Does off-grid solar confuse you? Check out my DIY friendly website for solar system packages and product recommendations, and so much more! www.mobile-solarpower.com Join our DIY solar community! #1 largest solar forum on the internet for beginners and professionals alike: www.diysolarforum.com Check out my best-selling, beginner-friendly 12V off-grid solar book (affiliate link): amzn.to/2Aj4dX4 If DIY is not for you, but you love solar and need an offgrid system, check out Tesla Solar. Low prices and great warranty, and they can take your entire house offgrid with their new Powerwalls: ts.la/william57509 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ My solar equipment recommendations (Constantly updated! Check here first): 12V/48V Lithium Batteries: www.mobile-solarpower.com/solar-batteries.html Solar System Component Directory: www.mobile-solarpower.com/solarcomponents.html Plug-N-Play Systems: www.mobile-solarpower.com/full-size-systems.html Complete 48V System Kits: www.mobile-solarpower.com/complete-48v-solar-kits.html DIY Friendly Air Conditioner/ Heat Pumps: www.mobile-solarpower.com/solar-friendly-air-conditioners.html Complete 48V System Blueprint: www.mobile-solarpower.com/48v-complete-system-blueprint.html ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ My Favorite Online Stores for DIY Solar and Coupon Codes: -Current Connected: SOK, Victron and High Quality Components. Best prices and warranty around: currentconnected.com/?ref=wp -Signature Solar: Cheap Server Rack Batteries and Large Solar Panels: www.signaturesolar.com/?ref=h-cvbzfahsek -Ecoflow Delta Official Site: My favorite plug-n-play solar generator: us.ecoflow.com/?aff=7 -AmpereTime: Cheapest 12V batteries around: amperetime.com/products/ampere-time-12v-100ah-lithium-lifepo4-battery?ref=h-cvbzfahsek -Rich Solar: Mega site and cheaper prices than renogy! Check them out: richsolar.com/?ref=h-cvbzfahsek -Shop Solar Kits: Huge site with every solar kit you can imagine! Check it out: shopsolarkits.com/?ref=will-p -Battery Hookup: Cheap cell deals bit.ly/2mIxSqt 10% off code: diysolar -Watts 24/7: Best deals on all-in-one solar power systems, with customer support and distribution here in the USA: watts247.com/?wpam_id=3 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Contact Information: I am NOT available for personal solar system consult! If you wish to contact me, this is my direct email: williamprowsediysolar@gmail.com Join the forum at diysolarforum.com/ if you wish to hang out with myself and others and talk about solar FTC Disclosure Statement and Disclaimers: Every video includes some form of paid promotion or sponsorship. Some links on this youtube channel may be affiliate links. We may get paid if you buy something or take an action after clicking one of these. My videos are for educational purposes only. Information is subject to change/update at any time. Electricity is DANGEROUS and can kill. Be smart and use common sense :) DIY Solar Power with Will Prowse is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, An affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com
Hey Will, I really enjoy your videos and your enthusiasm. I have been designing and working with high power systems for over 40 years. I would like to recommend one thing and I try but don't always do it myself, when working with these systems it is a good idea to be wearing safety glasses. You do seem safe and know what you are doing, but I have seen molten copper and things blowup at very high currents, fuses do help though. This is just a suggestion. Keep up the great work.
I am wearing some safety glasses right now while reading this haha but yes, I should wear them more for the videos. I actually love safety glasses. Great suggestion! Thanks
@ Gaetano.. You know it dude. Fuses good..breakers not so good. I've seen them explode and catch on fire. I'm changing everything over to cartridge fuses. Secure any wire that has 100 amps being switched through it. That wire will move. Wear your safety gear on the job dude. That's a big write up if you're not wearing it or don't have the proper gear available to you. Arc fault is bad stuff that will change your life.
Same old, same old. "Don't mount the bed over the drivers seat", "Don't put drawer tracks on the front seats", "Don't dump 600W of solar into an HHO generator". Sheesh! Fortunately, I design my systems with failure in mind. I started with an Arduino and a couple of current measuring boards (one for charging, one for discharge and some simple math tells you how much you have in your battery bank). Then I ended up adding a temperature board because I don't trust the ones built into BMSs and then, kind of as an afterthought, added a smoke detection board because, well, why not?
Will: Have you ever done a BMS parallel CHARGE test?. I have built a 280 Amp 12V battery pack and put a Xiaoxiang 250 Amp BMS on the batteries, (I dont expect to draw more than 125 Amps) but then found that my 2nd Alternator in my class B motor home puts out 280Amps for the house battery. When the battery pack gets low the battery sucks up the 280Amps until the BMS shuts down, maybe 1 minuit. Then it restarts and so on. I was thinking of adding a 2nd Xiaoxiang 250 Amp BMS in parallel like this video. Do yu forsee any problems?
Again, thank you, for reinforcing the basics of lithium ion and the magic of bms and low voltage cut offs etc. Some of us are slow to come up to speed lol. And this teacher is making it clear
This is brilliant...my thanks. Will be finishing up your book soon. Little things like this can make it so much easier and at least an affordable option for us folks that are broke or building their systems piecemeal ;)
Just as you used the PIP to show the monitor screen it would be cool to see a flir (thermal) image or video of the heat as it climbs- I'm building one of your small scale solar systems for my Jeep rooftop/inside battery and would love to see how the thermal dissipation happens :) great work on the videos they are always awesome
Great video. My suggestion is to expand on your load testing with every day life inductive loads. As many of the largest loads people have to power are inductive (refrigerator, AC, microwave ovens, etc.) I was going to build a 4s LiFePO4 ~1kWh battery pack using 32700 cells for an electric trolling motor. The motor is rated for 50A but I wanted some over capacity to ensure that the BMS could handle the inductive load of the motor during starting up. I had difficulty finding a reliable 100A BMS from a US source as I didn't want to wait 2 months for a BMS from China. I ended up settling on three 50A BMS in parallel. Sadly after failing to start an inductive load with continuous power draw of 100W on a 12V system when the battery packs have BMS, I have doubts that parallel connecting BMS are reliable for inductive loads start up. The BMS always disconnect the inductive load during the start up. The first load start test was on a battery pack with 30A BMS (rated for 360W continuous). The second load start test was with another battery pack with a 50A BMS (600W continuous). Both battery packs can start the inductive load normally without a BMS and without too much voltage sag. The inductive load doesn't trip a 50A circuit breaker during start up. I even tried connecting the packs with BMS in parallel for a combined rated capacity of 80A and that still couldn't start the inductive load.
If you parallel these BMS(s) as shown, you need to make sure your inverter / charge controller can never get these near the overvoltage and undervoltage cutout values of the BMS(s). Take discharge for example. When pulling max current (say 80A), one BMS will try and disconnect first since they aren't perfectly matched due to tolerance. With one BMS disconnected, that leaves the other BMS to take the full 80A load - which is above its rating. Becomes a race of what happens first - BMS damage, BMS shutdown due to overcurrent, or BMS shutdown due to low voltage being finally detected. Also, understand that the failure modes of the MOSFETs in the BMS are typically a short - and then it overheats and never disconnects. But what you have shown will work if the charger and inverter are programmed to work within a narrower charge/discharge voltage than the BMS(s).
Really great information, I love these tests that you have been doing with battery monitoring systems. It is helping me to refine some aspects of what I am trying to accomplish towards this.
Hi will, you're doing this to double the BMS output, but I'm wondering: can you also take 2 batteries of the same type, each with their own BMS, and switch them parallel?
2x on 80A @51C(125F) points me that BMSs you use are at most 40A-continuous by default without modifying heat sinks or doing any air flow. many/some//w/e (chinese, yep) other BMS with temp-sensors will (and should!) switch off @50C on their MOSFETs by default - and that's a good practice in my opinion. though, it could be 40C because of lower degradation (similar to Li-batteries you always talk about) of transistors, but it's more expensive (like you need 10-12 FETs instead of only 8, a crazy 1.5x ratio). nice test btw, very glad to see that some BMSs could be parallel'd.
Good one, Will. I've been looking for a reliable 230a (12v) BMS for a 400ah LFP system running a Magnum 2800w inverter for some time. Waiting for Rachel to give me some info. Still looking!
I bought 12x 200ah about 6 months ago. While I'm not completely upset with that purchase it is good to see this new diy technology can run large loads. Really appreciate what Will is doing here and know that by the time my PBs die the new tech will be awesome and thanks to Will l....will be tested to the limits.
Your content is well done, great job. Ever thought of a diy solar attic fan build? I'd appreciate hearing your ideas. Thanks and keep up the good work!
