The problem with the smooth roller isn't necessarily its smoothness, but rather the fact that it touches the wheel over a smaller area. This deforms the wheel much more than it would over tarmac, which probably shifts the results in favor of narrower and harder tires.
@@kalashnikovcortez1380 No. It was merely a remark on Ollies comment "This is all well and good, and it does give an indication as to the difference in rolling resistance between the two tires and the different pressures, but its not entirely representative of the real world on these perfectly smooth rollers".
@@andreip9378 Unless the relationship between deformation and rolling resistance is exactly linear it won't be the same for all tires. Even if it is linear this would only mean that the relative difference is the same (between the tires on asphalt and on the roller), which directly implies that the absolute difference in watts cant be the same.
Ulrik Seip The harder, narrower tire will always be faster on a good surface, as long as you have grip. When you slip and crash, or have a flat, it is suddenly much slower. It indeed is comparing apples and oranges.
I appreciate this test because I take my gravel bike (with gravel tires) out with my roadie friends and now I can explain why I just can keep up with them instead dropping them.
I was expecting to see how much faster since thats the title. All i got was "yes faster 👍". To sum this video up: Presenter: skinny tire went further Ollie. Ollie: yes... it, did... Both: look at camera, blank stares, end scene.
This test would be useful comparing different gravel tire patterns for those that want the best hybrid tyre for road and gravel use. Your proposed sequel would be quite obvious - the road tires would never ride a gravel course to even begin competing with the gravel tires, but probably more comparable on the reverse on tarmac.
Rollers apply friction much differently than a smooth road. Yes, please do efforts on smooth road and gravel and compare power, would love to see that!!
@@ichallengemydog Sure no problem, the fact that the rollers are cylindrical (with a quite small diameter relative to the size of the wheel) means that the contact pressure is more acute when compared to a flat road. The smaller the roller diameter, the deeper the deflection of the tire, and road is basically and infinite diameter roller. This deeper tire deflection means that rollers are much more sensitive to tire pressure, texture, pattern, etc. Sorry it's hard to explain much more without using additional science that I'd have to look into more myself. From personal experience, changing tire pressure slightly doesn't make much difference on the road but makes a biger change on rollers because the tire deforms so much more. Honestly have never ridden rollers with knobby tires but with that more acute pressure there's no way the knobs contact the rollers the same way they do on the road. I could be wrong though 🤷
@@ichallengemydog maybe a bit more simple and visual: the strong deformation of the tyre (see video), which gets amplified a LOT more with lower pressures than on a flat road surface basically means not only more friction but basically, that you have to get up an INCLINE at the same time (just look at the angle of the deformed tyre in the direction of spin). it is as if you were to cycle up a hill ;) hope you can picture that
The weight of the tires plays a huge difference. I own a gravel bike and have 2 sets of wheels. 1 with 42 gravels and the other with 28 slicks. The 28s make it feel like I am flying.
Thank you for posting this. I was shaking my head immediately and about to post my own reply before I did a Ctrl-F "smooth" and found your reply the 2nd one down. This is a terrible comparison. They should get on a large drum wheel from a car dyno and apply different traction surfaces to get a better idea.
That was a fascinating test. I didn't actually realise there would be that much of a performance loss in switching to gravel tires. This makes me question my plan of switching from road tires to gravel tires. Thanks for providing this super useful information.
Two factors make it matter much less than seems in the real world 1) Drag is proportional to speed squared. 2) No surface is smooth like a roller - and softer tyres absorb the bumps without pushing the whole bike pack. Even small ripples affect it.
Nice job, guys! Despite the comments, reasonably well done. I use my cross/gravel bike (Giant TCX w 40mm tires) as a training bike on local bike trails & intervals, & ...gravel. Makes riding my road bikes (w 25 or 28mm tires) easier.
Sorry, but the realy power was only appr. 150W. Ok? Weight of driver is round 70Kg. (after big breakfast :-) Downforce 700 Newton, 45 km/h are 12,5 m/s and a rolling coificent of 0,005 (GP 5000) gives 43,7 Watt! Suggest the graveltire needs 3 time more power....150W. IF the ergometer simulates also the wind resistance, then the power could also be true ,-)
Depending on how much gravel vs tarmac you ride, you might look into the Rene Herse 700x38 Steilacoom or 700x42 Hurrican Ridge. Ted King is winning 100+ mile gravel races on these, and supposedly they roll very well on tarmac.
Michelin jets, kenda happy mediums, most any file tread cyclocross tire work on every surface. True, only 33-35mm but how often do you need more? These tires are great gravel tires and make group rides on the road a much more demanding ride, which is necessary if you re the alpha in the group and riding with your freinds requires you to back off a bit.
Yup -- something like the Compass (now Rene Herse) Barlow Pass or Snoqualmie Pass, run tubeless (on a rim with a hook bead!). Another fun test would have been to take these knobbies and shave off the knobs so we can know that the casing is the same.
Wow, I am commuting all year around, using GP 5000s (late spring, summer and fall), Schwalbe winter marathons (winter) and G-Ones (early spring). I would never have guessed the differences to be this huge! I have just bought myself a power meter, so I will probably do some own testing. Very interesting subject, thanks for interesting video!
Conti 4Season is a great tyre for bumpy, cold and/or wet roads (and even typical "big city" roads with lots of threats like shards etc.) - but the GP5000 is MUCH faster. whenever I switch back from the 4season to GP in spring time it feels like doping. (and it comes with a 32 version too)
I'm not usually much of a TH-cam commenter, but I have to tell you both how much I appreciate your videos. I'm a nerd by nature and maybe a *budding* cyclist, who's probably way too deep into the weeds of the physics of making my bike faster without nearly the same work ethic on making myself stronger. This is exactly the kind of data I was looking for in setting up my commuter. Thank you guys so much.
Great test! I would really like to have seen something like 32mm gravel vs 32mm slicks though. How much would I save on my 40 min commute by swapping out my gravel tyres with road tyres ?
Probably Bugger all in reality. I used 25mm tyres and switched to 32m gravel king SK. 1 minute difference over a 10 mile commute (traffic lights make more of a difference). Not worth worrying about and the comfort and puncture protect was hugely increased.!
Swapped put my 28c road tyres for 32c gravel Kings over the winter, not as spritely as road tyres, and not as fast, but certainly good enough, plus I've been going off road a bit when the mood takes me
@@Northernerdownsouth you can get all of the above with 32 or wider gp5000s or other high quality road tires. Virtually unflattable, super fast rolling, great grip and a boost in comfort. Go tubeless if possible for extra flexibility on pressures
Would have been nice to see a comparison of different pressures for the same width gravel tire ... or compare a 38mm to 47mm gravel tire at same or different pressures. These would be useful!
This is good information for bicycle touring, where people have to keep the tire choice they made for their trip. I would like to see a test of touring tires carrying heavier loads.
Interesting - bicycle quarterly did a similar test but with slick, very supple compass tyres on imperfect tarmac and they basically found that rolling resistance decreed as they tyres got bigger until they reached 28c at which point rolling resistance pretty much levelled out until they reached absurdly large volumes of over 50c - they also found that tyre pressure has little to no impact in rolling resistance, so long as the tyres are slick, supple and light-weight.
Ding ding ding ding ding you sir are the winner! 👍👍👍 Jan Heine & Co., have proved that this BS is nonsense once again gcn proving their ignorance and lack of understanding when it comes to Scientific experimentation inductive reasoning and actual analysis
Thank you for bringing this up. It’s actual best tested in doing Strava segments with different setups. My experience has been that 44mm slicks roll as good as 28mm on tarmac and much faster on bad taac and gravel. No doubt whatsoever. Just let the masses ride their skinnies and suffer bumpy rides for no reason.
Long ago, I disregarded the *'Conventional Wisdom'* and have often utilized 38mm - 60mm (99-123mm) tires on Mountain (& FatTire) Bikes - *OnAsphalt*... My Klein QuantumII & LeMond 'RoadBikes' have almost 200 miles on 28mm (Max) Tires - after 4 years... (while) My On*One Fatty with 4"/99mm FatTires has been ridden over 345miles - On ONE Weekend...!!! My Trek Farley EX8 Full-Suspension FatTire MountainBike gets more mileage a month than all my (so-called) 'RoadBikes' and 'TouringBikes' put together for the year... (My Brevet Randonnee Bike used for 100k-600k 'Road' Rides is an older MountainBike with Serfas Drifters or Continental Town&Country Tires...) The extra "Cush" and Comfort, how little it may seem, really Adds Up after 35miles and 5000' of Vertical on Gravel Jeep and SingleTrack... but we continue with some Asphalt and more Gravel and Jeep Trails for another 40miles and 3400', and gave up early to 'avoid' the so-called "easy half" of the Irreverent Ride 8.0 (IRR8.0)... NEXT YEAR 77mm Tires!!! (and none of this 44mm so-called "Faster Tires" nonsense...)
