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Vintage Sopwith Camel "crashes" on takeoff at Old Rhinebeck airshow
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 22 ส.ค. 2016
- The pilot of a vintage Sopwith Camel biplane loses control on take off and "crashes" into a building after ground looping.
For all the criticism people must know that the Camel was one of the most difficult planes to master. Accidents were frequent.
Yeah i've heard that more sopwith camel pilots died in crashes than in actual fights
Just the very reason NOT to fly it. Anybody that tries is brain dead.
the gee bee R2 was harder
Yessir, correct..short-coupled, along with gyroscopic tendencies 'cause of the rotary engine!!
@@jaimesarabia9830 Heard about/know about that "Flying Barrel" too!
Hats off to the brave aviators and engineers of yesteryear that paved the way to the incredible technology we are accustomed to today.
My!! Now there's a great, heartfelt, honest critique there!!..Thanks!!
And especially grateful for getting the (French) idea of a rotating engine around a fixed crankshaft - i.e. a front-mounted flywheel - out of the way early on in the development of aviation.
And we still crash em
Reminds Joe when he flew Sopwith Camels during the Canadian Bacon War delivering medical supplies to cure hams.
Got a good belly laugh from that one! Thanks!!!
😂😂
I was there and I saw him, no really I did. I got his autograph. will live forever in my toilet.
so , pigs did fly.
Wow this takes me back, great memories from long before I was born.
I honestly never fully appreciated how unstable these things were. Especially on takeoff and landing.
Yessir, very correct!! Especially with that rotary engine!
They are generally made of very small pieces of wood, covered in organic cloth.
That's the same as me flying model planes, in a big open space always find the smallest thing to crash into
takes a lot of skill and practice.
The way the pilot controls the engine speed is with a blip switch located on top of the control stick. By holding the switch down with his thumb, the magneto is grounded, which shuts electricity off to the spark plugs. This effectively, kills the engine. When the blip switch is released by taking the thumb off the switch, the spark plugs begin to fire again and the engine roars to life. By blipping the switch on (thumb up) and off (thumb down), the pilot can control the speed of the engine for operation on the ground and to slow down for landing. If you watch any old World War I films, you can hear the sound of the engine going . . . Brrrappp! . . . Brrrappp! . . . Brrrappp!. . . when the aircraft comes in to land.
True story? ... great info if it is cheers
Idle adjustment!
@@allanroser1070 Yes it's true of WW1-era rotary engines like this. In these engines the whole crankcase spins around a crankshaft that's bolted to the bulkhead. As far as I know it simply wasn't possible to make a reliable throttling system for these engines so the spark cut "blipper" was the answer.
@@Cheva-Pate The engine doesn't have an "idle" but his mixture is definitely rich!
@@chrisburn7178 Air cooled acft engines even modern ones are intentionally run rich for ground ops, takeoff, full power, and during climb to cool them. In most cases there is a manual control (always red) on the panel that controls the mixture. Once you reach cruise altitude and air speed you lean the mixture for economy. Yes fouled spark plugs is a recurring issue, and 100 hour inspection requirements includes removing, cleaning, and ops checking the plugs. Fouled plugs is also the most common cause of a failed magneto before takeoff check. The shut down procedure is designed with this very rich mixture in mind. To clear the cylinders of fuel you shut down using the 3 Ms in the correct order. Mixture (to idle cutoff) and wait for the engine to die then, Master (off), Mags (off). They still foul plugs like big dogs.
Attended a couple of events at Rhinebeck back in the 80's. Fabulous event! The runway is tiny and surrounded by rather dense forest. The pilots are the best!
I flew in to the airport right next door during the 70's. Didn't trust myself with my C-172 to land at Rhinebeck. The show and displays were wonderful but watching the braver public taking off afterwards from Rhinebeck was breathtaking!
I did fly-in there with my sister and brother in law back in the summer of 1972. Enjoyed it .
As a GA pilot, I love seeing these old aircraft perform! I was privileged to fly in a Stearman once, the old yellow and blue radial engine, tandem seating aircraft, quite a thrill!
And perform it did, I think...
Ah yes, the good old days when you didn't know when, at what altitude and how you would fall out of the sky. Quite thrilling indeed.
