Generally 90 degrees is bad for fluid flow. So that's generally why it's not done. It taxes the pump and reduces flow rate, leading to less reliable operation and worsened cooling
@@yurilopes420 Nvidia first intended to make 4000 on Samsung inferior 7/8nm node with target of 600w, then they got tsmc bidding and changed plans. they again tried 600 w on tsmc's node but that failed. so they made over-engieered coolers
Nice review. That's the model I like the most. It's worth noting that having two bios's isn't just about having one be "better" in some way or even just different from the other one. It's nice to have two bios's because if something goes wrong with one of them, your card isn't bricked, and you can use the other one to fix/flash the other one.
standardizing gpu AIOs is inevitable, they cannot scale with air to the demands of the increases in power each gen, the 4090 heatsink is as big as you can reasonably make
Typically with the last couple generation MSI cards that have the BIOS switch, the only difference between the game/OC profile and the silent profile is the fan speeds, not the power limits or GPU clocks.
This card is just gorgeous. I really don't like the design of the majority of the partner cards for the 4090 and even Nvidia's isn't that good. This one stands out to me though and I think it looks sick.
He benched it, it performs pretty much the exact same as FE even with an OC. The benefits are slightly better fitting depending on the case, lower temp, lower noise, etc
It seems like overclocking is kind of pointless with these cards to begin with because of the voltage locks. You're talking about 5% performance increase?
Insane??? Depends on what you're comparing it to. If you're comparing it to other 4090s then no the differences across all of them are pretty small and you certainly won't notice those while playing. It's the cooling, noise level and size that matter.
I have this card with the rad mounted as top exhaust on my 011 and one thing I have noticed it just how fast idle temps are achieved after use, it's within seconds. Looks pretty nice vertically mounted as well.
Same case here! Where do you put your CPU radiator with this configuration? I have my CPU radiator on the same side as the motherboard and then regular case fans on the bottom and top of the case. My GPU is air-cooled. Also congrats on getting this card , enjoy it!
@@adamadam6351 Sound like the exact same setup position. Before the extra rad I had x3 fans on the top all as exhaust, 3 on the floor side as intake, 1 on the back as exhaust and the 360 with 3 fans on the side between the mobo and front glass. The CPU rad hasn't changed position.
This is the only one that I'm currently interested in. I've seen it going for 2,400 USD on ebay as of October 2022, but for sure this is the way I wanna do it.
I bought this card today based on this video! I liked that it was only 280mm which is only 23mm more than my current card. I have a NZXT 510 Flow case so I don't have any room to spare, lol. Thank you for much a thorough review!!
I have it and let me say it is absolutely worth it. I can max out any game and easily run it at 120 plus fps. If you overclocked it you can max out anything at 240 fps and stay under 42 degrees celsius
still loving it? i’m trying to decide which 4090 to get, and would like to liquid cool it in a similar fashion to my cpu without doing a crazy custom loop, and this seems like the way to go
that +480w power draw really hits you the feels. every minute gaming i would be thinking about that. and my pc is on for more than 8 hours some days. wish there was a way to turn the GPU off completely and automatically switch to cpu graphics.
Ali talking about $1600 4090s like he doesn’t live in Australia like us where they’re $3,000 lmao. Love ya work, mate. Been enjoying your videos the last couple years
one small gripe, I may have misunderstood you, but this was NOT the first aio gpu to come from MSI. They did a very similar looking variant for the gtx 1080 and If wrong on that then it was definately one of the 10 series gpu's at any rate. True it was a partnership with corsair, but I feel it should count. edit: Just looked it up and the name was the GeForce GTX 1080 SEA HAWK X. It has both the corsair and MSI logo on it.
Looks like MSI watched your video, and took notes on the "good value for what you get" part. They bumped up the sale price on their own website by 185$. God forbid gamers have access to good value on GPUs these days. Edit: looks like they "unlaunched" their price hike after backlash...
