Probably not I mean it’s essentially a Monster Cross, I don’t think folks really do hit that hard ground on gravel bikes, on my Norco search so 35mm max I generally only see MTB very rare to see Gravel bikes unless it’s my one club mate who also has one! I personally like the old school MTB feeling of gravel bikes, but would I love a FS gravel bike? Yes would I buy one? Probably not!
Wait till Dirty Kanza can only be won if you’re riding a suspension gravel bike. In my opinion it’s the beginning of a future direction for gravel. Much the same as dual suspension and hardtail MTBs both have their places.
Gravel events in my area incorporate a lot more offroad "MTB worthy" sections that will make for a punishing experience on a rigid bike. In regards to the frame I say yes, but a simpler lower maintenance suspension design like a Moots YBB Softtail or Cannondale's new Topstone Carbon would be of more interest to many. In regards to suspension up front, that is a definite yes from me. I use a Fox F29 modified to 60mm of travel on the speedy bike and a Rock Shox Paragon on my go anywhere touring rig.
Then,right now what I has to do is to fit a 34-50T crankset + a rigid fork + 1set of 700c×38 gravel tyre on my 29er mtb..oh, plus one drop handlebar and we good to go🤣
@@jackdumanat49 That never works properly. MTBs/straight bar bikes are much longer than drop bar bikes and you run into compatibility issues with the shifters and derailleurs if you're putting drops on a complete bike. It can be done, but it's a headache, and even after spending a bunch of money and time you are still riding a bike that fits bad. I know that some people claim they love their drop bar converted MTBs, but I also know that some people like to have intercourse with donkeys, so... I agree tho, it seems like manufacturers are just trying to reinvent the MTB. I fell in the same trap too. I bought a gravel bike and after a while I was thinking about how I could fit bigger tyres, lower gearing etc. I was looking at drop bar frames that could take 2.1-2.2 tyres, bigger rotors, stuff like that. Then I realized wait a minute, MTBs exist for a reason. After a while an MTB, even "just" an XC one makes more sense. Also, not everyone has just miles and miles of gravel roads. A lot of the time I need to ride much more rough dirt roads and trails to get to the gravel bits where an MTB will do way better. But still, i'll always love quirky big tyre drop bar bikes.
@@HollyBoni I built a rigid 29 inch MTB with dropbars using a combo of ultegra / XT / XTR and I love it. In fact I believe that larger tires are the solution, and not FS for gravel...
Nah, not even: go on e-bay and score yourself a touring frame for like 50 and bolt a drop bar on it. And chances are that you'll get coil springs instead of pneumatic ones, so you can actually go there _and back_ without rebuilding your bike.
A guy here in the Philippines, who owns TT bikes in the past changed into an XC MTB with aero bars and rides along with his fellow road bikers. His reasons? Maintainance for MTBTT bike is cheaper than original TT bike. His name is HC MavErick
AG Coarseman You should try the feeling of flying peacefully through the air on an mountain bike. Seriously, roadies don't think MTB can go fast, but I bet you can go faster on some descents than you'll on a road bike.
if you need suspension on your gravel bike, its time for you to get a mountain bike maybe just something like lauf fork or suspension stem i can understand for long stins
Sure, if you don't mind the aerodynamic drag and tire weight and rolling resistance. It's a case of different horses for different courses. If you ride 80% singletrack and 20% fire road, an XC mountain bike is the way to go. But if it's 50/50, I'd start leaning toward gravel, because fire roads are just no fun on a mountain bike. If you ride 10% paved roads, I'd say things are decisively in favor of a gravel tire. My mountain bike is fully rigid, which is eccentric, but maximizes fun on the trails I ride most often: moderately technical singletrack with frequently heavy foot traffic that precludes high speeds. But even though I run some of the fastest rolling MTB tires on the market, it feels like I'm dragging a boat anchor when I have to ride pavement.
That's like saying if you want your slammed road bike to be more comfortable, get a dutch bike... You don't need to go to the extreme to solve a problem. Often a halfway house is the best option.
@@grumpynerd well you could get a second set of wheels and fit gravel tyres or what we used to call dual purpose in the old mtb days. Gravel tyres will be no good in serious wet , muddy tracks either. The industry is trying to build the everymans bike which the hardtail 29er was touted as previously. My trails are xc so i b have a dedicated xc bike my road riding is leisute and fast group hence a road bike. A road bike with more clearance would allow gravel ability with a crank change. Ideally id get another fully rigid gravel bike but can't justify that outlay.
@@grumpynerd Depends,of course,on the type of gravel roads near you. We have lots of gravel roads here but they arent the smooth ones they show in videos for gravel bike rides. Gravel can be deep,gravel can be rough. It can be almost too steep to pedal up along with deep gravel,thats what happens around here a good bit. So far I like my 29'r XC Kona pretty well for gravel. Makes fast rough downhills WAY fun.
@@bradsanders6954 Same here. We have pretty clean rail-trail paths here in southeast PA. I recently switched to a hardtail XC bike from cyclocross bikes. Not getting rattled on the straights and having a true granny gear and having more traction on the turns is, for me, worth the aero and rolling efficiency hit. I do miss the drop position though...
Essentially this is the same scenario we encountered way back when mountain bikes first introduced suspension. In the early days I prefered a rigid mountain bike then as suspensions evolved I much prefered the suspended bikes. From the perspective of a recreational rider I definitely see the benefits of the MCR now and into the future.
This is a great take and I agree, for mixed terrain riding this sounds really cool. I live in Scotland so we have plenty of hills and rugged trails but I also enjoy doing road/cyle path cycling to get to those places (rather than taking a car) to me, this bike and the others like it seem like a cool option to have available.
I love you GCN. I'll admit, I was surprised that the MCR was slower. But I'm curious: if the test had been longer, say 30 minutes or so, wouldn't the MCR have pulled ahead? Isn't the point of that extra suspension to help in the longer run, when the body is fatigued and running on willpower? I'm a fan of the simpler more stripped down bike (for aesthetics and maintenance purposes). In fact my main gravel bike is a retromod Peugeot PN-10 from 1973. But... I'm also a fan of accurate info and I'm afraid the hasty conclusion from this video is that full suspension gravel is slower. I'm not so sure. Anyhow, could you do that test again? hehe ;)
I can tell you first hand more suppleness on your average gravel bike feels great! Anything less than 40mm tires and your missing out on some real fun. But I can’t imagine needing any more suppleness than the 650B x 47mm tires on my Open U.P. I bomb down gravel descents with no problem and don’t have to lock out anything on pavement.
I just got back into riding a bicycle. My old Peugeot that my big brother gave me in 1988 for my 25th birthday is a road bike. I tuned it up and trained on it for a few months and got my first James renegade gravel. I'm loving it! Thanks for your show. Y'all are truly inspiring!
I would go with the full suspension on gravel. I just feel out of place and feel like I’m putting excessive strain on a rigid bike off-road. And I’m just worried about getting a puncture the whole time, even though I never get them. It’s extra stress I don’t want. I also think we’re going to see a lot more suspension for road as well. Especially for touring and gravel exploring type bikes, I think we’ll see some form of suspension. And they’ll probably mostly be e-bikes too. I think people who aren’t riding for competition will start taking comfort a lot more seriously.
I think if they managed to come up with a half-way house of half the suspension travel for half the weight penalty, and not loosing so much of that direct feeling, I'd be interested.
Sir Si. You really must be the best reviewer/commentator of cycling . Well spoken, clear, informative with just the right amount of personality. Very appreciated .
Anthony B to expand on that, you’re able to have the speed of a road bike with the capability of a gravel bike (which is just a road bike for mountain bikers)
Remember when it was weird if you saw a mountain bike with drop handle. Crazy how things change. Have to thank all those pioneers though that didn't give a crap what people thought.
@@CanIHasThisName You know what? For me half rodie half MB I hate suspensions and how much they require attentions and money. I want my simple steel bikes back :(.
Full suss looks great, more choice is always better. The extra comfort will probably be more attractive to those of us carrying a bit more wear and tear, with less of a desire for KoMs and looking towards more fun.
I'm all for choice, and am sure someone will buy it. For me though I'll stick fully rigid: my gravel bike is used as a road bike which is capable of ring taken down some lighter trails and it's great fun!
Funny because people were saying the same thing about Gravel bikes a few years ago. Even on this channel, some were saying they would just use their road bike to do gravel riding.
I have just purchased the Rawland xSogn Gravel bike (I’m 6’1 and it was the only large frame available for sale in the U.S.) so I had to buy it. I only went on it for one ride and I could already tell you that it’s by far the best gravel bike I have ever ridden. 😊
More like an old timey XC bike with all the modern components. Modern XC bikes are 100% mountain bikes. Not just in geometry and riding position, but also in handling. You can ride Enduro tracks on them. Not competitively, but you can.
