I do think cele is a bit of a problem, but i also think if it didn't exist, then everyone would just play 1 shot builds and we'd go from fights lasting several minutes, to fights lasting less than 5 seconds 3:
Look at pvp, they removed most defensive stat amulets and then nuked the damage from orbit in 2020. People still complain about sustain and damage to this day. While anets buffs then nerfs builds haphazardly. Plus anyone can easily recreate cele in wvw by just mixing various stats if they removed it.
@@nateking510 Creating your own makeshift cele stats wouldn't work at all, Cele stats offer almost twice the amount of stats compared to all other stat combinations. For example a Cele 2h wep = 1,062 total stats A berserker 2h weapon is only 581 total stats
I know people like to reduce the issue to the total amount of stats. But most builds don't utilize all of them. For example, Cele Ele (fire weaver) is a condi build and barely benefits from the power, precision, ferocity stats. Most roaming cele builds are condi. I can easily mix stats to make a tanky condi build with sustain, and have greater numbers in the stats that actually matter.
@@nateking510 That's the point, right now you either run full zerker or cele, there's not alot of builds that benefit from running anything else, and the only time zerker will wins out is if you're going full one shot, which isn't as viable atm due to all the cele roamers. Also you can't make a better tanky condi build than cele, You would either be slightly tankier than cele, or do slightly more damage, but either way it wouldn't be worth it 3:
@@NQQTNQQT Most condi build would benefit from running trailblazers, since they don't need the power stats from cele. When HoT came out it was the meta and people complained just like now. Zerker stats aren't even that great for solo roaming unless your above average since you often will be 1vx. Mixing in any defense stats would probably help the average roamer. Of course zerker would do better for one shot builds as the stats are pure glass canon. Back in the day, zerker one shot builds could kill most people and people complained until they were nerfed. You can make a better condi build than pure cele but people just go with what is easier. Not having to think about stats and just equipping full cele is easier so people will do it. The problem has more to do with the elite specs using cele than the stats themselves. Willbender was buffed after release. Harbinger is just silly. Catalyst was pushed to be good then nerfed.
As someone who uses cele and has extensive knowledge of it's strengths... Yeah it's a problem and I would like to see the devs at least take a good look at it and figure out if it is really health for the game but i think the same about Trailblazers.
is it just celestial, or is generally tankyness at least wierd in wvw? or to ask a wierd question directly: would you have had more fun against nomad or ministral?
The issue is toughness, but here's a fun fact, i bet you didn't know each armor class has a defense stat too, which makes no sense to me. The reason i say it makes no sense because a light armor class such as ele can be just as tanky as a heavy armored class. Their math is off when it comes to these stats. GW2 is the only game OR MMORPG I've ever played where a light armor class is the hardest thing to defeat in terms of health and survival. those specs typically hit hard or have good support but are easily defeated. I.E Mages . Mages in this game are just hard to defeat especially when they're in support roles.
Hey Hadi. Great stuff; doing a public service by stemming the Harbinger/Cele plague. I went and checked your twitch pages for the builds; I don’t believe the gw2skills links list relics. Which one do you use on the condi build? Thank you!
That condi build (similar version to what I run) is the only thing i'll play on warrior in wvw outside of a zerg. power builds [for me] on warrior are just ineffective for about the past year and a half.
Yeah I noticed the same and projectile block now is nuts. I've had to turn my power SB into a condi hybrid. I respect people that are still full berserker
The unyielding dragon change was actually up there with one of the most stupidly executed changes Ive seen in the 11 years Ive been playing this. Its understandable to an extent, unavoidable damage and a stun is a bit toxic to the game from a PVP perspective but they gave Warrior nothing to compensate, also put a delay on dragon slash boost boost because???. Warrior is so behind comparatively compared to other professions, you gotta work twice as hard to get mediocre results compared to everyone else. Shows how much the rest of the Warrior kit is lacking nowadays, all the cool stuff has been stripped away over the years and was never given back, they got rid of so much and leave things that need to be fixed unaddressed, Old Arc Divider gone, Gunflame gutted, Power weapons being a total joke as a whole now, No Damage on CC (though not Warrior specific it did effect Warrior the most), being shackled to Discipline because Fast Hands + Burst Mastery..having Fast hands dominates Warriors identity it is the way to play, but they wont make it baseline. Hammer being a CC 1trick , offhand power weapons suck, I could go on and on.
add in daring dragon rework now giving alac instead of giving you multiple dragon slashes. Anet hates warrior because if warrior is fun it over shadows their golden child guardian.