Hate how AIBs have "normal" cards for MSRP, then (in 4090 pricing) +$200-500AUD for the "OC" version, which adds SFA performance. And of course, local retailers were out of stock of the normal cheap versions, some still have stock of the OC versions of course for higher money. Atlest the "gaming" versions provide better cooling so can run quieter (usually)
8:30 I top mounted mine and flipped the fans around to the other side of the rad as well - I found that pushing through the rad wasn't effectively evacuating the heat from the case, but that the fans pulling the heat through and up/away from the top was very successful. I'm using a Corsair 5000D with 7 fans drawing fresh air front and side. 13900k with Corsair 150 AIO, running temps are usually well within the 40-50 degree range on both CPU and GPU spiking around 60ish. (idle is 20-30)
Waterforce is a total crap-fest. Quality is horrible, people have reported scratches and such on new products, as well as very poor leak detection rendering the card unable to do anything. Anyhow, the cooling performance for the gpu on the MSI card is probably better because the aio is dedicated just to the gpu, whilst other components are air cooled. Also the SUPRIM series is the highest quality PCB and best looking (imo) on the market. Great review!
I'm sure the pump won't fail that easily, talking from experience never had one fail on me ever. But your miles may vary. Also if it fails warranty is there or just replace the pump yourself since they aren't that expensive.
The memory is liquid cooled. I wouldn't worry about the temperatures. The video showed the memory junction temps of the founders card and the Suprim Hybrid being about the same during furmark.
Just one of these days, we'll be hanging up our PC on the outside of the house, just to keep the patio from icing over... Thanks for the review, much appreciated.
Hey Ali, thanks for mentioning the real world width of this card. This is literally the only 4090 that will fit in the Phanteks Shift XT that I intend to build in (> 3 slot, 240mm rad). Seeing as you are the only person I know of that has both the mentioned card and case, do you happen to have tried fitting the card in the Shift XT and does the width clear the top or do the tubes actually make it incompatible? Thank you.
What's going on with the memory temps of this particular model? All the reviews I've seen have the VRAM running hotter than all air cooled cards! Great video and analysis, as always, thanks for the high quality content you provide!
It runs hotter, but not to an alarming degree. Shouldn't be an issue unless you're just comparing directly to other cards. The blower design here just isn't as good as other flow through designs. The one benefit though is that the exhaust is directly exiting the case rather than heating up the inside.
Barely any reason? Better cooling, lower noise level and higher availability are all reasons to get an AIB card. Where I live it's simply impossible to get an FE card.
Hola, es muy importante tener en cuenta el calor extra de la Foundation que genera estando dentro de una caja, por muy refrigerada que este la caja, siempre sera mejor la que expulsa directamente el aire caliente hacia afuera
erm msi have been doing AIO cooling on cards for years, they partnered with Corsair, the msi cards were called seahawk. and you could actually buy the cards direct from corsair
I find it hilarious that the PCB hasn't physically gotten any bigger - it's actually SMALLER than most 20-series cards used to be. It's just the cooling requirements are ridiculous nowadays. I'm actually kind of impressed that AIB manufacturers haven't melted the PCBs with all that heat and current going through them.
Nice video! Can’t wait for your list of cases for the 4090. Also any idea what’s a good case for the evga 3090ti with an aio? Lastly, what resolution are you recording the videos? When I watch it on my 65” OLED, it seems stretched vertically making you look skinny.
Essentially any case that's optimized for airflow and has the space for the GPU and AIO would work just fine. Most reputable case manufacturers will list their maximum internal dimensions on their product page.
Brilliant video and great to see one in the wild. How much shorter is the card in this cooling design setup? Was thinking if shorter it might go into my case and mount the rad block outside (as go no space in my case for that :-( )
I have been pleasantly surprised by the 4070ti. Lords of the fallen lies of p and starfield all look amazing i have been wanting to get the 4090 and this would be nice if they would sell it at msrp.
Scammers on Amazon are mass buying 4090 cards and selling them anywhere from $2,300 to $3,500. Which sucks but you can find some people on eBay selling them for cheaper.
Any idea on their future repairability? For example, early AIO GPUs, like the R9 Fury X, are mostly useless now because of coolant evaporation, pump issues, etc., and there's no way to actually repair them.
I'm just amused to see the difference of another almost 900 MHz clock speed on the 4090 vs the 1.815 stated clock speed of my 3080 12gb (my 3080 does still boost to about 2 GHz if I let it, but I have it set to run between 1.7-1.8 to keep it cool). +1 GHz faster clock speed in one generation newer seems impressive.
closed loop AIO are the way to go, i have the 1080ti ftw3 hybrid and i never get passed 60c hitting 1974mhz @ 300 TGP, ill get the 4090 someday but im still rocking FPS with my 1080ti i like most dont have money to burn.
