Debating what the BEST Planetarium Items are in Isaac
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 ก.ย. 2024
- This is a tier list debating the absolute BEST Planetarium Items are in The Binding of Isaac Repentance. This is NOT a list based on fun, but rather what items are the most useful between all kinds of runs. Hope you all enjoy!
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Also Check out Turtier who debated the list with me -
Turtier - / turtier
I think Mercurius has the benefit of allowing you to minmax active item charges a bit. You're not gonna waste charges by completing rooms with an already fully charged active, because you can skip the rooms and come back to them when you actually need charges
Good point! I could actually see it going above venus but not much higher
sol is trash and I stand by this, bottom of aight at best, the most useful thing about is the maping, because in lower chapters you would not be using it since when you get to the boss you are almost done with the floor, and in further chapters is even more useless since you would not backtrack, since there is almost nothing of interest other than sacrifice rooms and maybe curse rooms, i preffer even marss in some situations, since you can have sinergies based one the invincible dash.
other than that, good list honestly
Holy shit nearly a full hour nerding over a twelve-item-long item pool is AMAZING. It's one of the most unique item pools in the game, too, so this oughta be fire
Mars is awful on keyboard as well. It does not activate randomly like controller, but you still randomly activate it on accident when dodging stuff. I think if you plan on fighting hush, mother, mega satan, or delirium, you literally can't take it.
I once died because I accidentally dashed into a devil deal in dark room, killing me because I couldn't afford it. I will never take Mars again after that, unless I have a self-reroll.
I play on keyboard and I never use mars dash on accident. It’s just a difference in gameplay whether u dash on accident or not.
Yeah I was trying to make this point in the vid, some players don't have issue on keyboard, and some do, and I don't think it has anything to do with skill at the game, but rather it has to do with how you learnt to play the game. Before mars existed, it wouldn't matter whether someone was doing accidental double inputs, because there was no such thing. Suddenly mars is added, and now only the players who did double inputs when they move get punished. It's only one, rare item, added in the final dlc, so player movement habits are already muscle memory before they ever get to use the item. If the item control scheme actively works against muscle memory in a way that players can't really fix, then it's probably a bad control scheme.
I once lost a run with Mars because I accidentally charged into a devil deal in dark room that I didn't have the health for. Never taking that ever again. I was actually playing keyboard on that run as well.
Sol is also super underrated. It allows you to see blind items or see your health on a floor with those curses, and the health and active refill is great for min maxing as well. Sure you can't really use it for the boss itself, but the effects can give you so much value on the floor. I understand why someone may rank it low, the competition is so tough with this list. I'm honestly happy to see anything that isn't Jupiter, Venus, or Mars though
It gets rid of curse of no eyes!!!
Noooooooooooo, that is so unfortunate lmao. It got the correct spot i suppose
If terra isnt insane we gonna have problems (im extremely biased)
Terra is fantastic for sure. It's sulfuric acid (which is already a very good item) on steroids.
Terra is rly good, Neptunus is just way to cracked to be overtaken
omfg. how the FUCK do yall have only 700 subs? thats ridiculous! both of yall have easily become one of my favorite youtubers and i have been binge watching all of yalls tier list videos and they are so beyond entertaining and I am so seriously in love. you deserve WAY more attention for this outstanding quality content that you two goobers pump out for fellow nerds like me to enjoy! the charisma between you two is bonkers and what both of you each separately bring to the table makes these videos PERFECT. keep doing what yall do bc holy shit are you good at it!
Thank you! It's always nice to see that people think we make a good duo, especially since we weren't actually friends before we started making the lists (the secret room list was the first time we talked in vc lol). I was interested in list content like this for a while and things kind of just worked out! Honestly at this point I am a little surprised that we still only have 700 subs, I thought it would be at least 1000 by now, but we've got consistent viewers and comments and that's more than I expected to get when we started, so that's pretty cool. We've had a bit of trouble getting time to record recently but we managed to record 2 lists yesterday so those should be coming out in the following weeks.
