What's the Best TTRPG for Homebrew Magic?

[@baitposter]

Tiny Dungeon 2e _(TinyD6 system of games)_ necessitates that the DM homebrew the magic because it only sets the foundation for scroll reading but the spell list is largely up to the game master.
Kitbashes readily with other TinyD6 games and supplements, too, with tons of optional rules _(across all of the TinyD6 games, especially)_ to take it from kid-friendly Mausritter-esque simplicity to as deep as D&D.
It's one of my favorite systems. It's quick to learn and easy to run, with the books providing lots of micro-settings to get the DM started.

[@baitposter]

Mutants & Masterminds is also built around power effects, as (being superhero themed) it needs to be flexible for all sorts of flavoring possibilities.

[@themagicengineer5314]

I've been told that's a great system but I haven't ever played it or read the rules. I'll have to add it to the list

[@inigocilveti3287]

This channel has been a godsend right now. I find myself thinking about this stuff these days and I really wanted to find some youtube content to get me inspired, subscribed!

[@themagicengineer5314]

So glad to hear it! Thank you for the comment and the sub. Be sure to let me know if you have any questions or if there's something your struggling with and I'll do what I can to answer/address it

[@leilacoelho5458]

by far, the best is Trevas (Marcelo Del Debio, Daemon system) Brazilian writer... also the same system is used in other game Arcanum (precessor of Trevas)
you got 3 ways of knolge (understanding, controling and creating wich you need to combine with some of the following) elemntal magic (earth, water, fire and wind), then you got light and dark magic, then you got plants and animals magic, then arcanum (summons) and spiritual magic (astral) , and for last you got both humanum magic to control the human mind and body and metamagic to control the magic as itself, and THEN you can combine everything, but in a soft and realistic world where every knlolage comes with enemies and possible demetias, and rituals demands time and materials to be done.
the best part of Daemon system for me is the magic system and the fact you heals 1 HP by resting a good 8 hours of rest, so you REALY dont want to get shot or something.

[@themagicengineer5314]

That sounds amazing! Can you clarify the name of the system for me? And do you know if it's available on DriveThruRPG?

[@knaz7468]

Interesting system (open legend). Seems like "D&D lite"? Has classes, attributes, feats, perks, etc. The Banes and Boons are basically status effects (positive and negative) right? I mean if any other TTRPG system had similar effects you can do all the same stuff in those systems right?
The homebrew magic you are talking about sounds like a fun thing to play with ... but you would have to give up on "balance" since stuff could/will just grow out of proportion. But of course that doesn't matter if everyone is having fun!

[@themagicengineer5314]

That's part of why I like open legend. It's designed to be genre agnostic and has all the components to match a lot effects of many other systems out there. And the balance is kind of automatically worked in because you're just mixing and matching the abilities, not changing the any of the growth or power curves... at least that's been my experience.
Also, thanks for binging videos and all of the comments. Glad to have you here!

[@oldmanofthemountains3388]

I like the sound of this system. It sounds a lot like FATE but much easier.

[@themagicengineer5314]

Kind of, yeah!

[@arcanefeline]

I've played Open Legend. It is a decent system, but lacks something. Can't put my finger on it. Too generic, maybe?
In any case, it is very homebrew-able. And pretty balanced.
Edit: Okay, I though about it and identified my issued with OL. First, personal preference: I prefer systems specifically designed for a particular setting, genre or playstyle, not generic, genre-agnostic systems.
Second, OL is balanced and unbalanced at the same time. Let me explain. The boon/bane systems makes it that any character or NPC with a high enough stat can do certain things if the player comes up with a good enough explanation. Example: in one of my games, a PC had a pet parrot. That parrot had high Agility (which is reasonable, because it is a bird), which allowed it to inflict so many banes (especially Blindness) on the enemies it's crazy. This made the parrot a combat powerhouse on par with the mages and warriors of the party. While funny, it strained my immersion. But it was legal, RAW.

[@themagicengineer5314]

You're absolutley right. It can really struggle from not having strong themes, visuals and settings of its own. You have to generate them all yourself.
I also found that all the characters started to feel the same. If you had rank 5 in Alteration, you could access ALL the boons and banes and so could any other character with a rank of 5. So at my table, we use some homebrew rules where you can "learn" a limited number of boons and banes based on your rank. That way the five you pick are unlikely to be the same as the five an NPC or different PC pics. It adds a lot of variety and helps characters have more personality. I didn't think I should get into that in this video though ;P

[@RUJedi]

Great topic! More videos at the intersection of RPGs and magic development, use, and as a resource would be fantastic.