I have been thinking about this lately when looking for a cheap non-smart JBD BMS and I just think if you would parallel two battery packs with BMS together to achieve 120A, I don’t see why you couldn’t put them all together in one battery. In 2 battery packs, if a BMS fails, the BMS in the second battery will trip. Putting everything in one bigger battery will work exactly the same way I suppose
Probably the best way to do this would be to develop BMS Logic and Driver boards. That way you have just one board doing the logic and multiple driver boards slaved to the master handling the load in parallel. By the time you develop and fabricate though, it'd be less expensive to buy a high current unit and be done with it. I wonder if you could take a cheapy and convert it to a slave board by cutting a trace on the PCB at the mosfet(s) gate and running a wire from the designated master.
worth a mention that if you have multiple batteries you can just have 1 on each battery in parallel to increase total draw. Use for example a van-conversion, you are probably going to want to have at least 4 x 8 cell batteries, with 4 BMS's ...... even if you you account for drawing 40amp per BMS, thats going to give you 160 amps of constant draw without even pushing the limits. :D
Hey that's a great idea! Very true. Lots of BMS wiring but that would work. I personally like to reduce the number of BMS on my system. Less chance of failure. I prefer paralleling cells, then putting them in series so a small BMS can manage a massive bank. But yeah great idea!
@@WillProwse yep both are viable. Of course for the purpose of this video in reducing the costs and improving reliability.... serial battery with a parallel bank means you can loose a battery and the system maintain voltage... if your off grid this is a rather large point. With a parallel battery - series bank, loose one battery, loose the whole bank. If that is your only bank, your back into the dark ages until you trace and repair the fault. But having the addition of extra BMS for extra output is always going to be a good idea :D
Nice... Like this setup. Im going to build it. Keep it portable. I hope now I shall find Wills website with help on charging from solar and bicycles spinning up flywheels.
Hi William, Thanks for all your excellent videos and great positive attitude. Through your channel I collected a strong interest in solar and batteries and motivated to work by myself on a solution on the ssiling boat we are about to buy for a five year cruise. There the idea for a video came up: what does a (saltwater) cruiser have to take into extra consideration when building is off the grid solar system when looking at all your excellent DIY videos? I am thinking of the high temperatures the batteries and inverter can be exposed to, ventilation, corrosion risks.... Etc. What should be done differently vs an RV? It would be awesome if you could do video on that!!! Will buy your book as well (but right now still saving for the boat :-) Thanks, Rod (from Switzerland)
Great idea, so I spent the whole morning building a whole page and schematic for it! www.mobile-solarpower.com/design-your-own-12v-lifepo4-system.html Let me know what you guys think
Can you please help me I have a Geo Pro 12SRK camper. I just bought a renogy 12 V 200ah battery. Should I keep this battery or what do you recommend. Can you please help me I paid $400 for the battery..what Batt should i buy?
Will: You should look into getting a Chinese factory that is willing to DROP SHIP your batteries. The customer places the order through your website and pays, you send the factory the wholesale $ with the customers address and they ship directly to them. Many advantages including cheaper shipping from China and more cash in pocket. MOST Chinese factories are happy to have an arrangement like this. ;)
Rick Welin - Definitely a better return for Will than simply a small commission. Also better savings for the purchaser if Will passes on the savings from paying Amazon, transport, and storage fees to his tribe.
Problem is the ruixu guys match the cells for me and ship fast. They are a good group of people and keep the warehouse stocked. I could drop ship, and I used to do that for my first business 8 years ago, but having these guys do it for me is really convenient. But yes, may need to find better setup. I am thinking of distribution and current options all the time. Let me know if you have a specific distributor you recommend.
Will, would you be interested in doing a series on built in (120V) converters/charge controllers that come standard with RV’s, and their interaction with lithium batteries? I have a Parallax 1077 three stage unit and I’d be curious what would happen, and if it could be modified to work better with lithium batteries. Thanks
Will, how about a short video on soldering extra 10awg wires on the 100A 4s bms recommended on your site. I'm building a 4s2p 210AH 12v pack with 2 of these bms' in parallel and am a bit nervous about soldering large gauge wires.
I'd like to know what the smallest/cheapest system I need to need to keep a small 4 cylinder van cool at 72 degrees F in the Florida summer night (around 82 F ambient night temp) for 7 hours (11pm to 6a). I currently have a 100watt monocrystalline 12v rigid framed solar panel on my roof. I currently use it to run a 12v fan and freezer during the day and it keeps my primary starter and and a gel topped off.
Hey Will I bought A Daly 24v 8S 60A BMS with a separate port instead of a common port. Now that I am wiring it up I realize that the manufactures wiring diagram is having my isolate the solar charger's battery negative connection to the BMS C- yellow separate ground. Now if this was for a vehicle (Scooter) application sure no harm to your basic charger. In a solar application I am a little worried that the BMS may be disconnecting battery ground to my Solar charger and this will remove battery power to the solar charger when the BMS cuts it off. I can't find any instructions or video's on your site or your guide that I purchased concerning a Separate Port BMS. Please assist?
So is this configuration the same as having two separate lifepo4 battery banks with their own bms, wired in parallel? That's what im wanting to do and this is the only video I've found, but im not exactly sure if it's what's being done. For weight issues i don't want to have to lift a 8 cell milk crate bank, I've had one back surgery that i was supposed to be almost crippled after and with lot's of therapy im doing good, but one 4 cell bank will be more than heavy enough for me. There's also the bonus of being able to run on just one bank if something happens to the bms on a 8 cell single bms set up by running 2 banks with their own bms. Since the video didn't start with your wiring and usual step by step explanations im not sure, and if it was two separate banks i would expect a warning about making sure they were charged to similar levels. After your Titan solar expansion video with the over heating wire, i would imagine you would give a heads up warning lol. Thanks for any kind of reply!
Can I use a (cheaper) higher array of Solar panels and a small battery(expensive) bank which does not allow the battery to discharge beyond 45% during day time? Will it damage the battery?
Hi Will. Thanks for the info you are providing. this is just great information for all of us trying to build a setup of our own choosing. One questions I have. I am in the process of building a wind turbine set up to start and then it will be a solar system to compliment the first one. Can I apply all of the principles in your videos to supply energy to my batteries. I assume I can but I just would like a confirmation from you so I do it right the first time around. Thanks again for all that good info of yours. Keep up the good work.
I spy with my little eye (in another video) you hanging out with jehu, rich and more! Can't wait to hear more about it! Edit: I now see your comment in jehu's video.
I’m starting to collect some solar items. I’m hoping to take what I’m learning and power an AC using solar. Even if it’s only for 4-5 hours a day. I am looking at putting a mini split system in my home and the 1996 Bounder 38’ I have. I hate the roof top AC.
Thanks for your explanation...i have questions about connect 2 pack battery lifepo4 parallel ...i mean if i have one inverter and connect 2 pack lifepo4 parallel for each back have bms and Eqlizuer ...can i do that ??
yes these wires are absolutely under gauged for the load and I complain about this in multiple videos but I don't want to sound like a broken record so I did not mention in this specific video. But all of my previous videos on BMS mentioned that multiple times
I want to use these in my 4x4 as a second battery. How can i use my vehicles alternator to charge when driving and charge with solar when stopped? At the moment I have a lead acid with a battery isolator and a solar charge controller.
Exactly, if it's the BMS that are getting hot you need to separate them and add a small heatsink. I would worry more about the wires getting overheated that way. I have so many cpu heatsinks sitting around I could easily keep them cool. But you NEVER want to stack stuff that generates heat together it's so easy to give them each a little room.
Hi will, hope all is well for you young man. This is exactly what I was looking to do. My question to you is. Do the balance leads from each bms get connected to each series of each bank or packs? In my case its battery packs. I have these BMS's as well, except mine are for lith-ion. Would you happen to have a wiring diagram of this video you made? Thanks for all you do.
Great videos. Im a novice and have your book on mobile solar. So, in theroy if you had a 12 volt lithium 100 amp battery and a inverter and pluged a 500 watt , 5 amp per hour ac unit into the inverter... it should run around 18 to 19 hrs? or am I missing something??
ERROR, Will Robinson. I would not let the two BMS controllers to be in contact with each other. FIRST, make sure the two BMS controllers have PLENTY of space between them. No wonder they got hot!
Oh man I should have put my other amp meter on one wire! Dang. Great question. They were the same temperature under load, so probably similar current, but I don't have data on it.
Hi Will, really like you enthusiasm, I'm looking to build a 24v 8 off 280a per cell for my RV running a LVYUAN 3000/6000 inverter and 2 off 37v 255a solar. any thoughts greatly appreciated . I hope to use a 2600 ceramic hob. Thanks in advance
Great video. Do you have any recommendations for a small compact and light weight battery 60v / 60ah? I have a Weped GT50 electric scooter and my battery output is only 14.7A max @ 60V for short periods, and only 9.8A continuously. The dual motors are rated for 1800 watts continuous each. The battery can only deliver a peak output of 60 x 14.7 = 882 watts. I would like to upgrade the battery with better cells and BMS. 3600 watts / 60 v = 60 amps...that's the output the battery should be able to deliver. Thoughts?
Very impressive and another great vid. My situation involves supporting a transceiver and a few accessories amounting to an average 10-15 amp load with a need for up to 50 amps when transmitting. I understand a 24 volt system would be more efficient but is it worth it to use 24V when I'm in need of 12V pushing the loads described?
