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DOCTOR WHO HAS A HUGE PROBLEM... AND IT ISN'T GOING AWAY ANY TIME SOON [+RTD DISCUSSES SHOWS FUTURE]
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 17 ส.ค. 2024
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Hello TH-cam and People Of the interwebs, after the empire of death we are still left with many questions, lets discuss!
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RTD needs to realise that being show runner doesn’t mean that the show is his. If he forgets that the audience are also invested in it, then they will go.
Problem is that he believes it is his to ruin. All the crap is deliberate, it didn't get written like that by itself. His bitterness against the average fans is tangible and as for the rubber doggie wrapped around the tardis. He's having a laf... Both him and can't-act-Ncuti need to get the heck away from this show and let it heal.
yes! Parts of the season were good but I found that All in all its showing us that RTD ran out of ideas, is a bit of a Wally actually and ATEOTD he doesn't give a Fandango.
Totally agree with you. RTDs current lazy writing is very frustrating. The audience deserves better and it almost comes across disrespectful.
Disagree. series was great. And it just won some awards
There is that many Season 1, the 1 now makes it the third one. Go back to what Dr Who should be, RTD your ruining it
@@1964mtm *you're
"almost"?
@@purefoldnz3070what awards?
Mrs Flood *is* RTD. She is his avatar, and Russell uses her to explore 'what would happen if I happened to stumble upon the Doctor and their companion? ' The direct-to-camera dialog is literally Russell winking at us.
Direct to camera monologues could also a nod to Disney as in many old Disney films a character would talk directly to the audience - Mary Poppins being one of the main ones to do those on multiple occasions during the film 😂
@@craigbishop a bit like how 'the Editor' is sometimes a character in comic strip.
His mouth-piece.
Mrs Flood is Angie from Eastenders.Rubys Dad turns out to be a tyre fitter from Rotheram.
Saying she was in the cloak "cause it was needed for the story" makes no sense whatsoever within the world building of the show rn- so Russell will do whatever he wants to troll fans? That's what that comment translated to rn for me. He's one of my heroes but I dunno that almost seems like he just don't care. Maybe he's playing a long game, and I hope I'm proven wrong but still that comment really made me worried. Also, I love some ambiguity in storytelling but it's knowing when and where to do it - I think it kind of works in 73 Yards but I understand why people hate it. Listen is an example of it working perfectly.
Also also, love your comparison between Rey's build up and Ruby's and why Rey's works and Ruby's doesn't.
Yeah, it almost feels like he's trying to kill the show he started and turn it into the same thing you find everywhere else, just so he can get Internet points? Get rid of any fans that have critical thinking maybe? It's almost like someone's replaced him and I can't get my head around it.
@@TheCagedCorvidSame here.
I bet it's the toymaker puppeteering RTD and making him say: "I've been so clever" 😂😂😂😂
@@AStupidID as pointless as the Masters disguise in Time flight.
@@AStupidID The cloak sets a scene. It is a mystery who is Ruby’s biological mother,? It’s cold, and the dead of night. The cloak is the shroud of mystery!
@@Jeannette_741 It's cold, the dead of night...and in late 90's/early 00's Britain. Where wearing a hooded cape would have made you very noticeable indeed. Not like it was the fashion of the time.
Russell has lost his touch compared to RTD 1
We need you in the production team. We should start a campaign to get Bad Wolf Productions to give you an adviser's job on the show. If you were there during filming of season one, I think the whole season would feel different and better.
Ngl I would 100,000% back him,he sounds like a really chilled lad,hopefully he’s local to Brighton
That's hindsight talking because if this was the cause then every tv show or movie would be a masterpiece. When you are creating something you are too close to it to see the errors. Only after you can see when you read the reviews of viewers. Then it's up to them to work on improving
@maverickr9465 I don't think Russell wants to improve it, and I don't think these are errors. It seems like he's literally just phoning it all in, telling everyone that's what he's doing, and going, well, if you don't like it, I don't really care as long as I get money and engagement. All these hand wavey explanations in interviews feel like a bit of a middle finger, almost like he can't be bothered... I just don't understand
Jesus Christ - did you perform a colonoscopy whilst lodged up his ass?
This has always been RTDs modus operandi. It infuriated me from series 2 onwards, and continues to infuriate me to this day
If RTD doesn’t explain who or what mrs flood is, that will really damage the next series bc if too many questions go unanswered, it will just push fans away.
AND I think thats actually what he wants! In one interview RTD said with regards this new season and new Doctor they're aiming purely to attract NEW FANS and the whole mainstream, younger generation.
Deep down he doesn't want all the older fans now, he's unashamedly coming out purely as himself if that makes sense; meaning his being a "Gay Man" and part of the whole rainbow community.
I think RTD is kinda doing what Kathleen Kennedy has been trying so very hard to do for some years now; - REPLACE THE CORE FANS with a whole new audience.
Hollywood have code words for when they are doing this, it's goes like this (and you may have heard it) - "We are updating this classic thing for the Modern Audience."
RTD has also partnered with Disney who now own pretty much the Dr Who franchise and Disney have been woke for a while now, so it's obvious RTD is exactly who they want, they aim to get rid of the core fans, and RTD actually thinks, he believes HIS "Doctor Who" with all it's weirdness and his Queer eccentricities now will appeal to a whole NEW, much younger generation of let's just say SJWs, woke people and especially just "young people" if the whole skittles, taste the rainbow community.
This is what he wants and I'm sorry if you're a huge, passionate Dr Who fan who has followed it all your life, this is a harsh truth you need to accept, because IF RTD truly cared about Dr Who lore, and cleverly, properly explaining specific things in the plots of these episodes; he would be doing that, but now he feels he doesn't have to because in his own delusional mind, he us serious about only appealing to younger, new audiences who were never interested in Doctor who before.
Sadly the woke hivemind virus has got to him, it probably did a while ago.
In truth I think you're just going to have to eventually walk away from this series friend. Because RTD will continue this direction for the series into a 2nd, 3rd future seasons. It's no good hoping they will change because you'll only end up hate watching the show.
What you said in last part of your comment is true, RTD's spiteful attitude in how he's treating this franchise now will only drive away long-time, loyal Fans who have stuck with the franchise through thick and thin.
Him not explaining specific details, elements and things that really should be explained will only annoy the long time fans, it will also cause so much inconsistency and just simply drive away those fans.
