Surprised that nobody has commented on the fact that the review scores at the end of the video are covered by overlapping youtube suggested videos?? Unbelievable.
Great review! It would be very nice to hear your opinion…I have the 1120+ KEF R3 Meta and I would like to know if changing to the 3400 would make a noticeable impact in sound quality. Many thanks
I often get that question. The 1120 is a bit more grainy sounding, primarily coming from the power amps. In general, I think the longevity of the sound of the poweramps is their weakest point. That said, the 3400 is higher spec. The converter and theoretical resolution is higher. If you are not using the line out of the 1120 for subwoofers or other things, try playing around with hooking up another power amp and see if it makes a musical difference to you. I routinely use the 3400 and 1120 as pre-amp processors and think they are like nothing else in terms of functionality. I dont think you need any extra power with the R3`s.
Great review, I'm seriously looking at the Lyngdorf TDAI-3400... The only other room correction system I've seen that is similar is the one by Trinnov which is in the 10's of thousands and it measures everything in frequency and time domain (it looks like roomperfect does the same kind of measurements more affordably, as going for Trinnov and the likes of Marantz PM10 would be pretty steep)... In any case I'm very impressed with the Lyngdorf.
Hi Adam. Thank you for watching the channel! I think what makes the lyngdorf so great, is the user experience first of foremost. They seem to have been prioritizing things very much towards user friendliness and easy to get usable results, but all the room correction stuff is totally "siloed" and hidden, so you cant see what is being done....but you can "Just listen", witch is often much better. The results RP makes with their approach almost always results in a very musical presentation with very good, neutral bass definition. Trinnov have a very different approach, as they come / are from the professional world. Their processors was developed for studio use first, and they work as you correctly state also in the time - phase domain, and use a special microphone for this. Everything can be tweaked, but it is very easy to get lost for a HIFI audiophile that has no deep knowledge of audio engineering. Lyngdorf works by measuring the frequency response in the listening position, and then the power response in the room, witch negative effects can then be subtracted. They also apply a musical tilt it seems. It's a fully automated way (besides your setup settings that you have to get right, of course) process, that produces a focus listening preset and a "global" preset, that is best for casual listening out of the focus position. You can even measure more than one position (also true for trinnov). As a package, I can not give a better recommendation than the 3400. It is brilliant for what it does in favor of the music. Only thing that I criticise is the power amps, that seems to be boring in the longer run. When/if that point is reached, - then change that by using the 3400 as a preamp instead, and experiment with other power amp combos. That gave it a whole new gear in my reference setup, where I simply return to this very amp for all its ease of use and deep functionality that can cover actually everything at the same time. At this price point it is hard to point to anything else, that can do what the 3400 does as a "package" that you will love to use.
@@stjernholmreviews Wow, such a detailed answer! Which features in the 3400 make you choose it over the 1120 in the preamp setup? Looking into this seriously myself.
@@peterschaldemose7861 It has balanced outputs, AND the digital output, meaning that you could use it as a preamp, AND still add two subwoofers. Heck, the built in poweramp is so powerful that it would be driving passive woofers if needs be. The flexibility is unbeatable in that regard. Thank you for watching the channel!!
I have TDAI 3400 through DALI epicon 6. There are several "voices" that the TDAI 3400 can use to produce warmer sounds, and you can even make your own profiles. it seems this review used only the "neutral" voice setting, but there are several others including 2 music settings
:-). Then you did not watch the entire review. I talk in detail about voicings. The 3400 Is actually very powerfull in this regard. Not only can you do your own refined voicings, but you also have the same filters avaliable for individual speaker EQ BEFORE Room Perfect is applied. Its really a powerhouse, thus being called the most advanced integrated amplifier in the world here. I am planning doing a deep dive video, showcasing the vast possibilities of this super-amp. Anything particular you have been wondering about?
Another great review! Thank you! How big is the difference in sound quality between the TDAI-3400 and the TDAI-1120 as a preamp + a good poweramp? I got the idea from your review and bought a NAD C298 power amp for the TDAI-1120. It was a great idea, by the way, because it significantly improved the sound.
Hello Mr. Nagy! Thank you for watching the channel and commenting so kindly! The difference depends really on how you plan to use it, what your sources are? If only using the built in streamer, there wont be much difference. But if you add high quality analog components and connect those analog, then the higher grade input converters on the 3400 will make a sonic difference. Keep experimenting, and let us know your discoveries!
A great and thorough review. RoomPerfect really made a welcome improvement in my setup with B&W 804s towers. Although I thought my room was quite good to begin with, the TDAI 2170 really made it sound warmer and more easy on the ears with a nice tight bass. Acoustic instruments and vocals sound spot on! Hilsner fra Vedbæk:)
"easy on the ears" is a very good description. When the speaker/room combination needs it, there is really nothing that can compare. Try your 2170, with a alternative power amplifier to explore next level sound with the 804 speakers 🙂. THANK YOU FOR WATCHING THE CHANNEL!
@@stjernholmreviews Thanks for the suggestion. I will try it sometime. For now I'll have to save my money until I know how expensive the heating bills will be this coming winter...
Another fantastic review. I’ve had my 1120 running Dyn C2’s and a pair of subs now for around 6 months to see if RP was for me and to learn what Lyngdorf can do for me at the bargain level so now its time to upgrade to the 3400. In the past I’ve had the whole audiophile attitude of “ don’t alter anything, no tone controls no nothing” approach but our rooms are the biggest issue in audio that cant be tamed by basic product without technology or hit and miss acoustic treatments at silly money. Room Perfect is absolutely fantastic as is the voicing’s so you can revisit and enjoy your older recordings and artists that didn’t have the technology of today when they recorded so were left discarded.For anyone thinking about the 1120?at it’s price point it’s a no brainer, IMO beats everything at its price point and would be all you need for most people I would think. The 3400 is clearly just that next level again. Cheers !
GDUBYA, Thank you for the kind words! I totally agree with your reasoning. Let us know how you like the 3400 in your setup! Share your experience here!
@@stjernholmreviews Very nice review. After your reviews I decided to replace my streamer and my DAC by TDAI-1120 and connect it as a DAC to my Naim SuperNait 3 integrated amplifier. I tried this combination and RoomPerfect made a major improvement . Now I think about TDAI-3400. Which combination you think is better - Tdai-1120 plus SuperNait 3 or use only TDAI-3400? Thanks a lot in advance
@@haimsheffer5066 Haim, that must be totally up to you to decide. The 3400 has more features, is better built, more connectivity and better DACs. The amps are much more powerful, but might not be what you are looking for. Get hold of one and try it. Compare it with the Naim amps and hear what works best for you. Its the only way to know. Its your music!
@@stjernholmreviews Thanks a lot. Let me explain. I can achieve same room correction if I use 1120 or 3400. Correct ? Then which option would be better as per your view? I know I need to try but I would like to know your opinion.
Let me write it in different way. Let us suppose my room is perfect from acoustic point of view. And I use turntable input only. Which amp would you choose ?
This was a great 👍🏿 review, and I must say as for my listening taste, along with my love of all things multi-faceted, I definitely plan on giving this an audition. However, I must say that while watching your review, I was reminded of another reviews(Andrew Robinson)subjective opinions on a similar product, the NAD M33. He too, said that amp was perfect, neutral in its presentation, yet ultimately called it boring. After watching your video I find the similarities. interesting, as other reviews that I have seen of both products, particularly those done by reviewers who lean more into hometheater, LOVE these amps for the exact same reasons. I credit you for saying that "perfection" can be a "double edged sword", but your ultimate response got me to thinking 🤔; why the divide? From what I have observed, it seems that a lot of two channel enthusiasts. reviewing these amps, were somewhat disappointed in that the amp didn't function as tome control, while conversely, those reviewers coming from hometheater backgrounds, were thrilled that the M33 and the 3400, "got out of the way" of the music, and upstream or downstream sources. I was always under the impression, that the amplifier was supposed to amplify the signal fed to it, and if possible be load invariant, 🤔. I guess I did not realize how many people purchase amps looking for them to alter(compliment) the sound of their music, speakers, etc. And with so many "alterations" to the signal potentially taking place, how does one even know, or go about discovering what their gear, and more importantly, source materials sound like? I thank you for your time and efforts in your reviews, as I really enjoy them, please keep up the great work, and stay safe.
Hello Isaac and thank for watching! Your comment is one of the best ones I have seen yet, and opens up a really important discussion. Musical enjoyment is something that can be judged to be "correct" or "not-correct" as the response is in the ears of the listener. Thats why I talk a lot about my personal preferences that is all about realism and truth, collateral damage from all my years in professional audio as a engineer and post production mixer (tv, movies, trailers, mastering). Your point is very valid. In high quality home cinema (and multichannel music) setups, you tend to go for realism, scale and headroom in a complete "sphere" around the listener. Subwoofers are in place to create even more headroom, and standards for playback levels exists to ensure that what was done on the mixing stage, can be accurately replicated in another theater. .. Thus, there is one correct way of reproducing the film soundtrack,... and that is how it sounded at the mixing stage 🙂. With music, the picture is very different. It is (or should be IMO) be about how it makes you FEEL. For many audiophiles, a lot (we can argue too much) of that feeling can be tied up in beliefs, earlier preferences, memories of uncles 3" full tone, tube driven HIFI he said was the best and so on..) or the very insecure ones obsesses over how things "meassure". At the last HIFI show i attended, the best musical experience was some harbeth speakers with some manley tube year and a turntable playing a old Nina Simone record. The sound had a lot of soul... On the other hand, I KNOW how that recording sounds, and this system had none of that, but it provided a "translation" that was very seductive and definetely not "correct" at all. The fascinating part is, that the gear probably measures fine, and no one can fully understand what makes us feel in a certain way,. Maybe the lightning in the room also had something to do with it. The best thing any audiophile can do, is to JUST LISTEN and trust those things on each side of your head. There is no such thing as right or wrong when it comes to how music playback makes you feel. There is only a whole lot of lack of experience and perspective, a thing I try to help with in my professional work. Again, thank you for contributing, I hope this will be a interesting thread!
