To everyone having a go at the UK remember we are a tiny country with very busy airspace. The Clacton zone is, I believe, one of the busiest ATC zones in the world. As a commercial pilot who regularly flies all over the world I have had my worst experiences in the US with confliction with VFR traffic below FL180 e.g. a full TCAS RA at about 5000 on approach to EWR in a 747! Maybe that’s why we have our rules, that sort of thing would happen far more regularly in the UK without stricter controls. I used to run an aerial photography company years ago and regularly got clearances to enter the LHR zone in between traffic on approach to do photo runs. They had a special procedure, not sure it’s available now but it can be done.
Recently retired commercial pilot, instructor and ex ATC duty manager here. This is one of the best responses: Very high density of traffic, lots of conflicting requirements. Yet you can fly the length and breadth of the country non- radio (with dog legs), weather permitting!
Many of those airfields are former RAF bases and while the airfield is closed the site is not - for example, Cottesmore which is where you are flying over at @11:58, is now Kendrew Barracks.
There's no legal problems with using an EFB while VFR, in fact the UK CAA *encourages* people to use a moving map GPS of any kind with an up-to-date airspace database, specifically to avoid airspace busts. Skydemon is the most popular in the UK
Well yes but also no. He said as primary navigation. As a rule the caa don't like anything that uses batteries or that was invented since 1933. They will recommend something but will sit on the fence avoiding any kind of commitment and instead refer you to a document that contains double or tripple negatives at the end of which you will not be clear what they just said. So you need a paper map. Obviously nobody ever uses a paper map in flight except as a sun shade.
That "abandoned" airfield at 11:54 is Kendrew Baracks (Formerly RAF Cottesomore) It was the home of Joint Force Harrier 1,3,4 Squadron and Naval Strike Wing. I was based there between 2003 and 2009. Fun fact, it hosted the Royal Internation Air Tatoo in 2000 and 2001 due to RAF Fairford having renovation works carried out.
Feeling really lucky I skip all that hassle just by being airline pilot when all the necessary documents, info, prior requests and stuff is provided by company.
I find this very interesting. I have only been flying 2 years in the south coast so busy airspace. I use Skydemon on a ipad to plan and in the air. I have flown from Bournemouth to Duxford after only 11 hours after i got my licence so a total airtime of 61 hours. I had no problems at all and find it all very simple. Perhaps as i learnt here out of a controlled airport EGHH i had a head start. I know people fear ATC but i have found them helpfull and easy to talk too. That said I only fly VFR I normally use a basic service and now i am looking at IFR I can see it might get more complicated.
Resident pilot at Compton Abbas here, Duxford is on my bucket list of aerodromes to visit. As someone who has been and done it, which route did you find to be successful? Many thanks
Love Compton. I am self fly hiring from there now and finding the new aircraft in much better nick than b4. I do however avoid it in winds from the south above 8-10 kts and hire from Bliss then :-) Bournemouth is lovely and easy to land at in any wind direction. Duxford was a lovely trip, I obviously phoned them first and they give you a good talk on landing proceedures and ground handling. Once airboard I just simply got a MATS over Middle Wallop and headed straight to Oxford. I was advised to then chat to Brize which suprised me as thought it would be Fanbough North. They then gave me MATZ over Benson which I had not planned but welcomed and then stayed under 3500 to avoid any possible issues with Stanstead. I called Duxford from Ashwell and was offered a long final as it was on 06 but elected to stay south and join downwind so i could have a good look at the place. However its is a big old runway and that was a bit OTT of me and i could have easily just flown straight in. Best days flying ever and its free entry for pilots and passangers at Duxford. My next Buckety list is I want to head to St Mary's on the Scilly Isles but need to get a share in something b4 that. What do you fly at Compton? @@mrmoss99
@@flyingmortgageman Great stuff, thank you for that. I've had a few trial flights out of BOH when I was younger, but ultimately it was far to expensive to learn & hire from there. I settled on Compton as it's a great versatile grass strip, and much much cheaper. I now have a share in a PA22 Piper Colt (G-ARKM) based there - and it's great. Not the fastest, only cruises at around 80 TAS, but ideal for what I need - and the wet rate is only £85/hr. I do sympathise with your wind argument however, we have a very strict group policy on the southerly wind limits for each runway - but for good reason. Being based there certainly keeps your xwind technique sharp, which is a bonus.
3:16 Airport Radio Services, we have a few of those at uncontrolled airports in New Zealand too. They can tell you what traffic there is in the area and the circuit but they can't tell you what to do. Just advise you. The few times I have encountered it I found the person on the radio very easy to communicate with and very helpful. It was reassuring to hear someone else having just flown some distance with no other traffic around me. 6:12 Uncontrolled Airports with IFR approaches. The only ones I can think of would be airports with a domestic carrier service flying out of them which is still in Class G. I doubt you have to book a time slot but if the commercial service is coming in don't be surprised if they ask (tell) you to stay out of their way. 9:12 Just like London you can not fly into Auckland Airport if you are GA, you have to fly into either Ardmore or North Shore Airfields. I have meet one person who after about two weeks of communication was given permission (or so the story went) to make a low pass but was instructed that they did not have permission to do even a touch and go, do not touch the runway. I have really been enjoying watching your videos and hope to one day fly over in Australia. Some things are just so good you have to see them from the sky.