In this happening this whole NEW YOUNG GEN AUDIENCE that RTD believes he will gain, won't actually flock to this show, because the young generation don't work like that. They're very lax today and just flit fron one latest thing to another. So his new audience he keeps chasing just won't come to fruition and it will only result in RTD ultimately being responsible for killing Doctor who and it ending up getting taken off air.
I know this because while I'm not actually a Dr Who Fan, ai am a massive, passionate *Star Wars* fan who has saw Kathleen Kennedy damage and greatly hurt the franchise I love over these recent years, and now today starwars is a shell of its former self, and hardly any younger gen fans are even into it. With each new show that's came on D+ the viewing ratings have gotten lower, they have NOT increased, and the Acolyte is the latest victim of this, its dismal, and us older and core fans are just walking away from the franchise; we've descended in sheer APATHY now for "Disney Starwars".
It's sad it has gotten like this friend and I truly feel for you if you're a huge, passionate Dr Who fan, but we have to just ride this storm right now, let these things go badly under, by the horrible people in charge of them right now. Let it all get so bad to such a point those (woke) people have their time, then the studios ultimately realise
@RaikenXion
Sure blame his laziness and disrespect on a "woke conspiracy" 🙄
@@RaikenXion if you push long time fans away, inevitably, no matter how many new fans the show brings in, the show will die. Why? Bc it’s long time fans that keep shows/ franchises going. RTD will regret his pandering and lazy writing when the show gets cancelled which inevitably, sooner or later, will happen. Just like star wars will stop production sooner or later and the series will rot. Nothing lasts forever.
@@nealjroberts4050 it’s pretty obvious to anyone with half a brain that there is a very clear woke agenda here. It doesn’t help that he fails to understand the audience he falsely thinks he’s bringing in.
@@nealjroberts4050 Well I'm not blaming it on a "woke conspiracy" It is that very ideology which originated from two PC subjects that were taught at Universities and Colleges around 2011 - Gender Studies and Critical Race Theory, that are infected people's minds, and created this mentality, the "woke hivemind".
This is what RTD is infected by in his own mind. The guy making this video even points out that RTD years ago just used to have such better writing. So what changed??
I argue wokeness got to him, also this change in society, where the rainbow community in particular have been put on such a pedastal now, nothing can be said to them, anykind of pushback against their views and beliefs is immediately branded as "phobic" and the individual is vilified.
No room is allowed for Debate. this is how society has ended up. It's not a woke conspiracy, it's basically Govt pandering to the community, and shutting down any one of us that does not share the same views, or hold different opinions.
Also RTD now working alongside Disney who themselves have become increasingly more woke in recent years, now that they own the Doctor Who franchise, have also encouraged RTD to be more campy, fantasy and silly in his overall writing of Doctor, and so he himself has now become less focused on the actual Lore and consistency to any of that, and take "Doctor Who" in anykind of specific direction, HE so chooses.
It is RTD's own focus on making Doctor Who become Exactly what HE wants it to be now, that has caused that very "laziness and disrespect" in his very writing.
This is the kind of thing that happens when you allow a certain community who are ONLY defined by the rainbow, and "sexuality" to be in full charge of beloved franchises. And when you don't have the actual "lorekeepers" and story-groups in place within a beloved franchise, to reign in those very types of people; and to remind them their are "rules" and LORE that they should abide by and respect in that very franchise.
Wokeness causes this because if you have seen the pattern now, what happens companies, Pander and completely give way to such rainbow people in Jobs and careers they get into. They get too scared to tell them anything, but simply allow them all these privileges; and so those people operate mostly outside of anykind of rules; they're just allowed to do whatever they want and that's when the company, product or Franchise starts to falter and eventually the *Quality* goes down.
NO "conspiracy" here. I'm just speaking a harsh *Truth*, this is what Wokeness creates.
I actually don't need answers for 73 Yards, but I would've appreciated them for the Devil's Chord. I think my brain is pretending the song never happened because if it focuses too much on it, I risk aneurysm.
I am still hoping RTD is being cheeky and that we will get a lot of the things that need answers, like Mavity, answered, that maybe he's stretched some things out over 2 seasons because the episode count is so tragically low.
The song happened to put a highlight on Susan Twist.
The cloak thing is extra silly... You could still have her in period appropriate clothing and have the same effect. An oversized hoodie would have been fine.
The missing moment of "times gonna go crazy music is flooding back" would have totally made that episode, like from "what the hell", to "let's go musical, woo hoo".
I think the biggest issue is 8 episodes per season. It's not enough.
bbc does not have the money for rtd to do a 5 year 13 episode season and rtd said that before he handed the baton over to moffat he was burnt out.
@@markdaly1903 whaaat???? Disney is paying for a huge chunk of this, and they could just hire more writers, for god's sake.
Even 10 episodes at 50 mins instead of 45 would allow for much improvement
Sutekh was a "big dog" because that's what the God had in Egyptian Mythology that the character comes from. Egyptologists are actually divided/undecided what the actual animal was meant to be for Sutekh, but several of the likely animals were canine. Regardless, the show pulled off making Sutekh look like the animal in the hieroglyphs.
Was the "cultural appropriation" line therefore a dig at himself for continuing to represent Sutekh as an Egyptian god?
That's why Russel decided Sutekh should be a dog, but it is not an in universe explanation for why he is a dog. It was already explained in pyramids of Mars that Egyptian myths aren't real, but they are based on a real race of aliens that Sutekh belongs to. Nowhere in universe is it explained why Sutekh becomes a dog. We do get a small line in tales of the tardis about how he has "evolved," but 1. That doesn't really explain anything. And 2. Half the audience can't even watch tales of the tardis since its UK only
Let’s be honest, the ‘big dog’ jackal appearance of Sutekh was entirely done for the sight gag of The Doctor, with a whistle and a lead, taking the dog for a walk.
I don't dipute the big dog look, it was just the ending taking him for a walk on a lead. How did that lead even hold against the might of Sutek and why didn't he just stop them. The ending really didn't make any sense to me.
Except the screen image was too much like Anubis's Jackal than Sutekh's "hunting dog" .
The leash thing would work if in the void Sutekh slowly dissolved similar to his dust of death effect and that that undid his death making
The Fisher King was a tall guy in a mask. Felt pretty threatening at the time.
They’re trying to appeal to younger generations who have grown up with fancy cgi, that’s why and doing what every entertainment industry are doing, sacrificing quality writing for good graphics. They are putting the majority of the money into the graphics and very little of it into production and writing.