@@turtier Omg thank you so much for sharing! Yeah ya’ll make an amazing duo and im addicted to these videos lol. I would bet my life savings that ya’ll will start to get more attention, subs, and views on these videos bc nerds like us seriously find this stuff so entertaining lmao. Both of you take all the time you need to get these videos out man, if ya’ll dont got the time then ya’ll dont got the time, we can wait :3 stay safe and stay happy ;3
I would put Uranus in insane tier and switched Venus with Mars, but it's a good list overall.
Damn, I just learned I never utilized Neptunus to its full potential. Thanks for that, it's gonna be quite a gamechanger
You guys should rank item pools as a whole, like treasure room vs golden chest vs devil deal vs secret room, you get the gist
Id be down! I do actually wonder if this list would be better to include rarity/consistency since everyone basically already knows which pools are at the top when just considering the items themselves
@@latermanner Yeah I would say so! Like the boss pool may be ass compared to like angel, but it's a pretty good and consistent source of getting base stats into your runs
@@gumbarius That's what I was thinking too, and Angel might not be Guaranteed S tier since you can't get it Until floor 3 most of the time
cant wait for you guys to cover every item pool and then make a 29 hour long compilation video
Before watching. Mars better be in trash as randomly dashing around ruins any run.
I really disagree on Luna. I think it is top 3, behind Terra.
The fact that it spawns so many secret rooms means finding them is incredibly easy. On any floor before womb, there are so many secret rooms that it is common for almost every valid spot to have one. That makes it so bombs are much less of a concern because you won't be wasting bombs on incorrect guesses nearly ever.
The soul heart generation is actually crazy, I am surprised you guys barely mentioned it. Two free soul hearts per floor is better than book of rev a lot of the time.
The tears up is also, assuming you are at max tear rate already, at least a 50% dps increase. Going from 5 to 7.5.
This isn't even mentioning how powerful getting double the number of secret rooms is by itself.
I can see this take, I do honestly feel really powerful with Luna, I do think it's worth considering that Beast and Hush it has no effect for. I can see it above Uranus but even then it's veeeeery close.
Agreed i feel like luna is kind of a run winner early game and late game the extra 2 secret rooms is just too prominent
I'd definitely put it above Uranus, which while fine is in my opinion a sorta overrated item. I just don't fully understand why I would want to maneuver over to a statue to knock it into a wall hoping that it hits something on the way... Why not just kill the enemies regularly?? If it just made enemies burst into the icicles instantly upon death, it would be way better (but I still suspect noticeably weaker than Athame). Luna may not work equally well in all scenarios, but you can arguably say the same thing about some S-tier items. Generally speaking, Luna is really nice.
22:42 I hate Mars so much because of how it's triggered and it makes me real sad, because the dash effect is actually REALLY good and versatile. If its activation was tied to an actual button instead of a double tap input, it'd jump from one of the worst Planetarium items to one of the better. And it sometimes feels like it was done that way by design, being purposely broken.
The button prompt for it being double tap is almost certainly because they needed a way for it to have controller support. Keyboard has plenty of alternate buttons to use, but controller doesn't. The only thing that I think might work for mars is using the ctrl button for it. The forgotten switching forms also uses that button, so it would need to be done in a way that doesn't conflict with anything, but it's the only button I can think of, unless you added double tap functionality to the active item button or something.
Speaking of active items, that's definitely what mars should have been. It can't be a pocket active, kilburn has said that pocket actives should always be exclusive to tainted characters. But book of virtues already exists as an item that is a passive that acts like an active item. Could maybe do something similar with mars, it's a passive item, but it adds mars as a second active item (it doesn't take up an active slot, you can cycle between your actual active item and mars, as if you had schoolbag). Something like this would definitely work.
Making it an active would be really weird in the sense it'd be the only active from the Planetarium pool. But it'd definitely make it an item I'd often consider, it'd essentially be a faster, more contact-iterative Dark Arts then, and I consider Dark Arts very respectable.