Watching this like I'm ever gonna afford it
in 3 years it's gonna be $700 max
give it 7-10 years bro
Watching this like the scalpers are ever going to stop buying all of them
@@alksdng97834y i might be dead by then who knows i dont got that kind of time
watching this like it's mine
They definitely should have been put 90 degrees adapters on tubes exiting from the card
cable mod is working on it apparently
@@sopcannon Note: tubes
I haven't heard of replacing AIO tubes, but cablemod is definitely working on the 90° 16-pin cable adapter
Yes the positioning of the tubes exiting from the card is just awkward if you mount it horizontally, vertically though it works just fine.
Generally 90 degrees is bad for fluid flow. So that's generally why it's not done. It taxes the pump and reduces flow rate, leading to less reliable operation and worsened cooling
i mounted the rad to the front of my case blowing out and then keep my side panel off
MSI used to have AIO cooled GPU, called SeaHawk series
Yes, i think this is their first time under Suprim series.
They made a RTX 3080 which is still an excellent second hand option even today
Realistically, this card is one of the few 4090s that fits an ITX format. This generation of cards are just too big
Call it "developed for tards w money"
I don't even get why they're so fucking big, the pcb is the same size..
@@yurilopes420 They draw much more power that needs to be dissipated. The cooling solutions are (mainly) why these cards are so thick.
@@yurilopes420 COOLING
@@yurilopes420 Nvidia first intended to make 4000 on Samsung inferior 7/8nm node with target of 600w, then they got tsmc bidding and changed plans. they again tried 600 w on tsmc's node but that failed. so they made over-engieered coolers
Nice review. That's the model I like the most. It's worth noting that having two bios's isn't just about having one be "better" in some way or even just different from the other one. It's nice to have two bios's because if something goes wrong with one of them, your card isn't bricked, and you can use the other one to fix/flash the other one.
bioses*
Biosi?
Symbiosis
*Bice (Mouse/Mice!?) :)
Biosees
i feel like we are going back to the era of liquid cooled gpu solutions for power hungry cards
Yes
But the 4090 fe got good thermals 62c at 38 dba
There's literally 1 card water cooled out of all of em
standardizing gpu AIOs is inevitable, they cannot scale with air to the demands of the increases in power each gen, the 4090 heatsink is as big as you can reasonably make
@@DTunezOfficial 2 watch the video
Excited to see the build with the new ITX case 👀
Good to keep you warm in the winter.
An in-case thermal comparison would be nice
Typically with the last couple generation MSI cards that have the BIOS switch, the only difference between the game/OC profile and the silent profile is the fan speeds, not the power limits or GPU clocks.
This card is just gorgeous. I really don't like the design of the majority of the partner cards for the 4090 and even Nvidia's isn't that good. This one stands out to me though and I think it looks sick.
We love your videos, Optimum
The performance potential on this must be INSANE
Price tag too.
Ye it pretty good
He benched it, it performs pretty much the exact same as FE even with an OC. The benefits are slightly better fitting depending on the case, lower temp, lower noise, etc
It seems like overclocking is kind of pointless with these cards to begin with because of the voltage locks. You're talking about 5% performance increase?
Insane??? Depends on what you're comparing it to. If you're comparing it to other 4090s then no the differences across all of them are pretty small and you certainly won't notice those while playing. It's the cooling, noise level and size that matter.
rtx 3000 and rtx 4000 don't oc properly as they are running near max limits already. not much headroom
This would work well in the 011 case GPU side mounted exhaust. CPU top exhaust. Intakes bottom and front. No hot air in case then.
the prices i'm seeing for the 4090's are fricken insane. i used to love building pc's, but greed has killed all my passion for it.
Or just… buy used lmao
I know i ll probably get a lot of hate but..... it s actually worth it... playing 150+ fps on 4k is no small feat.
