Deep Intel on the Bekaa Valley Raid Disaster
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Ward reviews the disastrous two-carrier strike on the Bekaa Valley following the Beruit Marine Barracks bombing in 1983.
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1983 was a real flashpoint during the Cold War. USSR shooting down Korean Airlines Flight 007, Soviet false alarm incident that almost launched ICBMs to the US, and the Able Archer NATO exercise that the Soviets thought were real....we came really close to ending everything that year.
And "99 luftballons" was released.
But it didn't
Ward, I was the VA-176 MO and flew one of the A-6s on the Lebanon strike. I remember some of the detail a bit differently. Would be glad to get with you to discuss, as I too live in Annapolis. Iron Belly
I was a newly-minted intel officer in VA-176 on the Indy when this took place. Thanks for providing me with the background information we didn't have at the time, and for discussing the steps taken afterward by the Navy to address the mistakes that were made.
Did you make the cruise after this one? (I was in VF-32.)
@@WardCarroll Yes, I made the next cruise on Indy, and may have done a debrief with you a time or two in CVIC. I don't see your picture in the 83-84 cruise book; but you do pop up in the 84-85 MED/IO edition, next to fellow Intel Puke 'Jet' Mathis. Exciting times.
Loved the shot of 212 on the cat! I was the plane captain for that cruise but the image is too blurry to see my name on the NLG door. 212 was the most reliable of our three TARPS birds, and my skipper flew the recon mission the day before that prompted the retaliatory raid. Not a scratch on the jet, but a photo of the AAA fire coming up at it got posted next to maintenance control outside the ready room for us all to see for the rest of the cruise. Thanks for the video! So many memories.
Bobby Goodman was in CWV-8 in VA-65 with us during Desert Storm (I was a VAQ guy). He was given the option, having spent time as a POW in the region already, of not going back into combat during ODS but of course gave his full measure instead. Great guy.
Goodman was with VA-176 in 1987 when I was with HS-15. I'll second the "great guy" statement.
Bobby "Benny" Goodman? Him and Mike "Speedy" Haffner were featured in a documentary about the Intruder. I thought he was in VA-36 Roadrunners because of the chest patch on his flight suit
May well have been 36, they were in ready 2 on TR so we saw more of them. @@pontiacGXPfan
@@pugs11ful the TR? The Valions and Golden Warriors were there too. Robert "Dozer" Dwyer died when his Hornet crashed into the water
Ward , I was a plane captain in Va176 that day I remember the A7 coming back to
The boat with most of the tail missing
According to my log book, I flew plane guard on this mission on 12/04/83. I was a twenty year old rescue swimmer with the HS-7 Dusty Dogs on board the USS JFK at the time. Very somber moment when the Devil Dogs flew Lt. Lange's body back on board after only just having buried 300 of their own. That was a difficult cruise, we also lost two F14's and a COD and I logged over 1000 hrs in the mighty SH3H. Ironically; as the squadron SAR petty officer, I had given VA85's ready room a combat SAR brief only a few days prior to this mission. I vividly remember Lt Lange and Goodman. Thank you Ward for keeping this sliver of history alive for those of us that were there. Fairwinds and following seas shipmates.
I watched the Lebanon strike in person. We (on the USS Guam) were horrified to see a daytime swarm flying at roughly 5000 feet eastbound. We rescued one of the A7 pilots that morning.
As a 20-something airframer with VF-32 aboard Indy, after Grenada & then the barracks bombing, I can tell you mine and the mood with most of my shipmates was one of disappointment.
We were amped & ready for a fight. After the deployment we felt a little 'tail between the legs' as we headed back across the Atlantic.
Never forget the 241.
I am hoping the present-day imbeciles in Pentagon do not feel "amped & ready for a fight" ... cause the result will be much worse. It is one thing to believe you can do something. It is a different thing to realize you failed .... while the world goes to hell
I was on the overnight bomb load and launched the A6's off the Indy as an AE3 (electrician) Trouble Shooter for VA-176 on my first cruise. This is a day that is seared into my memory having had a front row seat to history and all that that brought. We had just finished 15 hour overlapping shifts coming out of combat ops in Grenada and were quite exhausted when we arrived on station. I remember the Atlantic transit when the ships CO announced the massive loss of life in the bombing and thinking, Wow, we're heading into our second war zone in a month? I will never forget the pilots faces as they came up for their walkarounds. No smiles, no jokes, sanitized suits and side arms. It was that moment I realized that some of them may not come back and it became real as real gets. Launching at that time of the morning in broad daylight made zero sense to us as the A6 did it's best work at night flying low level knap of the earth profiles. It ensured that every Russian "fishing" trawler between us and the coastline would be warning the adversarial air defenses. The weirdest part about it was hosting Loretta Lynn and her band the next evening for a previously schedule USO show in the hangar bay. They played on a stage constructed from empty metal bomb crates. The symbology of it was rather surreal.
