How Did Colleen Hoover Get Even Worse?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 9 ก.พ. 2024
- Check out my review of the first book in the Slammed Series here: • Colleen Hoover Is A To...
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Check out my review of the first book in the Slammed Series here: th-cam.com/video/1Atr9xgomrk/w-d-xo.html
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That part with them talking about how grown the 11 yr old girl is beyond gross. My daughter just turned 11 yesterday. There is no way you would look at her and think "Wow she's such an adult". People need to stop trying to force little girls to be older than they are. That stuff ruined my childhood.
as someone who hit puberty at 9 and developed early, this is how a lot of adults approached me.... it's disgusting and really detrimental to a kid who is just trying to -be.a.kid-. It really does ruin childhood for so many people.
Yeah. I have an 11 year old sister and that part just disgusted me so much. Like 11 year olds are still children who still need to experience childhood. If they were talking about a 17 year old being like an adult (so like an 18 year old), okay, some people are more grown than others at that age, but it's still weird because of the person saying it.
I remember being 11. I didn't know a single thing - the highlights of that year probably all involved levelling up in my favourite mobile game.
That was also the year I started my period. Didn't make me any more of an adult; it just made me a still-inexperienced child who was just starting to learn what a mess hormones are. I'm thankful there weren't any adults in my life calling me grown. Every kid should be so lucky.
My nephew turns 11 this year and if anyone would talk about him the way they talked about the 11 year old in the book I would GO OFF!
this!! i hit puberty at 11. suddenly i was no longer a little girl but a "young lady." i couldn't play with my cousins anymore (that were boys). i couldn't act silly anymore or enjoy childhood things. i had to be a "little adult." its crazy how adults view kids.
It’s horrifying that Colleen’s sense of humour goes from ‘haha what if I say butterfly instead of shit’ to ‘let’s psychologically torment these young traumatised children by making them believe they’re about to be brutalised!!’
How is that funny? Is this why Colleen is so popular despite her mid level of talent?
And that is IMMEDIATELY followed by assault
Colleen has
- Ballinger humor
- imperial death forces humor
Theory that the reason Layken is fine without her medical history being filled out is because she doesn’t have a history at all. She’s not enough of a real character so her medical record is absolutely blank. She has no blood.
No blood lmaooo I'm sobbing
2:00:08
A stranger in the audience, seeing a grown man talking about falling in love with a person wearing children's slippers, kicking gnomes, getting grades in school, wearing hair clips and drinking chocolate milk: "I-- is this about a child? I think we should call the police."
If my boyfriend stole a bunch of my possessions, including those with sentimental value and then presented them to a crowd of people while reading a poem of his own creation, publicly show-and-telling the personal details of my life and our relationship, I would file a restraining order.
Edit: I’m getting a kick out of imagining a normal person attending this slam poetry event and having to sit through Will’s “poem.” He’s hogging the stage for like ten minutes while everyone else prays for death.
I just don’t understand why people adore her writing so much.
You and me both. It’s not even good writing.
Someone else's comment that made me laugh, "Some people like fast food"
@@cai3886As someone who’s grown up on fast food and has a soft spot for the way it tastes, I don’t fucking understand why people like CoHo’s writing even from a junky, guilty pleasure PoV
One thing I feel needs to be said regarding this disgusting book: Physically trapping a person, blocking them, or cornering them IS physical abuse. It is one of the most overlooked types of physical abuse because it doesn't leave bruises or visible damage, and the abuser can easily rephrase its abuse as protection. I.E.: "I was afraid you would hurt yourself", "You can't just run away from me, we need to talk", "You're overreacting", and other various gaslighty terms.
yeah my ex sat in front of a doorway and wouldnt let me pass so i punched him in the head and throat and the cops arrested him. a couple other things happened but they told me i didnt do anything wrong trying to get out
I don’t think anyone has purposely physically prevented me from moving where I wanted since I was a tiny child and needed to be occasionally restrained from escaping into chaos. The very thought of it is more unnerving to me than the thought of some kinds of violence. Even when people unintentionally block my path of egress it can make me very antsy. Doing it on purpose is just not something that is acceptable.
I remember needing an infected lump drained once, but I was terrified of needles. I was cornered, held down, and had it drained. I know I needed it done to prevent me getting sick, but I remember the nurses pinning me down more than I remember the feeling of the draining itself. Now I can't have people hold me too tight or I get really uncomfortable and nervous. In my case I know it needed doing or I'd be really sick and maybe die, but it was still traumatic, y'know? And no one in this book has anything CLOSE to the excuse those nurses had with me.
fuck, thats physical abuse? oh no. thats a disturbing revelation. what.... i need to like, get away..... even more now.......
hope you're okay@@thefoxandthehound81
So my 2 cents on the hospital/brain surgery thing. Source: I work in medicine with doctors and am an aspiring doctor myself, and I've helped care for several folks who've had brain surgery.
1) not only is putting down the wrong last name dangerous, it could be considered insurance fraud. if her name on her insurance and the name on her medical records didn't match, insurance may not have paid for any of it
2) prior to planned surgery, especially brain surgery, most people get a chlorhexidine bath to knock down your normal flora on your skin and prevent infection. I get it may have been an emergency but for God's sake, they would have gotten the mud and blood off her prior to going to the OR. At the very least, a nurse would have helped bathe her while she was in the ICU after to help preserve her dignity and keep her safe and healthy.
3) speaking of, no half decent nurse would have let a 19 year old who just had brain surgery get bathed by her SO. It's not in the patient's interest and does not preserve her dignity. The only way they might let it happen is if the patient insisted and even then with all the drains and stuff from surgery, the nurse would hopefully had guided her away from that decision.
4) most loved ones of people who had brain surgery are terrified of touching or hurting the patient. There's usually drains, lines and tubes hooked to the person post brain surgery for several weeks, they flit in and out of consciousness, moods are all over the place. People who've been married for 60+ years don't crawl into bed with their partners. Will is a weirdo (but we know that).