The Gopro mount is a great addition. The perspective is really cool. Got myself one a few weeks ago. Couldnt try it yet since my collarbone is still broken, but its really cool to see you use it👍
Wow chaps, you deserve a thumbs up just for the amount of times you swapped out the tyres!! May I suggest that next time you procure a couple of cheap wheelsets (assuming the budget can't stretch Zipps). Using cheaper wheels will have a minimal effect on results. Then again, on the flip side, changing so many tyres may have strengthened your "thumbs up" 😁😁😂👍👍👍👍
The Terra Speed is not meant for wet but it would still be usable of course. A better argument is what would happen in winter countries near winter when roads sometimes have a bit of snow and ice - can't use the road tires at all or it's certain death.
Cool video. What I would’ve like to see is a test similar to the ones you did on the rollers, but outside. Just find a flat smooth section of road, ride at the same power, but use different tires and pressures to see how long it takes to go a set distance. This would also account for aerodynamics of the tire. The only variable might be the wind, but you could repeat the efforts enough times to mostly eliminate that.
I'd be intrigued to see where the "crossover" point might be in conditions is where the various gravel tyres (and there's a lot of variety) take over from road tyres in performance. My commuter/gravel bike has a pair of "light gravel" tyres on there, and the roads are so bad around me that I'm fairly certain they're just as quick as my road tyres most days.
I would prefer to see tests comparing these two types of tires on a road and with a speed that average cyclist ride, like 30 km/h. Test like that might be extremely useful for someone considering buying a bike with drop handlebars
For me on the same course and same bike but with 40mm tyres I manage 27 km/h avg and with road tyres 28mm it is 32 km/h if that helps. After 20 km/h there is also AERO factor so the road bike would be more aero and also you need different set up for position for off road so that also affects aero.
For me, on the road, on the same bike (my cross bike) the difference between 40mm knobbies with "fast rolling lugs" (Maxis Ramblers) and 32/28mm slick tires (Sector 32s/28s) is at least 1mph (1.6kph) of speed at the same watts over the same course riding at around on the upper side of my endurance pace. But there is a rim difference there too, so that difference might be exaggerated a bit due to aerodynamic gains and a couple pounds/1kg or so of weight being shaved off as well. If I am riding closer to high end tempo pace the difference can become more exaggerated, closer to a 3mph/5kph difference but this is likely again due to aerodynamic gains as much as rolling resistance. And it gets even higher if I was going all out. I run everything tubeless if that matters. If you want to go by gear ratio, riding fast at the high end of tempo, on the downhill side of a roller or a false flat / light descent, I'd be riding in a 13 or 12 on the cassette on the 32mm tires in places I'd be riding on a 15 or 13 on the 40s with the same watts, and spinning the cranks a bit faster too as well. Or for another perspective, I can keep up while riding in a pace line with Cat 2-3ish road cyclists or 50+ masters (I'm old) on my slicks/carbon rims. But not on the knobbies/heavier aluminum rims, I'll blow up and fall off the back and get dropped. Due to aero and possibly weight when hammering it up hills, which is how they like to do things. I'm a skinny 59kg dude, so 2# of extra weight probably does matter to me in that scenario. That said, I still *like* riding the 40s a lot of the time because they are more comfortable on a rough road of which there are many here. And I can take the knobbies out on mild single track which is a blast on a cross bike. So I just swap out depending on what I'm doing.
Personally, I have a gravel bike for the confidence in loose and rough conditions such as cracks and potholes or gravel. However, I can easily throw some road tires on it and use it as a road bike. The only thing with mine is it isn't am aero bike (if that's what you're into) but it is definitely more durable for those rougher conditions.
@@davethedogdude I've been breaking PRs on a Canyon Grail this summer, on the road, after coming back from an accident in late May. Today I pick up a new road bike and am terribly, terribly interested to do my own "real world test" of how much faster the road tires (and bike) will be. FYI, I've been blown away with how fast the Grail rolls down hill on the road - most of the time I'm passing all the road bikes, even when I'm not pedaling. It's the uphills that make me work really hard.
I found this presentation really useful particularly in the scenario where a long tour/expedition ride that may include both off-road/gravel and on-road conditions. I would be tempted to fit robust gravel tyres but tests like this give me some indication of the price I would pay (in increased energy consumption) when going onto the tarmac road.
Christopher X, Don’t make any decisions based on these tests. You should really take into consideration what you’re likely to ride on, and then figure it out. Even riding on a rough asphalt road, a lower tire pressure can make a big difference in overall comfort. Comfort has a big impact on how “tired” you may feel afterwards. Sure you may burn 1050 calories vs 1000, but if you hands aren’t numb afterwards...etc.
I like "everyday-science". These tests where fun to watch and had some good insights. I am riding 2 tire options: 1. GP4000 28mm 2. GP 4Season 32mm (in "winter-times"). I find myself being about 3 km/h slower with the winter version (average somewhere 30km/h). To be honest I had to get used to that reduction of "road-fun" :-( BUT the grip on wet and cold roads in autumn/winter was MUCH better with the 4Season. MUCH better! Next autumn I will get back to the 4Season. You always have that painful equation of comfort-safety-speed-durability-xyz. EVERY tire is a compromise. I found 2 good ones for my usage.
I'm typically about 2 MPH slower on my cross bike with Surly Knards than I am on the road bike with GP4000s. The only thing surprising about this to me was just how many more watts it took to maintain the same speed with the gravel tires at 40 psi vs the road tires at 90 psi. I'm feeling a lot better about my speed differential now.
I have been in need of a good winter bike for a while now. I bought a gravel bike because the country roads around where I live might as well be gravel on account of the detritus left by tractors and lorries. I have never felt safer and enjoyed not having to worry so much about the state of the roads. It has encouraged me out to ride on days I might have considered otherwise. Much more fun. The fact that road tyres go quicker is really not the point, entertaining though this video was. I might point out that I am a rider in my 60's. I do however look forward to getting my titanium road bike ot in the better weather.
Another video please! Can you do the same tests using a same tire but mounted tubeless -vs- tubed? (and try at various pressures of say 12psi, 20psi, 40psi and 70psi)
I replaced the knobby 32 mm tires in my B-Twin Triban 100 with Vittoria Zaffiros, 25 mm. front and 28 mm. rear. It really pays off during longer rides.
Hello from a manual wheelchair user. Could you please do one of your videos like this one for wheelchair users and builders to be able to make more informed choices about tyres. Nice video. Thank you.
Good test ! I bought a gravel bike but I usually do road and sometimes gravel, and I have 2.10" gravel tire and i use to run 100km easy with those, I can't imagine with just road tire 😊😎
I just went on a ride using gravel tires (Vittoria Terreno Dry 40mm) with my dad for fathers day that went on a bunch of roads I had recently done with road tires (Continental Gatorskin 32mm) and this sounds about right, although I think my Terreno Dry tires are a bit faster than those continentals cause they have a file tread.
I began doing gravel recently. On my first ride I chose a 36 miles route. On a regular asphalt road, that is medium size ride. On gravel, the only thing I measured is that I almost died of a heart attack! 😬 So much more effort to maintain the pace of asphalt on gravel. It took me about 60% more time to finish than what I would have done on asphalt.
What surprised me was the NOISE of the gravel tires on the rollers. I ride trikes on paved or hard packed trails and I was wondering if I should get a more all terrain tire. These guys helped me alot. My answer is....nope. Gonna go hi pressure road tire
I absolutely love the things you guys/gals do on this channel and I have learnt so much and I’m just a hobby cyclist 😃but I’m totally hooked on all of you , keep up the awesome work cheers from Australia ❤️👍
rolling resistance is, well, rolling resistance. Gravel/larger tread tires provide more grip and control on loose surfaces. I think that's the science of how they are designed.
When we ride bikes, our power output needs to be transferred to the surface to create forward movement. Gravel tires have tread to enable this transfer on the rougher/loose surface, in conditions where a smooth tire would slip. It's like running on a track with trainers vs spikes. If you're just casually running (like coasting downhill) trainers would be somewhat equal to spikes, but as you start putting power down (like pedaling) spikes gain advantage as they're able to "grip" the surface.
i ride specialized pathfinder pro's on my gravel bike, they have a raised slick center and on tarmac that's pretty much the only thing in contact as a result even though they are 40mm wide and run them at lowish pressures they feel and go like road tyres
I ride a trike (Performer JC 70) and it came with Road Tires. But I am looking at replacing them with Gravel Tires because where I live there is far more gravel roads than paved roads. There is a primary 2 lane highway that has good paved conditions, a 2 lane secondary highway with no shoulders and lots of potholes and patch repairs. After that there are Super Grid gravel roads with a lot of loose gravel and then secondary grids with a wide variety of conditions from hard surface to rutted and rugged. I am not driving on trails. This is why I think something like a Schwalbe G-One R might be the best choice for me.