@@luizflavioassismoura6136 It's not really that weird. There's already a similar example in the game, book of virtues is the only passive item in the library pool. I also think there's a big difference between something being an active item VS something like book of virtues which is a passive/active hybrid. Because normally active items compete with other active items, but this wouldn't be the case with mars since it's a passive/active hybrid that uses its own active item slot independent from the main one. Mars is also already quite different from the other planetarium items, and from most items in the game, as it's only 1 of 2 items that activate on double tap (divine intervention is the other, this item isn't great either, but only because it's a little underwhelming, the control scheme for it is perfectly fine, mostly because the shield is nice and... you know... doesn't send you flying across the screen).
@@turtier If they made Mars a Book of Virtues passive disguising as an active, it'd be super good, though in practice it'd involve swapping between actives like a sort of built-in Backpack. It'd still be leagues above what it is now and I'd be all for it. Heck, I'd vastly prefer it even if it was a pure active anyway, it's just too unwieldy in its current state.
20:30 this happens on keyboard too
I’ve watching all your tier lists and I just caught up to them. Insanely fun to watch. But I have to say I’m not happy where you placed mars I’m controller user too and I understand that it can lead to many mistakes so many people skip it but I didn’t skip it a single time and everytime I got better at using it and when you do get good at using it provides you with huge value. Many times do I get in sticky situations and mars just acts as a get out of jail free card. It good for room clearing and obliterating segmented bosses. Also gives you free curse rooms. The item deserves at least mid-low nice tier
You can get better at manually activating it, but you can never turn off the random dashes on controller. The control stick simply registers double inputs for no reason, fairly frequently. It's also one of those things that I assume would be different based on many factors outside of the game itself, such as the type of controller you are using and how old it is. Both me and Manner found the random curve dashes random and unpreventable to the point where we found it better to change the control scheme. Manner started to play entirely with the dpad on mars runs, and I found it better to just play on keyboard with mars. I'm obviously worse on keyboard, but not significantly worse, and I randomly activate mars on keyboard far less. Sometimes I only use it for curse rooms and forget to use it in enemy rooms, but I have had a few runs where I did use it in enemy rooms and it worked well, and I will acknowledge that I could definitely get better with the item on keyboard. I was also unsure if trash could be justified for that reason.
However, even many keyboard players have consistent random activation problems. I don't think random activation on keyboard has anything to do with skill, instead I think this is based on muscle memory. Every player will press the keys a little differently when they are learning to play, and there was no indication that they were double tapping keys, nor was there any reason that double tapping keys was a bad thing. Not until mars, which only exists in the final dlc. If you played the game before repentance, then mars suddenly punishes some players for muscle memory that they have formed over years, when that muscle memory was perfectly fine before. Even if you started the game with repentance, mars is the only item in the game that activates on double tap movement, and it only exists in the rarest item pool, so new players will still form muscle memory independent of mars, which might randomly get them punished if they apparently double tap keys a lot.
Again, I don't consider any of this to be skill based. An item like isaacs heart, I would actually plan on practicing with before ranking it, because theres a chance it's not F tier like everyone thinks (maybe its like, C tier or something, or maybe it is F, idk, that's why I plan to practice with it to see if its still just worse than having no items). But I'm fine doing that with isaacs heart because isaacs heart is the same for everyone. If I can get better with it, and I then say "it's actually not as bad as you think, try picking it up and getting better with it", then that's valid because every player can eventually get better with it. But with mars, it's basically the same as if cursed eye's downside was coded to be different on every save file. Maybe for some players it teleports them, for some it instantly kills them, for some they just take an extra heart, and for some players it does nothing. For the players with a minor downside, it would be a good item, but on a list, I'd probably either rank it F for the potential very bad downsides, or I just wouldn't rank it at all, with the note that it depends what effect you got. This is basically mars, depending on your control scheme and muscle memory, it will randomly activate to varying degrees, not in a way that I think practice can fix. Therefore it has to be F or unranked. It doesn't matter if a player gets better at using the dash manually, any item that says "randomly move in a random direction" as a passive effect is a bad item, or at least it's a lot worse than it would otherwise be (arguably some S tier items like rock bottom could have that effect and they would still be good... except on the lost and tainted lost... still untakeable on those characters lol).
