtR, DS, DH, and exhaustion perk? In order to block against just general strats, not abilities, you have to dedicate every perk slot blindly and even then your best bet vs. a tunneling killer is you have to get an extra hit on me because of DS.
Have killers who camp and tunnel take a fat blood point penalty for tunneling (75%) and an ability for survivor to reslot one perk while on 2nd hook if they've been hooked or tunneled ( so they can retroactively add a anti-tunneling perk).
I’m sorry but no. I’m a survivor main and hate them all but penalizing BP gain for trying to win is not a good option.
Penalizing bp is a horrible take
Penalizing bp doesn't do much when people have hundreds of copies of add-ons for their killer and they can still get bp through archives, dailies, weekly box in the store, etc. You wouldn't be punishing people that much at all. Anyway, if you say killers who tunnel and camp get no bp, what do you think is going to happen when they can't afford add-ons? Not play nice, they're going to tunnel harder to win and then get the add-ons later after they do their dailies and all.
Bp is pretty worthless. And people will always play how they want to play.
Going next isn’t a problem when it’s completely valid. There are games where the killers playstyle is just completely boring and your team is VERY inefficient so losing is quite literally the only option you have. So instead of making myself suffer with an already boring game and weak team I’ll just save myself the time and go next. Going next at the sight of a killer is insane no matter what.
Yh no
i dont believe any of those exist anymore. Old Legion, chess merchant, condemn sadako - they're all gone. now you just have standard tunneling/camping etc
@@Tyekiller115 yh yh.
@@ScottJundokay Scott- and I have two hours to play the game on a good day. I am not that competitive. I am playing to have fun- I immediately know that isn't happening when clown is hard tunneling default meg at 5 gens
With those games I'd at least stick around to get into chase to try to improve at looping to get better
34 minute video? going next
It so funny the people who says you can't "force" them to play a game they don't want to, my brother in Christ, you hit that search button.
When a killer doesn't care about your fun - you go king, such a chad, he's so right about that.
When your surv teammate doesn't care about your fun - so selfish, this is what's wrong with dbd, let me make 5 videos on this
?? is this addressed at me? does anyone here even watch my content im losin my fucking mind
100%
It is and I do.
The original comment was meant to be a half-joke type of thing, since I can't recall you ever openly defending selfish killer play styles.
I mostly play soloq and I absolutely hate it when people DC, but it still annoys me that you use the label "psychopathic lack of empathy" on DCing survivors when killers constantly bring builds that stomp 99% of survivor teams.
No, it's not people who played overbuffed thrill of the hunt, or play nurse with 4 slowdowns, or go on a 2000+ killer streak that lack empathy, the dcing survivors are the real selfish assholes
@@vexxed6851 what even is this argument? why should your opponent care about your fun in an online pvp game? What are you saying? Obviously it is different on the survivor side because you are playing a team game. The equivalent of killers not caring about the survivors fun would be survivors not caring about the killers fun? I swear I am losing braincells reading some of these replies
@@loxurloxurs5517
"Why should your opponent care about your fun in an online pvp game?"
Because people will refuse to play with them-- ie, DC or AFK.
Why should your allies care about your fun in an online pvp game? Because they're "supposed to?"
I think think BHVR should put up a poll or something on twitter or whatever DBD website they use and ASK survivors what's the deal and what they would like to see that fixes it? Maybe even have a live stream and just have a cordial, good faith conversation.
No insults, no "salty survivor" this or "entitlement" that. Ask the question, look for the biggest gripes and address them as best they can. It won't fix everything, but it'll address something and it'll build a bit of good faith within the community.
They have the player satisfaction survey open on their website right now. Not sure how long they're accepting responses. I think they do the survey more than once per year, but at least annually
@KimPins I've never heard anything about that. I'm guessing a lot of people haven't either. So while this is good, I think posting something now, while this Go Next Epidemic is hot, might do the game better. Hell, post the concern and question on the website too. Having a customer satisfaction survey is nice, but I don't think it's going to get a lot of people to take the initiative like BHVR putting out that they're trying to address this particular issue, you know?
As a person who's had to do satisfaction surveys, they work best when you go around CONSTANTLY TELLING people to use them for the major issue currently at play, not just making one and leaving it there.
Balancing the game around 50/50 would make a drastic impact. When one side is expected to be fine with losing the majority of their matches it's not surprising that so many survivors are willing to go next.
This is the ideal situation
But they also add basekit mori with EVERYONE'S disaproval and made the twins rework (ptb) instead of asking "hey is this good?" Only to scrap it because of how everyone hated it for good reason.
Average dbd player iq showcase
2:29 this is exactly the problem. If the solution ti toxic gameplay is "well, just run meta perks", why even let survivors choose their perks? Why give survivors the option of making fun builds if just attempting to have fun automatically means losing. Its your fault for trying to have fun, you should have been trying to wim like theres money on the line every time!
And when every survivor is following this advice, all using only perks so strong even playing toxic doesnt beat it, hiw the hell can a killer beat those builds by playing fair? How can anyone whi doesn't run Nurse or Blight beat a SWF with meta builds who can all unhook themselves, pick themselves off the ground, heal themselves or each other faster than it takes to chase, and have endurance constantly? What else can a killer do but play even more toxic, especially if there is one weak link survivor who joined solo que with trying to use a fun build? He might be the only kill they get this round.