[@themagicengineer5314]

what kinds of questiond do you have? what kinds of discussions would you find particularly useful? Let me know and I'll do my best to fill the gap :)

[@RUJedi]

​@@themagicengineer5314 I think you're spot on about homebrewing & thinking through things like power balances with games like D&D where magic already so well defined. I greatly enjoy the idea of Mage, but find it way too cumbersome (despite enjoying game crunch). I think you could do a great job bringing your review of magic systems and thinking through how to create new ones into a new RPG magic series. Here's a few idea areas:
1) Magic systems are one of the main reasons I'll check out a RPG and I think there is lots of opportunity with systems that are already more free-form. Homebrewing seems an automatic for systems like FATE, where you they provide the toolkit, a bit like Open Legend, and the GM & players come up with content. Maybe a future talk topic here is how to span one of the greatest challenges I find with *very* open & free-form systems like FATE -- the creativity problem. In some ways, FATE's flexibility is a double-edge sword. Use of aspects (and the FATE point economy) can really drive types and use of magic and magical effects, but that reliance can really suffer if the players' creativity to come up with and use aspects isn't cranked up. Shadow of the Weird Wizard (spinoff from Shadow of the Demon Lord and familiar in many ways to D&D), looks promising for people who'd like a low-bar homebrew to come up with new spells or path options -- the SoWW / SoDL paths offer some interesting multi-classing-esque ways to allow anyone to be a spellcaster. (My info on SoWW is from previews & news as it should be coming to Kickstarter soon.)
2) If you wanted to do a review / critique of how to rethink magic systems in well-established games, I highly recommend a commentary video on the Spheres of Power -- the alternate magic system originally for Pathfinder and ported over to D&D 5e that completely rethinks how magic works and is used. I like completely tosses out the old magic system and replaces it with a character design matters most approach to magic, which still fits in well with the rest of the game system.
3) Other video topics could talk about RPG magic systems that rethink our generic magic troupes like schools of magic. I have much love for D&D but seeing another game that has schools or disciplines for fire, necromancy, illusion, and so on don't excite me. If a game is going to stick to that tried & true tradition, at least spice it up with different ways to use those magical disciplines. For example, Warhammer Fantasy deviates a bit from this with their "magical winds" concept, but I also like how they mix in the increased potential for corruption the magic is used & where it is used. The Hogwarts RPG (PBtA-based ) ditches classic magic disciplines, instead organizing most spells by Hogwarts classes by school year.
4) Rethinking and homebrewing ways that magic can influence characters and the game world beyond any already stated magic effects. This could delve into areas like chaos / wild magic, magical surges or siphons, spell failure, or meta magics like counter-spelling and taking control of other spells. I see plenty of main systems & 3rd party content that treat this a type of character class or random result tables that stem from critical failures or successes, few build these topics into the system as part of the game background / setting. Again, Warhammer Fantasy gets at this a bit.
5) Magic and spellcasting as a resource is often a topic of discussion on things like Vancian spell slots or magic point pools for a range of spells or specific spell frequency (e.g., x times per day). Yet, I don't see much traction in many games for the 'unlimited' spell resource options beyond what we'd see in or similar to D&D's 0-level cantrip spells. Maybe this is part of game balance compared to non-magic options. Then again, this gap might be happily filled by skill-based magic, like FATE (esp. Dresden Files). However, this feels like a feels like an area for exploration -- i.e., what does it mean to have (un)limited amounts of magical casting potential. An example here might be the Wizarding World of Harry Potter, where they seem content to continue flinging spells about throughout the day without any sign of tiring from casting or restriction on how often they can cast a particular spell.
6) Finally, perhaps you could extend some of your previous video topics into some RPG goodness -- of course, prefacing that the results here would vary heavily on the game system you used since some are better than others for different styles of gameplay. I could see some returns to your videos like using your Seed Crystal in "How to Structure Your Magic Like Allomancy" to help generate new homebrew content for a specific game system. Similarly, you could apply your Seed Crystal as a thought foundation to scaffold into a RPG magic system for other existing magic systems, like those featured in your "3 Magic Systems You Should Check Out" video. Likewise, you could create some in-video examples that pull from your "How to Make Elemental Magic Fresh Again" (or Necromancy or Superpowers).
Links to some videos talking about these RPGs' magic systems if you're not yet familiar with them.
Magic in Warhammer Fantasy: th-cam.com/video/NoT_ZEUg0gA/w-d-xo.html
Sphere of Power: th-cam.com/video/rCmAjSGdmNo/w-d-xo.html
FATE spellcasting: th-cam.com/video/jmkIUkbmuwE/w-d-xo.html
Hogwarts RPG: dbb-8.itch.io/hogwarts-rpg
SOWW: schwalbentertainment.com/2023/03/23/weird-wizard-closer-look-paths/
forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/shadow-of-the.906887/page-2#post-24875010

[@themagicengineer5314]

@@RUJedi Those are some FANTASTIC ideas and resources! I'll start working through them and see what ideas pop up. Don't hesitate to leave more commentes if you have more video ideas/questions!!!