Part two:
On the day of this strike, they asked for some of us to assist in pushing bombs. They were pushing bombs so fast from magazines that a Sailor went down with a hernia. I spoke to him recently. I was given a pair of low cut steel tipped “Boondockers” to help push bombs. As Infantry by trade, this was an odd feeling to us. We only wore high top boots. A Chief gave me a second pair of high top type afterwards. I eventually mailed those two pair home to my younger brothers for the NYC winter of 83/84.
Planes were coming back from the strike. We were observing them being trapped, then pilots and BN’s exiting their planes. A few of the Aviators kissed the greasy flight deck. Obviously, this confused us. We went down to the hatch, to the catwalk that led to the Captain’s passageway to ask how the strike went. I recognized a pilot who used to tag along for PT with the MarDet in the morning. I asked him what occurred. His lips were shaking, he had tears in his eyes, and grease on his lips. It took me a little time to make the connection to that color on his lips and the earlier scene of Aviators kissing the flight deck. We were actually asking each other what that was on their lips. Every Aviator that passed us thereafter just mumbled what was almost always an inaudible response, if they responded at all. They were all shaken. A few were crying. Besides the incidents where we had to place them on the deck due to an “Exclusion area” violation, I had never seen any of them shaken up like that before. It was unsettling, to say the least.
The news of a downed aircraft came in. The CAG from the Indy. Then the second A7 that was damaged, which managed to land. I have a picture of that plane, sitting on the deck with damage. A Sailor friend of mine took the picture with his personal camera. News of the condition and whereabouts of our aviators was uncertain for a while. News/Intel came in slowly.
All of us knew Goodman very well. He had been involved in a barricade landing prior to this. That’s highlighted in the JFK 83 Med cruise book. I remember that day well. We all watched his plane land without a wheel. Sparks were flying. The net did its job. They both jumped out of their plane as the entire ship’s crew roared like a Super Bowl touchdown. We now wondered if he and Lange were possibly KIA.
One of the pilots who passed by said that there were missiles everywhere in the sky during the strike. We were very familiar with what the Syrians had in theater. We spent time in CVIC and knew the photo analysts well. They did fantastic work in identifying hidden bunkers and ammo storage facilities. I still have some of those pictures.
This shows the potentially fatal flaws of centralized planning. The carrier task group should have been the one planning the mission and Washington and the Pentagon should have only been providing the intel and the intention. Let the aviators come up with the best way and give them all the resources they need
Excellent video. I was with the Marines in Beirut 82-83. We should have learned from the Israelis. Respond to every attack immediately with overwhelming force.
Yeah after USS Liberty the US should have smashed the Israelis with overwhelming force.
But who would you have attacked? The US Intel in the middle-east has always been dreadful.
Up until 1980, the US had always relied on British Intelligence sources. But by the time of Beirut, Thatcher had ruined The Foreign Office. (She thought they were too 'posh' and resented the fact that most were way cleverer than her.) By the time of Beirut, Brit and US Intels were equally sh*t.
They still are - hence the stupid invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan. Massive retaliation only has a point if you punch the right guy.
Best wishes.
i4i
WWJB
Ward, I lost a classmate, killed by a sniper the week before the barracks bombing, then another from the barracks bombing itself. I was on CARGRU 8 Staff under RADM Tuttle before he transferred to CTF 60. When we, his previous staff, heard about how this raid went down we were dumbstruck. This was nothing like what we had ever planned while doing ops as COMCARSTRIKEFLT (the NATO Carrier Commander). So now I know what the hell happened. Thanks for the info backfill.
I believe CSM Eric Haney [ret] wrote about your situation and helped alleviate that problem.
Another fabulous report. I am so impressed with your ability to find relevant photos and video clips to illustrate your reports, and your editing is very professional.
As the first planning cell intel officer at NAVSTKWARCEN, I had the privilege of hearing CAG Andrews version in person at his side in the planning cell to a small huddle. Flying in an A-7E with an alert load, he had a shrike. In the melee, he let fly the shrike toward parts unknown. There were emitters active. Someone else used their Mk-80 series weapons on a block building likely associated with the Stentor radar that was on high ground. I do not recall if the Stentor was on the target list but the Wing was aware of the surface search radar that gave Syria situational awareness in the EastMed. It was believed afterward that the building struck was a command and control center and the result was a high body count, both Syrian and Soviet. The missiles fired at CAG and others were SA-7 Grails but with the advantage that they were firing co-altitude or down on the jets as the passed through mountainous terrain en route the Bekaa valley. This scenario gave the SA-7's a surprising amount of energy. The linkage of the targets selected was they were D-30 122mm guns and had fired on U.S. assets in previous days. A few of the guns were knocked out with Rockeye. As you said, these were nothing targets attacked at great risk. I'm happy to discuss the early days at NAVSTKWARCEN 1986-1989.
Sir, do you believe continued US naval strikes, could have changed the region's political climate for a sustained period?