I’ve flown a C152 into Auckland twice. It was just like any other class C airport. Granted it was a few years ago now… I also used to fly commercial IFR approaches into uncontrolled airspace at Wairoa, Napier and Gisborne (the latter two operating outside ATC hours) In Ardmore they have Unicom which is a useful service but not an ATS.
I fly a Cirrus in the UK. It seems complex if you’re not used to it but it quickly becomes second nature. And it means that when you fly anywhere else it all seems a doddle. There are lots of disused airfields in the UK especially in the South though many are ex world war 2 or USAF bases that are now used for other things or are mothballed.
I remember when flying with a friend from Bournemouth to Redhill, listening to Gatwick Director on our way into Redhill as we were under his control. The guy didn't stop for breath!
Enjoyed this Stefan! I fly out of Elstree and the service there often swaps back and forth between Elstree Information and Elstree Radio depending on which people have stepped out the tower to use the bathroom :) I basically end up phrasing all my ground movement calls as requests just in case the Information FISO jumps back on.
Just a correction, Sherburn RNP is the only uncontrolled airport IAP that is available to anyone (subject to being granted a slot, in a non-emergency). However, there are quite a few procedures that are typically unavailable to the general public but is available to commercial operators based at/air transport operators flying to that airport. For example, Barra, an uncontrolled airport, the local airlines have access to an NDB procedure. There is also a publicly published RNP but the AIP makes it so that the airport authority must give permission for it to be used.
Very interesting video, Stef. Maybe you can compliment this with Niko and compare it to flying in the US at some point? Creating a comparison video between flying general aviation in Australia, the UK and the US would yield a lot of useful information for the aviation community.
Good video, thanks Stefan. On the different level of services outside controlled airspace, for VFR it’s really only Basic Service (the name says it all) or Traffic Service (you might get told about traffic, but no guarantees!). Deconfliction service is only available to IFR flights, and very rarely used. Procedural service, also for IFR flights is actually not a radar service as you hinted - like the name suggests it’s for pilots typically following an instrument procedure with no radar coverage. Aircraft using the service and following a procedure are given traffic information about each other by the controller, based on pilots reporting their positions in the procedure. So again no guarantees and there might be other aircraft not on the service around you, so beware. Yes, it all sounds complicated, in practice it isn’t really - most pilots flying VFR rely on their eyes and sometimes EC devices like PilotAware or SkyEcho. As my instructor colleague is fond saying to his students: “What does VFR stand for? It’s stands for Look out the F*****n Window” 😅
The reason for the PPR requirements is the airports/aerodromes in the UK are privately owned. There aren't municipal airports in the UK like there are in a lot of countries. Naturally, if you are going to land on someone's private property, you need their permission. You shouldn't have any difficulty getting that permission, though - even just calling up on the radio when you are 10 miles out and asking nicely will probably work in most cases, although that isn't recommended. They much prefer people to call in advance so they can communicate noise abatement rules - they are paranoid about them because if too many pilots don't follow them and local residents complain to the council about planes flying low over their houses, the aerodrome could get shut down.
In Denmark we have Copenhagen Information (east and west, but often the same person). They do all 4 services in one. And one controller I often hear is a woman with an incredible nice voice. Clear, warm and nice. You just want to talk with her all day... CoIf really take care of you - but ok, it's just a small country.
It sometimes seems its a national ambition in the UK to complicate things. In this case I dare say they need to streamline things. That would probably increase Air safety.
In UK with Air Ground (call sign Bloggsville “RADIO”) I used to teach that the reason you are making radio calls is to advise other airspace users where you are and what you intend to do. You are emphatically NOT asking for permission from the Air Ground Operator (This is separate to PPR which is the airfield owner granting permission to use the airfield in accordance with any restrictions, eg operating hours). Same applies with Bloggsville “INFORMATION” EXCEPT they control you on the ground only. If the call sign is Bloggsville “TOWER” you now have licensed ATC so are obliged to follow the controller’s instructions subject to flight safety. Where I instructed for many year we only had Air Ground (Bloggsville RADIO) but a building which looked like a “control tower”. However when instructing I referred to it as the Air/Ground OPERATORS building and if I heard any pilot or student referring to it as a tower they would be politely corrected and/or educated. Airfields in the UK which are not in a Control Zone only have an Aerodrome Traffic Zone but by definition this is not controlled airspace although there are certain rules to obey such as all turns to the left (unless notified otherwise in the case of a right hand circuit) and conforming to the pattern made by other traffic. Operating outside controlled airspace (Class G) below FL100 LEGALLY you don’t need a radio or a transponder. (Only exception is a Radio Mandatory Zone at a few locations but let’s leave those aside for the moment). Generally it makes sense to use available ATC services though. The pilot requests which service is required on initial call. Bloggsville Approach CALLSIGN Request Basic or Traffic or Deconfliction Service. My take is that if the weather is good all I want is a Basic Service. Quite often you will be given a transponder code but under Basic you are NOT in receipt of a radar service. If the weather isn’t so good then I’m looking for a Traffic service where ATC will advise traffic and it is down to the PILOT to use that information to avoid if deemed necessary. Personally in GA in the UK below FL 100 I’d never want a Deconfliction Service since it’s too restrictive in busy airspace and this assumes ATC workload means they can give you a Deconfliction Service. Hope this helps. In fact once you know the ropes it’s quite simple really.