That would be a pretty easy load for a 12v, 60 amp bms. And no, you don't need a 24v system for that. 24/48 is great for large systems, but for your loads, not that necessary
I've got lots of LiFePo4 26650 Cells, that I'm going to be making into a single, large 12v battery. Do you think (or can you test) if I'd be better to make 1 large battery with multiple BMS's on it, or if im better to make multiple smaller batteries, each with a single BMS, then connect all the batteries in parallel.
Let's suppose I have these two BMS in parallel and don't want to push them for more than a total of 80 Amps.. How can I limit the current/voltage to the inverter in order to don't pass that limit? I mean, if a have dynamic loads that if everything is used at its maximum will request more than 80 amps from the BMS... how can I limit that in automatic way?
@@WillProwse Thanks... but that means it will cut all the power..is there a solution where current can be limited? even if the voltage is dropped?... if not, the circuit breaker can be last resort...
I wonder how well a computer's CPU heatsink with a fan would work on this. Each BMS might be able to be attached to the opposite ends of one heatsink and only one fan used for cooling both BMSs.
If this parallel system works well for the 2x 60A BMS, would 2 x 100A be good for perhaps 150A? I have a 24V system that will be running a 2500 watt (104 A max) and a step-down to 12V that would go 20A. Max potential continuous amperage would be 125A. Thinking to go with 2 x 100A BMS in parallel, but want to make sure that the cells would be balanced and protected. My system is 9 x Nissan Leaf Gen 1 batteries, three in series and three packs in parallel. It would require a 6S system and I'm having trouble finding a 6S BMS rated for anything over 100 A. Thanks for your help
Will I recently bought 2 x 12v/250 amp output and 12v/120 input BMS units from Deligreen in China. These units cost $90 each and they have a big body as a heat sink compared to those smaller ones you tested. Like I mentioned before my only concern is the guage of the wires coming out that in my opinion should be thicker. I have as yet connected a high load onto them but as I will run 2x batteries in parallel I expect to draw 12v/100 amps from each battery as a max. ( I have a victron multiplus 12/3000/120 inverter/charger to feed on the output side)
Do you have any videos on the daly bms? I see they make those with parallel modules and info on them online seems scarce. From what ive gathered, that module keeps both banks at a similar state by transfering 2, 5, or 15a throught the module between the 2. Is that right? Is the only difference a faster equilibrium or are the 2, 5, and 15 rating referring to a difference before it begins transferring from one to the other?
@@dash8brj Yes I realise this but is there an easy way to tell which BMS, or it's just a matter of unplugging one at a time? I thought there might have been an indicator LED to point to the failed BMS and if not how could you make one?
Thanks, good info. It looks as if the two BMS's are each balancing 4 of the 8 cells. What keeps one 4-cell group from getting out of balance with regard to the other group?
@@WillProwse Hey Will i think you are a amazing dude!! I learn alot from your channel keep up the good work and merry christmas and a happy new year to you!
Thanks for the the info. It's one thing to read specs and reviews but nothing is quite as good as actually testing the devices to see how they perform. I've been looking for BMS options and it's really hard to know what to believe online. Looking forward to seeing what you find with the hybrid inverter. I suspect I'll be getting one just like it. I hope to be able to hack into the EV charging stations to charge my 12 kilowatt Tesla Modules. Am I correct in believing that I could connect the EV level 2 charger to the 2424LV-MSD to charge my battery? Thanks again!
Oh interesting question about using a EV charger. To charge your solar batteries? I'll have to look at how those chargers work. Shouldn't be that hard. Interesting idea
@@WillProwse Yes, it seems to me that it would be cheap fast and convenient to charge the "solar battery" that way whenever EV charging is nearby. I just had the idea yesterday so I'm still in the dark as to the hurdles involved. I learned yesterday that most stations use the vehicle's charger to control the actual charging. The station simply supplys the power after the socket/plug, somehow confirms that the station is plugged into an EV.
Great! Any 5S LTO bms (charge/discharge protection) which would not cost fortune? I just don't get it, why 100A 14.4V 4S LiIon BMS cost 4-5 USD on AliExpress (I tested that white tiny bms board and easily goes to 85A continuous for few minutes), while 100A 5S LTO BMS cost 60-100 USD.
Yeah I noticed that as well. First off, they need to run it at 6s for LTO. More usable capacity and better performance for 12v appliances. Under load, 6s keeps around 12.8 volts. Most LTO bms are 5s. drives me nuts. And right now for LTO, there are some cheap options, and daly makes a good bms but if I had to go with LTO, I would get a multi-chemistry BMS that can handle 12s or higher. So you can use 6/12s. Probably higher price due to scarcity and not many people are using them. LTO guys in the forums run without a bms because overcharge/discharging is not a big issue. Some capacity tests people have do will have full capacity after running the cells to 0.0 volts. But it depends on how youre using them. I wouldnt use them for solar, personally.
Will, both Canadian prepper and Fullmoonadventureclub have recently put out videos about the apex because of you. They mention you and the review you did on the do not by the apex. Would you please make another video responding to what they said. Im not sure, but I don't think these 2 guys are as knowledgeable about batteries and their inner workings and specs as you are. But being a fan of all 3 of you, I would be very interested in your response to their videos. Hope you'll do that soon. Thanks Will!!
I did respond to the Canadian Prepper video but he deleted and blocked my comments. I made a long comment explaining it out to him but he took it down in minutes. Here is the comment: Hello! Ok lets get started: When I made my first kodiak review, it failed my discharge test, and I said what a bummer, and inergy responded telling me that the discharge rate of the battery is 550w. This was a few years ago and the comment made by inergy is still available. At this time I did a comparison test to the goalzero, and I found the kodiak to be better for the input capabilities and advertised charge cycle life. I do state in these same videos, that the goalzero has a better output. I made this a very specific point, and said that the kodiak failed in this regard. I made an entire video on this that you can watch as well, and I posted it two years ago? Something like that. I put the kodiak on my website and everything was good. Few months go by and I get people are complaining that the neutrik adapter is melting on them when used with 600 watts of panels. I tell inergy this problem and they deal with it on an individual consumer basis because most people are not using the kodiak everyday with that many panels. So thats fine, and more time goes on, but that is a bad design fault. They tell me that they are working on a solution, so thats good. The goalzero comes out with a new mppt module. It is still limited to 360w, and I think, what a piece of junk. Great output, horrible input. I have never been sponsored by them, but I found it interesting that they are coming out with new equipment. I still recommend the kodiak. Then the apex, or originally the "K2" is announced. It takes a long time for me to get data on this unit, but the moment I do, I make a video about the ec8 plugs. This is 4 months before the apex comes out. I also ask about other things, and I see ec8 plug as fine for connecting the unit to solar panels, but absolutely not where the solar panels connect to each other. I emailed inergy this, I also told my viewers, and the video is still up. Please check it out. Couple months go by and I finally get the apex. I am super excited! I rip the box open and put it together. I really like the QC ports as you do too. I also bought with my own money a goalzero 1000 to compare it to. I do a load test, and the apex failed in my opinion. I try to be nice and say that maybe its due to temp sensor placement or charge cycle life and heat management system. I also post at the same time my full review video, and I say that it is entirely silly to have a 30 amp rv plug, capable of doing 4.5amps at 120v. I also talk about everything else I complained about, and I even took the step in trying to fix them myself. I also realize that the goalzero that I was comparing it to (which again, I am not sponsored by and I bought with my own money) performs better than the apex. I also study NMC chemistry and realize that the goalzero battery will probably perform just as well as the apex, charge cycle life wise. Not that hard to achieve 2000 charge cycles to 80% capacity for either unit considering c rates used for solar. The goal zero battery is heavier, and inergy does use this as a selling point. Totally true, and the apex is lightweight. Totally agree and everything in the manual for both units is correct. I say to myself, this is not worth the money, even with the coupon code. I also tell inergy, multiple times at this point, that the goal zero 1000 can perform better, has a mppt module for not much money, and is 400 dollars cheaper. I ask inergy why they do not have a heatshrink solution for the ec8 plugs. I told them this problems months ago, and I kept all the emails. They are not advertising the solution on their website. At this point I am fed up and want to make every problem I have with the apex clear to my viewers so they know what they are getting into so that they dont waste over a grand on something they may not be able to use. I make the video and I think it will only help a small number of my viewers, and it goes viral because someone posts it on reddit. The video didnt say anything mean or wrong, it just stated what was in the manual and why I cannot recommend it any more. Other channels can still do it, I do not care at all. I have some viewers that are stilling buying it with my code because they know the limitations, and they still want it anyways. I also understand that the apex is designed for disaster relief etc, but having a switch fall off within the first week, and me finding it while filming my video, just ticked me off. I wanted my viewers to see what I was seeing on my side. Think about this: I tell them the ec8 plug issue months before the apex is released. They assure me its fine and they will have a waterproof set available. I get the apex. Plugs will be destroyed after one winter of use, I dont see a advertised solution. It wasnt until after the video, that they told me they are working on a watertight clamp. Which I do not have an opinion on because I have not tested those at all. I have tested a lot of plugs and I know that if my viewers had these systems fail on them, I would feel horrible! Think about what I am seeing on my end. What would you have done? I think it was fair and helpful, and my video was helpful to inergy because now they dont have to return a bunch of systems this winter when the ec8 plugs drastically reduce performance of people using it outside. Any solar product that is not waterproof or uv resistant, I am going to call out. I have done it before and its unacceptable. even if its for disaster relief, it doesnt matter. And so many other points to mention now that I am talking about this. There were other things that I talked to inergy about on multiple occasions now. They are super nice and I do like them a lot. Great people. Zane is really nice and hard working. But when I am confronted with a system that has solar panels, and people ask me for my opinion, I am going to say it. And nothing I said was a secret or wrong. I am not the only one who feels this way. The switch fell off! I told inergy about that instantly and they said it was a problem with manufacturing. Is that ok? I do not think it is. It is also more prone for getting hit, compared to the kodiak button. With that said, after I posted that video, I took the apex off my website. People still asked me for the code a few times, so I gave it to them. They are not informed on what they are getting, and thats my job. I am here to give them unbiased information and if something starts to fail or I see a problem, I am going to say it. Looking forward to your response. That was a long comment but I am hoping that you can respond to as many points as you can. I will also be sending this to inergy so they can see what I have said here. I love talking to them and they are a great company, and nothing I say is a secret or not based on evidence. I will substantiate my points with evidence and give an opinion if necessary.