Yeah, i try not to go next in regular queue. But if i get one after work for a couple games for the event and I just want to go for some builds that go with silly snowman plays, but the killer just wants to either tunnel one guy out with their meta build and S tier killer. I aint sticking around.
I actually dont think I've seen one killer have fun with the snowmen or anything. Most game is straight to business, and tons of blights, nurses and spirits.
@@Hako_wareAs a killer main only reasons I try harder in this snowman event is either blood points or because Snowmen are body blocking me. Or reveal my location when I just start. Survivors also are being sweaty I am not enjoying seeing how many people complain about killers without also saying how many survivors are still being ultra sweats in the event. All I have to do is match their energy but it's the killers fault for doing their job lol
@@plaguefellow4956 I main killer. Far more survivors up for a laugh than killers. I can quite often 2 hook every survivor before killing them and still win.
I cant imagine having to try hard because a snowman blocked me and I can't figure out I can press q, or prentend a survivor somehow now suddenly has a GPS tracker because a snowman went off.
Its an event, go to the normal queue if you cant switch off the need to get a 4k without exception.
ill put this extremely simply:
if you can ONLY have fun by bringing very specific perks (as in you won't have fun if you bring anything else), then you do not fundamentally enjoy DbD as it is, and it would be very unhealthy to play it for longer periods of time consistently.
@namjeff1419 that's exactly why I stopped playing DBD. Because "the way it is" is trash. It is the absolute worst balanced game I have ever played. Most people still playing are people who know it's crap but hope it gets better because it used to be a lot of fun and such a unique experience that unfortunately doesn't really have a decent alternative in all of gaming. The rest are people who can only feel pleasure from a sense of superiority and mindlessly defend anything they excel slightly at as if criticism of the game were a personal attack on them.
If you have a mindset where you don’t want to play the game, but you keep queueing up to play it. That’s not entitlement, you’re addicted. Uninstall
"I don't understand why no one has a shred of empathy in this game anymore"
That's the fun part, no one ever had. I can remember a lot of DBD youtubers throwing as many "TOXIC" in the title of their video as they possibly could, killer or survivor, and have 0 care about the game's health. And that's because they just could, like all players. You can't directly control that.
Talking to the community is just a patchwork, and it can make some (small) changes for those who are reached. But the real solution needs to come from the whole development team. Sadly, you can't do their work for them.
Kinda glad this video was suggested to me on my TH-cam page, for the last week of playing dbd and I cannot exaggerate this enough.... EVERY SINGLE GAME of dbd that I've played there's been at least 1 person "going next" whether it's due to them being found first or going down to quickly or they just don't like the killer we got paired up against.... I can't express how frustrating it is to hear that sound effect go off when someone leaves every single game over and over again when you just wanna play a full match and that's if they aren't the other version of "going next" by killing themselves on hook as soon as the game begins.... I need a break from this, btw this is just me venting thank you for the time you made putting this video together.
Forgot to add for the last week during this experience please don't crucify me.
Killers give up just as often and dc anytime you actually have a chance to win also they can dodge lobbies with 4 man flashlight for example but if you allowed that for survivor nobody would ever get a blight or nurse queue
What’s wrong with people dodging certain lobby’s? I don’t do it nor does it really seem to be an issue but how is it hurting the game
@ I don’t think it’s an issue. Just think survivors should be given same option and then nobody would go next. Either both get it or neither
@ but there is a huge difference between a killer dodging and a survivor dodging
I am not sure why killers are allowed to see survivor items before the match starts, but the other way around would be terrible. A killer could only make their perks sweatier or more chill or just put on lightborn/franklin's demise, but survivors could just tailor their perks and also map offering to effectively counter the killer and make sure their perks are always useful against any killer they face.
I do hate that the items can be seen. The killer should know you are bringing something but not what. However its a strat you can use. Like when the totem build was so popular I would just hold a map and watch as killer after killer dodges the lobby until we got one not running it and I would switch to a med kit or something. But it is like that. Keep getting rekt by totems? Switch to a map/totem build and watch as you never face a totem build (outside noed) again since the killer will always dodge the lobby if they see it.
I just want a killer ban system because that would solve the subjective fun argument, but at the same time increase the ban time on dc's/ suicide timer for each killer you ban as a survivor queue
It would kill the game
I also wanted to say back in the day most of the killers were bearable, and now there are too many killers for the devs to balance/make actually be fun to play against. So I think survivor should have killer ban system to at least weed out their unfun killers
@ that would kill the game if u have people being able to be like “ I hate this this and this killer so I won’t play against them” and then u have some killers who can’t load into a match since everyone complains about them
@Tyekiller115 well if there is enough people who ban a killer enough times to where they can't play there might actually be a problem with that specific killer
@ people still hate skill merchant even tho she is one of the weakest killers in dbd history at the current moment.
I'm sorry but this is so dumb as a community to view things this way. Over the past few years killers have started not caring about the fun of "entitled survivors", who don't like getting slugged, tunneled or playing against an annoying playstyle. People are entitled to have fun, and in most matches other players make that hard if not impossible. This is the result of killer players "not following the survivor rulebook" over the last year or so.