Or its a road bike for XC Mtb guys. I was seriously considering getting this but it came out a bit late, I instead got a traditional Fat Chance Chris Cross for road and single track riding
my idea of perfect gravel bike is: steel frame, 700/650bX40-50, if needed suspension seatpost and / or stem (cane creek or red shift) . Simplicity, effectiveness, durability, fun...less is more
I don't get much time for pleasure riding and I like to make my daily ride to and from work as exhilarating as possible. So, for me, the MCR looks like the ultimate commuter bike. I often wonder what damage I'm doing to my bike and wheels as I hop on and off curbs (not condoning doing that of course) and crash through London's many potholes. I grew up riding mountain bikes and only recently switched to road bikes, but old habits die hard.
@@THE_W0RLD_1S_Y0UR5 You don't lock a bike, in public, in London? Despite all the bike carcasses everywhere? I left my new bike out once and the saddle disappeared on the first night, and the lock was attacked (but held) another time. How exactly do you define "public"? And what kind of garbage bike do you ride that nobody wants?
@@KimonFrousios I actually have 5 bikes of varying value, both monetary and sentimental. But my most expensive bike I would never lock up for any period of time, I have learnt my lessons previously. As I said, I am in the privileged position of being able to take my bike into work and have space in my flat for it (or 3 lol)
I’m about to turn 50 and started riding a bike again because of knee problems. I’m in decent shape but was very worried about how my breathing sounded after a long climb because no other videos I’ve seen had riders breathing heavy. Thank you for not editing that out and making me feel normal
This was a nice surprise when jumping on my trainer this morning. You see I bought this full suspension gravel bike used, and unseen halfway across the USA in Arizona. I thought I would give it a try instead of renting on an upcoming vacation. Three vacations not renting pays for it is how I justified it. Thank you for flying all the way to Colorado for this fine review!
i have honestly been waiting for this to happen, since many of the cross country profesionals are riding full suspension bikes and they win often do i think just give this some time and i think theyll soon be the norm. i also think that gravel races will become more technical as this tech matures. but honestly, i personally thought that a hard tail gravel bike with front sus would become the norm before the full sus bikes would start ariving on the market.
Pity you all stayed on the smoother bits. That trail has some nice rocky singletrack in the trees. Would have been nice to see how it handles it...love fort Collins though, nice to see it filmed so well!
I'm awaiting delivery of one of these now. I mostly got it for comfort and versatility. I have ridden a basic commuter for years but stopped riding and wasn't even sure why. A year or so I bought a bike for my son that is pretty lightweight and had front shocks. I took it for a spin, and fell in love with the suspension. I can't wait to start riding again!
My typical gravel ride is between 45-60 miles. I always try to incorporate as many different riding surfaces as possible to keep it exciting. Out here in Oregon we have rutted logging roads, washboard farm roads, technical single track, old asphalt strewn with unavoidable pot holes and very rough pit run stretches. I've been riding the Diverge Evo for two years which has a 20mm spring in the headset. Often I question why not use a full suspension xc race bike instead. Well it's the gearing. I cannot find a frame that with accommodate a 40 tooth front chainring that is great for long descents and flat road sections. If someone made a sub 20lb. Xc MTB that did I'd buy it.
While cool, the MCR complexity level is at a 10. A Moots Routt YBB with a Lauf brings that complexity down to a 3 with similar results. The squish probably isn't as good but not having to deal with lockouts, suspension service, and a boat load of bearings, it's a winner in my book.
Full squish gravel is a bit of overkill IMO. Elastomers in the head tube and seat stay as well as tire choice/pressure would be the better choice again IMO. Handlebars being shaped/tuned or tuned seatposts also are nice😁
Like all the GCN vids, this one is another treat to watch! I enjoy all the experimental projects and bikes you showcase. I would love to give the full suspension a try. I think the future of gravel bikes (with full suspensions) are looking good. I have found that many of the older riders (myself included) prefer the more gravel orientated stage races. Less agressive terrain but still long distances, in which case a bike that delivers a smooth and fast (yet sturdy) ride will be preferred. I honestly think the gravel bike is the bike of the future because of its dual application on road and gravel. I was in a specialised bike shop a few days ago and I was dumbstruck at all the cyclo cross variations currently available. I wonder if suspensions will ever come into play on tarmacs...
Excellent video Simon never disappoints ,,horses for courses as far as full suspension goes , I am tempted to get. Louf fork but will have to wait and see
Aaaaannnd Trek has just unveiled a new kind of rear suspension for XC softail bikes, wich looks better for gravel than a proper shock like this one. Bad timing for Niner maybe .. And is there a bottle cap as a steering cap in those bikes ? Nice video btw !
COME TO FORT COLLINS AND DO A MEET AND GREET! I would have loved to say hi since I have been a die hard fan since the “what not to wear and eat” era. Even an organized group ride or something would be really fun to attend and could give Niner more traction on their new bike 😉 glad you enjoyed the trails and flavors of FOCO.
went from germany to the southern french coast this summer on a cheapo steel road bike with 32mm tyres.. had an absolute blast. only thing i was missing was a granny ring for the climbs. and more power banks ;)
I wish you had done another timed run on the MCR, dampening the suspension on the flatter sections. I ride a Cannondale Slate and the 30mm of front travel is brilliant. I often switch it on and off on the fly on a given ride.
Put riser bars on that and it's a mountain bike. You're not fooling anybody with all your talk of geometry, we know an MTB when we see one, and this looks suspiciously like the GT Helion.
Yeah, I have been saying for a while the light weight rigid xc bike we road in the mid 90s were gravel bikes of today. The bar end position that has been banished by most mountain bikers who were embryos in the 90's is basically the hood position.
Manufacturers have been toying with suspension for rough road races for a while now so it does make sense for gravel and off road riding where an XC mountain bike might be a little bit overkill (especially as they’re becoming slacker with more travel due to increasingly more gnarly World Cup courses). I do however think the Niner MCR is just the beginning and that future designs will be sleeker and lighter as everything else in this industry. What they have done very well is keeping the front triangle wide open for full frame bags, just like a “normal” gravel bike. For now though, I ride a steel frame with 650b wheels and Redshift Sports Shockstop stem and seatpost for comfort over the gravel roads. Seems like a happy medium between road and XC.
Why can’t anyone ever just comment, “ Cool! Another option for someone who needs/wants it! But NO let’s whine and cry about it. I know, l know, you don’t even need a “gravel” bike period! “Just the bike industry trying to sell you something you don’t need.” 😒 Meanwhile I’m going for an adventure ride. Linking road with gravel with dirt with single track with double track on conservation land with...
well for adventure rides there is some loss of area inside the frame triangle where you could put a bike bag previously, and depending on how far and remote you want to go, it's better to opt for something simple that you can maintain, you don't want a roadside rear shock repair do you? But other than that, it is a bkie made for that sort of thing I guess...
Can I really like the ideas of a gravel bike and not ride it on gravel? But allow it to be my road bike? Is it fast enough to keep up with the roadies?
Ok...that rear suspension lockout is really cool. I am a traditionalist, but if I were riding a lot of rough stuff (and had the money) I would be tempted by the full suspension bike to use as a mountain bike, since doing big jumps and high speed downhill isn't my thing. I like the looks and all the mounts on their traditional gravel bike, too. And that it has the guides for dynamo wiring is awesome for touring/multi-day adventures.
For those of us that enjoy engaging in more than one cycling discipline the MCR ticks a lot of boxes. Exploring the road less travelled in more comfort enabling longer time on a bike with less fatigue. Thats a winner in my book!
Four seconds difference... that's just noise, statistically speaking. The difference may have been that you were fresher on the first go round (with the rigid bicycle). Or that the rigid bicycle just felt more "normal" to a roady. Cool comparison, but, it may just end up being a decision based on the type of outings you think you might most encounter.
Agreed. Few of these comparisons have any statistical validity without replication and randomisation. Rider could have been more tired, conversely more familiar with the course. Perhaps the weather was warmer for the second trip, or a stronger wind. At the least, the trial should have been repeated with a different order of bikes used. Better would be to repeat in randomised order several times and t-test to see that variation due to chance was not bigger than variation due to the bikes. Sorry to be boring. A fun, quite useful video all the same.
It's a continuum: [road] sprinter bike to aero bike to climbing bike to endurance bike to gravel bike (CX is around here somewhere) to hybrid/flatbar bike to [MTB] hardtail bike to XC race bike to trail bike to enduro bike to downhill bike. It's an infinitely dense like where you can always find/make a bike in between the "established" categories.