@@WillProwse thank you for responding Will... Canadian prepper seemed quite annoyed with you and I'm glad that you don't care. This is the reason I watch your videos. You tell it the way it should be told. And to me that's worth a lot. Being affiliated by a company should not mean you must kiss ass and praise their product only. That's just doing a disservice to both the company and the public. Thank you for your real, true opinions. Having said that, I'm a part time R-vier who runs a dometic refrigerator 24/7 along with charging my phone, laptop, drone and E- bike batteries. I hardly use any lights and I don't have an A/C, television or fans. The E- bike and drone batteries are charged once a week as I don't use them that often. In your opinion, is the apex adequate enough to run these things? Inergy said "piece of cake" as I knew they would. Can you offer your opinion please? As always Will, thank you for your videos. Many of us value your knowledge, advice and opinions! Please keep them coming and stay your true self! That's the most important part!
@@bigrigcook7322 For your needs, the apex would work. Only problem I see is the ec8 plug not being weatherproof, but they say they are developing a solution. Considering your needs, you may want to buy a goalzero 1000 with a mppt module. 400 dollars cheaper than the apex and will perform better. I used to hate the goalzero because the input was a joke. But with their new mppt upgrade, and 300 watts of solar panels, you would be set! The biggest difference between the apex and goalzero right now is the weight and solar input limit. But 300 watts of panels would work great for your appliances. Goal zero and apex use same chemistry of battery too, so should last a similar amount of time, especially how you plan to use them. Your loads are very easy to power. I would go for goalzero, but apex would work for you in a pinch, if they have a ec8 plug solution. Yeah I do not understand why so many youtube channels kiss ass and praise some of these products. Selling an apex or a goal zero or any product on amazon/ebay or direct from manufacturer will generate nearly the same commission, so I do not know why any channel would stick to a single product. It seems so silly. I would rather find the best product on the market and promote it, but the moment something else better comes along, I am going with that. Products come and go, but giving honest recommendations is what matter most. And it is very easy to be critical of solar products these days! Lots of problems.
Wondering what's the lowest budget decent complete solar system set up for full time typical van lifer considering a build right now? Do you have a kit on your website that includes every component needed for a bargain hunter's build? I realize it's all subjective. But, hypothetically speaking, let's say a person was reasonably conservative in power usage. How affordable is a complete set up in summer of 2019? Also, I heard you believe renogy is overpriced. I was watching some other videos reviewing Harbor Freight Thunderbolt 100w 4 panel kit and raving about the performance even in overcast conditions. I'm guessing those panels are junk based on the price of them. Usually you get what you pay for. But curious if you have an opinion on it? Great video here. Thanks for sharing.
My cheapest full size package is: www.mobile-solarpower.com/minimalist-on-a-budget.html Full size diy systems cost quite a bit. I actually have a new video I am working on that will cover a $600 system that will beat everything on the market. The moment I post it, the parts will be out of stock. I am still testing everything first before I recommend it. Coming soon 😎
So are you Pro-BMS now? I know if your previous videos you said they weren’t necessary since you were bottom balancing. Also I know it would be less DIY friendly but have you tried to take the BMS apart to see how hard it would be to upgrade that wiring to say 8 gauge? Obviously it would require soldering which may turn some off.
I don't need BMS but my beginners got mismatched cells and one had them out of balance big time so I want BMS options. I have both available on my website
Hey Will, I have one of these DALY separate port BMSs coming in the mail - per your recommendation. Just wondering if I can wire this to an inverter/charger for shore power? - I have a 2800W 12V MagnaSine
Hello Will. Thank you for the great videos from you. Which configuration can you recommend for a low budget 12Volt system if I have 12x 110Ah cells and want to operate with a 2000 watt inverter. Just have to run the coffee machine. Which BMS and how much power must they be able to do. Mobile solar power shows me 2 interesting solutions: 1) In parallel with 3 sets of 12Volt and 3x BMS or 2) configured as a large battery block with a BMS. (What performance must the BMS then have.) Thank you for your support and help Sorry for my english, I write you from czech rep.
Hey Will, I love your video's. Can you post a video about Goal zero again? I just saw in a video where a guy added a fuse box to his goal zero to get 12v power to many 12v appliances by way of anderson powerpole connection with ring terminals to fuse box. Is there a way to incorporate an exisiting 12v fuse box in my trailer to it and also add a way to get my 110v plugs to work by plugging into the 110V outlets in my goal zero 1400? could it be done if I added a manual on off switch something like a battery disconnect when I dont have shore power? Would like to be able to do this without having to plug into my goal zero with my 30 amp step down cord to plug it into my goal zero. This would allow me to leave my goal zero in the trailer instead of outside due to it being plugged into my trailer via 30amp cord. This will be awesome while my TT is in storage where no electric out let is present.
It’s good to stress test solutions but for small diy setups like this the end user shouldn’t really be trying to power ac heaters as the end goal. If possible, it’s better to run as many dc devices from dc batteries and only use inverters when required as a last resort. You see loads of videos of people going to the expense of setting up a diy portable battery solution and then adding an inverter to power their laptop. That’s so inefficient going from dc to ac back to dc. They should add step up or step down voltage regulators depending on their battery voltage setup. It’s great there is a growing community of people wanting to store solar energy and be more energy self sufficient but I don’t see a corresponding mindset change of trying to more frugal on energy consumption. I’m not criticising you Will, just making a general observation of videos on You Tube.
Huh, I honestly didn't think about this! I don't see any reason why one would fight the other. As long as they have about the same resistance, it should split even if it isnt a perfect split.
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My solar equipment recommendations (Constantly updated! Check here first):
12V/48V Lithium Batteries: www.mobile-solarpower.com/solar-batteries.html
Solar System Component Directory: www.mobile-solarpower.com/solarcomponents.html
Plug-N-Play Systems: www.mobile-solarpower.com/full-size-systems.html
Complete 48V System Kits: www.mobile-solarpower.com/complete-48v-solar-kits.html
DIY Friendly Air Conditioner/ Heat Pumps: www.mobile-solarpower.com/solar-friendly-air-conditioners.html
Complete 48V System Blueprint: www.mobile-solarpower.com/48v-complete-system-blueprint.html
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-AmpereTime: Cheapest 12V batteries around:
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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Hey Will, I really enjoy your videos and your enthusiasm. I have been designing and working with high power systems for over 40 years. I would like to recommend one thing and I try but don't always do it myself, when working with these systems it is a good idea to be wearing safety glasses. You do seem safe and know what you are doing, but I have seen molten copper and things blowup at very high currents, fuses do help though. This is just a suggestion. Keep up the great work.
I am wearing some safety glasses right now while reading this haha but yes, I should wear them more for the videos. I actually love safety glasses. Great suggestion! Thanks
@ Gaetano.. You know it dude. Fuses good..breakers not so good. I've seen them explode and catch on fire. I'm changing everything over to cartridge fuses. Secure any wire that has 100 amps being switched through it. That wire will move. Wear your safety gear on the job dude. That's a big write up if you're not wearing it or don't have the proper gear available to you. Arc fault is bad stuff that will change your life.
Ciao Gaetano! Di dove sei? Ho un amico col tuo stesso nome e cognome in provincia di Palermo
Same old, same old. "Don't mount the bed over the drivers seat", "Don't put drawer tracks on the front seats", "Don't dump 600W of solar into an HHO generator". Sheesh!
Fortunately, I design my systems with failure in mind. I started with an Arduino and a couple of current measuring boards (one for charging, one for discharge and some simple math tells you how much you have in your battery bank). Then I ended up adding a temperature board because I don't trust the ones built into BMSs and then, kind of as an afterthought, added a smoke detection board because, well, why not?