Yes, you were privileged. Know of those thru Dad.. Army Air Corps markings. Prob. had the Continental radial,or the Pratt & Whitney R985 Wasp Jr radial!!
Sounds like the Cannibal Queen ❤️
I was there back in the nineties when Gene DeMarco lost power and stalled it into the trees. We heard the muffled crunch of tree branches, then saw him running out of the woods waving to the crowd. As far as I know, he was alright.
Was that the Avro crash?
@@rolandweinberg That was before he swindled Peter Jackson for 100s of thousands and was convicted and jailed.. On release declared bankrupt in NZ and shot through to New York. A rotten bounder old boy.
The Camel had a rotary engine which means the crankshaft is mounted to the airframe and the rest of the engine spins around it. If you ever had a string pull gyro from the museum of science as a kid, you probably remember How it resists turning by applying a force 90 degrees opposite the applied force. Same thing in this plane with its heavy engine spinning would require anticipating what it would do for any attempted change in attitude.
Radial engine, not a rotary engine. The rotary engine was designed by wankle, 50 years later.
Sorry, Rotary engine. The Wankel rotary engine is a different beast. The original rotary engine had the complete engine spinning around a stationary crankshaft, with the propeller bolted not to the crankshaft but to the spinning engine.
If the engine in my aircraft sounded that bad, I be heading straight back to the hanger!.
Kind of looks like that pilot had the same idea.
the comment right above yours says that the pilot controls the engine torque by grounding the magneto ?
I have been to the Rhinebeck air show. Well worth the time and money.
I used to volunteer at the Aerodrome. I would man the fire extinguisher while they started the Camel up in case she caught fire. Fortunately she never did though she spat some fire from time to time.
This plane was a ferocious beast back in its day. It could turn on a dime in one direction because of the immense torque of the engine. That powerful torque is what caused the ground loop you see here. Any tail dragger plane has a tendency for the tail to want to rotate around, and the Sopwith Camel will loop all too easily. Many WWI trainees died in training because of that monster of an engine flipping the plane over if the pilot wasn’t careful. What an incredible piece of technology for its time.
I remember going there back in the early 1970s, with my parents. Was in my 20s then. Still have many film slides of many plans. Back then they actually flew most of them, only a few were in repair and they had a great show with the Black Baron and a blond youg lady dressed in blue. Her Saveur and the Baron would have a pretend dog fight. The Black Baron flew a Fokker and would drop bombs. There was also a mail biplane and others. It was all a great show.
For all of you who don't know...
Pilot was never intending to rake off, rather roll by the audience with the tail up.
Engine was working as designed and not misfiring. This type of rotary engine has no real throttle, just a switch controlling ignition. Usually switches between off, firing one or 3 cylinders, and all cylinders.
Because cylinders rotate with propeller around a stationary crank shaft torque is a big issue. No brakes means that at low speeds the biggest force often means that torque. In this case pilot lowered the tail as power was being reduced. No brakes, no rudder control, and that engine torquing the airframe cause this incident ( not accident).
So, is that the same principle as the make-or-break engines on old tractors ?
308winsniper sorry but I disagree. There is no indication of this happening. After the pilot lifts the tail he goes back to blipping the ignition. The popping noise is normal for this engine. Suggest you watch this m.th-cam.com/video/FvHrbkYEn0k/w-d-xo.html for more info
So was it pilot error or what?
It's not quite that simple. The answer is yes, but really Error was because of limitations of control inherent in this design. This accident is common with these types of engines. I'm hesitant to say the cause is pilot error
Yes, I've never felt comfortable with the harsh term "pilot error" being slapped on most accidents because it implies a degree of negligence, whereas I think the softer term "pilot misjudgement" would be more applicable in many cases such as this one.
The ridiculousness of a.) Not being able to see where you are going and b.) Needing to keep the power on to be able to steer!
Note to self: Never, EVER try to fly a Popping Johnny.
Snoopy would never have done that!
to be fair I believe he flew a later variant ,the Sopwith Kennel.
"Hurry! We need more people to run over to the plane to help out. We only have 25 so far!"
did the pilot survive....the embarrassment?
He nailed it............and the building looked good as new when he was finished.
i know Im quite off topic but do anyone know a good place to watch newly released movies online ?
Remember reading that they were difficult to fly, and this video kind of illustrates that fact. I believe this Sopwith Pup was easier to handle.
