This songs backstory is deep and dark , especially for Tuomas (suicide by song) ! And yet, Floor took this song to a new astral level (originally sung by Anette). The reason for Tuomas’ depression was not the firing of Tarja itself, it was what came after that. The fans idolized Tarja and they could not accept the fact that she got fired. In their heads Tarja was the one that made the band famous and they became really angry and hostile, especially towards Tuomas. They really took it out on him. They called him all kinds of ugly things and a lot of them expressed that they did not care if he would die. Even the prime minister of Finland got in on the act. It was headline news. He didn't know if he could continue. These are the things that brought him into depression and these are the things that echo through the lyrics So,... this song definitely takes us not only on a journey with Holopainen but also into ourselves. The music underlines the emotional gravity of the song extremely well. And I believe a lot of people can actually relate to a sense of guilt and being overwhelmed that all they desired for is the safety of home and innocence. While being personal, the song can still ring true to it's listener. That's a quality Nighwish possesses in many, many more songs. The emotional journey is one we can all share and very few bands know how to put that journey into song and especially into sound as well as Nightwish does. NWSU 🤘😎🤘.
As much as I love Tarja, she didn't make the band. She was the voice, and the face we saw most prominently, but Tuomas has always been the driving force. He composed, arranged, and oversaw every aspect of their music. It's easy for fans to gravitate to a lead singer, especially someone like Tarja, but giving her all the credit was incredibly short-sighted. The whole situation was tragic and must have been beyond emotionally devastating for all of them. I'm glad that both Nightwish and Tarja are successful now.
🙂 The good news is... Tarja & Marco made up and rekindled their friendship in December of 2017 and Tarja reached out to Tuomas last year, after his father's passing, and she and Tuomas are once again on speaking terms. ❤ So Cool.
This is NOT a fairytale. Being civil does not mean they rekindled their friendship. That is gone. You obvious don't understand how much Tuomas suffered from the greed, hate and evilnes by Marcelo. He turned Tarja totally against the guys and she let him. You really don't get the weight of his depression. This is NOT Cinderella and they did NOT live happpily ever after,ffs.
@@monicacarolina6480 And you obviously didn't see the December 2017 interview they did with 98.5 Radio Helsinki, where they both said, and I quote, "We've had the opportunity to talk and put all the behind us and we have rekindled our friendship". Their rekindled friendship has been going strong for well over 5 years now and even Tuomas said the door is now open for he and Tarja to be friends once again. But it sounds like you're a miserable person and you want everyone around you to be miserable too. Grow Up. Tarja and Marko did.
This is ridiculous. Tarja never changed. Tuomas did the same with Sammi. Then with Annette. He is not a bad guy but awful prople skills. It waa well know in public interviews that there was one more album and then Tarja would leave to finish her classical music studies. And the guys were in a partying binge and she isnt that type. It was know she was venue shy after the sex assault. Yes Tuomas and Marcello clashed and she chose her husband now of 20 years. Nothing bad or diva about that. The truth is NW was changing. Tuomas wanted a poppier sound after Once got them so bog Everyone knew it. Most ok with a change but few with how it was done and not many bought the reasons. The reality is Tarja is loved as much as ever. And Tuomas spent the next album bad mouthing her more. Jukka and Emppu still friendly Empuu just did her bday. . Floor adores her. Marco performs with her. It was always a T&T issue and none of us will ever totally know all the deets. Not Cinderella. Also not poor little Peter Pan either.
Mental health awareness, was ignored, until COVID, now more people understand. I've heard Annettes version, but Floor puts so much into it, the emotion hits you hard. The documentary on Tuomas really showed him as a Highly Sensitive Person. He must have really been torn up (Sword of Solomon, infanticide?), between wanting to stay together, but getting an ultimatum from Tarja, with a lot of pushing from her husband (Master, Passion, Greed). Can't runaway and hide, his parents gave him solace and encouragement, Floors voice when she sings their part, so moving "will always love you", then Marko moves over to Tuomas to join Emppu.
A very intense, epic, and emotional song. This is what you get when a brilliant song writer writes about a subject he really cares about, then gets an awesome band and vocalist to perform it.
Great reaction. This Song helped me in my Depression Times. Today it is better, but i mean the grey Shadows never go. They are waiting, to come back. Greetings from nothern Germany.
"I cannot cry 'cause the shoulder cries more" is basically just saying those who he would usually go to for consolation are also in pain, he has nobody to go to. No shoulder to cry on.
It took me a while to truly enjoy this song as the masterpiece that it is without having this deep feeling of sorrow and\or crying, I have such a soft spot for Tuomas, but on the same time I adore how Floor and Marko managed to portray his feelings, love their harmonies, Mother and Father always gets me, and in the end, Floor sounds like a syren mourning the loss of a loved one
Even though it was a mutual decision, Tuomas got most of the blame when Tarja left. He said that killing himself in the song prevented him in doing this in real life. In fact writing the whole album was a great outlet. This song still always gets to me, especially at the end and when Tuomas sings along: tried to save them all…
You have Bipola?. More and more people are coming out about this. We all wear many masks just to get through the day. Stay strong brother we'll win this fight together.
My guy, it's a reaction. Don't apologize for pausing and reacting. That's what we're here for. 😉 I appreciate your thoughts on this one. It's a deep song with great composition.
Tuomas’ magnum opus in my opinion. A true masterpiece. To me, The Pacific is the aftermath of the breakup and the depression he was going through. The weight of the ocean he was feeling, as well as the vast isolation, the depth of despair. Dark Passion play represents the metaphorical death he went through. The passion play is the term for the story of Christ’s execution. He mentions the “second robber to the right of Christ”, likely equating himself with the second of the two men executed with Christ, the one that accepted Christ, declared him innocent, and was forgiven. Mother and Father was based on a real conversation that he had with his mother at the time of his deepest depression, apparently much of the wording directly from it. His mother’s love pulled him through and convinced him to continue on, a new beginning. Keep exploring Nightwish.
@@darkaether2798 I’ve heard that theory as well, and there could be something to it, but to me, it doesn’t fit. Judas was not a robber, and if he was the second robber, who would be first? The two men executed with Christ were thieves, the impenitent thief, Gestas (or Gesmas) according to apocryphal writings, was on Christ’s left according to Christian tradition, and the penitent thief, Dismas, on his right. I think the Judas theory comes from the Davinci painting of the last supper, where he appears to be seated second to Christ’s right. I don’t think Tuomas associates himself with Judas, as he is the one feeling betrayed by others, not the betrayer. More likely, in my opinion, it is the penitent thief Tuomas empathizes with. Only Tuomas knows for sure.
Facts about this song and this amazing performance that are interesting for you to notice next time you see this video. Lyrics begin with the boy saying the phrase "The end" and it ends with the boy saying "The beginning". The sweetest guitarist on the planet (Empu) is checking on Tuomas and he respond with a smile and probably with an "am ok" phrase. Tuomas said in an interview that it's really hard for him to perform this song and that's why they don't play it. He also said that the times they did he actually asked from the sound engineer to cut the vocals from his monitor, so he be able to play it without becoming very emotional. Almost midsong the boy sais "I only have three minutes...", If you check the time, it's exactly 3 minutes before the 'blade' fell upon him (check Tuomas hand movement). At the end of the song Marco and Empu are gathering near Tuomas to show him their support. There are tons of other things in this song of course but those was some 'highlights' from this performance. I'm glad you enjoyed it. Greetings from Greece 🤘
Fold-back vocals for Tuomas, here: th-cam.com/video/v65-ErfUyVM/w-d-xo.html His complete thoughts on TPATP here: th-cam.com/video/v65-ErfUyVM/w-d-xo.html
Just before the start of Dark Passion Play, the child says "for years I have been strapped onto this altar", and after finishing that line you can hear the sound of a thick rope, like the kind used to moore ships, stretching and snapping. The boy got his wish: the waves snapped the ropes binding him to the altar and swept him into the darkness beneath the waves.
"I cannot cry because the shoulder cries more"- Tuomas couldn't lean on his bandmates because they were just as responsible as he was, even though most of the backlash was directed at him. You see Emppu go to him near the beginning, he asked Tuomas how he was doing, and you can see Tuomas say 'awesome'. At the end, both Emppu and Marko go him in a show of support. Floor looks over to him for a moment before saying 'thank you'. "I cannot die ,I, a whore for the cold world"- Tuomas is committing suicide by song and not in real life. He still has more music in him to share with the world. That 5th movement lyrics are some of the words Tuomas' mother said to him when he went home to his parents house.
Hehehe and that's why Tuomas never explains his lyrics, everyone reads something different in them. For me the shoulder that cries more were the fans, the public. They were crying harder than everyone else, while he needed them for support in the aftermat of having to fire his friend. That's also why he felt like a whore for the cold world, he felt raped by everyone getting on his case. Tuomas got the majority of the hate but the decision to fire Tarja was unanimous and from what I heard came originally from Marko. In any way it lead to this masterpiece
Thank you for this video!!!! Not only am I a massive Nightwish/Floor Jansen (and Epica) freakfan, but I also happen to be a bi-polar autist with recedive depression and many other side effects to my story. I applaud you for getting up and giving other people with mental health issues a voice who can not tell their own story without others shaming them for being different, anti-social or even telling them they are freaks. This song strikes my heart again and again, because this describes depression so accurately for me: having two faces at the same time to hide your depression to the rest of the world. Again: thank you for making your statement with this video.
I love Anette, the song needed to be done when it was, BUT only Floor articulates the feelings and emotion that Tuomas needed to unburden himself. It is a pity, from the point of view of a sublime artistic performance, but totally understandable that this may never be performed live again.
Maybe someday we will see a Nightwish performance with Marco as a guest. I would so love to hear Endlessness sung live at least once. If they did a special preforms with Marco, they could bring back so many songs for us. Ghost River. Romanticide. The Islander. While Your Lips are Still Red. Too many for me to think of right now, but it would be incredible to see.