@@stjernholmreviews I really appreciate your honesty and perspective, thank you very much for your response. I love the fact that you referenced the nostalgia aspect of this discussion. I have mentioned that before, that I do believe that how we first experience music in a way that touches us, will be the way that we will prefer to hear it again, having already associated a good memory to it. I guess it's the pragmatist in me, or maybe the music/movie lover, that's held on to the notion of if I like or enjoy a piece of art, or artist, the more I want to experience their work as "accurately" as possible, and I say this as someone who has cried to music playing from a clock radio, and was equally as moved when I heard/saw it performed live. I will be honest in saying that as I have experienced different DACs, and other pieces of gear, speakers, etc. things that may have extracted more information from a piece of audio, that I have found it more enjoyable, excited to have heard something different, but I have never not danced, cried, and or otherwise enjoyed art that I liked, unless of course, the needle scratched, the cd/blu ray skipped, or the radio/ digital signal dropped, with the only variation in my enjoyment directly correlating with the attenuation of the volume 😀 😉 👍🏿! Thank you again, and please continue your great work, and I eagerly look forward to more reviews and hopefully more discussions. That said, I feel like you should post your original response somewhere on your community board or at the beginning of your videos, as I feel it was kind, comprehensive, and brilliant and reads like a mission statement for the unpretentious audiophile (TM) lol! Until next time, Be safe, my friend.
@Stjernholm Reviews First, thank you for reading and responding to my question/comment. What I would add is actually another question. In your opinion, how much of what we enjoy in HiFi or hometheater is brought about by nostalgia 🤔? Either from recalling the sound of their parents' stereo, or their frequently going to live shows which in the case of latter if the venue wasn't purely acoustic, then I would believe that they were actually hearing the P.A. system the music was played through. I ask because from what I've observed, is that those who listeners tend to be more critical of amplifiers like the M33, Benchmark, or others that aspire for a flat or neutral sound. Then there's the question of how music should even be projected in the room. Maybe, I'm too literal for this hobby, but I would think that an accurate sound stage would be one the emmenates from behind the speakers, as opposed to being "forward" if for no other reason, than just the linear structure of a recording, if we were watching it live, i.e. band/vocalist > microphone > audience. The point is that artists would appear or be seen behind the speakers in the reproduction of that event. Thus, I would believe that the soundstage would/should demonstrate that. Those are my thoughts. However, we are here to hear what you have to say, and I humbly thank you for indulging me. I look forward to your future content and hope that you stay safe and blessed.
Wonderfull review, thx. After it I am considering purchasing 3400, will they fit with my Dynaudio Focus 340 speakers? Currently using Yamaha RN803D but some power is missing and beside there is no Tidal connect or Chromcast features which are available on 3400.
I think it is a very complete package, especially if you want to experiment with things, and want access to sound shaping tools. Another reason would be less than optimal speaker placement in a not so perfect room. Lastly, I find the daily user experience among the best in the industry. Only thing I always end up wishing for in the LONG run.. is the power amps. They are powerful, but there is something about the sound, that is not making me love them in the LONG run. Not everyone will agree, of course. But that is my experience. I dont know of anything that comes close to the level of software and daily user experience that "just works" these things packs. Thank you for watching the channel, and thank you for commenting.
Everything will be done in the digital domain, so yes. But remember, they cant do 3 way crossover, if that is what you are after. The crossover functionality is intended for subwoofers. With the 3400 you get more purity .
Thanks for a more detailed review...... I am new to Lyngdorf brand and its very interesting to learn more about them. I was doing some research and some of the online articles say that Micromega 150 is the best in this price segment. Any suggestion on this ??
HI Paul, it will grab them hard by the balls and make absolutely most out of them. 😃 The special forty is not so efficient, so you will make good use of the 3400 power, and if you ever feel like adding more low end and power, you can easily add a dynaudio subwoofer (or two) to the mix.
Why wouldn't a 400W amp @ 4 ohms with exceptional current handling (40A continuous) be able to drive a set of compacts? Mine certainly beats the shit out of my B&W 3-way towers with 3 bass drivers. I'm nowhere close to maxing the amp out when the bass drivers are near maximum excursion. Let's take another scenario; my 84dB sensitivity rated B&W compacts that I use for my gaming desktop are driven by a NAD amp with 2x150W - I have to be very careful not to blow the midbass drivers since the amp easily overpowers them. TLDR: yes, the 3400 would lock your Dynaudios in a tight vice and never let go. In fact, it would probably be way more amp than you need in that scenario.
Superb review and while I think you kind of answered my question in your video I'll still ask :D My setup is already quite ok but I want to do some room correction and therefore the Lyngdorfs look to be a good option. Currently, I have a Bel Canto Black EX preamp/DAC and a Bel Canto Black Dual mono amp. I don't really do anything else than Spotify Connect and TV sound with optical. Would it be possible to use either the 1120 or the 3400 only for Room Perfect and would it make a difference choosing one over the other? I'll be running two REL subs low-pass as well. I don't really need AirPlay 2 support or Tidal Connect though it would be nice since the Bel Canto does not have this.
Is it worthwhile to switch out the Buchardt Audio I150 for the Lyngdorf TDAI-3400 to pair with the Buchardt Audio S400 MKII? I do also use a pair of SVS SB3000 with the S400 MKII. Thanks.
Hey Man thanks for the best reviews of both Lyngdorfs (TDAI 1120 and 3400) on youtube:) Because you've compared both I have some questions :) Personally Ive got my own TDAI 1120 couple months ago (currently running my Klipsch RF 7 III ) and would like to use it as a preamp with some Parasound amp ( dreaming aboout JC5 ) and Ive heard/ read that because of the digital nature of Lyngdorf amp and its different output sensivity ( different than most nondigital amps) it can make some strange noises/hiss while making such connection...have You heard anything about it?? My second question. If 3400 has better dac( but not streamer? ) does that mean that streaming the same song from Tidal or spotify it will obviously sound better on 3400 than 1120??? and also what do You think about the quality of that streamer built in Lyngdorf ? would buying a separate stremer make an impact on the music quality? im asking because since Lyngdorf 1120 got an update for Tidal Hifi I cannot really hear the difference between the Spotify and Tidal Master and actually its frustrating for me:/
Dude!! Thats a lot to ask at once 🙂. 1120 -> to another power amp. No problem. You can even adjust the output gain in the 1120 if the power amp ypu want to use has a very sensitive input. Thats what can cause some hiss if the levels are mismatched. Spotify vs Tidal vs frustration: Good for you! Dont worry, and enjoy the music. I find that it really depends on what music and type of recordings you are listening to, and the resolution of the system you play on and for how long.. Tim & I have done quite deep listening tests with DSD material converted to AAC 256kps and A/B blind tested it... It takes prolonged listening to FEEL the difference on a high resolution system. Even we, trained professional sound engineers can`t necessarily pick the difference right away if proper level compensated. There is no immediate frequency balance change or anything like that to "catch", but prolonged listening will reveal psychoacoustic compression types, as well as certain types of music with very large dynamic range, and very quiet detailed passages. Your klipsch RF7s is very efficient. They do really not need a more powerful amplifier, depending on how crazy loud you want to get. They can produce 105 dB SPL in 4 metre distance with only 60 watts, no problem. Thats the peak levels cinemas are designed to deliver at the listening position! Adding more power, should only be if the listening distance is longer than that, or if you want to get unhealthy loud for some reason having to do with you wanting to go deaf 🙂. Depending on your preferences, even a moderate tube amp could drive them to healthy levels. Streaming wise, the 3400 and 1120 uses the same platform, but the DAC is different. You can hear that, even when just used as a preamp. Again, depending on your music. I am curious. What kind of music do you consume on those RF7? A external streamer will only give you very subtle differences to the internal streamer, and you will love to have the streamer integrated in the app, instead of using several apps. If you dont feel satisfied with your sound, start with the room and speaker placement. THANK YOU FOR WATCHING THE CHANNEL and your kind words. Much appreciated!
Awesome review.Thx to your review I bought the 1120. It is wonderful as a preamp, the app and RP are absolutely great. For the cons, i can confirm the weird hiss, when use as a preamp,I tried to change the output gain, but the noise still remains. I intend to buy a high end power amp to increase SQ, as for the moment i have an integrated which i use as a power amp through av bypass. I wonder if after purchasing the power amp, the 3400 would be a worthy upgrade due to its balanced output? Maybe also for the digital out that enables you to connect a high end source/dac? Once again, thx a lot for excellent reviews for both 1120 and 3400👍👍
awesome really great review, i do have a question though... If the tdai 3400 runs 2 subwoofers via the rca outs on the back, can it also be run to monoblock poweramplifiers via the XLR balanced outputs to the monoblocks for example, to run the PS Audio M1200 which have a tube and digital section for varying sound?... Essentially I would want to use it as a preamplifier/DAC and streamer and just run it to the monoblocks and also have 2 powered subs running out of the rca's would such a setup work?
Great Question. The answer is no, unfortunately. You can use the XLRs and then drive passive subwoofers with the build in amps. This is 100%. I am currently investigating the XLR / RCA relationship, as it seems like the RCA out cant be used for preamp duties, but only for subs (not at the same time as XLR).. Will get back on that. THANK YOU FOR WATCHING THE CHANNEL!
@@stjernholmreviews Thanks for that, the only other thing I could think of would be the digital RCA out on the back of the Lyngdorf 3400, could you run a Y cable from that to the two RCA inputs on the monoblocks? Hence keeping the RCA Analog outs for the subs?
@@howtomakeyourownmusic8084 Yes, you can always use the digital coax for everything independently of the XLR. But in that case, you would need a external DAC. (Its a digital signal, both channels in one). If you go that route, I would use the Digital out for the "pre-amp" function with a great DAC, and then use the XLR (or RCAs) to drive the subs.
@@stjernholmreviews It certainly is confusing isn't it, I asked Lyngdorf the same question and they told me NOT to use a "Y" cable to run from the digital RCA out to both poweramps, instead they said the poweramps should have a digital in and then a pass through to the other (assuming these are monoblocks) and a switch on the back of them to tell the unit which side is running Left and Right... But for the life of me I cannot find any monoblocks that have this digital passthrough port on the back of them LOL... Are you aware of any decent monoblocks like the PS Audio M1200 (or even their BHK higher end version) that have this digital passthrough which Lyngdorf was talking about?... All they could mention was to run to their SDA 2400 which is a "single unit" stereo poweramp and really no advantage of running it on the TDAI 3400 as the power wattage is the same?... I would certainly like to see Lyngdorf come out with a LARGER more capable poweramp or even monoblocks that do what they say other monoblocks should... As I would really love to hear the 3400 with poweramp monoblocks and a tube input stage like in the PS Audio M1200's but this apparently cannot be done, especially with 2 subwoofers in the mix... It's ashame becuase it's a FANTASTIC unit, I LOVE mine!