Cele should never have received that buff to concentration and expertise . That change made it a default choice for so many builds. The entire stat set needs a 20% nerf to its points. Minimum.
People will cry if it’s just removed because they will whine they spent money crafting etc. easiest thing is to nerf the total amount of points each piece gives so that it’s an ok set just not god mode anymore .
This is why i quit Gw2. Celestial, class imbalance or other things, you name it. Power creep ruining this game. Show me another mmorpgs that you can be a burst dps, sustained dps, tank and a mobility god at the same time. You can't.
It's also snnoying thst there's no nuance whatsoever - a person can run a full glass cannon build with enough active anti CC/Burst to frequently nullify most assaults while still being able to hit two or three times as hard as another build that's intended to do damage in the same way.
Ehh I mean its a wvw roaming fight, which is where cele is at its best. It doesnt perform as well in other formats, i dont think its a problem. Just ignore roamers if youd rather zerg in wvw.
Even if your point has some validity, this video is so disappointing to watch. I've watched you play, and you clearly took your time with this harb. Every single time you were on the advantage, you disengaged. You dragged this out just to exaggerate your point. It feels dishonest
Dragged it out how? After i saw i wasn't doing dmg in two rotations I came back on a condition build to show how silly the stats are . You have to be careful Fighting harb, they literally have two buttons that apply insane amounts of conditions without any effort or risk/ reward, plus he chased me mind you. the object of the game is to win. I don't make people chase me... they do that on their own.
@@hadi9127I understood your difficulty when you went in on your power build. But at 2mins in, you pop berserk and do nothing with it for a whole 15 seconds as he stands idle and auto attacks you. You headbutt him later on, disengage, then throw out a random torch 4 then 5 then 4 into the ether. A similar interaction happens again after you lose the group chasing you. If there's something I'm missing, I apologize. But it just seems like you could have ended this fight about 5 different times
Being a roamer you have to be careful, I'm taking my time because i'm always getting +1 , there isn't a time limit to fights. I play carefully on purpose, 1 because i'm trying to see what skills the other person is using or has already used, 2 so i dont get jumped when i almost down the guy and have no skills to move away when people DO choose to come, which they did lmao. And he still chased me. I'm using the sword movement so i can avoid his attacks without expending any of my utilities. there's a strategy to this, you may have just missed it. Usually when people OOC ( acronym for out of combat) , when your health speeds back up to full, thats when i consider it kinda cheese, but at the end of the day, its in the game. It's cheap , from a moral standpoint but its not against the rules of the game lmao. Otherwise if it was you'd be infinitely in combat like PvP is once the match starts.
Everything you're saying is correct in theory. But Im watching the same video. You're almost spamming your utilities for mobility off cd. Your mobility isn't what I'm referring to though. You're posting this video to argue that celes is causing fights to take a millennium. But in the video I'd argue that both of you are playing as passively as possible. I'm not even saying you're wrong on anything. This video just does a poor job of displaying your point. And maybe that's just me lol
Are you just complaining that raw footage doesn't look like a montage all the time? Oh no Hadi didn't play perfectly, he must have an agenda.... wut? You have to kite a harb bro, not sure if you knew that...
![ช่วยพาฉันผ่านเวลา - วสันต์17 [Official MV]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/HFnntWoqc54/mqdefault.jpg)
I miss pre-HoT PvP. Might not have been perfect but at least it was fun to play against most stuff.
I do think cele is a bit of a problem, but i also think if it didn't exist, then everyone would just play 1 shot builds and we'd go from fights lasting several minutes, to fights lasting less than 5 seconds 3:
Look at pvp, they removed most defensive stat amulets and then nuked the damage from orbit in 2020. People still complain about sustain and damage to this day. While anets buffs then nerfs builds haphazardly.
Plus anyone can easily recreate cele in wvw by just mixing various stats if they removed it.
@@nateking510 Creating your own makeshift cele stats wouldn't work at all, Cele stats offer almost twice the amount of stats compared to all other stat combinations.