This is not survivor players all of a sudden being selfish babies. Most killer players have been selfish babies for a few years now, and this behavior has hit a fever pitch over the last year. This game is ass as survivor rn. I find it very hard to have fun on survivor over the last few months, it's never been this unfun. I've played almost since launch.
That’s your problem you’ve been playing this same repetitive ass game since launch. Eventually the game will no longer be fun or enjoyable and that’s ok but it’s on you to realize that and take a break or quit and play something else.
For years I've had to see killer mains repeat the adage, "I'm not responsible for anyone else's fun, I'm going to play how I want" as an excuse to sweat their asses off and eliminate someone at 5 gens and make their time completely miserable anyway, but *now* empathy is suddenly a talking point, lol. Not saying the go next mentality is right, but it's just funny how that works.
Best comment i've seen so far
Best comment i've seen so far !
One of these is just playing the game as intended, the other is actively sabotaging everyone else's fun with no benefit for yourself that wouldn't be achieved by just not playing DBD.
@@MrBlueWaooWaoo I'd argue that going out of your way to tunnel someone out at 5 gens is actively sabotaging that person's fun, too. I'm just kind of over the whole "well it's in the game so it's okay" excuse, especially when map offerings are part of the game and as much as I enjoy Scott's content, he literally used to go next at the sight of certain map offerings. Survivors used to be able to hold killers hostage in matches back when there was no EGC. Just because something's in the game doesn't make it inherently okay to just dump on someone else's experience no matter which side of the community you're on, that's the whole point I'm trying to make about having empathy.
@@DawnIgnitedYou assume that being tunneled is inherently unfun. I love being tunneled because killer interaction is really all I want in the game.
There are also in game mechanics and perks that directly nerf tunneling. What game are you playing?
Green Medkit most definately needed a nerf but Behaviour being them gutted all healing instead. Removeing the +50% from the green was all that was needed.
I agree with you Scott, but I remember a time when you had the POV where because we bought the game, we should be able to do whatever we want, regardless if you’re not making it fun for other players.
over the years ive changed my mind, im not sure if thats supposed to be a gotcha or anything, people change their opinions over time.
@ no definitely not a gotcha moment, sorry if it came across that way. I meant it more as a “what changed?” And “why” kind of statement. I didn’t make that clear; my mistake.
If this franchise died no one would lose sleep except streamers
“Go next” are like griefers in GTA online, they don’t want to play the game, they just want to stop YOU from playing it
You know, realistically, I've just given up on the whole trying to solve this idea because you can't fix entitlement without rebuilding from the foundation up it's a learned behavior. No matter how many ideas you propose or fixes you come up with people will always have This idea that they are entitled to be able to play the way they want without someone who's not in their position having any input.
Killer players are extremely entitled as well. This is a two way issue.
@@stevenobrien7686I fully agree, actually. I would say this epidemic is more on the survivor end atm because of the nature of how matches play out, but I do think the real cancer in the community is the entitlement of both ends of the game.
That, combined with the us vs. them nature of DBD kind of results in this extremely muddy discussion. Everyone airing grievances, however related or unrelated, etc. etc. all advocating for their pet issues. This shit happens in other games but the fact that there are uneven “sides” with wildly different gameplay actually makes it a little messed up on the DBD end. Idk what you can even do about it, this game is like an examination into how early human wars occurred
@@stevenobrien7686 its just more pronounced on the survivor side because in 95% of matches, the killer is indeed the power role by a large margin. so they tend to hold the power to make someones game miserable compared to how often survivor groups get to do the same thing
@ exactly
Just get rid of DC penalties so people are less incentivized to kill themselves on hook to avoid the penalty and will instead just DC right away and have a bot take their place. That way you at least get to play the match out instead of being down a man that intentionally killed themselves.
I don’t really think the folks complaining about skull merchant still are misinformed. I think it’s more that they want to punish the people who play her at all because of how she used to be and want to punish BHVR for making her that way in the first place. The people commenting on your videos are certainly up to date on changes.
This. It's about punishing the player for playing that killer. SM still holds that stigma to her. People know she's different now, but she is still SM. Without a complete rework, like basically making a new killer, people will always hate her and treat her this way.
@@VeilInfinity well boo hoo to them. If they wanna give me free bloodpoints by being petty, let them.
Making the "Go Next Strategy" only a player issue is a bit shortsighted and kinda makes the entitlement question irrelevant because at this point it comes to subjective viewpoints. Both parties are in these cases entitled. Behaviour can definetely reduce the frustration for survivors by actually not only making "fair play" more rewarding for the killer but by actually punishing "toxic" strategies not only making it less attractive.
One quick fix for "Go Next" leavers would be to give the remaining survivors a significant bonus to repair speed and other actions to compensate for the loss. That way it would stay more competetive. You could also give unique abilities to survivors that only activate if someone dies early like 50% self-care speed or unbreakable or DS to the rest. That would punish early game tunneling and give compensation to the other survivors.
Is this the perfect solution? No, but it's definetely tweakable and better than what we have. If you completely disagree, than in my opinion you are as entitled as the people that go next, since you don't want to solve the problem by giving survivors something, you simply want to point fingers.