@@stjernholmreviews If you go the digital out route and XLR (or RCA's) for the 2 subs, what settings need to be adjusted in the Lyngdorf software and the necessary adjustments? So you would essentially be using the TDAI 3400 as the streamer and Room Perfect module and central unit to run the 2 subs only, then digital RCA out to a "pre-amp" function and great DAC (so a pre-amp / DAC) and then from that out to monoblocks? There's apparently no instructions on this in the manual, some great content for you Stjernholm to do a video on using the TDAI 3400 as a seperate unit to run external monoblocks and separate DAC / Pre amps, I would certainly enjoy seeing that as I'm at my wits end with trying to work this out :-)
I'm just wondering about the 1120 in a large room (my living area includes the open kitchen and is 15m long and 5.5m wide by 2.6m high). It seems underpowered for that space. The 3400 looks like a better fit but I'm still a bit worried about the ability to output sound at sufficient volume. I don't need loud music but I want to hear it in the entire room.
@StCreed I cant say anything without the context of the speakers. Say you just wanted to drive a pair of Klipsch Cornwall IV`s ? You would have all the output with a 1120. But if the speakers are not that efficient, and needs loads of current - you might be underpowered. In reality, the difference between 100 and 200 watts is only 3dB. If you are playing dynamic music recordings, you can easily call for 20dB. So in essence, getting the right speaker for your style, room size and SPL needs is more important than the often little output differences in wattage on the amps. With the 1120, you could also go for a setup driving some great smaller speakers you like, and then add two powerful subwoofers for corner placement. Check out the Cue-100 video for more on how that stuff works here: th-cam.com/video/V_G0t2PmDVI/w-d-xo.html&si=tlXDHywQHUcDF9x8
@@stjernholmreviews I was actually thinking about bookshelf speakers, like the Kef R3 meta, Dali Rubikore 2, Focal Aria 906 k2 ltd ed. or similar sized speakers. The living room furniture is changing and the large floorstanders have to go. And my bass goes with it I fear :) At the moment I'm leaning towards an SVS SB2000 pro or Kef KC62 for extra power in the region until around 200 Hz, which should make extra amplifiers superfluous. The question would be if two SVS SB1000 pro are better than one Kef KC62. And no, two KC62s are not going to fit my budget :) The cheaper alternative is the Denon AVR-X1800H, combine that with the Kefs (or similar quality speakers), add 2x SVS SB1000 pro, and call it a day for around 4000 euro. Later on, upgrade to the Lyngdorf and perhaps upgrade the subwoofers.
Great review. Discovered you a few weeks ago and have enjoyed several of your reviews. I am telling audio friends to check you out. Your suggestion that the ultimate SQ achieved with the 3400 is dependent on speaker-matching, room specifics, etc is correct. But also, would you agree that the source gear will also affect the sound and might help the 3400’s “perfect” sound (using the 3400’s internal streamer) from being boring over the longer term. I currently use a 2170 (highly modded up by a technically skilled audiophile friend). Tomorrow I will receive a 3400 to assess for a few days with my Innuos Zenith Mk 3 (qobuz) and Audiovector R3 Arrete’s. I understand the user interface of the 3400 is significantly nicer and feature rich, but I hope it also sounds superior to my 2170. If it does and I buy it, I will have it modded up if possible. Finally, Lyngdorf’s abiltiy to easily and perfectly blend in a sub or subs (which I do not currently own, but may try later) using built-in electronic XO’s, is a very very smart feature which eliminates the often arduous task of manually blending subs.
Hello Richard. Thank you for watching and your kind remarks. You are spot on. The "color" is something that the source needs to add, and here the 3400 has higher spec inputs. The only weak point I find to be the power amps like I did on the 1120. They are powerful, but is it definitely the weakest point in service of the music, and where the age of the 3400 can be heard. Again, the flexibility shines here, as you could add (or experiment with,) another poweramp over time, and still use the powerful internal amps for say, driving some cool passive subs? It shares tech and build with the 2170, but adds the modern interface and software. If you can live without the streaming stuff, balanced output and slick interface, your 2170 will do 95% of the same job, if used as a preamp. Let us know what YOU learned playing with it!
@@stjernholmreviews A dealer has indicated the 2170 was an older amp (maybe made by someone else originally. TACT maybe?) minimally-modified by Lyngdorf whereas the 3400 is a 100% Lyngdforf design and is a 7-9 year newer design. Can you speak to that? He loves the 2170, but says in his shop even the 1120 sounds better that the 2170. He is cautious that maybe a 3400 will not sound markedly better that my 2170 due to the mods done to mine. The opinions regarding the SQ delta between the 2170 v 3400 are spit, which is why hearing it in my room is so beneficial to me. Finally, I and other 2170 owners I know have experimented with external amps connected to the pre out. Can you mention a couple of amps that might give a nice audible improvement connected to either the 2170 or the 3400? If the 3400 has XLR connections for an outboard amp would that potentially offer improved SQ vs the RCA-only outs on the 2170?
Great video, I bought the 1120 after watching your review from last year, I love it, just wish it had Tidal Connect. I use Roon, which is great, but don't use its functions enough to justify the subscription. I don't think Lyngdorf have any plans to update to Tidal Connect on the 1120. RP is easy to use, it works well with my LS50 Metas and KC62. Keep up the great work. I'm a total newbie to hifi and your videos are very informative, thx
No. It is a thing that becomes apparent in the longer run, originating from the power amplifier. It becomes especially obvious on great speakers in comparison with more expensive power amps like the Nuprime evolution ones (€8.000 for a pair, see the review on the channel) There is absolutely nothing wrong with with 3400, but the power amps are the weakest point. Question is, how much to expect at the price? Its not worse than a NAD M33. To me, the combination of using the 3400 as a preamplifier in combination with the nuprime amps, is simply heaven. As I suggest in the review, the 3400 amps can still be used to drive passive subwoofers in that case due to the versatility of the product.
@@stjernholmreviews thanks for the review. I do enjoy your content. I have recently moved from a marantz model 40n to the 3400. I really enjoyed the 40n sound but found I had to have it played at higher volumes to really enjoy it, which meant I couldn’t listen at night as much. The 3400 gives me this as well as the sub integration. I do miss the marantz but the room correction really helps my awkward home set up and the detail retrieval is great. I am able to listen to more music now. I was also wondering if creating a new curve would help improve the emotional impact. I am looking at new speakers within a 3k budget, either Zu, or maybe klipsh. If you have any recommendations that you think I could benefit from, I am listening. Hardware or how to educate myself on making the most of the the amp. I am new to all of this.
@@marc2901 Congratulations on the 3400 and thank you for watching the channel. It will leave you so much room for experimenting with stuff 🙂. The thing about listening at low volume, is all about our sensitivity to the low and high frequencies at low volume vs. higher volume. (Check the graphic in this wiki, and remember to support wikipedia too by donating!.) en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudness Here is a little except: "The sensitivity of the human ear changes as a function of frequency, as shown in the equal-loudness graph. Each line on this graph shows the SPL required for frequencies to be perceived as equally loud, and different curves pertain to different sound pressure levels. It also shows that humans with normal hearing are most sensitive to sounds around 2-4 kHz, with sensitivity declining to either side of this region. A complete model of the perception of loudness will include the integration of SPL by frequency" In part, you could make yourself a nice little "night listening" voicing filter, that would enhance your listening experience in detail when listening at low volumes. Basicly, just make a new voicing, use the low shelving (try 3 dB at 250 hz or lower) and high shelving (try 3 dB lift at 3500 hz) and experiment from there. Another way of doing it, is supressing the midrange, maybe using a peak filter -4dB around 2Khz, with a nice wide Q setting. Make both filters and experiment! In my experience, the amplification in itself can be more or less engaging subjectively at high or low volume. I cant explain it in technical terms, but a amp like The Marantz PA10, was not very engaging at lower volume compared to other amps in my ears.
@@stjernholmreviews Thank you for the review. Looking into the 3400 as a pre with the Nuprime EVO 1 power amps, if utilising this setup can still use dual subs also? Many thanks
Some people say you need room perfect to compensate for the basic sound of the amp. From my experience with the 1120 that is a perfect summation. Using the 1120 as just a source, the (to me) unpleasant basic sound remained.
@@stjernholmreviews Hi, I used Airplay and coax input from my usual Allo Digione Signature with linear power supply and AQ Carbon cable. I believe I ran the unit at Unity gain and controlled the volume with my Rega Aethos integrated. I didn’t try analog inputs from my regular DAC, as my understanding is that the 1120 would convert that signal to digital anyway. To be fair I did most all my testing with B&W 805. A last minute quick test with the Contour 20, seemed to suggest better synergy. I talked to someone literary the same day as I saw your video. He echoed my exact experience (you need RP for Lyngsorf amps to sound good) without me saying anything about having tried their amps, hence my post 😊 I don’t claim to be right, but that was just my experience, from having it at home for a few weeks and trying it in a few rooms. The other conclusion I made was the RP while less invasive to the sound than previous experience with Dirac, did not fix my room issues in the bass. I still need to try Dirac in my new home.
You should be fine using either one. There can be some advantages to TOSLINK as you get galvanic separation too, but I hear many preferring coaxial. As always, try both and see what you likes the best. The difference should be very subtle.
Kjære stjernholm! Danskene har alltid laget fantastisk hifi! Skulle gjerne hatt en Lyngdorf,men jeg vil få skattefogden på døren hvis jeg kjøper en! Kan de nye forsterker streamerne fra Yamaha, technics og maranz klare det samme?
Thank you for watching. Those are the M&K S-300. A powerful home cinema speaker. Closed cabinet, designed for use with sub. The instagram link in bio should work fine, sending you to the youtube channel, right? What link are you referring to?
Hej har du anmeldt lyngdorf surround processeren mp50, jeg kan forstå at du selv bruger den i din hjemmebio, kunne vildt godt tænke mig en sådan anmeldelse og høre hvordan room perfect virker med multi kanals filmlyd. Bring it on tak.
Svarer på engelsk af hensyn til de øvrige seere: Hello Benjamin. I have not really digged in to multichannel sound yet on the channel, but I want to. Maybe a review of the MP60 2.1? . I am a big fan though! Think of the Lyngdorf MP`s like a TDAI-3400 on steroids. The effects of roomperfect and also independent speaker EQ`s can not be understated for a very coherent sounding home cinema, and they keep making them better with frequent software updates! Feel free to write me on email. You find it on the channel "about page".