Nice to see you´r back, or maby i myself has been lost? We Finns are a bit peculear/strange people. We wonn Icehockey and lost our mental health again, (in a positive way) Tuomas is like Mozart/Bethooven. Under this Covid stress Nightwish gave all their mony from selling x-tra fanthings to all their workers around them. Greetings from City of Vasa in Finland with Love
If I had only one thing anymore to show to my loved ones, it would be this song and performance. I have already showed to my mother and sisters Ghost Love Score and Shoemaker. Even that all of them don`t like metal at all, they understand feelings and messages. This is breathtaking, soul crushing, and in the end (The Beginning) Nightwish put you back together
Another great reaction to one of the three Nightwish masterpieces and one of the most personal for Tuomas and the fans. The soprano at the start is not Floor but a boy soprano. I love how Tuomas used the literary plot and lyrical elements from Poe's the Pit and the Pendulum as a vehicle for exploring his journey through the torment and depression the fans put him through. "i cannot cry cause the shoulder cries more" is Tuomas lamenting that he can't turn to his bandmates for emotional support because they are hurting as well. The Pacific section is Tuomas looking for a place of refuge and safety. Tuomas frequently identifies with the Ocean as a place of calm and comfort and often says he has an ocean soul (Dead Boy's Poem). In this section he refects on teh past and the good memories from teh beginning of teh band. One cool compositional element, in the spoken word section where the boy says "I only have three minutes and counting" it is then three minutes latter in the song where the pendulum descends and kills Tuomas as portrayed by Tuomas slashing his hand across his throat and then the heartbeat that slowly stops. The last movement, Mother and Father, uses words actually spoken to Tuomas by his parents during his recovery. Floor's delivery is just so emotionally powerful, melding the pain of loss with hope and encouragement for the future. Makes me tear up every time. As you can imagine this song is hard for Tuomas to perform and he has said that he often has the sound engineers cut the vocals from his in ears or he gets to emotional to play. This is why you see Empuu and Marko check on him during the performance and surround him with support at the end. One of the better in depth analysis I have read of this song is by Annika Hausen. annikahausen.com/2020/10/30/the-poet-and-the-pendulum/
Hey I'm bipolar as well & been really slogging through for 30 years. This kinda makes me think of dead boy's poem "sing what you can't say, forget what you can't play". I'm glad Tuomas had this outlet
After hearing this composition (you can hardly call it a song) and shedding some tears, i got really curious about the backstory. So i looked it up, and holy damn!! I know a lot of people have these depressive issues in their lives, but the way Tuomas can translate those feelings into this is just….mindblowing! It took me almost half an hour to recuperate and being able to even say anything. The Mrs was frowning at me, asking why i was so down. I explained her a little about this backstory and showed her this. She broke in tears saying:” now i understand why”. I dont know if this is what it takes to be a member of the NW-army, and i am really new to this band, but damn, i cant stop listening to them. I started with GLS, Storytime and now this. I decided to soak in every song before hopping to the next. It honestly is a lot to take in, but i love them. I bought tickets for the worlds collide tour with Within Temptation and Evanescence on Nov 30 in Amsterdam, and the day before NW plays there. Tried to find tickets but it is all sold out. I surely will go see them live at some point. For niw i love the reactions. Keep it up!
Thx for a great reaction 👍. I'm sure many of the guys and gals here really appreciate that you did your homework first...hence understanding the song and adding to your enjoyment of what is a true masterpiece of song writing...
Blimey, I could write a thesis about the background to this, and about the song itself, though I'm not going to get into it here. I'll just say, as regards The Pacific, that the ocean and water have always figured hugely in Tuomas's lyrics. It's his refuge, along with the forest, and The Meadows of Heaven. Pacific also means peace-loving, which may be an intentional metaphor.
Not to forget that Tuomas chosen career before music was to become a marine biologist, something he has a deep interest for and hence the common references here and elsewhere to "an ocean soul".
We all read too much into Nightwish lyrics, but that's the whole purpose of poetry. Everybody's interpretation is equally as important, to me we are an inclusive community.
Great job!! Thank you so much for opening up about mental health. It’s so important that we create a safe space and bring awareness to it. Awesome reaction, as always! I really appreciate your interpretation of the song! 😎
Thank you so much for reading the letters and the lyrics beforehand. And also for having watched the video with subtitles. I think this is a great show of respect for the history of the band, with the older fans and also with your subscribers. Greetings from Brazil.
When I hear this song, I want to sweep Tuomas up into my arms and hug him. I can't imagine what a person would have to be feeling to essentially kill themselves in a song. I'm glad he did it this way, and not for real. The world would be a much darker place without Tuomas, Nightwish, and their incredible body of work. Tuomas has a wonderful mom who loves him and he doesn't need another one, but this song makes me want to protect him - which he does not need. He's moved on from his depression, married an amazing woman, and skyrocketed Nightwish to heights I'm sure even he never imagined. Obviously I've never met any of them, but they all seem to be very humble, down-to-earth people. They are very deserving of their good fortune, in my opinion. Their combined talent and hard work have taken them far. I'm kind of sad that you missed the "three minutes and counting" reference in the middle of the song. After the lyrics say he has three minutes and counting, it's just a little over three minutes later when he "dies" in the song. The next part I love so much may be just speculation by fans, but I hope we are right. At the very end of the song, both Emppu and Marco show their care for Tuomas by moving up to stand on the keyboard riser with him as the song fades out. It's such a beautiful show of solidarity and friendship, if we're interpreting it correctly. It shows us that this band is a rock-solid unit who will go to bat for each other. Despite the problems in their past, they will move forward together. Of course, we did lose Marco a while back, but I don't think that had to do with any band animosity. Marco just couldn't stomach his treatment by the record label, promoters, money people... I really don't know because I don't understand the music business. But he was being treated badly, not by Nightwish, and he had to quit. I like to say that Tuomas wears his heart on his sleeve through his music. This song is the best representation of that. Thank you for taking the time to listen and react to it. I think you understand them more than you think you do. Have you heard The Greatest Show on Earth yet? That one is another masterpiece. I look forward to your next videos.
Nightwish is one of the few bands that speak to my soul and make me feel, well that and David Gilmour's guitar solos :) This song works every single time as does shoemaker and hits me to the core. Toumas was going to call it quits, everyone hated him and he went back to his family where he felt unconditional love and no judgement to heal, we've all been in that place at one point or another. 'The End' said at the beginning of the song was the end of the Tarja era of the band, 'The Beginning' said at the end of the song symbolises a new beginning for the band for the next era.
I don't know what a Pokémon is, but play to win, Wally! Love what you're doing. As stigmas fade, it astonishes me how many ppl suffer from bipolar, like myself. I spent years untreated and misunderstood b4 the ACA gave me the lifeline of heath insurance. Yes, you are saying his name correctly, Tuomas (pron: TOO-oh-Moss). Thank you for a thoughtful and respectful reaction...and for waiting to fully embrace this. "I will always love you", were words from his mother. Trivia: the soprano at the opening and the spoken word parts performed by Guy Elliott, a young boy. And, during the performance of this song, Tuomas cuts the vocal feed to his in-ear monitors...even 10yrs later, too painful.
Only song I have ever cried with. And I didn't even know the back story then. It was just Floor's amazing performance that made me cry. And when I understood what was it about I cried even more!
I believe that "The Pacific" refers to suicidal ideation; the desire to simply sink into the depths and let the sea carry away all the pain. At one point Tuomas mentions waterfalls, but says that the beauty is "underneath" them; in the water. He asks to be "tucked in beneath the blue, beneath the pain, beneath the rain". He's asking to be "tucked in" for his eternal rest, beneath the blue of the ocean, beneath where his pain can reach him. The only way to get "beneath" the rain is to be fully submerged, after all. I've read from people who have had suicidal thoughts that the ocean is appealing, to just sink down into the darkness beneath the waves and be enveloped in Nature's final embrace, almost like returning to the womb. I believe that this is the meaning behind the section title of Pacific.
It is hard to like Poet exactly, so dark, so desperately dark - but it is a magnificent composition and this is a particularly excellent version (I don't think it will be performed live again). It is also the best depiction, as a piece of performance art, of a mental health crisis. While I have no details in common with Tuomas, I understand the emotional journey portrayed her intimately - the chaos and storms inside, the different voices within arguing for destruction, the anger at yourself, at the world, the longing for relief (this is the "Pacific" chapter - it seems like a lullaby in tone but is speaking about death). Without the final element, of Floor taking the role of mother and bringing us all to shore safely, I think I'd find this performance too much to ever watch again. As it stands, I don't usually make it past a desperate man's cry of "save me" without just losing it. I honestly believe the potential was there for us to have lost this remarkable man, this remarkable talent. What a tragedy it would have been. Floor's performance is masterful, as expected. The one thing she does that really is a game changer, technical excellence aside, is that she embodies the music as a storyteller. I don't know there is a term for it exactly, but it is often like she becomes a conduit for artistic and narrative intent and not just music. The way she uses her hands, the expressions and motions. I cannot explain it but good grief is it mermerising to watch.