Yep, but not in the same league as fighter. Tom Sopwith referred to the Pup as having no vices. Great interview with Tom Sopwith on TH-cam when he was 96
I had a Testors model of one of these and IT crashed too. Took off like a banshee and nose dived right onto the cement.
Sorry about that!!
I shall never understand the human mentality, laughing at someone else's mishap.
🤮
Because its funny?
@@Avgeek1564, how was that funny? I didn’t even think about laughing.
@@huntspoint3442 maybe try getting a sense of humour then!
@@Avgeek1564, maybe you stop being a sadistic jerk.
Never planned to take off.. They state it was to be a high speed taxi.
Click bait.
+
I`ll be catching this episode on Air Crash Investigation any day now.
That’s the reason why most airfield of those times were round fields with no specific runway directions. Always the wind on the nose and plenty of space for „break out‘s“
Unfortunately they had no breaks either…
It‘s always easy to criticize pilots from a wing chair!
Yes, I am a pilot, a taildragger pilot, a CRM assessor, an instructor and well experienced in training instructors.
"ah, put it on...you're going to get hundreds of hits.."
781,187 hits later
Priorities......need those social media hits 🤔
“Oh, I know!”
@@hipser 1.2 million now!
@@rivernet62 aliens guy: "content"
I heard a jet fly over last night that sounded just like the sound of this plane as it was taxiing to take off. Never heard a jet sputter and "backfire" like that before. It was pretty unusual. Like 10 or 12 pop sounds in quick succession.
Bird's, flock of geese
Crash? more like a bad parking accident.
Pa
Parking Accident!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Im rolling on the floor here!!! HAHAHAHAHA
Obviously no plan for an aborted take-off.
Parking accident! 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
The problem world war 1 Planes did not have any braking systems on them. This makes taxing, takeoff and landing way harder. World war 2 plane had differential braking systems that help steer. Taildraggers are a pain in the ass.
Most exactly!! And as said, rotary engines don't help!!
They used to make these planes at the same place I work in Lincoln UK during WW2.
Wow! They were still building WWI aeroplanes during WWII!!
@@kirkstinson7316 sorry I meant for WW1. We also made the first tank in Lincoln.
These biplanes had rotary engines. For those of you that are unaware, I’m not talking about Mazda engines. These rotaries were horrible engines. The crank shaft was stationary and the engine would spin. So the propeller was attached to the engine crank case. They were also lubricated during WWI with cod liver oil due to shortages of oil. Basically a death trap for pilots. But they flew them !
Caster oil, not cod liver oil.
D.R., very exactly!! Used castor oil from what I've read/was told..Not exactly multi-vis oil, synthetic or reg, as we have today, over a century later. Very right on. Think the Camel used the Clerget rotary. Any rotary like that induced high gyroscopic tendencies at high (sic) rpm, that the pilot must plan for/stay ahead of.
I don't think this was case of all rotary engines. Most rotaries had stationary cinders and crankshaft Would spin not the cylinder head assembly
@@theprinceofliberia6793 I believe that you might be confusing rotary engines with radial engines. Rotary engines were basically used during WW 1. If not then I not familiar with the rotary that you are talking about.
@@BsUJeTs you're right. I actually did make that mistake. Now i can imagine problems associated with such huge mass rotating around stationary crankshaft especially at LOW AIRSPEED and high RPM. Thanks for correcting and educating me
The engine wasn’t firing correctly from the onset. The pilot shouldn’t have attempted take-off under any circumstances.
I don't know anything about the motor in that plane, but between the rich exhaust and the sputtering on take off, the damage could have been worse.
Yeah, he never ran it up to speed before takeoff.
Obvious that you don't know about the engine. The smoke is from caster oil. It's a total loss oil system so you always have a fine spray of oil blowing back at you
@@kirkstinson7316 wasn’t it obvious that the motor was not reving up high enough, during warm up?
@@kirkstinson7316 Yes, knew of this..Total drag-and-a-half!!
@@huntspoint3442 Sortof noticed that, as well..
You cannot fly a Sopwith, without a scarf flowing in the wind....
R
*You can't fly any ww1 aircraft without a scarf flowing in the wind
0:24 good thing the ambulance was there
Yessir. Some folks plan for eventualities..