5) idk what that thing with the bath was. We don't have baths in patient rooms at my hospital, or most American hospitals. It's more like a tiny wet room toilet-shower combo with the sink out in the main room with the bed. I think Colleen Hoovers only experience with hospitals is maternity wards, which explains a lot.
Yikes I haven't gotten this far in the video and I'm already regretting my life decisions XD this sounds like a terrible series of scenes coming up 😂😅
@@roselover411 😂 tbh if she actually COMMITTED and made it realistic it might actually be interesting (like with her other book, Layla before...well the twist).
As an actual medical doctor, I’d like to add:
1. Falsifying medical records is concerning for the reason Rachel said: giving the wrong identity can cause allergies and meds and medical history to be missed that may be critical to care. It’s only insurance fraud if you’re trying to use someone else’s insurance. Giving a fictitious name isn’t insurance fraud and it’s not the biggest issue here.
2. ICU nurses would absolutely never allow an adult in bed with a medically tenuous patient
3. Not all brain surgery requires tubes/drains/shunts/extensive bandages. “Brain surgery” is an unhelpful description from a medical perspective because theres a huge variety of procedures that applies to. But it’s Colleen Hoover who may have struggled stringing those two words together
4. The nurses would have cleaned the blood and grit off of her relatively soon after the emergency surgery with saline wipes or other cleanser (everything around the incision would have been scrubbed for surgery, anything else could have been covered with sterile drapes for surgery and dealt with later). “Baths” for hospital patients in critical condition means being wiped down with cleansers, no immersion in water in most cases. If a spouse was there, they are usually asked by nursing to leave but sometimes actual loved ones do want to participate in whatever caregiving they can.
5. Some hospital floors have tub rooms as above but those tubs are not large enough for 2 people. One exception can be burn units but that doesn’t apply here.
Thankfully Colleen Hoover doesn’t try to get into any kind of medical nuance because if she did any research at all it was watching an episode of Grays Anatomy.
When I had my hysterectomy, the nurses wouldn’t even let my own MOTHER into the recovery room until they had gotten a gown on me and helped me to the toilet after my surgery - even though I let them know ahead of time that she was the emergency contact, and would be picking me up and looking after me while I healed. And I was 28 at the time.
I hadn’t specifically consented to that specific help ahead of time and I was drugged af on morphine so I couldn’t give consent in the moment, so the nurses handled it instead. (Tbf, I didn’t ask for my mom’s help beyond “is my mom still here?” as I was cool with the nurses helping me, and mom was only like “is there anything I can do to help her right now” so she wasn’t specifically asking.)
So… about as accurate as the whole 21 year old “student teaching” a senior poetry class with no actual teaching overseeing him.
One of the things I DESPISED about this book is how all of the mother's last gestures before her death were about pushing her daughters into the arms of a stranger. Why did he need to be included in the jar of messages?! Why was the letter about them as a couple, and not for her daughter alone? Why did she gave her wedding band to Will? Can you imagine if they had broken up, and now all memories Lake had of her mother were tied to her ex? WEIRD, BAD MOM
and the fact he was HER TEACHER???? WHICH MOM WOULD LET A GROWN ASS ADULT, SPECIALLY A TEACHER, DATE HER 18 YEAR OLD DAUGHTER???????
Honestly I think Colleen Hover doesn't believe women can exist fully without a man and once they commit that's it and that's why
1:50:12 So a man's heart is validated by being loved and a woman's heart is validated by loving a man? Anyone else think it's weird that the man's heart isn't required to love anyone else's heart to be valid?
The way I involuntarily said "f-ck off" out loud at this - sorry, butterfly off
Also love that this only allows for heterosexual man and woman love, I guess if you love outside of this setup your heart will just never be full in colleen Hoovers eyes. Maybe gay people just don’t exist in her books?
@@kodakblank so what if you're bi? Are you only half-validated or is it entirely dependent on the gender you are?
I once heard someone say this, and it stuck with me ever after: '"you're so mature for your age' is not a compliment, because you're effectively praising the trauma that forced me to be too mature for my age."
In my case it was due to parentification due to an alcoholic mother. I used to take it as a positive, because I was an adult early in my life and when you're young, you always want to be older. But now that I am a legitimate adult, I feel it is a detriment because I never got to really have a childhood. The idea of the 11 year old in the story being referred to as way older than her actual age just makes me very sad for her.
The worst part about growing up too fast is that inevitably your maturity reaches a peak and you end up getting criticized for acting too childish when you're now an adult. I used to get praised for how maturely I handled my sisters and I being put in foster care, but it took me four years to finally process it all and cry. Since then it's been a genuine struggle trying to balance still feeling like a child and having to play the role of an adult woman; my inner child wants attention but I'm having to neglect her like everyone else did in her life. A lot of people fail to recognize how damaging trauma is to your psyche.
During the butterfly "poem" to the bullies all I could hear was my former bullies laughing their asses of, like I can actually hear their exact laughter, CoHo can't have any experience with being bullied if she thinks that "poem" would help, it would literally be used as fodder for more bullying.
I think there was a quote that was something like "the age of consent is 16, not so that adult can have sex with 16 year olds, but because 16 year olds want to have sex with each other"
the way they talk about kiersten in this book is horrifying. like, i was creeped on as a kid and was told it was because i looked older or i acted older, and looking back at pictures of me i was a fucking BABY. horrifying how casually she drops things like that in here.
(also "in the floor" is a southernism. my kentucky friends use it, and iirc colleen's from texas.)
Same here, it’s horrifying that so many of us have had similar experiences being sexualized as literal babies. Disgusting.
Also I’m from Texas, we say in the floor as well
As embarrassing as it is, a couple years ago I was an avid fan of Colleen Hoover. I slowly stopped reading her and then started seeing videos criticizing her. I was curious because I genuinely did not see anything wrong with her books. Looking back, it’s horrifying knowing that I wanted a relationship like the ones she wrote about. Knowing that young girls are feeling the way I did reading this book, I pray they come across your videos. They’ve helped me gain an educated perspective about abuse and how it can be easily manipulated to be seen as love. Thank you for this ❤
His "because of you" poem sounds like it's written by someone who watched the series You and thought it was a cute romance o.O
ohh god yeah. especially with showing off all the items
The threat written by the two kids and the reaction of their pseudo-parents to it makes me scared that Colleen has gotten such a call from her son's school one day after he did the same thing and that SHE went "Teehee, how cute of my son to be announcing the end of his classmate's lifespan!" and I honestly don't know how to handle that thought ...