RTD doesn’t understand that it’s the cheesy graphics that made dr who so loveable.
I don’t mind Sutekh’s design in Empire of Death, because in the pyramids of mars after the mask breaks he has a dog/ jackal head. As too why his entire body is doglike now, it is a bit odd but, it’s a more imposing image than a humanoid just hugging the Tardis
Unless RTD re-edits the episodes, I believe Season 2 is all done and dusted.
It finished filming before season 1 even aired
@@SnowLily06which was a mistake when they've had no feedback or seen ratings
If Disney aren't happy they could request reshoots/changes
@@paultoseland9524- It's yanks and their evangelical thickness who are ruining the show and inserting dance scenes like a crap Broadway Musical...
The problem with contrived storylines is that it ultimately just becomes nonsense where nothing is believable. I found this to be a major problem with the anniversary Toymaster in particular. Why follow the plot, follow the details, follow the characters, when anything can be nonsense at any moment? Someone's in a complex trap? Who cares, someone will solve the complex trap by just pushing someone out of it if the plot needs it. How is a duplicate Doctor going to travel the universe? He just picks up a magic hammer and makes a new TARDIS as the plot needs it.
Yeah it's a problem when people confuse fantasy or fairytales with "anything can happen" stories.
Fantasy and fairytales have _rules_ and constraints that everyone must follow: "don't look back when leaving Hades", "3rd prince always wins", etc etc.
Considering it's been stated by RTD that the mystery surrounding Ruby's parents is still going to be important in season 2, perhaps her father is the one that's going to be the 'true' mystery, whether he be some sort of alien, supernatural entity, or even a god. Maybe Mrs. Flood also has something to do with that and, in the end, it'll all come together and we won't have to worry anymore about the lack of answers. In RTD Gen 1, things like Bad Wolf was used as Easter eggs that built up over time and gave plausible reasonings end the end of multiple seasons. In RTD Gen 2, we're getting plotpoint mysteries with lackluster answers at the end of a single season, that are also supposed to continue into the next season? I do like the new season, but I feel like RTD is over-excited over his freedom due to the salt. Someone get this man some pepper!
This is a reasonable thing to happen, but I am concerned that it is dangerously similar to making Rey a Palpatine.
@@mikecase2372 I don't think this will happen considering RTD mentioned that he hated how they retconned Rey into being a Palpatine, and preferred it when her being ordinary is what made her extraordinary
No her father
Is just as ordinary
They said he didn't know he had a child
RTD is not what he used to be. He's almost in Chibnall territory. RTD is doing more fantasy and less Sci-Fi. And I want less fantasy (a LOT less) and more Sci-Fi.
He's as bad as Chibnall.
That is what is missing in this new season OVERSIGHT of scripts. Bad Wolf has total unimpeded control of content, so unless RTD can start weaving things to a satisfying explanation and season conclusions, I think RTD becomes a has-been and Doctor Who will suffer until it's eventual second cancellation.
Well apparently
There will be a
Third season
My problem with that musical number (apart from the fact that it was musically lacklustre) is that when they finished singing and dancing ... nobody turned to the person beside them and said ... "what the heck just happened ?"
And was it just the building that was affected? or a part of London? Or was it worldwide?
To be fair the musical energy hadn't ended yet at that point, as seen when the Doctor and Ruby play piano on the road. If they had included the cut line about how the world was about to be filled with music it would've explained everything. I do agree that a line of them questioning what they were just doing would've made the episode way better though.
I share your concerns. I feel the supernatural element has mostly been poorly handled and it's disheartening to know it'll continue in season 2, along with Ruby's story, which was also poorly handled. Watching this season has been a bit like watching England in the Euro's; a bit of a mess with some great moments. Hopefully sunday will go well and season 2 will too.
The reason Sutekh had a "dog's head" is explained but not in the television series. After he was trapped in the time corridor he escaped and took over the body of Anubis (the one who imprisoned him). In Egyptian mythology Anubis is the Jackal headed god of death so it makes sense RTD would portray Sutekh as dog-faced. My biggest gripe with the season finale is that the death of death is not life but immortality. This is something I feel RTD needs to address in a future episode.
That should have been explained on tv bc now, even if RTD has explained outside the show, that still makes it a massive plot hole.
Where was this explained?
Sorry but Moffat was better showrunner
So far, I have to agree.
Ask Orson Pink, he knows.
I honestly think Russ and Steve have a running bet on how many plot holes they can leave.
I often break the forth wall myself. Talking to myself, adressing an audience that isn't there. I thoight it was normal behaviour. Doesn't everyone do it?
You have the best conversations the for sure.
The main reason why I didn’t like the majority of season 1 is bc, besides half the season having bad writing, it had way too many plot holes and it left too many questions unanswered. Overall it was very clear that this season was rushed out the door and not much thinking went into it.
"We should never know what the woman was saying to make Ruby's family run away..."
Woah, woah, woah... hold up right there...
We ABSOLUTELY need to know the reason. What RTD did was character assassination of Carla and Kate. Not only do we need a reason, but it better be a damn good reason why Carla would flat-out just abandon her daughter for the rest of her life. That happened. It may have happened in an alternate timeline/universe/whatever, but IT HAPPENED, and if I don't get an explanation, then Carla is a horrible mother in ANY timeline. Full stop.
I feel like overall I'm with you on this, we may not need to know what was said but if characters do something horrible with NO explanation this again is bad writing. So we need something, but the something may be a tie in with other alternate timeline stuff being more fully answered, why does the Doctor say time/ their memory of the Ruby moment keeps changing, why did Ruby's adoptive mum flip from caring to just does it for the money, I feel there are more things that WILL be answered, unless they drop the storylines and arc, if not then it just makes having those Kate/Carla turning on Ruby moments and other things similar WHY WHAT THIS MAKES NO SENSE.
Yes, you don't need an encyclopedic explanation of every thing in a story, but leaving out the bigger ones like this is a major fail, if it makes no sense and you're not going to explain it don't even put it in.
My hope is the story arc overall isn't yet done and is a slow burn like Bad Wolf, Clara etc, but as much as I disagree with the really harsh critics (especially the anti woke nutters) there has been some lazy/ bad writing, like the Doctor's 'last of the timelords' thing, makes no sense them having that thinking having been wrong in the past on it, why would you think the same thing a subsequent time, at least have it be 'I think I'm the last of the timelords, again, currently' maybe even as a little bit of a confused slight leaning towards humour within the seriousness of the prospect so they acknowledge it might not be so or can change BECAUSE THEY HAVE PRIOR EXPERIENCE BEING WRONG ABOUT THIS. Why therefore reuse that line of thought carbon copy?