Global Cycling Network in a way. If you think about a rainbow, the light refracts into all different wavelengths. The visible light on the rainbow ranges from 380 to 750 nm. Continuously. But we see about six district colors. Bikes are that way, there’s bikes at every spot on the continuum, but we only see six categories.
Ever since I put aerobars on a full suspension mountain bike I've been waiting for something like this. Thanks. Probably a very good mixed surface commuter.
So...in the end, I still have to ask...How is this not a mountain bike, with drop bars and thinner tires? Couldn't you put 35-38mm tires on a mountain bike, and lock out or limit the suspension?...and save yourself a few thousand dollars? Am I missing something? Do I need to trash my SLX, and purchase Ultegra...with less gear range for off road?...But, I'm going to have a "better experience" on my local trail and beach rides? All this time, you mean I have been missing out on having an 28 tooth Ultegra or Dura-Ace cog in the rear as my climbing gear?
Did you watch the video? It's about geometry, no matter what you do to an mtb it still has that trail focused upright geo. The point about gear ratios seems rather exaggerated as well, you can go 34-34 (maybe even 36, not sure) with standard Shimano Rings + cassettes. This won't be as good as an mtb on tough trails because *gasp* that's not its purpose. But it will be more capable and more comfortable than a fully rigid bike while still running laps around mtbs on flat gravel sections because of the seating position.
@@ska042 More and more (rigid) gravel bikes are coming out with 70 degree head angles. XC hardtails can have pretty darn aggressive geo. See some bike checks from world cup level XC races if you want to see some massive saddle to bar drops.
@@ska042 Well, I am sure everyone qualifies their, cycling comments, but, here goes: I raced for my entire 20 year career in the Marines in CA with my fellow USMC riders in the military division of the Desert Series Triathlons: Swim/Obstacle Course/Run/MTB. My point is that in the ACTUAL wilderness, there is a such a variety of terrain that you can't limit yourself to just accounting for "gravel", when riding off road and choosing the most capable all terrain mount. (CAAD-3 Cannodale back then). Now just a fitness and fun rider, after a stretch of "gravel" on your ride, and then you face an uphill called "Baby's Head Hill", named for rocks the size of a baby's skull here in San Diego county...Then What? The Gravel Bike riders with the 35-38 mill tires smoke my group on the "gravel"section...which by the way, is entry to the off-road trails, which we have called "THE TRAIL HEAD" for about 40 years. But my crew and I always seem to end up half way through breakfast and second espresso before the grovelers...sorry...gravelers, show up at the cafe, after having to carry their bikes for 1/4 of the ride. So, after 45 years of cycling, 20 competitively--> I'll PASS on this commercially designed mandate that you must have separate commuter/road/mountain/ & gravel bikes, worth $15,000-$20,000 --> or you just can't be part of the "Cycling Illuminati". But if you seek to CONQUER the off road, in all its natural forms, physics proves you might want to double or triple the 35-38mm tire selection! Best of luck, and if you blaze pass me on the "trail head" portion of the ride, then I'll kindly and humbly reward you with an espresso at the cafe...when you show up! Actually...I do like that bike for a versatile touring option for road/trail/bad weather. All those mount locations, carbon, steel, aluminum options - Pretty Cool!!!
@@conanfa18 lmao you could have just said "I want a bike for lots trail riding, so a gravel bike is not for me I want a proper MTB". Just stating the obvious: Gravel bikes are faster on gravel, trail bikes are faster on trails. Choose depending on what you actually ride on most of the time. Edit: Not to mention lots of people who ride gravel bikes also use them on the road a lot, inbetween and on the way to the off road sections. Gravel bike on the road is perfectly fine, MTB on the road is a bit of a slog. But as I said just think about what you actually want to do with the bike and what kind of terrain is around you. Where I live I'd have to ride for an hour to even get to a trail that you want an MTB for.
@@ska042 What if you compare a lightish XC hardtail with fast 2.25 tyres to a gravel bike with 43-45mm tyres? I ride a gravel bike on the road too, but i'm not convinced that with the right setup an MTB is slower, or noticeably slower. You could run an agressive position if you wanted (again, look at XC racers). Some 2.25 XC tyres weigh as much or almost as much as some gravel tires in the 43-45 range. According to bicyclerollingresistance.com something like a 2.25 Thunder Burt or Race King has lower rolling resistance at lower pressures than a 37mm Vittoria Voyager slick. (Sadly they haven't really started testing gravel tires) Sometimes I also have to ride an hour to get to nice offroad terrain, but on that terrain an MTB would be much more fun and comfortable compared to my gravel bike, and i'm still not convinced it would be that much slower on pavement on the way there. Sadly I haven't had an MTB and gravel bike at the same time yet so I can't make a direct comparison. 😢 Just planning to buy an MTB that will also handle the duties of my gravel bike.
I'm guessing it will do/sell well. If I didn't already have several full-suspension XC bikes, and now a comfortable rigid gravel bike, I would consider adding the MCR to "the collection".
@@merlinthebikewizard4392 Only the modern ones. The 90's MTBs had a short frame and monstrous long stems with up to 130mm. Perfect fit for drop bar conversion with normal stem. ;)
Isn't the Lauf to springy without actual damping? From the point of view of driving dynamics, the undamped Lauf should have less grip on bumpy terreain than a damped fork and in some occasions even less then a rigid fork.
I'm super excited to hear about the full suspension bike. I'm currently riding a gravel bike (Bergamont Road RD 7). But during my last tour I hit quite a couple of cobble stone streets. Traveling straight through Germany that is something entirely unavoidable. And it's not something that you want to ride on, especially if you carry everything (tent, cooking equipment etc) with you in late autumn. Therefore, hearing about any potential improvement of gravel bikes is fabulous. The only question remaining is: can you mount a Tubus on the front wheel for low riders such as the Vaide Road Master Front bags?
I'm definitely a traditionalist. I love my 1990s hardtail GT MTB. Smallish frame, high seat post gives a fast, nippy and responsive feel. It is fun, strong and not too heavy. Great for touring on cycle trails with semi slick tires.
I am a very old school rider. I have 4 bikes, City, Fully, Race MTB and a Road Bike. Last week i was in the Swiss Alps, riding Mt. Passes. and decided to mount slicks on my Hard Tail Race MTB. I left the Rock Shock on the bike. Yes, it was heavier than the road bike.... Slower than the road bike... I ran of gears on the descents... And i got passed by a bunch of roadies. ;-(. So what were pluses?; I did two passes in the rain, and the disc breaks worked very well.... It was stable on the descents... It was more comfortable.... I am returning to sports after two years of injuries, so comfort and stability (vs agility) and breaking were the reasons i went with the MTB with slicks. It worked great. I was able to do 6 passes in 3 days. (Susten, Grimsel, Furka, Gotthard, Oberalp, Lukmanier). Yes, at times i did miss the efficiency of a road bike. NO; Fully Gravel Bikes are not a thing of the future. Better to with a Hard Tail MTB and small tires. The longer chain stays adds comfort and stability and the long seat post, short and long frames gives added agility.
I specifically got into "gravel" bikes to get away from the complications of suspension and hydraulics. I have been a mountain biker for decades but mountain bikes have become overcomplicated, heavy, failure-prone, impractical, and require constant money/maintenance. I love the simplicity of a rigid bike with functional aspects like various mount accommodations, huge tire clearance for whatever floats your boat, and playful yet stable geometry. Not only do I not care for suspension frames/forks, I also prefer mechanical disks due to experience with sudden failure of hydraulics as well as chronic air ingress issues when below freezing. As always, I primarily ride technical single track yet also use my bike for commuting and errands. Rain, snow, sun, ice, mud, salt, etc
I struggle to see the point... Most of us will have a mountain bike and a road bike in our garage and while I get the n+1 argument, it would need to be brilliant at more things than just a very thin place between what my road bike can do and my mountain bike..
Aside from the bobbing, which at high torque and cadence (i.e. when going flat out, which is when you'd like the frame to be made of forged Tungsten) will be there, my problem and one of the biggest reasons why I'm probably not converting a short travel full-sus in a gnarly gravel bike is maintenance: I need to service the suspension every 50 hours of riding and that means 10-15 rides for which I'd like a gravel bike. That's a lot of exhaust oil, a lot of spares and a lot of work compared to a rigid bike. And, let's face it, already a gravel bike by itself needs some justifying. All in all, I think this is an interesting first, but the suspensions actually narrow the scope here: they increase the overlap with a XC or even a small trail bike, optionally with a drop bar (yes: with a frame on the smaller side and careful selection of the stem, you can get a very good position) while removing the bike from smoother white roads and asphalt in general. A more intriguing attempt would be, IMHO, a Moots' style soft tail with a Lauf fork, which would offer less travel and remove the maintenance problem, while still delivering a comfier ride over very rough fire roads and simple single tracks --and would be probably closer to a road bike on tarmac. The obvious problem here: I sense a bill exceeding 4k€ just for the Ti frame and fork; which is a flipping lot.