In general, I find it baffling how unsettling she manages to write her character's reactions to certain situations while also making them as deep as a piece of cardboard. Does that count as a special talent?
To be honest, after how she has publicly handled her son being accused of sexual harassment, this doesn't surprise me but also worries me a lot too.
@@RachelOates Oh my god, the more I learn about this woman, the more concerning it gets 😭I'm trying to formulate a response, but I feel like "I hope he feels watched enough to not consider SAing someone again" (if he did) is way too optimistic...
Thank you for being brave enough to go through these for us. Hopefully, it will warn others that the weird hype about her books is not warranted!
Omg, I can’t believe the crimes against gnomekind somehow got worse. A purge of gnomes? Glorifying the brutalizing of innocent gnomes?
Someone notify The Hague to bring charges of gnomicide against Colleen Hoover.
The storyline about trying to parent the little brothers sits weird w me, bc it feels like it was included so that the main female character can show off her “maternal instincts” while also being “pure” and virginal, framing both like traits of an “ideal woman” or ideal relationship dynamic. Like she’s trying to have her cake and eat it too w her traditionalist gender-role nonsense :/
Plus, this is a case of "parenting" usually imposed on older sisters, something that we still as a society unconsciously push onto them. Colleen is one strange creature of a woman.
Wait… there's MORE THAN ONE book in that series????? One was already too many!!!! Thank you for torturing yourself so we don't have to, Rachel!!!
The book series is actually really good and nothing like the show
@SpaceandGoats I think they were talking about the series by Hoover, not PLL
Putting the grooming aside, Colleen dragging out the “will they, won’t they (shag)” on these two adults in a committed relationship is just not the plot point she thought it was. It comes across as predatory on Wills part which I did not think could be more possible
Funny story re: swear words. When I was like 5, I got a kitten. We lovingly called her "skitunge" (literally "shit kid"). When my kindergarden teacher found out, she was flabbergasted and said I shouldn't call her that. I didn't understand! We used it as a term of endearment, like "you naughty girl". Mom said to not listen to my teacher 😉😉
Swears are not our worst evil
Hey, I get that. My sister calls one of my cats "slanke fan" (skinny devil, basically) and that's also from endearment. He's not as skinny now though, he's looking great getting up to a more healthy weight than he was when I adopted him. And dad calls my other cat "skitgrisen" (shit pig) because that cat has a penchant for putting his paws in things he shouldn't and dragging it around, like soot all over freshly clean linen.
14:34 when Kiersten is talking about swear words as a social construct, it almost felt like Colleen was saying "grooming is just a social construct", and that people can see anything as a swear or as grooming, so it doesn't matter
Oh noooooo 😭
I can't stop picturing Will as the teacher from glee 😭 it's just too perfect
Both groomers and red flags. Yeah I see him too
It’s honestly wild knowing that I’m around the same age as Will. Like literally just a couple hours I was telling one of my flatmates to stop hitting on 18-19 year olds because they’re too young and immature and he got defensive because it’s only three years. If he was a teacher doing that I’d be reporting him so fucking fast but people want to argue it’s alright and I hate it
i went to college with so many men that thought this was okay, “they’re adults!” “they’re only 3 years younger” okay but they are still in high school/just graduated and having been a person at that as of recent, you should understand how vulnerable and naive you are at that age, as well as how much changes in those 3-4 years. them being “legal” doesn’t mean it’s not predatory. good on you for telling them so
It’s gross, yeah. One of my friends, Judy, accidentally kissed an 18-year-old when we were about 22 - she met him in a nightclub and thought he was older, it went no further than kissing, as soon as she found out how old he was she called it off.
And we still all called her Judephile and The Child Snatcher for ages afterwards, because the idea of her, in her third year of university (plus a gap year), having anything to do with someone who was barely out of school just felt grim in the extreme. If he’d been an actual school kid on top of his age, we’d probably have surrendered her to the police in a fucking sack
No actually being 3 years older than a 18-19 yo is completely fine wtf your flatmate SHOULD get defensive because you're really weird about it
@@lrose5522 you nasty
@@lrose5522 not really? We’ve both been living alone for 4 years with several years experience in higher education and he’s had multiple part time and full time jobs. Eighteen year olds are way less mature and experienced than someone in their twenties, which he has seen personally through his girlfriend and her friends being extremely immature and volatile. One of my other flatmates has been in many age gap dynamics herself, and she is well aware of how weird they are. The older she gets, the more and more conscious she gets that her older exes were fucking creepy for hitting on her when she was 17-20, and she absolutely refuses to flirt with anyone with teen in their age. Because she understands the disparity between their life stages.
It’s especially creepy because of how strong the social stigma against age gaps between young people is here in Britain. If he hadn’t been held back, he would have already graduated uni and his girlfriend would have barely left sixth form. Anyone here would tell you that’s a fucking creepy age gap, and it doesn’t matter that it’s over the age of consent. An eighteen year old is still a child and someone in their twenties shouldn’t be pursuing them romantically
I love Rachel's new long videos era. Honestly her shirt videos were great but her long videos are way better
i also feel that with longer videos, you have more time to get invested in the subjects and so the end result leaves a greater impact, wholeheartedly agree with you
It shouldn't have taken me as long as it did to realise what you meant by "shirt videos."
I'm a simple woman. I see Rachel uploaded a new video, I'll click on it faster than Colleen Hoover can make her new character pregnant in an abusive relationship.
When I was 18, I had a 26yo guy stopping by my work regularly to flirt and make it clear he wanted to go out. I didn’t ever feel pressured by him. He wasn’t at all aggressive or creepy. And he took it well when I said no after finding out his age. I told my mom about it but I think I didn’t share his name. Then one day, I walk into her office and the new guy at her work she’d been telling me about is THE guy. All of it was just super weird coincidence because I met him before he worked with my mom and neither of us knew she’d been talking about the same guy.