I just swapped my Schwalbe G-ones (38mm) for Conti Terraspeed's (40mm) and trundled off for my regular weekend 60km ride. BIG difference!! Worked my arse off to be slower. Handling on fast corners on Tarmac/concrete is a bit dicey too on the Conti's. Feels like the back end keeps stepping out. I swapped because I kept getting punctures on the Schwalbe's. We'll see how it goes.....
I have two similar(ish) carbon road bikes - an S-Works Roubaix that runs 28mm Conti GP 4000s and a Merida Ride 7000 that runs 35mm Schwalbe G Ones. I honestly can't (unscientifically) tell the difference in speed on a tarmac road. The G Ones are ridiculously smoother on rough bitumen and stupidly better on gravel. For me, on all surfaces and multi surfaced rides (which is almost all of my rides), the 35mm G Ones win.
Hi Jack. Great feedback. The Schwalbe G ones I assume you are referring to the G One "Allround" version & not the "Speed" model? If you don't mind me asking what weight you are and the tyre pressures you are running please? Cheers. Alan
Similar experience here, in that Gravelking SK/X-one and Smart Sams on the gravel bike all seem to be as fast as I was on a full road bike, i suspect air drag has more effect, and I love the grip/pot hole taming.
I'm riding the Schwalbe G-One Allround MicroSkin TL-Easy Folding Road Tyre. I bought them on either Wiggle or CRC for about Aus $75 and according to their website they weigh 400g each. I ride them anywhere between 30-50psi. Highly recommended.@@alanbenham4139
@@jackseph03 Cheers Jack. That's very much appreciated. Having not had much experience with off the offroad & onroad pressures I was interested to learn of your experiences. I have a set of the same, running them tubeless, on my Trek Domane and do a bit of gravel / road riding with them on. I weigh 80kgs and run them at 60 psi for road only, 50 psi for a mix of road / gravel and if it is pure gravel then around 35-40psi. They are a great tyre, but I do notice the extra drag on the road compared to my Conti GP400s (25mm) running them at 85psi. Thanks again for your comments.
Great comparison! I liked your Gravel vs. Road bike video as well. Last comparison you need to help people understand these bikes is Gravel Bike with road tires vs. Road Bike with road tires. I run road tires on my gravel bike for training, then swap wheels for Gravel events, trails etc...I would love to know how much my $1,600 gravel bike stacks up against a road bike apples to apples.
Do you feel much difference with the road tires on your gravel bike? I'm trying to decide whether to get a roadie in addition to my graveller, or to just get a set of road wheels and tires to swap out for pavement.
Great comparison! There are some gravel tires on the market that offer the best of both worlds. Problem is again APPLES to ORANGES... they suffer in other areas. My favorite tire to date is the Vittoria Torreno Dry G2.0. Fast rolling on most surfaces and the knobs on the outside help with tracking and cornering. Of course this is just my 2 cents or 2 p for you blokes on the other side of the pond. ;)
I dont know about those widths. But I can tell you this. I bought a heavy ebike ADO A20F. 72LBS. And it came with knobbly mountain bike tyres. With them I got only 11 miles range with an average speed of 18mph. And a top speed of 24.5mph. A friend recommended I change them out for a set of SPEEDSTER honeycomb tyres. And I was STUNNED At the difference. I got 14 miles range at an average of 18mph. Over the same route. And a TOP SPEED OF 27MPH. I'm sticking with the speedsters. I hold the PSI at 22.
Try testing a given power output on a surface type, including corners? Roll down tests are interesting, but don't tell us much about day to day riding.
These Muppets don't even understand what scientific and inductive reasoning are. They really reveal themselves as such under-educated dopes in Lycra! 🤣 I don't think they could even analyze boiling water 🙄🤦♂️
@@archetypex65 that's rather unfair: the method used in the test was perfectly valid, and the limits of the test were accepted at the time. My original comment was more related to further testing which could be used. A roll down test is probably the most controlled test possible outdoors, but so controlled that it provides one piece of information which is of limited use in real world applications.
@@archetypex65 you must be another internet scientist who's always bitching about quality of data right? riiight on professor. You should have just recognized the limits of their simple experiment and take the data for what they were. Instead you just told the whole world how much of an internet scientist you really are, dummy.
@@archetypex65 Sounds like you're so entrenched in your dogma that you are too emotional to make a rational argument against their video, instead of using name calling to convince those reading these comments.
The difference would be almost impossible to notice with their setup, results would be within 2 watts. At the same pressure wider tyres roll faster, while at pressures you'd actually run the narrow tyres roll faster as shown here www.bicyclerollingresistance.com/specials/grand-prix-5000-comparison assuming a pretty smooth surface. Narrow tyres have a much more significant aero advantage too, regardless of your rims.
NO difference at all absolutely zero difference in Rolling resistance from a 23 mm to a 28 mm. If you want real analysis real data credible data go check out Jan Heine on WordPress go to the section of tires there was a multitude of articles with years of testing sound reasoning and easy to understand analysis that makes these idiots look like a bunch of kindergarteners
Impressive difference, this has definitely convinced me to get a slick wheelset for my Canyon Grail. Would be cool to see a comparison between the Grail (or another gravel bike) on slicks and a thoroughbred race bike on the same wheels and tyres. How much slower would it still be?
@@geoffchambers4471 Got the Vittoria Corsa G2 Race 30mm. Really happy with these as I do a lot of distance on tarmac and the extra width compared to regular racing tyres makes it bearable to do up to ~20% gravel. Wouldn't recommend to try an all gravel route on these though, I still switch back to my 40mm tyres for that.
I would love to see an analysis of whether the difference in power requirement is impacted by the speed. I.e. is the ratio consistent of us performance more similar at less top end speeds
1) you should find either a road that has equal section of smooth tarmac, rough tarmac and gravel, or do separate tests with reasonable power output(not to overwhelm road tire on gravel section) on those 3 types of surface 2)do speedrun on same conditions as 1) 3)take 3 or 4 types of tire - road(maybe add 2 types of road tire), smooth, fat gravel and this type of gravel. maybe drop in xc bike on smth like schwalbes 2.35 fat g-one
I have two identical bikes, one fitted with 23c road tires and the other 32c gravel tires. I'm consistently around 2mph slower on the gravel tires but they're more comfortable and sure-footed.
@@nrsaification a bike shop (or Google sometimes) can help figure put how wide you can fit on your frame/fork, and theres no harm in going with the widest you can fit. A gravel bike with road tires can give best of both worlds, low resistance but more grip and comfort
when I see the difference in power in this video and compare it to my own experience: conti raceking race sport 2.2" mtb tyres v.s. conti p5000 25mm road ending up with only +- 2km/h speed difference around 30km/h on same intensity. My guess is that roller with offroad tires is just a very bad combination (they tend to flex around it as if it's a bump in the road).
I saw a test the other day where they found the wider tyre actually had less rolling resistance on a flat surface (Road) as opposed to a skinny one with higher pressure. It was because the narrow spread length wise as opposed to width
Would be good to see similar tests of big wheels vs brompton. e.g. how much more power required to ride same speed on brompton vs road bike, both smooth surface, and actual road surfaces. Just can't bring myself to put a power meter on a brommie to find out for myself. Lap of Richmond Park would make a good surface. Feel free to test slick kojaks vs the marathons so many people prefer to avoid punctures.
I'd have liked to see the roller test being done on the tarmac track. The difference in surface might have made a difference. I've just been doing my own experiment. I have a cyclocross bike and had been using 35mm CX tyres. With most of my cycling being on road, I switched to 28mm road tyres. I cycle alone, so I'm not keeping up with a group - it's just about putting in about the same effort for similar ride durations. There's been little difference in overall ride speed but the comfort is reduced over even small blemishes in road surface. However, last night I was back on light(ish) gravel and the difference was huge - the road tyre grip was poor and it was *much* less comfortable to the point that I had to back off. The road tyres are at 70/90psi (F/R) and the CX tyres are at road friendly 50/70psi. I'll persist for a little longer but, as it stands, the CX tyres are better all round for me.
Valid points I'd have to agree with you on some points but I'll add that I really hated how fast I was wearing out my CX tires on road. I don't really have many rides on the CX tires but the rear tire sure has seen better days, I'd imagine I'd have to get new tyres about thrice as fast if not faster as my 28mm schwalbe durano's lasted me about 2 ish years and still had plenty tread life on them but had some sidewall damage.