Fire rescue is always ready too
Rhinebeck is such a magical place. Hope airplane and pilot came out of this ok.
Myself as well, being a fmr. pilot.
What a beautiful flight .
Glorious.
Lemme tell ya… A few years ago I tried flying the Wright Flyer simulator at a museum. Those old planes are brutally hard to control. I don’t see how they did it!
Great video thx for sharing.....can harsly wait for the next one
And looking at the red windsock on the yellow building , there was a serious crosswind component.
I've almost had this happen to me in a Piper Cub but I had the benefit of actually having brakes to use differential braking to straighten the aircraft out.
There goes the WW1 Flying Ace, getting airborne with the dawn patrol, off to meet his nemesis, the Red Baron in his Fikker Tri-plane. Fortunately, he kept the root beers to a minimum last night!
Pilot related to Wrong Brothers.
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Damn shame, but glad the damage wasn't too bad.
Hope the guy in the cockpit was ok
you people need to learn the difference between a "crash" vs. "Incident". This is NOT a crash.
That's why they used to operate from Airfields and not airstrips. They could then always take off directly into wind and not be limited by runway direction, obstacles and of course, audiences!
Misleading title. If you listen to the commentary, it was supposed to just be a high speed taxi and a little hop. Not a take off.
No throttle control and ofcourse no brakes. What could possibly go wrong?
That's what I call barnstorming !
All these rocket scientists know absolutely nothing about a WW1 rotary engine, never mind even less knowledge what it takes to fly one of these planes!
No one in the comments anyway.
I've been going to Rhinebeck since the late 1970's. People commenting on here just don't know, but you and I do. :)
@@rolandweinberg Me too. Even flew my model Eindecker at the jamboree one year!
@@mikeyd6957 Ok Mikey D, you're one of "us" too. :)
Most exactly right there!!
Because of the rotating engine torque, the Camel always wanted to turn right. It ha been said; "the easiest way to make a left hand turn in a Camel is to make 3 right hand turns."
270 degrees right == left...
That engine sounds like my belly after a trip to White Castle.
Aahhgghh!! That friggin' hilarious!!..Or after a "Taco Bell Feast"!!
The pilot passed out from carbon monoxide fumes?
@Alan Cogan the fuck, dude?
Hahahahahaha
No shit he hit the building, WWI aircraft and their replicas dont have brakes
man that rotary is hardcore!
Reminds me of when wrong way Feldman flew to Gilligans Island.
Trust us who've been in the community. THAT is not a crash. But still worth seeing-hearing.
He says "You Tube, gonna get hundreds of hits." Wow, 1.3 million and counting!!
Those old planes have no wheel brakes so you have to do all the on ground steering with the rudder. In order for enough prop wash to go over the rudder to steer more power must be added.
..Right.
Interesting. I have the same issue docking my old sailboat. Need 4-5 Kts in reverse (2-3 kts in forward), for the rudder to have an effect. That may not sound a lot but max speed is only 6-7 kts so it takes some time to have any control.
Those rotary engines were hard to control when the were running correctly. That one sounded like it had a dead miss.
Живут же люди, развлекаются,по разному отдыхают,чистота и порядок,люди сыты и довольны,напоминает жизнь в СССР.
If you look at the beginning the whole engine spins with the propeller.
Jonathan Ulfeng...Can't see that with my smartphone. But knew the Camels utilize a rotary engine, likely a Clerget..
At 1:07 it looks like a ghost walks right out of the past above the plane on his preflight prayer.
What a brilliant pilot
Looks to me to be a genuine ground loop accident, not a stunt or humorous. I'm amazed at how ready almost EVERYONE is to opine about technical issues with no authority whatsoever. Modern culture: ptooey.
David Sproul TH-cam. Where all the experts live.
@@Otacatapetl Once again, exactly!! But wanted to view this one, when saw it was a Sopwith Camel having a problem on takeoff..
Thank God there was that small building to stop him, otherwise there was nothing but open spaces for him everywhere else on the field. Whew! That was close.
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
One of my family is buried in France from a mishap flying one of these in 1917
There is not a problem with the engine...those early rotary engines controlled rpm by basically cutting the engine off and on.
Thanks, Charles. I thought it was an early rotary belching out that smoke and cutting on and off. I never saw one before operational. Just read about them.
Charles Howell aa:
The lack of brakes makes it hard too.
