How does quatum theory effect free will? Aren't we told in scripture that God has appointed time unto man but God isn't subject to mortal time. Why can't we admit we don't understand God's space/time restrictions? How can God bring to pass His purposes if He doesn't KNOW what we will choose? Is foreknowledge causation??? Why????
I agree that everything was on the line and that Jesus could've chosen not to atone for us, but I don't think that it was possible because of His nature. He was perfectly one with God and has a perfect love in the sense that He was always willing to do that for us...and God knew he wouldn't fail. Also I think God does have a perfect foreknowledge. He knew Joseph would have a father named Joseph 2500 years in the future. He knew some of those foreordained prophets might fail but he didn't put them in a position like Joseph Smith's where failing would frustrate his plan.
I'm with Hayden on this one . D&C 93:24 God knows all truth. Truth is things as they were as they are and as they are to come. Just because God already knows what choices I'm going to make, doesn't mean I don't have agency anymore. I don't now yet and because of that, I have free will to decide even though God knows already. I have to learn what choice I'm going to make.
I totally agree with Blake's concept of the ongoing Atonement of Christ. He is involved here and now in helping us becoming at one with Him and the Father.
I love Blake‘s notion of God‘s knowledge. I think it makes a lot of sense if you think about it. Just imagine what it would be like to know every single thing up to this very moment. Every thought every action,every chemical reaction was going on in someone’s body,all variables 100%. Then imagine a being that has tremendous power and ability to act. It’s like the worlds greatest weatherman, but with the ability to actually affect the weather. That’ll give us , as agents, great meaning in everything that we do as people because the future really does depend on us as we go create with God. This also sits nicely with the idea that we will eventually fulfill define potential if we choose to abide in certain principles. This also makes God even more impressive because he accomplishes his designs in spite of not being 100% in control of others choices and actions. The fact that he makes plan A,B.C…….. is absolutely incredible. Makes life exciting and full of significance.
Great convo. I’m personally in Hayden’s camp. I wrote my final college philosophy paper on this topic and concludes that God knows perfectly what we will do but that our free will is still free (unrestricted) because we are acting according to our desires, even if our choice is ultimately knowable. Seemingly rare instance where I disagreed with Blake.
I'm only 13 minutes into the video and it hasn't been brought up (yet), but what are your thoughts on a splintered reality model, or butterfly effect? In other words, God knows that if we choose option A we'll have outcome UVW, but if we choose option B we'll have outcome XYZ, and each of those could be further splintered based on our choices but that God sees them all; but we get to choose.
@@DannyAGray This view is referred to as "middle knowledge" or Molinism. Unfortunately, middle knowledge is not compatible with free will either. It seems to make counterfactuals definite rather than probabilistic. It begs the question: how can God foreknow the future state of affairs that don't even exist? How would He know what He knows then? It seems to be a spurious position.
I'm with Hayden on this one. I think God knows the consequences of agency and knows the beginning to the end. Apostles have stated that God has an advantage of his view of time. Agency is omnipresent, but does God have total control over the "time-line"? Or is he just a manager? I know some who believe that God is just a manager and they believe so based on a single sentence from the king Follett sermon. I don't think that, I think it minimizes Gods role, and our potential to change.
I agree. I also believe in large part our understanding of agency is also fraud and misunderstood. Elder Bednar explains it well here. At the 52:40 mark th-cam.com/video/P96APKw1EfQ/w-d-xo.html
The denial before the crows, as you could imagine, is sort of a relevant aspect to all of this for me. I agree, more or less, that it wasn’t so much a prediction as it was a warning, and in a certain view, a test from Master to student. It would take a deep understanding and would be a complex undertaking in real-time to realize some of the Master’s teachings in order to save one’s life. To follow after Christ is to learn to deny oneself and lose oneself, but to the Degree which Christ understands. In order to deny the knowledge, existence, and/or relation to one of his best friends, his Master and his Savior it would take an understanding and enacting of these teachings. Christ is forgetting himself in order to complete the full task of the atonement for all of us. To take up the cross is another way to say “take[receive, absorb, choose] my yoke upon you”. To live, Peter must lose his Self, as Christ would, in order to save his life; all of our lives. What if he had not the Will to understand this denial of self in this way without the existential struggle of maintaining his integrity, his integral virtue to the message and the cause? It may have been detrimental to our timeline. In fact, the structure the council of the Gods set forth sort of demands that this comes to fruition, otherwise we would have been whisked away in an instant and the plan would have fallen. (Hayden presents this idea around 50:00) This is applicable in Nephi’s example that Hayden provided at 26:00 and necessitates that we include “one eternal round” ideas, and “the lords way and time”; which is just different ways of discussing karma. Once what you do/have done has been laid/set down, time, for the time being, is set until the consequential link of past doings “[comes] to pass” as the saying goes. Once it comes to pass a new path is set forth, but from which point is not always defined, and neither is the journey to the destination. So it is not that the Nephites couldn’t have done any different to avoid their demise but rather the exact path down to each individual is not entirely deterministically set forth. Sort of the prognostication discussed. In this sense I mostly agree with Blake’s assessment; I’d probably be a blend of open, closed and process theism in this regard. What Hayden gets into, that there has to be something to do with Time, is correct, and Blake got into it as well. It is not that God is outside of time but cyclical/relative self-perspective time. If there is time there must need be no-time or the time-less. Time is a crooked bow. Time is memory. Memory is you. Lose yourself, following Christ, and the perspective view will expand like unto god who has expanded in and unto all things. These perspectives are the nature of “estates” or “dimensions” or “degrees of glory”. A plan with contingencies sounds a lot like dealing with the process of a probable prognosis. 52:25 - Atonement, to be at one, unified, to have his yoke/yoga upon you. This is a way of life, not a moment. It is to always remember him. If life were only moments you’d never know you had one. The “falling away” “choosing to go against” “better to have never been born” speak are fringe strands on the moiré that only hinder the full view. 56:30 - I hate to make one of these terrible pop-culture comparisons, but, well, here I go. Perhaps it is not necessarily that Joseph was foreordained to be the one, but like Harry Potter and Neville Longbottom, Harry chose, in many different ways, to take up the main task at hand. Perhaps whomever it is that wrote View of the Hebrews, or someone else preaching in those days like my Pagan Prophet great relative who helped build the Nauvoo House could have brought forth the last dispensation. The unfolding of the dispensation was set into time already, but how and who exactly would make the choices leading them to being the Revelator to unfold it, that was yet to be determined-until it came to pass… 1:01:00 - Intriguing question that I know many others would be interested to hear discussed more. Some of this can be applied back to my mention of “estates, dimensions, and degrees of glory.” Finish up that consciousness stuff, Blake. I want to hear more.
God knows everything, He is all powerful. He chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love he predestined us for adoption to himself as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will Ephesians 1:4-5 Predestination means a believer's salvation is eternal and sovereign, we need to surrender to it. Never underestimate Gods power.
I think we all should read “all these things shall give thee experience” by Elder Neal A Maxwell. The whole book is about the Omnipotence, Omniloving, and Omniscience of God
I've always questioned how knowable the future is in light of agency. I also believe that the 1st presidency and apostles aren't infallible. I also believe that if the general authorities of the church make a statement that doesn't seem to square with my ideas of reason and logic, I ought to first try to understand the discrepancy by questioning myself. What might I be missing? What am I to learn from this message from the brethren. It has proven to be a slippery slope to assume that the leadership made a mistake. I don't want to be a victim of my own conceit.