I think you have the basic meaning of this song very well understood Wally! To continue on in the same manner made Tuomas feel like he was whoring himself and his hard work for the money. A change had to be made for him to continue his dream. Also keep in mind that the up and down pace of this song is inspired by the mental process & journey from anger, to disappointment, acceptance of death, and back to mental stress and chaos. As portrayed in the famous Edgar Allen Poe horror story "The Pit and the Pendulum". Did you catch what happened at exactly 3 minutes and counting? Whoosh!!!!!!!!!! 2nd robber to the right of Christ - Dismas, the good thief - the innocent one Cut in half infanticide - Tuomas plans to kill a part of his soul - the child part IMHO - Floor's crying lament at the end is for the childlike part of Tuomas' soul which needed to be severed and killed off, allowing Tuomas to move forward with the next incarnation of his dream of Nightwish. The journey of each of our lives, from birth to death is a constant struggle to hold onto our childhood innocence. Don't be afraid to try new things, embrace adventure, and the zest for living each day with the myriad of possibilities it hold for each of us. Never grow up in your heart, even though the responsibilities and realities of adulthood must be accepted. Don't let it crush your inner spirit! Great job Wally. Strength to you during those dark times my friend. many of us deal with this throughout our lives. 🙏
Sir WallyTheBandit, mental heath is an absolutely important topic, which to me should be brought froward in YT videos and in general. This one from Nightwish is a tale of Tuomas circling the drain with his ultimate aim of ending himself. He stops at a momentous conversation with his mother, and writes this song instead. My heart goes out to you, bipolar disease can be hard to manage. I only suffer from (not saying because I write under my real name). Even with professional support and medication it's no joke.
Dark Passion Play album is really dark and angry. Tuomas didn't give a shhhh and put everything out there. You could react to: Master Passion Greed (song is direct FU to Marcelo. There are only album version) Bye Bye Beautiful (no explanations needed) "Pre-orders for Dark Passion Play had it certified gold in Finland before it had even been released. The album debuted at number one in 6 European countries, selling over 100,000 copies in Finland (triple platinum). In February 2008, the album was certified quadruple-platinum in Finland, after having sold over 120,000 copies, which makes it one of the 40 best-selling albums of all time in the country. Worldwide, Dark Passion Play has sold almost 2 million copies since its release." "In 2016, an article by Teamrock considers Dark Passion Play as one of the "best albums of this century", ranking it at number 60 on their countdown of the "21st century's greatest albums"" Kinda funny how things went on after the criticism.
Guylain Prince OFM did a remarkable breakdown / analysis of the lyrics to this song. i highly recommend checking out his youtube channel. there is so much in this song to unpack.
There are no right or wrong in your understanding or rather interpretation of this song. It's a story about a deep personal depression - the course of the depression is not necessarily very important, because it is only a trigger. The Pacific / ocean Tuomas often uses - could easily be a description of something that big that it contains myriads of everything, known and unknown - emotions, facts, thoughts, lies, ideas, rumors etc etc. He also talks about the Universe as an ocean... The whole situation about Tarja being fired, and all the stupidity before and afterwards - is an ocean of mixed emotions, actions, lies, dreams etc etc. Floor is doing an incredible job of telling this story. It's a genuine masterpiece - meant to be felt from you own experiences in life, so you can relate to the feelings and emotions..
Pacific...Pacific Ocean. Passive, peaceful. Portuguese explorer Magellan called the ocean pacífico (“peaceful”) (in c. 1519) because, after sailing through the stormy seas off Cape Horn, the expedition found calm waters.
It’s interesting. Tarja and the the rest of the member were on different paths. Tarja felt she should pursue a solo career separate from Nightwish. At the time she didn’t prioritize Nightwish vs her solo career. Of course, when onstage she was wonderful because she is a wonderful singer. I also think there was miscommunication and misunderstanding between Tarja and the Nightwish band members. Tarja probably felt the band would be there for her while she needed it. Compare to how Floor is pursuing her solo career Floor has learned to communicate with Nightwish to make sure she she is there for them such whatever practice sessions and commitment to tour schedules. Obviously, I don’t know behind the scenes of how Floor is working with the band and the whole Nightwish organization but they seem to support Floor’s solo endeavors. So learning from the past experiences has occurred. Plus, Floor is friend of Tarja’s as well.
I may be a bit biased, as I have not been spared from the topic of depression myself and can all too well relate to the thoughts that go through one's head on some dark days. The original song with Anette already got under my skin, but what it became with Floor on the mic and the whole performance around it turned it into a masterpiece for me that is second to none. I can easily count on one hand the number of songs I know that can convey such a rollercoaster ride of emotions in such a brilliant way. ___________________ 「 _"完璧なんてありえない" / Perfection? No one gets there._ 」 --- from BAND-MAID 'Warning' 🕊
Did you recognise when the speakin of rape and 3 minutes counting. Count 3 minutes and Tuomas makes his suicide aprox from this text. Thats a master of making music and thank good R alive.
It got to the stage where Tarja refused to travel with the rest of the band, wouldn't rehearse with them, couldn't see the point of playing smaller venues, and announced she was leaving after the next album. They really didn't want to fire her but she left them with little choice. Thankfully it worked out well for all concerned in the end.
The shoulder was the rest of the band, he had to be strong for everyone else because of the back lash from the fans they where afraid this could be the end of the band that he'd put his/their heart in to, it's always been about the music for them God bless the end was what his parents said to him
I always though the shoulder were the fans, the public, they were crying harder and more than he himself. At a time when he needed their support in the aftermath of firing his long time friend, he could not turn to them. He felt like a whore for the cold world, cause he felt raped. He got the whole load of sh*t over him while the decision was made by all.
I too suffer from depression and have learned not to try and beat it but to learn to live with it. Here if anyone needs to chat. You're not alone. Never suffer in silence. Greetings from County Durham, England. Jay.xx
For a song dealing with teenage bipolar by a stellar songwriter, check out ‘Fear of a Blank Planet’ by Porcupine Tree and written by the amazing Steven Wilson.
The Poet and the Pendulum was written after firing Tarja the original singer. She was the face of Nightwish at the time, and Tuomas considered her a muse to many of the songs he had written at that point. They had also grown up in the same city and knew each other since early childhood. All the band members decided together to fire her for acting too much of a diva. According to all the band members, Tarja was missing lots of rehearsals and would not even travel with the band anymore. Tuomas was painted as the devil by many fans, and went through a deep dark depression. He even considered ending the band and committing suicide. He wrote The Poet and the Pendulum at that time, and actually kills himself in the song. He said he killed himself in the song, as to not do it in real life. To this day every time he plays it, it takes him back to those feelings, and shows on his face. In the last part, Mother and Father, words are sung to him that his real mother said to him at that time of his deep depression. One part that touches me at the end when the guitarist Emppu and bassist Marko, the only other two involved with firing Tarja (that were still active with the band)were standing with Tuomas at the end in solidarity and love.
I'm so grateful Tuomas did not give in to his depression and found a creative outlet to get it out of his system. We have been given 17 more years of his genius music because his family & certain friends showed him compassion, allowing him to weather the negative storms that surrounded him by critics and haters. The hate he received was really uncalled for as Tarja was leaving Nightwish the following year anyway. She had announced that. I found it blatantly unfair in that respect - it's not like they let her go when she was still committed to the band. It was purely a backlash of making public the reasons for the dismissal, however, the way the press was used, they knew if they did not get their side out it could be twisted. A lot of the issues they started having was her putting her new solo career ahead of what they still needed to do to finish the touring her last album. Such an unfortunate end to an Era- the title so Apt.
You missed Toumas's suicide. Mother and father, throughout the song Empuu and Marco check in on Toumas, and at the end, but seeing Marco, Floor and Empuu sitting on Kai's drum stage, seeing Toumas alone always chokes me. Floors final, soft, "thank you" makes me sob.
Just deleted the comment I was making - last time I stated something regarding this I got attacked for having an opinion. And the sad thing was I could see both sides. Lets just say the situation got so bad and Tuomas was so upset and conflicted that he couldn't fire her in person but had to do it in a letter.
The depression wasn’t as much with Tarja leaving, it went on long enough, at that point it was more anger, dealing with this fifth wheel, & her seemingly changing, certainly we all grieve lost relationships, but the “ depression” was the ongoing battle with the public, media, where everyone thought you were the best writer, band, a genius, & I expect he thought it might be all over , at least as they knew it. The band was aligned, they dealt with as one has to any toxic work place situation. Eventually it has to end, to restore it. Everyone probably has been through something like that, as working is such a huge part of our lives, but he was saying he couldn’t cry with his buds over his stuff, because “the shoulder/the band cries more”. This is Tuomas story. He tried to carry his stuff. The split is loving the music, life of the band, but whore for the cold world... caring, wanting to please those forces, ...... media, fans, the chaos of surviving it all, & he desperately cares. Next is Master Passion Greed, there you get the anger at the interloper, & it is awesome. Never played live, someone put giant words over the official copy, it is easy to read, hard to understand it all without lyrics, if you want to use it. I use it to listen to. Love hearing Marko rage! 🤘🔥💥 “I will always love you” is his mother speaking to him in the coming “home” section, as she advises him he has the resources within, & maybe that was the birth of dealing with this whole thing in song, because that is what Tuomas does. Love this “feeling man”!
Thank you for nice reaction to an incredable song! I suggest you listening to Indian street metal band Bloodywood, song Jee Verey. This is a song about mental illness. It has saved many lifes (you can see it from the comments under the song). Greetings from Denmark!
it is NOT about losing a bandmember, it is about ultimate BETRAYEL, media and fans backlash even Finnish politicians blaming Tuomas. It's way more than losing hischildhood friend Tarja. If you listen to master passion GREED (about Tarja's husband and manager, Marcello) and bye bye beautiful (about Tarja) you will understand.
Right, seen the title. This is my No 1 so I hope you have done the research. We shall see... 🍿 Well, you got almost all of it. What a work. The "I will always love you" was part of Mother and Father. Tuomas went back home for a while and it is said this quotes things his mother said to him that helped him come through his depression. It always leaves me speechless for a few minutes.