I served in 2 Phantom squadrons out of Kaneohe Bay in the 80s and was fortunate enough to have had both the Miramar and Fallon deployments. I was on the maintenance end of the planes but the experience the whole squadron got from these deployments really elevated our state of readiness and confidence during the 'Cold War'.
Would love to hear more about wrenching the Rhino if you don't mind. Always loved that aircraft from the 1970s-forward. Did you wrench F-4Js and F-4Ss?
My first air show was the F-4's last season with the T-Birds. We had a bunch of them at Edwards AFB (F-4C, D, E) and George AFB nearby (F-4Gs).
NASA had at least one for FBW testing if I recall. Chuck Yeager would often break the sound barrier in an F-4E at Edwards for the open house.
VS-28, Uss Independence. Got pics somewhere of the crippled A-7 that made it back. Not enough blame placed where it belonged, JCS and the pentagon tap dancers.
Fred Astaire and Sammy Davis Jr. could learn from them.
VAQ-131(AT) here, I too have picks of that A-7 somewhere in my house.
I was in my early teens when this happened. I remember being shocked that 2 aircraft got shotdown.
I was the same age. It was shock after shock. First, barracks bombing and the gut wrenching special reports, news footage, and news of local Marines and sailors killed or wounded. Then the shoot downs. It felt like the apocalypse to a teen who was forming a world view.
I’m Lebanese and I never heard of this event. Thank you for the video and carry on the great work !
I've never heard of it either and I'm not even Lebanese.
In 1984, the New Jersey battleship fired its 16 inch (41cm) guns at targets in Lebanon also.
I served under Vice Admiral Martin when he was the CO of the USS Saratoga (CV-60) for the 1978-79 Med Cruise when I was with the RVAH-12 Det as part of CVW-3.
I'm a USS John F Kennedy CVA-67 Plank Owner. My first 9 months I worked on Cat 3, generally as bridle hook up, but we cross trained in all positions. I transferred to V-1 Crash & Salvage were I finished out my 4 year enlistment, getting out Nov. 19, 1971. I enjoyed hearing the explanation of this mission and what really happened. Shipboard personnel rarely get the straight skinny on such things.
Mooch, Air Force Zoomie here...Enlisted Aircrew on RC-135, Rivet Joint Intel Collection missions out of Hellenikon AB, Greece (the old Athens Airport) , and I was an Airborne MIssion Supervisor (AMS) on these missions. We were flying off the Lebanese coast at the time the F-14/TARPS took fire from a Syrian ZSU-23/4. That was one pissed off aviator and as he went feet wet he called the E2 (the callsign escapes me, but I think it was CLOSE OUT from JFK) and said, (I quote), "I have a good mark on the target and I'm ready to lead the strikers back in." It's my understanding that there was a flight of A7's on "strike alert" flying, but I could be wrong. Either way, ALPHA BRAVO came over the frequency and told the TARPS to return to Mother. Now, he was an even more pissed off pilot.
The next day during the strike, my best friend, Billy D Taylor was airborne mission supervisor when, imagine his surprise, was told as his mission was inbound to the "sensitive" area (any area where our RC-135's were operating) that there was a strike commencing on targets in the valley. Billy set up to provide as best of "ad hoc," no planning support as possible, but even with amplification data on "Link 11," we were, at best, non-interfering. During the confusion, an SA-5 battery locked up the Rivet Joint, and our communicator "miscommunicated" that our bird was under attack. Due to our rules of engagement, once that call was made, we had to abort.
Since that time, USAF and USN made great strides in interoperability, and soon 6th Fleet started including out unit (the 6916th Electronic Security Squadron, "The Raiders) in all tactical and ATO correspondence, because we could provide information the Naval Aviators needed. It was the best time of my career flying in the Med. Every reunion we have, the stories are re-hashed with slightly more embellishment, as aircrews have a tendency to do. Imagine that.
All these 40 years I wondered why Strike didn't let the TARPS bird lead the strikers back in. Your video has answered that question (frustratingly so). Thanks, Mooch. Keep up the good work and good content.
"Stellar" Stu Skeen
PS-How I got my callsign is a good beer story.
I remember when this happened, I was 19. We were all in disbelief that the Navy hadn’t changed anything in their tactics after all the lessons of Vietnam.
Just be thankful you probably don't remember someone named Robert McNamara.
Yeah, that's normal. We never do change anything.
I was serving as a JO - ship's company on JFK during this time. It was a rough time, for sure. You provided a good narrative of this. Our airwing (CVW-3) lost a number of aircraft and some great people in these years - non-combat losses. You may remember 'Belly '& 'Bam Bam'? George Wilson got around the ship a lot and wrote a pretty decent book. Thanks for this, Mooch.
I briefly served under Admiral Tuttle aboard USS Eisenhower before we rotated home. He seemed like a determined, almost single-minded officer who didn't fool around. Tough tough guy.