Technology can project a three dimensional image from an almost 2 dimensional film (very thin film or a series of 1s and 0s). Time can be compressed into a single layer where the density of the layer refects the different activity in each "moment" of time. This begs the question, is time discrete or continuous? Digital or analog? I favor digital, and hence compressible with ultra very high resolution. And that is how God sees all at once.
The Smith-Brown example is very closed, and sets up a faulty premise. "You will do this and the result will be..." In reality, the better example is... "If you do this, the result will be..."
The only possibility is the Eternal Now. God knew not only that Blake would mow his lawn but that Blake would also change his mind about mowing his mind. No matter what Blake decides to do, God knows it.
I know from a sacred experience too sacred to share here that God is Sovereign. He is in control and able to do His work, and bring to pass every word of His that passes through the mouth of His chosen servants, the prophets and apostles, and the angels that bear His word to the children of men. Though none of the people in this conversation intend to do so, some of the concepts they advocate for could be interpreted in a way that seems to limit or reduce God's Sovereignty or His ability to keep His promises (most notably and most importantly to us right now, the Restoration of Israel). I *know* that is incorrect and God is NOT limited in any way in regard to His ability to (a) bring to pass what has been prophesied EXACTLY as has been foretold, (b) perform His saving work upon all His children who are willing to receive it, and (c) fulfill every promise He has made to anyone, anywhere, anywhen, unto the last jot and tittle. I testify with all the solemnity of my soul that in that final day, when we are able to see the full scope and grandeur of God's work among His children upon this sphere, we will weep with joy and shout praise to our God and King, and confess that not only is God's work more beautiful and more glorious than we imagined it to be, it is more beautiful and glorious than we were CAPABLE of imagining. Is this because it's open, closed, or process theism? I look forward to having a greater understanding of these concepts, but I do feel these questions sort of fall away into unimportance when we have an encounter with the glory and majesty of God and His works.
Joseph Smith failed to get the gold plates 3 times because he didn't follow instructions. God told Joseph that if he failed again another would be chosen to take his place. If God knew what Joseph would do why have a backup plan. God gaveing Joseph this warning to convince him to do the right thing would be unnecessary if God knew what Joseph would do. Joseph failed 3 times because he exercised his agency instead of obedience. The answer to the question is God knows what what will play out cosmically because he prepared it to play out that way. As for individual people God knows us and can predict our behavior. God knew 100% that Jesus would follow through as the savior because he knows him. But as for Joseph Smith God knew Joseph was highly likely to follow through as the prophet of the restoration but it would be difficult for him. That's why he had another in mind to take Josephs place if necessary. God can predict the outcome of all our choices add plan accordingly.
Or does God not know the future? Or does he know all possible outcomes and we choose? Which would seem to be the same as existing outside of time... Or does he generally know the future in the sense that he knows our nature perfectly and there is nothing we could do that would surprise us?
In my opinion, the game of Go is a better analogy than the game of Chess. There are 10^170 possible positions in Go, that's more positions than there are atoms in the known universe. Professional Go players can read 100 moves ahead and find the best sequence for both players. Similarly, I believe, God is the ultimate Go player. It's not that he 'knows' the future, it's that he can 'read' all the possible moves/variations. He can then play accordingly to accomplish his plans. He sees the end from the beginning (Isaiah 46:10).
God lives outside of the timeframe we recognize for our moral existence. If he didn't, that would mean that he was spontaneously created and instantly had perfect self and knowledge and, without foresight, knew how to create everything. It also means that when he ends the world, he ends too
Some thoughts... Consider that nothing exists unless it is all there. A puzzle is not a puzzle if a piece is missing. It cannot be made sense of or given sensibility... looking at things from the point of view of time. Time is a part of now... and in "now" everything equals everything. We also have to consider changing our definition of agency. All things are created NOW. All agency is NOW. Agency is choosing God... and everything chooses God (fulness) or it does not exist (which is impossible)... even the "temporary rebellion" is choosing God--knowing good and evil... and is followed by repentance--EVERY knee will bow--Christ save ALL the works of the Father. Christ creates ALL things... and without Him WAS (NOW) not anything made that was made--I AM that I AM... which must be the name of all of us too as Joint Heirs with Christ of all that the Father hath. The Atonement is the Source of creation as Lehi tells us (2 Ne 2). We have all existed from Eternity to Eternity... in the Divine Priesthood order and structure of One Eternal Now. We perceive within NOW in two possible ways--time linear... and Eternal Now... but time linear is part of Eternal NOW. God is God because He knows all thing (which is the Source of His Power)... but so do all of us. God cannot allow sin (darkness or not knowing) with the least degree of allowance for Himself or any of us or we would cease to exist. NOW also includes NOT KNOWING ALL THING (God as man is) or God does not know all things. Man must also be GOD or he does not exist. Ultimately we are as the drops of water in the Ocean of existence. Each drop knows all things, has always existed, and is the Ocean. Line upon line Perhaps the veil is simply a firewall that is time released. Like the lines of code in the fabric of existence--all things. Line upon line--in accordance with our obedience--the Holy Ghost brings all things to our remembrance... unveiling... all the revelations of Christ--"But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you" (our "line upon line" remembering of ALL things... that have been temporarily blocked that we might experience darkness and knowledge of good and evil. Perhaps this is even part of our covenant to... "always remember Him."). Again, "time" and "Eternity" fused together as ONE great whole. Agency is not violated. It is simply part of the whole our veiled experience. Choosing is included in the whole. Knowing all things is included in the whole. Darkness is included and Light is included in the whole--or their is no existence beyond a compound in one, or thing of naught, or vanishing away. One Eternal Now... and... he (Jehovah) ordered all things according to the council of his own will... Joseph Smith tells us: "The great Jehovah contemplated the whole of the events connected with the earth, pertaining to the plan of salvation, before it rolled into existence, or ever the “morning stars sung together for joy,” the past, the present and the future, were, and are with him one eternal now; he knew of the fall of Adam, the iniquities of the antedeluvians, of the depth of iniquity that would be connected with the human family; their weakness and strength, their power and glory, apostasies, their crimes, their righteousness, and iniquity; he comqrehended the fall of man, and their redemption; he knew the plan of salvation, and pointed it out; he was acquainted with the situation of all nations; and with their destiny; he ordered all things according to the council of his own will, he knows the situation of both the living, and the dead, and has made ample provision for their redemption, according to their several circumstances, and the laws of the kingdom of God, whether in this world, or in the world to come." It struck me one day that perhaps 3 Nephi 27: 26 is not saying that Father writes "only" the things that "happen"... that we are then judged by... but rather that ALL THINGS (all existence) are written by the Father... 26 "And behold, all things are written by the Father; therefore out of the books which shall be written shall the world be judged." It seems to me that the Atonement requires "...God knowing all things, being from everlasting to everlasting..." - Moroni 7: 22. Consider also the Lord's words delivered through His servant, Dallin H. Oaks, April 2022... "The revealed doctrine of the restored Church of Jesus Christ teaches that all the children of God-with exceptions too limited to consider here-will finally wind up in a kingdom of glory." He does not define which kingdom (I am beginning to consider that there will be only Exaltation when all is said and done)... and he does not say the much simpler... "with the exception of those who commit the unpardonable sin." Then, in Oct 2022... Elder Bednar goes out of his way to tell us that "All... the good and the bad... are gathered as guests of the marriage and clothed by the King Himself... and that the rebellious ONE cannot be a person (because ALL persons, good and bad, are clothed by the King (healed, saved, endowed... and prepared to bow the knee in utter love and loyalty--the greatest manifestations of the Savior's power that the world has ever seen)... leaving DARKNESS itself to be the only possible definition of the rebellious ONE. Darkness (or not knowing all things)... which is speechless... is the only thing that cannot be clothed by the King in righteousness... and is therefore banished to outer darkness. But... darkness is part of knowing all things. So... our definition of outer darkness must change to darkness being swallowed up in the Light. It is a function of the "temporary???" dimming of the Light. We are taught this in the Temple figuratively with clothing that is Light and dark (actually the color of life)... all of which is retained... and finished (or all tied together as ONE great whole) with Christ's bow... like a perfect Christmas Present.