"The poet and the pendulum" is from Anette's time. It was released on the album Dark Passion Play (2007), the group's sixth. According to Tuomas this song was the way he found to deal with the depression after Tarja's departure. The band received a lot of hatred from all over the world. They lost a lot of fans. I'm going to summarize the story for you to understand why people's reaction was so negative. Tarja's resignation was a very dramatic episode. The relationship between her and the band had been bad for some time, so at the end of 2004 she decided to tell the band that she would leave. The idea was to record one last album and go on a farewell tour. She wanted to announce her decision to the public and prepare fans for the vocalist change, however, Tuomas convinced her not to do so at the time. It turns out that, after that meeting, the band planned a public firing on the sly. They delivered a letter to Tarja at the end of the "End of an era" show and posted it on the band's website the next day. The band made several accusations against Tarja and her husband. It was a scandal. In response, Tarja wrote a letter and held a press conference to respond better to the group's accusations. Her husband also spoke. He answered more than 150 questions from fans around the world and posted the answers on the internet. Given the reports that were brought and other available records, including videos and documentaries, a large part of the fan base revolted against the band. Faced with criticism from different sides, Tuomas fell into a depression and wrote "The poet and the pendulum" as a way of dealing with the situation. Some say that Tuomas suffered from unrequited love for Tarja. This feeling would have been the fuel for the composition of some songs. The question of Tuomas' love for Tarja is actually an old theory of fans. This theory was built even before Tarja's dismissal, and is based on old interviews and on the lyrics that Tuomas used to write. The idea of the existence of unrequited love was strengthened when Marcelo himself (Tarja's husband) spoke about the subject in the responses he gave to fans. See these answers: "36) Many people say that everything this happened because he Tuomas felt something for the Tarja and this feeling was not corresponded. It was the impression that passed. This can be answered? Or not? Heluza Mercaus Viegas Brazil I promised that everything was going to be answered. To cut a long story short, in October 2004 I needed to ask Tuomas to come to talk to Tarja and me in our hotel room in the middle of the tour. Even though he knows Tarja many years before me, he never could achieve his goal. In this meeting I clearly told him that his chances to be with Tarja were gone. I needed to tell him that there was no reason to keep on trying any longer, since I married her. As usual he didn't speak much, but he said to me that nobody was going to be able to stop his love for Tarja. After this unhappy meeting, everything changed. The guy that until then said in interviews that, without Tarja, that would be the end of Nightwish, changed his message into: Nightwish is my band, my music, my lyrics, the scenery of my soul. Is up to you to check all interviews from the band before and after end of 2004 until today. Tarja never changed her thoughts about her position in the band. She has never mentioned that Nightwish was her band or that she was more important than the other band members. Nightwish lyrics are Tuomas' life diary, as it has been said. With this new information that I am sharing with you, please check once again some of them. We all can find amazing songs with beautiful lyrics full of poetry. Their meaning won't remain that uncertain any longer. 37) Was Tarja in any romance/love way with Tuomas (he seems jelouice to me). Mariela Todoroviè Slovenia Tarja never had any romance nor was ever in love with him. I have received many questions accusing Tuomas of being jealous, envious, bitter and of being in love. I have no interest in making any judgement about those things and people's feelings. Other people than Tuomas also told me how much they love Tarja. There are many different levels of love and I have no problems with any of them as long as reasonable limits are not exceeded. Is funny if you carefully check the cover of End of an Era (that Tarja didn't propose, but accepted). You will find what seems to be an angel (Tarja's nickname in the official forum of her web page) and a demon or god. Only these two characters dominate the scene. I couldn't find any other characters in the cover at all. They are standing facing away from each other. Between them there is turmoil and a strong light, whether striking into or coming out of a cracked heart. It is definitely not Tarja's heart. Her heart is very healthy and full of love, because she has always listened to it (instead of me); as Tuomas advised her to do in the open letter. The title of the scene is "Nightwish - End of an Era". You can make your own conclusions. I am merely describing a DVD cover 157) What were, in your opinion, the real motives for Tarja Turunen to be out of Nightwish? ¿Cuáles fueron, en tu opinión, los verdaderos motivos de la salida de Tarja Turunen de Nightwish? Marta Perez Spain I think we will never know the real motives. Motives rest in Tuomas, some close people and band members' hearts. Seems there has been at least very strong motives to kick out Tarja, specially the way they did it. Some of them might be the mentioned cultural differences that band members have in their minds and hearts with me, the non corresponded love from Tuomas to Tarja, Tarja's values that didn't match Tuomas and Tarja's maturity that didn't match Tuomas and the others, not compatible life styles between band members, different concept of friendship and responsibilities that comes with it, different approach to record business, the obvious problem to communicate within the band; just to name a few." The depression itself and the song "The poet and the pendulum" can, in theory, be read as a reflection of this love drama. Regardless of whether this theory about Tuomas is true or not, the fact is that bringing internal issues to the public was the worst choice. A lot of the band's past has been brought up and no one has come out unscathed. Because of the scandal, Tarja lost some fans and contracts for her solo career. On the other hand, the band also lost fans and had little-known events brought to a wider audience. For example, Tarja suffered an attempted sexual abuse in the middle of a concert in Guadalajara in 2000. At the time, the band continued playing as if nothing had happened, even after Tarja left the stage along with the criminal and the security guards. There are videos of the episode here on TH-cam. Later, after Tarja left, the band itself mentioned the event in its official biography. The way the band decided to fire Tarja and the facts of the past that were brought to public knowledge infuriated many fans. To get a sense of how big the fan base was in the past, look at the number of views of the first videos with Anette ("Bye, bye, beautiful" and "Amaranth"). These numbers are representative of the fan base situation at the end of Tarja's period and beginning of Anette. The first album with Anette was the band's first album ever released with TH-cam ever running. We were all curious to know who the new singer was and what she sounded like. Unfortunately Anette didn't please a large part of the original fan base, which also contributed to the band losing more fans. Anette and Floor helped to attract a different audience and reconfigure the fan base. Some old fans have returned with the entry of Floor. She is nothing new to us. For example, I've known her since her first band, After Forever. Here are some sources: Resignation letter written by the band: nightwish.fandom.com/wiki/Open_Letter_to_Tarja_Turunen Tarja's press conference after the dismissal, in full: th-cam.com/video/ATDFinGZ8D8/w-d-xo.html Marcelo's detailed response to questions sended by Nightwish fans at the dismissal epoque: www.tuomasholopainen.fora.pl/wywiady-artykuly,29/odpowiedzi-marcelo-na-pytania-fanow-czerwiec-2006,455.html Letter written by Tarja: nightwish.fandom.com/wiki/Open_Letter_from_Tarja_Turunen A snippet from the book "Once Upon a Nightwish" detailing the abuse incident - fromwishestoeternity.tumblr.com/post/111177476493/alfaangel-i-just-put-together-some-facts-about/amp The video of the abuse incident: th-cam.com/video/3bj4h1807kY/w-d-xo.html
Tell me - do you read 3 chapters of a book and decide how to interperate it ? Do yourself a favour and LISTEN AND WATCH , You won't find a better track in the Nightwish cannon. By the way Pacific had two meanings.
This song has NOTHING to do with "Mental Illness" ! Ugh ! no need to conflate , it's simply about a depressive reaction to the harsh backlash from fans & media post Tarja.
what's your problem? you haven't had a nice thing to say for so long i don't even know why you're still here. every video i see you saying something crappy in the comments
You are surely clueless on this subject if you believe what you just posted. Depression and thoughts of suicide and self harm and hating yourself is definitely a form of mental illness. Does Tuomas suffer from those problems today? I believe he doesn't, which means at the time he wrote this he was mentally ill from the trauma of it all. Today he is healed and doesn't think like that anymore. In short, he suffered from 'mental illness'. What is so difficult about that to understand?
Depression is a form of mental illness. It's also not "simply" about a "depressive reaction", that's very much not doing the song, nor the state of mind when it was written any justice. There is nothing simple about this composition.
@@domesticatedpanda no one said the composition was "simple" but depression ,something most "everyone" experiences at one time or another is not a mental illness,and I am sure Tuomas would be insulted by the inference.
![WHAT AN EMOTIONAL ROLLERCOASTER !! FIRST TIME HEARING -- NIGHTWISH -- POET & THE PENDULUM [REACTION]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/oFV5Y90rvJA/mqdefault.jpg)
This songs backstory is deep and dark , especially for Tuomas (suicide by song) ! And yet, Floor took this song to a new astral level (originally sung by Anette).
The reason for Tuomas’ depression was not the firing of Tarja itself, it was what came after that. The fans idolized Tarja and they could not accept the fact that she got fired. In their heads Tarja was the one that made the band famous and they became really angry and hostile, especially towards Tuomas. They really took it out on him. They called him all kinds of ugly things and a lot of them expressed that they did not care if he would die. Even the prime minister of Finland got in on the act. It was headline news. He didn't know if he could continue.
These are the things that brought him into depression and these are the things that echo through the lyrics
So,... this song definitely takes us not only on a journey with Holopainen but also into ourselves. The music underlines the emotional gravity of the song extremely well. And I believe a lot of people can actually relate to a sense of guilt and being overwhelmed that all they desired for is the safety of home and innocence. While being personal, the song can still ring true to it's listener. That's a quality Nighwish possesses in many, many more songs. The emotional journey is one we can all share and very few bands know how to put that journey into song and especially into sound as well as Nightwish does.
NWSU 🤘😎🤘.
The demo version with Marco singing is amazing in its own way. But Floor is Floor ofc 😀
Totally agree wiv what Timo says 🖤🤘🏼🤘🏼🤘🏼🇬🇧
Timo, your comment is so true and so well written. Thank you.
As much as I love Tarja, she didn't make the band. She was the voice, and the face we saw most prominently, but Tuomas has always been the driving force. He composed, arranged, and oversaw every aspect of their music. It's easy for fans to gravitate to a lead singer, especially someone like Tarja, but giving her all the credit was incredibly short-sighted. The whole situation was tragic and must have been beyond emotionally devastating for all of them. I'm glad that both Nightwish and Tarja are successful now.