Cutie saying there’s a twist in the end-was just enough. The connected tissue would have killed the scene. I think Flood is Ruby sent back by the Angels.
What makes you believe
The Angels will appear in the series
@@user-gj9uq3kb7y The angels serve gods, and they always appear!
@@Jeannette_741 not in the series
they dont
@@user-gj9uq3kb7y you never know
@@user-gj9uq3kb7y and unless you are RTD, we really are only speculating just like the rest of us
The amount of times Suranne Jones winks down the camera and talks to the audience in Gentleman Jack and no one questions that. That’s a historical drama too!
"a couple of years ago." Dude rogue one was 9 years ago. Bruh, I feel so old 😂
I still want to know why the Tardis seems unable to materialise now and skids everywhere- just why?
I do think Russel has lost the plot a little unfortunately. I want Moff back. I'll keep watching, as I've been a fan since I was 4 in 1977, but I don't get excited about it anymore😢.
This was so refreshing. It felt like you were reading right from comments I have left on your videos from this season
Sadly the only writer that can do Doctor Who justice is Steven Moffat. His 1 episode in this series just shows how great his writing is.
I loved Rogue, which was written by Kate Herron of Season 1 Loki, and her writing partner. That was a brilliant episode. Bringing in new writers can work.
@@marshsundeen yeah, new writers....not older ones....who claim to be fans of the snow- whilst screwing it up constantly.
RTD did say that the mystery or at least the drama around Ruby's family isn't done. We haven't met her Dad and I think it will turn out that Roger AP William is her half brother.
Devil's Chord was meant to be after 73 Yards so the Maestro's comments may have been referring to Ruby's splintered time line. But it was moved earlier to run before Eurovision so that connection was lost
Imagine cutting "we're still in a state of play" from the Giggle and just pulling out the circus mallet like it's always been an option.
Honestly, I don’t think we need answers for 73 Yards because the story is from Ruby’s POV. The entire story is something Ruby doesn’t understand and barely even remembers, so I think giving us, the audience, a clear explanation would take away from the episode because we’d be one up on Ruby the entire time. It was a story where the audience isn’t supposed to know more then Ruby, and unlike Turn Left, Ruby can’t explain what happened to the Doctor and allow him to info dump an explanation.
I think that so many of these things we “need to know” come from us wanting to analyze everything. I can’t help but wonder if new viewers or folks who weren’t trying to pick apart the mystery even care about things like the whistle or Ruby’s mothers cloak? Because I think a lot of these things are things that will go right by most viewers.
I can't agree. I think this is objectively bad writing and find it worrying that people are willing to accept this level of laziness. I feel your logic here is dubious at best. We are meant to be one up on Ruby as the audience, and I cannot agree that our remaining in ignorance alongside her is acceptable - if this becomes a standard, then there is no standard at all. This is the antithesis of Chekhov's rifle, there is active setup with no resolution, which just becomes an excuse to avoid any need for internal logic. Your final assertion that you believe these things will go past most viewers is not good enough, I am afraid - it implies pursuing a lowest common denominator that says why bother making sense, because some audience members don't pay attention.
@@richardbradbury3658
I think you either don’t understand what objective means, or you don’t care. Whether you feel an episode is written poorly is 100% subjective. It can’t be objective unless it’s literally an unintelligible mess.
You’re 100% allowed to disagree, that’s fine, but no opinion is objective.
I think you’re on the right lines, I suspect 73 yards was RTD’s attempt at writing PG rated cosmic horror. If you’re not familiar, it’s a genre where only fleeting glimpses at the incomprehensible cosmic truth behind our fragile existence is the entire point. Whether or not he succeeds is a personal view. I recommend looking for the great short story, “Settler’s Wall”, or listen to Horrorbabble’s usual high quality audio version, for how tentacle-free cosmic horror can be done.
My only quibble with 73 yards was the rushed resolution. They could have made the transfer of Ruby to the old woman more explicit, more this is the circle completing and then fixing itself.
By that logic, I could write the most incoherent, nonsensical story ever contrived, where everything is random, cause and effect don't matter, and characters just perform arbitrary functions to move the plot along. And when anyone points out that nothing in the narrative makes any sense, I'll just tell them, "You don't need answers, dear reader, because it's a ¡MyStErY! and you shouldn't be picking everything apart and wanting to 'analyze' everything!"
Try this idea.
Perception filters work for a 66.7m (actually if you round down instead of round up it is closer to 66.6m) which means that both Ruby and the old woman can both see and be aware of each other even if either of the is wearing one. However, when anyone is "Close" in any sense of the word, to Ruby if she is subject to a perception filter, that person CANNOT fully perceive her, only be superficially aware of her. When they are with the old woman however and look back, they can see Ruby as she truly is, and what she truly is they find terrifying. All the old woman has time to do and say is "Look at her" and doing that utterly traumatizes the viewer.
"Ask her" is all they will say
All Ruby sees when viewing the old woman outside the perception filter is, a harmless old woman.
It is Ruby who frightens Gwilliam, her mother, Kate's soldiers, NOT the old woman.
Ruby uses this power, with knowing what it is to save the world from Gwilliam, but it does not go away, because she is who she is and what she is.
The old woman stays with Ruby for her entire life, just to stop her from being alone because she is the one person NOT frightened by Ruby's true self, even when seen outside of her perception filter.
No one, not even the gods can see Ruby for who she is, even technology is shrouded for knowing her, even magic, unless they are more than 66.6 metres away, because she must be protected from discovery and this very attribute is what saves the universe from Sutekh for the sake his obsessive curiosity about her.
This of course following the Egyptian theme of the Sutekh story tells us who Ruby is, she is the Veiled goddess whose face must never be seen, the only Osirian the god of death and destruction fears, she who to look upon her face brings madness, the god with rubies for eyes, the great Mother ISIS.
All the stuff with Ruby's "real" mother is a lie, made up by the doctor to stop her from seeking (Rule number one sweetie, the doctor lies!" when Sutekh let go of the rope if is because he saw Ruby for who she really is, which is why she could call him the "great big god of nothing" and literally put him on a leash.