It appears to me that God "releases" certain spirit beings into mortality at certain points in History, according to His will, for the progression of all. And that He often releases similar at the roughly the same time. A somewhat secular example is Isaac Newtion and Leibniz, who both discovered calculus at about the same time, working separately. A religious example is Joseph Smith and Ellen White, the founder of Adventism. They both came to Earth at about the same time, with pioneering spiritual ideas, and both churches have grown to similar sizes.
And there's the will of the people in the earth and those about to come. They have agency to accept their calls, their roles, their jobs on earth as well. I believe there are organizations before this life, reacting to the mistakes and successes of us down below
[Leibniz's contingency argument for God, clarified] Exhibit A: Ten whole, rational numbers 0-9 and their geometric counterparts 0D-9D. 0 and it's geometric counterpart 0D are: 1) whole 2) rational 3) not-natural (not-physical) 4) necessary 1-9 and their geometric counterparts 1D-9D are: 1) whole 2) rational 3) natural (physical) 4) contingent Newton says since 0 and 0D are "not-natural" ✅ then they are also "not-necessary" 🚫. Newton also says since 1-9 and 1D-9D are "natural" ✅ then they are also "necessary" 🚫. This is called "conflating" and is repeated throughout Newton's Calculus/Physics/Geometry/Logic. Leibniz does not make these fundamental mistakes. Leibniz's "Monadology" 📚 is 0 and it's geometric counterpart 0D. The Egyptians, Syrians, Greeks, Mathematicians, Plato (the Good on 0D-3D pyramid) and don't forget Jesus and John all speak of the Monad (number 0, geometry 0D, quantum SNF). 0D Monad (SNF) 1D Line (WNF) 2D Plane (EMF) 3D Volume (GF) We should all be learning Leibniz's Calculus/Physics/Geometry/Logic. Fibonacci sequence starts with 0 for a reason. The Fibonacci triangle is 0, 1, 2 (Not 1, 2, 3). Newton's 1D-4D "natural ✅ = necessary 🚫" universe is a contradiction. Natural does not mean necessary. Similar, yet different. Not-natural just means no spatial extension; zero size; exact location only. Necessary. Newtonian nonsense will never provide a Theory of Everything. Leibniz's Law of Sufficient Reason should be required reading 📚....
Isn't "prognosis" incompatible with the Atonement--which is utterly specific... suggesting perfect knowledge of things... as they were, are, and are to come? I think we have to change our definition of agency. See my... "Some thoughts"... comment below.
Just because we may not understand HOW things are done based on our limited understanding, that's not necessarily a good reason to then look to own human reason while ignoring or explaining away pretty clear scripture. For he knoweth all things, and there is not anything save he knows it. - 2 Nephi 9:20 The same which knoweth all things, for all things are present before mine eyes... - D&C 38:2 ...who is in the bosom of eternity, who is in the midst of all things. - D&C 88:13 But they reside in the presence of God, on a globe like a sea of glass and fire, where all things for their glory are manifest, past, present, and future, and are continually before the Lord. - 130:7 God is much more than simply an excellent guesser because He has been around a long time and has a lot of experience. "A really good weatherman," as Jacob put it.
Scripture suggests an alternative that Jacob hints at. That God goes before us. God does not need to know all eternity in order to go before us, He only needs to be a lifetime ahead of us. And since we live in God and God lives in us, we "wrote our own book" before coming here to mortality. When we are incarnated we are "put back" in time to the beginning to live out the script that we already wrote. Here are the relevant scriptures from the Bible, as a newer Latter Day Saint, I am not sure if there are similar relevant scriptures elsewhere in the standard works. "The LORD is the one who goes ahead of you; He will be with you He will not fail you or forsake you. Do not fear or be dismayed." Deuteronomy 31:8 'The LORD your God who goes before you will Himself fight on your behalf...Deuteronomy 1:30 You go before me and follow me. You place your hand of blessing on my head. Psalm 139:5 (NLT) For the LORD will go before you, And the God of Israel will be your rear guard. Isaiah 52:12 I will go before you and will level the mountains; I will break down gates of bronze and cut through bars of iron. Isaiah 45:2 To Him who led His people through the wilderness, For His lovingkindness is everlasting; Psalm136:16
That would be interesting, except the Hebrew in almost every case has reference to a physical orientation of an embodied God rather than a temporal orientation of a time-fluid being. It’s an interesting thought, though. The particular word (lihph-ney-khehm as an anglicized version, sometimes YT doesn’t like Hebrew) is also used to denote the face, as in “Which way do you face” or even our physical face with a nose, mouth, eyes, and other features. It also denotes presence, as in the physical presence of the Lord with Israel. I think you’re thinking “before” as in “we’ll meet before 2pm” but that isn’t really the context of the scriptures you cited given the vocabulary used. I guess it could work in a sense like a train engine goes _before_ the caboose into the tunnel, as that would be acceptable here, I think. But even then Blake’s explanation of a co-creative God with respect to reality/the future still fits the scriptures cited, imo.
Knowing what we will choose is not deterministic. It’s evidence of someone who perfectly knows us. I’m struggling to find how Blake believes that God knowing the future means you had no choice
In his example, “if God told you that you will marry so-and-so, you will” is a falsehood. God would know that telling someone that could alter the events. Time travel logic seems to cover this a bit
God does not have foreknowledge. To have foreknowledge means to know something before it happens. God does not foresee the future, he sees the future. Neal A. Maxwell stated, “God does not live in the dimension of time as we do…all things are present with him….In ways that are not clear to us, he sees rather than foresees the future…”. (Things As They Really Are 1978)
Yes, this is definitely how I understand It too. We have agency, yet God knows what we'll do because He's already seen it. It actually has already happened to God. It's not foreknowledge, it's knowledge!
@@ultroniumgalactus7343 God knowing what I will do does not force me to do it. The fact that we look at time as linear and the future as something that hasn't happened yet is a stumbling block to understanding my viewpoint. I view it similar to past events. For example, I know with certainty, what my friend did yesterday, but I did not force him to do it. In a similar way, God knows what we have done and will do, but that doesn't admit any force on His part. Just offering another way to look at it. If that doesn't help, forget about it.