Hello Seb. Thank you for watching the channel! You are absolutely right. With the last update, TDAI-3400 got Airplay 2 added. I will add correction to the description.
🤣That would be the nerdiest competition ever, and just for the "room correcting" part. Convolution technology is great, but will never be user friendly. Agree? Thank you for watching the channel!!
I had 2 x Tact Millennium (12.000€ each) Lyngdorf amplifiers 15 years ago as Bi-amping but sold them after trying a integrated amplifier Gryphon diablo 250. It was night and day experience. The 2 expensive digital amplifier was so boring sounding on my Zingali client name 1.5 and they are really sensitive but has a 15inch woofer and 15 inch horn. Have not touched digital amplifiers since
I follow your reasoning, and yes some digital amplifiers can have a fatiguing quality to them. But dont let one (old) experience define your opinion. So much has happened in that field since, and there is some very capable switching amps and digital amps out there. The Technics SE-R1 comes to mind as a extremely sweet sounding analogish digital amp. I am currently listening to a Diablo 300, so I am feeling you on the organic musical quality it brings to the chain. BTW, I love using the 3400 as a pre-amp / processor, bypassing the built in amps all together. Keep listening!
@stjernholmreviews you are right. How do you like Hegel H600 compared to Diablo 300? The difference and strength of both amplifiers in terms of sound. Witch one has the most bass control and transparency and dynamics and musicality?
2:25 no idea why more stereo amps don't have HDMI inputs, they act like people with high end stereo's only use them for vinyl and nothing else, god forbid someone with a nice Hi-fi system might want to watch a movie on it!!!
Hello William, and thank you for watching! HDMI is pretty complex, often also support heavy with tons of compability issues, becomes obsolete fast, and thus hard to do well! Thats why amp manufactures tries to avoid it in general. Naturally, it is only suited amps that has digital interfaces as well.
Oddi, thank you for watching the channel, AND JUST LISTEN! You might also want to pay attention to the segment about the poweramp of the 3400 that I call out as the weak point (also see my video on the 1120, where I have the same conclusion). It does not take away from the amp, that nothing else comes close all the way to the power amp. It makes it a pretty interesting value proposition in combination with your poweramp of choice. If you know of ANY product that could compare feature/functionality wise, let us know.
@@stjernholmreviews Thank you for the response. At the end of the day, as audiophiles the question we ask ourselves is, is it worth the $7K price tag. Absolutely not! Just a piece of snob furniture.
@@rogerIndianKing I totally disagree on that. Even viewed as a pre-amp only, I think it is worth every penny, and offers very musical solutions to all the issues you might face in a home environment. Nobody has anything like it, that actually makes all this tech so accessible. So trying to define it as snobbery is totally missing the mark, IMO. Again, by the end of the day - what alternatives that can do what this thing does can you point at? Snobbery to me, is when somebody pays 10 fold for goldplated exterior. This is not the case here, where we have a very unique, refined and user friendly DSP, that both enables everybody to get the most from the speakers in their room, as well as making the user experience great. The R&D and software alone must have been a huge effort to do. So again. What are the products out there that justifies your argument?
@@stjernholmreviews Even viewed as pre-amp only? Now I am totally confused. Most non-audiophile audience is listening to digital music out there from Spotify etc,. A matching DAC with a decent power Amp would suffice their needs. For audiophiles who are into Vinyl and stuff, if we really break this down, there are much better options even working with $4k option. I wouldn't recommend this product to your average Joe out there.
Pretty sure I saw that Amir ripped it a new one, so to say. Lots of folks say gear that measures well or almost perfectly often sounds poor. I’m not saying this because I’ve not set out to acquire a piece that measures great in order to evaluate its SQ. But, if gear that measures well sounds fantastic such that something that sells for 1/10 of higher-priced product (I’ve read Amir has found such dacs, for example) actually sounds better than the poor-measuring 10X (or 3x or 5x), why wouldn’t all or most manufacturers simply make gear that measures well? If there is a causal relationship between measurements and wonderful SQ, that is. Problem solved. Do large companies whose gear measures poorly lack the technical design acumen or wherewithal to source from the suppliers used by the makers of perfect measuring inexpensive gear? Seems unlikely. It would be interesting to turn the table. Collect a few pieces of gear that no one has measured. Audition them. AFTER the “measurements crowd” chooses what they think sounds best, measure the pieces. See if they picked the best-measuring.
@@richardcloud9265 Did he test this...lol? He is really cranking out the data now...wow. It's a good thing. Why do they make gear that is 10 times more expensive...when there is comparable or even better gear cheaper....money. I think the manufacturers and engineers have always known the power of suggestion...and marketing bells and whistles...has always been easy...no matter the product. Add in the terrific maxim by Twain...'It's a lot easier to fool people...than for people to admit they have been fooled'. Now I am not saying all of this is deliberate...i think the manufacturers can easily fool themselves as well...their ear lies to them...and there is simply no way to check that. Everyone lies to themselves at times... So intentional or not...what does seem to be fairly obvious with high end gear...the designs are pretty flawless...but testing is sparse once the project is assembled. Worse...if it is tested...and released. Listening is important...but highly subjective...and more importantly susceptible to a variety of things that has nothing to do with the signal. Looks...room acoustics...price...panache...brand name...all color the brain and ear. Throw in marketing...and the audiophile is a moving target...with or without the best of intentions. It s a bit ironic that a noob in Best Buy is less likely to waste coin on gear relative in cost to the expert audiophile...who with all the extra experience...time invested...apparently for the last few dacades...routinely gets picked clean....and most never realize it. Irony. Amir is rocking some boats...because he has hit upon a hard truth in the high end industry...which brings us back to Mark Twain.
@@JACKnJESUS Yeah I’m pretty sure he tested it. I stumbled over it a week ago or so. I was surprised. He said a guy loaned it to him. I appreciate that you didn’t take my post as affront. It wasn’t. You make excellent points re: human nature, how easy it is to be fooled (by others or one’s self) in audio. However, I didn’t ask why a co might charge 10x. I think that is covered by the expression, “nice work if you can get it”. I asked why those companies don’t make their gear measure well (like the inexpensive stuff Amir, for instance, presents) if the supposition is that good measurements = good SQ. Why would they create a headwind to market acceptance/winning deep-pocketed customers by bucking such a straight-forward design principle? Then they could figure out how to raise the perceived value of their widget through marketing, cosmetics, etc. as all makers of higher-priced widgets do. But to make a poor quality piece that measures poorly makes no sense IF, IF one believes poor measurements = poor sound. Obviously, I am casting doubt on the premise of poor measurements = poor sound, but only thru a thought exercise. To reiterate, I don’t measure. My question does not apply to those companies who, as you suggest, are not purposely making poor-sounding gear to sells at 10x, but rather have fooled themselves into believing their bad-sounding gear sounds great. And I’m pretty sure that happens as I know dealers who’ve decried well-known, high-priced pieces that sound sounds shockingly bad. Not often, but it happens. I actually don’t visit ASR. But I wonder if there are several (or any) examples of high-priced pieces that have measured beautifully. Again, thanks for your nicely laid out reply.
@@richardcloud9265 Amir could probably answer better than I ever could...and probably others as well. I did see where one of Amir's analyzers goes to the tune of somewhere around 200k. Luckily he owned that from a long ago business project...great for the audio world. His speaker analyzer cost over 100k...so...that's 300k for just two pieces...for testing. I think the answer is before us. Companies do test their gear...some of them. I would also think from an engineering standpoint...and attitude...they are confident in their designs. They have been doing it for years...people have been buying them...why measure? The ears do all of the filtering for them already...makes it easier to do nothing. And until recently....no one was doing much checking....certainly any checking was done in house...and fixed quietly...hopefully. Yes, there is high end gear that tests extremely well on ASR...the usual suspects...Pass Labs...Benchmark. Benchmark has the AHB2...sinad of 113...ridiculously clean amp...for 3k. There are a ton of folks out there who were talked into, or talked themselves into much higher priced gear....that won't even get close to that Benchmark. Yes...tests are surprising over there...it's always a surprise...which is half the fun. Obvious looking winners bite the dust...other dark horses rear out of nowhere...like Topping...Amir never heard of them...and yet. EDIT: It's been a pleasure conversing with you.
The review we’ve all been waiting for
Excellent. I like that you don’t use sound memory.
You have actual components , to compare these products.
Excellent video
Surprised that nobody has commented on the fact that the review scores at the end of the video are covered by overlapping youtube suggested videos?? Unbelievable.
Thanks for letting me know. You would be surprised about the attention span of the average viewer :-)
Great review! It would be very nice to hear your opinion…I have the 1120+ KEF R3 Meta and I would like to know if changing to the 3400 would make a noticeable impact in sound quality. Many thanks
I often get that question. The 1120 is a bit more grainy sounding, primarily coming from the power amps. In general, I think the longevity of the sound of the poweramps is their weakest point. That said, the 3400 is higher spec. The converter and theoretical resolution is higher. If you are not using the line out of the 1120 for subwoofers or other things, try playing around with hooking up another power amp and see if it makes a musical difference to you. I routinely use the 3400 and 1120 as pre-amp processors and think they are like nothing else in terms of functionality. I dont think you need any extra power with the R3`s.
Great review, I'm seriously looking at the Lyngdorf TDAI-3400... The only other room correction system I've seen that is similar is the one by Trinnov which is in the 10's of thousands and it measures everything in frequency and time domain (it looks like roomperfect does the same kind of measurements more affordably, as going for Trinnov and the likes of Marantz PM10 would be pretty steep)... In any case I'm very impressed with the Lyngdorf.
Hi Adam. Thank you for watching the channel!
I think what makes the lyngdorf so great, is the user experience first of foremost. They seem to have been prioritizing things very much towards user friendliness and easy to get usable results, but all the room correction stuff is totally "siloed" and hidden, so you cant see what is being done....but you can "Just listen", witch is often much better. The results RP makes with their approach almost always results in a very musical presentation with very good, neutral bass definition. Trinnov have a very different approach, as they come / are from the professional world. Their processors was developed for studio use first, and they work as you correctly state also in the time - phase domain, and use a special microphone for this. Everything can be tweaked, but it is very easy to get lost for a HIFI audiophile that has no deep knowledge of audio engineering. Lyngdorf works by measuring the frequency response in the listening position, and then the power response in the room, witch negative effects can then be subtracted.