Among other things, Isis is the god of time, an attribute she passes on to her son Thoth.
Ruby is the older sister of Set aka Sutekh, the second born of Nut and Geb the sky and the earth and the Mother of Horus, the god who sealed Sutekh in the Pyramid of Mars all those eons ago.
Yeah, still think the ruby's ordinary thing might itself be a misdirect, note the big gemstone in Sutekh's head, a ruby, and red has been very present this arc. Think also eye of horus both in Who and world lore.
I'm thinking though maybe Ruby is ordinary because of being good, or not knowing of her 'extraordinary', so she lives that way, had another theory that if truly ordinary maybe those around her are not such as a parent/ relative/ carer/ other relevant person. Bear in mind gods tend to manifest through mortals so another maybe is that Ruby could be ordinary but in the sway of something very much not so. Ruby might therefore be a vessel for that something and THAT is what was seen when others ran from her. As I've also said I don't think The Toymaker's 'I saw it hiding and I ran' and 'the one who waits' was about the Sutekh entity, I think this was an actual GOOD misdirect writing-wise. They're in the same pantheon suggesting they are somehow working together so why would The Toymaker run from Sutekh or Sutekh be hiding from him?. Maestro's something unnatural in Ruby. Would also fit the fact the snow summoning ability is a gift from 'the oldest one', so question as an aside does Mrs Flood have the gift too? But also the assumption has been the one who waits/ the oldest one is Sutekh but this may not be the case (as that also means Sutekh gave Ruby the gift and Carol of the Bells is linked to it as well- the music of the time of Ruby's birth- it has the power of the oldest one and Maestro finds it discordant- 'This creature is VERY wrong' - importantly this is to Maestro thus their perspective- and it snows inside in that moment- Note Maestro says 'power LIKE him, the oldest one' so not specifically him but LIKE him, 'she has music hidden in her soul...HE can't have been there' (Ruby's birth night) again suggesting it opposing the pantheon's powers rather than boosting them, hence again maybe not Sutekh linked after all?), could it actually be the whatever using Ruby as a vessel if some entity is doing so? Could Mrs Flood from her more ominous vibes be another with the same gift who is maybe a rival to Ruby (or from her two sides possibly torn between cruelty and kindness or having that yin-yang duality some gods sometimes have re the maybe unavoidable cruelty of things such as cycles of life/death and the universe's 'workings'?)
Another theory of mine is the time window is part of how Sutekh tricked his way back into being so maybe he did give Ruby the gift but unintentionally by changing events around the time of her being left outside the church, I theorize that Sutekh was only there and around the TARDIS from that moment but when it was changed in the time window in a bootstrap paradox kinda way. So he was there in the past ONLY AFTER that past was changed in the future, because of the time window, not sure if I'm right but I like it as part of how he returned so.... Or maybe Isis followed him and that is how Ruby got the 'gift'.
I've definitely been thinking other gods/godlikes maybe even rivals to Pantheon ones could feature in future (there are plenty of possibilities as well as Isis and Who has used others in the past), remember they can be rivals but still 'bad' or ambiguous in human morality terms.
Isis would fit on many levels as a link to Ruby as Isis has waited for Sutekh's awakening in Who lore (hmm, the one who waits?) - I think to trap Sutekh so opposed to him if I've interpreted that wiki correctly. So would fit Ruby playing a role in defeating Sutekh this time round and belittling him in the process per 'Empire of Death'. There's also been a character with part of Isis in them from birth (Alyx Courtland) so this could apply to Ruby too, plus Who seems to like adopted characters in it lore, so many :) Post-Alyx-Isis also used her powers to bring life back to earth with rain, overlaps? In real world mythology Isis was seen as 'the beautiful essence of all the gods' and with powers that could counter the actions of other gods playing a part in bringing Osiris back to life after Set (which is of course Sutekh Who-wise) has killed him which the Who lore has overlapped and made use of.
Interestingly Hecuba in Who is the queen (maybe god/godlike) of time and is one of my possible is that Mrs Flood or another upcoming as yet unseen entity theories as there have been pointers to Hecuba (which could be meaningless as per the false trails aspect of this topic :) ) Snow's relevance in who could link Mrs Flood and Ruby to this and also time and memory are we've been told linked and as I've said Mrs Flood could have a memory link in my thinking as she has echoed different characters from Who in words and appearance and so on. Snow was also used in the time (/memory) window and the fuzzy picture 'snow' of the time-changing video tape from that moment...
It's all over....RTD has lost the plot 😅 literally....
It's lazy writing or what we used to call bad storytelling.👍
It is a positive development that even people who enjoyed Season One are pointing out flaws. It was madness when everyone who disliked anything was automatically perforce called a bigot, a sad testimony to the lack of good faith.
That he mentions the cloak and then laughs it off in the commentary, that really made me angry, especially since I'm an eternal RTD apologist usually. When I watched the commentary and he said "Maybe she was shrouded by time" I literally went "THEN PUT THAT IN THE TEXT!" out loud because it made me so mad. I love season 1, I adore Devil's Chord and 73 Yards as they are, honestly do, but that downright trolling with Ruby's mum is something I find infuriating and he's so proud of it. Russell, that wasn't it.
This was somewhat of an ongoing issue through the series, there were many instances of things being disjointed and nonsequitur.
I love stories with clever explanations, the ship name in Girl In The Fireplace, the nanobotes in doctor Dances, the psychic pollen in Amy’s Choice, etc etc.
If at the end of every story we just get RTD dismissing us with magic did it, it becomes kind of pointless
Ruby's mom didn't need a medieval cloak to hide her face, a hoodie would have worked just fine, and kept the mystery. As for the "woke" controversy, I don't have a problem with the show being topical, but it needs to tone it down to a more subtle level. Whenever any of that smacks you in the face, it just takes you out of the story and just mildly annoys. I'm all for those elements being there, but they need to done better. We don't need to be hit over the head with it to understand it.
See. the best parts of this season have been fantastic. But....there's so much that just feels unfinished to me. I dont think it is good to start not explaining things for a show like this. Mostly because for decades there have been explanations. (Even when its obvious bullshit about reversing the pularity etc) its what viewers expect.
I dont think new fans would like the lack of explanation either. I think its easier to accept if youre already fully onboard and dedicated to the show.
I guess the new era of Doctor Who does feel very "pantomime". Which i atleast, am not fully against. But id still like just a tiny bit more thought in connecting things together.