String theory dictates there are up to 11 dimensions. We are currently 4 dimensional beings. Length by width by height by time. The 4th dimension is time in one direction (past to present to future). God’s body could very well be and very likely is a different dimensional being. Blake is assuming that there are only 4 dimensional beings and God is one of them because he got a body and has the same types of constraints with time that we would have. I am not going to go into each of the other dimensions, but if god was a higher dimensional being, he could exist in multiple times at the same time and would be able to see every possible decision that would have ever been able to be made in the multiverse.
Your comment is really just an appeal to ignorance. First, string theory is quite disputed and not well established and has largely been abandoned. But even if we accept it, the remaining dimensions are microscopic and not candidates for such "Flat Land" views of dimensionality. Further, you simply reject the most basic laws of logic -- bivalence and the law of the excluded middle. That is a really high price to pay for such a questionable theory of dimensions.
@@blakeostler8965 I was about to reply that String theory is highly disputed and even discredited by many and then I saw you already replied. Ive read your book and working on the rest Blake. I really wish you were at Education week and FAIR. Listening to you makes me so upset I wasnt born 50 IQ points higher to digest it all much quicker.
I tend to think it was a different world before He presented the plan to us. I tend to think that God gathered us together and said something like, "I have this knowledge and experience, and I want each of you to choose to experience it too." I think this way because I believe that our mutual experience is a type and shadow of eternal things, so I lol at real world situations that relate to heaven. In my mind, God the father was once a young man who ventured out of his own father's house, gained knowledge and experience, settled down to raise a family, and knows through wisdom that our growth requires us to also venture outside the nest just as he did.
Maybe this is easily refuted, but here is how I’ve always seen it. If my son is mad because I am making him eat his dinner before I let him have a cookie, and then I take his dinner away and put a cookie in front of him and say he can eat it, I know he will eat it. He still have his agency, but based on how well I know him, I can know with certainty that he will eat the cookie. Example two: If a person is a master mathematician and a master coder, he is given a series of equations to put into a program, he can look at those equations and know exactly what those equations will do to his program/software. Obviously, we are not equations, but God can know us infinitely and see that every decision we make is as even more clear to hiM than me deducing that my son would eat a cookie placed in front of him. This, compounded with the fact that we are co-eternal with God and not mere creation / code written by him seems to show that he can have perfect foreknowledge of what we will do while still allowing us to maintain our agency.
Maybe it's a butterfly effect model. There are countless outcomes depending on our actions, but God knows all of them and how to guide us through them, but we still get to act. It makes me think of the old Goosebumps Choose Your Own Adventure books.
@@amoreexcellentsaint1270 in not so sure God doesn't know what we are going to do. I know we have agency, but that doesn't mean he doesn't know us well enough to know. For example, I can very easily predict things that my 19 year-old son will do when situations arise. I frequently make these predictions out to my wife and lay out consequences and scenarios of how it ends up. I regret that I'm almost always right that he chooses difficult paths, but I know him well enough to know his pride, and we spend the time before he makes those choices trying to warn him. I know him because of all the time I spent with him before he moved out, and the actions he still takes. I think God - being a loving and wise God - knows us perfectly and can predict our actions and make plans and contingency plans ahead of time just in case, for every scenario. Additionally, God can adjust our path back to him based on every action we take, not just the big ones but the minute ones too.
What if you son has eaten 400 cookies? Will he still eat the next cookie? I suggest that you really just don't don't know. And you certainly don't know in any infallible sense in the way that God does.
I am THEIST which means..... (Theist - a person who believes in the existence of a god or gods, specifically of a creator who intervenes in the universe. ALL RELIGIONS) > I am definitely human, but I have a very early version of the human brain (I actually believe that there is an invisible flying wizard in the sky). > I have to pray for things because I am not capable of achieving anything myself. > I am not capable of making a decision on my own - God makes my decisions for me. > I am not capable of taking responsibility - God takes responsibility for me. If I Fxxx up, it's Gods fault, never my fault! > I am not capable of understanding Science. But my God says it don't matter cos God knows all the answers. (Ok, he was wrong about the witches, but we Theists only slaughtered a few hundred thousand before we stopped...) > I am 100% arrogant about what I know, even though 6.5 BILLION people say I'm wrong. I speak with God (don't you know), of course I'm always right. > I am ridiculously ignorant of the things I do not know. That's because there is nothing I and God don't know. > Knowing I have God on my side means I am better than you. > My God, out of the 30,000+ Gods is the ONLY GOD. I know this because I am Theist and I am right. "THEIST" = "THE" "1ST" in BULLSHIT (First in Arrogance and First in Ignorance as well!)
To add more scripture to my comment below, I quickly found these additional references from the Book of Mormon. And, as I continue to listen now, y'all are using the word "character". The common use of that work also bolsters this theory. Because each of us both has a character, and are a character. We are a character, and of a character, that we ourselves, as gods on the other side of the veil, created for ourselves, with free agency. We then came into mortality to live out "the me" that we each created for ourselves. Ether 2:5 And it came to pass that the Lord commanded them that they should ago forth into the wilderness, yea, into that quarter where there never had man been. And it came to pass that the Lord did go before them, and did talk with them as he stood in a bcloud, and gave cdirections whither they should travel. 3 Nephi 20:42 For ye shall anot go out with bhaste nor go by flight; for the Lord will go before you, and the God of Israel shall be your rearward. 1 Nephi 17:13 And I will also be your alight in the wilderness; and I will prepare the way before you, if it so be that ye shall keep my commandments; wherefore, inasmuch as ye shall keep my commandments ye shall be led towards the bpromised land; and ye shall cknow that it is by me that ye are led.
It’s easy because we are ALL playing eternal baseball… we all make it to the celestial kingdom .. we are resurrected when we are ready for the celestial kingdom .. thats why there are 5 resurrections !!!
I like Blake's ideas but sometimes he has flawed logic. The likelihood that we simply cannot understand many of these things aside, he often makes assumptions that he takes as far. For instance ce. God cannot live outside of time because he has a body. Says who? This is only an assumption. God can't definitely know the future? So he's NOT all knowing? The future is a thing that he doesn't know?
Blake has a lot of imagination, but he's overly pedantic and lacks imagination at other times. The book example is an analogy, not a perfect parallel. God dwells in higher dimensions. All Time is present before Him, just like height, width and breadth are ever present before us. Sort of like the construct in Interstellar. Blake is too smart for his own good and overthinks some things.
Joseph Smith didnt believe in Creeds for this reason. He found them too restricting . Blake and Jacob believe in the core doctrines but understand theres SOOOOOO much more.
I'm grateful Blake has done the work. And remains humble, thoughtful and willing to share!
Jacob, your channel has been a great help for me during a challenging time. I always look forward to listening to your videos.
How does quatum theory effect free will? Aren't we told in scripture that God has appointed time unto man but God isn't subject to mortal time. Why can't we admit we don't understand God's space/time restrictions? How can God bring to pass His purposes if He doesn't KNOW what we will choose? Is foreknowledge causation??? Why????