I suffer from panic disorder. Thank you for speaking out about mental health.
🙂 The good news is... Tarja & Marco made up and rekindled their friendship in December of 2017 and Tarja reached out to Tuomas last year, after his father's passing, and she and Tuomas are once again on speaking terms. ❤ So Cool.
If it's true,that's great news,they was together in band Soo many years
This is NOT a fairytale. Being civil does not mean they rekindled their friendship. That is gone. You obvious don't understand how much Tuomas suffered from the greed, hate and evilnes by Marcelo. He turned Tarja totally against the guys and she let him. You really don't get the weight of his depression. This is NOT Cinderella and they did NOT live happpily ever after,ffs.
@@monicacarolina6480 And you obviously didn't see the December 2017 interview they did with 98.5 Radio Helsinki, where they both said, and I quote, "We've had the opportunity to talk and put all the behind us and we have rekindled our friendship". Their rekindled friendship has been going strong for well over 5 years now and even Tuomas said the door is now open for he and Tarja to be friends once again. But it sounds like you're a miserable person and you want everyone around you to be miserable too. Grow Up. Tarja and Marko did.
This is ridiculous. Tarja never changed. Tuomas did the same with Sammi. Then with Annette. He is not a bad guy but awful prople skills. It waa well know in public interviews that there was one more album and then Tarja would leave to finish her classical music studies. And the guys were in a partying binge and she isnt that type. It was know she was venue shy after the sex assault. Yes Tuomas and Marcello clashed and she chose her husband now of 20 years. Nothing bad or diva about that.
The truth is NW was changing. Tuomas wanted a poppier sound after Once got them so bog Everyone knew it. Most ok with a change but few with how it was done and not many bought the reasons. The reality is Tarja is loved as much as ever. And Tuomas spent the next album bad mouthing her more. Jukka and Emppu still friendly Empuu just did her bday. . Floor adores her. Marco performs with her. It was always a T&T issue and none of us will ever totally know all the deets. Not Cinderella. Also not poor little Peter Pan either.
Thanks for opening up about mental health. It really isn't as rare as it often makes us feel it is.
Mental health awareness, was ignored, until COVID, now more people understand.
I've heard Annettes version, but Floor puts so much into it, the emotion hits you hard.
The documentary on Tuomas really showed him as a Highly Sensitive Person.
He must have really been torn up (Sword of Solomon, infanticide?),
between wanting to stay together, but getting an ultimatum from Tarja,
with a lot of pushing from her husband (Master, Passion, Greed).
Can't runaway and hide, his parents gave him solace and encouragement,
Floors voice when she sings their part, so moving "will always love you",
then Marko moves over to Tuomas to join Emppu.
A very intense, epic, and emotional song. This is what you get when a brilliant song writer writes about a subject he really cares about, then gets an awesome band and vocalist to perform it.
Great reaction. This Song helped me in my Depression Times. Today it is better, but i mean the grey Shadows never go. They are waiting, to come back. Greetings from nothern Germany.
"I cannot cry 'cause the shoulder cries more" is basically just saying those who he would usually go to for consolation are also in pain, he has nobody to go to. No shoulder to cry on.
It took me a while to truly enjoy this song as the masterpiece that it is without having this deep feeling of sorrow and\or crying, I have such a soft spot for Tuomas, but on the same time I adore how Floor and Marko managed to portray his feelings, love their harmonies, Mother and Father always gets me, and in the end, Floor sounds like a syren mourning the loss of a loved one
Even though it was a mutual decision, Tuomas got most of the blame when Tarja left. He said that killing himself in the song prevented him in doing this in real life. In fact writing the whole album was a great outlet.
This song still always gets to me, especially at the end and when Tuomas sings along: tried to save them all…
''the beginning'' at the end gets me. (every time)
You have Bipola?. More and more people are coming out about this. We all wear many masks just to get through the day. Stay strong brother we'll win this fight together.
My guy, it's a reaction. Don't apologize for pausing and reacting. That's what we're here for. 😉 I appreciate your thoughts on this one. It's a deep song with great composition.
Tuomas’ magnum opus in my opinion. A true masterpiece. To me, The Pacific is the aftermath of the breakup and the depression he was going through. The weight of the ocean he was feeling, as well as the vast isolation, the depth of despair. Dark Passion play represents the metaphorical death he went through. The passion play is the term for the story of Christ’s execution. He mentions the “second robber to the right of Christ”, likely equating himself with the second of the two men executed with Christ, the one that accepted Christ, declared him innocent, and was forgiven. Mother and Father was based on a real conversation that he had with his mother at the time of his deepest depression, apparently much of the wording directly from it. His mother’s love pulled him through and convinced him to continue on, a new beginning. Keep exploring Nightwish.
Absolutely. This is a greater masterwork for me than TGSOE.
I think 2nd robber to the right of Christ refers to the last supper, where Judas is the second right.
@@darkaether2798 I’ve heard that theory as well, and there could be something to it, but to me, it doesn’t fit. Judas was not a robber, and if he was the second robber, who would be first? The two men executed with Christ were thieves, the impenitent thief, Gestas (or Gesmas) according to apocryphal writings, was on Christ’s left according to Christian tradition, and the penitent thief, Dismas, on his right. I think the Judas theory comes from the Davinci painting of the last supper, where he appears to be seated second to Christ’s right. I don’t think Tuomas associates himself with Judas, as he is the one feeling betrayed by others, not the betrayer. More likely, in my opinion, it is the penitent thief Tuomas empathizes with. Only Tuomas knows for sure.
Facts about this song and this amazing performance that are interesting for you to notice next time you see this video.
Lyrics begin with the boy saying the phrase "The end" and it ends with the boy saying "The beginning". The sweetest guitarist on the planet (Empu) is checking on Tuomas and he respond with a smile and probably with an "am ok" phrase. Tuomas said in an interview that it's really hard for him to perform this song and that's why they don't play it. He also said that the times they did he actually asked from the sound engineer to cut the vocals from his monitor, so he be able to play it without becoming very emotional. Almost midsong the boy sais "I only have three minutes...", If you check the time, it's exactly 3 minutes before the 'blade' fell upon him (check Tuomas hand movement). At the end of the song Marco and Empu are gathering near Tuomas to show him their support. There are tons of other things in this song of course but those was some 'highlights' from this performance. I'm glad you enjoyed it. Greetings from Greece 🤘
Fold-back vocals for Tuomas, here: th-cam.com/video/v65-ErfUyVM/w-d-xo.html
His complete thoughts on TPATP here: th-cam.com/video/v65-ErfUyVM/w-d-xo.html
Just before the start of Dark Passion Play, the child says "for years I have been strapped onto this altar", and after finishing that line you can hear the sound of a thick rope, like the kind used to moore ships, stretching and snapping. The boy got his wish: the waves snapped the ropes binding him to the altar and swept him into the darkness beneath the waves.
Nightwish Army UK popping in for an emotional reaction.
"I cannot cry because the shoulder cries more"- Tuomas couldn't lean on his bandmates because they were just as responsible as he was, even though most of the backlash was directed at him. You see Emppu go to him near the beginning, he asked Tuomas how he was doing, and you can see Tuomas say 'awesome'. At the end, both Emppu and Marko go him in a show of support. Floor looks over to him for a moment before saying 'thank you'.
"I cannot die ,I, a whore for the cold world"- Tuomas is committing suicide by song and not in real life. He still has more music in him to share with the world.
That 5th movement lyrics are some of the words Tuomas' mother said to him when he went home to his parents house.
Also I think Tarja once were his shoulder. They were very close friends. Before Marcelo. But yes, also other band members fit in that line 👍
Hehehe and that's why Tuomas never explains his lyrics, everyone reads something different in them. For me the shoulder that cries more were the fans, the public. They were crying harder than everyone else, while he needed them for support in the aftermat of having to fire his friend. That's also why he felt like a whore for the cold world, he felt raped by everyone getting on his case.
Tuomas got the majority of the hate but the decision to fire Tarja was unanimous and from what I heard came originally from Marko. In any way it lead to this masterpiece
@@littleraven28 Yes, there is many ways to look at it 😁👍
Thank you for this video!!!!
Not only am I a massive Nightwish/Floor Jansen (and Epica) freakfan, but I also happen to be a bi-polar autist with recedive depression and many other side effects to my story.
I applaud you for getting up and giving other people with mental health issues a voice who can not tell their own story without others shaming them for being different, anti-social or even telling them they are freaks.
This song strikes my heart again and again, because this describes depression so accurately for me: having two faces at the same time to hide your depression to the rest of the world.
Again: thank you for making your statement with this video.
I love Anette, the song needed to be done when it was, BUT only Floor articulates the feelings and emotion that Tuomas needed to unburden himself. It is a pity, from the point of view of a sublime artistic performance, but totally understandable that this may never be performed live again.
Maybe someday we will see a Nightwish performance with Marco as a guest. I would so love to hear Endlessness sung live at least once. If they did a special preforms with Marco, they could bring back so many songs for us. Ghost River. Romanticide. The Islander. While Your Lips are Still Red. Too many for me to think of right now, but it would be incredible to see.