At this point isn't that just a mountain bike with drop bars? To be honest it is more of a mountain bike than my current mtb. I still rock a trek carbon 9700 mountain bike from the mid 90's. No suspension, and a triple.
You know, i am an xc rider, but my everyday rides consist of 50% dirt 50% road. Recently i tested an old mtb my dad had, which has the geometry and shares many similarities with a gravel bike. It just was way heavier and... Slumpier?! And guess what. I was 1.5 mins faster on a 20 min "sprint" and i hadnt trained for a week. And then i imagined how much faster i would be on a modern gravel bike. But then it came to mind "what if there was a gravel bike with a front suspension" And then this popped up. Well it has rear suspension too, but anyway.
that MCR full suspension bike seems ideal for urban commuting in Brazil. People here commute basically on MTBs It is really rare to see a road bike because the roads are really bad. You can lock the suspension for when you hit that rare smooth asphalt and have suspension for most of the way with wider-than-road-bikes-tires-but-not-so-wide-as-downhill-MTB-tires. Also, some people do have to traverse through gravel daily around here. Main point for MTBs though is going up and down curbs easily and through potholes that usually road bikes cant go through.
Hi GCN ....Opinions from the Phililppines...hi everybody, I would just like to share my thoughts about full sus "gravel bikes",and I think that my sentiments are also shared by other filipino bikers as well. I reay do think that having an affordable full sus bike would greatly benefit my country and our bikersas well (not to mention, the manufacturer that would also look at this as a viable market). You see, while the rest of the modern western world get kicks out of riding in "rough surfaces/gravel" our bikers deal with this on a daily basis, our "paved roads" will be already be like being in gravel for people that our not from our country (I know its funny, but its unfortunately true, hahahahh) Many of our citizens here would like to just bike to work but find hardtail mountain bikes as too cumbersome in terms of weaving the bike in and out of traffic, also because these people already felt the hassle of the bike "being too big" they also feel that it is more of hassle to park as they see mountain bikes as being "big and heavy" .If filipinos would have an option to have an alternative aside from hardtail mountain bikes (that have front sus) as a viable evryday mode of transportation, I am pretty sure that more of my countrymen will get into biking. This will of course have 2 benefits, no. 1 would be that our country and countrymen would become heathier and the second will be that country's economyw will greatly improve. As I dont see the state of our roads improving soon, having a bike with "roadbike like" geomtry that offers the most comfort given our roads will be the best thing that we can utilize as a tool. In this aspect, this bike that we know of as a full sus gravel bike can be a full pledged commuter bike here in the Philippines, and I am not saying this cause I think that full sus gravel bikes are cool(althought, I really think they are.hahahahha). I am just stating the facts that if a bike company would have a look in this market ( shout out niner!!!!!!l ) they would not only have a healthy profit , they will also have claims that they helped improve a nation's development, now how is that as an entry in a company profile, right?! This is provided of course that the manufacturers will be able to provide filipinos with great prices. I understand that in the bike manufacturers perspective it is not that simple, ( there are other factors like logistics , r and d etc etc)but if these big name brands will not be able to give an affodable offering then its just 2 things, first. Its because the manufacturer just cares about profit and money, and second, their engineers do not know what they are doing. Thanks for your time in reading guys...peace love happiness to evrybody!!!!!
Wow, I'm impressed. First it was recumbents, now suspension! I thought these where bad words in GCN circles! I wish this was available years ago as the roads where I'm from haven't been paved since there first paving and are full of pot holes patched or otherwise. Dirt and gravel roads are smoother then the "paved" roads we have here.
![ไข้ขึ้นเลย! เมื่อแฝดโดนจัดเต็มวัคซีนครบ2เดือน🤒 [cc] แดนแพทตี้ SS2 | EP.54 |](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/z2VHItnyyvY/mqdefault.jpg)
Do you think a full-suspension bike is the future of gravel riding?
No! Don't come near to me with that thing.
I want a full suspension road bike that isnt 10K...
Probably not I mean it’s essentially a Monster Cross, I don’t think folks really do hit that hard ground on gravel bikes, on my Norco search so 35mm max I generally only see MTB very rare to see Gravel bikes unless it’s my one club mate who also has one!
I personally like the old school MTB feeling of gravel bikes, but would I love a FS gravel bike? Yes would I buy one? Probably not!
Wait till Dirty Kanza can only be won if you’re riding a suspension gravel bike.
In my opinion it’s the beginning of a future direction for gravel. Much the same as dual suspension and hardtail MTBs both have their places.
Gravel events in my area incorporate a lot more offroad "MTB worthy" sections that will make for a punishing experience on a rigid bike. In regards to the frame I say yes, but a simpler lower maintenance suspension design like a Moots YBB Softtail or Cannondale's new Topstone Carbon would be of more interest to many. In regards to suspension up front, that is a definite yes from me. I use a Fox F29 modified to 60mm of travel on the speedy bike and a Rock Shox Paragon on my go anywhere touring rig.
I put drop handlebars on my mtb once too!! Didn’t realise I was so ahead of the times... 😂
toasty bear 😂😂😂
Tomac and other people were doing it in the 90s, seems like gravel bikes are reinventing MTB :P
Then,right now what I has to do is to fit a 34-50T crankset + a rigid fork + 1set of 700c×38 gravel tyre on my 29er mtb..oh, plus one drop handlebar and we good to go🤣
Me too 😂
Soon we'll have full susp gravel bikes with flat bars. It's gona be a paradigm shift.
This already exists
@@normadicn5700 r/woooosh
😂😂
No, it's gonna be an xc mtb XD
@@prajwalpingali go back to reddit
Probably should have put in a cross country MTB for comparison.
or just put a drop handlebar on cross country bikes?
This. Anywhere I can think of a full sus gravel bike to be useful or really great, is really cross-country mtb territory already.
@@jackdumanat49 That never works properly. MTBs/straight bar bikes are much longer than drop bar bikes and you run into compatibility issues with the shifters and derailleurs if you're putting drops on a complete bike. It can be done, but it's a headache, and even after spending a bunch of money and time you are still riding a bike that fits bad. I know that some people claim they love their drop bar converted MTBs, but I also know that some people like to have intercourse with donkeys, so...
I agree tho, it seems like manufacturers are just trying to reinvent the MTB. I fell in the same trap too. I bought a gravel bike and after a while I was thinking about how I could fit bigger tyres, lower gearing etc. I was looking at drop bar frames that could take 2.1-2.2 tyres, bigger rotors, stuff like that. Then I realized wait a minute, MTBs exist for a reason. After a while an MTB, even "just" an XC one makes more sense. Also, not everyone has just miles and miles of gravel roads. A lot of the time I need to ride much more rough dirt roads and trails to get to the gravel bits where an MTB will do way better.
But still, i'll always love quirky big tyre drop bar bikes.
@@HollyBoni I built a rigid 29 inch MTB with dropbars using a combo of ultegra / XT / XTR and I love it. In fact I believe that larger tires are the solution, and not FS for gravel...
wakojako49 or both straight bar and curly bar I don’t know what they are I’m not a roadie
At this point I might as well put TT bars on my XC bike and be done with it 😜
Dude, careful with that. Delete this comment immediately or a manufacturer will steal your brilliant idea.
Nah, not even: go on e-bay and score yourself a touring frame for like 50 and bolt a drop bar on it. And chances are that you'll get coil springs instead of pneumatic ones, so you can actually go there _and back_ without rebuilding your bike.
Shhh I was going to put a 36T on my xc bike to do that
A guy here in the Philippines, who owns TT bikes in the past changed into an XC MTB with aero bars and rides along with his fellow road bikers. His reasons? Maintainance for MTBTT bike is cheaper than original TT bike. His name is HC MavErick
Rigid fork, road bike cassette, road bike deraileurs. Basically, roadbike except for the frame. Hahahaha
Hey, whatever it takes to get roadies to realise that mountain biking is more fun...baby steps and all that 😃
Plus on the trails, you are away from everyone which makes you feel better. Dogs are good buddies too. They just go and go.