I gay my private license at RAF Woodbridge in the late ‘70’s with the USAF aero club. Airspace rules were fun. Had to know FAA rules, USAF rules, and the Queen’s rules. No EFIS or GPS in those days. And it was hard to find a straight road to do S turns over 😆
Airfields are prime building land in the UK and I suspect the economics of a few private planes aday often don't make them financially viable. Even airports such as Coventry with commercial stuff going on are likely to close due to development.
duxford is duxford info which means they control your movements on the ground but not in the air. So you can't move until there is someone in the tower clearing you to do so. I fly there often mainly for the museum and all the spitfires, hurricanes, biplanes from 1930s.
Glad you had a good time over here. A lot of the smaller air strips have PPR, Prior Permission Required because as unlicensed Air fields they are only allowed to operate for up to 28 days a year. More than that and their status needs to change.
You don't need an aerodrome licence to operate for more than 28 days. You just need planning permission. There are loads of unlicensed aerodromes that are open every day. Those operating under the 28 day rule are usually private farm strips for the use of the owner and, maybe, their friends.
Great video. I like your delivery style👍 It's great to get an overseas view of what everyone here thinks is normal 😂 I know that's true for everywhere 🤷
Interesting video. Part of the reason for the departure restrictions at Duxford is that (as you noted) the UK is pretty small. There are a number of villages around the airfield, and noise abatement is a real thing.
If what you're saying is that its overly complicated and creates an atmosphere of uncertainty which makes people avoid flying in many places then you're correct and it has to be 100pc intentional. With cost spiralling, building homes on airports, only a hard core of pilots 60 years old or more bother and soon they will be gone too such that the airlines will have their way with all the airspace above 2000ft and all the airspace below that will belong to Amazon and GA will not be a thing.
I’ve flown a VFR flight from Hilversum-Lydd-Old Sarum (and v.v.), in between LGW, LHR, FAB and so on without GPS and only the required physical maps. It can be done, provided you have someone next to you who’s proficient in reading and applying VFR maps to a real situation. P.S. it was a blast!
A "flying in the UK using only paper maps" would make for a good TH-cam video. I've done that in Australia before, but that's a lot quieter and has a lot less airspace!
It’s the same for us airline guys too! The push/start/taxi procedure at Heathrow is the most complicated on the planet. It always feels like they’ve added layers because someone’s cousin needed a job. But, as you said, their country, their rules.😊
Really? Clearance via PDC, call for start with clearance, speak to ground for push/taxi, guided taxi at night and the best controllers in the world. I can think of many more complicated airports than LHR.
Found this really interesting Stefan. I fly IFR in the uk which is really easy. But I’d be pretty intimidated to try VFR operations and you highlight why nicely. I’ve flown thousands of hours of VFR in 7 countries, mostly commercial ops, and the UK is completely different.
As a Canadian I've flown in the U.S.A. without any issues and would expect much the same flying in Australia. I'd have to do my homework before flying in the U.K. What you're used to make a huge difference: I learned to fly at an airport with a tower. The first time I flew to an uncontrolled airport it scared the crap out of me... In Canada we have lots of airports with an advisory ground station ("Mandatory Frequency"). My home base Kamloops CYKA is such an airport. Kamloops Radio provides weather and traffic information. It's up to us pilots to decide what to do with it.
Makes me squirm watching.Back in 2006, I returned to the UK from working as a pilot in the USA. The expenses were staggering. Going from £90ph to £350ph for a Duchess; having to stump up money to do an ILS and having to hold 30 minutes because a Dash 8 was in the vicinity. That said, once I sort of figured it out, it was an interesting and nice place to fly a Navajo. But for private pilots, think I'd fly elsewhere or in VR.
I personally believe that the UK General aviation industry needs a modern overhaul. It’s quite restrictive at times. But it is what it is. We make do with it.
Hey Steve, no I choose not to discuss aviation incidents where there’s no official report. It was a very sad event, but no use adding my opinion to the already many opinions out there. I’m not that sort of channel I’m afraid.
UK flying is made very complicated for no reason. PPR, airspace, lack of available airports, airports closing soon as the sun sets, hardly any airports have pilot controlled lighting, if they do they don't allow pilots to use it. Not many instrument approaches and they charge to use them (for training). The Duxford incident sums up flying in the UK but I guess we have to be grateful that we have a nice GA community.
Interesting video. Now I realise it hasn't been such a bad idea to stick to desktop simulators for 20 years and not pursue the all-too-expensive hobby/dream of becoming a private pilot. Looks like we have tried to sap some of the joy out of flying over here. The road trip analogy was a good one! :)
Sorry to burst that bubble. Learning to fly an airplane myself is still the most amazing thing I have ever done, even if I need to vent about ridiculous German Air Laws (which are similarly ridiculous)
@@formfaktor I really can imagine how great it must be. I have done a couple of trial flights before and love flying, but after 10 minutes I am in cold sweats, nearly fainting, and then vomiting, and so I tell myself never again. Another plus for the simulator, with no VR motion sickness either (surprisingly).
