I cramp mentally at some of the concepts presented here. 1. 0:53, the idea that rocker slows a board b/c it adds length is false. The difference in immersed length between otherwise equal boards of different rocker is so small as to practially immeasurable. 2. Next, realize that the force on a moving surfboard that can be viewed as a vector acting perpendicular to the plane of the surface (lift). A force vector in the front of a rockered board can be resolved into one vector that is perpendicular and another that is tangential to the board's surface. Thus, a board with more rocker will experience a greater perpendicular vector, slowing the board. 3. 1:08 two boards of different rocker, with the same surfer, will displace equal amounts of water. Note that any volume that is above the water surface does not contribute to flotation. However, a rockered board will paddle slower b/c the (more deeply immersed) nose has to push water aside. Other things equal, a flatter board will push aside less water so it paddles faster., and, for the same reason, rides faster. 4. 1:17 the idea that a low rocker board "doesn't fit the curve of the wave" is seeing things backward. Surfing is very much about TURNS, and the whole idea, indeed the requirement, is to displace or redirect water. Note too that a turn uses only perhaps the back third of the board, making rocker (front or back) that isn't in the water, irrelevant. 5. 1:58 the idea that concave causes the effective length of a board to be longer, is just nuts (trying to be polite here). See #1. What happens when a board crosses a little chop or wind riffle? The nose touches that water further forward, thus making the wetted surface longer. Sadly, we don't surf waves smooth enough such that rocker will/not make a difference for the reason stated. The illustration showing water paths from the tip of the nose is irrelevant - no one surfs with full length contact - that's on the razor edge of pearling. BTW, I don't think anyone rides a 10' board at Pipe (anymore) so that's an extreme example, even if it were not inappropriate. I realize that exaggeration serves to make an example clearer, but that's just not appropriate. The shot of a late, grab-rail drop clearly shows that the nose is nowhere near the water surface. The "extra nose that will tend to..." just isn't so. 6. 4:32, so just what are the nose and tail rocker measurements on the board pictured, and how do they compare to other stock boards? 7. Measuring rocker at nose and tail is okay, but only if the board is tangential at the midpoint. Otherwise (given that the wide point isn't at the center, and the board is wider/heavier at the tail, the measured nose rocker will be exaggerated. I've tried to set a board tangential at the midpoint, and it's not an easy thing, since being off by only a few degrees makes a big difference in measured rocker. Easy to do on the computer, hard in real life. 5:52, there hadn't ought to be bubbles at the nose in the glass job. Closing, let me suggest that some of the claims made can be true, though not for the reasons claimed. Back story, I've made my own boards since 1968 and have been a practicing engineer in Honolulu since 1984. Doesn't make me a pro, or commercially successful; my comments are worth what you paid for them unless you find a useful physical interpretation.
The bottom line (no pun intended) is that pretty much every shaper has a different take on what makes a surfboard go. It's pretty unscientific I'd say. I'll definitely listen to them but I'll keep an open mind to what other experienced shapers are saying. I guess what really matters is satisfied customers. A guy like Glen who's been shaping boards for many years, for the best surfers, who ride the most challenging waves on the planet, is clearly doing something right.
This is all true. However I believe that we have compromised our surfing by getting so low in volume. Example , mason hoe on his 7'6 at pipe tottaly dominated the tubes that day. I'm sure his father taught him well. Ya he can do it on any board but , when you see people people's board speed wobbling in the tube and having to do 2 bottum turns to get up the face , the board is to small for the speed of the wave. Then when they turn the board or the rider can't handle keeping the rail in the water and it wants to not stick with you. Curren, Carrol and Mark Richards never had a problem turning a 6'4 or even a 6'6 . I know they didn't do airs either. Just don't compromise your surfing for years by riding a 5'8 in 6 to 8 foot surf. Your only hurting yourself and catching less waves. These guys know what there talking about
What the pros do, with what, and where, is largely irrelevant to most of us. Most of the pros are unnaturally gifted, example the old saying that Slater could ride Pipe on a door, or some such. Using pros and their surfing as examples for the rest of us is largely, simply, marketing. There's a sh*t-ton of money to be made, and a little thing like truth isn't going to be allowed to stand in the way.