I did a test between a road bike and cx bike at 250w over a 2 mile paved out and back. 25mm gp4000@85/100 psi and 35mm Gravelking Sk@35/40 psi. Same average wattage only netted 1/2mph difference for the road. I wouldn't race it, but I'd ride my gravel setup on the group coffee ride with 0 hesitation.
I have a road bike and a mountain bike, but since I put a set of low rolling resistance Maxxis Hookworms on my old Huffy beach cruiser, I ride that so much more. Every day between 8 and 30 miles. "It ain't the bike, it's the tires".
I ride wtb byway 47mm tubeless tire with 2.5 bar on the road with group race rides and most of my times I ride on my race with 28mm tire with 6,5bar conti 4000 with inner tube I also ride with power meter but the group rides with my gravel I get a normalized power of 250 and with race 220watt I did some solo tests on a 3km road same day same wind conditions and so with same power 250watt I had a avarage speed on my gravel of 31,1 and with my race of 33,2km/h I know the wtb byway is almost a road tire. but tells me a bit howmuch more effort I have to put in when riding my gravel bike on the road :) Also few weeks ago we had a climb with our group ride 6% avarage over 1km first part smooth asfalt last part koppelsstones. first part I had to hang on and almost got dropped, when we hid the koppels, I rode past every one with ease :)
Yupp, same here. 6 bar 28mm Vittoria Corsa G+ on my road bike, and 2,4bar 50mm G-One Speed Tubeless and my gravelbike - a good 2kph speed difference around the 30kph mark between both bikes. the road bike rolls noticeable further when off power and climbs much better (3kg difference). its also quicker to accelerate due to around 1kg less rotating mass. the gravel bike on the other hand flies over cobbles and bad roads and drops any roadies there. (oh, and of course it can go on gravel ;) ) nobby tires, like the gravelking sk however add noticeable amount more drag over the fat almost-slicks.
i think the biggest diffrence is the grip while cornering i witched from 38mm Hutchinson overrides to 32mm bontrager R3s and the speed diffrence in corners is huge
I use gravel tyres not just for confidence off road, but also for a more comfortable ride *on* road because of the state of the UK's roads, most of which are so rough and potholed that they might as well be gravel...
This tires had same width? Nice interesting test! I cyclin with a Riverside 500 bike grom Decathlon with 28 inch wheels and 28 width! Is a very good cheap bike and nice to ride!
Would be great to have two sets of tyres but unfortunately, I have to choose only one. Given the lack of faith I have towards road tyres on gravel, I will have to live with been a little slower or not been able to go as far. Thanks guys. Good test.
Just time your fav gravel strava segment of say 5KM approx ideally. See what you can get on pure road bike, gravel bike, and gravel bike with aero bars, and maybe 2 different tire pressures, a low and a high pressure, maybe 25PSI and 45PSI on the 38c or whatever. Whether a slick or a knobby is faster at the same size tire would be interesting because I expect knobbies are not good for speed on gravel.
I can say descending on a steep gravel road on my 25mm continental 4000s is terrifying. Never let myself get over 45kph. Even at that speed I can feel the front wheel pushing side to side as it looses contact with the ground. Don’t even think about getting out of the saddle climbing either cause all you’re going to do is spin the back wheel and waste your effort. Would like to find a good compromise tire for my 75/25 tarmac to gravel/so broken may as well be gravel tarmac. If I had that I might be tempted to pick a few different routes to include some more gravel. For a bit more safety and scenery.
You can tell it is a science experiment at 5:50 when 45.8 is rounded to 46. Still, if Emma was doing the experiment, she would round it to 2 being an engineer
I commuted for years on a cyclo cross bike. I would use the bike for everything, and during the summer ran 20 spoke wheels & road tyres. By midwinter I would be on lightweight 32mm cyclo cross tyres and 30 spoke wheels. I never noticed the difference when I switched tyres, but it was obvious when I switched wheels. There. That's science.
Give the job to someone with a reasonable 5 to 10 mile traffic free commute, one week on the posh road tyres and another week on the so-called gravel tyres. Get their Strava timings and see if there is a pattern. This needs a multi surface ride ideally with power meter and time data to complete the course. Often commutes are done under race style conditions to get to work in time, there is no hanging about. If the test is replicated with several runs on a fixed, well known course (the commute) you should be able to see what is faster.
That's very good thinking. I think a week might not be long enough, though. Alternating week-to-week over three months would give more reliable results.
I commute 10 miles a day on my Boardman ADV 8.9 with 40mm WTB Nano tyres, and a Trek Alpha 1.5 with 25mm Conti GP4000. My times hardly vary more than a few seconds. I’m probably quicker on the gravel bike due to having better brakes and being able to keep my speed up on the crap surfaces that pass for roads in the UK
@@armadillito I think you are right. Someone needs to nominate themselves to do this important A/B testing. Just a commuter routine with the same route, tyres swapped weekly and inflated at the same time. Apart from anything else a lot changes in the lifetime of a tyre and it is how it works six months later that matters. Same rider, same conditions, same bike, same route, all on Strava.
Would have loved Chris to be performing sprints uphill with both tires and different surfaces. It's always uphill and front wind for all of us. Actually both tests should've been on level ground or nearly similar leveled ground and compared on power used through distance at or time. nevertheless it wouldn't be scientific anyway.
The problem with the smooth roller isn't necessarily its smoothness, but rather the fact that it touches the wheel over a smaller area. This deforms the wheel much more than it would over tarmac, which probably shifts the results in favor of narrower and harder tires.
but that's not all they tested, did they?
@@kalashnikovcortez1380 No. It was merely a remark on Ollies comment "This is all well and good, and it does give an indication as to the difference in rolling resistance between the two tires and the different pressures, but its not entirely representative of the real world on these perfectly smooth rollers".
Even if the contact area is smaller it is equal for all types of tires, so it doesn't give advantage to any particular type of tires.
@@andreip9378 Unless the relationship between deformation and rolling resistance is exactly linear it won't be the same for all tires. Even if it is linear this would only mean that the relative difference is the same (between the tires on asphalt and on the roller), which directly implies that the absolute difference in watts cant be the same.
Ulrik Seip The harder, narrower tire will always be faster on a good surface, as long as you have grip. When you slip and crash, or have a flat, it is suddenly much slower.
It indeed is comparing apples and oranges.
I appreciate this test because I take my gravel bike (with gravel tires) out with my roadie friends and now I can explain why I just can keep up with them instead dropping them.
might be worth getting a set of road specific tyres for those rides!
I don't know about y'all but I was rooting for the gravel tires.
I didn't care, but I do like your avatar.
LMAO
I was expecting to see how much faster since thats the title. All i got was "yes faster 👍".
To sum this video up:
Presenter: skinny tire went further Ollie.
Ollie: yes... it, did...
Both: look at camera, blank stares, end scene.
This test would be useful comparing different gravel tire patterns for those that want the best hybrid tyre for road and gravel use. Your proposed sequel would be quite obvious - the road tires would never ride a gravel course to even begin competing with the gravel tires, but probably more comparable on the reverse on tarmac.
Rollers apply friction much differently than a smooth road. Yes, please do efforts on smooth road and gravel and compare power, would love to see that!!
Philip Andrews can you elaborate on the differences? I’m genuinely curious.
@@ichallengemydog Sure no problem, the fact that the rollers are cylindrical (with a quite small diameter relative to the size of the wheel) means that the contact pressure is more acute when compared to a flat road. The smaller the roller diameter, the deeper the deflection of the tire, and road is basically and infinite diameter roller. This deeper tire deflection means that rollers are much more sensitive to tire pressure, texture, pattern, etc. Sorry it's hard to explain much more without using additional science that I'd have to look into more myself. From personal experience, changing tire pressure slightly doesn't make much difference on the road but makes a biger change on rollers because the tire deforms so much more. Honestly have never ridden rollers with knobby tires but with that more acute pressure there's no way the knobs contact the rollers the same way they do on the road. I could be wrong though 🤷
@@ichallengemydog maybe a bit more simple and visual: the strong deformation of the tyre (see video), which gets amplified a LOT more with lower pressures than on a flat road surface basically means not only more friction but basically, that you have to get up an INCLINE at the same time (just look at the angle of the deformed tyre in the direction of spin). it is as if you were to cycle up a hill ;) hope you can picture that
The weight of the tires plays a huge difference. I own a gravel bike and have 2 sets of wheels. 1 with 42 gravels and the other with 28 slicks. The 28s make it feel like I am flying.
Thank you for posting this. I was shaking my head immediately and about to post my own reply before I did a Ctrl-F "smooth" and found your reply the 2nd one down. This is a terrible comparison. They should get on a large drum wheel from a car dyno and apply different traction surfaces to get a better idea.
That’s some very smooth gravel! It would be interesting to try this test on a surface with a bit more grit.