I agree that everything was on the line and that Jesus could've chosen not to atone for us, but I don't think that it was possible because of His nature. He was perfectly one with God and has a perfect love in the sense that He was always willing to do that for us...and God knew he wouldn't fail. Also I think God does have a perfect foreknowledge. He knew Joseph would have a father named Joseph 2500 years in the future. He knew some of those foreordained prophets might fail but he didn't put them in a position like Joseph Smith's where failing would frustrate his plan.
I'm with Hayden on this one . D&C 93:24 God knows all truth. Truth is things as they were as they are and as they are to come. Just because God already knows what choices I'm going to make, doesn't mean I don't have agency anymore. I don't now yet and because of that, I have free will to decide even though God knows already. I have to learn what choice I'm going to make.
I totally agree with Blake's concept of the ongoing Atonement of Christ. He is involved here and now in helping us becoming at one with Him and the Father.
I love Blake‘s notion of God‘s knowledge. I think it makes a lot of sense if you think about it. Just imagine what it would be like to know every single thing up to this very moment. Every thought every action,every chemical reaction was going on in someone’s body,all variables 100%. Then imagine a being that has tremendous power and ability to act. It’s like the worlds greatest weatherman, but with the ability to actually affect the weather. That’ll give us , as agents, great meaning in everything that we do as people because the future really does depend on us as we go create with God. This also sits nicely with the idea that we will eventually fulfill define potential if we choose to abide in certain principles. This also makes God even more impressive because he accomplishes his designs in spite of not being 100% in control of others choices and actions. The fact that he makes plan A,B.C…….. is absolutely incredible. Makes life exciting and full of significance.
Great convo. I’m personally in Hayden’s camp. I wrote my final college philosophy paper on this topic and concludes that God knows perfectly what we will do but that our free will is still free (unrestricted) because we are acting according to our desires, even if our choice is ultimately knowable. Seemingly rare instance where I disagreed with Blake.
I'm only 13 minutes into the video and it hasn't been brought up (yet), but what are your thoughts on a splintered reality model, or butterfly effect? In other words, God knows that if we choose option A we'll have outcome UVW, but if we choose option B we'll have outcome XYZ, and each of those could be further splintered based on our choices but that God sees them all; but we get to choose.
@@DannyAGray This view is referred to as "middle knowledge" or Molinism. Unfortunately, middle knowledge is not compatible with free will either. It seems to make counterfactuals definite rather than probabilistic. It begs the question: how can God foreknow the future state of affairs that don't even exist? How would He know what He knows then? It seems to be a spurious position.
I'm with Hayden on this one. I think God knows the consequences of agency and knows the beginning to the end. Apostles have stated that God has an advantage of his view of time. Agency is omnipresent, but does God have total control over the "time-line"? Or is he just a manager? I know some who believe that God is just a manager and they believe so based on a single sentence from the king Follett sermon. I don't think that, I think it minimizes Gods role, and our potential to change.
I agree. I also believe in large part our understanding of agency is also fraud and misunderstood. Elder Bednar explains it well here. At the 52:40 mark th-cam.com/video/P96APKw1EfQ/w-d-xo.html
The denial before the crows, as you could imagine, is sort of a relevant aspect to all of this for me.
I agree, more or less, that it wasn’t so much a prediction as it was a warning, and in a certain view, a test from Master to student. It would take a deep understanding and would be a complex undertaking in real-time to realize some of the Master’s teachings in order to save one’s life. To follow after Christ is to learn to deny oneself and lose oneself, but to the Degree which Christ understands. In order to deny the knowledge, existence, and/or relation to one of his best friends, his Master and his Savior it would take an understanding and enacting of these teachings. Christ is forgetting himself in order to complete the full task of the atonement for all of us. To take up the cross is another way to say “take[receive, absorb, choose] my yoke upon you”. To live, Peter must lose his Self, as Christ would, in order to save his life; all of our lives. What if he had not the Will to understand this denial of self in this way without the existential struggle of maintaining his integrity, his integral virtue to the message and the cause? It may have been detrimental to our timeline. In fact, the structure the council of the Gods set forth sort of demands that this comes to fruition, otherwise we would have been whisked away in an instant and the plan would have fallen. (Hayden presents this idea around 50:00)
This is applicable in Nephi’s example that Hayden provided at 26:00 and necessitates that we include “one eternal round” ideas, and “the lords way and time”; which is just different ways of discussing karma. Once what you do/have done has been laid/set down, time, for the time being, is set until the consequential link of past doings “[comes] to pass” as the saying goes. Once it comes to pass a new path is set forth, but from which point is not always defined, and neither is the journey to the destination. So it is not that the Nephites couldn’t have done any different to avoid their demise but rather the exact path down to each individual is not entirely deterministically set forth. Sort of the prognostication discussed. In this sense I mostly agree with Blake’s assessment; I’d probably be a blend of open, closed and process theism in this regard. What Hayden gets into, that there has to be something to do with Time, is correct, and Blake got into it as well. It is not that God is outside of time but cyclical/relative self-perspective time. If there is time there must need be no-time or the time-less. Time is a crooked bow. Time is memory. Memory is you. Lose yourself, following Christ, and the perspective view will expand like unto god who has expanded in and unto all things. These perspectives are the nature of “estates” or “dimensions” or “degrees of glory”.
A plan with contingencies sounds a lot like dealing with the process of a probable prognosis.
52:25 - Atonement, to be at one, unified, to have his yoke/yoga upon you. This is a way of life, not a moment. It is to always remember him. If life were only moments you’d never know you had one.
The “falling away” “choosing to go against” “better to have never been born” speak are fringe strands on the moiré that only hinder the full view.
56:30 - I hate to make one of these terrible pop-culture comparisons, but, well, here I go. Perhaps it is not necessarily that Joseph was foreordained to be the one, but like Harry Potter and Neville Longbottom, Harry chose, in many different ways, to take up the main task at hand. Perhaps whomever it is that wrote View of the Hebrews, or someone else preaching in those days like my Pagan Prophet great relative who helped build the Nauvoo House could have brought forth the last dispensation. The unfolding of the dispensation was set into time already, but how and who exactly would make the choices leading them to being the Revelator to unfold it, that was yet to be determined-until it came to pass…
1:01:00 - Intriguing question that I know many others would be interested to hear discussed more. Some of this can be applied back to my mention of “estates, dimensions, and degrees of glory.”
Finish up that consciousness stuff, Blake. I want to hear more.
God knows everything, He is all powerful. He chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love he predestined us for adoption to himself as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will Ephesians 1:4-5 Predestination means a believer's salvation is eternal and sovereign, we need to surrender to it. Never underestimate Gods power.
I think we all should read “all these things shall give thee experience” by Elder Neal A Maxwell.
The whole book is about the Omnipotence, Omniloving, and Omniscience of God
I've always questioned how knowable the future is in light of agency. I also believe that the 1st presidency and apostles aren't infallible. I also believe that if the general authorities of the church make a statement that doesn't seem to square with my ideas of reason and logic, I ought to first try to understand the discrepancy by questioning myself. What might I be missing? What am I to learn from this message from the brethren. It has proven to be a slippery slope to assume that the leadership made a mistake. I don't want to be a victim of my own conceit.
Technology can project a three dimensional image from an almost 2 dimensional film (very thin film or a series of 1s and 0s). Time can be compressed into a single layer where the density of the layer refects the different activity in each "moment" of time. This begs the question, is time discrete or continuous? Digital or analog? I favor digital, and hence compressible with ultra very high resolution. And that is how God sees all at once.