The issue with giving the remaining Survivors compensation buffs is that it potentially gives the leavers more justification. It would have to be something that's *inarguably* worse than having a 4th teammate, so things like unbreakable/DS no, a repair speed bonus I think would be better.
Thé issue there is that if the mechanic is any kind of useful or good then you’ll run into issues where players are gonna start letting people die on first hook just so they can get the bonus
Im sorry but saying “if you disagree with my solution then you’re entitled” is *psychopathic*. You CANNOT fix this issue of entitlement no matter what happens. The best way to discourage this behavior is incentives. Buffing survivors if someone dies too early, while genius on paper, would be way too difficult to balance and would skewer with matches even in the event that survivors DONT EVEN GIVE UP EARLY.
There are already so many measures put in place for tunneling, adding more stuff would completely kill the viability of that strategy and will just lead to more slugging/camping.
I just think it’s a particularly difficult bandaid fix because it’s hard to determine the point in a match that a kill becomes a kill, or if it was purposeful on the side of the survivor. Not every survivor who gives up does it at first hook. By the nature of the game I also personally just don’t think giving either side random buffs as a “fix” is a good way of going about things, like adding random haste to killers behavior doesn’t know how to change.
As sad as it is I think a forfeit system would be a good starting point whilst the devs try and figure out a better idea. If someone leaves or dies early, the survivors could start a vote to forfeit the match. Dunno what voting majority would be but imagine it would help eliminate a lot of the downtime in matches that survivors are fairly sure they won’t win. Would prevent being slugged and bled to death as a team, too.
The one that goes next is 4x more entitled and entitled in a far petier way. The people who don't go next aren't really entitled for expecting people to try to play the game they queued up for. On the other hand the person who goes next thinks the games wronged them and they are more important than the other 4 people.
Simple as that.
I mean its a complete failure of game design if people feel they are locked into an inevitable death/loss that is assured not to be fun. well designed games dont ask you to keep playing when it isnt fun anymore, and if they do like a fighting game thats because you have full agency to prevent/escape the situation.
Tunneling would be more fun to face if it didn't destroy your end of the game score and 50/50 leave you dead while everyone else escapes. It might feel nice once in a while to get everyone out, but when it's almost every game that you're looping the killer for 5+ gens, getting no other points than chase points, and then dying... it gets pretty repetitive. Not saying every game is like that, but when it is... it hurts the soul.
I would trade long chases over bloodpoints every game if I could. Chases are the only reason I play DBD (it's the most strategic part). If you want bloodpoints, you can go to BP farming servers (like I have) and get 200,000 BP every game. BP means nothing when I'm playing a game for fun.
thats the thing though, people have to reevaluate their measures of success in the game. IMO if you have long chases as survivor (and hopefully not throwing every god pallet), you're doing good. even if you get tunneled to death, as long as your other three teammates escape then you did your job just fine.
i agree with you in alot of ways, but when it comes to anti tunneling/camping things, or more information, that kind of thing shouldve been added long ago, its nice to finally have it but there are so many things that they shouldve worked on agers ago but behaviours focus is in the wrong spot in alot of ways, the fact that the mobile port already has stuff that the main game should have but doesnt is really silly, and it wouldnt even be that hard of an implementation. Their focus seems to be on bringing more people to the game instead of properly optimizing, the game and adding more features that make it more engaging
DS should work after each hook because DS against high mobility killers does nothing. I bring anti tunnel perks , I get slugged. I’m not one to dc or give up on hook and it’s extremely frustrating when someone else does it, but killers play extremely toxic now. Bleeding people out the entire timer or hard tunneling. Most perks to get you out of situations only work once and then you’re just dead anyway usually. Events are even worse. The only way I can enjoy events is playing as killer so I can do the different activities behavior put on the map. I don’t think killers should just hand the game to survivors because everyone wants to win, but the game is super miserable when I can’t even play the game when I’m in the match.
Thats a killer issue however. DS is useless vs Nurse sure but its completely game winning vs a Myers or Trapper. Bhvr has needed to smash the killers like a sandwich in terms of power level, bringing the higher tier killers closer to the weaker one and then they can BUFF killers overall and there will be less outliers in terms of broken AND bad killers
Yh no
You're hurting the weaker killers too much and the survivor can then just use DS offensively. Body block and force killer to down them but be unable to actually hook them for a full minute.
A lot of killers were parroting the "your fun is not my problem" and "survivor rulebook heh..." mantras to defend bullshit strats or unfun gamestyles until solos decided to pay back with the same coin and suddenly people should feel empathic, care about other players and mindless stomps arent fun at all, empathy for me but not for thee, we have reached a point were many solos dont even care if someone suicides as it gives a reason to suicide and go next too and I dont blame them.
The only solution is BHVR getting rid of most frustrating shit, punishing players wont do shit (and cant be realistically done), encouraging sides to be kinder wont do shit, youtubers complaining wont do shit, you dont want people throwing? Remove frustrating stuff and theyll eventually enjoy most trials again, only BHVR has the power to do this.
Hey Scott do you remember when killers started to say “don’t care about the survivors fun, it’s just yours that matters. Tunnel and camp and slug away”? I do and I remember that THAT mindset started around the 6.1.0 patch, coincidentally the patch that killed solo survivor the most. I just LOVE how killers are regretting the table flip of “I’m focusing on my fun, sorry for you to be the victim of it.”