Nice to see you´r back, or maby i myself has been lost? We Finns are a bit peculear/strange people. We wonn Icehockey and lost our mental health again, (in a positive way) Tuomas is like Mozart/Bethooven. Under this Covid stress Nightwish gave all their mony from selling x-tra fanthings to all their workers around them. Greetings from City of Vasa in Finland with Love
If I had only one thing anymore to show to my loved ones, it would be this song and performance. I have already showed to my mother and sisters Ghost Love Score and Shoemaker. Even that all of them don`t like metal at all, they understand feelings and messages. This is breathtaking, soul crushing, and in the end (The Beginning) Nightwish put you back together
Another great reaction to one of the three Nightwish masterpieces and one of the most personal for Tuomas and the fans. The soprano at the start is not Floor but a boy soprano. I love how Tuomas used the literary plot and lyrical elements from Poe's the Pit and the Pendulum as a vehicle for exploring his journey through the torment and depression the fans put him through. "i cannot cry cause the shoulder cries more" is Tuomas lamenting that he can't turn to his bandmates for emotional support because they are hurting as well. The Pacific section is Tuomas looking for a place of refuge and safety. Tuomas frequently identifies with the Ocean as a place of calm and comfort and often says he has an ocean soul (Dead Boy's Poem). In this section he refects on teh past and the good memories from teh beginning of teh band. One cool compositional element, in the spoken word section where the boy says "I only have three minutes and counting" it is then three minutes latter in the song where the pendulum descends and kills Tuomas as portrayed by Tuomas slashing his hand across his throat and then the heartbeat that slowly stops. The last movement, Mother and Father, uses words actually spoken to Tuomas by his parents during his recovery. Floor's delivery is just so emotionally powerful, melding the pain of loss with hope and encouragement for the future. Makes me tear up every time. As you can imagine this song is hard for Tuomas to perform and he has said that he often has the sound engineers cut the vocals from his in ears or he gets to emotional to play. This is why you see Empuu and Marko check on him during the performance and surround him with support at the end. One of the better in depth analysis I have read of this song is by Annika Hausen. annikahausen.com/2020/10/30/the-poet-and-the-pendulum/
Hey I'm bipolar as well & been really slogging through for 30 years.
This kinda makes me think of dead boy's poem "sing what you can't say, forget what you can't play". I'm glad Tuomas had this outlet
After hearing this composition (you can hardly call it a song) and shedding some tears, i got really curious about the backstory. So i looked it up, and holy damn!! I know a lot of people have these depressive issues in their lives, but the way Tuomas can translate those feelings into this is just….mindblowing! It took me almost half an hour to recuperate and being able to even say anything. The Mrs was frowning at me, asking why i was so down. I explained her a little about this backstory and showed her this. She broke in tears saying:” now i understand why”. I dont know if this is what it takes to be a member of the NW-army, and i am really new to this band, but damn, i cant stop listening to them. I started with GLS, Storytime and now this. I decided to soak in every song before hopping to the next. It honestly is a lot to take in, but i love them.
I bought tickets for the worlds collide tour with Within Temptation and Evanescence on Nov 30 in Amsterdam, and the day before NW plays there. Tried to find tickets but it is all sold out. I surely will go see them live at some point. For niw i love the reactions. Keep it up!
Thx for a great reaction 👍. I'm sure many of the guys and gals here really appreciate that you did your homework first...hence understanding the song and adding to your enjoyment of what is a true masterpiece of song writing...
Blimey, I could write a thesis about the background to this, and about the song itself, though I'm not going to get into it here. I'll just say, as regards The Pacific, that the ocean and water have always figured hugely in Tuomas's lyrics. It's his refuge, along with the forest, and The Meadows of Heaven. Pacific also means peace-loving, which may be an intentional metaphor.
The Pacific is also the largest ocean, most powerful and dangerous...prolly like his feelings at the time.
Not to forget that Tuomas chosen career before music was to become a marine biologist, something he has a deep interest for and hence the common references here and elsewhere to "an ocean soul".
We all read too much into Nightwish lyrics, but that's the whole purpose of poetry. Everybody's interpretation is equally as important, to me we are an inclusive community.
Dude!
We seriously do not need a breakdown of every "important" word.
Or how it relates to how he must have felt then, etc, etc.
WE'RE AWARE!
Great job!! Thank you so much for opening up about mental health. It’s so important that we create a safe space and bring awareness to it. Awesome reaction, as always! I really appreciate your interpretation of the song! 😎
Thank you so much for reading the letters and the lyrics beforehand. And also for having watched the video with subtitles. I think this is a great show of respect for the history of the band, with the older fans and also with your subscribers. Greetings from Brazil.
When I hear this song, I want to sweep Tuomas up into my arms and hug him. I can't imagine what a person would have to be feeling to essentially kill themselves in a song. I'm glad he did it this way, and not for real. The world would be a much darker place without Tuomas, Nightwish, and their incredible body of work. Tuomas has a wonderful mom who loves him and he doesn't need another one, but this song makes me want to protect him - which he does not need. He's moved on from his depression, married an amazing woman, and skyrocketed Nightwish to heights I'm sure even he never imagined. Obviously I've never met any of them, but they all seem to be very humble, down-to-earth people. They are very deserving of their good fortune, in my opinion. Their combined talent and hard work have taken them far.
I'm kind of sad that you missed the "three minutes and counting" reference in the middle of the song. After the lyrics say he has three minutes and counting, it's just a little over three minutes later when he "dies" in the song.
The next part I love so much may be just speculation by fans, but I hope we are right. At the very end of the song, both Emppu and Marco show their care for Tuomas by moving up to stand on the keyboard riser with him as the song fades out. It's such a beautiful show of solidarity and friendship, if we're interpreting it correctly. It shows us that this band is a rock-solid unit who will go to bat for each other. Despite the problems in their past, they will move forward together.
Of course, we did lose Marco a while back, but I don't think that had to do with any band animosity. Marco just couldn't stomach his treatment by the record label, promoters, money people... I really don't know because I don't understand the music business. But he was being treated badly, not by Nightwish, and he had to quit.
I like to say that Tuomas wears his heart on his sleeve through his music. This song is the best representation of that. Thank you for taking the time to listen and react to it. I think you understand them more than you think you do. Have you heard The Greatest Show on Earth yet? That one is another masterpiece. I look forward to your next videos.
Nightwish is one of the few bands that speak to my soul and make me feel, well that and David Gilmour's guitar solos :)
This song works every single time as does shoemaker and hits me to the core.
Toumas was going to call it quits, everyone hated him and he went back to his family where he felt unconditional love and no judgement to heal, we've all been in that place at one point or another.
'The End' said at the beginning of the song was the end of the Tarja era of the band, 'The Beginning' said at the end of the song symbolises a new beginning for the band for the next era.
I don't know what a Pokémon is, but play to win, Wally! Love what you're doing. As stigmas fade, it astonishes me how many ppl suffer from bipolar, like myself. I spent years untreated and misunderstood b4 the ACA gave me the lifeline of heath insurance.
Yes, you are saying his name correctly, Tuomas (pron: TOO-oh-Moss).
Thank you for a thoughtful and respectful reaction...and for waiting to fully embrace this. "I will always love you", were words from his mother.
Trivia: the soprano at the opening and the spoken word parts performed by Guy Elliott, a young boy.
And, during the performance of this song, Tuomas cuts the vocal feed to his in-ear monitors...even 10yrs later, too painful.
It is one of Tuomas great compositions which is very personal. Part of their, and especially Toumas healing process 🙂
Bipolar with depression faces....welcome to the club!
Much Love to you and Ukraine 🌻🌻🌻💙💛💙
Remember the lyric ‘now I have only three minutes and counting’. Look at what happens exactly three minutes later.
Only song I have ever cried with. And I didn't even know the back story then. It was just Floor's amazing performance that made me cry. And when I understood what was it about I cried even more!
Good analyce you have. Spot on. Greetings from Finland
I believe that "The Pacific" refers to suicidal ideation; the desire to simply sink into the depths and let the sea carry away all the pain. At one point Tuomas mentions waterfalls, but says that the beauty is "underneath" them; in the water. He asks to be "tucked in beneath the blue, beneath the pain, beneath the rain". He's asking to be "tucked in" for his eternal rest, beneath the blue of the ocean, beneath where his pain can reach him. The only way to get "beneath" the rain is to be fully submerged, after all.
I've read from people who have had suicidal thoughts that the ocean is appealing, to just sink down into the darkness beneath the waves and be enveloped in Nature's final embrace, almost like returning to the womb.
I believe that this is the meaning behind the section title of Pacific.
It is hard to like Poet exactly, so dark, so desperately dark - but it is a magnificent composition and this is a particularly excellent version (I don't think it will be performed live again).
It is also the best depiction, as a piece of performance art, of a mental health crisis. While I have no details in common with Tuomas, I understand the emotional journey portrayed her intimately - the chaos and storms inside, the different voices within arguing for destruction, the anger at yourself, at the world, the longing for relief (this is the "Pacific" chapter - it seems like a lullaby in tone but is speaking about death). Without the final element, of Floor taking the role of mother and bringing us all to shore safely, I think I'd find this performance too much to ever watch again.
As it stands, I don't usually make it past a desperate man's cry of "save me" without just losing it. I honestly believe the potential was there for us to have lost this remarkable man, this remarkable talent. What a tragedy it would have been.
Floor's performance is masterful, as expected. The one thing she does that really is a game changer, technical excellence aside, is that she embodies the music as a storyteller. I don't know there is a term for it exactly, but it is often like she becomes a conduit for artistic and narrative intent and not just music. The way she uses her hands, the expressions and motions. I cannot explain it but good grief is it mermerising to watch.
I think you have the basic meaning of this song very well understood Wally! To continue on in the same manner made Tuomas feel like he was whoring himself and his hard work for the money. A change had to be made for him to continue his dream.
Also keep in mind that the up and down pace of this song is inspired by the mental process & journey from anger, to disappointment, acceptance of death, and back to mental stress and chaos. As portrayed in the famous Edgar Allen Poe horror story "The Pit and the Pendulum".
Did you catch what happened at exactly 3 minutes and counting? Whoosh!!!!!!!!!!
2nd robber to the right of Christ - Dismas, the good thief - the innocent one
Cut in half infanticide - Tuomas plans to kill a part of his soul - the child part
IMHO - Floor's crying lament at the end is for the childlike part of Tuomas' soul which needed to be severed and killed off, allowing Tuomas to move forward with the next incarnation of his dream of Nightwish.