They also apply a musical tilt it seems. It's a fully automated way (besides your setup settings that you have to get right, of course) process, that produces a focus listening preset and a "global" preset, that is best for casual listening out of the focus position. You can even measure more than one position (also true for trinnov). As a package, I can not give a better recommendation than the 3400. It is brilliant for what it does in favor of the music. Only thing that I criticise is the power amps, that seems to be boring in the longer run. When/if that point is reached, - then change that by using the 3400 as a preamp instead, and experiment with other power amp combos. That gave it a whole new gear in my reference setup, where I simply return to this very amp for all its ease of use and deep functionality that can cover actually everything at the same time. At this price point it is hard to point to anything else, that can do what the 3400 does as a "package" that you will love to use.
@@stjernholmreviews Wow, such a detailed answer!
Which features in the 3400 make you choose it over the 1120 in the preamp setup? Looking into this seriously myself.
@@peterschaldemose7861 It has balanced outputs, AND the digital output, meaning that you could use it as a preamp, AND still add two subwoofers. Heck, the built in poweramp is so powerful that it would be driving passive woofers if needs be. The flexibility is unbeatable in that regard. Thank you for watching the channel!!
I have TDAI 3400 through DALI epicon 6. There are several "voices" that the TDAI 3400 can use to produce warmer sounds, and you can even make your own profiles. it seems this review used only the "neutral" voice setting, but there are several others including 2 music settings
:-). Then you did not watch the entire review. I talk in detail about voicings. The 3400 Is actually very powerfull in this regard. Not only can you do your own refined voicings, but you also have the same filters avaliable for individual speaker EQ BEFORE Room Perfect is applied. Its really a powerhouse, thus being called the most advanced integrated amplifier in the world here. I am planning doing a deep dive video, showcasing the vast possibilities of this super-amp. Anything particular you have been wondering about?
Another great review! Thank you! How big is the difference in sound quality between the TDAI-3400 and the TDAI-1120 as a preamp + a good poweramp? I got the idea from your review and bought a NAD C298 power amp for the TDAI-1120. It was a great idea, by the way, because it significantly improved the sound.
Hello Mr. Nagy! Thank you for watching the channel and commenting so kindly!
The difference depends really on how you plan to use it, what your sources are?
If only using the built in streamer, there wont be much difference. But if you add high quality analog components and connect those analog, then the higher grade input converters on the 3400 will make a sonic difference.
Keep experimenting, and let us know your discoveries!
A great and thorough review. RoomPerfect really made a welcome improvement in my setup with B&W 804s towers. Although I thought my room was quite good to begin with, the TDAI 2170 really made it sound warmer and more easy on the ears with a nice tight bass. Acoustic instruments and vocals sound spot on! Hilsner fra Vedbæk:)
"easy on the ears" is a very good description. When the speaker/room combination needs it, there is really nothing that can compare. Try your 2170, with a alternative power amplifier to explore next level sound with the 804 speakers 🙂. THANK YOU FOR WATCHING THE CHANNEL!
@@stjernholmreviews Thanks for the suggestion. I will try it sometime. For now I'll have to save my money until I know how expensive the heating bills will be this coming winter...
Another fantastic review. I’ve had my 1120 running Dyn C2’s and a pair of subs now for around 6 months to see if RP was for me and to learn what Lyngdorf can do for me at the bargain level so now its time to upgrade to the 3400. In the past I’ve had the whole audiophile attitude of “ don’t alter anything, no tone controls no nothing” approach but our rooms are the biggest issue in audio that cant be tamed by basic product without technology or hit and miss acoustic treatments at silly money. Room Perfect is absolutely fantastic as is the voicing’s so you can revisit and enjoy your older recordings and artists that didn’t have the technology of today when they recorded so were left discarded.For anyone thinking about the 1120?at it’s price point it’s a no brainer, IMO beats everything at its price point and would be all you need for most people I would think. The 3400 is clearly just that next level again. Cheers !
GDUBYA, Thank you for the kind words! I totally agree with your reasoning. Let us know how you like the 3400 in your setup! Share your experience here!
@@stjernholmreviews
Very nice review.
After your reviews I decided to replace my streamer and my DAC by TDAI-1120 and connect it as a DAC to my Naim SuperNait 3 integrated amplifier.
I tried this combination and
RoomPerfect made a major improvement .
Now I think about TDAI-3400.
Which combination you think is better -
Tdai-1120 plus SuperNait 3 or use only TDAI-3400? Thanks a lot in advance
@@haimsheffer5066 Haim, that must be totally up to you to decide. The 3400 has more features, is better built, more connectivity and better DACs. The amps are much more powerful, but might not be what you are looking for. Get hold of one and try it. Compare it with the Naim amps and hear what works best for you. Its the only way to know. Its your music!
@@stjernholmreviews
Thanks a lot.
Let me explain. I can achieve same room correction if I use 1120 or 3400. Correct ?
Then which option would be better as per your view?
I know I need to try but I would like to know your opinion.
Let me write it in different way. Let us suppose my room is perfect from acoustic point of view. And I use turntable input only. Which amp would you choose ?
This was a great 👍🏿 review, and I must say as for my listening taste, along with my love of all things multi-faceted, I definitely plan on giving this an audition. However, I must say that while watching your review, I was reminded of another reviews(Andrew Robinson)subjective opinions on a similar product, the NAD M33. He too, said that amp was perfect, neutral in its presentation, yet ultimately called it boring. After watching your video I find the similarities. interesting, as other reviews that I have seen of both products, particularly those done by reviewers who lean more into hometheater, LOVE these amps for the exact same reasons. I credit you for saying that "perfection" can be a "double edged sword", but your ultimate response got me to thinking 🤔; why the divide? From what I have observed, it seems that a lot of two channel enthusiasts. reviewing these amps, were somewhat disappointed in that the amp didn't function as tome control, while conversely, those reviewers coming from hometheater backgrounds, were thrilled that the M33 and the 3400, "got out of the way" of the music, and upstream or downstream sources. I was always under the impression, that the amplifier was supposed to amplify the signal fed to it, and if possible be load invariant, 🤔. I guess I did not realize how many people purchase amps looking for them to alter(compliment) the sound of their music, speakers, etc. And with so many "alterations" to the signal potentially taking place, how does one even know, or go about discovering what their gear, and more importantly, source materials sound like? I thank you for your time and efforts in your reviews, as I really enjoy them, please keep up the great work, and stay safe.
Hello Isaac and thank for watching! Your comment is one of the best ones I have seen yet, and opens up a really important discussion. Musical enjoyment is something that can be judged to be "correct" or "not-correct" as the response is in the ears of the listener. Thats why I talk a lot about my personal preferences that is all about realism and truth, collateral damage from all my years in professional audio as a engineer and post production mixer (tv, movies, trailers, mastering).
Your point is very valid. In high quality home cinema (and multichannel music) setups, you tend to go for realism, scale and headroom in a complete "sphere" around the listener. Subwoofers are in place to create even more headroom, and standards for playback levels exists to ensure that what was done on the mixing stage, can be accurately replicated in another theater. .. Thus, there is one correct way of reproducing the film soundtrack,... and that is how it sounded at the mixing stage 🙂.
With music, the picture is very different. It is (or should be IMO) be about how it makes you FEEL. For many audiophiles, a lot (we can argue too much) of that feeling can be tied up in beliefs, earlier preferences, memories of uncles 3" full tone, tube driven HIFI he said was the best and so on..) or the very insecure ones obsesses over how things "meassure".
At the last HIFI show i attended, the best musical experience was some harbeth speakers with some manley tube year and a turntable playing a old Nina Simone record. The sound had a lot of soul... On the other hand, I KNOW how that recording sounds, and this system had none of that, but it provided a "translation" that was very seductive and definetely not "correct" at all. The fascinating part is, that the gear probably measures fine, and no one can fully understand what makes us feel in a certain way,. Maybe the lightning in the room also had something to do with it.
The best thing any audiophile can do, is to JUST LISTEN and trust those things on each side of your head. There is no such thing as right or wrong when it comes to how music playback makes you feel. There is only a whole lot of lack of experience and perspective, a thing I try to help with in my professional work.
Again, thank you for contributing, I hope this will be a interesting thread!
@@stjernholmreviews I really appreciate your honesty and perspective, thank you very much for your response. I love the fact that you referenced the nostalgia aspect of this discussion. I have mentioned that before, that I do believe that how we first experience music in a way that touches us, will be the way that we will prefer to hear it again, having already associated a good memory to it. I guess it's the pragmatist in me, or maybe the music/movie lover, that's held on to the notion of if I like or enjoy a piece of art, or artist, the more I want to experience their work as "accurately" as possible, and I say this as someone who has cried to music playing from a clock radio, and was equally as moved when I heard/saw it performed live.
I will be honest in saying that as I have experienced different DACs, and other pieces of gear, speakers, etc. things that may have extracted more information from a piece of audio, that I have found it more enjoyable, excited to have heard something different, but I have never not danced, cried, and or otherwise enjoyed art that I liked, unless of course, the needle scratched, the cd/blu ray skipped, or the radio/ digital signal dropped, with the only variation in my enjoyment directly correlating with the attenuation of the volume 😀 😉 👍🏿! Thank you again, and please continue your great work, and I eagerly look forward to more reviews and hopefully more discussions. That said, I feel like you should post your original response somewhere on your community board or at the beginning of your videos, as I feel it was kind, comprehensive, and brilliant and reads like a mission statement for the unpretentious audiophile (TM) lol! Until next time, Be safe, my friend.
@@isaacsykes3 Its a great idea for a inspirational video, Isaac! Anything to add?
@Stjernholm Reviews First, thank you for reading and responding to my question/comment. What I would add is actually another question. In your opinion, how much of what we enjoy in HiFi or hometheater is brought about by nostalgia 🤔? Either from recalling the sound of their parents' stereo, or their frequently going to live shows which in the case of latter if the venue wasn't purely acoustic, then I would believe that they were actually hearing the P.A. system the music was played through. I ask because from what I've observed, is that those who listeners tend to be more critical of amplifiers like the M33, Benchmark, or others that aspire for a flat or neutral sound. Then there's the question of how music should even be projected in the room. Maybe, I'm too literal for this hobby, but I would think that an accurate sound stage would be one the emmenates from behind the speakers, as opposed to being "forward" if for no other reason, than just the linear structure of a recording, if we were watching it live, i.e. band/vocalist > microphone > audience. The point is that artists would appear or be seen behind the speakers in the reproduction of that event. Thus, I would believe that the soundstage would/should demonstrate that. Those are my thoughts. However, we are here to hear what you have to say, and I humbly thank you for indulging me. I look forward to your future content and hope that you stay safe and blessed.