For example a Cele 2h wep = 1,062 total stats
A berserker 2h weapon is only 581 total stats
I know people like to reduce the issue to the total amount of stats. But most builds don't utilize all of them. For example, Cele Ele (fire weaver) is a condi build and barely benefits from the power, precision, ferocity stats. Most roaming cele builds are condi. I can easily mix stats to make a tanky condi build with sustain, and have greater numbers in the stats that actually matter.
@@nateking510 That's the point, right now you either run full zerker or cele, there's not alot of builds that benefit from running anything else, and the only time zerker will wins out is if you're going full one shot, which isn't as viable atm due to all the cele roamers.
Also you can't make a better tanky condi build than cele, You would either be slightly tankier than cele, or do slightly more damage, but either way it wouldn't be worth it 3:
@@NQQTNQQT Most condi build would benefit from running trailblazers, since they don't need the power stats from cele. When HoT came out it was the meta and people complained just like now. Zerker stats aren't even that great for solo roaming unless your above average since you often will be 1vx. Mixing in any defense stats would probably help the average roamer. Of course zerker would do better for one shot builds as the stats are pure glass canon. Back in the day, zerker one shot builds could kill most people and people complained until they were nerfed.
You can make a better condi build than pure cele but people just go with what is easier. Not having to think about stats and just equipping full cele is easier so people will do it. The problem has more to do with the elite specs using cele than the stats themselves. Willbender was buffed after release. Harbinger is just silly. Catalyst was pushed to be good then nerfed.
so if warrior doesnt beat any cele fast means cele is broken?
oh they shouldn't have buffed death magic either
As someone who uses cele and has extensive knowledge of it's strengths... Yeah it's a problem and I would like to see the devs at least take a good look at it and figure out if it is really health for the game but i think the same about Trailblazers.
is it just celestial, or is generally tankyness at least wierd in wvw?
or to ask a wierd question directly:
would you have had more fun against nomad or ministral?
The issue is toughness, but here's a fun fact, i bet you didn't know each armor class has a defense stat too, which makes no sense to me. The reason i say it makes no sense because a light armor class such as ele can be just as tanky as a heavy armored class. Their math is off when it comes to these stats.
GW2 is the only game OR MMORPG I've ever played where a light armor class is the hardest thing to defeat in terms of health and survival. those specs typically hit hard or have good support but are easily defeated. I.E Mages . Mages in this game are just hard to defeat especially when they're in support roles.
Hey Hadi. Great stuff; doing a public service by stemming the Harbinger/Cele plague. I went and checked your twitch pages for the builds; I don’t believe the gw2skills links list relics. Which one do you use on the condi build? Thank you!
sorry yea they're old builds on metabattle, i use relic of demon queen or speed for movement for condition warrior.
@@hadi9127many thanks!
But i think with a different class you could take down that harbinger, like herald or any thief spec.
@1:50, dude be like wth u back? lol
There's another videos posted a little before this one saying "celestial isnt broken you just suck"
Gotta love the timing.
yeah vallun is pure trash
if he barely makes dmg whats the complaint about?
That condi build (similar version to what I run) is the only thing i'll play on warrior in wvw outside of a zerg. power builds [for me] on warrior are just ineffective for about the past year and a half.
i can run all the damage mods , and still cant do enough dmg to beat that silly shit.
Yeah I noticed the same and projectile block now is nuts. I've had to turn my power SB into a condi hybrid. I respect people that are still full berserker
description says it all. play full zerk, play well, they can facetank everything and still kill you. Lovely.
The unyielding dragon change was actually up there with one of the most stupidly executed changes Ive seen in the 11 years Ive been playing this. Its understandable to an extent, unavoidable damage and a stun is a bit toxic to the game from a PVP perspective but they gave Warrior nothing to compensate, also put a delay on dragon slash boost boost because???. Warrior is so behind comparatively compared to other professions, you gotta work twice as hard to get mediocre results compared to everyone else.
Shows how much the rest of the Warrior kit is lacking nowadays, all the cool stuff has been stripped away over the years and was never given back, they got rid of so much and leave things that need to be fixed unaddressed, Old Arc Divider gone, Gunflame gutted, Power weapons being a total joke as a whole now, No Damage on CC (though not Warrior specific it did effect Warrior the most), being shackled to Discipline because Fast Hands + Burst Mastery..having Fast hands dominates Warriors identity it is the way to play, but they wont make it baseline. Hammer being a CC 1trick , offhand power weapons suck, I could go on and on.
add in daring dragon rework now giving alac instead of giving you multiple dragon slashes. Anet hates warrior because if warrior is fun it over shadows their golden child guardian.