Before she knew him, she was fine with my choice not to date him. Then once she got to know him (because he seemed genuinely nice) I was totally shocked that she questioned why I wouldn’t go out with him. I think, like CH, she had been around purity culture and the misogyny of MRS degrees far too long in her life, so finding a partner was the goal in her mind. The appropriateness and life stage of the partner wasn’t relevant if they were interested. It’s how a woman I knew ended up marrying a man 16 years older than her when she was still in university and didn’t finish her degree.
I was heavily influenced by purity culture in my childhood since I grew up in the church. But I’m still proud that I let my mom know I wasn’t okay with someone 8 years older because he was in a totally different stage of life. Truthfully, I think even the guy wasn’t totally okay with it once he knew. (I was constantly clocked as being much older than I was.)
Anyway, the fact that Colleen Hoover is a Texan explains so very much.
Well, 8 years is not such an age gap. I have married late in my life and my husband is 10 years older and it is not a problem. Actually if your acquaintance that married the 16 years older guy did well or not, will be proven when she is 50. And better not to finish a degree just because of marriage than because e.g. of an sudden illness, as one of my friends did. Really, she struggled for abour 15 years to achieve some balance in her life and become self sufficent again. Due to her ilness she married very late in her life and was even then unsure if she will manage to face its demands. Given a choice granted by a fairy in her youth she would for sure prefer an early marriage than her illness. Marriage is not the worst reason not to finish a dergree, there are plenty of worse reasons in life.
@@Chociewitka 10 years if you're between your 40s and 30s is reasonable. 8 years between your 20s and a teenager isn't.
Louisianan (relevant bc purity culture is heavily engrained in the south) adoptive mother pushed for me to have kids since I was adopted at around 14/15. I explained my reasons why for years. I explained that I didn't want them because I'd be a terrible mom, I wanted a career, and I didn't like dating much. I was told I would change my mind, that despite the maternal trauma I had I'd still be a good mother anyway, et cetera. Eventually they stopped when I went out of my way to announce how happy I would be without children in my life. They took the hint and stopped pushing for it.
Skip to when I was 18 and was dating a recently-graduated 19yo boy from one of my classes (I was a year behind him). He visited my house to meet my parents as a formality, and my mom brought up the question about kids. He didn't know what my stance was so he said he wouldn't mind them (I never told him because we were literally dating for less than two weeks at that point), and once he left she immediately pointed out he'd said that and I reiterated my point. I was called selfish and told he sacrifices so much for him that I should sacrifice something for him, to just _try_ a child and if I didn't want to raise it give it to her and my dad, and secretive because I didn't think to tell my two-week-old boyfriend that I didn't want kids, a highly sensitive and serious topic reserved for when you've been dating for some time and not literally in the first month. The amount of persuasion really wrecked me. The fact she worked with foster kids and knew what happened to children whose parents didn't want them or were ill-prepared for children and still begged me to have kids so she could have grandchildren, and never once did this to my four younger brothers, was one of the main reasons I stopped talking to her as soon as I was forced to move out.
@@randompromises1038 I understand your mother. She invested a lot of resources engagement/emotion/time/effort in bringing you up and would wish the investment to have an effect on the future generations. Having kids is life task a certain percentage of people in a given population can abstain from but if a majority does it, the whole society breaks down. If there are no babies today their are no 20 years old 20 year old from now, and a society cannot survive - it will simply break down the moment most of it population is 60 or over. Children are not a caprice, they are a necessity.
@@Chociewitka just wanted to let you know that you're not actually a good person. you're a massive weirdo for thinking you know better than anyone here, telling that woman that she shouldnt question the 8 year gap between a highschooler and a university graduate and for telling that other commenter that she should absolutely have children even though she doesn't feel ready for it as if she shouldn't get a choice in the matter because it's her """duty""". incredibly gross and paedophilic behaviour.
As a child abuse victim i also do NOT find "jokingly" threatening child abuse funny giggly silly. What was the author thinking....
Great video Rachel, i just came back to your channel after some time and its just as cool as i remember if not better 😊
There are so many better ideas of "oh man we should parent this but its funny" that don't include literal calculated death threats.
For instance, my younger sister in 2nd grade had been listening to the Hamilton soundtrack nonstop because my parents had gone to see it recently. She especially loved, "you'll be back" which contains a few threatening-ish lines. Well, my little sister only remembered the line, "I will kill your friends and family to remind you of my love." She ended up singing it to one of her peers, not realizing her peer hadn't caught the fact it was a song she was singing.
Well, my mom got a call home that my sister was making "terroristic threats." Of course, my mom was appalled and asked what she said, leading her to realize my sister was singing the song. She explained the situation to the teacher, and then the student was calmed down, but my mom had to take a good ten minutes to collect herself because she was laughing at the absurdity of it-- and figuring out how to tell my sister she couldn't sing that song at school anymore.
Another example being my neighbor. Our neighborhood is small, so every friday night we'd get together growing up and have pizza while the parents drank wine. It was thus called "friday night wine." Well, one day in school my neighbor got bored and decided to write "friday night wine" on her leg... in 5th grade... in permanent marker. Needless to say, that was a fun explanation that my neighbor's mom had to make.
Those are instances where being torn between laughing hysterically and "ok but don't do this ever again" is understandable. Not sending death threats and meaning it.
As a Hamilton fan I love this
as an AMERICAN, I've had about 10 blood tests in my life and no doctor has ever told me my blood type. My parents don't know their blood types, and most of my friends don't either. The real problem for Layknn here with Will lying about her name is that now her insurance won't cover her hospital bill so she's going to be out thousands of dollars. Excited for book 3 where she will hopefully sue the shit out of this creep.
Also what in the heteronormativity, married couples don't always have the same last name. Colleen's just a weirdo (I mean we been knew)
I’m USian as well, and my family & most of my friends are aware of their blood type. I used to donated blood so I’ve known since middle school.