Before watching I skipped to the end to make sure Neptunus is at the top, thank god.
Personal tier list + rankings, kind of yapping but yk
INSANE
Terra - Early game, probably one of the best items you can find. Free secret rooms, free tinted rocks, free damage, only downside is if you have flight you're destroying your cover, but early game you probably don't have it. Its also just good mid and late game, if not for anything than for the damage. Never unhappy to see it
Pluto - Amazing tears up and a way smaller hitbox, generally great
Luna - Guarantees one secret room per floor, even Void, which you wouldnt find without it, and allows +2.5 tears up. Especially big with rock bottom, and with your extra secret rooms, youre more likely to find it
Nice
Saturnus - I personally love this item, it allows you to do what Mars or Venus are sort of meant to be by rushing into enemies for those tears to hit, while also protecting you from something like a stray gaper or globlin coming up and smacking you during your TLost run
Sol - Basically free sacrifice rooms early game if you're a red heart character - it's like maggy's full health pill. The minmax of it is amazing if you know how to use it, but requires a blessing from the isaac gods to get sol, then a sacrifice room, then remembering what you were doing. Lower than Saturnus because it requires luck and isn't very useful later on
Uranus - Solid early game item for the freezing, but im not the biggest fan of slow that isnt applying to everything because it throws off some enemies
Aight
Mercurius - Actually one of my favorite items in isaac, its really unique and i love being able to skip through rooms and floors i dont need to be in (esp like womb) but its generally not the most useful, sadly
Neptunus - I never seem to get any use out of this item, though its alright when something does happen. Never really notice i have it though, weirdly enough
Venus - Basically just 2Spooky but is very lacking when compared to other planetarium items. Does basically disable contact damage enemies though, which is cool, though its basically obsolete by the time you get a planetarium
TRASH
Mars - People joke about it ruining their runs but when I was a tiny little isaac player who just unlocked planetariums found the item and picked it up because, yknow, it was interesting, and while i saw people complain, i thought it wasnt as bad. i proceeded to try to use it offensively and take damage a few times, causing me to be on half a heart for a while, where i stopped using mars, until i accidentally double tapped a movement key and went right into an enemy right at the end of my charge and lost an actually pretty solid run. RIP tiny me
Jupiter - lower than mars purely because i hate this stupid fucking item, it follows me to other games, im just trying to play ancient dungeon vr with an isaac item mod installed and this fucker gets randomly applied to me at the end of a floor and i want to stab someone because now i move at 2 miles per year and the heart containers it gives arent even filled and i cant even stand still to get the items "upsides" because thats not how that game works oh my gOD
I will forever defend Jupiter because those two hearts saved my Eden-Mega Satan run, and my Cain-Mother run.
did you not see how to abuse nepunus to get a ridiculous tears up?
@@legendsoflaughter3313 honestly, no - i probably spaced out or something
i will say that definitely makes it a bit better, and just gives me an entirely different perspective to look at the item from, though i will say that theres better items for spamming and getting a bunch of tears in the rooms
from that alone, id probably put it right below pluto - its really good, but also with pluto, the fact enemy tears can fly over you is just genuinely overpowered, ive d a delirium kill where i kind of just sat there, and the only time i took damage is when i was telefragged and i mightve gotten too close once, plus your fingers dont start to cry lol
Holy Mantle!!!
Idk Neptune could do that!!!
Cursed eye tear effect has always been one of my favourites in the game so i kinda always liked neptune, because i could get a little bit of that feeling without all the baggage of actually having that trash cursed item, despite being weaker.
This changes everything!! Neptune might become one of my favourite items in the entire game, now it feels like the perfect combination between choco milk and cursed eye that i never knew it existed.
Thank you for this forbidden knowlegde, i will use it wisely.