@@kidzor16 that part. Add a 77 inch 120hz 4k OLED display you're ballin
you put so much effort in your videos
love your work
you deserve more
I have this card with the rad mounted as top exhaust on my 011 and one thing I have noticed it just how fast idle temps are achieved after use, it's within seconds. Looks pretty nice vertically mounted as well.
cpu also water-cooled? if yes then where is its radiator, front or sides? also both radiators are set as exhaust right?
Same case here! Where do you put your CPU radiator with this configuration?
I have my CPU radiator on the same side as the motherboard and then regular case fans on the bottom and top of the case. My GPU is air-cooled.
Also congrats on getting this card , enjoy it!
@@adamadam6351 Sound like the exact same setup position. Before the extra rad I had x3 fans on the top all as exhaust, 3 on the floor side as intake, 1 on the back as exhaust and the 360 with 3 fans on the side between the mobo and front glass.
The CPU rad hasn't changed position.
Got this 4090 mounted in an 011 top exhaust vertical mounts as well. Loving it!
I am used 1080 Sea Hawk X pretty some time and I think MSI's hybrid cards like this pretty nice!
Been waiting for 4090 LC reviews. Can't wait to compare this to Asus & Gigabyte LC
the first reviewer to look at OC performance of the MSI Suprim Liquid X. Thank you for doing that.
This is the only one that I'm currently interested in. I've seen it going for 2,400 USD on ebay as of October 2022, but for sure this is the way I wanna do it.
I wouldn't buy from scalpers on eBay if you can avoid it.
was looking for something on this card thanks!
I bought this card today based on this video! I liked that it was only 280mm which is only 23mm more than my current card. I have a NZXT 510 Flow case so I don't have any room to spare, lol. Thank you for much a thorough review!!
Hmm is it possible to swap out the radiator fans on this?
I have it and let me say it is absolutely worth it. I can max out any game and easily run it at 120 plus fps. If you overclocked it you can max out anything at 240 fps and stay under 42 degrees celsius
still loving it? i’m trying to decide which 4090 to get, and would like to liquid cool it in a similar fashion to my cpu without doing a crazy custom loop, and this seems like the way to go
that +480w power draw really hits you the feels. every minute gaming i would be thinking about that. and my pc is on for more than 8 hours some days. wish there was a way to turn the GPU off completely and automatically switch to cpu graphics.
Ali talking about $1600 4090s like he doesn’t live in Australia like us where they’re $3,000 lmao. Love ya work, mate. Been enjoying your videos the last couple years
one small gripe, I may have misunderstood you, but this was NOT the first aio gpu to come from MSI. They did a very similar looking variant for the gtx 1080 and If wrong on that then it was definately one of the 10 series gpu's at any rate. True it was a partnership with corsair, but I feel it should count.
edit:
Just looked it up and the name was the GeForce GTX 1080 SEA HAWK X. It has both the corsair and MSI logo on it.
I thought the same thing
Bro thanks for even testing fps and db sound - you’re the best reviewer!!
Getting it as soon as they restock
Looks like MSI watched your video, and took notes on the "good value for what you get" part. They bumped up the sale price on their own website by 185$.
God forbid gamers have access to good value on GPUs these days.
Edit: looks like they "unlaunched" their price hike after backlash...
Hate how AIBs have "normal" cards for MSRP, then (in 4090 pricing) +$200-500AUD for the "OC" version, which adds SFA performance.
And of course, local retailers were out of stock of the normal cheap versions, some still have stock of the OC versions of course for higher money.
Atlest the "gaming" versions provide better cooling so can run quieter (usually)
Yep. I can't notice the performance increase with OC cards, but I sure can hear them, lol
Very clean looks love the functional design
Always great to watch you review stuff. no bs, straight to the point.
I would love to see the review of the Gigabyte 4090 360 AIO version and see how it compares to this MSI 4090 AIO GPU. Please.
From what I'm seeing the 360 rad does nothing? I have the 360 Aorus.
You beat Gamers' Nexus, Paul's Hardware, and Hardware Unboxed to the punch. Good job. We all must understand our usefulness.