I found out my blood type through donating. My husband had to request a blood type test specifically and his doctor pushed back saying he didn’tneed to know. Labs don't run a blood type unless it is requested by your physician (or if your health system allows you to ask and pay out of pocket, Canada doesn't). It's a special test collected in its own tube and tested in its own department. We can't run a blood type off of a tube collected for electrolytes, for example.
When I asked someone who was taking my blood what my blood type was they wouldn’t tell me, the only reason ik what it is is cuz I got an at home test on Amazon and did it
Yeah I have no clue what mine is either and neither do any of my family members so I can’t even guess it. I think for emergency surgery they just give everyone O+ because its universal and they don’t want to waste time typing
I live for Rachel's: "Rude! Well at least that gnome isn't a groomer." Lolled so hard at that.
1:31:15 hard relate! My ex husband confessed to having 7 affairs over the first 5 years of our relationship, the week after our wedding which was a year after the last instance of him cheating!!!!! I only knew of 1 time and i should have left him then. I struggled so much trying to trust him again and i took 3 years of marriage and personal therapy to realize i wasnt happy and see all the abuse in that relationship.
We also opened to poly right before the cheating came out, we took a break for a year, and when i started to date after the break during therapy i started to see i was also desirable outside of what he was telling me. Therapy plus the 2 healthy relationships i had really built up my confidence and i asked for a divorce one the 3rd year of therapy. Here i am a year and a half later and i am in a really great relationship that has been so healing for me, i am an entirely different person.
Wait, let me get this straight. You were heartbroken when you found out your husband has been having affair since the time of your wedding (understandably so), so it took being Poly to realize that you actually need to leave? You can’t make this stuff up.
@Mro637 life is crazy, therapy helped me gain confidence and heal, but poly helped me see there are better people out there that will put effort into a relationship. It was a combination of things that helped me grow.
@@Nstachow Well, that’s super weird and not healthy at all lol. Are you sure it was poly or you cheated as well? Again, you can’t make this stuff up.
Will is giving me Onision vibes. Sorry for bringing him up. It's like they have an issue with being called a groomer, when they are literally are grooming and abusing young girls and don't care. Thanks for the great content Rachel
THANK YOU! Oh my goodness. I was getting so wigged out by the similarities I was seeing between Colleen Hoover's male love interest characters and Onision self-inserts.
YES. Colleen's obsession with virginity and putting fetuses into wombs feels like onion man's self- inserts being happy whenever they were 'the first man with a woman' and how they fantasized about impregnating them.
Rachel all through this video:
*insert Michael Jordan Stop It meme*
The german translation of the titles is: 1. Because I love Layken, 2. Because I love Will and 3. Because we love us. Insinuating that everything that happens in the books is because they love each other. I find that so sick
Wieso haben wir immer Buch-/ Filmtitel, die komplett anders als das Original sind😭😭
11:53 I'd like to think that Will only hangs out with his ex-students because his adult friendships went down the toilet when they en-masse reported him for grooming (it would not be strange for the police to fail to do something about it, sigh), but I suspect that this is his norm.
54:18 "After Will is like, 'I'm counting down the days until I can stick my penis in you, Layken' -- I may be paraphrasing...."
But that would probably still manage to place in the top 10 most poetic things that Will has said in these books.
58:09 The shift from young adult to erotica is particularly weird when it's about, like, romanticizing grooming.
I thought, too generously, that maybe this was a case of there being enough time between their publishing that the original readers would now be adults (which would still be a little odd since the first book would still exist for current young adults), but no, they were in fact both published on the same year.
1:04:09 "Twenty-two hours and our *war* begins"
At least he's talking about his sex life in front of a bunch of minors in metaphor rather than explicitly.
"Our war of *limbs* and *lips* and *hands*...."
Never mind, I'm pretty sure even the 11-year-olds can figure out what he's doing here.
1:12:49 At this point, I wonder if this book was written from Will's point of view because there is no way to believe the author's intended narrative that Will was being foolish rather than duplicitous. It's barely believable when we are given his exact thoughts.
AS I WROTE THIS YOU GOT TO 1:17:25 WHERE HE LITERALLY IS BEING DUPLICITOUS ABOUT HER DEAD MOM'S GIFT I'm starting to think he's an unreliable narrator who is actually deliberately doing what even Colleen Hoover would recognize as cheating and his thought process we've written here is just the story he wants to spin for Layken.
1:22:14 You talk about how these problems were artificially created by the characters not communicating like adults, and I realize to my horror that I'm only halfway through the video. My gosh, this is a terrifying realization. Your videos are great but this book is awful.
1:27:01 In Layken's case, she also expresses her feelings as "have sex with me because you had sex with her" because she is, in fact, still basically a child. Like by age she has hit the age of majority in many countries, but she has just barely left high school.
The stuff you said comparing to your own experiences *did* make sense and it was useful in running through these unhealthy but natural behaviours. Most adults need a therapist to try to process this in a healthy way because we aren't taught this stuff properly. But also in this case she's still a teenager!
1:46:30 My "Will is actually fully aware of his abusiveness and he's being an unreliable narrator to hide it" theory gains more legs with breaking her car to force her to ride with him and then casually thinking about how to manipulate her into breaking her boundaries. Yuck.
1:58:47 Honestly, I, too, would be putting my hand over my mouth to gasp in shock and start crying in Layken's shoes, because I would be realizing that oh my god, I was going out with a stalker who has been collecting things to build a shrine to me or something, I'm going to get murdered in my bed tonight.
2:14:04 Thank you for not going through with your threat in pitching either your tablet or yourself off the train. I know it must have been tempting at the time.
2:15:38 I struggle to remember even my own medical information and probably couldn't manage much for my own family (though I think I know where to find most of the information around their houses), but I also couldn't produce anything I've stolen from their closets and garbage, either.
2:17:15 I hope I'm not as good at predicting Colleen Hoover as you are, because I had the sudden sinking feeling that Eddie's kid is a girl because she wants her main characters to have a boy in the way that some people think boys are better to have, and then they're going to talk about these infants maybe one day marrying each other and having their own babies to link the group together by bloodline. This is my current theory for what the third book (why does it exist) will end with.