Wonderfull review, thx. After it I am considering purchasing 3400, will they fit with my Dynaudio Focus 340 speakers? Currently using Yamaha RN803D but some power is missing and beside there is no Tidal connect or Chromcast features which are available on 3400.
I think it is a very complete package, especially if you want to experiment with things, and want access to sound shaping tools. Another reason would be less than optimal speaker placement in a not so perfect room. Lastly, I find the daily user experience among the best in the industry. Only thing I always end up wishing for in the LONG run.. is the power amps. They are powerful, but there is something about the sound, that is not making me love them in the LONG run. Not everyone will agree, of course. But that is my experience.
I dont know of anything that comes close to the level of software and daily user experience that "just works" these things packs.
Thank you for watching the channel, and thank you for commenting.
Many thx for your reply. How about going directly to streamer + amplifier. Anything to recommend to pair with Focus 340?
Thank you, great info here. i was considering spl active analogue crossover, would this be a step up in purity on the 1120, or even 3400?
Everything will be done in the digital domain, so yes. But remember, they cant do 3 way crossover, if that is what you are after. The crossover functionality is intended for subwoofers. With the 3400 you get more purity .
@@stjernholmreviews thank you for your superfast reply
Thanks for a more detailed review...... I am new to Lyngdorf brand and its very interesting to learn more about them. I was doing some research and some of the online articles say that Micromega 150 is the best in this price segment. Any suggestion on this ??
From what I can tell, you dont get anywhere near the features and functionality of the 3400 with the micromega. What is the price of it?
The Lyngdorf is my favorite choise right now, but i dont really think that it can handle my Dynaudio Special Forty.. what do you think?
HI Paul, it will grab them hard by the balls and make absolutely most out of them. 😃 The special forty is not so efficient, so you will make good use of the 3400 power, and if you ever feel like adding more low end and power, you can easily add a dynaudio subwoofer (or two) to the mix.
Why wouldn't a 400W amp @ 4 ohms with exceptional current handling (40A continuous) be able to drive a set of compacts? Mine certainly beats the shit out of my B&W 3-way towers with 3 bass drivers. I'm nowhere close to maxing the amp out when the bass drivers are near maximum excursion.
Let's take another scenario; my 84dB sensitivity rated B&W compacts that I use for my gaming desktop are driven by a NAD amp with 2x150W - I have to be very careful not to blow the midbass drivers since the amp easily overpowers them.
TLDR: yes, the 3400 would lock your Dynaudios in a tight vice and never let go. In fact, it would probably be way more amp than you need in that scenario.
Superb review and while I think you kind of answered my question in your video I'll still ask :D
My setup is already quite ok but I want to do some room correction and therefore the Lyngdorfs look to be a good option. Currently, I have a Bel Canto Black EX preamp/DAC and a Bel Canto Black Dual mono amp. I don't really do anything else than Spotify Connect and TV sound with optical. Would it be possible to use either the 1120 or the 3400 only for Room Perfect and would it make a difference choosing one over the other? I'll be running two REL subs low-pass as well. I don't really need AirPlay 2 support or Tidal Connect though it would be nice since the Bel Canto does not have this.
Hi magnus. If you would like to use a lyngdorf as a processor "in between" and also want to add subs, you would need the 3400.
Great product from Lyngdorf.
Is it worthwhile to switch out the Buchardt Audio I150 for the Lyngdorf TDAI-3400 to pair with the Buchardt Audio S400 MKII? I do also use a pair of SVS SB3000 with the S400 MKII. Thanks.
Currently, yes!
Hey Man thanks for the best reviews of both Lyngdorfs (TDAI 1120 and 3400) on youtube:)
Because you've compared both I have some questions :)
Personally Ive got my own TDAI 1120 couple months ago (currently running my Klipsch RF 7 III ) and would like to use it as a preamp with some Parasound amp ( dreaming aboout JC5 ) and Ive heard/ read that because of the digital nature of Lyngdorf amp and its different output sensivity ( different than most nondigital amps) it can make some strange noises/hiss while making such connection...have You heard anything about it??
My second question. If 3400 has better dac( but not streamer? ) does that mean that streaming the same song from Tidal or spotify it will obviously sound better on 3400 than 1120??? and also what do You think about the quality of that streamer built in Lyngdorf ? would buying a separate stremer make an impact on the music quality? im asking because since Lyngdorf 1120 got an update for Tidal Hifi I cannot really hear the difference between the Spotify and Tidal Master and actually its frustrating for me:/
Dude!! Thats a lot to ask at once 🙂. 1120 -> to another power amp. No problem. You can even adjust the output gain in the 1120 if the power amp ypu want to use has a very sensitive input. Thats what can cause some hiss if the levels are mismatched. Spotify vs Tidal vs frustration: Good for you! Dont worry, and enjoy the music. I find that it really depends on what music and type of recordings you are listening to, and the resolution of the system you play on and for how long.. Tim & I have done quite deep listening tests with DSD material converted to AAC 256kps and A/B blind tested it... It takes prolonged listening to FEEL the difference on a high resolution system. Even we, trained professional sound engineers can`t necessarily pick the difference right away if proper level compensated. There is no immediate frequency balance change or anything like that to "catch", but prolonged listening will reveal psychoacoustic compression types, as well as certain types of music with very large dynamic range, and very quiet detailed passages. Your klipsch RF7s is very efficient. They do really not need a more powerful amplifier, depending on how crazy loud you want to get. They can produce 105 dB SPL in 4 metre distance with only 60 watts, no problem. Thats the peak levels cinemas are designed to deliver at the listening position! Adding more power, should only be if the listening distance is longer than that, or if you want to get unhealthy loud for some reason having to do with you wanting to go deaf 🙂. Depending on your preferences, even a moderate tube amp could drive them to healthy levels.
Streaming wise, the 3400 and 1120 uses the same platform, but the DAC is different. You can hear that, even when just used as a preamp. Again, depending on your music. I am curious. What kind of music do you consume on those RF7?
A external streamer will only give you very subtle differences to the internal streamer, and you will love to have the streamer integrated in the app, instead of using several apps.
If you dont feel satisfied with your sound, start with the room and speaker placement. THANK YOU FOR WATCHING THE CHANNEL and your kind words. Much appreciated!
Awesome review.Thx to your review I bought the 1120. It is wonderful as a preamp, the app and RP are absolutely great. For the cons, i can confirm the weird hiss, when use as a preamp,I tried to change the output gain, but the noise still remains. I intend to buy a high end power amp to increase SQ, as for the moment i have an integrated which i use as a power amp through av bypass. I wonder if after purchasing the power amp, the 3400 would be a worthy upgrade due to its balanced output? Maybe also for the digital out that enables you to connect a high end source/dac? Once again, thx a lot for excellent reviews for both 1120 and 3400👍👍
Great review, thank you.
Thanks for watching!
awesome really great review, i do have a question though... If the tdai 3400 runs 2 subwoofers via the rca outs on the back, can it also be run to monoblock poweramplifiers via the XLR balanced outputs to the monoblocks for example, to run the PS Audio M1200 which have a tube and digital section for varying sound?... Essentially I would want to use it as a preamplifier/DAC and streamer and just run it to the monoblocks and also have 2 powered subs running out of the rca's would such a setup work?
Great Question. The answer is no, unfortunately. You can use the XLRs and then drive passive subwoofers with the build in amps. This is 100%. I am currently investigating the XLR / RCA relationship, as it seems like the RCA out cant be used for preamp duties, but only for subs (not at the same time as XLR).. Will get back on that. THANK YOU FOR WATCHING THE CHANNEL!
@@stjernholmreviews Thanks for that, the only other thing I could think of would be the digital RCA out on the back of the Lyngdorf 3400, could you run a Y cable from that to the two RCA inputs on the monoblocks? Hence keeping the RCA Analog outs for the subs?
@@howtomakeyourownmusic8084 Yes, you can always use the digital coax for everything independently of the XLR. But in that case, you would need a external DAC. (Its a digital signal, both channels in one). If you go that route, I would use the Digital out for the "pre-amp" function with a great DAC, and then use the XLR (or RCAs) to drive the subs.
@@stjernholmreviews It certainly is confusing isn't it, I asked Lyngdorf the same question and they told me NOT to use a "Y" cable to run from the digital RCA out to both poweramps, instead they said the poweramps should have a digital in and then a pass through to the other (assuming these are monoblocks) and a switch on the back of them to tell the unit which side is running Left and Right... But for the life of me I cannot find any monoblocks that have this digital passthrough port on the back of them LOL... Are you aware of any decent monoblocks like the PS Audio M1200 (or even their BHK higher end version) that have this digital passthrough which Lyngdorf was talking about?... All they could mention was to run to their SDA 2400 which is a "single unit" stereo poweramp and really no advantage of running it on the TDAI 3400 as the power wattage is the same?... I would certainly like to see Lyngdorf come out with a LARGER more capable poweramp or even monoblocks that do what they say other monoblocks should... As I would really love to hear the 3400 with poweramp monoblocks and a tube input stage like in the PS Audio M1200's but this apparently cannot be done, especially with 2 subwoofers in the mix... It's ashame becuase it's a FANTASTIC unit, I LOVE mine!
@@stjernholmreviews If you go the digital out route and XLR (or RCA's) for the 2 subs, what settings need to be adjusted in the Lyngdorf software and the necessary adjustments? So you would essentially be using the TDAI 3400 as the streamer and Room Perfect module and central unit to run the 2 subs only, then digital RCA out to a "pre-amp" function and great DAC (so a pre-amp / DAC) and then from that out to monoblocks? There's apparently no instructions on this in the manual, some great content for you Stjernholm to do a video on using the TDAI 3400 as a seperate unit to run external monoblocks and separate DAC / Pre amps, I would certainly enjoy seeing that as I'm at my wits end with trying to work this out :-)
I'm just wondering about the 1120 in a large room (my living area includes the open kitchen and is 15m long and 5.5m wide by 2.6m high). It seems underpowered for that space. The 3400 looks like a better fit but I'm still a bit worried about the ability to output sound at sufficient volume. I don't need loud music but I want to hear it in the entire room.