Hilarious how you tried so hard to be polite and diplomatic about the UK organisation and procedures. I could visibly see the head-shaking astonishment of the ridiculous over-complication in your body language. I do apologise. UK airspace is like some sort of ancient machine that has been added to and modified and modified and had all manner of bits bolted on and wired up over the decades. It would be fantastic if we could all sit down round a table and start from scratch and simplify it all, but the big commercial vested interests (and the politicians in their pockets) would just railroad the rest of us. So, the enormous ridiculous machine clanks and groans on. The CAA is known as the Campaign Against Aviation for some reason.
I have a couple of questions. How many, (if any,) stops would you need to fly from your home airport to Archerfield, Brisbane? Do you have any plans for a flight to Queensland in the future? Wishing you and your family a wonderful weekend.
Hey Shelley, I can do Moorabbin to Archerfield non-stop, I actually made a video about that very flight here: th-cam.com/video/Z6oK_mPKp8w/w-d-xo.html And no short-term plans to get to QLD but prob will at some point in 2024. Thanks, have a great weekend yourself.
I just watched the Archerfield video and enjoyed it very much. I understand the anxiety you felt, it is a long flight. What I like the most about your videos is your humility and honesty, no sugar coating, just reality. (And great views.) Thanks again.
What EFB software did you use in the UK? I would be keen on looking at the PRD UK equivalent as there’s so many military bases and training areas. Also, what’s their version of ERSA? Cheers (I am a Pom, just been here 15 years and PPL in Aus only)
Thanks Johas, I haven't got as much experience flying in France so I'm probably not well placed to make a video like this. But maybe in the future if I get to fly there more.
The UK rules are slightly embarrassing. I hope we get them updated to the US and Australias standards soon. GA feels much more restricted over here than in the US and Auz.
I love flying but here in the uk it just is too full of jobs worths who want to make it a beurocratic nightmare, so i went with rc flying instead, 40 years later and they are killing that too...😅
In Canada all RCAF bases are PPR, and if you don't have bona fide business on the base the answer will be a flat NO. Private airports tend to be PPR, the owner decides.
@@davidwebb4904 I never knew that it was legal in the US to take your dog for a walk on someone else's land without permission,, good job I don't live there.
Stef, I know you probally can’t reply but it’s my dads birthday coming up and absolutely loves watching your videos if there’s any chance you could reply with a message, I understand if you can’t. Cheers
It is truly one of the worst organised airspace’s in the world, a report from an official investigation recently declared UKs airspace unfit for purpose. Nothing was done about it though! Standard UK mismanagement.
Yeah it's crap here, I wanted to learn to fly and I CAN but I just could not stand the look of all the rules and regs here in the UK so I just flew RC stuff instead, funnily enough even the RC flying clubs had so many rules and jobs worth's that I just fly on my own.😅
To everyone having a go at the UK remember we are a tiny country with very busy airspace. The Clacton zone is, I believe, one of the busiest ATC zones in the world. As a commercial pilot who regularly flies all over the world I have had my worst experiences in the US with confliction with VFR traffic below FL180 e.g. a full TCAS RA at about 5000 on approach to EWR in a 747! Maybe that’s why we have our rules, that sort of thing would happen far more regularly in the UK without stricter controls. I used to run an aerial photography company years ago and regularly got clearances to enter the LHR zone in between traffic on approach to do photo runs. They had a special procedure, not sure it’s available now but it can be done.
Recently retired commercial pilot, instructor and ex ATC duty manager here.
This is one of the best responses: Very high density of traffic, lots of conflicting requirements.
Yet you can fly the length and breadth of the country non- radio (with dog legs), weather permitting!
Many of those airfields are former RAF bases and while the airfield is closed the site is not - for example, Cottesmore which is where you are flying over at @11:58, is now Kendrew Barracks.
Bloody hell. Gee how lucky are we flying in Australia
Yes well said, it’s a great country to fly in for sure
I'll add Canada to that. 😊
Imagine flying upside down
Add the US to that. The only place in the US that comes close to the UK is the "DC SFRA" when flying VFR.
There's no legal problems with using an EFB while VFR, in fact the UK CAA *encourages* people to use a moving map GPS of any kind with an up-to-date airspace database, specifically to avoid airspace busts. Skydemon is the most popular in the UK
Well yes but also no. He said as primary navigation. As a rule the caa don't like anything that uses batteries or that was invented since 1933. They will recommend something but will sit on the fence avoiding any kind of commitment and instead refer you to a document that contains double or tripple negatives at the end of which you will not be clear what they just said. So you need a paper map. Obviously nobody ever uses a paper map in flight except as a sun shade.
That "abandoned" airfield at 11:54 is Kendrew Baracks (Formerly RAF Cottesomore) It was the home of Joint Force Harrier 1,3,4 Squadron and Naval Strike Wing. I was based there between 2003 and 2009. Fun fact, it hosted the Royal Internation Air Tatoo in 2000 and 2001 due to RAF Fairford having renovation works carried out.