Totally agree with all you say here and, in fact, I have had a letter published in this month's DWM raising several of these points. Sad to say, with all the rumours about the future of the show hanging in the balance, it would appear the writing (or lack of writing) of this past season hasn't exactly endeared itself to many.
I agree with most of your points, but I will add that there were far too many stories where the Doctor didn't save the day in it. It was either solved by someone else or the Doctor didn't seem to be the one with a plan. It was a criticism I had with much of Chibnall's work too. Its okay to occaisionally have the Doctor seem out of his comfort zone, but we need to see the Doctor be in his stride as well. I guess it wasn't helped by Ncuti being unavailable for early filming. 73 yards was potentially a very good episode though let down by a lack of explanation at the end.
I agree and understand, your points are exceptionally insightful, so much so that I 'like' your posts before I actually watch them :)
I'll never put a like on a video before I watch it, but I honestly can't remember watching any on this channel and not giving it a like.
I think the best example of a mystery done right is Blue Yonder. So imagine after spending a whole hour hinting at reveals they just say "The robot walking slowly was designed by slow Industries! So it just likes walking slow."
That’s this season for me. (73 Yards is different imo as I don't feel there was ever a hint that things were going to be revealed, but so many other stuff certainly felt like that intentionally)
Sooo trueee!! I want my Vwoorp Vwoorp moments of "Disappears there, Reappears here. You wouldn't understand."
Not the TARDIS flying around willy nilly...
If you can't tell, I did not watch this video, and just commented this. Cause I only read the title of the video~ XD
I agree with everyone you said, all I have to say is Joe for show runner. Thank you for being a voice for us all!
Doctor Who actually has a tiny problem, its audience. The show has so alienated most of its fanbase and it isn't attracting anyone else in great numbers. That tiny problem is the doom of any show, so this one is over.
They did bring back Omega without the mask, well without the same mask. It was different enough that he was no longer iconic.
It was a mistake back then too.
Appreciate how you succeed in addressing issues without going all troll 😊
I wonder if RTD has makes love like he writes Doctor Who? It's all teasing and build up so you think it'll be really exciting, but when it actually happens it's really disappointing and you wonder what all the fuss was about
Do you have thoughts about having sex with RTD often?
Gatwa might be able to answer that 😉😜
The idea of Turdy Davies ‘making love’ makes me feel sick. 🤢
Yes that song and dance routine really confused and wound me up. I just concluded it was the new investor injecting a bit of "Disney magic" into my favourite sci-fi.
The problem with this show now, is RTD. Simple.
The problem with 14 was Chibnall. The problem with much of 'New Who' has been the writers. They're are just NOT very good.
That has been the problem with Doctor Who from 1963 onwards, it’s not just New Who. Steven Moffat is the best writer the show’s had, but even he has his flaws; and he has limited capacity: he can’t be expected to write every story.
This is the reason I thought of when I was watching the episode. It really should not have been cut.
So we have Mres Flood breaking the fourth wall, and the Doctor and Maestro as well, not forgetting the first Doctor doing this as well for the Xmas episode. I think there's a whole episode just waiting to be written about this 😊
Mavity mavity mavity, stop making excuses, there’s no rationale for Russell T Davies Dr Who, its absolute twaddle. We need Doctor Who for grownups, played by David Bradley with stories written by screenwriter Ben Aaronovitch, directed by Andrew Morgan and someone like John Nathan-Turner to produce it, sadly, but John Turner is no longer with us.
RTD has a fantastic actor that's stepped into the role of The Doctor, the special effects are better than ever, along with some really good to excellent scripts......BUT, he has injected elements into the new series that were completely unnecessary, added little or nothing to the show, and alienated a very large number of fans. Add to that the unforgivably pathetic "reveal" of Ruby's mother, and comments in interviews suggesting he doesn't really care about maintaining continuity or canon, and we are left with one inescapable realization......RTD needs to go if he continues along this path. He is to be given a huge amount of credit with successfully bringing the series back in 2005, but now it's like he's gone a bit "funny" in the head. He needs to show more respect to the show, or his little butt needs to go, go, go.....
Ncunti Gaytwat is not a fantastic actor, he’s a 3 trick pony, flouncing, blubbering and twerking. He is not the Doctor.
I see Mrs. Flood breaking the fourth wall akin to Puck addressing the audience at the end of A Midsummer's Night's Dream
The whole "because it was just needed for the story" shows two things:
1) laziness. The DW worldbuilding is fairly tolerant of inuniverse/Watsonian explanations being a tad clunky
2) disrespect for the audience. It basically says you don't care enough to make it make even fuzzy sense.
"Because it was needed for the story" is like the biggest writing no-no since before time. Incredibly lazy writing and alienates the audience. I'm shocked the BBC are allowing this!
Fans: But why?
RTD: For fun, bro
Confusion isn’t mystery. If your audience is left confused they won’t care an event is mysterious they’ll feel let down. There’s a difference between not telling an audience information to allow it to speculate and being intentionally obtuse.
Sutek looks really cool in pyramid of mars
The whistle shares the same mystery than the fairground hammer that The Doctor used to double the TARDIS: how did he know that this hammer could be found at exactly that point under the flour, after the TARDIS had just redecorated itself? 🤔
RTDs eps were never the best last time around. I must have been the only fan who wasn’t delighted he was coming back.
Yeah if you're going to break logic then please explain it.
My issue with Russell, apart from not bringing back the spinoff characters, is that he makes massive hypocritical statements.
E.g. He said he changed the screwdriver design because he didn't want children to interpret it as a weapon. Only to then have a child prodigy character have a machine gun.
I'm pretty sure bringing back spin-off characters is part of Russell's plan. Promising new spin-offs, but not involving the same people who pioneered the original spin-offs would be a huge missed opportunity, and I think Russell knows this. And tbf, he's already brought Clyde Langer back in Tales of the TARDIS. And, in a recent video on TH-cam, he said he is going to make sure he works with Eve Myles again, because he thinks she's amazing (and he's not wrong!)
That child with a gun part was absolutely awful.
I love Dr Who and Russell is by far my favourite writer on and off the show and was so excited when he was announced as coming back and was excited to see Ncuti as the doctor but overall it just hasn’t been great and I believe it’s because of the writing we just did not get answers for most of the mysteries it is lazy and indicates that he isn’t answering because he doesn’t know how too.