So.. in my case I think the 1120 as pre-amp, with a beefy amp behind it, would be a better fit than the 3400.
@StCreed I cant say anything without the context of the speakers. Say you just wanted to drive a pair of Klipsch Cornwall IV`s ? You would have all the output with a 1120. But if the speakers are not that efficient, and needs loads of current - you might be underpowered. In reality, the difference between 100 and 200 watts is only 3dB. If you are playing dynamic music recordings, you can easily call for 20dB. So in essence, getting the right speaker for your style, room size and SPL needs is more important than the often little output differences in wattage on the amps.
With the 1120, you could also go for a setup driving some great smaller speakers you like, and then add two powerful subwoofers for corner placement. Check out the Cue-100 video for more on how that stuff works here: th-cam.com/video/V_G0t2PmDVI/w-d-xo.html&si=tlXDHywQHUcDF9x8
@@stjernholmreviews I was actually thinking about bookshelf speakers, like the Kef R3 meta, Dali Rubikore 2, Focal Aria 906 k2 ltd ed. or similar sized speakers. The living room furniture is changing and the large floorstanders have to go. And my bass goes with it I fear :)
At the moment I'm leaning towards an SVS SB2000 pro or Kef KC62 for extra power in the region until around 200 Hz, which should make extra amplifiers superfluous.
The question would be if two SVS SB1000 pro are better than one Kef KC62. And no, two KC62s are not going to fit my budget :)
The cheaper alternative is the Denon AVR-X1800H, combine that with the Kefs (or similar quality speakers), add 2x SVS SB1000 pro, and call it a day for around 4000 euro. Later on, upgrade to the Lyngdorf and perhaps upgrade the subwoofers.
Great review. Discovered you a few weeks ago and have enjoyed several of your reviews. I am telling audio friends to check you out.
Your suggestion that the ultimate SQ achieved with the 3400 is dependent on speaker-matching, room specifics, etc is correct. But also, would you agree that the source gear will also affect the sound and might help the 3400’s “perfect” sound (using the 3400’s internal streamer) from being boring over the longer term. I currently use a 2170 (highly modded up by a technically skilled audiophile friend). Tomorrow I will receive a 3400 to assess for a few days with my Innuos Zenith Mk 3 (qobuz) and Audiovector R3 Arrete’s. I understand the user interface of the 3400 is significantly nicer and feature rich, but I hope it also sounds superior to my 2170. If it does and I buy it, I will have it modded up if possible.
Finally, Lyngdorf’s abiltiy to easily and perfectly blend in a sub or subs (which I do not currently own, but may try later) using built-in electronic XO’s, is a very very smart feature which eliminates the often arduous task of manually blending subs.
Hello Richard. Thank you for watching and your kind remarks.
You are spot on. The "color" is something that the source needs to add, and here the 3400 has higher spec inputs.
The only weak point I find to be the power amps like I did on the 1120. They are powerful, but is it definitely the weakest point in service of the music, and where the age of the 3400 can be heard.
Again, the flexibility shines here, as you could add (or experiment with,) another poweramp over time, and still use the powerful internal amps for say, driving some cool passive subs?
It shares tech and build with the 2170, but adds the modern interface and software. If you can live without the streaming stuff, balanced output and slick interface, your 2170 will do 95% of the same job, if used as a preamp. Let us know what YOU learned playing with it!
@@stjernholmreviews A dealer has indicated the 2170 was an older amp (maybe made by someone else originally. TACT maybe?) minimally-modified by Lyngdorf whereas the 3400 is a 100% Lyngdforf design and is a 7-9 year newer design. Can you speak to that? He loves the 2170, but says in his shop even the 1120 sounds better that the 2170. He is cautious that maybe a 3400 will not sound markedly better that my 2170 due to the mods done to mine. The opinions regarding the SQ delta between the 2170 v 3400 are spit, which is why hearing it in my room is so beneficial to me.
Finally, I and other 2170 owners I know have experimented with external amps connected to the pre out. Can you mention a couple of amps that might give a nice audible improvement connected to either the 2170 or the 3400? If the 3400 has XLR connections for an outboard amp would that potentially offer improved SQ vs the RCA-only outs on the 2170?
Great video, I bought the 1120 after watching your review from last year, I love it, just wish it had Tidal Connect. I use Roon, which is great, but don't use its functions enough to justify the subscription. I don't think Lyngdorf have any plans to update to Tidal Connect on the 1120. RP is easy to use, it works well with my LS50 Metas and KC62. Keep up the great work. I'm a total newbie to hifi and your videos are very informative, thx
Thanks for sharing
Tidal and MQA are a bit of a scam and ought to be boycotted. It add nothing unless you have extremely slow internet connection.
Oh, and the 1120 got Tidal connect now... Evolution always with those guys.. Gotta love it.
@@stjernholmreviews Fantastic, they obviously listen to their customers.
I would have loved to have a new Lyngdorf 2200 seris amp. That the 3400 doesnt have HDMI as standard is just silly at the pricepoint imo.
That really depends on how you value what it is BEFORE the HDMI is added. Its extremely capable, and the module allows for future updates.
Could you mitigate some of the "dullness"/correctness of sound of the 3400 with some manually created dips and peeks in the frequency response curve?
No. It is a thing that becomes apparent in the longer run, originating from the power amplifier. It becomes especially obvious on great speakers in comparison with more expensive power amps like the Nuprime evolution ones (€8.000 for a pair, see the review on the channel) There is absolutely nothing wrong with with 3400, but the power amps are the weakest point. Question is, how much to expect at the price? Its not worse than a NAD M33. To me, the combination of using the 3400 as a preamplifier in combination with the nuprime amps, is simply heaven. As I suggest in the review, the 3400 amps can still be used to drive passive subwoofers in that case due to the versatility of the product.
@@stjernholmreviews thanks for the review. I do enjoy your content.
I have recently moved from a marantz model 40n to the 3400. I really enjoyed the 40n sound but found I had to have it played at higher volumes to really enjoy it, which meant I couldn’t listen at night as much.
The 3400 gives me this as well as the sub integration. I do miss the marantz but the room correction really helps my awkward home set up and the detail retrieval is great. I am able to listen to more music now.
I was also wondering if creating a new curve would help improve the emotional impact. I am looking at new speakers within a 3k budget, either Zu, or maybe klipsh. If you have any recommendations that you think I could benefit from, I am listening. Hardware or how to educate myself on making the most of the the amp. I am new to all of this.
@@marc2901 Congratulations on the 3400 and thank you for watching the channel. It will leave you so much room for experimenting with stuff 🙂. The thing about listening at low volume, is all about our sensitivity to the low and high frequencies at low volume vs. higher volume. (Check the graphic in this wiki, and remember to support wikipedia too by donating!.) en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudness
Here is a little except: "The sensitivity of the human ear changes as a function of frequency, as shown in the equal-loudness graph. Each line on this graph shows the SPL required for frequencies to be perceived as equally loud, and different curves pertain to different sound pressure levels. It also shows that humans with normal hearing are most sensitive to sounds around 2-4 kHz, with sensitivity declining to either side of this region. A complete model of the perception of loudness will include the integration of SPL by frequency"
In part, you could make yourself a nice little "night listening" voicing filter, that would enhance your listening experience in detail when listening at low volumes. Basicly, just make a new voicing, use the low shelving (try 3 dB at 250 hz or lower) and high shelving (try 3 dB lift at 3500 hz) and experiment from there. Another way of doing it, is supressing the midrange, maybe using a peak filter -4dB around 2Khz, with a nice wide Q setting. Make both filters and experiment!
In my experience, the amplification in itself can be more or less engaging subjectively at high or low volume. I cant explain it in technical terms, but a amp like The Marantz PA10, was not very engaging at lower volume compared to other amps in my ears.
@@stjernholmreviews thanks for coming back so fast.
I will have a play.
Keep up the great work - your reviews really help.
@@stjernholmreviews Thank you for the review. Looking into the 3400 as a pre with the Nuprime EVO 1 power amps, if utilising this setup can still use dual subs also? Many thanks
Can the 1120 also be used as an external room connection processor, or only 3400 could?
Great question! Yes it can, but only with analog in and out on RCA. The 3400 can do it digitally as well AND balanced analog if needs be.
Have you heard the AiO Axxess Forte series? It seems to be in the same category-ish but not nearly so many features.
?? As far as i remember, these are more like in the "flashy" category with no DSP to speak of? Am I wrong?
Would like to know the best all in one box system
I think you are looking at it. Just add speakers. 🙂
Some people say you need room perfect to compensate for the basic sound of the amp. From my experience with the 1120 that is a perfect summation. Using the 1120 as just a source, the (to me) unpleasant basic sound remained.
What source did you use with the 1120 just used as a preamp?
@@stjernholmreviews Hi, I used Airplay and coax input from my usual Allo Digione Signature with linear power supply and AQ Carbon cable. I believe I ran the unit at Unity gain and controlled the volume with my Rega Aethos integrated. I didn’t try analog inputs from my regular DAC, as my understanding is that the 1120 would convert that signal to digital anyway. To be fair I did most all my testing with B&W 805. A last minute quick test with the Contour 20, seemed to suggest better synergy.
I talked to someone literary the same day as I saw your video. He echoed my exact experience (you need RP for Lyngsorf amps to sound good) without me saying anything about having tried their amps, hence my post 😊 I don’t claim to be right, but that was just my experience, from having it at home for a few weeks and trying it in a few rooms.
The other conclusion I made was the RP while less invasive to the sound than previous experience with Dirac, did not fix my room issues in the bass. I still need to try Dirac in my new home.
Can you advice how to connect audiolab 9000 cdt to the tdai 3400 for best results?
You should be fine using either one. There can be some advantages to TOSLINK as you get galvanic separation too, but I hear many preferring coaxial. As always, try both and see what you likes the best. The difference should be very subtle.
@@stjernholmreviews I am not sure that the 3400 has coaxial connection (or am I wrong?).
Thanks for quick response.
@@jacobwebb9587 in that case, you missed the connectivity part of the review 😁 …or maybe I missed it? Anyway there is two coax and two toslink.
@@stjernholmreviews Wow. Thanks for clarification. My English is not the best.
Kjære stjernholm! Danskene har alltid laget fantastisk hifi! Skulle gjerne hatt en Lyngdorf,men jeg vil få skattefogden på døren hvis jeg kjøper en! Kan de nye forsterker streamerne fra Yamaha, technics og maranz klare det samme?