You have this imaginary evil figure in your mind you associate every single killer with, i play killer 90% of the time and almost every game is 2 hooking then goofing around. Not everyone is a stereotype
@@HunterGoldhahn yeah. Noob killers run LB and hump the last surv. Bc they somehow didn't see Meg standing in my tile forcing me to take two hits. Like.
Knowledgeable killers like myself will have fun with good loppers, be funny, let the last one go who worked the hardest.
@ so, crazy thing random replier, your 90% of matches will actually be probs 5% of the rest of those survivors’ matches for that day. Did you ever realize that those survivors will go into other matches with blight, nurse, and spirits with try hard and exhausting stuff? Did you ever realize that once you hit a certain mmr, you’re just eternally suffering in solo queue? Or did you ever realize that for the past year now, killers have been progressively slugging to high hell to confirm the 4K? Yeah, it’s definitely a me problem, surely not the killers taking matches so seriously that they completely ignore the fact that this is a game meant to be having fun. Im not saying it ain’t survivor too, but god damn killers are meant to control the matches flow of energy. recently they’ve been so negative, I’m SO glad you could have fun in most of your matches. I’d LOVE to have a killer like you in 90% of my matches too :)! Cause 90% is SOOOO MUCH for farming matches.
Yes, but people who were saying "don’t care about the survivors fun..., etc" don't care about them giving up on hook rn, that's the point. Those types of people don't want interesting matches, they want the other side to feel miserable, DC or kys on hook is a win for them. But there are also people that actually want an interesting matches (both survivors and killers) and they are against players giving up, bc they are ruining the match for everybody, for both sides.
@ wow where are those people? When I’m in my matches, those people just aren’t a thing. Face it, in high mmr, you are NOT getting a fun match that isn’t some tunelling, Tag backing, camping, or end game slugging.
I’ve played this game since pc release and to see some people bitch about low tier killers baffles me the mentality is at an all time low haha
"Low tier killers" most of them are not actually that bad, and a lot of lists are based vs experienced 4 man groups, as far as I can tell.
Because those are selfish, 1v1 takes. A lot of people hate Clown. He's weak but it's about the chase aspect. Same thing with Deathslinger. Ghost Face. Having to look around all the time and scan constantly hoping to avoid an expose and one shot. He's still weak af, but it's about what he can do specifically against me, not about the ability to handle all 4 survivors.
And that's a big chunk of the greater argument. Survivor is meant to be a team game, and survivor usually thrives by all 4 players doing their part. But that's not the mentality. The mentality is how it impacts the individual. My chases aren't fun, I get found first, I can't use my perks, etc., etc. Because of that, survivor will always be hell for some people, and you can't force people to care about more than themselves.
Something that might work that could make everyone happy including the "go next" ass holes is letting survivors see what killer they're going against in the pregame lobby. Killers get to see what items survivors are holding, and the only work around is to swap to an item just before the game starts but that's "toxic." I've never liked the idea of my flash bangs being invalidated because killers saw one of my teammates was running flashlight in the pregame lobby and added lightborn to their build. But I don't get the benefit of taking my fast healing perks out when going against a plague, or aura reading perks off when going against stealth killers. I think that'd only be fair and it might help solve these people's problem. Either that or maybe the go next kids need to grow a pair and hopefully behavior will make it so killers can't see items in pregame lobby.
Being able to see the killer in the lobby can be detrimental for a lot of killers.
Not to mention it allows people to soft ban killers much more easily. You have 4 people in a lobby, each one has killers they really dislike going against, so now you have to wait in lobby until every survivor agrees that they want to go against a particular killer.
It also allows survivors to snipe killers by picking perks that counter them and cycling lobbies until they hit the killer they're trying to counter.
@@utes5532couldn’t have said it any better
@@utes5532That's fair. What might work better then is being able to see some kind of "killer type" or what the killer excels at. Stealth, Traversal, Chase, Anti-Loop, Projectile, Map control etc. That way you still have some kind of idea what build to put on but not a killer specific counter build. Either that or like I said, I hope they implement something where killers can't see items. Because when I go against a plague running lightborn 3 out of my 4 perks are immediately invalidated and you can bet your ass I'm not getting out because of it. And maybe Id still have to suck it up about not being able to make use of my healing perks, but at least the killer didn't see 3 people running flashlights and put on lightborn because they can see items while survivors have no pre game Intel. (Sorry off topic) But seriously hate this, and it might help at least a little with the go next kids without any killers getting soft banned... And for the record I do still play those matches where my perks get invalidated it's just frustrating.
@@utes5532 they should be able to avoid the killers they don’t like though.
@@OrdellRob Neat, let's add a banlist into the game where you can de-select any killers you don't wanna play against.
I heard the queus were too fast anyway
I started playing this game sometime between when Hag and Doctor came out so I've seen it evolve over the years. I came back to it a month ago after a long break, and wow... I've never seen it this bad in terms of survivors giving up. Honestly at this point I am just fed up with it. I play solo queue survivor 50% of the time and killer the rest. As killer, I feel like I have to deliberately pick a non-meta killer and moderate my gameplay so survivors aren't losing too hard, or guess what, someone gives up completely. Solo queue survivor is MISERABLE. I've been trying to complete a tome challenge to escape as David King for the past 2 days, and I literally can't do it because most of my games end early because of someone killing themselves on their first hook. Even against killers that aren't particularly oppressive. Each time, I stick through the whole game and try to accomplish as much as possible, but it's sad knowing that winning is unlikely unless the killer goes easy on us in 3v1.