The Smith-Brown example is very closed, and sets up a faulty premise. "You will do this and the result will be..." In reality, the better example is... "If you do this, the result will be..."
The only possibility is the Eternal Now. God knew not only that Blake would mow his lawn but that Blake would also change his mind about mowing his mind. No matter what Blake decides to do, God knows it.
I know from a sacred experience too sacred to share here that God is Sovereign. He is in control and able to do His work, and bring to pass every word of His that passes through the mouth of His chosen servants, the prophets and apostles, and the angels that bear His word to the children of men. Though none of the people in this conversation intend to do so, some of the concepts they advocate for could be interpreted in a way that seems to limit or reduce God's Sovereignty or His ability to keep His promises (most notably and most importantly to us right now, the Restoration of Israel). I *know* that is incorrect and God is NOT limited in any way in regard to His ability to (a) bring to pass what has been prophesied EXACTLY as has been foretold, (b) perform His saving work upon all His children who are willing to receive it, and (c) fulfill every promise He has made to anyone, anywhere, anywhen, unto the last jot and tittle. I testify with all the solemnity of my soul that in that final day, when we are able to see the full scope and grandeur of God's work among His children upon this sphere, we will weep with joy and shout praise to our God and King, and confess that not only is God's work more beautiful and more glorious than we imagined it to be, it is more beautiful and glorious than we were CAPABLE of imagining. Is this because it's open, closed, or process theism? I look forward to having a greater understanding of these concepts, but I do feel these questions sort of fall away into unimportance when we have an encounter with the glory and majesty of God and His works.
Joseph Smith failed to get the gold plates 3 times because he didn't follow instructions. God told Joseph that if he failed again another would be chosen to take his place. If God knew what Joseph would do why have a backup plan. God gaveing Joseph this warning to convince him to do the right thing would be unnecessary if God knew what Joseph would do. Joseph failed 3 times because he exercised his agency instead of obedience. The answer to the question is God knows what what will play out cosmically because he prepared it to play out that way. As for individual people God knows us and can predict our behavior. God knew 100% that Jesus would follow through as the savior because he knows him. But as for Joseph Smith God knew Joseph was highly likely to follow through as the prophet of the restoration but it would be difficult for him. That's why he had another in mind to take Josephs place if necessary. God can predict the outcome of all our choices add plan accordingly.
Awesome example....and Joseph was the greatest prophet. So naturally there are backup plans all over I would assume
Or does God not know the future?
Or does he know all possible outcomes and we choose? Which would seem to be the same as existing outside of time...
Or does he generally know the future in the sense that he knows our nature perfectly and there is nothing we could do that would surprise us?
In my opinion, the game of Go is a better analogy than the game of Chess. There are 10^170 possible positions in Go, that's more positions than there are atoms in the known universe. Professional Go players can read 100 moves ahead and find the best sequence for both players. Similarly, I believe, God is the ultimate Go player. It's not that he 'knows' the future, it's that he can 'read' all the possible moves/variations. He can then play accordingly to accomplish his plans. He sees the end from the beginning (Isaiah 46:10).
What about a 2nd person narrative book - if this choice then go to page X if this choice then go to page Y?
If God lives within time and space, how did the first cause take place? Or was there a first cause?
God lives outside of the timeframe we recognize for our moral existence. If he didn't, that would mean that he was spontaneously created and instantly had perfect self and knowledge and, without foresight, knew how to create everything. It also means that when he ends the world, he ends too
Some thoughts...
Consider that nothing exists unless it is all there. A puzzle is not a puzzle if a piece is missing. It cannot be made sense of or given sensibility... looking at things from the point of view of time. Time is a part of now... and in "now" everything equals everything. We also have to consider changing our definition of agency. All things are created NOW. All agency is NOW. Agency is choosing God... and everything chooses God (fulness) or it does not exist (which is impossible)... even the "temporary rebellion" is choosing God--knowing good and evil... and is followed by repentance--EVERY knee will bow--Christ save ALL the works of the Father. Christ creates ALL things... and without Him WAS (NOW) not anything made that was made--I AM that I AM... which must be the name of all of us too as Joint Heirs with Christ of all that the Father hath. The Atonement is the Source of creation as Lehi tells us (2 Ne 2). We have all existed from Eternity to Eternity... in the Divine Priesthood order and structure of One Eternal Now. We perceive within NOW in two possible ways--time linear... and Eternal Now... but time linear is part of Eternal NOW. God is God because He knows all thing (which is the Source of His Power)... but so do all of us. God cannot allow sin (darkness or not knowing) with the least degree of allowance for Himself or any of us or we would cease to exist. NOW also includes NOT KNOWING ALL THING (God as man is) or God does not know all things. Man must also be GOD or he does not exist. Ultimately we are as the drops of water in the Ocean of existence. Each drop knows all things, has always existed, and is the Ocean.
Line upon line
Perhaps the veil is simply a firewall that is time released. Like the lines of code in the fabric of existence--all things. Line upon line--in accordance with our obedience--the Holy Ghost brings all things to our remembrance... unveiling... all the revelations of Christ--"But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you" (our "line upon line" remembering of ALL things... that have been temporarily blocked that we might experience darkness and knowledge of good and evil. Perhaps this is even part of our covenant to... "always remember Him."). Again, "time" and "Eternity" fused together as ONE great whole.
Agency is not violated. It is simply part of the whole our veiled experience. Choosing is included in the whole. Knowing all things is included in the whole. Darkness is included and Light is included in the whole--or their is no existence beyond a compound in one, or thing of naught, or vanishing away.
One Eternal Now... and... he (Jehovah) ordered all things according to the council of his own will...
Joseph Smith tells us: "The great Jehovah contemplated the whole of the events connected with the earth, pertaining to the plan of salvation, before it rolled into existence, or ever the “morning stars sung together for joy,” the past, the present and the future, were, and are with him one eternal now; he knew of the fall of Adam, the iniquities of the antedeluvians, of the depth of iniquity that would be connected with the human family; their weakness and strength, their power and glory, apostasies, their crimes, their righteousness, and iniquity; he comqrehended the fall of man, and their redemption; he knew the plan of salvation, and pointed it out; he was acquainted with the situation of all nations; and with their destiny; he ordered all things according to the council of his own will, he knows the situation of both the living, and the dead, and has made ample provision for their redemption, according to their several circumstances, and the laws of the kingdom of God, whether in this world, or in the world to come."
It struck me one day that perhaps 3 Nephi 27: 26 is not saying that Father writes "only" the things that "happen"... that we are then judged by... but rather that ALL THINGS (all existence) are written by the Father... 26 "And behold, all things are written by the Father; therefore out of the books which shall be written shall the world be judged." It seems to me that the Atonement requires "...God knowing all things, being from everlasting to everlasting..." - Moroni 7: 22.
Consider also the Lord's words delivered through His servant, Dallin H. Oaks, April 2022... "The revealed doctrine of the restored Church of Jesus Christ teaches that all the children of God-with exceptions too limited to consider here-will finally wind up in a kingdom of glory." He does not define which kingdom (I am beginning to consider that there will be only Exaltation when all is said and done)... and he does not say the much simpler... "with the exception of those who commit the unpardonable sin."