Will: Have you ever done a BMS parallel CHARGE test?. I have built a 280 Amp 12V battery pack and put a Xiaoxiang 250 Amp BMS on the batteries, (I dont expect to draw more than 125 Amps) but then found that my 2nd Alternator in my class B motor home puts out 280Amps for the house battery. When the battery pack gets low the battery sucks up the 280Amps until the BMS shuts down, maybe 1 minuit. Then it restarts and so on. I was thinking of adding a 2nd Xiaoxiang 250 Amp BMS in parallel like this video. Do yu forsee any problems?
Again, thank you, for reinforcing the basics of lithium ion and the magic of bms and low voltage cut offs etc. Some of us are slow to come up to speed lol. And this teacher is making it clear
You are a RV pioneer without the need to drive the RV anywhere !
You are one smart dude.
Almost all your vids make it into my favorites 👍
This is brilliant...my thanks.
Will be finishing up your book soon.
Little things like this can make it so much easier and at least an affordable option for us folks that are broke or building their systems piecemeal ;)
Thank you!! Also, I added some new schematics and other info on my site. might help: www.mobile-solarpower.com/design-your-own-12v-lifepo4-system.html
2 people blew up their BMS's pulling too many amps LOL. Great video Will :)
This is great information! Where's all the likes? Views?
I just posted it a few minutes ago haha you are here early
.. Right ,,, come on Will your Slouching.. 500 views in 24 minutes,, :) good Chit man..
I always do i love this guy
Just added 1 view and 1 like!
Just as you used the PIP to show the monitor screen it would be cool to see a flir (thermal) image or video of the heat as it climbs- I'm building one of your small scale solar systems for my Jeep rooftop/inside battery and would love to see how the thermal dissipation happens :) great work on the videos they are always awesome
Great video. My suggestion is to expand on your load testing with every day life inductive loads. As many of the largest loads people have to power are inductive (refrigerator, AC, microwave ovens, etc.)
I was going to build a 4s LiFePO4 ~1kWh battery pack using 32700 cells for an electric trolling motor. The motor is rated for 50A but I wanted some over capacity to ensure that the BMS could handle the inductive load of the motor during starting up. I had difficulty finding a reliable 100A BMS from a US source as I didn't want to wait 2 months for a BMS from China. I ended up settling on three 50A BMS in parallel.
Sadly after failing to start an inductive load with continuous power draw of 100W on a 12V system when the battery packs have BMS, I have doubts that parallel connecting BMS are reliable for inductive loads start up. The BMS always disconnect the inductive load during the start up. The first load start test was on a battery pack with 30A BMS (rated for 360W continuous). The second load start test was with another battery pack with a 50A BMS (600W continuous). Both battery packs can start the inductive load normally without a BMS and without too much voltage sag. The inductive load doesn't trip a 50A circuit breaker during start up. I even tried connecting the packs with BMS in parallel for a combined rated capacity of 80A and that still couldn't start the inductive load.
Before not having a just electric battery power Ac 48v to 380v Dc! Excellent service from will prowse. Thanks to aloud's for watching interviewing.
If you parallel these BMS(s) as shown, you need to make sure your inverter / charge controller can never get these near the overvoltage and undervoltage cutout values of the BMS(s). Take discharge for example. When pulling max current (say 80A), one BMS will try and disconnect first since they aren't perfectly matched due to tolerance. With one BMS disconnected, that leaves the other BMS to take the full 80A load - which is above its rating. Becomes a race of what happens first - BMS damage, BMS shutdown due to overcurrent, or BMS shutdown due to low voltage being finally detected. Also, understand that the failure modes of the MOSFETs in the BMS are typically a short - and then it overheats and never disconnects. But what you have shown will work if the charger and inverter are programmed to work within a narrower charge/discharge voltage than the BMS(s).
Really great information, I love these tests that you have been doing with battery monitoring systems. It is helping me to refine some aspects of what I am trying to accomplish towards this.
It was one of the most helpful video cuz what I want to have is a bit bigger size but just like the set up you shared in this video!
Hi will, you're doing this to double the BMS output, but I'm wondering: can you also take 2 batteries of the same type, each with their own BMS, and switch them parallel?
2x on 80A @51C(125F) points me that BMSs you use are at most 40A-continuous by default without modifying heat sinks or doing any air flow.
many/some//w/e (chinese, yep) other BMS with temp-sensors will (and should!) switch off @50C on their MOSFETs by default - and that's a good practice in my opinion. though, it could be 40C because of lower degradation (similar to Li-batteries you always talk about) of transistors, but it's more expensive (like you need 10-12 FETs instead of only 8, a crazy 1.5x ratio).
nice test btw, very glad to see that some BMSs could be parallel'd.
Total Awesomeness
Invaluable stuff Will. Thanks.
Good one, Will. I've been looking for a reliable 230a (12v) BMS for a 400ah LFP system running a Magnum 2800w inverter for some time. Waiting for Rachel to give me some info. Still looking!
Again GREAT stuff!! I wish I had all this information before I wasted money and bought 2 100ah AGM. Thank you for sharing your knowledge 👍😎
I bought 12x 200ah about 6 months ago. While I'm not completely upset with that purchase it is good to see this new diy technology can run large loads. Really appreciate what Will is doing here and know that by the time my PBs die the new tech will be awesome and thanks to Will l....will be tested to the limits.
@diy solar will prowse
Can you make a video showing how you wire them in parallel exactly? Thank you for the amazing informational videos!
Your content is well done, great job. Ever thought of a diy solar attic fan build? I'd appreciate hearing your ideas. Thanks and keep up the good work!
Another quality Video Will 👍🏼👌🏼 Its always good to think outside the box🤔😬 And a "Bonus" if doing that saves money 💰💰😎
I have been thinking about this lately when looking for a cheap non-smart JBD BMS and I just think if you would parallel two battery packs with BMS together to achieve 120A, I don’t see why you couldn’t put them all together in one battery. In 2 battery packs, if a BMS fails, the BMS in the second battery will trip. Putting everything in one bigger battery will work exactly the same way I suppose
Probably the best way to do this would be to develop BMS Logic and Driver boards. That way you have just one board doing the logic and multiple driver boards slaved to the master handling the load in parallel. By the time you develop and fabricate though, it'd be less expensive to buy a high current unit and be done with it.
I wonder if you could take a cheapy and convert it to a slave board by cutting a trace on the PCB at the mosfet(s) gate and running a wire from the designated master.
worth a mention that if you have multiple batteries you can just have 1 on each battery in parallel to increase total draw. Use for example a van-conversion, you are probably going to want to have at least 4 x 8 cell batteries, with 4 BMS's ...... even if you you account for drawing 40amp per BMS, thats going to give you 160 amps of constant draw without even pushing the limits. :D
Hey that's a great idea! Very true. Lots of BMS wiring but that would work. I personally like to reduce the number of BMS on my system. Less chance of failure. I prefer paralleling cells, then putting them in series so a small BMS can manage a massive bank. But yeah great idea!
@@WillProwse yep both are viable. Of course for the purpose of this video in reducing the costs and improving reliability.... serial battery with a parallel bank means you can loose a battery and the system maintain voltage... if your off grid this is a rather large point.
With a parallel battery - series bank, loose one battery, loose the whole bank. If that is your only bank, your back into the dark ages until you trace and repair the fault.
But having the addition of extra BMS for extra output is always going to be a good idea :D
Nice... Like this setup. Im going to build it. Keep it portable. I hope now I shall find Wills website with help on charging from solar and bicycles spinning up flywheels.
If a pair of them work well in parallel, why not add a 3rd one?
Yeah go for it
Hi may i ask about the charging current..You can also double the charging current capacity..
Hi William,
Thanks for all your excellent videos and great positive attitude. Through your channel I collected a strong interest in solar and batteries and motivated to work by myself on a solution on the ssiling boat we are about to buy for a five year cruise.
There the idea for a video came up: what does a (saltwater) cruiser have to take into extra consideration when building is off the grid solar system when looking at all your excellent DIY videos? I am thinking of the high temperatures the batteries and inverter can be exposed to, ventilation, corrosion risks.... Etc. What should be done differently vs an RV?
It would be awesome if you could do video on that!!! Will buy your book as well (but right now still saving for the boat :-)
Thanks, Rod (from Switzerland)
Will the new EPever neg MPPT has a Lifepo4 setting and low/high temp cut off
How about a really good 12v system for a 1500watt inverter. Seeing as I am stuck with my buy.
This ^^^!
Great idea, so I spent the whole morning building a whole page and schematic for it! www.mobile-solarpower.com/design-your-own-12v-lifepo4-system.html Let me know what you guys think
so two or three 4S lifep04 set up in parallel with a daly bms on each one works.
Off the shelf lithium batteries have built in BMS. If I parallel 3 batteries each with their inbuilt BMS is that problem
Will 100k congrats!, Silver play button is coming!