The journey of each of our lives, from birth to death is a constant struggle to hold onto our childhood innocence. Don't be afraid to try new things, embrace adventure, and the zest for living each day with the myriad of possibilities it hold for each of us. Never grow up in your heart, even though the responsibilities and realities of adulthood must be accepted. Don't let it crush your inner spirit!
Great job Wally.
Strength to you during those dark times my friend. many of us deal with this throughout our lives. 🙏
Sir WallyTheBandit, mental heath is an absolutely important topic, which to me should be brought froward in YT videos and in general. This one from Nightwish is a tale of Tuomas circling the drain with his ultimate aim of ending himself. He stops at a momentous conversation with his mother, and writes this song instead.
My heart goes out to you, bipolar disease can be hard to manage. I only suffer from (not saying because I write under my real name). Even with professional support and medication it's no joke.
Dark Passion Play album is really dark and angry. Tuomas didn't give a shhhh and put everything out there. You could react to:
Master Passion Greed (song is direct FU to Marcelo. There are only album version)
Bye Bye Beautiful (no explanations needed)
"Pre-orders for Dark Passion Play had it certified gold in Finland before it had even been released. The album debuted at number one in 6 European countries, selling over 100,000 copies in Finland (triple platinum). In February 2008, the album was certified quadruple-platinum in Finland, after having sold over 120,000 copies, which makes it one of the 40 best-selling albums of all time in the country. Worldwide, Dark Passion Play has sold almost 2 million copies since its release."
"In 2016, an article by Teamrock considers Dark Passion Play as one of the "best albums of this century", ranking it at number 60 on their countdown of the "21st century's greatest albums""
Kinda funny how things went on after the criticism.
Keep on exploring NW and other Finnish music . Greetings from Finnish Lapland. Keep safe and healthy 👍
Guylain Prince OFM did a remarkable breakdown / analysis of the lyrics to this song. i highly recommend checking out his youtube channel. there is so much in this song to unpack.
He goes deeeep into the lyrics.
The beginning is the end, the end is the beginning. 🤟
Respect to Ville Lipiäinen or whoever produced this show (and all the others) Nightwish have the best live videos on TH-cam 👌
There are no right or wrong in your understanding or rather interpretation of this song. It's a story about a deep personal depression - the course of the depression is not necessarily very important, because it is only a trigger.
The Pacific / ocean Tuomas often uses - could easily be a description of something that big that it contains myriads of everything, known and unknown - emotions, facts, thoughts, lies, ideas, rumors etc etc. He also talks about the Universe as an ocean...
The whole situation about Tarja being fired, and all the stupidity before and afterwards - is an ocean of mixed emotions, actions, lies, dreams etc etc.
Floor is doing an incredible job of telling this story.
It's a genuine masterpiece - meant to be felt from you own experiences in life, so you can relate to the feelings and emotions..
Pacific...Pacific Ocean. Passive, peaceful. Portuguese explorer Magellan called the ocean pacífico (“peaceful”) (in c. 1519) because, after sailing through the stormy seas off Cape Horn, the expedition found calm waters.
It’s interesting. Tarja and the the rest of the member were on different paths. Tarja felt she should pursue a solo career separate from Nightwish. At the time she didn’t prioritize Nightwish vs her solo career. Of course, when onstage she was wonderful because she is a wonderful singer. I also think there was miscommunication and misunderstanding between Tarja and the Nightwish band members. Tarja probably felt the band would be there for her while she needed it.
Compare to how Floor is pursuing her solo career Floor has learned to communicate with Nightwish to make sure she she is there for them such whatever practice sessions and commitment to tour schedules. Obviously, I don’t know behind the scenes of how Floor is working with the band and the whole Nightwish organization but they seem to support Floor’s solo endeavors. So learning from the past experiences has occurred. Plus, Floor is friend of Tarja’s as well.
I may be a bit biased, as I have not been spared from the topic of depression myself and can all too well relate to the thoughts that go through one's head on some dark days. The original song with Anette already got under my skin, but what it became with Floor on the mic and the whole performance around it turned it into a masterpiece for me that is second to none. I can easily count on one hand the number of songs I know that can convey such a rollercoaster ride of emotions in such a brilliant way.
___________________
「 _"完璧なんてありえない" / Perfection? No one gets there._ 」 --- from BAND-MAID 'Warning' 🕊
Onion ninjas everytime.... Thankyou for your reaction to this masterpiece
Did you recognise when the speakin of rape and 3 minutes counting. Count 3 minutes and Tuomas makes his suicide aprox from this text. Thats a master of making music and thank good R alive.
As I have commented many times before about this song, this is Tuomas' the most impressive song ever and oh what a Nightwish song of his 🤘❤
It got to the stage where Tarja refused to travel with the rest of the band, wouldn't rehearse with them, couldn't see the point of playing smaller venues, and announced she was leaving after the next album. They really didn't want to fire her but she left them with little choice. Thankfully it worked out well for all concerned in the end.
The shoulder was the rest of the band, he had to be strong for everyone else because of the back lash from the fans they where afraid this could be the end of the band that he'd put his/their heart in to, it's always been about the music for them God bless the end was what his parents said to him
I always though the shoulder were the fans, the public, they were crying harder and more than he himself. At a time when he needed their support in the aftermath of firing his long time friend, he could not turn to them. He felt like a whore for the cold world, cause he felt raped. He got the whole load of sh*t over him while the decision was made by all.
Listen good to the song your can feel your happy and also gulty wat we maken from the world as human .
I too suffer from depression and have learned not to try and beat it but to learn to live with it. Here if anyone needs to chat. You're not alone. Never suffer in silence. Greetings from County Durham, England. Jay.xx
LOve you words at the begining.
beauty reaction..this song is the Tuomas.soul...is a genious composer..Floor is sublime and Marco is amazing powerful voice.
For a song dealing with teenage bipolar by a stellar songwriter, check out ‘Fear of a Blank Planet’ by Porcupine Tree and written by the amazing Steven Wilson.
The Poet and the Pendulum was written after firing Tarja the original singer. She was the face of Nightwish at the time, and Tuomas considered her a muse to many of the songs he had written at that point. They had also grown up in the same city and knew each other since early childhood. All the band members decided together to fire her for acting too much of a diva. According to all the band members, Tarja was missing lots of rehearsals and would not even travel with the band anymore. Tuomas was painted as the devil by many fans, and went through a deep dark depression. He even considered ending the band and committing suicide. He wrote The Poet and the Pendulum at that time, and actually kills himself in the song. He said he killed himself in the song, as to not do it in real life. To this day every time he plays it, it takes him back to those feelings, and shows on his face. In the last part, Mother and Father, words are sung to him that his real mother said to him at that time of his deep depression. One part that touches me at the end when the guitarist Emppu and bassist Marko, the only other two involved with firing Tarja (that were still active with the band)were standing with Tuomas at the end in solidarity and love.
The End. The Beginning 🔥❤️🙏🏻🇫🇮
I'm so grateful Tuomas did not give in to his depression and found a creative outlet to get it out of his system.
We have been given 17 more years of his genius music because his family & certain friends showed him compassion, allowing him to weather the negative storms that surrounded him by critics and haters.
The hate he received was really uncalled for as Tarja was leaving Nightwish the following year anyway. She had announced that.
I found it blatantly unfair in that respect - it's not like they let her go when she was still committed to the band. It was purely a backlash of making public the reasons for the dismissal, however, the way the press was used, they knew if they did not get their side out it could be twisted.
A lot of the issues they started having was her putting her new solo career ahead of what they still needed to do to finish the touring her last album. Such an unfortunate end to an Era- the title so Apt.
🤩👌💥💯
"The end......... The beginning"
And Helluwa Lot in between Wally!
🤘😎🇫🇮💙
Don't over-analyze, just feel the song
As the great Neil Peart wrote, "Fool that I was".
There's also a early demo recording of this with just Marco performing all the lyrics himself. Here - th-cam.com/video/2oECYCV5-5w/w-d-xo.html
I often reference this and it would be good to see someone react. Wally maybe?
@@NickBR57 I'm almost positive that I've seen at least a couple of reaction videos of Marko's version.
@@L3onOfKings I must seek them out. I've not come across them. Thanks for the inspiration to search again 👍
You missed Toumas's suicide. Mother and father, throughout the song Empuu and Marco check in on Toumas, and at the end, but seeing Marco, Floor and Empuu sitting on Kai's drum stage, seeing Toumas alone always chokes me. Floors final, soft, "thank you" makes me sob.
Hug Hug. Just keep well Brother. :)
Just deleted the comment I was making - last time I stated something regarding this I got attacked for having an opinion. And the sad thing was I could see both sides. Lets just say the situation got so bad and Tuomas was so upset and conflicted that he couldn't fire her in person but had to do it in a letter.
The depression wasn’t as much with Tarja leaving, it went on long enough, at that point it was more anger, dealing with this fifth wheel, & her seemingly changing, certainly we all grieve lost relationships, but the “ depression” was the ongoing battle with the public, media, where everyone thought you were the best writer, band, a genius, & I expect he thought it might be all over , at least as they knew it. The band was aligned, they dealt with as one has to any toxic work place situation. Eventually it has to end, to restore it. Everyone probably has been through something like that, as working is such a huge part of our lives, but he was saying he couldn’t cry with his buds over his stuff, because “the shoulder/the band cries more”. This is Tuomas story. He tried to carry his stuff. The split is loving the music, life of the band, but whore for the cold world... caring, wanting to please those forces, ...... media, fans, the chaos of surviving it all, & he desperately cares. Next is Master Passion Greed, there you get the anger at the interloper, & it is awesome. Never played live, someone put giant words over the official copy, it is easy to read, hard to understand it all without lyrics, if you want to use it. I use it to listen to. Love hearing Marko rage! 🤘🔥💥 “I will always love you” is his mother speaking to him in the coming “home” section, as she advises him he has the resources within, & maybe that was the birth of dealing with this whole thing in song, because that is what Tuomas does. Love this “feeling man”!