So if there was no problem with the engine why did it lose power and cause the ground loop? *winks* yup! you know everything! lol
Hakapik It is called Pilot error.
Flew for a banner towing company very early on in Cubs and a local pilot had a triplane. He was known to let pilots he knew fly it if they had a minimum of iirc 1000 hrs tail dragger time. At no time EVER did I even think of it. Later that summer it lost power and went in inverted into the intercoastal waterway.
JIMJAMSC ; And to think twenty year old youths with 20 odd hours experience were sent to the front to fly these in war conditions. The bravery of youth eh ! Mine went a long while ago.
Aaww, Man..!! Too bad! What a shame!!
No wonder airports were big open fields back in the day. Hard to keep that thing straight.
Rotec engine failure?
don't get too excited it looks repairable to me
Before he started to roll on take off the engine sounded like it wasn't firing on all cylinders. Pilot tried to warm it up and clear it out but it took a crap mid take off.
It is either "on" or "off".
there is no throttle control....
revving up is done by leaving the ignition "on" full time...and the engine goes to full power.
Hitting the "kill" button kills the ignition so you let the revs fall to almost nothing...
then let the button go.."blipping" the engine to keep it alive..but at less than full power...
To see the whole engine see the Omaka Aerodrome rotary engine (new production with modern materials)
and an electronic ignition allowing "half throttle" operation...
electronic blipping so the engine runs at half throttle.... smoothly....
Amazing job those wing walkers do. They practical ran the length of the strip.
Yes!! I would do that in a heartbeat for a fellow pilot!! Am in good shape for my 72 yrs age!! Would be great cardiovascular exercise, too!!
Well, the pilot gave the audience a show, just not necessarily the one they intended...
..Correct, I think. .
Yikes! Didn't they put wheel brakes on those old planes? Looks like nasty to control once the tail wheel lifts up off the ground but before you have enough airspeed to get the rudder to act...
Poly Hexamethyl no
Ambulance in the foreground anticipates this well. What do they expect from this tricycle. Luckily this ambulance action is not needed.
I did not know they made a two stroke motor that big
In New Zealand they have developed an electronic ignition system that allows this rotary engine to operate on half throttle...instead of just "on" or "off"...
works well for a relaxed cruise at altitude....
and for a more relaxed taxiying on the ground.
Attempting to take off with an engine running that rough is PILOT ERROR!
the engine has no throttle just on or off
It doesn't too good mechanical wise. Those brave young men and their flying machines
They're famous for their love of right turns.
This paint scheme looks like that used by Flt Lt MacGregor of 10 Naval Squadron, Teteham. Late 1917. it should have some red and white also on the top decking behind the pilot.
That's exactly what the announcer said.
@@Laodell Wow!! You gents, announcer too, are ahead of that power curve! Great!
That engine... wow - no throttle. Talk about taking your life in your hands flying that contraption 😳
sounds like a vespa
The Fokker Triplane had an all-moving fin. Can't help wondering whether that would have helped here!
The Triplanes also had a weak wing-structure, not the first Fokker designs to have fatal structural shortcomings.
These aircraft have no wheel brakes so you can only steer with the rudder which only gives directional control while the engine is moving air over the rudder. Half way through the take off run he cut the power so he lost directional control.
We come a long way in 100 years.
Yes, we certainly have!
OOPS! Full or idle power they were the two choices with the Camel. Speed/power were controlled by switching the mag on and off known as "Blipping". It's a pig to control but a wonderful aircraft once it's idiosyncrasies are mastered.
adding facts to the comments here is wishful thinking :)
When he cut power, there was no way to keep the plane going straight. And no brakes didn't help either.
what power???
Aahh, forgot about that!! No brakes on those old biplanes!! Didn't realize!
@@jamesbehrje4279 Exactly my sentiments!
The British plane rejects the American pilot
Even Snoopy was disappointed.
thats a sick sounding engine!
No engine problem I agree but its the Pilot in command who clearly has a problem
Pilot error only in the sense that he should not have agreed to a fast taxi/no take off demonstration in the 1st place. This plane/engine combination can't do it.
Sorry Snoopy, the Red Baron wins this round!
JJ CALE
..And Snoopy didn't even get airborne!!##
Hi Snoopy....well done....oh shit !