2:17:40 "not like sex sleep, just sleep next to her."
It's such a sad commentary on these books that this is actually a necessary clarification.
2:27:58 I will give Colleen Hoover this: her poem ability is a lot more appropriate for a couple of 11 year olds, especially with their nearest example of a poet being so terrible.
You have more than earned your break before going into the third. Please, take all the time you need to recover. I think we all need a break from this series haha. Thanks for the hard work and great video.
This is so unrelated, and SO SORRY for girlcrushing here but, I love how beautiful your hair is every. single. time you show up! And your makeup is so amazing, and awhhhh 😭 I usually put on any analysis/review videos just for background noise sake, but with you and Alizee I cannot not look and think how stunning you guys are!
The fact that Hoover used to be a social worker is incredibly concerning. The fact that people are actually reading this trash (TH-camrs doing it for a video being excluded) and can actually say something positive about it boggles my mind.
And the fact people defend Hoover with their life scare me
“Oh but she’s 18, so not grooming”
Yall not being able to see the problem, gross me out 💀😭😭
@@OrangeCat_Roo that’s right. Probably the same kind of people who say men don’t get SA’ed 🤬 it’s sickening
This man isn't just so many red flags that he could be mistaken for the Red Sea but he's straight up a horror movie villain.
Colleen really just needs to start writing horror instead of romance.
I think it might be helpful to have the cultural context of the rural/Midwest USA here- it’s extremely common and somewhat socially expected to be married in your early twenties, and it’s still very religious and conservative so part of that is because young adults are not okay with the social consequences of having premarital sex, which would be a factor between our two leads here. Definitely worth casting a critical lens at but it does unfortunately make sense in their setting!
Also, just for your own enrichment, we don’t have a national system for medical history, it’s so decentral that you have to go individually to each clinic/provider to collate your own records if you want a complete history
CoHo writing an abusive male lead that gets caught cheating on his girlfriend with his ex who he didn't establish boundaries with because he's shit, attempting to win back his girlfriend (without ever explaining himself or apologizing) who's trust he's shattered: This is just sooooo romantic, this man has done nothing wrong ever
CoHo writing an abused female character reacting how she should to a shitty man: believe it or not, jail* (*read: trapped in a room)
What's the first book?
Are you describing It Ends with Us?
Colleen Hoover’s idea of “edgy” is almost cute.
I recently finished the remake of Persona 3 that came out last week. Now there’s a genuinely dark story about death that *earns* its thematic edginess.
Fuck I love p3, haven't played the remake yet tho. P3 is probably one of the best examples of an "edgy" story that doesn't come across as ridiculous or corny.
@@leryco4803I’m on my second playthrough, and I can’t recommend it enough! And while it won’t be out till September, Altus is working on the DLC, Episode Aigis: The Answer! ^^
@@EliseArainai i REALLY hope they release femc as well
“I could care less.”
“You mean, ‘couldn’t care less,’ right?”
“No I meant I could care less. I just wouldn’t.”
Yes! I hate it when people correct this turn of phrase. “I could care less” is a much more powerful statement. It’s saying that you care so little that you can’t even be bothered to rank it on a scale of not caring.
Kind of like how calling someone or something “mid” is more insulting than calling it bad or ugly.
"I hate these word crimes
Like 'I could care less'
That means you do care
At least a little
Don't be a moron (Hey, hey)."
For some reason every time you say "Vaughn", I hear "Vorn." Which isn't really any worse of a name.
I keep hearing her name as “Vore”
Help
What is with these names?
Colleen keeps naming people after places - Vaughan is just north of Toronto
@@warlordofbritanniait’s this one now
I've known Vaughan to be a name, but the only people I've met with it are old men. So... that's a choice
re: Giving the wrong name at the hospital -- the US system is in no way put together enough for it to matter beyond the inevitable debt collection. I have gone to the ER in the same building as my primary doctor and as far as their records are concerned I'm three different people. If you have allergies and don't have one of those medical warning bracelets, godspeed to you, unless someone is there who knows your history. I've gone to the same ER with my mother for the first 20 years of my life and we were both different people every time, again, despite our doctors being in the same system. Give 'em whatever name you want if you don't have insurance, be ungovernable etc etc etc
1:56:40 Please save room in that corner for me. “Because of You” is such an impactful song for me, as I’m sure it is for you and so many others, to the point I couldn’t listen to it for years without sobbing. Put some respect on Kelly Clarkson’s name, CoHo.
TWO OF MY FAVORITE THINGS, PRETTY LITTLE LIARS AND COLEEN HOOVER HATE? SIGN ME UP
ALSO to add: Having had brain surgery myself (for a cogenital condition called Chiari Malformation), I can GUARANTEE you that sitting on my bed or touching my hand would result in me screaming. It's INCREDIBLY painful and you feel every jostle when it's your head. The nurses handled me with such care that when I was forced to sit up, the shock from the pain was so intense that I passed out. Something tells me Colleen doesn't do a lot of research and just wants to wring emotion without doing any of the work.
when you said that you imagined Will as Paul it fucking killed me 😭
Fun fact #1 The German word for poem comes from “compacting” because it’s supposed to be a way to say something in a compacted way chock-full of all these stylistic devices.
Fun fact #2 The coho word for poem comes from “diluting” because she says even less in them than in her normal prose
Yeah, if someone tries to come onto us or one of our exes contacts us, my husband and I tell each other and laugh about it. It can be a bit awkward at first, but we didn't do anything wrong and we don't have anything to hide. Transparency and honesty is the best!
At the hospital I work at (in the US) they won’t register your name without proper identification, like a driver’s license, if you can’t identify yourself. And if your name is different than your last visit they still require a new form of identification to change it in the system, otherwise they keep your old name based on your medical record number. If you’re unconscious or otherwise incapacitated, your name goes in as a “doe” or “trauma” depending on the situation until we figure it out. That being said, she was driving so she clearly had a license and he could have easily just grabbed her wallet.. but that would’ve made too much sense.