Then, in Oct 2022... Elder Bednar goes out of his way to tell us that "All... the good and the bad... are gathered as guests of the marriage and clothed by the King Himself... and that the rebellious ONE cannot be a person (because ALL persons, good and bad, are clothed by the King (healed, saved, endowed... and prepared to bow the knee in utter love and loyalty--the greatest manifestations of the Savior's power that the world has ever seen)... leaving DARKNESS itself to be the only possible definition of the rebellious ONE. Darkness (or not knowing all things)... which is speechless... is the only thing that cannot be clothed by the King in righteousness... and is therefore banished to outer darkness. But... darkness is part of knowing all things. So... our definition of outer darkness must change to darkness being swallowed up in the Light. It is a function of the "temporary???" dimming of the Light. We are taught this in the Temple figuratively with clothing that is Light and dark (actually the color of life)... all of which is retained... and finished (or all tied together as ONE great whole) with Christ's bow... like a perfect Christmas Present.
You should check out “idol killer” on TH-cam and have him on the show!
He is open theist
It appears to me that God "releases" certain spirit beings into mortality at certain points in History, according to His will, for the progression of all. And that He often releases similar at the roughly the same time. A somewhat secular example is Isaac Newtion and Leibniz, who both discovered calculus at about the same time, working separately. A religious example is Joseph Smith and Ellen White, the founder of Adventism. They both came to Earth at about the same time, with pioneering spiritual ideas, and both churches have grown to similar sizes.
And there's the will of the people in the earth and those about to come. They have agency to accept their calls, their roles, their jobs on earth as well. I believe there are organizations before this life, reacting to the mistakes and successes of us down below
Possible examples of the need for a second witness?
[Leibniz's contingency argument for God, clarified]
Exhibit A:
Ten whole, rational numbers 0-9 and their geometric counterparts 0D-9D.
0 and it's geometric counterpart 0D are:
1) whole
2) rational
3) not-natural (not-physical)
4) necessary
1-9 and their geometric counterparts 1D-9D are:
1) whole
2) rational
3) natural (physical)
4) contingent
Newton says since 0 and 0D are
"not-natural" ✅
then they are also
"not-necessary" 🚫.
Newton also says since 1-9 and 1D-9D are "natural" ✅
then they are also
"necessary" 🚫.
This is called "conflating" and is repeated throughout Newton's Calculus/Physics/Geometry/Logic.
Leibniz does not make these fundamental mistakes.
Leibniz's "Monadology" 📚 is 0 and it's geometric counterpart 0D.
The Egyptians, Syrians, Greeks, Mathematicians, Plato (the Good on 0D-3D pyramid) and don't forget Jesus and John all speak of the Monad (number 0, geometry 0D, quantum SNF).
0D Monad (SNF)
1D Line (WNF)
2D Plane (EMF)
3D Volume (GF)
We should all be learning Leibniz's Calculus/Physics/Geometry/Logic.
Fibonacci sequence starts with 0 for a reason. The Fibonacci triangle is 0, 1, 2 (Not 1, 2, 3).
Newton's 1D-4D "natural ✅ =
necessary 🚫" universe is a contradiction.
Natural does not mean necessary. Similar, yet different.
Not-natural just means no spatial extension; zero size; exact location only. Necessary.
Newtonian nonsense will never provide a Theory of Everything.
Leibniz's Law of Sufficient Reason should be required reading 📚....
Isn't "prognosis" incompatible with the Atonement--which is utterly specific... suggesting perfect knowledge of things... as they were, are, and are to come? I think we have to change our definition of agency. See my... "Some thoughts"... comment below.
Just because we may not understand HOW things are done based on our limited understanding, that's not necessarily a good reason to then look to own human reason while ignoring or explaining away pretty clear scripture.
For he knoweth all things, and there is not anything save he knows it. - 2 Nephi 9:20
The same which knoweth all things, for all things are present before mine eyes... - D&C 38:2
...who is in the bosom of eternity, who is in the midst of all things. - D&C 88:13
But they reside in the presence of God, on a globe like a sea of glass and fire, where all things for their glory are manifest, past, present, and future, and are continually before the Lord. - 130:7
God is much more than simply an excellent guesser because He has been around a long time and has a lot of experience. "A really good weatherman," as Jacob put it.
Scripture suggests an alternative that Jacob hints at. That God goes before us. God does not need to know all eternity in order to go before us, He only needs to be a lifetime ahead of us. And since we live in God and God lives in us, we "wrote our own book" before coming here to mortality. When we are incarnated we are "put back" in time to the beginning to live out the script that we already wrote. Here are the relevant scriptures from the Bible, as a newer Latter Day Saint, I am not sure if there are similar relevant scriptures elsewhere in the standard works.
"The LORD is the one who goes ahead of you; He will be with you He will not fail you or forsake you. Do not fear or be dismayed." Deuteronomy 31:8
'The LORD your God who goes before you will Himself fight on your behalf...Deuteronomy 1:30
You go before me and follow me. You place your hand of blessing on my head. Psalm 139:5 (NLT)
For the LORD will go before you, And the God of Israel will be your rear guard. Isaiah 52:12
I will go before you and will level the mountains; I will break down gates of bronze and cut through bars of iron. Isaiah 45:2
To Him who led His people through the wilderness, For His lovingkindness is everlasting; Psalm136:16
That would be interesting, except the Hebrew in almost every case has reference to a physical orientation of an embodied God rather than a temporal orientation of a time-fluid being. It’s an interesting thought, though.
The particular word (lihph-ney-khehm as an anglicized version, sometimes YT doesn’t like Hebrew) is also used to denote the face, as in “Which way do you face” or even our physical face with a nose, mouth, eyes, and other features. It also denotes presence, as in the physical presence of the Lord with Israel.
I think you’re thinking “before” as in “we’ll meet before 2pm” but that isn’t really the context of the scriptures you cited given the vocabulary used. I guess it could work in a sense like a train engine goes _before_ the caboose into the tunnel, as that would be acceptable here, I think. But even then Blake’s explanation of a co-creative God with respect to reality/the future still fits the scriptures cited, imo.
Knowing what we will choose is not deterministic. It’s evidence of someone who perfectly knows us. I’m struggling to find how Blake believes that God knowing the future means you had no choice
In his example, “if God told you that you will marry so-and-so, you will” is a falsehood. God would know that telling someone that could alter the events. Time travel logic seems to cover this a bit
God does not have foreknowledge. To have foreknowledge means to know something before it happens. God does not foresee the future, he sees the future. Neal A. Maxwell stated, “God does not live in the dimension of time as we do…all things are present with him….In ways that are not clear to us, he sees rather than foresees the future…”. (Things As They Really Are 1978)
Yes, this is definitely how I understand It too. We have agency, yet God knows what we'll do because He's already seen it. It actually has already happened to God. It's not foreknowledge, it's knowledge!
@@jacobnelson211 If we accept that God already has that knowledge then we can't do otherwise than we do.
@@ultroniumgalactus7343 God knowing what I will do does not force me to do it. The fact that we look at time as linear and the future as something that hasn't happened yet is a stumbling block to understanding my viewpoint. I view it similar to past events. For example, I know with certainty, what my friend did yesterday, but I did not force him to do it. In a similar way, God knows what we have done and will do, but that doesn't admit any force on His part. Just offering another way to look at it. If that doesn't help, forget about it.