No way, that is a good fact. Thanks for letting us know.
Weren't they the Harriers that had the Black and Red Tail and Lighting going through the middle
Feeling really lucky I skip all that hassle just by being airline pilot when all the necessary documents, info, prior requests and stuff is provided by company.
I find this very interesting. I have only been flying 2 years in the south coast so busy airspace. I use Skydemon on a ipad to plan and in the air. I have flown from Bournemouth to Duxford after only 11 hours after i got my licence so a total airtime of 61 hours. I had no problems at all and find it all very simple. Perhaps as i learnt here out of a controlled airport EGHH i had a head start. I know people fear ATC but i have found them helpfull and easy to talk too. That said I only fly VFR I normally use a basic service and now i am looking at IFR I can see it might get more complicated.
Resident pilot at Compton Abbas here, Duxford is on my bucket list of aerodromes to visit. As someone who has been and done it, which route did you find to be successful? Many thanks
Love Compton. I am self fly hiring from there now and finding the new aircraft in much better nick than b4. I do however avoid it in winds from the south above 8-10 kts and hire from Bliss then :-) Bournemouth is lovely and easy to land at in any wind direction. Duxford was a lovely trip, I obviously phoned them first and they give you a good talk on landing proceedures and ground handling. Once airboard I just simply got a MATS over Middle Wallop and headed straight to Oxford. I was advised to then chat to Brize which suprised me as thought it would be Fanbough North. They then gave me MATZ over Benson which I had not planned but welcomed and then stayed under 3500 to avoid any possible issues with Stanstead. I called Duxford from Ashwell and was offered a long final as it was on 06 but elected to stay south and join downwind so i could have a good look at the place. However its is a big old runway and that was a bit OTT of me and i could have easily just flown straight in. Best days flying ever and its free entry for pilots and passangers at Duxford. My next Buckety list is I want to head to St Mary's on the Scilly Isles but need to get a share in something b4 that. What do you fly at Compton? @@mrmoss99
@@flyingmortgageman Great stuff, thank you for that. I've had a few trial flights out of BOH when I was younger, but ultimately it was far to expensive to learn & hire from there. I settled on Compton as it's a great versatile grass strip, and much much cheaper. I now have a share in a PA22 Piper Colt (G-ARKM) based there - and it's great. Not the fastest, only cruises at around 80 TAS, but ideal for what I need - and the wet rate is only £85/hr. I do sympathise with your wind argument however, we have a very strict group policy on the southerly wind limits for each runway - but for good reason. Being based there certainly keeps your xwind technique sharp, which is a bonus.
3:16 Airport Radio Services, we have a few of those at uncontrolled airports in New Zealand too. They can tell you what traffic there is in the area and the circuit but they can't tell you what to do. Just advise you. The few times I have encountered it I found the person on the radio very easy to communicate with and very helpful. It was reassuring to hear someone else having just flown some distance with no other traffic around me.
6:12 Uncontrolled Airports with IFR approaches. The only ones I can think of would be airports with a domestic carrier service flying out of them which is still in Class G. I doubt you have to book a time slot but if the commercial service is coming in don't be surprised if they ask (tell) you to stay out of their way.
9:12 Just like London you can not fly into Auckland Airport if you are GA, you have to fly into either Ardmore or North Shore Airfields. I have meet one person who after about two weeks of communication was given permission (or so the story went) to make a low pass but was instructed that they did not have permission to do even a touch and go, do not touch the runway.
I have really been enjoying watching your videos and hope to one day fly over in Australia. Some things are just so good you have to see them from the sky.
I’ve flown a C152 into Auckland twice. It was just like any other class C airport. Granted it was a few years ago now…
I also used to fly commercial IFR approaches into uncontrolled airspace at Wairoa, Napier and Gisborne (the latter two operating outside ATC hours)
In Ardmore they have Unicom which is a useful service but not an ATS.
I fly a Cirrus in the UK. It seems complex if you’re not used to it but it quickly becomes second nature. And it means that when you fly anywhere else it all seems a doddle.
There are lots of disused airfields in the UK especially in the South though many are ex world war 2 or USAF bases that are now used for other things or are mothballed.
I remember when flying with a friend from Bournemouth to Redhill, listening to Gatwick Director on our way into Redhill as we were under his control. The guy didn't stop for breath!
I feel very blessed flying in South Africa
Enjoyed this Stefan! I fly out of Elstree and the service there often swaps back and forth between Elstree Information and Elstree Radio depending on which people have stepped out the tower to use the bathroom :) I basically end up phrasing all my ground movement calls as requests just in case the Information FISO jumps back on.
Ha, good idea, I might do that next time I'm there Ed. Thanks for watching, enjoy your flying.
@@StefanDrury hope to see you back here at some point 🙌🏻
The fountain of knowledge Jon Hunt :)
Just a correction, Sherburn RNP is the only uncontrolled airport IAP that is available to anyone (subject to being granted a slot, in a non-emergency). However, there are quite a few procedures that are typically unavailable to the general public but is available to commercial operators based at/air transport operators flying to that airport.
For example, Barra, an uncontrolled airport, the local airlines have access to an NDB procedure. There is also a publicly published RNP but the AIP makes it so that the airport authority must give permission for it to be used.