That was a fascinating test. I didn't actually realise there would be that much of a performance loss in switching to gravel tires. This makes me question my plan of switching from road tires to gravel tires. Thanks for providing this super useful information.
I feel the same way, i love the speed and easy rolling.
Two factors make it matter much less than seems in the real world 1) Drag is proportional to speed squared. 2) No surface is smooth like a roller - and softer tyres absorb the bumps without pushing the whole bike pack. Even small ripples affect it.
Going GK slicks at 32c, was thinking about getting 35c, but I don't want to lose speed @@SksToTheMini14
Nice job, guys! Despite the comments, reasonably well done. I use my cross/gravel bike (Giant TCX w 40mm tires) as a training bike on local bike trails & intervals, & ...gravel. Makes riding my road bikes (w 25 or 28mm tires) easier.
Yep it certainly does Dan!!
... sustained 45kph: Chris Opie is my hero. Great subject - I'm sure it's pretty much top of mind for most of us
On the road yeah.... road tires on the rollers (esp. if you've got large diameter ones), not that bad!
@@tychoMX I've heard that Chris Opie has large diameter ones...
Try the 45 mph test on wet gravel and see which tire does better
Sounds impossible... unless your Superman...
Sorry, but the realy power was only appr. 150W. Ok? Weight of driver is round 70Kg. (after big breakfast :-)
Downforce 700 Newton, 45 km/h are 12,5 m/s and a rolling coificent of 0,005 (GP 5000) gives 43,7 Watt!
Suggest the graveltire needs 3 time more power....150W.
IF the ergometer simulates also the wind resistance, then the power could also be true ,-)
I was looking for exactly this video, because I wanted to know whether I need a road tire or not. Many thanks for this timely upload.
Depending on how much gravel vs tarmac you ride, you might look into the Rene Herse 700x38 Steilacoom or 700x42 Hurrican Ridge. Ted King is winning 100+ mile gravel races on these, and supposedly they roll very well on tarmac.
Michelin jets, kenda happy mediums, most any file tread cyclocross tire work on every surface. True, only 33-35mm but how often do you need more? These tires are great gravel tires and make group rides on the road a much more demanding ride, which is necessary if you re the alpha in the group and riding with your freinds requires you to back off a bit.
Nice comparison! It would have even been better if you included a fat 40mm slick tyre :-)
this would be great info to have!!!
Yup -- something like the Compass (now Rene Herse) Barlow Pass or Snoqualmie Pass, run tubeless (on a rim with a hook bead!). Another fun test would have been to take these knobbies and shave off the knobs so we can know that the casing is the same.
Yes definitely, I ride Challenge 33mm Stradas and they feel as quick as 28mm Corsas. This would be super useful to test.
@@ericpmoss Yeah I'm running the barlow passes.. they feel super fast..
results would have been the same. The 28mm beat the 40mm by almost 20m on pavement!! That's a significant distance in a short rolldown.
Wow, I am commuting all year around, using GP 5000s (late spring, summer and fall), Schwalbe winter marathons (winter) and G-Ones (early spring). I would never have guessed the differences to be this huge! I have just bought myself a power meter, so I will probably do some own testing. Very interesting subject, thanks for interesting video!
How did these tests go mate ?
@@tharinduwickramasooriya873, not so good - I never recorded anything. And I have stopped communting with my bike now. 😞
Continental 4 season 32mm tyres, avg 30,5 km whenever i ride it, and also good for gravel/tarmac/and Belgium roads here!😉👍
Conti 4Season is a great tyre for bumpy, cold and/or wet roads (and even typical "big city" roads with lots of threats like shards etc.) - but the GP5000 is MUCH faster. whenever I switch back from the 4season to GP in spring time it feels like doping. (and it comes with a 32 version too)
I'm not usually much of a TH-cam commenter, but I have to tell you both how much I appreciate your videos. I'm a nerd by nature and maybe a *budding* cyclist, who's probably way too deep into the weeds of the physics of making my bike faster without nearly the same work ethic on making myself stronger. This is exactly the kind of data I was looking for in setting up my commuter. Thank you guys so much.
Great test! I would really like to have seen something like 32mm gravel vs 32mm slicks though. How much would I save on my 40 min commute by swapping out my gravel tyres with road tyres ?
Exactly, these people dont know what the mass public wants.
Probably Bugger all in reality. I used 25mm tyres and switched to 32m gravel king SK. 1 minute difference over a 10 mile commute (traffic lights make more of a difference). Not worth worrying about and the comfort and puncture protect was hugely increased.!
Swapped put my 28c road tyres for 32c gravel Kings over the winter, not as spritely as road tyres, and not as fast, but certainly good enough, plus I've been going off road a bit when the mood takes me
@@guybrushthreepwood3002 everything is a compromise I guess. I prefer the comfort and freedom over speed 😎
@@Northernerdownsouth you can get all of the above with 32 or wider gp5000s or other high quality road tires. Virtually unflattable, super fast rolling, great grip and a boost in comfort. Go tubeless if possible for extra flexibility on pressures
Would have been nice to see a comparison of different pressures for the same width gravel tire ... or compare a 38mm to 47mm gravel tire at same or different pressures. These would be useful!
This is good information for bicycle touring, where people have to keep the tire choice they made for their trip.
I would like to see a test of touring tires carrying heavier loads.
Interesting - bicycle quarterly did a similar test but with slick, very supple compass tyres on imperfect tarmac and they basically found that rolling resistance decreed as they tyres got bigger until they reached 28c at which point rolling resistance pretty much levelled out until they reached absurdly large volumes of over 50c - they also found that tyre pressure has little to no impact in rolling resistance, so long as the tyres are slick, supple and light-weight.
Ding ding ding ding ding you sir are the winner! 👍👍👍
Jan Heine & Co., have proved that this BS is nonsense once again gcn proving their ignorance and lack of understanding when it comes to Scientific experimentation inductive reasoning and actual analysis
Thank you for bringing this up. It’s actual best tested in doing Strava segments with different setups. My experience has been that 44mm slicks roll as good as 28mm on tarmac and much faster on bad taac and gravel. No doubt whatsoever. Just let the masses ride their skinnies and suffer bumpy rides for no reason.
Long ago, I disregarded the
*'Conventional Wisdom'* and have often utilized 38mm - 60mm (99-123mm) tires on Mountain (& FatTire) Bikes - *OnAsphalt*...
My Klein QuantumII & LeMond 'RoadBikes' have almost 200 miles on 28mm (Max) Tires - after 4 years... (while)
My On*One Fatty with 4"/99mm FatTires has been ridden over 345miles - On ONE Weekend...!!!
My Trek Farley EX8 Full-Suspension FatTire MountainBike gets more mileage a month than all my (so-called) 'RoadBikes' and 'TouringBikes' put together for the year...
(My Brevet Randonnee Bike used for 100k-600k 'Road' Rides is an older MountainBike with Serfas Drifters or Continental Town&Country Tires...)
The extra "Cush" and Comfort, how little it may seem, really Adds Up after 35miles and 5000' of Vertical on Gravel Jeep and SingleTrack... but we continue with some Asphalt and more Gravel and Jeep Trails for another 40miles and 3400', and gave up early to 'avoid' the so-called "easy half" of the Irreverent Ride 8.0 (IRR8.0)...
NEXT YEAR 77mm Tires!!!
(and none of this 44mm so-called "Faster Tires" nonsense...)
too bad i cant find that test anywhere... i suppose its only in magazine? which is a shame really
@@biziluxgames8924 janheine.wordpress.com/2018/01/03/12-myths-in-cycling-1-wider-tires-are-slower/
The Gopro mount is a great addition. The perspective is really cool. Got myself one a few weeks ago. Couldnt try it yet since my collarbone is still broken, but its really cool to see you use it👍
Ouch, hope that heals up soon!
@@gcntech Thank you. Looking forward to ride again
Wow chaps, you deserve a thumbs up just for the amount of times you swapped out the tyres!! May I suggest that next time you procure a couple of cheap wheelsets (assuming the budget can't stretch Zipps).
Using cheaper wheels will have a minimal effect on results. Then again, on the flip side, changing so many tyres may have strengthened your "thumbs up" 😁😁😂👍👍👍👍
There is no 👍 big enough, honestly.
I doubt they pay for almost any of their gear. They’re a massive ad platform for their sponsors
you guys finally have found the steepest hill in England, i see
Better call Hans Rey to find the correct line for this crazy adventure.
@@geoffreyanderson4719 Hans rey, oldschool af
the elevation is insane on this one
The second test should have been climbing up a muddy hill. I'd like to see a road tire do that ;)
the roadbiker would just call his mechanic, who'd drive him up the hill in the backup car xD
the road would DNF
That's like driving an f1 off road..