Can you please help me I have a Geo Pro 12SRK camper. I just bought a renogy 12 V 200ah battery. Should I keep this battery or what do you recommend. Can you please help me I paid $400 for the battery..what Batt should i buy?
I forgot to say this is a renegy 12v 200Ah hybrid battery
Will: You should look into getting a Chinese factory that is willing to DROP SHIP your batteries. The customer places the order through your website and pays, you send the factory the wholesale $ with the customers address and they ship directly to them. Many advantages including cheaper shipping from China and more cash in pocket. MOST Chinese factories are happy to have an arrangement like this. ;)
Rick Welin - Definitely a better return for Will than simply a small commission. Also better savings for the purchaser if Will passes on the savings from paying Amazon, transport, and storage fees to his tribe.
Problem is the ruixu guys match the cells for me and ship fast. They are a good group of people and keep the warehouse stocked. I could drop ship, and I used to do that for my first business 8 years ago, but having these guys do it for me is really convenient. But yes, may need to find better setup. I am thinking of distribution and current options all the time. Let me know if you have a specific distributor you recommend.
What happens when you short one, does it pop or will it protect itself?
Will, would you be interested in doing a series on built in (120V) converters/charge controllers that come standard with RV’s, and their interaction with lithium batteries? I have a Parallax 1077 three stage unit and I’d be curious what would happen, and if it could be modified to work better with lithium batteries. Thanks
Thumbs up!
Indiana USA.
Will, how about a short video on soldering extra 10awg wires on the 100A 4s bms recommended on your site. I'm building a 4s2p 210AH 12v pack with 2 of these bms' in parallel and am a bit nervous about soldering large gauge wires.
I'd like to know what the smallest/cheapest system I need to need to keep a small 4 cylinder van cool at 72 degrees F in the Florida summer night (around 82 F ambient night temp) for 7 hours (11pm to 6a). I currently have a 100watt monocrystalline 12v rigid framed solar panel on my roof. I currently use it to run a 12v fan and freezer during the day and it keeps my primary starter and and a gel topped off.
In this video you are using same battery with two BMSs. Can you connect two battery packs in parallel? Say 2 of 12v/50a packs in parallel to get 100a?
Hey Will I bought A Daly 24v 8S 60A BMS with a separate port instead of a common port. Now that I am wiring it up I realize that the manufactures wiring diagram is having my isolate the solar charger's battery negative connection to the BMS C- yellow separate ground. Now if this was for a vehicle (Scooter) application sure no harm to your basic charger. In a solar application I am a little worried that the BMS may be disconnecting battery ground to my Solar charger and this will remove battery power to the solar charger when the BMS cuts it off.
I can't find any instructions or video's on your site or your guide that I purchased concerning a Separate Port BMS. Please assist?
Yeah I changed the recommendation to common port. You can see all the details under the community tab of my channel
Oh no. Ordering from China is 4-6 weeks and it is too late can I ground C- to ground terminal block with P- and have this work as a common port?
Yeah it can work as a common Port no problem
So is this configuration the same as having two separate lifepo4 battery banks with their own bms, wired in parallel? That's what im wanting to do and this is the only video I've found, but im not exactly sure if it's what's being done. For weight issues i don't want to have to lift a 8 cell milk crate bank, I've had one back surgery that i was supposed to be almost crippled after and with lot's of therapy im doing good, but one 4 cell bank will be more than heavy enough for me.
There's also the bonus of being able to run on just one bank if something happens to the bms on a 8 cell single bms set up by running 2 banks with their own bms. Since the video didn't start with your wiring and usual step by step explanations im not sure, and if it was two separate banks i would expect a warning about making sure they were charged to similar levels.
After your Titan solar expansion video with the over heating wire, i would imagine you would give a heads up warning lol. Thanks for any kind of reply!
Can I use a (cheaper) higher array of Solar panels and a small battery(expensive) bank which does not allow the battery to discharge beyond 45% during day time? Will it damage the battery?
Hi Will. Thanks for the info you are providing. this is just great information for all of us trying to build a setup of our own choosing. One questions I have. I am in the process of building a wind turbine set up to start and then it will be a solar system to compliment the first one. Can I apply all of the principles in your videos to supply energy to my batteries. I assume I can but I just would like a confirmation from you so I do it right the first time around. Thanks again for all that good info of yours. Keep up the good work.
I spy with my little eye (in another video) you hanging out with jehu, rich and more! Can't wait to hear more about it! Edit: I now see your comment in jehu's video.
Yeah!! Fun stuff. I'll try to make some videos with them in the near future :D
Try to use some radiator with fan on BMS module and keep a distance between BMS module.
What about for 48V (16S)?
Even better
So they can be used in series for 16s without issue?
No, use a 16s model
I’m starting to collect some solar items. I’m hoping to take what I’m learning and power an AC using solar. Even if it’s only for 4-5 hours a day. I am looking at putting a mini split system in my home and the 1996 Bounder 38’ I have.
I hate the roof top AC.
Is it possible to wire a 120A and a 150A BMS in parallel . or do they have to be of the same A ?
thank you for your help
So P- of BMS1 goes into B- of BMS 2?
Thanks for your explanation...i have questions about connect 2 pack battery lifepo4 parallel ...i mean if i have one inverter and connect 2 pack lifepo4 parallel for each back have bms and Eqlizuer ...can i do that ??
What is the wire gauge from all the cells to the BMS harnesses? Seem low gauge for pulling collectively nonetheless 80-100 amps.
yes these wires are absolutely under gauged for the load and I complain about this in multiple videos but I don't want to sound like a broken record so I did not mention in this specific video. But all of my previous videos on BMS mentioned that multiple times
Have you tried any Daly BMS with blutooth connectivity?
Would be nice to see 10 of those in parallel for small ev
I want to use these in my 4x4 as a second battery.
How can i use my vehicles alternator to charge when driving and charge with solar when stopped?
At the moment I have a lead acid with a battery isolator and a solar charge controller.
The two BMS were stacked. Why not separate so they run cooler?
Because I wanted to see how hot they would get
If the loads are shorter in duration, no heat is generated. It's only hot when you do a large load for a long time
Exactly, if it's the BMS that are getting hot you need to separate them and add a small heatsink. I would worry more about the wires getting overheated that way. I have so many cpu heatsinks sitting around I could easily keep them cool. But you NEVER want to stack stuff that generates heat together it's so easy to give them each a little room.
Agreed
I have a 15s LFP battery, but these BMS’s only come in 16s. Do you think I can just leave the 16’th balance lead off?
Hi will, hope all is well for you young man. This is exactly what I was looking to do. My question to you is. Do the balance leads from each bms get connected to each series of each bank or packs? In my case its battery packs. I have these BMS's as well, except mine are for lith-ion. Would you happen to have a wiring diagram of this video you made? Thanks for all you do.
Great videos. Im a novice and have your book on mobile solar. So, in theroy if you had a 12 volt lithium 100 amp battery and a inverter and pluged a 500 watt , 5 amp per hour ac unit into the inverter... it should run around 18 to 19 hrs? or am I missing something??
That is 5 amps at 110v. So 550 Watts. A 100ah 12v battery has 1200 watt hours. So you can run air conditioner for two hours.
@@WillProwse Okay, thought it did not seem right. Thank you again for your personal advice... Back to the book for me now, lol.
ERROR, Will Robinson. I would not let the two BMS controllers to be in contact with each other. FIRST, make sure the two BMS controllers have PLENTY of space between them. No wonder they got hot!
Agreed but that's why I'm testing them like this. I want them to get hot.
How equal was the current sharing of the two devices?
Oh man I should have put my other amp meter on one wire! Dang. Great question. They were the same temperature under load, so probably similar current, but I don't have data on it.
Do you have a guide for calculating a solar system for my needs.
It's on his website. Also in his book. One of the first things that he goes over...
Hi Will, really like you enthusiasm, I'm looking to build a 24v 8 off 280a per cell for my RV running a LVYUAN 3000/6000 inverter and 2 off 37v 255a solar. any thoughts greatly appreciated . I hope to use a 2600 ceramic hob. Thanks in advance
Great video. Do you have any recommendations for a small compact and light weight battery 60v / 60ah? I have a Weped GT50 electric scooter and my battery output is only 14.7A max @ 60V for short periods, and only 9.8A continuously. The dual motors are rated for 1800 watts continuous each. The battery can only deliver a peak output of 60 x 14.7 = 882 watts. I would like to upgrade the battery with better cells and BMS. 3600 watts / 60 v = 60 amps...that's the output the battery should be able to deliver. Thoughts?
biggest fan from india.😊😊😊
I notice you have a mppsolar how do you like it?
Good eye! I am testing two of them. They are... Ok. I have a lot to say about them. New video coming
Very impressive and another great vid. My situation involves supporting a transceiver and a few accessories amounting to an average 10-15 amp load with a need for up to 50 amps when transmitting. I understand a 24 volt system would be more efficient but is it worth it to use 24V when I'm in need of 12V pushing the loads described?