Listening to this review, I think one of the big issues with Colleen Hoover's books (aside from the obvious... everything) is that although the books are always about relationships, none of the characters ever feel like they actually have relationships with each other. Like none of them ever have normal conversations or do things together to get to know one another better, and they don't know basic information about each other, like these two have been dating a year and he doesn't even know if she has any allergies. He doesn't even know anything about his own brother. These characters clearly don't exist when they're not on the page and it makes them so uninteresting to read about when their entire lives exist for the plot of the book and nothing else. Like, content of her books aside, it's just poor writing on a technical level.
Screaming crying throwing up passing out etc with excitement that you posted such a long video on my cleaning day 😩 I was not looking forward to it at all and was considering just laying in bed all day instead, but having your video there to keep me company and entertained while I clean turned my day around!!! ❤
I'm starting to feel morally obligated to at least attempt writing romance for straight women because damn they deserve better than this
Substituting mundane terms for cursing is actually a pretty good way to make sure you don’t accidentally drop the f-word in polite conversation. Plus, telling someone to go fluff themselves just sounds hilarious.
I have no idea what butterfly could cover though. That whole bit is just “im14andthisisdeep” cringe
Thats yiffin forkin right.
If you bust out the hecking and the forking and the butterflying in polite conversation with me, I leave with a worse opinion on you than if you had just said fucking. We all know you thought it, why the fuck would you make such a big deal out of it? This is American puritanism at work
I'm getting mathematically formulating sinusoidal of these mathematically formulated superpositions on this mathematically formulated polynomial!
My fave coffee mug had a cat flipping a bird and said, “fluff you you fluffin’ fluff” - I miss it so much since I broke it.
2:01:24 imagine being at a poetry event and seeing this shit go down 😂
If I didn't know any better, I would think this book is about Onision's life.
I almost forgot about that dude 😭
The only thing good Matt did this whole book that was out of character was opting out of the public proposal as another form of manipulation.
Perspectives of Death and Dying was my favorite college course. It changed my life. Don't knock it til ya try it (the class, not dying).
Omg you should try this eyeshadow look with blue and green, i think with your hair and eyes it would make you look so mermaidy 😍
2:15:24 To be fair, hospitals never take your word for it when it comes to your blood type. I work in a hospital laboratory in America, but I'm sure it's done much the same globally. The hospital is going to test and determine your blood type at least twice before they give you anything (except in some emergency situations), and even then they'll reconfirm your blood type every few days. This is for multiple reasons, but mostly so that 1) sample mix-ups don't lead to patients getting typed incorrectly, and 2) while your blood type won't change, your body may develop antibodies that can make some donor blood incompatible (red blood cells actually have a lot more antigens on them than just the ones that make up the ABO Rh blood type). On top of that, they'll confirm the compatibility of every single blood product they give you. Blood bank doesn't mess around 🤣 So they don't need you to tell them her blood type, but having access to her medical history is definitely a must.
For my degree, I actually have to take a class called the science of death and dying. It's a really fascinating class, and goes over the psychology and physiology of natural death, and the grieving process. The goal is to eventually become an LCSW, and learning about grief and how to help people reconcile with their own mortality is pretty important.
I am not even kidding when I say I had a nightmare that I was giving out Colleen Hoover books from the trunk of my car 💀 another invisible me was yelling at the me handing out books. I couldn't control my body and everyone was looking at and judging me for “liking” the books. It was so dramatic
Edit: an ad started in the middle of you reading Will’s poem about sex and I audibly sighed in relief…
48:53 I’m reminded of this conversation I overheard where a newlywed was talking about his wife’s children disrespecting him. (They were all grown children.). His friends advised him to give her a black eye or smack her around in front of the kids so they know he won’t hesitate to put her in her place. This fake fight being hysterical to them reminds me of that casual approach to abuse.
love the butterfly earrings 🩷🩷
I'm 50 minutes in and that poem gives me I'm 14 and this is deep vibes.
yay another longer video!! I always love listening to these while painting :) scared of whatever it is colleen wrote this time though 😭
excited for the video rachel!!
This legit reminded me of when I was bedridden after being hit my a car - I got a message from some random guy on facebook like “oh man, I just saw the news article about you! Are you okay?” And then right after my response he sends:
“Are you still pretty?”
HWAT
There’s nothing I’d rather have playing than Rachel roasting Coleen Hoover while I clean my house. Honestly her name sounds like a character she wrote
4:11 I appreciate that you bring this up, because it throws me off every time I read a multi perspective book especially. I get confused and don't know who I'm reading and I don't follow the story as well and have to pause the audiobook and puzzle it out sometimes because of authors who write both perspectives in the same type of way.
Really silly nitpick, but the most annoying thing (for me) about the Point of Retreat poem is the line "I'd say the score is none to none" when the wordplay of "love all" a la tennis was Right There
Woohoo new video!!!!!
kyra's snores are making this book bearable hahaha. we love you, kyra!
Okay I’m absolutely in love with your videos and your style of snark. You are amazing! 100% a subscriber now and fully on board! So glad I found you from Fundie Fridays
As an american, they wouldnt know any of that information even if he put down her real name. America doesnt have a central medical database so every time we see a doctor besides our primary care, we have to give them all our medical history and medications. Every time. If you’re unconscious they just treat you best they can and hopefully you have medical jewelry for any life threatening allergies
Always love your insightful vids, Rachel. Thanks for being awesome!
I'm 24, every 11 year old looks like a lil kid, this dude needs to go to jail
13:00 Reminds me of Bryony Claire's video about girls having to grow up faster
The ironic part of Coleen Hoover having a book called Point of Retreat is the fact that the point of retreat is opening the book.
When I heard the synopsis of the first book I thought that Coleen Hoover had finally written some sort of psychological thriller, not a romance
If someone makes these type of comments about an 11 year old girl. I would call the cops
When I heard the 11-year-old was going to read "butterfly me" I was worried it would be something else... for once I was relieved.