I felt the exact same way about it lol. At the very least, charge effects are useful because you can charge up in moments where you couldn't deal damage anyway. It makes all charge effects great for room clearing because you can charge up before you enter a new room, and for bosses you still get some use if there is ever any downtime (eg hush going underground, but even just something like delirium being at the opposite side of the room or he's moving too quickly to hit, you can charge and wait for a moment where you know you'll hit). So I already liked neptunus just for this, because it gave all the benefits of charge shot without preventing the ability to fire normally. Never knew that you could spam the button to get a big dps increase.
As for the rest of the list, i would probably put Pluto in insane too, above Terra even. I have no idea how hitboxes work in isaac, between the visual fake height to the chaging size by being smaller, i dont get it. But what i do know, is that everytime i take Pluto, im just invincible against enemy tears.
I really havent tested super well but i feel like i have never ever been hit by tears after taking this item, so for me it was always the strongest planetarium, well, until now, where i need to check the secrets of Neptune.
I also agree 100% that all planetariums should be stronger, just like my tiny rant in my comment of the angel room video about Godhead not being the actually strongest item in the whole game. Whats best about planetariums is the theme of them and how they work with it, so i wouldnt really change ones like Mercury just because they are pretty fun on their own merit. But Mars and Jupiter need to be stronger. I always found crazy that Jupiter only gives you 2 hearts, it should give you something like 4 (still empty, thats part of the fun). And even crazier, it should give you an even higher speed down with a faster recharge time to an even higher speed up. Transform Isaac into an actual rocket man.
As for Mars, just making it a charge bar or somehing akin to that could be better, altough just stopping the accidental movement would be enough.
Im so glad to see that ive taught the hidden arts of neptunus to more people 😂
EARTH INSANE TIER
Looking back I also don't understand why they didn't make mars double tap shoot like divine intervention like that feels like such a simple fix
@@mbot1901 I think it def would be better on shoot, but it still might have some issues. For one, it now wouldn't work well in combination with divine intervention, which I imagine might be a reason they didn't put both of them on shoot. It would also make mars awful on tainted eve, since her character encourages tap shooting to not accidentally create clots. Divine intervention still works since accidentally activating the shield isn't an issue, but you can't ever afford to accidentally active mars because you'll go flying (into beast lava or spikes, every time, it's hard coded into the game to only activate in that circumstance). I think double tap ctrl while moving would work but it might be weird on the forgotten since he uses ctrl to switch forms already, but if it's double tap it should still work? (because you'll switch back to your original form again right before you dash). I think that that would be the best button prompt for it, given that turning it into an active item isn't a possibility (more specifically, a passive/active hybrid, you pick it up and permanently gain a 2nd active slot that you use mars from, I think that would be best).
@@turtier That's a good point that I hadn't considered when it comes to tainted eve, double tap ctrl is a little awkward and honestly I would prefer they put less button mapping on control because it's already a crowded button as is, but I do think it's most likely the best option. I think personally I would also be satisfied if it were double tap shoot and was just a bad item for tainted eve or with antigravity, since there are already certain items that kinda work that way already in the sense that some characters just never want to pick them up, but I definitely see your point. They would never do this but I think that Ideally I would like to see the mars effect reworked into an active that's similar to a pony except with no flight and on a cooldown timer, but that's just wishful thinking. Overall the item is fundamentally kinda flawed no matter how you look at it imo
I think Uranus should be in INSANE, not only does it destroy groups of enemies, but it also protects you from death rattles, great item for the Lost/Tainted Lost. Also the slow down on enemies and their bullets is quite nice as well. Plus it's very satisfying. I do think Terra is the best Planetarium item, while Neptunus is either second or third. It is a really good item, but it doesn't work with a lot of good tier effects which drags it down a bit for me, plus the spam clicking necessary to keep it high for boss fights can be kinda tiring. I could go either way on which I think is better.
Okay Pluto above Uranus is kinda crazy, and I do think Terra is just a straight up better item with a lot more utility then Neptunus. Only other thing I might change is swapping Saturnus and Mercurius.
@@mellow3995 It's important to note that Neptunus with NO TEARS UPS brings you far past the tear cap for free. Terra isnt even comparable from a power perspective, it only has an arguement because of utility with breaking rocks, doors, and secret rooms. Terra can't solo a run, while neptunus can. Basically Terra is best early game for minmaxing while neptunus is just auto win no matter what.