Cele should never have received that buff to concentration and expertise . That change made it a default choice for so many builds. The entire stat set needs a 20% nerf to its points. Minimum.
Nice work baiting out those spectral walks on berserker : ) rip bladesworn though
Simple solution would be anet removes celestial from wvw. Poof, problem fixed and every class will chase its own niches again.
People will cry if it’s just removed because they will whine they spent money crafting etc. easiest thing is to nerf the total amount of points each piece gives so that it’s an ok set just not god mode anymore .
Cele is fine. lul
This is why i quit Gw2. Celestial, class imbalance or other things, you name it. Power creep ruining this game. Show me another mmorpgs that you can be a burst dps, sustained dps, tank and a mobility god at the same time. You can't.
I kinda think that's why people play it
I present you \o/ Elder Scrolls Online, the most fckdup pvp balance ever.
It's also snnoying thst there's no nuance whatsoever - a person can run a full glass cannon build with enough active anti CC/Burst to frequently nullify most assaults while still being able to hit two or three times as hard as another build that's intended to do damage in the same way.
@gonwyte8534 If you think there's a better build, why not play that build?
@@FoulPet why embrace the design is a better question
I would like to kill everyone with the same build but with characters like this I have a build for each class, it is the best, that duel was sublime.
Ehh I mean its a wvw roaming fight, which is where cele is at its best. It doesnt perform as well in other formats, i dont think its a problem. Just ignore roamers if youd rather zerg in wvw.
You must not know who i am.
Like many of us.....
jesus could your high school drawn avatar be any larger, good lord
shout out to the artist!
Even if your point has some validity, this video is so disappointing to watch. I've watched you play, and you clearly took your time with this harb. Every single time you were on the advantage, you disengaged. You dragged this out just to exaggerate your point. It feels dishonest
Dragged it out how? After i saw i wasn't doing dmg in two rotations I came back on a condition build to show how silly the stats are . You have to be careful Fighting harb, they literally have two buttons that apply insane amounts of conditions without any effort or risk/ reward, plus he chased me mind you. the object of the game is to win. I don't make people chase me... they do that on their own.
@@hadi9127I understood your difficulty when you went in on your power build. But at 2mins in, you pop berserk and do nothing with it for a whole 15 seconds as he stands idle and auto attacks you. You headbutt him later on, disengage, then throw out a random torch 4 then 5 then 4 into the ether. A similar interaction happens again after you lose the group chasing you.
If there's something I'm missing, I apologize. But it just seems like you could have ended this fight about 5 different times
Being a roamer you have to be careful, I'm taking my time because i'm always getting +1 , there isn't a time limit to fights. I play carefully on purpose, 1 because i'm trying to see what skills the other person is using or has already used, 2 so i dont get jumped when i almost down the guy and have no skills to move away when people DO choose to come, which they did lmao. And he still chased me.
I'm using the sword movement so i can avoid his attacks without expending any of my utilities. there's a strategy to this, you may have just missed it. Usually when people OOC ( acronym for out of combat) , when your health speeds back up to full, thats when i consider it kinda cheese, but at the end of the day, its in the game. It's cheap , from a moral standpoint but its not against the rules of the game lmao. Otherwise if it was you'd be infinitely in combat like PvP is once the match starts.
Everything you're saying is correct in theory. But Im watching the same video. You're almost spamming your utilities for mobility off cd.
Your mobility isn't what I'm referring to though.
You're posting this video to argue that celes is causing fights to take a millennium. But in the video I'd argue that both of you are playing as passively as possible.
I'm not even saying you're wrong on anything. This video just does a poor job of displaying your point. And maybe that's just me lol
Are you just complaining that raw footage doesn't look like a montage all the time? Oh no Hadi didn't play perfectly, he must have an agenda.... wut? You have to kite a harb bro, not sure if you knew that...
OH LOOK GOODY FOR U..Your whopping 4 minute vid EXPOSES A/NETS DIRTIEST DARKEST, MOST HORRID SECRETS OF GAME DESTRUCTION EVER!!!! LOLZ