@@MarvinatioN26 just getting a looooong drink of water.
The Terra Speed is not meant for wet but it would still be usable of course.
A better argument is what would happen in winter countries near winter when roads sometimes have a bit of snow and ice - can't use the road tires at all or it's certain death.
Cool video. What I would’ve like to see is a test similar to the ones you did on the rollers, but outside. Just find a flat smooth section of road, ride at the same power, but use different tires and pressures to see how long it takes to go a set distance. This would also account for aerodynamics of the tire. The only variable might be the wind, but you could repeat the efforts enough times to mostly eliminate that.
Or run the test at an indoor bicycle track.
The roller test exaggerates the tire differences, due to the more severe deformation.
I'd be intrigued to see where the "crossover" point might be in conditions is where the various gravel tyres (and there's a lot of variety) take over from road tyres in performance. My commuter/gravel bike has a pair of "light gravel" tyres on there, and the roads are so bad around me that I'm fairly certain they're just as quick as my road tyres most days.
Can these two just make ALL the videos together?! Wonderful job guys.
I would prefer to see tests comparing these two types of tires on a road and with a speed that average cyclist ride, like 30 km/h. Test like that might be extremely useful for someone considering buying a bike with drop handlebars
If you've got the power 30 kphs is not hard to reach. I run a pair of Continental Race King (2.0) on my adventure bike and 30 kph is no sweat.
For me on the same course and same bike but with 40mm tyres I manage 27 km/h avg and with road tyres 28mm it is 32 km/h if that helps. After 20 km/h there is also AERO factor so the road bike would be more aero and also you need different set up for position for off road so that also affects aero.
For me, on the road, on the same bike (my cross bike) the difference between 40mm knobbies with "fast rolling lugs" (Maxis Ramblers) and 32/28mm slick tires (Sector 32s/28s) is at least 1mph (1.6kph) of speed at the same watts over the same course riding at around on the upper side of my endurance pace. But there is a rim difference there too, so that difference might be exaggerated a bit due to aerodynamic gains and a couple pounds/1kg or so of weight being shaved off as well. If I am riding closer to high end tempo pace the difference can become more exaggerated, closer to a 3mph/5kph difference but this is likely again due to aerodynamic gains as much as rolling resistance. And it gets even higher if I was going all out. I run everything tubeless if that matters.
If you want to go by gear ratio, riding fast at the high end of tempo, on the downhill side of a roller or a false flat / light descent, I'd be riding in a 13 or 12 on the cassette on the 32mm tires in places I'd be riding on a 15 or 13 on the 40s with the same watts, and spinning the cranks a bit faster too as well.
Or for another perspective, I can keep up while riding in a pace line with Cat 2-3ish road cyclists or 50+ masters (I'm old) on my slicks/carbon rims. But not on the knobbies/heavier aluminum rims, I'll blow up and fall off the back and get dropped. Due to aero and possibly weight when hammering it up hills, which is how they like to do things. I'm a skinny 59kg dude, so 2# of extra weight probably does matter to me in that scenario.
That said, I still *like* riding the 40s a lot of the time because they are more comfortable on a rough road of which there are many here. And I can take the knobbies out on mild single track which is a blast on a cross bike.
So I just swap out depending on what I'm doing.
Personally, I have a gravel bike for the confidence in loose and rough conditions such as cracks and potholes or gravel. However, I can easily throw some road tires on it and use it as a road bike. The only thing with mine is it isn't am aero bike (if that's what you're into) but it is definitely more durable for those rougher conditions.
@@davethedogdude I've been breaking PRs on a Canyon Grail this summer, on the road, after coming back from an accident in late May. Today I pick up a new road bike and am terribly, terribly interested to do my own "real world test" of how much faster the road tires (and bike) will be. FYI, I've been blown away with how fast the Grail rolls down hill on the road - most of the time I'm passing all the road bikes, even when I'm not pedaling. It's the uphills that make me work really hard.
I found this presentation really useful particularly in the scenario where a long tour/expedition ride that may include both off-road/gravel and on-road conditions. I would be tempted to fit robust gravel tyres but tests like this give me some indication of the price I would pay (in increased energy consumption) when going onto the tarmac road.
Christopher X,
Don’t make any decisions based on these tests. You should really take into consideration what you’re likely to ride on, and then figure it out. Even riding on a rough asphalt road, a lower tire pressure can make a big difference in overall comfort. Comfort has a big impact on how “tired” you may feel afterwards. Sure you may burn 1050 calories vs 1000, but if you hands aren’t numb afterwards...etc.
Thanks guys lots of effort went into this!
On the 'road' side of things, it would be neat to have a comparison of the 19mm Continental Competition tubular vs. a 23mm (same tire).
I like "everyday-science". These tests where fun to watch and had some good insights. I am riding 2 tire options: 1. GP4000 28mm 2. GP 4Season 32mm (in "winter-times"). I find myself being about 3 km/h slower with the winter version (average somewhere 30km/h). To be honest I had to get used to that reduction of "road-fun" :-( BUT the grip on wet and cold roads in autumn/winter was MUCH better with the 4Season. MUCH better! Next autumn I will get back to the 4Season. You always have that painful equation of comfort-safety-speed-durability-xyz. EVERY tire is a compromise. I found 2 good ones for my usage.
I'm typically about 2 MPH slower on my cross bike with Surly Knards than I am on the road bike with GP4000s. The only thing surprising about this to me was just how many more watts it took to maintain the same speed with the gravel tires at 40 psi vs the road tires at 90 psi. I'm feeling a lot better about my speed differential now.
Thanks for doing this comparison, guys!
I have been in need of a good winter bike for a while now. I bought a gravel bike because the country roads around where I live might as well be gravel on account of the detritus left by tractors and lorries. I have never felt safer and enjoyed not having to worry so much about the state of the roads. It has encouraged me out to ride on days I might have considered otherwise. Much more fun. The fact that road tyres go quicker is really not the point, entertaining though this video was. I might point out that I am a rider in my 60's. I do however look forward to getting my titanium road bike ot in the better weather.
Another video please! Can you do the same tests using a same tire but mounted tubeless -vs- tubed? (and try at various pressures of say 12psi, 20psi, 40psi and 70psi)
I replaced the knobby 32 mm tires in my B-Twin Triban 100 with Vittoria Zaffiros, 25 mm. front and 28 mm. rear. It really pays off during longer rides.
I love this Orbea Terra. Saw it in John's Bikes a year ago and wanted to steal it so bad
It's a beaut!
Hello from a manual wheelchair user. Could you please do one of your videos like this one for wheelchair users and builders to be able to make more informed choices about tyres. Nice video. Thank you.
Good test ! I bought a gravel bike but I usually do road and sometimes gravel, and I have 2.10" gravel tire and i use to run 100km easy with those, I can't imagine with just road tire 😊😎
I just went on a ride using gravel tires (Vittoria Terreno Dry 40mm) with my dad for fathers day that went on a bunch of roads I had recently done with road tires (Continental Gatorskin 32mm) and this sounds about right, although I think my Terreno Dry tires are a bit faster than those continentals cause they have a file tread.
I began doing gravel recently. On my first ride I chose a 36 miles route. On a regular asphalt road, that is medium size ride. On gravel, the only thing I measured is that I almost died of a heart attack! 😬 So much more effort to maintain the pace of asphalt on gravel. It took me about 60% more time to finish than what I would have done on asphalt.
You guys are the Mythbusters of Cycling 😄💪🏼
Heavy guy here. Will be looking at a gravel-like bike soon and IMHO 28mm is wide. I was used to having 23mm tires on my road bike.
What surprised me was the NOISE of the gravel tires on the rollers. I ride trikes on paved or hard packed trails and I was wondering if I should get a more all terrain tire.
These guys helped me alot.
My answer is....nope.
Gonna go hi pressure road tire
my cross bike got clearance for 48-50mm tyres. now running 700x33 will be swapping for 650x48 commuter tyres. it's gonna be a comfort ride
I absolutely love the things you guys/gals do on this channel and I have learnt so much and I’m just a hobby cyclist 😃but I’m totally hooked on all of you , keep up the awesome work cheers from Australia ❤️👍
Dunno why I have been watching this channel so much lately since I havent owned anything but MTBs
Maybe it’s your subconscious telling you to buy a road bike
rolling resistance is, well, rolling resistance. Gravel/larger tread tires provide more grip and control on loose surfaces. I think that's the science of how they are designed.
When we ride bikes, our power output needs to be transferred to the surface to create forward movement. Gravel tires have tread to enable this transfer on the rougher/loose surface, in conditions where a smooth tire would slip. It's like running on a track with trainers vs spikes. If you're just casually running (like coasting downhill) trainers would be somewhat equal to spikes, but as you start putting power down (like pedaling) spikes gain advantage as they're able to "grip" the surface.