Just another good old tough boy👊🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸
Now the boys wear skirts. Lol
And yet he let this happen
@@pitts64lb As I said elsewhere Tuttle was responsible but not to blame. He as any Naval Officer follows orders and tries to execute the mission as ordered. To do otherwise would be a breech in military discipline. Because this event drug on over a few months the entire dynamics of the raid shifted and Tuttle was being directed from way above his position to conduct the raid as defined by the leadership. Although I was not with him on Kennedy ( I was his Air OPerations Officer while he was on Ike) I am completely positive that he objected quite forcefully to the task order but once the decision was made he did his best to complete the mission. I have spent as much time at sea with Tuttle as anyone. I was assigned many responsible jobs under Tuttle when he fired the officer in the position. I watched people getting fired and it always amazed me that these otherwise competent guys would be stupid around Tuttle. Prior to Tuttle taking over CTF60 the prior Admiral was Admiral Martin who was promoted to 6th Fleet. Tuttle was CARGRU4 in Norfolk and was promoted to CTF60. I was Ike's Air OPs and would watch the CTF staff play bridge at night and watch movies eating lots of popcorn. I went to them on several occasions and said Tuttle's coming you guys better change your ways. They all told me .....dont worry we will train him. I thought, this is going to be bloody, and it was. Within days of arriving he fired his chief of staff....a major signal to the staff, but they seemed to not get the message. Over the years I knew that I could talk to Tuttle about anything I was responsible for and he would listen I could give him advice and he would listen and sometimes take my advice but if he said I understand Ron but here is what I want to do, I knew damn well not to continue to debate the subject but to say Aye Aye sir and do my best to execute as he wanted. If I did that and failed, and several times I did fail, he would not think poorly of me. The guys he fired never learned to stop debating an issue with him. I tell that story because Tuttle used the same rules when he dealt with his superior's and I believed that played into the reason the raid failed. He said Aye Aye and did his best to execute within the direction given.
A bit of info: SecNav John Lehman who was informed of this raid couldn't believe what happened, a 20 yr old Alpha daylight strike against absolutely useless target. So he personally went to visit the USS J.F. Kennedy, & went in directly to the squadron ready rooms to find out what really happened.
Great episode about an often overlooked event in military history. Love the shirt by the way. Priest never claimed inventing speed metal but the British Steel album definitely turned it up to eleven!
KEEP THE FAITH!
A perfect album.
I was an S-3 pilot on Independence during this event. Of course, they didn't want S-3's going over the beach that day. Which is just as well. I'd already gotten my 6 combat flying hours earlier on that cruise at Grenada. That green ink makes me chuckle every time I look at it. How well I remember "Hunyack". Quite the character. He mostly left us Hoover drivers alone.
BZ, shpmate!
I was an AO2 working the transfer of weapons on the hangar deck, every night we pulled pushed bombs either down to maga of up to the flight deck. It was a grind, we did this for months. SQD bubba's was hurting for AOs so they pulled folks from other rates gave them a safety brief and started humping bombs, to the tune of 100s per night, un load one night up load the next. I remember the scramble that morning especially because it was my birthday. Lol it was a sh#$ show!
Pretty good summary. I was on Indy (CV-62) with VS-28 (S-3As) when did this strike. Heard a few other stories about strike, but reasonably accurate on the weak planning.
Thanks for posting the story I was onboard the USS Eisenhower with VA-12 from 1981-84. Back then before the internet and smartphones almost nobody ever heard of these events that we dealt with unless someone got shot down unfortunately of course. That year was a bad Med deployment for us because we were on station in the mad when the Marine Barracks got blown up. Needless to say we got to experience an emergency recall because we were on Liberty in Naples when that occurred! And yes we definitely remember Admiral Tuttle!
Senior leaders should have been held accountable for this debacle!
Seems they rarely are
You notice that there isn't a anti-REMF training center? 😉
That's probably because the senior leadership of the departments of the government are political appointees by the President. In the UK they are all Members of Parliament and we, the electorship of their constituency can recall them for any reason. The people of Peterborough recalled their MP for being caught lying in court over motoring offences causing a new election, which a new MP from another party was sent to Parliament. That's true democracy at work.
That would be a first!! Leaving Afganistan was the natural culmination of leadership thriving during incompetence. Asskissers win in the end.
I was an enlisted AT (Avionics Tech) and Plane Captain for A-6 Intruders with VA-304 out of NAS Alameda (CAG 30). I cruised on CVN-68, CVN-69 and CVN-70 (early 90's.....not in that order). As an old Vet, it is literally heart-warming to see those beloved A-6's doing what they did best.
The 80's were crazy times. Two carriers at all times in the Med? Wow!
The tempo in that area never seemed to slowdown ever since the Iranian hostage crisis!
And somewhere around a quarter of a million troops (just the US troops!) in Europe!
And the USS New Jersey too!
It wasn't the only occasion when 2 carriers were in the med in the same time: do you remember the 1st one in Naples and the 2nd in South Tirrenian sea on June 27th 1980 Sinaplex Patricia operations?
@@SUP_Bigans And the Gulf War. I seem to remember they had multiple ones then, too.