Don't often comment but thought I had to on this one. Sherburn airfield is where I trained and got my PPL, a great place.
I've never visited but would love to next time I'm in the UK. Thanks Rob.
@@StefanDrury You would love it I'm sure. Thank you for the reply and thank you for the great content. 😊
Very interesting video, Stef. Maybe you can compliment this with Niko and compare it to flying in the US at some point? Creating a comparison video between flying general aviation in Australia, the UK and the US would yield a lot of useful information for the aviation community.
If it helps I'd be happy to put something like this together. Any excuse to have a chat with my mate Niko as well.
@@StefanDrury Awesome! Would love to see you guys come up with something!
@@StefanDrury would love to see that comparison as well. This video was great as well, thank you.
Good video, thanks Stefan. On the different level of services outside controlled airspace, for VFR it’s really only Basic Service (the name says it all) or Traffic Service (you might get told about traffic, but no guarantees!). Deconfliction service is only available to IFR flights, and very rarely used. Procedural service, also for IFR flights is actually not a radar service as you hinted - like the name suggests it’s for pilots typically following an instrument procedure with no radar coverage. Aircraft using the service and following a procedure are given traffic information about each other by the controller, based on pilots reporting their positions in the procedure. So again no guarantees and there might be other aircraft not on the service around you, so beware. Yes, it all sounds complicated, in practice it isn’t really - most pilots flying VFR rely on their eyes and sometimes EC devices like PilotAware or SkyEcho. As my instructor colleague is fond saying to his students: “What does VFR stand for? It’s stands for Look out the F*****n Window” 😅
The reason for the PPR requirements is the airports/aerodromes in the UK are privately owned. There aren't municipal airports in the UK like there are in a lot of countries. Naturally, if you are going to land on someone's private property, you need their permission. You shouldn't have any difficulty getting that permission, though - even just calling up on the radio when you are 10 miles out and asking nicely will probably work in most cases, although that isn't recommended. They much prefer people to call in advance so they can communicate noise abatement rules - they are paranoid about them because if too many pilots don't follow them and local residents complain to the council about planes flying low over their houses, the aerodrome could get shut down.
In Denmark we have Copenhagen Information (east and west, but often the same person). They do all 4 services in one. And one controller I often hear is a woman with an incredible nice voice. Clear, warm and nice. You just want to talk with her all day... CoIf really take care of you - but ok, it's just a small country.
I always visit my local aerodrome as often as possible! little Lashenden Headcorn in Kent, lovely airfield
Nice to see your angle on what it’s like flying here !
It sometimes seems its a national ambition in the UK to complicate things. In this case I dare say they need to streamline things. That would probably increase Air safety.
UK has an excellent air safety record for what is a highly populated country; because of the rules and regulations.
In UK with Air Ground (call sign Bloggsville “RADIO”) I used to teach that the reason you are making radio calls is to advise other airspace users where you are and what you intend to do. You are emphatically NOT asking for permission from the Air Ground Operator (This is separate to PPR which is the airfield owner granting permission to use the airfield in accordance with any restrictions, eg operating hours).
Same applies with Bloggsville “INFORMATION” EXCEPT they control you on the ground only.
If the call sign is Bloggsville “TOWER” you now have licensed ATC so are obliged to follow the controller’s instructions subject to flight safety.
Where I instructed for many year we only had Air Ground (Bloggsville RADIO) but a building which looked like a “control tower”. However when instructing I referred to it as the Air/Ground OPERATORS building and if I heard any pilot or student referring to it as a tower they would be politely corrected and/or educated.
Airfields in the UK which are not in a Control Zone only have an Aerodrome Traffic Zone but by definition this is not controlled airspace although there are certain rules to obey such as all turns to the left (unless notified otherwise in the case of a right hand circuit) and conforming to the pattern made by other traffic.
Operating outside controlled airspace (Class G) below FL100 LEGALLY you don’t need a radio or a transponder. (Only exception is a Radio Mandatory Zone at a few locations but let’s leave those aside for the moment).
Generally it makes sense to use available ATC services though. The pilot requests which service is required on initial call. Bloggsville Approach CALLSIGN Request Basic or Traffic or Deconfliction Service.
My take is that if the weather is good all I want is a Basic Service. Quite often you will be given a transponder code but under Basic you are NOT in receipt of a radar service.
If the weather isn’t so good then I’m looking for a Traffic service where ATC will advise traffic and it is down to the PILOT to use that information to avoid if deemed necessary.
Personally in GA in the UK below FL 100 I’d never want a Deconfliction Service since it’s too restrictive in busy airspace and this assumes ATC workload means they can give you a Deconfliction Service.
Hope this helps. In fact once you know the ropes it’s quite simple really.
I gay my private license at RAF Woodbridge in the late ‘70’s with the USAF aero club. Airspace rules were fun. Had to know FAA rules, USAF rules, and the Queen’s rules. No EFIS or GPS in those days. And it was hard to find a straight road to do S turns over 😆
Airfields are prime building land in the UK and I suspect the economics of a few private planes aday often don't make them financially viable. Even airports such as Coventry with commercial stuff going on are likely to close due to development.
duxford is duxford info which means they control your movements on the ground but not in the air. So you can't move until there is someone in the tower clearing you to do so. I fly there often mainly for the museum and all the spitfires, hurricanes, biplanes from 1930s.