@@mellow3995 Uranus is good but pluto is much better into bosses, which uranus struggles with.
@@latermanner There's 2 parts to Pluto and personally I think there's demerits for both of them. Firstly, the tears up is nice but undeniably useless at maxed tears because it doesn't break the cap, so if you have maxed tears (which is pretty common for most runs) only the second effect matters when having it. The secondary effect is also mixed for me personally because sometimes the extreme size-down can cause me issues with dodging (which is ironic I know) and I often lose my character in my peripheral when focusing on bullets. It still offers more help than it hurts but I find it's not always 100% helpful. I understand that my issues with Pluto are probably a personal problem but it's how I feel regardless. Lastly, I don't think there's anything wrong with an item being less useful against bosses, most of the game is getting to the bosses and even then, a good amount of bosses have minions so there's still some use you can get out of it.
@@latermanner Neptunus is undeniable good for sure, but Terra has far more utility and a good balance of power as well. Although I do believe I and you could beat the game with either item only. Neptunus would give more dps EASILY but Terra would give access to more consumables and special rooms EASILY. It saves bombs which can be used to supplement your weaker damage, plus the ability to leave or skip hostile/dangerous rooms makes the runs safer. This is another situation where one item excels at killing bosses whereas the other item excels with everything else. I personally value Terra more. This conversation has been really fun though, I enjoyed your video quite a lot. I am kinda tempted now to start with every planetarium item and check to see how quickly/easily I beat the run.
I had no idea about the Neptunus exploit that is so busted. I've got to use that next time I get it.
Its so crazy
Neptunus, Camo Underpants, and Kidney Stone are my favourite items. Even without the trick mentioned in this video, its so satisfying to blast enemies.
English speakers saying sol like "soul" is kinda funny
Exactly
I brought this up in a thread below, but thought it might be worth a proper comment. Is uranus actually that good? I mean, I like it alright personally, but thinking about the item, I'm not completely sure how strong it is objectively speaking. It doesn't improve my stats, it only affects enemies already killed, and what it does is that instead of just shooting enemies regularly, it wants me to actively try to walk over to a frozen enemy and push them into other enemies or a wall, killing enemies I could just have killed using my tears while staying out of harm's way. The effect is similar to athame: crowd control effect upon clearing an enemy. But think about how much better athame is. Most importantly, athame just triggers its effect right off. You don't have to push the enemy into a wall to trigger the brim ring. Actually, having the enemies just do the icicle explosion immediately upon death would make uranus much better. But also, the athame ring is, like, laughably much stronger than the icicles. Finally, uranus is pretty bad against bosses. With athame, if you actually have an enemy in the room and trigger the effect, that boss gets ripped up pretty hard. I mean, both these items are supposedly q3. I appreciate the fact that uranus stops death animations and spawns, but honestly, does it even qualify as an A-tier item? I might be too hard on it. But it just feels a bit like a flashy item without that much substance when I think about it.
I sometimes think this too, I'll pick it up and think "is it actually good? On paper it doesn't seem that good" and then it consistently impresses me every time I think that. The athame comparison doesn't work, because athame is an offensive item, but uranus is actually a defensive item! Tainted lost really appreciates having no death effects, especially on runs that get quite explosive and there is a real risk that you enter a room and instantly kill all the enemies, causing random death shots to potentially hit you. On runs that are low on damage, you can still use the icicles for extra power too. Uranus is also guarantee to proc, which makes it better than athame sometimes. That being said, athame is definitely better overall, but I do think that the items are very different. However it does seem that a few people think we put luna too low, so maybe it's better than uranus. I think in general the planetarium items could be a little stronger, like uranus should have a small slow down effect (similar to spider bite). Because I do agree that it's weird seeing uranus as 4th highest on the list, it seems like it's not good enough, while simultaneously still being good enough to deserve the position, it's weird.