No matter what advantage you have, never underestimate SAM batteries in defensive positions.
Shrike and HARM missiles make pilot life much easier
@@michaeljohnson4258The military was still using the Standard (ARM) also.
@@michaeljohnson4258 HARM and Shrike not much use against the IR guided SAMs that were being used here.
@@JohnHughesChampigny they were also using old Soviet SAM systems that were radar guided.
Good video, I was aware of Schulz putting Marines in a precarious position. But not the strike aircraft leadership having so many deficiencies. The navy tactics were similar to the Vietnam era.
I was an AF Intel officer assigned to an AFSOF unit in EUCOM 1984-87. Circa 1986, I deployed on the Nimitz in the Med with an MH-53 driver to assist with planning a strike in the Bekaa Valley. AFSOF was to provide CSAR. We spent three days on the ship planning that concluded with a brief to Adm Kelly. I was well versed in low-level mission planning to avoid detection and engagement by air defense--bread & butter for AFSOF. Me and the helo driver concluded our planning and during the outbrief, the Adm asked how we planned to C2 rescue ops? All SOF aircraft had secure SATCOM. Our plan was to deploy a commo unit on the ship to run communications. So, I reached into the pocket of my flight suit and pulled out a crypto key tape (the old gray plastic cartridge) and turned to the N6 and said, "CAC it up for a test shot to our home base." He did and we had a successful commo test. After the brief, the N6 pulled me aside and said, "in the Navy, it takes 2-person control with key tape and me carrying this around in my flight suit was not cool on the ship." I suppose, although I did have the proper courrior letter, secure packaging and clearances sent to the ship. In hindsight, I should have secured the key tape with the N6 upon my arrival on the ship. In SOF, we did things a little different. The strike ops we planned did not happen. This was my first of three deployments on a carrier during my time in SOF. Fun!
I just pulled up a great article on the raid from the September 7, 1986 Washington Post. It was written by their then defence correspondant George C. Wilson.
"The Day We Fouled Up the Bombing of Lebanon".
He also wrote a book called "Supercarrier"...not related to the TV show!
Had the book at one time.
We lost this one IMHO because we failed to heed Sun Tzu: the King is to have no say is determining the order of battle. (Battle should be left entirely in the hands of the Generals [Field Commanders].)
The most important thing about a disaster is learning from it. One of the best aspects of the US Armed Services is learning the lessons that were paid for in blood.
Like the bolds in NATOPS.
Well said.
So why then was the deliberate attack on the USS Liberty hushed up?
Yeah, just like learning from Vietnam in Afghanistan……..wait what?
@@angeloftheabyss5265 yeah, we learned from both
What planet have you lived on? The Armed Forces and the US Government haven't learned sh*t since after the end of WW2. The "lesson" is Americans knowing that they DO NOT belong everywhere on Earth.
Thanks for making videos about all of these very small engagements that went on. I bet if you asked 1000 Americans about the Beirut bombing, Grenada, or Panama, maybe a few of them would have any idea what you were talking about.
Would any know of the attack on the USS Liberty?
@@The_ZeroLine More likely only Gen X or Boomers remember the Reagan era. Gen Y, the Millenials, weren't born or were still in diapers. As a Boomer with Millenial kids, my kids have no clue about the Reagan era, or Carter era, or Vietnam, Watergate, etc. But all those events are clear as day in my memories.
Can add "Line of Death" to the list.
@@gandalfgreyhame3425gree wholeheartedly. I’m GenX (66) and I remember it all and then some. I think it’s because we were the last generation to be born before big digital and a thousand cable channels. So, so many distractions.
Most Americans now have no idea what the capital of the country is ...sad
LT Mark Lang didn't die before he hit the ground. There is a picture of Mark getting put into the trunk of a car - he is looking up at the photographer. The photo was published in several papers, but I have lost my copy. Mark was my classmate at the Naval Academy, Class of 1979 - OmnesViri.
I was on the Kennedy March 1981 to Oct. 1984 in Engineering A-3 Div. and remember this well . After Goodman was released they also released Mr. Lang and flew his body back to the Kennedy where an autopsy was done . While we headed back to Norfolk from the Mediterranean. An HC1 who I new had helped on the autopsy told me Mr. Land had died from bullet wounds he received while coming down in his parachute after ejection . Mr. Goodman was on the pier when we pulled into Norfolk . I am sorry and still saddened for the loss of our Shipmate Mark Lang .
Yes, this is the way I heard it. Mark was alive on the ground, and the captors let him bleed to death with no first aid. I assumed the story came fm Goodman who survived and was a witness, but I don't know.
Mark and I were the only plebes on the Glee Club together first year. A good man. Our first combat loss. Omnes viri.
Addendum...the story as I heard it was that Mark's legs were broken, and he died from blood loss.
agree, Lt Lange was still alive when he hit the ground. At least everyone in VA-85 was told that on the ship.