Next time do some grass strip flying over here, different world altogether
Glad you had a good time over here. A lot of the smaller air strips have PPR, Prior Permission Required because as unlicensed Air fields they are only allowed to operate for up to 28 days a year. More than that and their status needs to change.
You don't need an aerodrome licence to operate for more than 28 days. You just need planning permission. There are loads of unlicensed aerodromes that are open every day. Those operating under the 28 day rule are usually private farm strips for the use of the owner and, maybe, their friends.
@@thomasdalton1508 Many thanks for that. Sounds easy enough. Cheers.
Great video. I like your delivery style👍
It's great to get an overseas view of what everyone here thinks is normal 😂
I know that's true for everywhere 🤷
Interesting video. Part of the reason for the departure restrictions at Duxford is that (as you noted) the UK is pretty small. There are a number of villages around the airfield, and noise abatement is a real thing.
"Flying in the UK is like a road trip with your parents". I'm stealing that quote if you don't mind. :D
If what you're saying is that its overly complicated and creates an atmosphere of uncertainty which makes people avoid flying in many places then you're correct and it has to be 100pc intentional. With cost spiralling, building homes on airports, only a hard core of pilots 60 years old or more bother and soon they will be gone too such that the airlines will have their way with all the airspace above 2000ft and all the airspace below that will belong to Amazon and GA will not be a thing.
Sadly, I believe you’ve hit the nail on the head with this comment.
Thanks a lot for this video it answers so many of my questions and I feel more confident planning a trip there now ❤
while still very different in the details, the complexity is strikingly similar to Germany, if not a tad more complex, as if that was ever possible.
I’ve flown a VFR flight from Hilversum-Lydd-Old Sarum (and v.v.), in between LGW, LHR, FAB and so on without GPS and only the required physical maps. It can be done, provided you have someone next to you who’s proficient in reading and applying VFR maps to a real situation. P.S. it was a blast!
A "flying in the UK using only paper maps" would make for a good TH-cam video. I've done that in Australia before, but that's a lot quieter and has a lot less airspace!
It’s the same for us airline guys too! The push/start/taxi procedure at Heathrow is the most complicated on the planet. It always feels like they’ve added layers because someone’s cousin needed a job. But, as you said, their country, their rules.😊
Really? Clearance via PDC, call for start with clearance, speak to ground for push/taxi, guided taxi at night and the best controllers in the world. I can think of many more complicated airports than LHR.
@@lensaero
Agreed, follow the greens makes it so easy at night. Can’t understand why more airports don’t have this capability!
Found this really interesting Stefan. I fly IFR in the uk which is really easy. But I’d be pretty intimidated to try VFR operations and you highlight why nicely. I’ve flown thousands of hours of VFR in 7 countries, mostly commercial ops, and the UK is completely different.
Summed up perfectly (uk based pilot)
As a Canadian I've flown in the U.S.A. without any issues and would expect much the same flying in Australia. I'd have to do my homework before flying in the U.K. What you're used to make a huge difference: I learned to fly at an airport with a tower. The first time I flew to an uncontrolled airport it scared the crap out of me...
In Canada we have lots of airports with an advisory ground station ("Mandatory Frequency"). My home base Kamloops CYKA is such an airport. Kamloops Radio provides weather and traffic information. It's up to us pilots to decide what to do with it.
Makes me squirm watching.Back in 2006, I returned to the UK from working as a pilot in the USA. The expenses were staggering. Going from £90ph to £350ph for a Duchess; having to stump up money to do an ILS and having to hold 30 minutes because a Dash 8 was in the vicinity. That said, once I sort of figured it out, it was an interesting and nice place to fly a Navajo. But for private pilots, think I'd fly elsewhere or in VR.
Judging by this video it seems flying in Australia is a lot less complex. Thanks Stef
I’m watching the start of this thinking this is something the flying reporter would be good to answer. And there he was 😂
I personally believe that the UK General aviation industry needs a modern overhaul. It’s quite restrictive at times. But it is what it is. We make do with it.
hello! just to let you know, Leeds East Airport is another uncontrolled airport with instrument approaches
I'm interested in Italy 🇮🇹. This one was great, can you do the next one in Italy?
Stef 👍👍 Thanks
Thanks for watching
Stef are you going to talk about the recent SR22 crash out side of Canberra? Very sad.
Hey Steve, no I choose not to discuss aviation incidents where there’s no official report. It was a very sad event, but no use adding my opinion to the already many opinions out there. I’m not that sort of channel I’m afraid.
Can you send this to the CAA, they want the UK to be the best in the world for flying GA. I can't see it happening.
UK flying is made very complicated for no reason. PPR, airspace, lack of available airports, airports closing soon as the sun sets, hardly any airports have pilot controlled lighting, if they do they don't allow pilots to use it. Not many instrument approaches and they charge to use them (for training). The Duxford incident sums up flying in the UK but I guess we have to be grateful that we have a nice GA community.
I'll never complain about Australia again!
how did you get on with airport joins in the uk? and hights?