Could show MTB crews that its OK to own a helmet without a visor :O
AG Coarseman why not both!? I’ve done 100km on a 29er with Maxxis Minions. 😂
AG Coarseman You should try the feeling of flying peacefully through the air on an mountain bike. Seriously, roadies don't think MTB can go fast, but I bet you can go faster on some descents than you'll on a road bike.
@@its-gsatt6855 the visor one makes you look less stupid and two is an important mud guard for your eyes.
How long until the GGBN ? (Global gravel bike network)
si = ggbn
Sounds like a “thing” to me
Not much gravel in UK
Normadic Not really true, there is loads when you look for it.
GGN sounds better to me: Global Gravel Network
if you need suspension on your gravel bike, its time for you to get a mountain bike
maybe just something like lauf fork or suspension stem i can understand for long stins
Sure, if you don't mind the aerodynamic drag and tire weight and rolling resistance. It's a case of different horses for different courses. If you ride 80% singletrack and 20% fire road, an XC mountain bike is the way to go. But if it's 50/50, I'd start leaning toward gravel, because fire roads are just no fun on a mountain bike. If you ride 10% paved roads, I'd say things are decisively in favor of a gravel tire.
My mountain bike is fully rigid, which is eccentric, but maximizes fun on the trails I ride most often: moderately technical singletrack with frequently heavy foot traffic that precludes high speeds. But even though I run some of the fastest rolling MTB tires on the market, it feels like I'm dragging a boat anchor when I have to ride pavement.
That's like saying if you want your slammed road bike to be more comfortable, get a dutch bike...
You don't need to go to the extreme to solve a problem. Often a halfway house is the best option.
@@grumpynerd well you could get a second set of wheels and fit gravel tyres or what we used to call dual purpose in the old mtb days. Gravel tyres will be no good in serious wet , muddy tracks either. The industry is trying to build the everymans bike which the hardtail 29er was touted as previously. My trails are xc so i b have a dedicated xc bike my road riding is leisute and fast group hence a road bike. A road bike with more clearance would allow gravel ability with a crank change. Ideally id get another fully rigid gravel bike but can't justify that outlay.
@@grumpynerd Depends,of course,on the type of gravel roads near you. We have lots of gravel roads here but they arent the smooth ones they show in videos for gravel bike rides. Gravel can be deep,gravel can be rough. It can be almost too steep to pedal up along with deep gravel,thats what happens around here a good bit. So far I like my 29'r XC Kona pretty well for gravel. Makes fast rough downhills WAY fun.
@@bradsanders6954 Same here. We have pretty clean rail-trail paths here in southeast PA. I recently switched to a hardtail XC bike from cyclocross bikes. Not getting rattled on the straights and having a true granny gear and having more traction on the turns is, for me, worth the aero and rolling efficiency hit. I do miss the drop position though...
Image where you could ride with a full suspension gravel bike that had flat bars and slacker geometry. If only such a bike existed.
But then your rapha race cut gravel jersey doesn't fit so good because your bars are wider. ;)
"and it probably _can't_ do this"
I bet Blake Sampson looks at that a little different than you do Si.
Chris I thought the same thing and came down to comment :)
Might manage it but would it survive it, the jumps they showed were massive. Sure Blake would love it on the more usual single track jumps though.
looks like he got pretty close th-cam.com/video/_TG5aBuWwXU/w-d-xo.html
Martyn Ashton already did that kind of stuff with Road Bike Party
Haven't you seen Road Bike Party 2 & 3?
Hell yeah! Fort Collins! Great to see you guys come out here.
Essentially this is the same scenario we encountered way back when mountain bikes first introduced suspension. In the early days I prefered a rigid mountain bike then as suspensions evolved I much prefered the suspended bikes.
From the perspective of a recreational rider I definitely see the benefits of the MCR now and into the future.
This is a great take and I agree, for mixed terrain riding this sounds really cool. I live in Scotland so we have plenty of hills and rugged trails but I also enjoy doing road/cyle path cycling to get to those places (rather than taking a car) to me, this bike and the others like it seem like a cool option to have available.
I love you GCN. I'll admit, I was surprised that the MCR was slower. But I'm curious: if the test had been longer, say 30 minutes or so, wouldn't the MCR have pulled ahead? Isn't the point of that extra suspension to help in the longer run, when the body is fatigued and running on willpower? I'm a fan of the simpler more stripped down bike (for aesthetics and maintenance purposes). In fact my main gravel bike is a retromod Peugeot PN-10 from 1973. But... I'm also a fan of accurate info and I'm afraid the hasty conclusion from this video is that full suspension gravel is slower. I'm not so sure. Anyhow, could you do that test again? hehe ;)
I can tell you first hand more suppleness on your average gravel bike feels great! Anything less than 40mm tires and your missing out on some real fun. But I can’t imagine needing any more suppleness than the 650B x 47mm tires on my Open U.P. I bomb down gravel descents with no problem and don’t have to lock out anything on pavement.
I just got back into riding a bicycle. My old Peugeot that my big brother gave me in 1988 for my 25th birthday is a road bike. I tuned it up and trained on it for a few months and got my first James renegade gravel. I'm loving it! Thanks for your show. Y'all are truly inspiring!
I would go with the full suspension on gravel. I just feel out of place and feel like I’m putting excessive strain on a rigid bike off-road. And I’m just worried about getting a puncture the whole time, even though I never get them. It’s extra stress I don’t want. I also think we’re going to see a lot more suspension for road as well.
Especially for touring and gravel exploring type bikes, I think we’ll see some form of suspension. And they’ll probably mostly be e-bikes too. I think people who aren’t riding for competition will start taking comfort a lot more seriously.
I think if they managed to come up with a half-way house of half the suspension travel for half the weight penalty, and not loosing so much of that direct feeling, I'd be interested.
I think you want a full sus mtb
Sir Si.
You really must be the best reviewer/commentator of cycling . Well spoken, clear, informative with just the right amount of personality.
Very appreciated .
This would be great for commuting. No worrying about potholes, and you can hop curbs but not have to lug a massive mountain bike around town.
Anthony B to expand on that, you’re able to have the speed of a road bike with the capability of a gravel bike (which is just a road bike for mountain bikers)
That’s just a 90’s full suspension mtb with drop bars
Well considering how bad full sus was back then I hope not...
Except this suspension will actually work.
No its not a 90s bike, its a modern "Adventure bike!"
Remember when it was weird if you saw a mountain bike with drop handle. Crazy how things change. Have to thank all those pioneers though that didn't give a crap what people thought.
Benjamin Whitehead
Adventure .... it’s a fucking bike and a mountain bike at that
Psyched to see GCN riding Fort Collins trails! My kids and I rode the trails in this video yesterday. Blue Sky. Good times!
Yup. Wish I'd known they were in town
I've been dreaming of this day! Thanks for the demo! Look forward to getting my hands on one of the puppies someday
Pine ridge natural area, Fort Collins Colorado. I know because I literally live across the street from there! It's a shame I missed you guys!
Found you
Finally, a gravel bike that makes sense. Nice cinematography too! And not too much Chatter. Really enjoy Si's vdeos.
Ok, nice, so the headache of maintaining suspensions finally comes to roadies!!!
Lol that's was my first thought to!
Really don't think this is a product for roadies.
@@CanIHasThisName You know what? For me half rodie half MB I hate suspensions and how much they require attentions and money. I want my simple steel bikes back :(.
@@DanuelNuel Well, nothing is forcing you to buy bikes with suspension :)
Just keep on riding what suits you.
I go everywhere with my rigid steel bike and never had a problem. The only maintenance I do is cleaning and shifter adjustment.
Full suss looks great, more choice is always better.
The extra comfort will probably be more attractive to those of us carrying a bit more wear and tear, with less of a desire for KoMs and looking towards more fun.
I'm all for choice, and am sure someone will buy it.
For me though I'll stick fully rigid: my gravel bike is used as a road bike which is capable of ring taken down some lighter trails and it's great fun!
Funny because people were saying the same thing about Gravel bikes a few years ago. Even on this channel, some were saying they would just use their road bike to do gravel riding.
I have just purchased the Rawland xSogn Gravel bike (I’m 6’1 and it was the only large frame available for sale in the U.S.) so I had to buy it. I only went on it for one ride and I could already tell you that it’s by far the best gravel bike I have ever ridden. 😊
So it's a XC Mtb for guys who have started on, and are used to, road bikes?
More like an old timey XC bike with all the modern components. Modern XC bikes are 100% mountain bikes. Not just in geometry and riding position, but also in handling. You can ride Enduro tracks on them. Not competitively, but you can.