That would be a pretty easy load for a 12v, 60 amp bms. And no, you don't need a 24v system for that. 24/48 is great for large systems, but for your loads, not that necessary
@@WillProwse Great, thanks for the info. Looking forward to the next vid...B
I've got lots of LiFePo4 26650 Cells, that I'm going to be making into a single, large 12v battery.
Do you think (or can you test) if I'd be better to make 1 large battery with multiple BMS's on it, or if im better to make multiple smaller batteries, each with a single BMS, then connect all the batteries in parallel.
you have a tesla battery system how about a prius battery system?
Let's suppose I have these two BMS in parallel and don't want to push them for more than a total of 80 Amps.. How can I limit the current/voltage to the inverter in order to don't pass that limit? I mean, if a have dynamic loads that if everything is used at its maximum will request more than 80 amps from the BMS... how can I limit that in automatic way?
Could use circuit breaker as failsafe
@@WillProwse Thanks... but that means it will cut all the power..is there a solution where current can be limited? even if the voltage is dropped?... if not, the circuit breaker can be last resort...
I wonder how well a computer's CPU heatsink with a fan would work on this.
Each BMS might be able to be attached to the opposite ends of one heatsink and only one fan used for cooling both BMSs.
Can I put a solar panel directly to the BMS, May be not recommended, but is it possible?!
Thanks
If this parallel system works well for the 2x 60A BMS, would 2 x 100A be good for perhaps 150A?
I have a 24V system that will be running a 2500 watt (104 A max) and a step-down to 12V that would go 20A. Max potential continuous amperage would be 125A. Thinking to go with 2 x 100A BMS in parallel, but want to make sure that the cells would be balanced and protected.
My system is 9 x Nissan Leaf Gen 1 batteries, three in series and three packs in parallel. It would require a 6S system and I'm having trouble finding a 6S BMS rated for anything over 100 A.
Thanks for your help
Will I recently bought 2 x 12v/250 amp output and 12v/120 input BMS units from Deligreen in China. These units cost $90 each and they have a big body as a heat sink compared to those smaller ones you tested. Like I mentioned before my only concern is the guage of the wires coming out that in my opinion should be thicker. I have as yet connected a high load onto them but as I will run 2x batteries in parallel I expect to draw 12v/100 amps from each battery as a max. ( I have a victron multiplus 12/3000/120 inverter/charger to feed on the output side)
sir have lifepo4 32650 60amps, can i double the bms 16s 48v 30A ? to reach the amps of my battery bank to become 16s 48v 60a?
Do you have any videos on the daly bms? I see they make those with parallel modules and info on them online seems scarce. From what ive gathered, that module keeps both banks at a similar state by transfering 2, 5, or 15a throught the module between the 2. Is that right? Is the only difference a faster equilibrium or are the 2, 5, and 15 rating referring to a difference before it begins transferring from one to the other?
Hey Will, good to see you looking for simplicity. If one of the BMS's fails how would that be indicated? How would you know which one?
You'd suddenly not be able to pull more than 60A without the still working one tripping.
@@dash8brj Yes I realise this but is there an easy way to tell which BMS, or it's just a matter of unplugging one at a time? I thought there might have been an indicator LED to point to the failed BMS and if not how could you make one?
Hi Will, what kind of solar power set up can you recommend that can be used to power an electric induction cooktop?
Thanks, good info. It looks as if the two BMS's are each balancing 4 of the 8 cells. What keeps one 4-cell group from getting out of balance with regard to the other group?
No. Both BMS are connected to all cells.
@@WillProwse Hey Will i think you are a amazing dude!! I learn alot from your channel keep up the good work and merry christmas and a happy new year to you!
What system would you design for a van where I want to power a Vitamix blender and a Bosch 2.5 gallon water heater? Thanks for your videos!
how long can u use a gaming pc whit this lets a i7 8700k and a rtx 2070 normal loadout whit ssd fans
Looks like Giandel did away with their 1000w inverter listed in your website article...
It's just out of stock. Happens a lot
Awesome inverter
Thanks for the the info. It's one thing to read specs and reviews but nothing is quite as good as actually testing the devices to see how they perform.
I've been looking for BMS options and it's really hard to know what to believe online.
Looking forward to seeing what you find with the hybrid inverter. I suspect I'll be getting one just like it. I hope to be able to hack into the EV charging stations to charge my 12 kilowatt Tesla Modules. Am I correct in believing that I could connect the EV level 2 charger to the 2424LV-MSD to charge my battery? Thanks again!
Oh interesting question about using a EV charger. To charge your solar batteries? I'll have to look at how those chargers work. Shouldn't be that hard. Interesting idea
@@WillProwse Yes, it seems to me that it would be cheap fast and convenient to charge the "solar battery" that way whenever EV charging is nearby. I just had the idea yesterday so I'm still in the dark as to the hurdles involved. I learned yesterday that most stations use the vehicle's charger to control the actual charging. The station simply supplys the power after the socket/plug, somehow confirms that the station is plugged into an EV.
Great! Any 5S LTO bms (charge/discharge protection) which would not cost fortune?
I just don't get it, why 100A 14.4V 4S LiIon BMS cost 4-5 USD on AliExpress (I tested that white tiny bms board and easily goes to 85A continuous for few minutes), while 100A 5S LTO BMS cost 60-100 USD.
Yeah I noticed that as well. First off, they need to run it at 6s for LTO. More usable capacity and better performance for 12v appliances. Under load, 6s keeps around 12.8 volts. Most LTO bms are 5s. drives me nuts.
And right now for LTO, there are some cheap options, and daly makes a good bms but if I had to go with LTO, I would get a multi-chemistry BMS that can handle 12s or higher. So you can use 6/12s.
Probably higher price due to scarcity and not many people are using them.
LTO guys in the forums run without a bms because overcharge/discharging is not a big issue. Some capacity tests people have do will have full capacity after running the cells to 0.0 volts. But it depends on how youre using them. I wouldnt use them for solar, personally.
Will, both Canadian prepper and Fullmoonadventureclub have recently put out videos about the apex because of you. They mention you and the review you did on the do not by the apex. Would you please make another video responding to what they said. Im not sure, but I don't think these 2 guys are as knowledgeable about batteries and their inner workings and specs as you are. But being a fan of all 3 of you, I would be very interested in your response to their videos. Hope you'll do that soon. Thanks Will!!
I did respond to the Canadian Prepper video but he deleted and blocked my comments. I made a long comment explaining it out to him but he took it down in minutes. Here is the comment:
Hello! Ok lets get started:
When I made my first kodiak review, it failed my discharge test, and I said what a bummer, and inergy responded telling me that the discharge rate of the battery is 550w. This was a few years ago and the comment made by inergy is still available. At this time I did a comparison test to the goalzero, and I found the kodiak to be better for the input capabilities and advertised charge cycle life. I do state in these same videos, that the goalzero has a better output. I made this a very specific point, and said that the kodiak failed in this regard. I made an entire video on this that you can watch as well, and I posted it two years ago? Something like that. I put the kodiak on my website and everything was good.
Few months go by and I get people are complaining that the neutrik adapter is melting on them when used with 600 watts of panels. I tell inergy this problem and they deal with it on an individual consumer basis because most people are not using the kodiak everyday with that many panels. So thats fine, and more time goes on, but that is a bad design fault. They tell me that they are working on a solution, so thats good. The goalzero comes out with a new mppt module. It is still limited to 360w, and I think, what a piece of junk. Great output, horrible input. I have never been sponsored by them, but I found it interesting that they are coming out with new equipment. I still recommend the kodiak.
Then the apex, or originally the "K2" is announced. It takes a long time for me to get data on this unit, but the moment I do, I make a video about the ec8 plugs. This is 4 months before the apex comes out. I also ask about other things, and I see ec8 plug as fine for connecting the unit to solar panels, but absolutely not where the solar panels connect to each other. I emailed inergy this, I also told my viewers, and the video is still up. Please check it out. Couple months go by and I finally get the apex. I am super excited! I rip the box open and put it together. I really like the QC ports as you do too. I also bought with my own money a goalzero 1000 to compare it to. I do a load test, and the apex failed in my opinion. I try to be nice and say that maybe its due to temp sensor placement or charge cycle life and heat management system. I also post at the same time my full review video, and I say that it is entirely silly to have a 30 amp rv plug, capable of doing 4.5amps at 120v. I also talk about everything else I complained about, and I even took the step in trying to fix them myself. I also realize that the goalzero that I was comparing it to (which again, I am not sponsored by and I bought with my own money) performs better than the apex. I also study NMC chemistry and realize that the goalzero battery will probably perform just as well as the apex, charge cycle life wise. Not that hard to achieve 2000 charge cycles to 80% capacity for either unit considering c rates used for solar. The goal zero battery is heavier, and inergy does use this as a selling point. Totally true, and the apex is lightweight. Totally agree and everything in the manual for both units is correct. I say to myself, this is not worth the money, even with the coupon code. I also tell inergy, multiple times at this point, that the goal zero 1000 can perform better, has a mppt module for not much money, and is 400 dollars cheaper. I ask inergy why they do not have a heatshrink solution for the ec8 plugs. I told them this problems months ago, and I kept all the emails. They are not advertising the solution on their website.