Respect!!! Keep up the good work!
Just don't call Tuomas Kevin. He hates that. (-;
Good one.
Thank you for nice reaction to an incredable song! I suggest you listening to Indian street metal band Bloodywood, song Jee Verey. This is a song about mental illness. It has saved many lifes (you can see it from the comments under the song). Greetings from Denmark!
🤗🍒👍🏻
it is NOT about losing a bandmember, it is about ultimate BETRAYEL, media and fans backlash even Finnish politicians blaming Tuomas. It's way more than losing hischildhood friend Tarja. If you listen to master passion GREED (about Tarja's husband and manager, Marcello) and bye bye beautiful (about Tarja) you will understand.
Right, seen the title. This is my No 1 so I hope you have done the research. We shall see... 🍿
Well, you got almost all of it. What a work.
The "I will always love you" was part of Mother and Father. Tuomas went back home for a while and it is said this quotes things his mother said to him that helped him come through his depression.
It always leaves me speechless for a few minutes.
His depression
🎵🎵👍👍🇳🇱🤘🤘🎵💕
I play Pokémon GO, does that count? LOL
"The poet and the pendulum" is from Anette's time. It was released on the album Dark Passion Play (2007), the group's sixth. According to Tuomas this song was the way he found to deal with the depression after Tarja's departure. The band received a lot of hatred from all over the world. They lost a lot of fans. I'm going to summarize the story for you to understand why people's reaction was so negative.
Tarja's resignation was a very dramatic episode. The relationship between her and the band had been bad for some time, so at the end of 2004 she decided to tell the band that she would leave. The idea was to record one last album and go on a farewell tour. She wanted to announce her decision to the public and prepare fans for the vocalist change, however, Tuomas convinced her not to do so at the time.
It turns out that, after that meeting, the band planned a public firing on the sly. They delivered a letter to Tarja at the end of the "End of an era" show and posted it on the band's website the next day. The band made several accusations against Tarja and her husband. It was a scandal.
In response, Tarja wrote a letter and held a press conference to respond better to the group's accusations. Her husband also spoke. He answered more than 150 questions from fans around the world and posted the answers on the internet.
Given the reports that were brought and other available records, including videos and documentaries, a large part of the fan base revolted against the band. Faced with criticism from different sides, Tuomas fell into a depression and wrote "The poet and the pendulum" as a way of dealing with the situation.
Some say that Tuomas suffered from unrequited love for Tarja. This feeling would have been the fuel for the composition of some songs. The question of Tuomas' love for Tarja is actually an old theory of fans. This theory was built even before Tarja's dismissal, and is based on old interviews and on the lyrics that Tuomas used to write.
The idea of the existence of unrequited love was strengthened when Marcelo himself (Tarja's husband) spoke about the subject in the responses he gave to fans. See these answers:
"36) Many people say that everything this happened because
he Tuomas felt something for the Tarja and this feeling was not corresponded. It was the impression that passed. This can be answered? Or not?
Heluza Mercaus Viegas Brazil
I promised that everything was going to be answered.
To cut a long story short, in October 2004 I needed to ask Tuomas to come to talk to Tarja and me in our hotel room in the middle of the tour.
Even though he knows Tarja many years before me, he never could achieve his goal.
In this meeting I clearly told him that his chances to be with Tarja were gone.
I needed to tell him that there was no reason to keep on trying any longer, since I married her.
As usual he didn't speak much, but he said to me that nobody was going to be able to stop his love for Tarja.
After this unhappy meeting, everything changed.
The guy that until then said in interviews that, without Tarja, that would be the end of Nightwish, changed his message into: Nightwish is my band, my music, my lyrics, the scenery of my soul.
Is up to you to check all interviews from the band before and after end of 2004 until today.
Tarja never changed her thoughts about her position in the band.
She has never mentioned that Nightwish was her band or that she was more important than the other band members.
Nightwish lyrics are Tuomas' life diary, as it has been said. With this new information that I am sharing with you, please check once again some of them. We all can find amazing songs with beautiful lyrics full of poetry. Their meaning won't remain that uncertain any longer.
37) Was Tarja in any romance/love way with Tuomas (he seems jelouice to me).
Mariela Todoroviè Slovenia
Tarja never had any romance nor was ever in love with him.
I have received many questions accusing Tuomas of being jealous, envious, bitter and of being in love. I have no interest in making any judgement about those things and people's feelings.
Other people than Tuomas also told me how much they love Tarja. There are many different levels of love and I have no problems with any of them as long as reasonable limits are not exceeded.
Is funny if you carefully check the cover of End of an Era (that Tarja didn't propose, but accepted).
You will find what seems to be an angel (Tarja's nickname in the official forum of her web page) and a demon or god. Only these two characters dominate the scene. I couldn't find any other characters in the cover at all.
They are standing facing away from each other.
Between them there is turmoil and a strong light, whether striking into or coming out of a cracked heart.
It is definitely not Tarja's heart. Her heart is very healthy and full of love, because she has always listened to it (instead of me); as Tuomas advised her to do in the open letter.
The title of the scene is "Nightwish - End of an Era".
You can make your own conclusions. I am merely describing a DVD cover
157) What were, in your opinion, the real motives for Tarja Turunen to be out of Nightwish?
¿Cuáles fueron, en tu opinión, los verdaderos motivos de la salida de Tarja Turunen de Nightwish? Marta Perez Spain
I think we will never know the real motives. Motives rest in Tuomas, some close people and band members' hearts. Seems there has been at least very strong motives to kick out Tarja, specially the way they did it.
Some of them might be the mentioned cultural differences that band members have in their minds and hearts with me, the non corresponded love from Tuomas to Tarja, Tarja's values that didn't match Tuomas and Tarja's maturity that didn't match Tuomas and the others, not compatible life styles between band members, different concept of friendship and responsibilities that comes with it, different approach to record business, the obvious problem to communicate within the band; just to name a few."
The depression itself and the song "The poet and the pendulum" can, in theory, be read as a reflection of this love drama. Regardless of whether this theory about Tuomas is true or not, the fact is that bringing internal issues to the public was the worst choice. A lot of the band's past has been brought up and no one has come out unscathed. Because of the scandal, Tarja lost some fans and contracts for her solo career. On the other hand, the band also lost fans and had little-known events brought to a wider audience. For example, Tarja suffered an attempted sexual abuse in the middle of a concert in Guadalajara in 2000.
At the time, the band continued playing as if nothing had happened, even after Tarja left the stage along with the criminal and the security guards. There are videos of the episode here on TH-cam. Later, after Tarja left, the band itself mentioned the event in its official biography.
The way the band decided to fire Tarja and the facts of the past that were brought to public knowledge infuriated many fans. To get a sense of how big the fan base was in the past, look at the number of views of the first videos with Anette ("Bye, bye, beautiful" and "Amaranth"). These numbers are representative of the fan base situation at the end of Tarja's period and beginning of Anette.
The first album with Anette was the band's first album ever released with TH-cam ever running. We were all curious to know who the new singer was and what she sounded like. Unfortunately Anette didn't please a large part of the original fan base, which also contributed to the band losing more fans. Anette and Floor helped to attract a different audience and reconfigure the fan base. Some old fans have returned with the entry of Floor. She is nothing new to us. For example, I've known her since her first band, After Forever. Here are some sources:
Resignation letter written by the band: nightwish.fandom.com/wiki/Open_Letter_to_Tarja_Turunen
Tarja's press conference after the dismissal, in full:
th-cam.com/video/ATDFinGZ8D8/w-d-xo.html
Marcelo's detailed response to questions sended by Nightwish fans at the dismissal
epoque: www.tuomasholopainen.fora.pl/wywiady-artykuly,29/odpowiedzi-marcelo-na-pytania-fanow-czerwiec-2006,455.html
Letter written by Tarja: nightwish.fandom.com/wiki/Open_Letter_from_Tarja_Turunen
A snippet from the book "Once Upon a Nightwish" detailing the abuse incident -
fromwishestoeternity.tumblr.com/post/111177476493/alfaangel-i-just-put-together-some-facts-about/amp
The video of the abuse incident: th-cam.com/video/3bj4h1807kY/w-d-xo.html
Look for the 3 minutes sentence and thsn play forwards 3 minutes
listen to grace vanderwaal darkness keeps chasing me live or studio wally
sorry, you can't pause so much a song like this...
Sorry dude the pauses are too much. No hate.
Tell me - do you read 3 chapters of a book and decide how to interperate it ? Do yourself a favour and LISTEN AND WATCH , You won't find a better track in the Nightwish cannon. By the way Pacific had two meanings.
This song has NOTHING to do with "Mental Illness" ! Ugh ! no need to conflate , it's simply about a depressive reaction to the harsh backlash from fans & media post Tarja.
what's your problem? you haven't had a nice thing to say for so long i don't even know why you're still here. every video i see you saying something crappy in the comments
You are surely clueless on this subject if you believe what you just posted. Depression and thoughts of suicide and self harm and hating yourself is definitely a form of mental illness.
Does Tuomas suffer from those problems today? I believe he doesn't, which means at the time he wrote this he was mentally ill from the trauma of it all. Today he is healed and doesn't think like that anymore.
In short, he suffered from 'mental illness'.
What is so difficult about that to understand?
Depression is a form of mental illness. It's also not "simply" about a "depressive reaction", that's very much not doing the song, nor the state of mind when it was written any justice. There is nothing simple about this composition.
@@domesticatedpanda no one said the composition was "simple" but depression ,something most "everyone" experiences at one time or another is not a mental illness,and I am sure Tuomas would be insulted by the inference.
@@L3onOfKings shows how little so many think they actually know, Tuomas has said in his own words that he actually never considered "actual suicide"