Good analogy Samnelso
i ride specialized pathfinder pro's on my gravel bike, they have a raised slick center and on tarmac that's pretty much the only thing in contact
as a result even though they are 40mm wide and run them at lowish pressures they feel and go like road tyres
I ride a trike (Performer JC 70) and it came with Road Tires. But I am looking at replacing them with Gravel Tires because where I live there is far more gravel roads than paved roads. There is a primary 2 lane highway that has good paved conditions, a 2 lane secondary highway with no shoulders and lots of potholes and patch repairs. After that there are Super Grid gravel roads with a lot of loose gravel and then secondary grids with a wide variety of conditions from hard surface to rutted and rugged. I am not driving on trails. This is why I think something like a Schwalbe G-One R might be the best choice for me.
Nicely done comparisons. The energy output differences were a bit shocking, but consistent with “seat of the pants” subjective impressions.
you need to test in a situation that traction is required, make it uphill in gravel!
Good video guys. Keep it up I love this channel.
I just swapped my Schwalbe G-ones (38mm) for Conti Terraspeed's (40mm) and trundled off for my regular weekend 60km ride. BIG difference!! Worked my arse off to be slower. Handling on fast corners on Tarmac/concrete is a bit dicey too on the Conti's. Feels like the back end keeps stepping out. I swapped because I kept getting punctures on the Schwalbe's. We'll see how it goes.....
Might be worth playing around with the pressure you run your tyres at - this might help correct problems with handling
I have two similar(ish) carbon road bikes - an S-Works Roubaix that runs 28mm Conti GP 4000s and a Merida Ride 7000 that runs 35mm Schwalbe G Ones. I honestly can't (unscientifically) tell the difference in speed on a tarmac road. The G Ones are ridiculously smoother on rough bitumen and stupidly better on gravel. For me, on all surfaces and multi surfaced rides (which is almost all of my rides), the 35mm G Ones win.
Hi Jack. Great feedback. The Schwalbe G ones I assume you are referring to the G One "Allround" version & not the "Speed" model? If you don't mind me asking what weight you are and the tyre pressures you are running please? Cheers. Alan
Similar experience here, in that Gravelking SK/X-one and Smart Sams on the gravel bike all seem to be as fast as I was on a full road bike, i suspect air drag has more effect, and I love the grip/pot hole taming.
I'm riding the Schwalbe G-One Allround MicroSkin TL-Easy Folding Road Tyre. I bought them on either Wiggle or CRC for about Aus $75 and according to their website they weigh 400g each. I ride them anywhere between 30-50psi. Highly recommended.@@alanbenham4139
@@jackseph03 Cheers Jack. That's very much appreciated. Having not had much experience with off the offroad & onroad pressures I was interested to learn of your experiences. I have a set of the same, running them tubeless, on my Trek Domane and do a bit of gravel / road riding with them on. I weigh 80kgs and run them at 60 psi for road only, 50 psi for a mix of road / gravel and if it is pure gravel then around 35-40psi. They are a great tyre, but I do notice the extra drag on the road compared to my Conti GP400s (25mm) running them at 85psi. Thanks again for your comments.
Thanks GCN! Now I know that a GP5000 rolls faster than a knobby gravel tire. Kidding. Love GCN.
You're welcome
I just loved the Bike Chris rode,the colour and the Brand lol.
It's a beauty!
Great comparison! I liked your Gravel vs. Road bike video as well. Last comparison you need to help people understand these bikes is Gravel Bike with road tires vs. Road Bike with road tires. I run road tires on my gravel bike for training, then swap wheels for Gravel events, trails etc...I would love to know how much my $1,600 gravel bike stacks up against a road bike apples to apples.
Do you feel much difference with the road tires on your gravel bike? I'm trying to decide whether to get a roadie in addition to my graveller, or to just get a set of road wheels and tires to swap out for pavement.
Great comparison! There are some gravel tires on the market that offer the best of both worlds. Problem is again APPLES to ORANGES... they suffer in other areas. My favorite tire to date is the Vittoria Torreno Dry G2.0. Fast rolling on most surfaces and the knobs on the outside help with tracking and cornering. Of course this is just my 2 cents or 2 p for you blokes on the other side of the pond. ;)
I would love to see this comparison 5:51 for 25, 28, 32mm road tires (same make and model) with different tire pressures.
I dont know about those widths. But I can tell you this. I bought a heavy ebike ADO A20F. 72LBS. And it came with knobbly mountain bike tyres.
With them I got only 11 miles range with an average speed of 18mph. And a top speed of 24.5mph.
A friend recommended I change them out for a set of SPEEDSTER honeycomb tyres. And I was STUNNED At the difference. I got 14 miles range at an average of 18mph. Over the same route. And a TOP SPEED OF 27MPH.
I'm sticking with the speedsters. I hold the PSI at 22.
Damn I had no idea it made this much of a diff. I knew it made a diff, but this is insane. Great video as always chaps.
You have to test pedalling on the gravel test, the comfort and cushioning factor would surely mean better power delivery on gravel
Try testing a given power output on a surface type, including corners?
Roll down tests are interesting, but don't tell us much about day to day riding.
These Muppets don't even understand what scientific and inductive reasoning are. They really reveal themselves as such under-educated dopes in Lycra! 🤣 I don't think they could even analyze boiling water 🙄🤦♂️
@@archetypex65 maybe you should educate yourself about Ollies background, lest your show yourself the uneducated one.
@@archetypex65 that's rather unfair: the method used in the test was perfectly valid, and the limits of the test were accepted at the time.
My original comment was more related to further testing which could be used. A roll down test is probably the most controlled test possible outdoors, but so controlled that it provides one piece of information which is of limited use in real world applications.
@@archetypex65 you must be another internet scientist who's always bitching about quality of data right? riiight on professor. You should have just recognized the limits of their simple experiment and take the data for what they were. Instead you just told the whole world how much of an internet scientist you really are, dummy.
@@archetypex65 Sounds like you're so entrenched in your dogma that you are too emotional to make a rational argument against their video, instead of using name calling to convince those reading these comments.
Although I have mixed feelings about the results...you still deserve points for the effort, the rain and the bike handling! Well done once again.
Nice video.
Idea for next test: 23 mm vs 25 mm vs 28 mm road tyres compared on the rollers.
I ride with 23 mm @ 8 bar / 123 psi.
The difference would be almost impossible to notice with their setup, results would be within 2 watts.
At the same pressure wider tyres roll faster, while at pressures you'd actually run the narrow tyres roll faster as shown here www.bicyclerollingresistance.com/specials/grand-prix-5000-comparison assuming a pretty smooth surface.
Narrow tyres have a much more significant aero advantage too, regardless of your rims.
Why? Who cares what the fastest tyre on rollers is?
NO difference at all absolutely zero difference in Rolling resistance from a 23 mm to a 28 mm. If you want real analysis real data credible data go check out Jan Heine on WordPress go to the section of tires there was a multitude of articles with years of testing sound reasoning and easy to understand analysis that makes these idiots look like a bunch of kindergarteners
@@bink281 exactly Greg! 👍
Impressive difference, this has definitely convinced me to get a slick wheelset for my Canyon Grail. Would be cool to see a comparison between the Grail (or another gravel bike) on slicks and a thoroughbred race bike on the same wheels and tyres. How much slower would it still be?
I’m considering this for my grail. That’s why I’m watching this. Did you purchase some slicks for your grail? How has it been?
@@geoffchambers4471 Got the Vittoria Corsa G2 Race 30mm. Really happy with these as I do a lot of distance on tarmac and the extra width compared to regular racing tyres makes it bearable to do up to ~20% gravel. Wouldn't recommend to try an all gravel route on these though, I still switch back to my 40mm tyres for that.
I would love to see an analysis of whether the difference in power requirement is impacted by the speed. I.e. is the ratio consistent of us performance more similar at less top end speeds
1) you should find either a road that has equal section of smooth tarmac, rough tarmac and gravel, or do separate tests with reasonable power output(not to overwhelm road tire on gravel section) on those 3 types of surface
2)do speedrun on same conditions as 1)
3)take 3 or 4 types of tire - road(maybe add 2 types of road tire), smooth, fat gravel and this type of gravel. maybe drop in xc bike on smth like schwalbes 2.35 fat g-one
I have two identical bikes, one fitted with 23c road tires and the other 32c gravel tires. I'm consistently around 2mph slower on the gravel tires but they're more comfortable and sure-footed.
So, you're telling me that I should train with gravel, race with road tires?
if you are on terrain like these guys are you would probably put 40mm slicks on.