I just want Russel write some brilliant stories and he needs to give us better villains as we just had none outside of Maestro and Suhtek just wasn’t executed well especially for a returning villain.
Also it was too similar to his show Years and Years especially Dot and Bubble with the technology stuff and the evil prime minister as seen in 73 yards. Both plots were done far better in Years and Years and it just felt like a poor imitation of that.
Finally it just feels like he is turning the show into Black Mirror.
I think Ncuti could be a brilliant doctor and Millie has been brilliant as Ruby Sunday
American here. I showed my husband Devil's Chord. He thought it wasa great episode but thought the song at the end was terrible. Music was supposed to be better then. That was more an issue, than no explanation. I realize it is expensive, but do not do a Beatles episode without even one tune.
Nothings canon or relevant after Capaldi, its just random & malevolent fanfic now.
Something I recently discovered is that the god Set (Sutekh) would sometime appear as a donkey-headed god in certain depictions. This took me back to the Wild Blue Yonder and the captain of the station at the edge of the universe being a horse-like-headed creature.
Was Sutekh manipulating his own emergence into reality?
As for the fourth wall-breaking motif, it is a very Shakespearean device and is often used in pantomime. It make also be a device in classical Greek plays, particularly in the form of the chorus.
Oh and from classic Who we know that the Doctor will explain later, admittedly often off screen when audience is watching to a character who is as bemused as we are.
The fourth wall breaks are still common, that's usually where a text crawl (like in the beginning of Star Wars movies) or a narrator come in. Rarely the narrator turns into an actual on-screen character. It happens, but very rarely. For example with the cowboy in "The Big Lebowski". He narrates certain scenes in the movie and just happens to be a random character who happened to cross paths with Lebowski. If this was just a gag or if this implies that he always was a character watching the happenings around Lebowski from afar is up for the viewer to decide. Or the narrator in Space Dandy, who only occasionally interacted (voice only) with the characters and who, in the last episode, was revealed as being that universes god. Or the opposite with a character turning into a fourth wall breaking narrating character with Rick from Rick & Morty, who occasionally addresses the audience watching (as well as some other characters of this show do).
The only example in Doctor Who I can remember were when Rose randomly narrated in the episode "Doomsday" how she "died" (or was declared dead due to her getting stuck in an alternate universe) or when the "Lord President" (who RTD off-screen confirmed to be Rassilon) narrated part of the story in "The End of Time".
Mrs. Flood isn't a character involved with the Doctor's people or his adventures, nor does she reveal any kind of relation to him, apart from apparently knowing what a "TARDIS" is, having knowledge about some larger scale events unfolding and hinting at being more than she is.
Rose's narration could be seen as she telling her story to somebody willing to listen to it.
Likewise, the narrative of the Lord President might be a summary of events he may have told to the council he presided over.
The multiple random events surrounding Mrs. Flood feel different though. They might require explanation. Or at least a good reason for why it happened. Especially since she is aware of things ordinary people (or "ordinary aliens") wouldn't be aware of.
I agree with you on most things the exception is 73 yards. I am fine with the whole fairy circle folk horror of it all being the reason we don't get clear answers. I wish that the CGI Sutekh wrapped around the TARDIS scattered into dust and then coalesced into a tall man in a mask. RTD may be being clever and the whole Ruby's mom issue is a misdirect and the explanation for everything is her father is a God.
I get the sense that RTD has forgotten what makes science fiction worth the audience's time and emotional investment. If the way you tell the story is promising a satisfying answer at the end, you have to know what that answer is, *and* actually provide it by the end. I like the contrast you draw with Rey: the whole "he will knock four times" arc is comparable, in that the Doctor took it as this grand, ominous prophecy, when it really wasn't.
Seems to me that they are copying plots from other shows. Ruby's mum from Star Wars and Rey's parents. The dust killing from Guardians of the Galaxy or was it Avengers. The Musical from Strange new Worlds.
It wasn’t just the Devil’s Chord… the musical number in the goblin episode was stupid too.
I can just JUST accept the goblins singing… but why were The Doctor and Ruby so great at improvising a song, to a tune they had never heard?
Honestly, I found the whole series unsatisfying except for the one with Maestro and the regency one. It was just all so flat and..... nothingy.....
A real shame.
And the reasoning behind so many of the unsatisfying bits is so shallow....
I'm really disappointed in Mr Davies, tbh
I imagine it playing out like that:
Bad Wolf: [film episodes of season 1 (14) with explanations]
RTD: Nah, that's boring cut it out and burn it! We're going experimental!
Bad Wolf: [film episodes of season 2 (15) without explanations]
Season 1: [comes out]
Fans: ???!
Bad Wolf: Emm...
RTD: Jusy smile and wave, boys! Smile and wave...
In 73 yard I think it’s was the Tardis protecting the Doctor and Eart thru Ruby. Just my theory.
Yes to the XENA clip from Simpsons 0:50 love it fandoms collides Dr Who, Simpsons and Xena ....yaaaa Lucy Lawless in Dr Who needs to happen ....in terms of RTD writing anything can happen now I feel I've seen all I adore about the show happen ....everything extra it really is extra
ooo amazing video, thank you!
In the finale when they went to Roger ApWilliams' time, Ruby is looking at the screen with the identity of her mother and says several times that she 'doesnt understand' the result. The doctor doesnt see that result as she smashes the screen and puts the 'leash' on the big bad. I think there is alot more we will learn about her identity in season 2. I still dont believe it was her mother in the cloak leaving her at the church...hoping I am right about this and it will play out in season 2 otherwise alot of stuff just makes no sense at all. Btw love your videos...
It is definitely her mother. She literally talks about the night she left Ruby on the church doorstep in the finale
To me it felt like she made this up just to make Sutekh curious and vulnerable. Sadly now it feels like it was made up to mislead us, the audience, as well.
Her mum being ordinary isn't the problem, it's the lack of an explanation for the cloak and her mum being unlocatable, and the "true nature" of Ruby being mysterious/ominous that's the problem. Especially it being handwaved as "only for the plot". Doylian explanations need Watsonian counterparts!
I didn’t enjoy this first season , found the story lines messy . The song and dance routines , Rubys parents , the god of death was basically put on a leash and taken for Walkies through the time vortex thus turning back time , wonder what this means for gallifrey ?
I think 73 Yards really can't be compared to Midnight.
Midnight's narrative is simple and straightforward:
An evil entity attempts to cause havoc by manipulating people, eventually getting beaten. It can do 2 things, A. possession B. mimic then overtaking.