Simply, no. Concave is largely decoration, even on longboard noseriders. Water is a fluid and will flow wherever pressure pushes it. Concaves simply can't contain water, it will rush off to the sides and back, providing no lift.
@@charlesschuster7963 not sure I understand what you're saying of if you understand what I said. I have noticed that my boards I've had that have concave starting up front tend to not catch the wave as easily or drop in, that's been my personal experience.
Not necessarily. Boards can have more nose rocker and/or less tail rocker therefore shifting that low point. Also, some boards have a very low or flat rocker making that "low point" a larger area on the bottom of the board. It varies from model to model.
Isn't it also where u sit and approach. If u want to sit inside a little and drop in under the lip u need a lot of rocker and smaller board. If u want to get pitted and not fly past the bowl a smaller board helps. If your heavier and sit outside its a little different, ya no?
3:30 “a lot of the good guys are riding smaller boards in bigger waves” meanwhile I’m trying figure out dims of a step up so I can ride bigger waves lol
@@TandCSurf Just look at the water coming off your rail on your next wave and think/envision what is happening. All the information you need is right there.
Not so, flat boards are fast. But who needs a fast board? Notice that a smaller hollow wave will have a smaller radius of curvature than a large hollow wave.
Another brilliant film. Well done guys, absolutely superb series.
Mahalo!!
I cramp mentally at some of the concepts presented here.
1. 0:53, the idea that rocker slows a board b/c it adds length is false. The difference in immersed length between otherwise equal boards of different rocker is so small as to practially immeasurable.
2. Next, realize that the force on a moving surfboard that can be viewed as a vector acting perpendicular to the plane of the surface (lift). A force vector in the front of a rockered board can be resolved into one vector that is perpendicular and another that is tangential to the board's surface. Thus, a board with more rocker will experience a greater perpendicular vector, slowing the board.
3. 1:08 two boards of different rocker, with the same surfer, will displace equal amounts of water. Note that any volume that is above the water surface does not contribute to flotation. However, a rockered board will paddle slower b/c the (more deeply immersed) nose has to push water aside. Other things equal, a flatter board will push aside less water so it paddles faster., and, for the same reason, rides faster.
4. 1:17 the idea that a low rocker board "doesn't fit the curve of the wave" is seeing things backward. Surfing is very much about TURNS, and the whole idea, indeed the requirement, is to displace or redirect water. Note too that a turn uses only perhaps the back third of the board, making rocker (front or back) that isn't in the water, irrelevant.
5. 1:58 the idea that concave causes the effective length of a board to be longer, is just nuts (trying to be polite here). See #1. What happens when a board crosses a little chop or wind riffle? The nose touches that water further forward, thus making the wetted surface longer. Sadly, we don't surf waves smooth enough such that rocker will/not make a difference for the reason stated. The illustration showing water paths from the tip of the nose is irrelevant - no one surfs with full length contact - that's on the razor edge of pearling. BTW, I don't think anyone rides a 10' board at Pipe (anymore) so that's an extreme example, even if it were not inappropriate. I realize that exaggeration serves to make an example clearer, but that's just not appropriate. The shot of a late, grab-rail drop clearly shows that the nose is nowhere near the water surface. The "extra nose that will tend to..." just isn't so.
6. 4:32, so just what are the nose and tail rocker measurements on the board pictured, and how do they compare to other stock boards?
7. Measuring rocker at nose and tail is okay, but only if the board is tangential at the midpoint. Otherwise (given that the wide point isn't at the center, and the board is wider/heavier at the tail, the measured nose rocker will be exaggerated. I've tried to set a board tangential at the midpoint, and it's not an easy thing, since being off by only a few degrees makes a big difference in measured rocker. Easy to do on the computer, hard in real life.