I personally think Luna should be higher than Uranus. Uranus just kinda makes you stomp enemies, like rooms are basically free and explosive enemies cant hit you
It’s an interesting take to think of Uranus as a defensive item mainly. I guess it makes sense, it’s just that bone spurs does the same thing as Uranus, and I’ve never thought of that item as very good. But maybe I’ve just never really considered how beneficial it actually is. Anyway, Luna definitely better I’d say. Way more and better benefits. So what if it doesn’t help against all bosses, it helps against the far majority, and Uranus does rather little against any boss.
Mars was done SOOOOO dirty by the controls. Its literally a dodgeroll with damage. Still my favorite planetarium item regardless of how good other items are
I really wanted this item to be usable because I see the potential lol. It probably should have been a passive/active hybrid like book of virtues. Not the part where it fuses with your current active, but it should be a passive item that permanently adds mars as a 2nd active item that you can switch to.
Everyone WANTS this item to be good, but it just got kinda screwed
Didn't know about Neptunus trick, feels like the Chocolate Milk, but better
I disagree with Luna, would put it in top of nice for tears and utility with finding pickups and possible secret pool items
And Jupiter could be placed higher, in later stages most of the time you go to cap for speed so speed down stat doesn't matter that much
Yeah its like spamming chocolate milk but with no decrease in damage, so its crazy 😂
𝓯𝓻𝓮𝓪𝓴𝔂 Tierlist :)
You guys should make a shop itrm tier list
The shop tier list has been in purgatory forever. It was going to be the first list we ever recorded, then we did secret room instead. Then we left it aside for a bit. We were then going to finally do it, but Manner was busy so we opted to do planetarium since it was shorter. And that's happened again now so we've recorded 2 more shorter lists. The shop tier list can't escape us forever though! XD
Ok this is going purely on logic and I’m not sure if it’s exactly how it works, but if we assume terra’s damage fluctuation is completely random, it significantly more than evens out. Say your damage is 5. Double that is 10, half is 2.5. 10 minus 2.5 is 7.5, meaning an average plus 2.5 damage. That’s a 50% damage increase - same as magic mush and crickets head (ok without their damage ups but really). Granted, an actual and stable damage multiplier is better in different ways (like with regard to stuff that scales with your damage), but it’s a pretty massive damage up for sure. Not sure if it tips the neptunus placement though.
This is what I was trying to say in the video too. Although I think it would be a 1.25x multiplier, not a 1.5x one (I think you need to do (10+2.5)/2 = 6.25 as average terra damage, which is 1.25x higher than 5 damage). But this depends if it actually takes 0.5x to 2x as the full range distributed uniformly, or if it instead has an equal chance to be above or below the 1x multiplier, which means the range between 0.5 and 1 are uniform, and the range between 1 and 2 are uniform, but the range from 0.5 to 2 is not. I believe d8 works this way, so I would assume terra is the same, which would mean that it's not actually a dps increase (although when I do the math assuming this, my result was that it's still a dps increase of 1.125x... idk, maybe I just need to do a dps test on this item to find out what's going on LOL)
@@turtier Intuitively the 1.25x multiplier seems truer than dps neutral, but then LM is still definitely right that Neptunus is significantly better in terms of dps. But yeah I'm not sure I understand it correctly either.
Mars is tragic, because I really want to defend it, and I think on paper its one of the better planetarium effects, but damn it is way too easy to accidentally proc it.
I think a decent fix for it for it could be to map it to double tapping the fire button rather than double tapping a movement direction. It would still be a problem for certain items like Chocolate Milk, or Bob's Brain, but just making it less likely to accidentally proc it would make the item a lot more usable.
Could also turn it into a pocket active.
@@RematodeRanger Kilburn has said that pocket actives are meant to be exclusive to tainted characters, so that's why it's not a pocket. Although I don't see why it couldn't be similar to book of virtues, where it's a passive item that gives you an active item (you could switch between your current active item and mars the same way you swap between 2 actives with schoolbag, it would work).
I actually super agree on it being double tap shoot, thats a lot easier to not accidentally proc
A tierlist video that isnt over 1 hour long? Who are you and what did you do to manner?