String theory dictates there are up to 11 dimensions. We are currently 4 dimensional beings. Length by width by height by time. The 4th dimension is time in one direction (past to present to future). God’s body could very well be and very likely is a different dimensional being. Blake is assuming that there are only 4 dimensional beings and God is one of them because he got a body and has the same types of constraints with time that we would have. I am not going to go into each of the other dimensions, but if god was a higher dimensional being, he could exist in multiple times at the same time and would be able to see every possible decision that would have ever been able to be made in the multiverse.
Your comment is really just an appeal to ignorance. First, string theory is quite disputed and not well established and has largely been abandoned. But even if we accept it, the remaining dimensions are microscopic and not candidates for such "Flat Land" views of dimensionality. Further, you simply reject the most basic laws of logic -- bivalence and the law of the excluded middle. That is a really high price to pay for such a questionable theory of dimensions.
@@blakeostler8965 I was about to reply that String theory is highly disputed and even discredited by many and then I saw you already replied. Ive read your book and working on the rest Blake. I really wish you were at Education week and FAIR. Listening to you makes me so upset I wasnt born 50 IQ points higher to digest it all much quicker.
If the Father became human, at some point, would that have been in a different world or in our world; the same world where the Son became human?
I tend to think it was a different world before He presented the plan to us. I tend to think that God gathered us together and said something like, "I have this knowledge and experience, and I want each of you to choose to experience it too."
I think this way because I believe that our mutual experience is a type and shadow of eternal things, so I lol at real world situations that relate to heaven. In my mind, God the father was once a young man who ventured out of his own father's house, gained knowledge and experience, settled down to raise a family, and knows through wisdom that our growth requires us to also venture outside the nest just as he did.
@@DannyAGray so sad that your god was that inexperienced and left his godparents somewhere near kolob or is it just kobol.
@david janbaz why you trolling 7 months late?
Maybe this is easily refuted, but here is how I’ve always seen it.
If my son is mad because I am making him eat his dinner before I let him have a cookie, and then I take his dinner away and put a cookie in front of him and say he can eat it, I know he will eat it. He still have his agency, but based on how well I know him, I can know with certainty that he will eat the cookie.
Example two: If a person is a master mathematician and a master coder, he is given a series of equations to put into a program, he can look at those equations and know exactly what those equations will do to his program/software.
Obviously, we are not equations, but God can know us infinitely and see that every decision we make is as even more clear to hiM than me deducing that my son would eat a cookie placed in front of him.
This, compounded with the fact that we are co-eternal with God and not mere creation / code written by him seems to show that he can have perfect foreknowledge of what we will do while still allowing us to maintain our agency.
Maybe it's a butterfly effect model. There are countless outcomes depending on our actions, but God knows all of them and how to guide us through them, but we still get to act.
It makes me think of the old Goosebumps Choose Your Own Adventure books.
@@DannyAGray my complaint with that is God them DOESNT know what we are going to do
@@amoreexcellentsaint1270 in not so sure God doesn't know what we are going to do. I know we have agency, but that doesn't mean he doesn't know us well enough to know. For example, I can very easily predict things that my 19 year-old son will do when situations arise. I frequently make these predictions out to my wife and lay out consequences and scenarios of how it ends up. I regret that I'm almost always right that he chooses difficult paths, but I know him well enough to know his pride, and we spend the time before he makes those choices trying to warn him. I know him because of all the time I spent with him before he moved out, and the actions he still takes.
I think God - being a loving and wise God - knows us perfectly and can predict our actions and make plans and contingency plans ahead of time just in case, for every scenario. Additionally, God can adjust our path back to him based on every action we take, not just the big ones but the minute ones too.
What if you son has eaten 400 cookies? Will he still eat the next cookie? I suggest that you really just don't don't know. And you certainly don't know in any infallible sense in the way that God does.
Isnt the place where God resides a planet sized Urim and Thummim?
I am THEIST which means..... (Theist - a person who believes in the existence of a god or gods, specifically of a creator who intervenes in the universe. ALL RELIGIONS)
> I am definitely human, but I have a very early version of the human brain (I actually believe that there is an invisible flying wizard in the sky).
> I have to pray for things because I am not capable of achieving anything myself.
> I am not capable of making a decision on my own - God makes my decisions for me.
> I am not capable of taking responsibility - God takes responsibility for me. If I Fxxx up, it's Gods fault, never my fault!
> I am not capable of understanding Science. But my God says it don't matter cos God knows all the answers.
(Ok, he was wrong about the witches, but we Theists only slaughtered a few hundred thousand before we stopped...)
> I am 100% arrogant about what I know, even though 6.5 BILLION people say I'm wrong. I speak with God (don't you know), of course I'm always right.
> I am ridiculously ignorant of the things I do not know. That's because there is nothing I and God don't know.
> Knowing I have God on my side means I am better than you.
> My God, out of the 30,000+ Gods is the ONLY GOD. I know this because I am Theist and I am right.
"THEIST" = "THE" "1ST" in BULLSHIT (First in Arrogance and First in Ignorance as well!)
To add more scripture to my comment below, I quickly found these additional references from the Book of Mormon. And, as I continue to listen now, y'all are using the word "character". The common use of that work also bolsters this theory. Because each of us both has a character, and are a character. We are a character, and of a character, that we ourselves, as gods on the other side of the veil, created for ourselves, with free agency. We then came into mortality to live out "the me" that we each created for ourselves.
Ether 2:5 And it came to pass that the Lord commanded them that they should ago forth into the wilderness, yea, into that quarter where there never had man been. And it came to pass that the Lord did go before them, and did talk with them as he stood in a bcloud, and gave cdirections whither they should travel.
3 Nephi 20:42 For ye shall anot go out with bhaste nor go by flight; for the Lord will go before you, and the God of Israel shall be your rearward.
1 Nephi 17:13 And I will also be your alight in the wilderness; and I will prepare the way before you, if it so be that ye shall keep my commandments; wherefore, inasmuch as ye shall keep my commandments ye shall be led towards the bpromised land; and ye shall cknow that it is by me that ye are led.
It’s easy because we are ALL playing eternal baseball… we all make it to the celestial kingdom .. we are resurrected when we are ready for the celestial kingdom .. thats why there are 5 resurrections !!!
I like Blake's ideas but sometimes he has flawed logic. The likelihood that we simply cannot understand many of these things aside, he often makes assumptions that he takes as far. For instance ce. God cannot live outside of time because he has a body. Says who? This is only an assumption. God can't definitely know the future? So he's NOT all knowing? The future is a thing that he doesn't know?
Blake contradicts himself at least several times. They seem to start about the 47 min mark.
Blake has a lot of imagination, but he's overly pedantic and lacks imagination at other times. The book example is an analogy, not a perfect parallel. God dwells in higher dimensions. All Time is present before Him, just like height, width and breadth are ever present before us. Sort of like the construct in Interstellar. Blake is too smart for his own good and overthinks some things.
Strange you would would bring on a guy who believes core doctrines are not clearly defined and Mormon theology does not exist.
Joseph Smith didnt believe in Creeds for this reason. He found them too restricting . Blake and Jacob believe in the core doctrines but understand theres SOOOOOO much more.