The one time I actually left the game early in the past month was against a Singularity on Dead Dawg Saloon running a slug build and trying to down all 4 survivors. The killer didn't go for a single hook, even when it made sense to do so, but instead spammed those biopods around the map. At one point, I used an EMP before picking up a downed survivor only for the killer to still somehow have a biopod somewhere that still shot us. The killer would just teleport to all of us in turn to knock us down, and we spent the whole game either on the ground or trying to find someone else on the ground while their aura is hidden by Knock Out. Completely miserable experience. After about 15 mins of this, after being downed 3 separate times, one of my teammates left the game. I left the next time the killer found me. The reason I left though was that the game was incredibly boring and just seemed to never end.
I can't stand survivors that quit on the first down/hook. Worst of all, they usually kill themselves on hook to avoid the DC penalty, which means the rest of us don't even get a bot to help us. If you quit at the start of the game like this, you deserve to be banned. I do not care about the whining that "killer X is broken" or "map Y sucks" or "I got downed too fast on my first chase so f it". I used to play this game when 5-blink Nurse with NOED was a thing. When moris could kill survivors on the first down. When killers could facecamp and there was no anti-camp mechanic or way for survivors to unhook from the side, and they would get grabbed during the unhook animation by the killer. Before the built-in Borrowed Time for the unhooked survivor. You have no idea how much better the game is than it used to be back in the day. And I've seen so many games that started off strong for the killer turn around spectacularly for survivors. But it requires survivors to stay focused on the objective. When you give up, you throw all of that away.
If you hate playing this game so much that you feel the need to quit on the first hook, do us all a favor and uninstall. You can play Minecraft or whatever other more relaxing game is preferable to you. Please don't ruin it for the rest of us with your attitude. You are not justified in doing what you are doing. You are acting like a big baby, and it's pathetic.
“if survivors ruin the match.. its wrong and they need to grow up and play something else”
“if killers ruin the match… you cant complain because thats how theyre allowed to play… stop crying, you can just waste all 4 perk slots to counter something a killer can abuse basekit”
Lmao this. Don't forget that you magically need a ton of perks to counter you being sluggrd, a ton other to counter your teammates being sluggrd, a ton other to counter you being tunneled and a ton other to counter your teammate being tunneled. Let me just magically equip 20 perks to counter playstyles that killers can do without spending a single perk slot on them
how did you possibly get this from what i said? i said its different between survivor and killer because with survivor you are stuck in a doomed match and with killer the match instantly ends.
@@ScottJund I wasnt quoting you.
I was more ‘making fun of the stereotypical consensus’.
But i hear what youre saying… its just, i dont believe what happens after a dc is important in any sense… i believe we need to look at why people dc in the first place.
Yeah that whole ‘silent killers are broken’ was ridiculous, but at the same time ‘everyone dislikes different stuff more than someone else’ 🤷🏽♂️
Dont you think itll be healthier and potentially more enjoyable to completely shift the meta after 3-4 years now?
maybe focus it more on ‘each killer is viable despite mobility, because their strength comes from their powers combined with unique perk builds, player game sense and strats’… instead of it being ‘the same 8-10 killers, using pop+painres, proxy camping while holding a 3 gen’.
Yes it could break the game… but not if this big change was in production for years and all nicks and crevices where bugs can hide get polished… all perks reworked to suit… all killer powers reworked to suit… ect…
I think one thing no one has brought up is how significant the effect of the archive challenges are on the casual scene. If someone has a challenge to drop 5 pallets during chase and they got 4/5 last game, they will often just run at the killer to get a chase, drop a pallet, and then kill themselves on hook to start their next challenge faster. If they have a challenge to unhook themselves, they will hide in a corner with Deliverance and wait to make sure someone else gets hooked before them so they can activate their perk. I've been in matches where two people have challenges to get hook saves and race each other to every hook (knowing the other is also going for the save) while not doing gens, and then insult each other in post game chat for stealing the unhooks they needed for their challenge. If someone has a challenge to stun the killer, they will run at the killer with Head On and DS and give up on hook once they get the stun(s) they need. Basically for a lot of solo queue casual players, the game is about archive challenges. I think this is because escaping relies on teamwork, but an archive challenge is usually something you can do yourself regardless of whether your team is winning or losing on gens, and solo queue players don't want to have to rely on the RNG of a getting a good team to accomplish something meaningful in the game (it's also a bit of a self-fulfilling prophecy since becoming an 'archive survivor' means you become the kind of 'bad RNG teammate' you were originally hoping to avoid).
Blame killers and their "your fun isnt my responsibility" bs. If thats the case, your fun isnt MY responsibility, either. People dont like the shoe being on the other foot.
It's funny how people rarely talk about killer DCs, which ruin the match for the four survivors when they were actually doing good. If the killer is having a bad game and "goes next", the match immediately ends for everyone involved.