Midnight also has a clear focus: to use the narrative as a backdrop, to explore a side of human nature.
Now back to 73 Yards.
Who or what is trying to attempt what was not conveyed. The narrative tool, or the ability/rules, was also not conveyed well. It seemed to be a super natural phenomenon at first, but then it also hinted that said phenomenon could just be Ruby, but she turns out to be a completely ordinary person, so how come all the super natural power?
The focus is also unclear. Is there supposed to be a narrative or message? or is it just trying to be atmospheric and nothing else.
bookmarking this Joe for your inevitable future as showrunner, the Chibnall effect haha. In all seriousness, keep it coming 😊.
don’t be confused, be the confused adipose.
Russel saying all this identities that not only doesn’t he not understand how to write Doctor Who anymore, he simply doesn’t understand sci-fi
Sci-fi and Fantasy is all about imagination and escapism and breaking the 4th wall cheapens that because it reminds us that what we are watching is an artifice. Meta commentary also needs a purpose to be effective, usually in the form of satirical or farcical comedy. In Doctor Who it feels unnecessary and frankly stupid and it makes Russel look like he has a disregard for the world of Doctor Who
Sutekh was, in fact, a dog-faced alien under that mask, and we do see him without it in the original story at the end.
So I think you meant "why is he a big CGI dog when he should have been human-shaped but with a dog / jackal head (since he's meant to be an evil Egyptian god)".
I think it makes sense that he wasn't wearing a mask- I can't think of a good reason why he would ever put it on again unless he was forced to.
I'm okay with the occasional 4th wall break but there were just far too many in this season.
I completely agree, this season was really good, but the sloppy writing was apparent in nearly every episode. It felt like they got halfway through the writing process, and then started hand waving, and going "Oh it's fine no one will notice."
Im not angry that the show has gone woke (so Im not a nutjob). Im angry because the show has become total shite! The stories are dreadful. The writing is dreadful. There are not enough payoffs to the story polts. Its almost as if RTD had a load of Sarah Jane Adventures stories that he could make because Liz Sladen passed away. Why else would he change Doctor Who from Sci-fi, which it had been for 60+ years, to fantasy (a LOT of SJA was fantasy based... DW NEVER was). So, sadly, I truly believe that RTD has become a lazy hack. Thats my humble opinion. And, SADLY there is nothing coming from RTD, Disney+ or the BBC to contradict this theory. What are your thoughts on this Mr The Confused Adipose? Also,. before the season started, RTD constantly said that Disney would have NO editorial control over the show, but this is clearly BS given Disney's other shows such as Star Wars: The Acolyte is going through EXACTLY the same rubbish (shite stories, terrible writing, dreadful acting (and Im sorry about this but I don't think NG's acting is of similar quality to previous actors that have player The doctor) as Doctor Who!!!
I disagree about needing to hear what Old Ruby said to Ruby's mom to make her not only run away but kick Ruby out with no explanation. That would ruin the mystery? You mean the mystery of why a mother would suddenly reject the daughter she loves, who has done nothing wrong, without even talking to her about it, and stand by that decision for the rest of her life? Yes, it would ruin the mystery, because THAT mystery needs to be ruined. It's a violation of the character of Carla Sunday, and character violations need a darned good explanation, because character is the foundation of the show. I don't need to know what she said to Kate Stewart or Roger ap Qwylliam to make them run away, but I'm offended by Carla Sunday's total rejection of Ruby. And this particular "mystery" absolutely reeks of "because it needed to happen to make the plot work," which is never a good enough reason in and of itself.
There's another mystery that RTD set up, throughout this season, and then just ditched with no explanation. I get it that Ruby's birth mother was just a young woman who wasn't equipped to raise her own baby, so she gave her up. That's a fine and reasonable solution to the mystery of Ruby's origin. But why could Ruby make it snow? A very big deal was made of the snow; it implied something special about Ruby's birth, or her biological parents, and suddenly that whole story line just disappears when Ruby meets her birth mom?
I'm not just a Whovian; I'm also a science fiction fan, and a fantasy fan, and a mystery fan. There are certain fundamental rules that all these genres follow:
• Once you've established the basic rules of a universe, you don't just change them whenever it suits you.
• You remain true to your characters; you never have them behave atypically without an explanation. It doesn't have to come right away, but it must come sooner or later.
• And when you set up a mystery you eventually resolve it; you don't just pretend it never happened.
These rules are part of the implicit contract between the story teller and the audience, and when the story teller violates that contract he shouldn't be surprised when his audience walks away and doesn't come back.
I agree, mostly. I think 73 yards is better for not being explained.
it was great to see the recent series win some awards
If Ruby's mom is perfectly ordinary, who is Ruby's dad? Maybe that explains the mystery stuff about Ruby. The mom stuff was a distraction.
Here's an idea I only thought up while watching your video here. What if Ruby's mother's identity is a ruse? What if she actually isnt Ruby's mum? What if its a trick for someone to infiltrate Ruby's life? Could Mrs Flood actually be her mother? And what if she is a god and just went along with Sutekh's actions pretending to be dusted? It's out there I know but it would explain a lot. Just a thought.
Russell's writing seems contradictory and unsatisfactory. If he dislikes the overused "Chosen One" trope for a companion, then why create a character shrouded in mystery?
If the goal was to portray Ruby's mom as an ordinary person, it would have been more effective to include subtle hints throughout the season. This way, viewers could rewatch the episodes and appreciate the clever misdirection. Imagine a storyline where the Doctor helps Ruby understand that life isn’t always satisfying, sometimes a mother leaves her child, and use time travel to explore this theme. Such an episode could be powerful and poignant.
I think how overly positive the characters are is also super uninteresting. There is NO drama anymore, every single character loves everyone and I’m sorry that doesn’t make interesting TV.
While positivity is great, the current tone of the show means characters are constantly complimenting each other, making them one-dimensional and without flaws. Iconic moments, like Capaldi's War Monologue, Eccleston's PTSD anger, and Tennant's refusal to end his adventures, resonated because of the debates and conflicts with other characters. The new show’s characters, however, seem limited to saying things like "YOU GO GIRL." This lack of depth makes the show feel more like "Teletubby Hour" than compelling drama. Ncuti Gatwa (hope that’s spelled right) looks the part and shows moments of promise, but he hasn't been given much to work with.