I used to do downhill on mine before it was stolen
Kilian Ortmann 😂😂😂😂 yes
Or its a road bike for XC Mtb guys. I was seriously considering getting this but it came out a bit late, I instead got a traditional Fat Chance Chris Cross for road and single track riding
Love it. Adds more options to an already overwhelming number choices.
my idea of perfect gravel bike is: steel frame, 700/650bX40-50, if needed suspension seatpost and / or stem (cane creek or red shift) . Simplicity, effectiveness, durability, fun...less is more
Just finished a bike build on a Niner RLT steel frameset which I combined with a Shimano GRX 2x11 groupset. First test ride yesterday. Lovely.
I don't get much time for pleasure riding and I like to make my daily ride to and from work as exhilarating as possible. So, for me, the MCR looks like the ultimate commuter bike.
I often wonder what damage I'm doing to my bike and wheels as I hop on and off curbs (not condoning doing that of course) and crash through London's many potholes.
I grew up riding mountain bikes and only recently switched to road bikes, but old habits die hard.
Looks like a pretty poor commuter bike, to me: no way to mount panniers, and the suspension makes it look sexy to bike thieves.
@@beeble2003 I use an Ass Saver nad never lock my bike up in public.
I guess I'm in a privileged position.
@@THE_W0RLD_1S_Y0UR5 You don't lock a bike, in public, in London? Despite all the bike carcasses everywhere? I left my new bike out once and the saddle disappeared on the first night, and the lock was attacked (but held) another time. How exactly do you define "public"? And what kind of garbage bike do you ride that nobody wants?
@@KimonFrousios I actually have 5 bikes of varying value, both monetary and sentimental.
But my most expensive bike I would never lock up for any period of time, I have learnt my lessons previously.
As I said, I am in the privileged position of being able to take my bike into work and have space in my flat for it (or 3 lol)
@@KimonFrousios And what do you mean despite all the bike carcasses? They serve as a constant reminder not to!
I’m about to turn 50 and started riding a bike again because of knee problems.
I’m in decent shape but was very worried about how my breathing sounded after a long climb because no other videos I’ve seen had riders breathing heavy.
Thank you for not editing that out and making me feel normal
0:00 The world was “shocked”
(Because it has suspension)
This was a nice surprise when jumping on my trainer this morning. You see I bought this full suspension gravel bike used, and unseen halfway across the USA in Arizona. I thought I would give it a try instead of renting on an upcoming vacation. Three vacations not renting pays for it is how I justified it. Thank you for flying all the way to Colorado for this fine review!
i have honestly been waiting for this to happen, since many of the cross country profesionals are riding full suspension bikes and they win often do i think just give this some time and i think theyll soon be the norm. i also think that gravel races will become more technical as this tech matures.
but honestly, i personally thought that a hard tail gravel bike with front sus would become the norm before the full sus bikes would start ariving on the market.
Pity you all stayed on the smoother bits. That trail has some nice rocky singletrack in the trees. Would have been nice to see how it handles it...love fort Collins though, nice to see it filmed so well!
I'd like to see the MCR compared to a Moots YBB Gravel w/ a Lauf fork. Also Prices & weights as tested would be useful.
I'm awaiting delivery of one of these now. I mostly got it for comfort and versatility. I have ridden a basic commuter for years but stopped riding and wasn't even sure why. A year or so I bought a bike for my son that is pretty lightweight and had front shocks. I took it for a spin, and fell in love with the suspension. I can't wait to start riding again!
WE'VE GONE FULL CIRCLE
Perfectly balanced as all thing should be. Can we snap this now?
Finally! Waiting for a dual suspension gravel from times when a first rigid gravel was introduced!
Thanks for good review!
Quite like the new RLT9 Steel. Actually trying to decide between it and going all in on a Moots.
My typical gravel ride is between 45-60 miles. I always try to incorporate as many different riding surfaces as possible to keep it exciting. Out here in Oregon we have rutted logging roads, washboard farm roads, technical single track, old asphalt strewn with unavoidable pot holes and very rough pit run stretches. I've been riding the Diverge Evo for two years which has a 20mm spring in the headset. Often I question why not use a full suspension xc race bike instead. Well it's the gearing. I cannot find a frame that with accommodate a 40 tooth front chainring that is great for long descents and flat road sections. If someone made a sub 20lb. Xc MTB that did I'd buy it.
While cool, the MCR complexity level is at a 10. A Moots Routt YBB with a Lauf brings that complexity down to a 3 with similar results. The squish probably isn't as good but not having to deal with lockouts, suspension service, and a boat load of bearings, it's a winner in my book.
Gotta love the enduro and dh bikes in the background
Full squish gravel is a bit of overkill IMO. Elastomers in the head tube and seat stay as well as tire choice/pressure would be the better choice again IMO. Handlebars being shaped/tuned or tuned seatposts also are nice😁
Like all the GCN vids, this one is another treat to watch! I enjoy all the experimental projects and bikes you showcase. I would love to give the full suspension a try. I think the future of gravel bikes (with full suspensions) are looking good. I have found that many of the older riders (myself included) prefer the more gravel orientated stage races. Less agressive terrain but still long distances, in which case a bike that delivers a smooth and fast (yet sturdy) ride will be preferred. I honestly think the gravel bike is the bike of the future because of its dual application on road and gravel. I was in a specialised bike shop a few days ago and I was dumbstruck at all the cyclo cross variations currently available. I wonder if suspensions will ever come into play on tarmacs...
And low, the final Niche was filled and the masses said in one voice "Enough!"....
Welcome to Foco GCN! I see your riding horsetooth reservoir and pine ridge. Your in my backyard. Great single track around for us MTBers too.
But which was most comfortable? The footage from the MCR (even taking the GoPro smoothing into account) looked smoother.
The full sus MCR was way more comfortable. Way, way more comfortable.
Excellent video Simon never disappoints ,,horses for courses as far as full suspension goes , I am tempted to get. Louf fork but will have to wait and see
Aaaaannnd Trek has just unveiled a new kind of rear suspension for XC softail bikes, wich looks better for gravel than a proper shock like this one. Bad timing for Niner maybe ..
And is there a bottle cap as a steering cap in those bikes ?
Nice video btw !
The one Yolanda got? It does look more streamline.
The bottle cap just presses onto niners top cap
Fat Tire Brewery, Fort Collins, CO
@@thomasfrater855 New Belgium Brewery. Fat Tire is the name of their worst beer.
@@charliedillon1400 My apologies, thank you for correcting me. And if Flat Tire is the worst, which is the best?
COME TO FORT COLLINS AND DO A MEET AND GREET! I would have loved to say hi since I have been a die hard fan since the “what not to wear and eat” era. Even an organized group ride or something would be really fun to attend and could give Niner more traction on their new bike 😉 glad you enjoyed the trails and flavors of FOCO.
Nice vid, looks like mountain bike is best all around for gravel. I have the diverge and will be selling it for an epic mtn bike 😄😜😎
Great video for all of use who now ride more gravel then the road, two very nice bikes.
The gap between road cycling and mountain biking is really closing with new bikes like the Niner MCR and the Trek Supercaliber.
went from germany to the southern french coast this summer on a cheapo steel road bike with 32mm tyres.. had an absolute blast. only thing i was missing was a granny ring for the climbs. and more power banks ;)
You’re in my backyard! Hope you enjoyed the front range!
I already have one of these! It's a Specialized Epic!!!!
Somebody should resurrect the Softride Beam and suspension stem system. Not good for a mountain bike, but perfect for the gravel.
I wish you had done another timed run on the MCR, dampening the suspension on the flatter sections. I ride a Cannondale Slate and the 30mm of front travel is brilliant. I often switch it on and off on the fly on a given ride.
Mountain bike action magazine, 1993.
Put riser bars on that and it's a mountain bike. You're not fooling anybody with all your talk of geometry, we know an MTB when we see one, and this looks suspiciously like the GT Helion.
Recently converted a full sus 1994 Stumpjumper FSR to dropbars. Fun, comfortable and decently fast.
full suspension gravel bike = 1995 full suspension mountain bike with drop bars
Yeah, I have been saying for a while the light weight rigid xc bike we road in the mid 90s were gravel bikes of today. The bar end position that has been banished by most mountain bikers who were embryos in the 90's is basically the hood position.
Bianchi made a full suspension gravel (military) bike in 1912.
Manufacturers have been toying with suspension for rough road races for a while now so it does make sense for gravel and off road riding where an XC mountain bike might be a little bit overkill (especially as they’re becoming slacker with more travel due to increasingly more gnarly World Cup courses).
I do however think the Niner MCR is just the beginning and that future designs will be sleeker and lighter as everything else in this industry. What they have done very well is keeping the front triangle wide open for full frame bags, just like a “normal” gravel bike.