I was deployed on the
gator freighter LST-1197 as part that deployment fresh from
the invasion of Grenada. I extended to finish the deployment like a sailor should. It was the end of my 4 years at sea duty. So Commander as you well know us East Coast guys are Meds, North Atlantic and Persian Gulf. I'm a old man now but I had to
do it again I would just
as you or your Dad. The New Jersey shoot
300,400 or 500 rounds
in there first couple of
nights after change of
command ceremony.
The threat of being hit
by suicide planes or helicopter was so high
there were 4 stations
for Stinger missiles manned to defend the
ship under self preservation. I won't
want it any other way,
it was an honor and
privilege to serve under those circumstances.
I am lebanese and I never knew about this raid. Very interesting info thanks for sharing the details!
Even with how many (?) hands those mission plans and orders went through, nobody picked up on the time zone error? Or a low ranked kid noticed it but was afraid to bring it up after seeing the quick tempered Boss lose it before.
It's these little facts that Mooch points out that aren't always flattering that raise my respect for him. Also for the pilots and sailors that get their jobs done regardless of fatigue or fear.
Good show. Another example of learning the hard way.
I became the aide RDML Wheatley who was the CO of JFK during this raid and was well acquainted with, at the time, RADM Tuttle. I highly recommend “Super Carrier” by George C. Wilson as a good account of this event.
Gary Wheatley was a fine Naval Officer. I had several tours with him including one at NAVAIR when he was my boss. He had lots of great stories about Radm Tuttle. Commander Wheatley was CAG 7 on Slack Jack when Tuttle was CO. I was in VF32. Tuttle was a stickler for performance. He had many strict rules one was about how long the ship should be in the wind launching and recovering, he was always pushing PIM. That lead up to exacting interval times on the ball and improved technique getting out of the wires and over the foul line. Well as you can imagine guys were not too worried about interval unless they got a foul deck WO. Tuttle would ground Wheatley and order him to sit in the tower with a stop watch and record intervals. Offending pilots got the opportunity to stand behind Tuttle's seat on the bridge and get chewed out by "Sluf". People complained but the actual truth was that the airwing and ship became an impressive team and Super K always won the Battle E under Tuttle. I doubt if today such discipline exists. Wheatley suddenly passed away a few years ago. Tuttle passed away last year. I was honored to serve under both of them.
Thank you for this video. I was a junior Intelligence Specialist with Admiral Tuttle's staff (CTF-60) onboard Indy at this time. I remember a LOT of micro-management regarding types of ordnance to be used, and even which bombs would be on which pylon, coming NavEur and SixthFlt, or higher. I also remember CAG Andrews coming back to Indy after being fished from the drink. He was a big guy and ejecting from a damaged, cramped A-7 caused him more than a few cuts and bruises.
I did an in-depth research paper on this strike as a PhD student at Johns Hopkins SAIS in the late 1990s. I interviewed most of the main people in-person, including Bobby Goodman, CAG Ed “Hunyak” Andrews (what a character-his water recovery from ejection was an epic story), CAG John “Maz” Mazach (JFK), and senior leaders at CINCUSNAVEUR and EUCOM. Ward gets the main story correct, which I appreciate. But there were some nefarious characters involved such as SECNAV Lehman and his personal admiral provocateur, “Ace” Lyons. Interestingly, the Indy’s strike went off well and JFK’s was a complete debacle. Mazach had also lost another aircraft previously but was in charge of Lehman’s favorite “all Grumman wing” (Lehman was an A-6 BN). Although Hunyak’s Indy strike went well (and he led the strike) and Mazach’s was awful, Andrews retired as a captain and Mazach went on to be a vice admiral as did the task force commander onboard the JFK, JO Tuttle. My interview with Mazach was interesting… There were some serious C2 disconnects between EUCOM, CINCUSNAVEUR, SECNAV, CNO, and JO Tuttle (again, a real character to interview) that also led to the Goldwater-Nichols Act that gave more C2 control to the regional combatant commander. I believe the Lange/Goodman a/c was tail number 555, not 556, but I could be wrong. Also my understanding was that Lange died because he didn’t separate from his seat and died on impact with the ground. RIP. He had been porpoising because, as noted here, his plane was the only one fully loaded and could not keep up with the others. Part of the Strike U integration was how to best incorporate intelligence. Intell knew about the SA-7s but the crews did not. So not only was the Vietnam-era Alpha Strike changed, but the whole process of intelligence (threat) integration. Again, great job by Ward to remind us of a very strange air strike from the late Cold War. 🇺🇸
Nice job of filling in some of the details, Tommy.
Thank you for this info.
The comments on this channel are often gold. Thanks for your contribution.
Good stuff, Tommy. Thanks for the detail.