They must have impersonated me, too. Manner might, but no way I'd let a tier list be this short!
Jokes aside, it was actually still longer than we thought it would be LOL.
lmaooooo
My last run had Birthright Tainted Lazarus, and the ghost laz still had the Neptunus effect! Can't wait to put that exploit into practice.
Happy that you guys rank Neptunus so highly. It basically doubles your fire rate if you spam it. You don’t even have to spam it fast
I'm a really slow button masher and even I was able to easily see a massive dps increase the instant I tested it, so that says a lot.
@@turtier definitely 👍
sorry im hella late but anyways pluto im not goin lie if you die with pluto, you can't blame anyone but yourself because you're too small to be getting it feels, hell you're basically able to dodge inbetween a wall of tears that would normally be impossible to dodge my hush's rings of tears
I had no idea about the Neptunus strat, I was always really happy to see it but now I can't wait to try it when I eventually find it.
Its sooooo cracked
I love that Luna is not affected by tears modifiers. Completely mitigates damage ups with big tears down multipliers
It is affected by tears modifiers. It just doesn't use the standard tear formula, which caps at 5. I like to call it "flat tears", but it's not exactly the same as "flat damage". Flat damage truly is never affected by multipliers, but for some reason, curved horn (and ONLY curved horn) gives a flat damage increase that IS affected by multipliers. Flat tears up is like the flat damage of curved horn. If you pick up something like polyphemus or brimstone, luna will give you less tears, but it's still consistent in the sense that every run that has brimstone will get the same increase from luna, and it still goes over the new cap that brimstone gives you.
Keyboard dead god here, mars still is trash
im on mars giving aliens venus
oo big mama
Honestly, I think mercurius is like the best item in the whole pool, maybe on par with terra. But the ability to just skip rooms you don't feel like doing is crazy. Especially when you consider that most health is lost in normal rooms rather than bosses, which helps you converve a ton of health.
It's extremely impractical if you need to go back to that room for any reason though. So if you want to full clear the floor, it's useless, and if your trying to skip rooms but you picked the wrong direction then it's not as useful as it seems. You also need to clear the rooms adjacent to all special rooms otherwise they don't open. On top of all that, you still can take damage even if you don't clear the room, because some enemy layouts block the way to the door. I feel like this is why a lot of the time I opt to just clear most of the rooms anyway.
Sheeee let’s gooo
An interesting tierlist would be about Floors, because some of them are either freebies, or even if you have an broken run you end up loosing because of how tough some of them can be, like Womb 1
The thumbnail with Terra in ‘TRASH’ tier totally got me, well fucking played
Another reason Luna is better than Sol is due to the fact that Luna has 3 really good synergies (Blue Map, X-Ray Goggles, Spelunker Hat), whereas Sol only debatably has synergies with any mapping items. You could see the mapping items as mitigating some of the use of Sol's mapping, but it also can direct you to the boss room faster.
Mercurius is extremely min-maxable with active item charges, and that, on top of ignoring rooms that you won't do well with, makes it high Nice at minimum for me.
Venus' Charming isn't nearly as strong as it should be, considering that's all it's got, essentially.
Terra is Insane bare minimum, since it's a more controlled Dr. Fetus with a damage up that cannot hurt you.
Mars would be much better as a pocket active, right now it's too easy to trigger on accident.
ive never played on controller, and i love getting mars as a keyboard player, so im gonna simply go half here and say mars is mid IF were considering the balance to both play styles, BUT.. as a keyboard only player (cant even imagine playing controller lol), this item is really cool. not like... "omg i got mars!!" but i dont hate getting it like i hate getting Jupiter or something.
++ i dont think Jup is BAD, the fart sounds just annoy tf out of me and id risk all the rewards to not deal with that. im sensitive idfk
I think jupiter wouldn't be as bad if not for the fact that the speed down is so noticeable especially early game
The farts are unironically my biggest reason for hating the item 😂
@@mbot1901yeah with no speed down i actually think itd be a decent item