For now though, I ride a steel frame with 650b wheels and Redshift Sports Shockstop stem and seatpost for comfort over the gravel roads. Seems like a happy medium between road and XC.
Definately a 90's mountain bike with drop bar.
I am big fun of such gravel. Full suspension is very clever idea. I loved it.
Why can’t anyone ever just comment, “ Cool! Another option for someone who needs/wants it! But NO let’s whine and cry about it. I know, l know, you don’t even need a “gravel” bike period! “Just the bike industry trying to sell you something you don’t need.” 😒 Meanwhile I’m going for an adventure ride. Linking road with gravel with dirt with single track with double track on conservation land with...
Bravo!!!! Well said. Choice is to it all about. Plus it looks really cool
well for adventure rides there is some loss of area inside the frame triangle where you could put a bike bag previously, and depending on how far and remote you want to go, it's better to opt for something simple that you can maintain, you don't want a roadside rear shock repair do you? But other than that, it is a bkie made for that sort of thing I guess...
True! The more options the better!
I have a hard tail and I abuse my bikes. So I do not want a full on road bike so this MCR sits in that niche very nicely
Can I really like the ideas of a gravel bike and not ride it on gravel? But allow it to be my road bike? Is it fast enough to keep up with the roadies?
was this filmed in Ft. Collins?! awesome content, once again. thanks, y'all!
Pineridge, Maxwell Natural Area, Dixon Resevoir, Blue Sky. FoCo MTB scene is awesome. Much gnarlier terrain closeby too!
0:05 in shock! Geddit
Ok...that rear suspension lockout is really cool. I am a traditionalist, but if I were riding a lot of rough stuff (and had the money) I would be tempted by the full suspension bike to use as a mountain bike, since doing big jumps and high speed downhill isn't my thing.
I like the looks and all the mounts on their traditional gravel bike, too. And that it has the guides for dynamo wiring is awesome for touring/multi-day adventures.
For those of us that enjoy engaging in more than one cycling discipline the MCR ticks a lot of boxes. Exploring the road less travelled in more comfort enabling longer time on a bike with less fatigue. Thats a winner in my book!
Nice job. Thanks. I've got a gravel bike. It's a 2019 stumpjumper.
Don't let GMBN hear you calling it that 😉
Four seconds difference... that's just noise, statistically speaking. The difference may have been that you were fresher on the first go round (with the rigid bicycle). Or that the rigid bicycle just felt more "normal" to a roady. Cool comparison, but, it may just end up being a decision based on the type of outings you think you might most encounter.
Agreed. Few of these comparisons have any statistical validity without replication and randomisation. Rider could have been more tired, conversely more familiar with the course. Perhaps the weather was warmer for the second trip, or a stronger wind. At the least, the trial should have been repeated with a different order of bikes used. Better would be to repeat in randomised order several times and t-test to see that variation due to chance was not bigger than variation due to the bikes. Sorry to be boring. A fun, quite useful video all the same.
It's a continuum: [road] sprinter bike to aero bike to climbing bike to endurance bike to gravel bike (CX is around here somewhere) to hybrid/flatbar bike to [MTB] hardtail bike to XC race bike to trail bike to enduro bike to downhill bike. It's an infinitely dense like where you can always find/make a bike in between the "established" categories.
Bikes are a spectrum?
Global Cycling Network in a way. If you think about a rainbow, the light refracts into all different wavelengths. The visible light on the rainbow ranges from 380 to 750 nm. Continuously. But we see about six district colors. Bikes are that way, there’s bikes at every spot on the continuum, but we only see six categories.
Finally, a road bike designed specifically for Yoann Barelli to ride down Dirt Merchant on.
Ever since I put aerobars on a full suspension mountain bike I've been waiting for something like this. Thanks. Probably a very good mixed surface commuter.
So...in the end, I still have to ask...How is this not a mountain bike, with drop bars and thinner tires? Couldn't you put 35-38mm tires on a mountain bike, and lock out or limit the suspension?...and save yourself a few thousand dollars?
Am I missing something? Do I need to trash my SLX, and purchase Ultegra...with less gear range for off road?...But, I'm going to have a "better experience" on my local trail and beach rides? All this time, you mean I have been missing out on having an 28 tooth Ultegra or Dura-Ace cog in the rear as my climbing gear?
Did you watch the video? It's about geometry, no matter what you do to an mtb it still has that trail focused upright geo. The point about gear ratios seems rather exaggerated as well, you can go 34-34 (maybe even 36, not sure) with standard Shimano Rings + cassettes.
This won't be as good as an mtb on tough trails because *gasp* that's not its purpose. But it will be more capable and more comfortable than a fully rigid bike while still running laps around mtbs on flat gravel sections because of the seating position.
@@ska042 More and more (rigid) gravel bikes are coming out with 70 degree head angles. XC hardtails can have pretty darn aggressive geo. See some bike checks from world cup level XC races if you want to see some massive saddle to bar drops.
@@ska042
Well, I am sure everyone qualifies their, cycling comments, but, here goes: I raced for my entire 20 year career in the Marines in CA with my fellow USMC riders in the military division of the Desert Series Triathlons: Swim/Obstacle Course/Run/MTB. My point is that in the ACTUAL wilderness, there is a such a variety of terrain that you can't limit yourself to just accounting for "gravel", when riding off road and choosing the most capable all terrain mount. (CAAD-3 Cannodale back then).
Now just a fitness and fun rider, after a stretch of "gravel" on your ride, and then you face an uphill called "Baby's Head Hill", named for rocks the size of a baby's skull here in San Diego county...Then What?
The Gravel Bike riders with the 35-38 mill tires smoke my group on the "gravel"section...which by the way, is entry to the off-road trails, which we have called "THE TRAIL HEAD" for about 40 years. But my crew and I always seem to end up half way through breakfast and second espresso before the grovelers...sorry...gravelers, show up at the cafe, after having to carry their bikes for 1/4 of the ride.
So, after 45 years of cycling, 20 competitively--> I'll PASS on this commercially designed mandate that you must have separate commuter/road/mountain/ & gravel bikes, worth $15,000-$20,000 --> or you just can't be part of the "Cycling Illuminati".
But if you seek to CONQUER the off road, in all its natural forms, physics proves you might want to double or triple the 35-38mm tire selection!
Best of luck, and if you blaze pass me on the "trail head" portion of the ride, then I'll kindly and humbly reward you with an espresso at the cafe...when you show up!
Actually...I do like that bike for a versatile touring option for road/trail/bad weather. All those mount locations, carbon, steel, aluminum options - Pretty Cool!!!
@@conanfa18 lmao you could have just said "I want a bike for lots trail riding, so a gravel bike is not for me I want a proper MTB".
Just stating the obvious: Gravel bikes are faster on gravel, trail bikes are faster on trails. Choose depending on what you actually ride on most of the time. Edit: Not to mention lots of people who ride gravel bikes also use them on the road a lot, inbetween and on the way to the off road sections. Gravel bike on the road is perfectly fine, MTB on the road is a bit of a slog. But as I said just think about what you actually want to do with the bike and what kind of terrain is around you. Where I live I'd have to ride for an hour to even get to a trail that you want an MTB for.
@@ska042 What if you compare a lightish XC hardtail with fast 2.25 tyres to a gravel bike with 43-45mm tyres? I ride a gravel bike on the road too, but i'm not convinced that with the right setup an MTB is slower, or noticeably slower.
You could run an agressive position if you wanted (again, look at XC racers). Some 2.25 XC tyres weigh as much or almost as much as some gravel tires in the 43-45 range. According to bicyclerollingresistance.com something like a 2.25 Thunder Burt or Race King has lower rolling resistance at lower pressures than a 37mm Vittoria Voyager slick. (Sadly they haven't really started testing gravel tires)
Sometimes I also have to ride an hour to get to nice offroad terrain, but on that terrain an MTB would be much more fun and comfortable compared to my gravel bike, and i'm still not convinced it would be that much slower on pavement on the way there. Sadly I haven't had an MTB and gravel bike at the same time yet so I can't make a direct comparison. 😢 Just planning to buy an MTB that will also handle the duties of my gravel bike.
I'm guessing it will do/sell well. If I didn't already have several full-suspension XC bikes, and now a comfortable rigid gravel bike, I would consider adding the MCR to "the collection".
Want to see some Road bike party 4 with Sam Pilgrim on full-sus road bike.
I use a Redshift stem and seatpost with a Brooks Cambium C13 Cutout on a Trek Checkpoint ALR. It works, so no need for MTB-style suspension.
Simply buy Trek's new Supercaliber and add a drop bar
That’s a great idea.