@@WardCarroll PS: Hunyak shared with me that he was chosen to debrief defector pilot of the MiG-25 Foxbat named Victor I. Belenko. Hunyak (pronounced HUN-yock) could recall almost every exchange with Belenko, who he despised. Why? Because he was a defector. Anyone who would flee from his country, even an avowed enemy, was a despicable character to Hunyak. After more than a few drinks he shared with me that whereas he was an F-14 Tomcat driver, he flew the A-7 in that strike not entirely knowing the dash configuration. He thought he was flaring when the SA-7 came up at him but he had failed to arm the flares so he was, as he put it, “shooting blanks.” The missile got him and he flew out over Beirut Harbor before his Corsair II (aka The Harley, or SLUF or The Gator) fell apart under him and he ejected. He was picked up by a French journalist in a cigarette boat with bikini-clad passengers. He then had to be sequestered by people he didn’t know and eventually rescued from a soccer stadium by the good guys and went on a mad dash through the streets. All worthy of a movie. In a final irony, his pilotless jet impacted an apartment building in Beirut killing a number of innocent people inadvertently. That place was the wild, Wild West in the 1980s but wilder with Hunyak there. Truly a fighter pilot’s fighter pilot.
Another GREAT video Commander! Whenever I log on to YT, I look for your latest videos. As a career long Prowler TWEET (AT), my initial question as I started watching the video was what role the Prowlers played. As you detailed in the video, I think much of this strike was "the last war" tactics. Thinking back on that time, the Prowlers were primarily focused on RADAR controlled weapon systems. Over the ensuing years (I retired in 1995), like other communities the Prowlers gained other capabilities (HARM) and I assume improved tactics and air wing integration. BTW, love the CAG-1 patch, three cruises with them (VAQ-137) on board America.
I was in high school at this time and followed the story very very closely. I never understood the full story and why the strike went so badly until this video. Thank you so so much.
Great episode. I really appreciate your attention to detail and honesty.
I was driving a guided missile frigate off Beirut in 83-84. We were air defense for USS New Jersey and also acted as air coordinator for the near-shore area. I remember the air strike and talked with A-7 pilots later in Italy. They said it was worse than they ever saw in Vietnam. One of the F-14 TARPS pilots refused, on the radio, to fly down the Bekaa Valley presumably due to its danger. He returned to Kennedy. I recall losing an A-7 and the pilot of an A-6 after the Bekaa strike.
Remember this one from the terrible video of a US Navy pilot who ejected from low altitude and landed still strapped to his seat horribly injured when a Syrian military officer walked over to him and shot him in the head through his helmet. In a sad way it was a mercy killing considering the missing legs of the pilot. This operation was a total screw up from the get-go.
Thanks, Ward. Very illuminating.
Particularly impressed with this detail-packed exposition of a mission with huge historical impact and significance. Thanks for all your hard work, Ward.
That's what happened when the CNO was left out of the loop. Heads did roll. Naval strike was declared successful because NJ repositioned and then obliterated the required targets and surrounding area with main battery naval gunfire.
My error, I was in VF-143 at the time and we didn’t ever launch the strike. I was in VF-14 on Kennedy so much, I was confused. We were relieved by Kennedy and heading home by the time the strike happened. SLUF had a good strike plan and we manned it up at least 4 maybe 5 times and cancelled it every time at the last minute. I was tasked to fly BDA all of those times. JW “Grumpy”
I love the straightforward and professional presentations on this channel - BZ!
You can make a complete stranger feel like You were my neighbor, shipmates, qualified, veteran, American in twenty five minutes, oohhh, dad and my son! Gratitude to you two for the experience, thank you........
I was an AT for VAQ-131 Lancers on the Indy during this. When CAG got shot down, our Skipper CDR.. Kennedy became CAG. When an A-7 came back aboard with it;s tail cone missing and holes in the stab and rudder, we knew this was for real. I remember helping some AOs on the attack squadrons drop and rearm some weapons as everyone was busy and my Prowler was ready to go. We pulled a 36hr. shift that day.
I was on the Kennedy, in the early 80's, in the Med. alone battle group, with NATO.
Was BN in VA65 on Ike that had just returned home from Med. Was surprised that strike went off the way it did.
Well done, Ward. Your unique insider’s understanding of both the granular details and big picture context brought this vignette of US Naval history (and the history of American Cold War projection of power) to life. Top notch production values as well.
The only thing missing in the Bekaa Valley strike from your SOP Vietnam Alpha Strike was the reconnaissance asset zooming by 5 minutes after the main strike.
Love your analysis of these historical events! Thank you, Semper Fi.
Thanks skipper great Navy Aviation history, can you put some of the fighter missions over Vietnam together and discuss how it shaped modern fighter operations.
Always very worthy Ward. Learning from mistakes is an extremely important but very difficult lesson.
I have a buddy I unfortunately haven't seen in ages, who was an A-6 B/N in VA-85 at this time and IIRC was sitting on the deck of JFK as part of another attack wave, when it was scrubbed due to the Lange/Goodman and CAG Andrews shoot downs. He said all the aircrew were quite pissed off at the "National Command Authority" for forcing them to attack in the morning, flying into the sun as Mooch said, and not in the afternoon as they had contingency planned. It's nice that some good - the founding of Strike U - came out of it, but that still won't stop pencil-neck politicians from making stupid directives they know nothing about. You just have to hope someone in the chain of command is willing to push back with better tactical options - and follow the age old axiom of ordering what to do, but not directing (shoehorning) how to do it.