@@Darcalus when the killer leaves, the game is over and survivors get the win, he literally talked about why its different
brother as someone who has been in DBD since 2016, that mindset is not unique to killers and has been around for YEARS. You are outing yourself as someone with heavy survivor bias if you think killers are solely responsible for that.
@@MeepFromSpongebob you and scott are both missing the point. when survivors DC, a bot is enabled and the match continues. If survivors are having a good match and having fun, killers can DC and the survivors just have to eat that.
It ends up being a nasty cycle of getting stomped and having killers quit because they're doing poorly.
@@Darcalus lets be fr for a moment a bot is better then nothing but it is still a pretty much guaranteed victory for the killer. That defense is cope from people who leave games.
we need to go back to the good old days, no dc penalty and 4 insta DCs when u hear a nurse blink, it was peak dbd
Hi Scott, I’ve been a fan for a while.
Wanted to give my input, but I believe that removing the DC penalty in the short term will be bad, but in the long term would be a very good thing!
I’ll give a example, we have all gone against that midwich/4 slowdown/ nurse player. Who wants to slug and bleed you out for 4 minutes to get their rocks off.
There isnt any solo que survivor player who wants to stay in that game. If you allow those players to leave, the nurse player can play against bots since they are already playing easy mode.
On the flip, no killer player wants to go against the “comp” swf with the perfect meta, medkits, map offerings, exc. so if they could leave (assuming killer bots will be in the game) the “comp” swf will get their bully killer game.
I believe overall the removal of the DC penalty will incentivize good behaviors, while at the beginning you’d get a DC every game for like a week. Until both sweaty killers and survivors realize that all they are doing is playing against bots and let go of the gas for once.
Maybe I am wrong, but I think it would do the game good if you just remove the DC penalty, thank you for reading! Cheers!
I kinda want so bad to believe it will come out like this but it just wont , people will get annoyed by the slightest thing in the game and just ESC + leave match , just imagine how many times a survivor in your lobby has left against chill m1 killers because the game or chase didnt go their way or they just got outplayed , think about all the times a killer has left against a full solo team , they will encounter 1 decent player that last more than 1 min and they ll just say fuck it go next
I trult believe the best way to fix this problem is to either add a rank mode and add casual lobbys 5 dcs or something a day or make the game ranked across the board so people have actual self centered and "ego" reasons to stay on the match
unironically, just stop informing the other side of when a bot has taken the place of a player and remove dc penalties for both sides.
The issue with this line of thinking is that dbd is not a coop vs ai game in anyway the human element/player expression is what makes it dynamic and fun nobody wants to play against or with bots what you think is incentivizing good behaviors is actually the antithesis of the game.
I'm starting to enjoy difficult games.
I trust my team mates. It often ruins the match bc hey HATCH exists. 🤢
Pretty sure if they had basekit OTR and DH and DS and Kindred and Shoulder The Burden, people would still complain about tunneling. This isn't a game issue, this is just a horrible mentality problem that people in DBD encouraged for so long that it's normal. I also feel like the worst part about Survivor is other Survivor players. The killers rarely makes me as upset as other people on my team ending it all after one minor inconvenience.
32:26
Pretty sure comments like this are about Zu and they're confusing you two. Even a few months ago, most of Zu's videos have them DCing once a video.
This
if they were to somehow make tunneling less effective/prevalent, you may still have people complaining about it. but instead of it being a massive amount of players rightfully complaining about bad game design, it becomes a small amount of players whining over their own extreme skill issue. it wont eradicate the problem outright of course, but to act like it wouldnt be a massive step in the right direction is hilariously incorrect
Players shouldn't have to bring specific Perks, Items or Add-Ons just to have fun. I should be able to have an enjoyable match without being forced to bring something simply because of unhealthy game design.
I want to run interesting and unique builds without having to worry about having to go against the best builds when I'm running a sub-optimal option. It's not about optimal or sub-optimal, it's about having fun.
If I'm not having fun, I'm leaving.
12:42 BRO THAT GOT ME SO HARD I JUST STARTED LAUGHING LMAOOOO BRO HATES OTZDARVA SO MUCH
Killer has gotten easier with almost every update beginning with 6.1 and it’s not for balance it’s to keep matchmaking snappy for survivors
A lot of killer mains are antisocial wannabe bullies chasing a power fantasy and they won’t play the game if it’s too fair.
Survivors need stronger basekit tools to punish unsportsmanlike behavior like tunneling camping and slugging but BHVR needs to be careful to make sure killers still feel strong to keep the weirdos playing
Yeah no
You are projecting so hard and I think its time to pick up a different game..
Funny you say this because I’m noticing survivors have been doing a lot crying and quitting ever since they can no longer bully killers.
if the killer plays nice, no one will give up, once they buffed ds back to 5 seconds, tunneling was so unnoticable, but now killers tunnel a lot
When will people realize THEYRE BORED. “Man I hate x y z, how is it in the game” “I hate how killers/survivors do x y z” THATS the game; why are you surprised that it happens? The game plays how it plays out, if someone is getting annoyed because the killer/survivors are able to do certain things then you dont hate the person doing said thing, you hate the GAME.
I don't hate the game, I hate how the devs Designed the game. Because it encourages everyone to play like a prick.
Just because it can't be fixed doesn't mean it can't be complained about.