No….not really. Technics GX70 is the one coming the closest…. check the review on the channel.
Great review as usual..!! Thank you. (the link to your instagram is broken BTW) Hey, in 6:52 what speakers are those?
Thank you for watching. Those are the M&K S-300. A powerful home cinema speaker. Closed cabinet, designed for use with sub. The instagram link in bio should work fine, sending you to the youtube channel, right? What link are you referring to?
Hej har du anmeldt lyngdorf surround processeren mp50, jeg kan forstå at du selv bruger den i din hjemmebio, kunne vildt godt tænke mig en sådan anmeldelse og høre hvordan room perfect virker med multi kanals filmlyd. Bring it on tak.
Svarer på engelsk af hensyn til de øvrige seere: Hello Benjamin. I have not really digged in to multichannel sound yet on the channel, but I want to. Maybe a review of the MP60 2.1? . I am a big fan though! Think of the Lyngdorf MP`s like a TDAI-3400 on steroids. The effects of roomperfect and also independent speaker EQ`s can not be understated for a very coherent sounding home cinema, and they keep making them better with frequent software updates! Feel free to write me on email. You find it on the channel "about page".
@@stjernholmreviews cool, fedt vi har en dansker der anmelder disse produkter på youtube.
Yes! Bump that Bobby B!!!
Please add subtitles to your videos ! 👍👍👍
Added!
remote is Bluetooth and not zigbee?
@dimitrikatsaros9212 Yes. Auto pairing and rock solid! You can also use it in IR mode.
Why does it have a microphone input ???
Thats used for the Room Correction Microphone for doing the meassurements.
@@stjernholmreviews just curious , does it come with the measuring microphone ? I
One thing to note: The TDAI-3400 does not feature Chromecast built in.
Otherwise, great review!
Hello Seb. Thank you for watching the channel! You are absolutely right. With the last update, TDAI-3400 got Airplay 2 added. I will add correction to the description.
there is a competition : roon with convolution filters
🤣That would be the nerdiest competition ever, and just for the "room correcting" part. Convolution technology is great, but will never be user friendly. Agree? Thank you for watching the channel!!
I had 2 x Tact Millennium (12.000€ each) Lyngdorf amplifiers 15 years ago as Bi-amping but sold them after trying a integrated amplifier Gryphon diablo 250. It was night and day experience. The 2 expensive digital amplifier was so boring sounding on my Zingali client name 1.5 and they are really sensitive but has a 15inch woofer and 15 inch horn.
Have not touched digital amplifiers since
I follow your reasoning, and yes some digital amplifiers can have a fatiguing quality to them. But dont let one (old) experience define your opinion. So much has happened in that field since, and there is some very capable switching amps and digital amps out there. The Technics SE-R1 comes to mind as a extremely sweet sounding analogish digital amp. I am currently listening to a Diablo 300, so I am feeling you on the organic musical quality it brings to the chain. BTW, I love using the 3400 as a pre-amp / processor, bypassing the built in amps all together. Keep listening!
@stjernholmreviews you are right. How do you like Hegel H600 compared to Diablo 300? The difference and strength of both amplifiers in terms of sound. Witch one has the most bass control and transparency and dynamics and musicality?
2:25 no idea why more stereo amps don't have HDMI inputs, they act like people with high end stereo's only use them for vinyl and nothing else, god forbid someone with a nice Hi-fi system might want to watch a movie on it!!!
Hello William, and thank you for watching! HDMI is pretty complex, often also support heavy with tons of compability issues, becomes obsolete fast, and thus hard to do well! Thats why amp manufactures tries to avoid it in general. Naturally, it is only suited amps that has digital interfaces as well.
my favorite reviewer you silent , are you fine
vs bel canto e1x int
No Qobuz, No Bueno!
The measurements on this came out poorly on various forms including ASR!
There are much better and cheaper Class D amps
Oddi, thank you for watching the channel, AND JUST LISTEN! You might also want to pay attention to the segment about the poweramp of the 3400 that I call out as the weak point (also see my video on the 1120, where I have the same conclusion). It does not take away from the amp, that nothing else comes close all the way to the power amp. It makes it a pretty interesting value proposition in combination with your poweramp of choice. If you know of ANY product that could compare feature/functionality wise, let us know.
@@stjernholmreviews Thank you for the response. At the end of the day, as audiophiles the question we ask ourselves is, is it worth the $7K price tag. Absolutely not! Just a piece of snob furniture.
@@rogerIndianKing I totally disagree on that. Even viewed as a pre-amp only, I think it is worth every penny, and offers very musical solutions to all the issues you might face in a home environment. Nobody has anything like it, that actually makes all this tech so accessible. So trying to define it as snobbery is totally missing the mark, IMO.
Again, by the end of the day - what alternatives that can do what this thing does can you point at?
Snobbery to me, is when somebody pays 10 fold for goldplated exterior. This is not the case here, where we have a very unique, refined and user friendly DSP, that both enables everybody to get the most from the speakers in their room, as well as making the user experience great. The R&D and software alone must have been a huge effort to do. So again. What are the products out there that justifies your argument?
@@stjernholmreviews Even viewed as pre-amp only? Now I am totally confused. Most non-audiophile audience is listening to digital music out there from Spotify etc,. A matching DAC with a decent power Amp would suffice their needs. For audiophiles who are into Vinyl and stuff, if we really break this down, there are much better options even working with $4k option. I wouldn't recommend this product to your average Joe out there.
Send it to Amir....and let's get past the marketing.
Pretty sure I saw that Amir ripped it a new one, so to say. Lots of folks say gear that measures well or almost perfectly often sounds poor. I’m not saying this because I’ve not set out to acquire a piece that measures great in order to evaluate its SQ. But, if gear that measures well sounds fantastic such that something that sells for 1/10 of higher-priced product (I’ve read Amir has found such dacs, for example) actually sounds better than the poor-measuring 10X (or 3x or 5x), why wouldn’t all or most manufacturers simply make gear that measures well? If there is a causal relationship between measurements and wonderful SQ, that is. Problem solved. Do large companies whose gear measures poorly lack the technical design acumen or wherewithal to source from the suppliers used by the makers of perfect measuring inexpensive gear? Seems unlikely.
It would be interesting to turn the table. Collect a few pieces of gear that no one has measured. Audition them. AFTER the “measurements crowd” chooses what they think sounds best, measure the pieces. See if they picked the best-measuring.
@@richardcloud9265 Did he test this...lol? He is really cranking out the data now...wow. It's a good thing. Why do they make gear that is 10 times more expensive...when there is comparable or even better gear cheaper....money. I think the manufacturers and engineers have always known the power of suggestion...and marketing bells and whistles...has always been easy...no matter the product.
Add in the terrific maxim by Twain...'It's a lot easier to fool people...than for people to admit they have been fooled'.
Now I am not saying all of this is deliberate...i think the manufacturers can easily fool themselves as well...their ear lies to them...and there is simply no way to check that.
Everyone lies to themselves at times...
So intentional or not...what does seem to be fairly obvious with high end gear...the designs are pretty flawless...but testing is sparse once the project is assembled. Worse...if it is tested...and released.
Listening is important...but highly subjective...and more importantly susceptible to a variety of things that has nothing to do with the signal. Looks...room acoustics...price...panache...brand name...all color the brain and ear. Throw in marketing...and the audiophile is a moving target...with or without the best of intentions.
It s a bit ironic that a noob in Best Buy is less likely to waste coin on gear relative in cost to the expert audiophile...who with all the extra experience...time invested...apparently for the last few dacades...routinely gets picked clean....and most never realize it.
Irony.
Amir is rocking some boats...because he has hit upon a hard truth in the high end industry...which brings us back to Mark Twain.
@@JACKnJESUS Yeah I’m pretty sure he tested it. I stumbled over it a week ago or so. I was surprised. He said a guy loaned it to him. I appreciate that you didn’t take my post as affront. It wasn’t. You make excellent points re: human nature, how easy it is to be fooled (by others or one’s self) in audio.
However, I didn’t ask why a co might charge 10x. I think that is covered by the expression, “nice work if you can get it”. I asked why those companies don’t make their gear measure well (like the inexpensive stuff Amir, for instance, presents) if the supposition is that good measurements = good SQ. Why would they create a headwind to market acceptance/winning deep-pocketed customers by bucking such a straight-forward design principle? Then they could figure out how to raise the perceived value of their widget through marketing, cosmetics, etc. as all makers of higher-priced widgets do. But to make a poor quality piece that measures poorly makes no sense IF, IF one believes poor measurements = poor sound. Obviously, I am casting doubt on the premise of poor measurements = poor sound, but only thru a thought exercise. To reiterate, I don’t measure. My question does not apply to those companies who, as you suggest, are not purposely making poor-sounding gear to sells at 10x, but rather have fooled themselves into believing their bad-sounding gear sounds great. And I’m pretty sure that happens as I know dealers who’ve decried well-known, high-priced pieces that sound sounds shockingly bad. Not often, but it happens.
I actually don’t visit ASR. But I wonder if there are several (or any) examples of high-priced pieces that have measured beautifully.
Again, thanks for your nicely laid out reply.
@@richardcloud9265 Amir could probably answer better than I ever could...and probably others as well. I did see where one of Amir's analyzers goes to the tune of somewhere around 200k. Luckily he owned that from a long ago business project...great for the audio world. His speaker analyzer cost over 100k...so...that's 300k for just two pieces...for testing.
I think the answer is before us.
Companies do test their gear...some of them.
I would also think from an engineering standpoint...and attitude...they are confident in their designs. They have been doing it for years...people have been buying them...why measure? The ears do all of the filtering for them already...makes it easier to do nothing.
And until recently....no one was doing much checking....certainly any checking was done in house...and fixed quietly...hopefully.
Yes, there is high end gear that tests extremely well on ASR...the usual suspects...Pass Labs...Benchmark. Benchmark has the AHB2...sinad of 113...ridiculously clean amp...for 3k. There are a ton of folks out there who were talked into, or talked themselves into much higher priced gear....that won't even get close to that Benchmark.
Yes...tests are surprising over there...it's always a surprise...which is half the fun. Obvious looking winners bite the dust...other dark horses rear out of nowhere...like Topping...Amir never heard of them...and yet.
EDIT: It's been a pleasure conversing with you.
Jack, what marketing? What statements do you believe to be factually wrong?