At this point I am fed up and want to make every problem I have with the apex clear to my viewers so they know what they are getting into so that they dont waste over a grand on something they may not be able to use. I make the video and I think it will only help a small number of my viewers, and it goes viral because someone posts it on reddit. The video didnt say anything mean or wrong, it just stated what was in the manual and why I cannot recommend it any more. Other channels can still do it, I do not care at all. I have some viewers that are stilling buying it with my code because they know the limitations, and they still want it anyways. I also understand that the apex is designed for disaster relief etc, but having a switch fall off within the first week, and me finding it while filming my video, just ticked me off. I wanted my viewers to see what I was seeing on my side.
Think about this: I tell them the ec8 plug issue months before the apex is released. They assure me its fine and they will have a waterproof set available. I get the apex. Plugs will be destroyed after one winter of use, I dont see a advertised solution. It wasnt until after the video, that they told me they are working on a watertight clamp. Which I do not have an opinion on because I have not tested those at all. I have tested a lot of plugs and I know that if my viewers had these systems fail on them, I would feel horrible! Think about what I am seeing on my end. What would you have done? I think it was fair and helpful, and my video was helpful to inergy because now they dont have to return a bunch of systems this winter when the ec8 plugs drastically reduce performance of people using it outside. Any solar product that is not waterproof or uv resistant, I am going to call out. I have done it before and its unacceptable. even if its for disaster relief, it doesnt matter.
And so many other points to mention now that I am talking about this. There were other things that I talked to inergy about on multiple occasions now. They are super nice and I do like them a lot. Great people. Zane is really nice and hard working. But when I am confronted with a system that has solar panels, and people ask me for my opinion, I am going to say it. And nothing I said was a secret or wrong. I am not the only one who feels this way. The switch fell off! I told inergy about that instantly and they said it was a problem with manufacturing. Is that ok? I do not think it is. It is also more prone for getting hit, compared to the kodiak button.
With that said, after I posted that video, I took the apex off my website. People still asked me for the code a few times, so I gave it to them. They are not informed on what they are getting, and thats my job. I am here to give them unbiased information and if something starts to fail or I see a problem, I am going to say it.
Looking forward to your response. That was a long comment but I am hoping that you can respond to as many points as you can. I will also be sending this to inergy so they can see what I have said here. I love talking to them and they are a great company, and nothing I say is a secret or not based on evidence. I will substantiate my points with evidence and give an opinion if necessary.
@@WillProwse thank you for responding Will... Canadian prepper seemed quite annoyed with you and I'm glad that you don't care. This is the reason I watch your videos. You tell it the way it should be told. And to me that's worth a lot. Being affiliated by a company should not mean you must kiss ass and praise their product only. That's just doing a disservice to both the company and the public. Thank you for your real, true opinions.
Having said that, I'm a part time R-vier who runs a dometic refrigerator 24/7 along with charging my phone, laptop, drone and E- bike batteries. I hardly use any lights and I don't have an A/C, television or fans. The E- bike and drone batteries are charged once a week as I don't use them that often.
In your opinion, is the apex adequate enough to run these things? Inergy said "piece of cake" as I knew they would. Can you offer your opinion please?
As always Will, thank you for your videos. Many of us value your knowledge, advice and opinions!
Please keep them coming and stay your true self! That's the most important part!
@@bigrigcook7322 For your needs, the apex would work. Only problem I see is the ec8 plug not being weatherproof, but they say they are developing a solution. Considering your needs, you may want to buy a goalzero 1000 with a mppt module. 400 dollars cheaper than the apex and will perform better. I used to hate the goalzero because the input was a joke. But with their new mppt upgrade, and 300 watts of solar panels, you would be set! The biggest difference between the apex and goalzero right now is the weight and solar input limit. But 300 watts of panels would work great for your appliances. Goal zero and apex use same chemistry of battery too, so should last a similar amount of time, especially how you plan to use them. Your loads are very easy to power. I would go for goalzero, but apex would work for you in a pinch, if they have a ec8 plug solution.
Yeah I do not understand why so many youtube channels kiss ass and praise some of these products. Selling an apex or a goal zero or any product on amazon/ebay or direct from manufacturer will generate nearly the same commission, so I do not know why any channel would stick to a single product. It seems so silly.
I would rather find the best product on the market and promote it, but the moment something else better comes along, I am going with that. Products come and go, but giving honest recommendations is what matter most. And it is very easy to be critical of solar products these days! Lots of problems.
@@WillProwse thank you so much Will! I admire your ethics. Keep up the great work! I'll be watching!
Wondering what's the lowest budget decent complete solar system set up for full time typical van lifer considering a build right now? Do you have a kit on your website that includes every component needed for a bargain hunter's build? I realize it's all subjective. But, hypothetically speaking, let's say a person was reasonably conservative in power usage. How affordable is a complete set up in summer of 2019? Also, I heard you believe renogy is overpriced. I was watching some other videos reviewing Harbor Freight Thunderbolt 100w 4 panel kit and raving about the performance even in overcast conditions. I'm guessing those panels are junk based on the price of them. Usually you get what you pay for. But curious if you have an opinion on it? Great video here. Thanks for sharing.
My cheapest full size package is: www.mobile-solarpower.com/minimalist-on-a-budget.html
Full size diy systems cost quite a bit. I actually have a new video I am working on that will cover a $600 system that will beat everything on the market. The moment I post it, the parts will be out of stock. I am still testing everything first before I recommend it. Coming soon 😎
Harbor freight kit works but I do not like the plastic rails on the panels. Pretty cheaply made
I really like your videos but I can't found your lifepo4 in Europe. Anybody can help. Thanks
So are you Pro-BMS now? I know if your previous videos you said they weren’t necessary since you were bottom balancing.
Also I know it would be less DIY friendly but have you tried to take the BMS apart to see how hard it would be to upgrade that wiring to say 8 gauge? Obviously it would require soldering which may turn some off.
I don't need BMS but my beginners got mismatched cells and one had them out of balance big time so I want BMS options. I have both available on my website
Yes I tried to take it apart but it's very hard. Couldn't do it. Thing is glued together! It's crazy
I am waiting your review about hybrid inverter all in one
Working on it now
Hey Will, I have one of these DALY separate port BMSs coming in the mail - per your recommendation. Just wondering if I can wire this to an inverter/charger for shore power? - I have a 2800W 12V MagnaSine
Hello Will. Thank you for the great videos from you.
Which configuration can you recommend for a low budget 12Volt system if I have 12x 110Ah cells and want to operate with a 2000 watt inverter. Just have to run the coffee machine.
Which BMS and how much power must they be able to do.
Mobile solar power shows me 2 interesting solutions:
1) In parallel with 3 sets of 12Volt and 3x BMS or
2) configured as a large battery block with a BMS. (What performance must the BMS then have.)
Thank you for your support and help
Sorry for my english, I write you from czech rep.
Hey Will, I love your video's. Can you post a video about Goal zero again? I just saw in a video where a guy added a fuse box to his goal zero to get 12v power to many 12v appliances by way of anderson powerpole connection with ring terminals to fuse box. Is there a way to incorporate an exisiting 12v fuse box in my trailer to it and also add a way to get my 110v plugs to work by plugging into the 110V outlets in my goal zero 1400? could it be done if I added a manual on off switch something like a battery disconnect when I dont have shore power? Would like to be able to do this without having to plug into my goal zero with my 30 amp step down cord to plug it into my goal zero. This would allow me to leave my goal zero in the trailer instead of outside due to it being plugged into my trailer via 30amp cord. This will be awesome while my TT is in storage where no electric out let is present.
I'm considering the 100AH LiFePO4 batteries for a 16S bank (48v replacement, 51.2v nominal). What is a good BMS for 16s bank?
I'm finding limits on the charging rate through those BMS in my research.
It’s good to stress test solutions but for small diy setups like this the end user shouldn’t really be trying to power ac heaters as the end goal. If possible, it’s better to run as many dc devices from dc batteries and only use inverters when required as a last resort.
You see loads of videos of people going to the expense of setting up a diy portable battery solution and then adding an inverter to power their laptop. That’s so inefficient going from dc to ac back to dc. They should add step up or step down voltage regulators depending on their battery voltage setup.
It’s great there is a growing community of people wanting to store solar energy and be more energy self sufficient but I don’t see a corresponding mindset change of trying to more frugal on energy consumption.
I’m not criticising you Will, just making a general observation of videos on You Tube.
Totally agree.
DIY Solar Power with Will Prowse
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Huh, I honestly didn't think about this! I don't see any reason why one would fight the other. As long as they have about the same resistance, it should split even if it isnt a perfect split.
I see MPPSolar all-in-one device in background, any prediction on video release about that one? Waiting for your opinion before buying one.
Still testing it. Quite a few pros and cons
Video coming very soon