I think they do realize it’s just that many people are addicted to dbd. Many people in this community only play dbd so they have sunk a shit ton of time and money into it.
@@Jay-n8e4w I'm not. I take month long breaks to play MK1 and Other games. Others...Well I'm certain probzz is.
Even as a killer, I HATE when people go next. Same with match after match of friendlies. I hop on the game because I like playing it, if I wanted to not play it I wouldn't launch it.
What I've learned from these videos is that Killers can act like actual sweat babies, but Survivors have to just deal with it and keep things going, even in entirely unwinnable situations.
I also learned from y'all to "play something else", so I am. Others probably are, too. I don't want the game to die; I think we just need something that's a bit more relaxed/less competitive that doesn't depend on having to switch modes or games altogether to "have fun". (When you bought DBD as a game to, y'know, "have fun", as most other normal people do when they buy games. 😂)
Telling someone to play something else literally does nothing to fix the issues that pushed them away. Negligence, arrogance, and stubborness can kill anything, over time.
Actually it does it forces behavior to actually improve their game and direct resources to making the game actually fun and enjoyable and not having 80% of their team working on new Sable skins. Problem is too many people in the community have spent too much on these Sable skins and are afraid of quitting.
If they did a ranked mode with bans, you'd have to make your builds after the queue and bans. The time between games would probably be greatly increased. Especially for that mode if people don't take to it as much as the regular game
5:20 Scott makes a Morrowind reference, put a smile on my face
I see the Go Next problem in sooo many of my games, and while I have 2,000+ hours in DBD, I would not consider myself great at the game or "High MMR". Sure, the people I'm matched with (solo q surv) are definitely not new by any means, but I play DBD casually to have fun and hopefully run a couple fun chases before I have to get off. Nothing makes me log off the game faster than playing two 3 v 1 games in a row.
Scott I only have one complaint. Can you please stop saying "No one" has/will/ever/etc because I can almost guarantee you that I can go find an example of someone for every single time you said it this video, but I obviously respect my time more than that. There will ALWAYS be an exception to your definitive statements and when you're making arguments about something you should generally avoid them as it undermines you a bit.
Use your own common sense and stop word policing.
I used to play dbd back then and I can ensure you that there where JUST as many dcs and go next mentality players. Why do I know this? I mained spirit and later oni, every time I started slugging just 1 survivor on half of my matches ppl immediatly refused to play and just dcd or killed themselves. It happened to often that I started to play less my main killers just because of this very reason. I still have tons of salty comments on my steam profile from ppl beeing upset that I play these killers xD. I can understand why this is a problem and I agree that it needs to be fixed, but claiming that "back then there wasnt this" is just simply not true, we used to have this also a lot but I assume over the years ppl are just done with this.
In addition to the general lack of empathy, there is a breach of social contract by intentionally playing the game (or quitting it) in a way that goes against the normal rules of play. The counter to the "I bought it. I can play it how I want," argument is that you bought a (mostly) ONLINE MULTIPLAYER game. So, yes, you did buy DBD and you CAN technically play it how you want to. However, when you purchase an MMO game you are agreeing to the implied Social Contract that you will play the game, not just within the official rules, but within the realm of "normal play." Because guess what? Other people ALSO already purchased DBD under the expectation that (at least most) games would be played in the spirit of the developers' intended vision. By buying a multiplayer online game, and then saying "fuck it I'm going to play it like an offline single player game where only my fun matters," you are breaking the implied Social Contract of the game. And sure---technically you CAN do that and it's not illegal. But implied Social Contracts are everywhere in society and you abide by them literally all the time even if you aren't aware of it. And, not to be dramatic, but society is built on this concept. So, why don't we just maintain that mentality when we sit in our gamer chairs? :) (Also, look at my Democratic Theory degree being useful in fucking DBD discussion).
Lol
😂😂😂😂
Me and my friend played DBD a lot, I had 800ish hours and she had about 1300, maybe more. We genuinely loved the game but the community ruined it for us. So many more people were giving up since we had last played, we were legitimately shocked at how often it happened. These people dont seem to realize they are gatekeeping their own game and ruining it for everyone else. For killer, we were getting tunneled significantly more than we had before. We brought anti tunnel shit, but it didn’t even matter because killers had gotten better playing it around it and rhey had been nerfed so much that it was difficult for me to get use out of it. I would say I was an above average looper, not insanely good or anything but could hold my own against half decent killers (although lose most of the time). Even so they barely did anything for me. I should mention, this was after coming back from like a year+ break. Thats why I had difficulty adjusting to the game and the way people played made it even harder. I had so many “good” perks to catch up on. People dont realize how awful the grind to get anti tunnel or camping perks is. I just gave up even tho I still had some love for the game. Its not just bad for new players, their systems are terrible for returning players too
I really don’t see any hope for this game if the community continues as it is. I dont envy the devs for having to deal with these fucking grown babies. They make some questionable decisions, everytime the game seems to open up for new players rhey make something else significantly more difficult and frustrating.
Maybe this is a bit of extreme measure but instead of trying to make these obviously miserable players happy, why not just double down on punishing them and phase them out completely. Get rid of self unhooking (at least at the beginning of matches its still fun to do later on or maybe put it behind a perk like slippery hook or some shit) and be more strict with gameplay sabotaging and DCing.