Been trying to snag this model. $150 for an AIO cooling solution 100% worth IMO
MSI is great if you need warranty coverage for the pump
8:30 I top mounted mine and flipped the fans around to the other side of the rad as well - I found that pushing through the rad wasn't effectively evacuating the heat from the case, but that the fans pulling the heat through and up/away from the top was very successful. I'm using a Corsair 5000D with 7 fans drawing fresh air front and side. 13900k with Corsair 150 AIO, running temps are usually well within the 40-50 degree range on both CPU and GPU spiking around 60ish. (idle is 20-30)
Waterforce is a total crap-fest. Quality is horrible, people have reported scratches and such on new products, as well as very poor leak detection rendering the card unable to do anything. Anyhow, the cooling performance for the gpu on the MSI card is probably better because the aio is dedicated just to the gpu, whilst other components are air cooled. Also the SUPRIM series is the highest quality PCB and best looking (imo) on the market. Great review!
Longer power adapter would be interesting, so you could hide the connectors in the cable chamber and sleeve the four cables as one thicker.
I've seen these for around 1200 usd surprisingly. All other 4090s are around 2k.
Yeah also in Germany these are cheaper than all other 4090s. Weird considering this one already has a cooling solution with it.
My two main concerns with this are pretty high memory temps compared to other models and pump failure/other potential AIO issues
I'm sure the pump won't fail that easily, talking from experience never had one fail on me ever. But your miles may vary. Also if it fails warranty is there or just replace the pump yourself since they aren't that expensive.
@@erisium6988 Yeah these pumps are designed to run at way so relaxed just so the pump last forever.
The memory is liquid cooled. I wouldn't worry about the temperatures. The video showed the memory junction temps of the founders card and the Suprim Hybrid being about the same during furmark.
The cooling is all from Cooler Master... Shouldn't be any problems besides the normal outliers.
@Seola for what GN have stated these days, looks like margins are razon thin this time around.
Just one of these days, we'll be hanging up our PC on the outside of the house, just to keep the patio from icing over... Thanks for the review, much appreciated.
Nice addition to my Nzxt H210i itx case !
After MSIs Fiasco with the CPU AIOs I would never ever buy one without being absolutely sure it is good.
Can’t wait until the 5090s come out so the 4090s will be in stock.
in stock at msrp
bro if i spend 1700$ on gpu I ain't saving money on custom water cooling
but like he said this is better for performance
true
Also exhausting it saves the VRMS Temps cause that’s air cooled
Got one of these running right now, quiet and crushing games.
Bring on the full loop!!
The price is not bad compared to founders edition card.
Hey Ali, thanks for mentioning the real world width of this card. This is literally the only 4090 that will fit in the Phanteks Shift XT that I intend to build in (> 3 slot, 240mm rad). Seeing as you are the only person I know of that has both the mentioned card and case, do you happen to have tried fitting the card in the Shift XT and does the width clear the top or do the tubes actually make it incompatible? Thank you.
What's going on with the memory temps of this particular model? All the reviews I've seen have the VRAM running hotter than all air cooled cards!
Great video and analysis, as always, thanks for the high quality content you provide!
It runs hotter, but not to an alarming degree. Shouldn't be an issue unless you're just comparing directly to other cards. The blower design here just isn't as good as other flow through designs. The one benefit though is that the exhaust is directly exiting the case rather than heating up the inside.
Nvidia made FE so good, there is barely any reason left to choose an AIB card over FE! I can see more AIBs following what EVGA decided.
Barely any reason? Better cooling, lower noise level and higher availability are all reasons to get an AIB card. Where I live it's simply impossible to get an FE card.
FE doesn't sold worldwide. It's only available in some countries.
@@fajaradi1223 Exactly. So many people are oblivious to this fact and just mindlessly tell people to get an FE card.
Nice review for suprim x lc.. please do consider also reviewing gigabyte with 360mm aio.. thanks!
Previous generation also had this model. It went by seahawk
Looking to buy that card, decent review. I've subscribed as well :)
Hola, es muy importante tener en cuenta el calor extra de la Foundation que genera estando dentro de una caja, por muy refrigerada que este la caja, siempre sera mejor la que expulsa directamente el aire caliente hacia afuera
I have this in a Corsair 5000D and it's SOOOOO nice
Great pun with the “unreleased” Video coming at the end of this month :D
10 months after this video gets posted and im nowca proud owner of this exacr card!