Interesting video. Now I realise it hasn't been such a bad idea to stick to desktop simulators for 20 years and not pursue the all-too-expensive hobby/dream of becoming a private pilot. Looks like we have tried to sap some of the joy out of flying over here. The road trip analogy was a good one! :)
Sorry to burst that bubble. Learning to fly an airplane myself is still the most amazing thing I have ever done, even if I need to vent about ridiculous German Air Laws (which are similarly ridiculous)
@@formfaktor I really can imagine how great it must be. I have done a couple of trial flights before and love flying, but after 10 minutes I am in cold sweats, nearly fainting, and then vomiting, and so I tell myself never again. Another plus for the simulator, with no VR motion sickness either (surprisingly).
Hilarious how you tried so hard to be polite and diplomatic about the UK organisation and procedures. I could visibly see the head-shaking astonishment of the ridiculous over-complication in your body language. I do apologise. UK airspace is like some sort of ancient machine that has been added to and modified and modified and had all manner of bits bolted on and wired up over the decades. It would be fantastic if we could all sit down round a table and start from scratch and simplify it all, but the big commercial vested interests (and the politicians in their pockets) would just railroad the rest of us. So, the enormous ridiculous machine clanks and groans on.
The CAA is known as the Campaign Against Aviation for some reason.
I have a couple of questions. How many, (if any,) stops would you need to fly from your home airport to Archerfield, Brisbane? Do you have any plans for a flight to Queensland in the future?
Wishing you and your family a wonderful weekend.
Hey Shelley, I can do Moorabbin to Archerfield non-stop, I actually made a video about that very flight here: th-cam.com/video/Z6oK_mPKp8w/w-d-xo.html
And no short-term plans to get to QLD but prob will at some point in 2024.
Thanks, have a great weekend yourself.
I just watched the Archerfield video and enjoyed it very much. I understand the anxiety you felt, it is a long flight. What I like the most about your videos is your humility and honesty, no sugar coating, just reality. (And great views.) Thanks again.
What EFB software did you use in the UK?
I would be keen on looking at the PRD UK equivalent as there’s so many military bases and training areas. Also, what’s their version of ERSA?
Cheers (I am a Pom, just been here 15 years and PPL in Aus only)
Mostly Garmin Pilot, but I also had SkyDemon which I referred to for some airspace / frequency information.
Very interesting video. Are you by any chance planning on doing a similar one for France?
Thanks Johas, I haven't got as much experience flying in France so I'm probably not well placed to make a video like this. But maybe in the future if I get to fly there more.
We do like our rules 🇬🇧
The UK rules are slightly embarrassing. I hope we get them updated to the US and Australias standards soon. GA feels much more restricted over here than in the US and Auz.
You should fly in France next time. It's a lot simpler ! 😅
Do you pay for the different VFR services ?
Nope
I love flying but here in the uk it just is too full of jobs worths who want to make it a beurocratic nightmare, so i went with rc flying instead, 40 years later and they are killing that too...😅
PPR to depart is so stupid. In the US PPR to arrive is only at military airports.
Please don't compare apples and oranges, and it's PPR to land at someone's airfield if they state so, that's common sense.
@@davidwebb4904 the first three words are the relevant ones. The UK is not the US.
In Canada all RCAF bases are PPR, and if you don't have bona fide business on the base the answer will be a flat NO. Private airports tend to be PPR, the owner decides.
@@davidwebb4904 I never knew that it was legal in the US to take your dog for a walk on someone else's land without permission,, good job I don't live there.
You should pass by Switzerland. Then we can fly the Alps. Aviation is simpler than UK.
👍
Best and easiest way to fly VFR in the UK is.... to fly IFR.
I did miss my Instrument Rating when I was in the UK. Trying to add that to my FAA license so next time I can do exactly that!
Well, bugger me! It looks like you flew over my house. I wish I'd have known. I'd have given you a wave.
Next time you'd better...! 👋
Aviation in England described in one word is paranoid…that’s what you get with a government that thinks it needs to tell you to mind the gap😜
Stef, I know you probally can’t reply but it’s my dads birthday coming up and absolutely loves watching your videos if there’s any chance you could reply with a message, I understand if you can’t. Cheers
Happy Birthday to britannic_2556's Dad. Please pass on my regards and thanks for supporting my work. Now go make him a cup of tea.
@@StefanDrury Thanks for replying he was really happy to see it!
It is truly one of the worst organised airspace’s in the world, a report from an official investigation recently declared UKs airspace unfit for purpose. Nothing was done about it though! Standard UK mismanagement.
Yeah it's crap here, I wanted to learn to fly and I CAN but I just could not stand the look of all the rules and regs here in the UK so I just flew RC stuff instead, funnily enough even the RC flying clubs had so many rules and jobs worth's that I just fly on my own.😅
You look a bit like Rishi Sunak 😅
I wonder if this guy got a 'YTFVPS' (TH-cam Flight Video Permission Slip) from ATC in order to post this video? 😆
In the UK we fly on the correct side of the sky. But so do Australia so what's the problem? 🤡
You are describing tyranny. PERIOD.
I guess you are not as bright as you thought you were?
This video makes me want to throw tea in Boston Harbor