Is it suitable for a road bike to use with gravel tires?
it depends on what your roads you are cycling on most of the time, in my case i really don't need gravel tires
@@nrsaification it depends of your bike fork. If it wide enough you can use any tire that you want.
@@nrsaification a bike shop (or Google sometimes) can help figure put how wide you can fit on your frame/fork, and theres no harm in going with the widest you can fit. A gravel bike with road tires can give best of both worlds, low resistance but more grip and comfort
Do a 15km ride @ 250w on both and compare the times
It's hard to keep up 250 Watts for 15 kilometers
@@dot286 unless using an electric bike :)
@@dot286 no?
@@dot286 Lol not for ex professional riders lol
Compare max cornering speed on loose gravel between those 2.....
Amazing differences aswell im sure..
when I see the difference in power in this video and compare it to my own experience: conti raceking race sport 2.2" mtb tyres v.s. conti p5000 25mm road ending up with only +- 2km/h speed difference around 30km/h on same intensity. My guess is that roller with offroad tires is just a very bad combination (they tend to flex around it as if it's a bump in the road).
Fun comparison, wish there had been a climbing test, say around 14% up a gravel fire road.
Cool test. Honestly, for most uses the road tire is better until the road gets technical or the surface has lots of sharp rocks that can puncture.
I saw a test the other day where they found the wider tyre actually had less rolling resistance on a flat surface (Road) as opposed to a skinny one with higher pressure. It was because the narrow spread length wise as opposed to width
Would be good to see similar tests of big wheels vs brompton. e.g. how much more power required to ride same speed on brompton vs road bike, both smooth surface, and actual road surfaces. Just can't bring myself to put a power meter on a brommie to find out for myself. Lap of Richmond Park would make a good surface. Feel free to test slick kojaks vs the marathons so many people prefer to avoid punctures.
+1
I'd have liked to see the roller test being done on the tarmac track. The difference in surface might have made a difference.
I've just been doing my own experiment. I have a cyclocross bike and had been using 35mm CX tyres. With most of my cycling being on road, I switched to 28mm road tyres. I cycle alone, so I'm not keeping up with a group - it's just about putting in about the same effort for similar ride durations. There's been little difference in overall ride speed but the comfort is reduced over even small blemishes in road surface. However, last night I was back on light(ish) gravel and the difference was huge - the road tyre grip was poor and it was *much* less comfortable to the point that I had to back off.
The road tyres are at 70/90psi (F/R) and the CX tyres are at road friendly 50/70psi.
I'll persist for a little longer but, as it stands, the CX tyres are better all round for me.
Valid points I'd have to agree with you on some points but I'll add that I really hated how fast I was wearing out my CX tires on road. I don't really have many rides on the CX tires but the rear tire sure has seen better days, I'd imagine I'd have to get new tyres about thrice as fast if not faster as my 28mm schwalbe durano's lasted me about 2 ish years and still had plenty tread life on them but had some sidewall damage.
Ridiculous.
It would be interesting to see a test with a wide smooth tire with supple sidewalls, see for example Rene Herse, nee Compass Cycles.
I did a test between a road bike and cx bike at 250w over a 2 mile paved out and back. 25mm gp4000@85/100 psi and 35mm Gravelking Sk@35/40 psi. Same average wattage only netted 1/2mph difference for the road. I wouldn't race it, but I'd ride my gravel setup on the group coffee ride with 0 hesitation.
Sorry, .15mph, not 1/2. Minimal difference.
I like the re-aperance of the cheap bike in the background of the roller
I have a road bike and a mountain bike, but since I put a set of low rolling resistance Maxxis Hookworms on my old Huffy beach cruiser, I ride that so much more. Every day between 8 and 30 miles. "It ain't the bike, it's the tires".
Great test! Great use of science! Thanks!
I ride wtb byway 47mm tubeless tire with 2.5 bar on the road with group race rides and most of my times I ride on my race with 28mm tire with 6,5bar conti 4000 with inner tube
I also ride with power meter but the group rides with my gravel I get a normalized power of 250 and with race 220watt
I did some solo tests on a 3km road same day same wind conditions and so with same power 250watt I had a avarage speed on my gravel of 31,1 and with my race of 33,2km/h
I know the wtb byway is almost a road tire. but tells me a bit howmuch more effort I have to put in when riding my gravel bike on the road :)
Also few weeks ago we had a climb with our group ride 6% avarage over 1km first part smooth asfalt last part koppelsstones. first part I had to hang on and almost got dropped, when we hid the koppels, I rode past every one with ease :)
Yupp, same here. 6 bar 28mm Vittoria Corsa G+ on my road bike, and 2,4bar 50mm G-One Speed Tubeless and my gravelbike - a good 2kph speed difference around the 30kph mark between both bikes. the road bike rolls noticeable further when off power and climbs much better (3kg difference). its also quicker to accelerate due to around 1kg less rotating mass. the gravel bike on the other hand flies over cobbles and bad roads and drops any roadies there. (oh, and of course it can go on gravel ;) )
nobby tires, like the gravelking sk however add noticeable amount more drag over the fat almost-slicks.
i think the biggest diffrence is the grip while cornering i witched from 38mm Hutchinson overrides to 32mm bontrager R3s and the speed diffrence in corners is huge
I use gravel tyres not just for confidence off road, but also for a more comfortable ride *on* road because of the state of the UK's roads, most of which are so rough and potholed that they might as well be gravel...
This tires had same width? Nice interesting test! I cyclin with a Riverside 500 bike grom Decathlon with 28 inch wheels and 28 width! Is a very good cheap bike and nice to ride!
Would be great to have two sets of tyres but unfortunately, I have to choose only one. Given the lack of faith I have towards road tyres on gravel, I will have to live with been a little slower or not been able to go as far. Thanks guys. Good test.
I can’t afford all that fancy equipment... but when I switched my gravel tires on my ebike to some smooth tires I noticed a huge difference...
Just time your fav gravel strava segment of say 5KM approx ideally. See what you can get on pure road bike, gravel bike, and gravel bike with aero bars, and maybe 2 different tire pressures, a low and a high pressure, maybe 25PSI and 45PSI on the 38c or whatever. Whether a slick or a knobby is faster at the same size tire would be interesting because I expect knobbies are not good for speed on gravel.
Great video, always improved by seeing Oli run.
Excellent! Thanks guys!
I can say descending on a steep gravel road on my 25mm continental 4000s is terrifying. Never let myself get over 45kph. Even at that speed I can feel the front wheel pushing side to side as it looses contact with the ground. Don’t even think about getting out of the saddle climbing either cause all you’re going to do is spin the back wheel and waste your effort. Would like to find a good compromise tire for my 75/25 tarmac to gravel/so broken may as well be gravel tarmac. If I had that I might be tempted to pick a few different routes to include some more gravel. For a bit more safety and scenery.
You can tell it is a science experiment at 5:50 when 45.8 is rounded to 46. Still, if Emma was doing the experiment, she would round it to 2 being an engineer
Don't feed the engineers.
I commuted for years on a cyclo cross bike. I would use the bike for everything, and during the summer ran 20 spoke wheels & road tyres. By midwinter I would be on lightweight 32mm cyclo cross tyres and 30 spoke wheels. I never noticed the difference when I switched tyres, but it was obvious when I switched wheels. There. That's science.
Summer in the UK? Nice.
Oh yes. Tropical.
excellent tips now i know what tyre to choose
Give the job to someone with a reasonable 5 to 10 mile traffic free commute, one week on the posh road tyres and another week on the so-called gravel tyres. Get their Strava timings and see if there is a pattern.
This needs a multi surface ride ideally with power meter and time data to complete the course. Often commutes are done under race style conditions to get to work in time, there is no hanging about. If the test is replicated with several runs on a fixed, well known course (the commute) you should be able to see what is faster.
That's very good thinking. I think a week might not be long enough, though. Alternating week-to-week over three months would give more reliable results.
I commute 10 miles a day on my Boardman ADV 8.9 with 40mm WTB Nano tyres, and a Trek Alpha 1.5 with 25mm Conti GP4000. My times hardly vary more than a few seconds. I’m probably quicker on the gravel bike due to having better brakes and being able to keep my speed up on the crap surfaces that pass for roads in the UK
@@armadillito I think you are right. Someone needs to nominate themselves to do this important A/B testing. Just a commuter routine with the same route, tyres swapped weekly and inflated at the same time. Apart from anything else a lot changes in the lifetime of a tyre and it is how it works six months later that matters. Same rider, same conditions, same bike, same route, all on Strava.
Hope you put this test through an ethics committee Oli.
Would have loved Chris to be performing sprints uphill with both tires and different surfaces. It's always uphill and front wind for all of us.
Actually both tests should've been on level ground or nearly similar leveled ground and compared on power used through distance at or time. nevertheless it wouldn't be scientific anyway.