**very** patiently waiting for your custom watercooled version 😅
Can you build an ITX System with 4090, like ichill frostbite, and show how the temps are with the different setups of radiators?
What's your thoughts on something like the Alphacool Eiswolf 2 AIO????
Video up just as MSI jacked up the prices of this card.
erm msi have been doing AIO cooling on cards for years, they partnered with Corsair, the msi cards were called seahawk. and you could actually buy the cards direct from corsair
ASUS need to some out with an AIO if the rest of the competition does it. 360mm fine by me.
Thank you, John Cusack.
I find it hilarious that the PCB hasn't physically gotten any bigger - it's actually SMALLER than most 20-series cards used to be. It's just the cooling requirements are ridiculous nowadays. I'm actually kind of impressed that AIB manufacturers haven't melted the PCBs with all that heat and current going through them.
Nice video! Can’t wait for your list of cases for the 4090. Also any idea what’s a good case for the evga 3090ti with an aio? Lastly, what resolution are you recording the videos? When I watch it on my 65” OLED, it seems stretched vertically making you look skinny.
Im using the Tower 500. Running AIO for the cpu on top of case and AIO for the 4090 on the vertical side rails... loving this case
Essentially any case that's optimized for airflow and has the space for the GPU and AIO would work just fine. Most reputable case manufacturers will list their maximum internal dimensions on their product page.
@@bildur1 what’s the tower 500?
Thermal Take tower 500.
With evga dropping out, someone had to fill the hybrid card void.
Can you still mount this if you're already using an AIO for your CPU?
I'm running my setup in a Corsair Vengeance 780T case and may upgrade next year
the built that you promise it's gone case.
I think the only ITX cases that can handle 4090s with water cooling would be something like the meshroom, but aside from that...
Great review man!
This is the best looking RTX 4090.
expected over 3000mhz consistently since it's liquid
Brilliant video and great to see one in the wild. How much shorter is the card in this cooling design setup? Was thinking if shorter it might go into my case and mount the rad block outside (as go no space in my case for that :-( )
Nice to see, love this type of videos
I have been pleasantly surprised by the 4070ti. Lords of the fallen lies of p and starfield all look amazing i have been wanting to get the 4090 and this would be nice if they would sell it at msrp.
Scammers on Amazon are mass buying 4090 cards and selling them anywhere from $2,300 to $3,500. Which sucks but you can find some people on eBay selling them for cheaper.
I'd avoid the scalpers on eBay also.
I will maybe buy this when the rtx 6000 realeases
that power increase is from the pump on that card to run the AIO!
Any idea on their future repairability?
For example, early AIO GPUs, like the R9 Fury X, are mostly useless now because of coolant evaporation, pump issues, etc., and there's no way to actually repair them.
Looks so cool 240mm
Very nice review but please make 4090 Itx builds video.
Insane I tell ya, just plain crazy what they're doing these days.
I'm just amused to see the difference of another almost 900 MHz clock speed on the 4090 vs the 1.815 stated clock speed of my 3080 12gb (my 3080 does still boost to about 2 GHz if I let it, but I have it set to run between 1.7-1.8 to keep it cool).
+1 GHz faster clock speed in one generation newer seems impressive.
Just to correct you msi did such hybrid cards allmost for every series starting in the 980ti days with the good old "seahawk"
This is probably the only 4090 that would temp me, the others are just too huge and wont fit even in my fairly large case.
What’s that light bar in your background? It looks really good
Water cooled GPUs make much more sense than CPUs nowadays really
5:00 WTF thats the same power draw in CB2077 as my 3080 TUF which has just two 8pins LOL
Hate THAT fan stickers at all.
Disbalance can harm the bearing in years of use
AORUS 4090 AIO just out performs this in every apsect.
Tubes seem kind of short. Worry this would be hard to fit in larger cases with plenty of radiator capacity such s the Fractal Design XL cases.
nice！want to see 4090 in ITX build.😀
These videos are satisfaction for the eyes. Not for the heart. :')
closed loop AIO are the way to go, i have the 1080ti ftw3 hybrid and i never get passed 60c hitting 1974mhz @ 300 TGP, ill get the 4090 someday but im still rocking FPS with my 1080ti i like most dont have money to burn.
Swolptimum Tech is the best tech channel on TH-cam. Fight me.