5:52, there hadn't ought to be bubbles at the nose in the glass job.
Closing, let me suggest that some of the claims made can be true, though not for the reasons claimed. Back story, I've made my own boards since 1968 and have been a practicing engineer in Honolulu since 1984. Doesn't make me a pro, or commercially successful; my comments are worth what you paid for them unless you find a useful physical interpretation.
The bottom line (no pun intended) is that pretty much every shaper has a different take on what makes a surfboard go. It's pretty unscientific I'd say. I'll definitely listen to them but I'll keep an open mind to what other experienced shapers are saying.
I guess what really matters is satisfied customers. A guy like Glen who's been shaping boards for many years, for the best surfers, who ride the most challenging waves on the planet, is clearly doing something right.
Thanks Glen. Appreciate this
Thanks for these videos!
No worries!
Whaaaaat "what", Gangster!!!! Thxxxxxxxx!!!!!!!
This is all true. However I believe that we have compromised our surfing by getting so low in volume. Example , mason hoe on his 7'6 at pipe tottaly dominated the tubes that day. I'm sure his father taught him well. Ya he can do it on any board but , when you see people people's board speed wobbling in the tube and having to do 2 bottum turns to get up the face , the board is to small for the speed of the wave. Then when they turn the board or the rider can't handle keeping the rail in the water and it wants to not stick with you. Curren, Carrol and Mark Richards never had a problem turning a 6'4 or even a 6'6 . I know they didn't do airs either. Just don't compromise your surfing for years by riding a 5'8 in 6 to 8 foot surf. Your only hurting yourself and catching less waves. These guys know what there talking about
🤙🏼
What the pros do, with what, and where, is largely irrelevant to most of us. Most of the pros are unnaturally gifted, example the old saying that Slater could ride Pipe on a door, or some such. Using pros and their surfing as examples for the rest of us is largely, simply, marketing. There's a sh*t-ton of money to be made, and a little thing like truth isn't going to be allowed to stand in the way.
I think concave in the nose stops the board from dropping in to the wave vs. a board that doesn't have concave up front. Opinions?
Simply, no. Concave is largely decoration, even on longboard noseriders. Water is a fluid and will flow wherever pressure pushes it. Concaves simply can't contain water, it will rush off to the sides and back, providing no lift.
@@charlesschuster7963 not sure I understand what you're saying of if you understand what I said. I have noticed that my boards I've had that have concave starting up front tend to not catch the wave as easily or drop in, that's been my personal experience.
Where the lowest point of rocker, or the biggest radius curve is located? Exactly centered?
Not necessarily. Boards can have more nose rocker and/or less tail rocker therefore shifting that low point. Also, some boards have a very low or flat rocker making that "low point" a larger area on the bottom of the board. It varies from model to model.
@@TandCSurf For consistency and repeatability, rocker has to be measured with the board tangential to a flat surface at the midpoint.
Isn't it also where u sit and approach. If u want to sit inside a little and drop in under the lip u need a lot of rocker and smaller board. If u want to get pitted and not fly past the bowl a smaller board helps. If your heavier and sit outside its a little different, ya no?
🤙🏼
Thanks for the great video
Our pleasure!
3:30 “a lot of the good guys are riding smaller boards in bigger waves” meanwhile I’m trying figure out dims of a step up so I can ride bigger waves lol
Haha 🤣 🤙🏼
What about drag and release off rails tail etc
We will be creating more videos covering other topics such as rails! Stay tuned!
@@TandCSurf Just look at the water coming off your rail on your next wave and think/envision what is happening. All the information you need is right there.
Listen to man...
No doubt 🤙🏼
Adding more curve is faster in curvier waves. Flat boards in curvy waves are horrendous.
Not so, flat boards are fast. But who needs a fast board? Notice that a smaller hollow wave will have a smaller radius of curvature than a large hollow wave.