Geometry matters. Mountain bikes are optimally designed for flat bar.
@@merlinthebikewizard4392 Only the modern ones. The 90's MTBs had a short frame and monstrous long stems with up to 130mm. Perfect fit for drop bar conversion with normal stem. ;)
Looks like a fun and versatile option for the casual rider honestly. Not sure about racing bc I’m not fast enough for that
I still prefer Lauf Grid, I might be tempted to buy their fork in the future.
Isn't the Lauf to springy without actual damping? From the point of view of driving dynamics, the undamped Lauf should have less grip on bumpy terreain than a damped fork and in some occasions even less then a rigid fork.
@@andreasboger8261 True, but on the other hand it's probably way lighter.
I'm super excited to hear about the full suspension bike. I'm currently riding a gravel bike (Bergamont Road RD 7). But during my last tour I hit quite a couple of cobble stone streets. Traveling straight through Germany that is something entirely unavoidable. And it's not something that you want to ride on, especially if you carry everything (tent, cooking equipment etc) with you in late autumn. Therefore, hearing about any potential improvement of gravel bikes is fabulous. The only question remaining is: can you mount a Tubus on the front wheel for low riders such as the Vaide Road Master Front bags?
We're back in the 90s, boys!
I'm definitely a traditionalist. I love my 1990s hardtail GT MTB. Smallish frame, high seat post gives a fast, nippy and responsive feel. It is fun, strong and not too heavy. Great for touring on cycle trails with semi slick tires.
Why comparing with an enduro bike? Never heard of XC bike? Thanks niner for sponsoring this neutral Video ;)
I am a very old school rider. I have 4 bikes, City, Fully, Race MTB and a Road Bike. Last week i was in the Swiss Alps, riding Mt. Passes. and decided to mount slicks on my Hard Tail Race MTB. I left the Rock Shock on the bike. Yes, it was heavier than the road bike.... Slower than the road bike... I ran of gears on the descents... And i got passed by a bunch of roadies. ;-(. So what were pluses?; I did two passes in the rain, and the disc breaks worked very well.... It was stable on the descents... It was more comfortable.... I am returning to sports after two years of injuries, so comfort and stability (vs agility) and breaking were the reasons i went with the MTB with slicks. It worked great. I was able to do 6 passes in 3 days. (Susten, Grimsel, Furka, Gotthard, Oberalp, Lukmanier). Yes, at times i did miss the efficiency of a road bike. NO; Fully Gravel Bikes are not a thing of the future. Better to with a Hard Tail MTB and small tires. The longer chain stays adds comfort and stability and the long seat post, short and long frames gives added agility.
But why? A rigid MTB set up with soft 2.4in tubeless tyres would be lighter, more versatile and more comfortable.
I specifically got into "gravel" bikes to get away from the complications of suspension and hydraulics. I have been a mountain biker for decades but mountain bikes have become overcomplicated, heavy, failure-prone, impractical, and require constant money/maintenance. I love the simplicity of a rigid bike with functional aspects like various mount accommodations, huge tire clearance for whatever floats your boat, and playful yet stable geometry. Not only do I not care for suspension frames/forks, I also prefer mechanical disks due to experience with sudden failure of hydraulics as well as chronic air ingress issues when below freezing. As always, I primarily ride technical single track yet also use my bike for commuting and errands. Rain, snow, sun, ice, mud, salt, etc
I struggle to see the point... Most of us will have a mountain bike and a road bike in our garage and while I get the n+1 argument, it would need to be brilliant at more things than just a very thin place between what my road bike can do and my mountain bike..
Aside from the bobbing, which at high torque and cadence (i.e. when going flat out, which is when you'd like the frame to be made of forged Tungsten) will be there, my problem and one of the biggest reasons why I'm probably not converting a short travel full-sus in a gnarly gravel bike is maintenance: I need to service the suspension every 50 hours of riding and that means 10-15 rides for which I'd like a gravel bike. That's a lot of exhaust oil, a lot of spares and a lot of work compared to a rigid bike. And, let's face it, already a gravel bike by itself needs some justifying.
All in all, I think this is an interesting first, but the suspensions actually narrow the scope here: they increase the overlap with a XC or even a small trail bike, optionally with a drop bar (yes: with a frame on the smaller side and careful selection of the stem, you can get a very good position) while removing the bike from smoother white roads and asphalt in general. A more intriguing attempt would be, IMHO, a Moots' style soft tail with a Lauf fork, which would offer less travel and remove the maintenance problem, while still delivering a comfier ride over very rough fire roads and simple single tracks --and would be probably closer to a road bike on tarmac.
The obvious problem here: I sense a bill exceeding 4k€ just for the Ti frame and fork; which is a flipping lot.
At this point isn't that just a mountain bike with drop bars? To be honest it is more of a mountain bike than my current mtb. I still rock a trek carbon 9700 mountain bike from the mid 90's. No suspension, and a triple.
I would like to see how they compare on the road. Most of my rides have at least half the distance on road to get to the off road.
You know, i am an xc rider, but my everyday rides consist of 50% dirt 50% road. Recently i tested an old mtb my dad had, which has the geometry and shares many similarities with a gravel bike. It just was way heavier and... Slumpier?! And guess what. I was 1.5 mins faster on a 20 min "sprint" and i hadnt trained for a week.
And then i imagined how much faster i would be on a modern gravel bike. But then it came to mind "what if there was a gravel bike with a front suspension"
And then this popped up. Well it has rear suspension too, but anyway.
Grigoris Giannikos if you want to spend 5k to save 95 seconds I feel like you have too much money and should donate half of it to a charity
that MCR full suspension bike seems ideal for urban commuting in Brazil. People here commute basically on MTBs It is really rare to see a road bike because the roads are really bad.
You can lock the suspension for when you hit that rare smooth asphalt and have suspension for most of the way with wider-than-road-bikes-tires-but-not-so-wide-as-downhill-MTB-tires.
Also, some people do have to traverse through gravel daily around here. Main point for MTBs though is going up and down curbs easily and through potholes that usually road bikes cant go through.
You will get mugged and shot dead trying to ride that in any major Brazilian city.
@@puntoycoma47 thats for sure, but its still ideal for the surface although not practical.
Hi GCN ....Opinions from the Phililppines...hi everybody, I would just like to share my thoughts about full sus "gravel bikes",and I think that my sentiments are also shared by other filipino bikers as well. I reay do think that having an affordable full sus bike would greatly benefit my country and our bikersas well (not to mention, the manufacturer that would also look at this as a viable market). You see, while the rest of the modern western world get kicks out of riding in "rough surfaces/gravel" our bikers deal with this on a daily basis, our "paved roads" will be already be like being in gravel for people that our not from our country (I know its funny, but its unfortunately true, hahahahh) Many of our citizens here would like to just bike to work but find hardtail mountain bikes as too cumbersome in terms of weaving the bike in and out of traffic, also because these people already felt the hassle of the bike "being too big" they also feel that it is more of hassle to park as they see mountain bikes as being "big and heavy" .If filipinos would have an option to have an alternative aside from hardtail mountain bikes (that have front sus) as a viable evryday mode of transportation, I am pretty sure that more of my countrymen will get into biking. This will of course have 2 benefits, no. 1 would be that our country and countrymen would become heathier and the second will be that country's economyw will greatly improve. As I dont see the state of our roads improving soon, having a bike with "roadbike like" geomtry that offers the most comfort given our roads will be the best thing that we can utilize as a tool. In this aspect, this bike that we know of as a full sus gravel bike can be a full pledged commuter bike here in the Philippines, and I am not saying this cause I think that full sus gravel bikes are cool(althought, I really think they are.hahahahha). I am just stating the facts that if a bike company would have a look in this market ( shout out niner!!!!!!l ) they would not only have a healthy profit , they will also have claims that they helped improve a nation's development, now how is that as an entry in a company profile, right?! This is provided of course that the manufacturers will be able to provide filipinos with great prices. I understand that in the bike manufacturers perspective it is not that simple, ( there are other factors like logistics , r and d etc etc)but if these big name brands will not be able to give an affodable offering then its just 2 things, first. Its because the manufacturer just cares about profit and money, and second, their engineers do not know what they are doing. Thanks for your time in reading guys...peace love happiness to evrybody!!!!!
This is epic!
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Paragraphs. Use them.
Wow, I'm impressed. First it was recumbents, now suspension! I thought these where bad words in GCN circles! I wish this was available years ago as the roads where I'm from haven't been paved since there first paving and are full of pot holes patched or otherwise. Dirt and gravel roads are smoother then the "paved" roads we have here.
Thought it was April Fools day .