[@Atticus_Moore]

Neat. I love building my own homebrew systems, but I'm never quite satisfied with them for various reasons. I want a simple way to describe a spell or ability but i also want a more in depth cool explanation of the ability so when a player looks at it they go wow i want to make a character that can do this! BUT what this means in reality is that i have to build a big ass magic system just for a tabletop game lol. So last time i got through fire, lightning, and a few other elements and then stopped. Maybe i'll pick it back up again sometime but its a lot of work and currently I would rather work on a story outline for something else. Its still a lot of fun though. Maybe i'll just have to settle for simple explanations because the cool explanations take too much time and effort to write out. just doing lightning magic took like a whole day thinking about each and every kind of way i would be happy with running lightning based magic and then describing how badass it would sound and look. rewarding but also exhausting lol

[@themagicengineer5314]

Start with the framework OL provides and then you can layer your nuanced details for the different schools of magic ON TOP of it. That's what I do for a lot of the games I run

[@lucasfv1357]

"Falling forwards", haven't seen that one since Blood & Honor

[@Amipotsophspond]

so the thing about mage the awakening, the part they did not tell you is you had to be a philosophy nerd to understand how the magic worked and the paradigm restrictions upon it. In mage “paradigm” is “world view”. So like each person has a world view of reality, and collectively it could be said we all have a world view of reality. So in mage magic is your world view of reality being more powerful then collective world view of reality. So like if I am non magical person my world view is that flame throwers exist and are part of reality, but if I am a harry potter style wizard I have a different world view of reality, I can take apart that flame thrower and do a unveil truth spell reveal it has a dragon inside the machine working was just a illusion, if I am Sherlock homes a steam punk scientist I can investigate the dragon and I can find that the dragon is really a ether powered Automata a wondrous invention. So what’s real all of it, it does not really matter. Harry potter can not say I control matter and the part that makes your flame thrower work is worn out so your flame thrower brakes, because that’s not Harry Potters world view, harry potter can say I control the power of life and your dragon is sick so your flame thrower does not work because that is Harry Potter’s world view. Now sherlock can say I control the power of matter everyone look out a falty part on that Automata has broken backing up it’s ether it’s going to explode that is with in his world view even if it was almost the exact thing harry potter’s world view did not allow him to do. Now the muggle non magical human watching all this says I thought I saw a dragon get out of my flame thrower get sick and throw up, but it threw up gears as if it was some kind of steam punk robot. All of this is not how reality works, I must be seeing things. What’s next is a dragon going to take that guy with a wand away or mechanical steampunk golem going to come out from that door way to take that guy with pipe away. And how did a flame thrower get in my hands, I am normal guy going to the grocery store not a action hero in a sci-fi movie, what’s next is the alien from aliens going take away that guy with all the cybernetic implants clearly going to star trek convention as a Borg. And the non magical human went about his day forgetting the mages, as the 3 mages were dragged kicking and screaming out of normal reality where they clearly don’t fit in with the collective world view all records of them being erased from existence just like photo in back to the future. Mage the awakening did not explain this well and it made it hard for new people to be hired to write for mage the awakening because some people just did not get the concept. So they destroyed old mage dumbed it down and remade it. Under the Types section of This wikipedia article can bring insights en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monism mage the awaking is Metaphysical pluralism or Metaphysical nihilism for Nephandi type. All of this is really important to understanding philosophical magic, I found your channel because I am trying to do more user friendly old Mage I see openlegendrpg kind of beat me to it. “entropy” really openlegendrpg no copying mage:awake with that one. but openlegendrpg seems they side stepped getting in to any of the swampy weeds of the hard to convey philosophy, with it’s just a system no meaning just use it. Mage:awake is soft rational not irrational but the rational part is like pointers in C it must be explained, and it is is irrational if you define rational/irrational as what the audience can understand with the system but that depends on the reader not the writer. The biggist problem with mage was big impressive words like the word paradigm, just use “world view”. the philosophical definition of metaphysics not “reality is what you believe it is, and also what everyone else does too”. “Cosmology” is just "how reality works". “Entropy” while word this great in play it became "decay and luck", In the game/thing I am making I just replace it with the well known “necromancy” that world of darkness could not do because they already had a necromancy.

[@themagicengineer5314]

That is what I loved and hated about Mage. It was open to anything with the proper mindset and planning... Which in turn meant it was limited by almost nothing. Those games had to have just the right type of player for it to work. Otherwise people were lost and unsure how to use the magic or always looking for hacks to "beat the game" and all situations it could throw at them.

[@Krashwire]

5e is not the best for anything. It is only someone favorite game until they play anything else.

[@TwinSteel]

🥳🫂👍🏿