Glad to see this post; one minor correction. The strikes were west of the Bekaa Valley in the Ras al Matn, hitting targets around Hammana, which lies along the Beirut -Damascus Highway.
Excellent content, as always, Mooch. I always learn something new. I'm old enough to remember Jesse Jackson being involved in a Middle East hostage situation, but I didn't know the details.
Great job Ward! I always love the information you share.
It is sad that it tends to cause lives to learn valuable lessons!
Capt. Tuttle was my CO, Weapons Dept. JFK, and was just days away from change of command when he suffered the Kennedy / Belknap collision at sea.
I served on a Navy ship and in 83 we were in the med and went through the Suez Canal. Our ship was a repair ship, a non-combatant. All we had were some 50 calibers and 20 mm which was stored down below. We had no escort and always sailed alone. I look back on it now and think that we would have been an easy target.
Thanks for the history lesson
I was with PHIBRON 8 N2 shop and helped investigate the BLT bombing, returning CONUS with the IWO JIMA in December 83.
Ward, can we get some Deep Intel on what's going on in Russia?
Rog. Stay tuned.
Good call. Was wondering that myself. BZ
This is what happens when politicians get involved in the minutiae of mission planning.
Had they simply given combat objectives and let the professionals handle the planning...
Same SOPs that allowed the North Vietnamese to be prepared for the air package deliveries north of the DMZ
Love the content Ward, please keep it up!!
I'll have to ask my friend about what he knows about this, he knew quite a few people in other squadrons during his time with VMA/AW-121. I think I got that right, been a long time. Used to drive our Vega(remember those?) from SD to El Toro for several months so he could visit every weekend, until I left for BT(army). God bless all those guys for everything they did.
Well...I didn't know that. Thank you.
Thanks for this ward. Excellent research.
Great presentation, as usual. Was totally unaware of this debacle.
Great video!
As a Chief Quartermaster assigned to Cargru7, I attended Strike U having recently transferred from the surface Navy. Any rational analysis of the US raids on Lebanon can only render a verdict of the raid being a set-up destined for the US pilots and aircraft to be destroyed. Long before that, the US Embassy in Beirut was destroyed by a truck bomb. So why were the Marines billeted in at building of the same architecture as the embassy and not allowed to defend themselves, only to suffer the same fate? Reagan and his cabinet members wanted incidents to outrage the American people and demand a wider involvement in the middle east... to benefit US corporations' interests in the region. Smedley Butler hit the nail on the head back in the 1930's... the US military has been used as fodder to further the wealth accumulation of the mega corporations. Would appreciate a rebuttal Ward.
Awesome review!
Thank you for your service to our country, sir. Thank you very much.
I was on the gunline in USS Garcia FF1040 . We conducted coordinated illumination in Beka Valley
@ward Carrol : respect on how credible you are when you thoroughly research a topic. Many TH-cam videos try to tell the story of the civil war or wars in Lebanon and I see tons of BS. I lived that period, I remember that air raid and its aftermath like yesterday. Was a kid and just finished high school. I was in Medevac with Red Cross and what you are telling is 100% true !! Kudos !
I was AD and plane captain on the Independence back then. VA-87 A7 Squadron. I believe a some point we were there. That’s kinda cool!
I was on the JFK for the '82 Med/IO cruise. We were scheduled for a port visit to Haifa, Israel after coming back through the Suez Canal into the Med in June. The port visit was cancelled due to tensions in the the Bekaa Valley between Israel and Syria, and we ended up going to Naples instead. Years later, I find out that Israel had conducted a major operation against the SAM defenses in the Bekaa Valley in June of '82 while we were in that general area. The IAF also shot down a bunch of Syrian aircraft that day as well. Just a coincidence maybe?
Working until the wee hours onboard AFS-5 during the late 80s it would've been a huge boost in morale knowing someone in O Country was jamming away to British Steel while I prepping cargo for the days unrepping that was to follow. \m/
I criticize some of your content but this type of video is excellent……you are so good at giving details of Naval Aviation and history…..thumbs up from me on this one….
History will tell all, hehehe but the big shots must READ it. And yes I was a Army Scout, in a OH-6A in RVN. Some times at a briefing, we would ask, who planned this Daffy Duck. A Officer with NO Combat Skills.
Thank you for your story!
Failure is usually caused by doing things the way it's always been done . Thinking doesn't hurt .
You actually pronounce Bekaa Valley the correct way. A lot of people mispronounce it... kudos!
Great video, very informative! I was a high school senior when this raid happened, I remember following it closely and seeing that photo of an exhausted Goodman leaning on his captor.
I was the fly two PO on the Kennedy when they struck the marine barracks. We were ending our deployment and going to pick up our Tigers riding home. Well that cancelled that. My father and brother had a story to tell getting home. Go Navy.