Just started the video but i need to say: the makeup in the beginning?! STUNNING
okay now ill get on with the video
Off topic but the entire 2.5hr video I couldn’t help but smile at the little collection of Chuck Palahniuk on ur shelf 😊 he’s my fave and you got a great selection there.
theres a course at my uni called death and dying and its like an anthropology/sociology/relgion course that examines the different views cultures have on death but hearing that colleen wrote the same course name into her book makes me shudder
50:55 I can’t help laughing at “did you mean a glazier?”
Ikr?? I literally just got to that part of the vid it’s so funny
Reads with Rachel just did a video about her first encounter with Coho-she was not ready for how horrible the prose, plots, characterizations, "romance" and basically everything about these books were.
“Turns out that all this time, I was trying to change something about myself, and all I needed to do was just date an actual decent human being…”
I felt this. So completely. And thank you for saying it better than I ever could.
One of these days, these videos will devolve into Rachel with a megaphone saying, "Colleen, back away from the keyboard, for the love of all that is holy."
Colleen needs a lesson on adding conflict and tension without making a relationship toxic and inappropriate. There are so many ways to create conflict without…this.
WHY wouldn't he just want to tell Laykin about his life??? I can't wait to tell my partner literally everything. If an ex walked into a room, my phone would be out in seconds so I could share the drama, gossip and whatever I'm feeling. It's so weird. Like not only is it bizarre to keep secrets but to not want to share your life with your partner
It’s Colleen’s horrible way of keeping the plot going, because if they had just told each other about their lives, the book would’ve just ended there.
You know, I need to thank Colleen for ONE poem. The balloon poem. Why? Because it actually gave me inspiration to work on my uni poem project to describe mundane things as symbols of abusive relationships(so in this context, the balloon was representative of a controlling relationship) - it was one of the highest marks I ever got so thanks Colleen!! You were so bad that someone who ahted poems for majority of their life decided to rewrite your idea and atually improve on it!
I work in a high school library.
In an ideal world, I would be able to follow public library principles and provide all patrons with any book they desired. Alas, a school library has to justify its catalog as being in support of the curriculum, which necessitates “age appropriateness.”
The amount of teenagers who ask me for Colleen Hoover books is astounding to me. I feel like kids comprehend that a school library has school-appropriate books, which makes me think they don’t understand that more or less all Hoover books are not that. And I do see how. They are aggressively marketed these books on social media.
I am not one to enforce any kind of restrictions on reading. However, if there are going to be audience age group classifications put forth by publishers, I think they should comprehend their own rules. The biggest infringement of “appropriateness” in American schools is not violence, LGBT content, or race related content (obviously)-it’s actually publishers pushing “new adult” books on the young adult market via marketing, using this separate genre to stomp on the guidelines THEY have outlined for young adult over the years. (Best example: our system obliviously stocked ACOTAR, assuming it was the same age level as Throne of Glass because it was marketed as being for the same readers.)
We DO NOT want to have to remove books once we have stocked them. We would like to have the attitude that you will pry any book on our shelves from our cold dead hands. But it’s difficult when the due diligence that has been good enough for decades is now letting through a lot of smut (and I have no problem with smut outside this context! It’s just not what we are seeking out) due to irresponsible marketing and categorizing. Especially in this time when conservatives are trying to remove important LGBT narratives from our libraries for being inappropriate for depicting age appropriate, non-sexualized and non-eroticized discussions and depictions of sex, it’s very annoying.
I’m not saying these books (and the expanding, similar catalog) should not exist. I just wish they would stop specifically targeting teenage girls. I do think teens should have access if they seek them out! But I don’t like how the books seek out the teens with the way they are presented (not to even touch on how the writing and characterization is at a YA level, but just with smut added and irresponsible depictions of relationships).
I’m such a slow reader that I don’t have enough time to read even the books I want to read, so how Rachel finds the time to read multiple garbage books a month on top of her usual stuff astounds me.
Oh myyy. Rachel gets very emphatic about giving the right name, but if the hospital does not have your records, you have to verbally tell them all your allergies, conditions, medications, etc. There is no national database for patient medical history in the US.
It took me almost a year after I had gotten out of a situation to realise that I had been verbally abused, manipulated, gaslighted and threatened by my exes brother when we let him live with us for a time. I never considered that trapping/blocking someone actually qualified as physical abuse until today, like when he would block me from coming back into the flat when I'd walk away from him to go and stand on the balcony because I was tired of fighting with him. I guess now I get why I had such a strong reaction when he wouldn't let me back into my flat and was standing in the door yelling at me. I pushed him, and he tried to spin it like I was the one being physically abusive. I think people have different definitions of abuse, and sometimes the very black and white definitions cause people to entirely miss that what they experienced actually isn't acceptable and is damaging. Even after the blocking situations, I still believed this person was my friend, and as close as a brother, just like Layken apologises to Will and is perfectly happy to restart their relationship after he does countless unacceptable things to her.
So.... my husband blocks people and is completely unaware that he does it (in the moment). Basically, he wants to give a hug or whatever and just steps into a position to do so, without realizing that it's trapping the person he wants to show affection to. It took me years to realize why I didn't like it, but once I figured it out I talked to him about it. Completely oblivious. We've been working on him adding the verbal component (Hey can I have a hug? or Hugs?) and it's been a game changer. I also ask what's up when he does to prompt when he forgets. He's improving, but it was honestly just a blind spot for him rather than an abuse tactic.
Think I need to clarify. If someone is doing this and you identify that it is a problem (for yourself) and you tell them that it is a problem for you, and THEY DO NOT CHANGE OR ATTEMPT TO CHANGE THE BEHAVIOR, that is abusive. A healthy relationship will work on things that cause problems. Some people are completely unaware of how their behavior affects others and would change if they knew.
@@hedgers2005 Fair enough, in your husband's case that clearly wasn't abuse, and it's great that he changed the way he did things. I know I've also been abusive to partners without realising, by being overly snarky and not realising it was actually hurtful and not taken jokingly. I wish I had known earlier, because it did contribute towards a relationship ending, and the partner never communicated about it before. However, there are people (like the person I mentioned in my comment) who would never admit to being in the wrong, and would turn it around on the victim. For example, following someone when they try to leave your company, and blocking them while yelling at them doesn't seem as innocent as someone who just wanted a hug.