We don't know how time works in the Maw etc. Theoretically there is a *finite* number of souls that were lost due to the burning of Teldrassil. My guess is they will both return in the DLC after TWW.
@@druidicleonnnjj You didn't read the lore, because the Maw has been BROKEN for a MUCH longer time! When asked; "Isn't the Maw receiving souls since the beginning of time? Exactly", as Tyrande grins" So this goes FAAAAAAR beyond the souls from Teldrassil! Mind you, the Maw has been unjustly collecting souls since somewhere in Legion... But according to the lore, there were souls trafficked there since the very beginning into the realm of death.
The one cool thing, imho, was seeing the original Sylvanas ranger general, and the gap between who she was and what she became. That's a long way from being redeemed, though. And it's hard to imagine that spending an eternity in hell will help her to heal, no matter how finite that long span of immeasurable time is. I get that it's some sort of poetic justice, but healing is really hard when you're living in grief and remorse. And that poor owl, having to stay there with her the whole time! What kind of twisted idea is that?! Poor creature.
Nah, that owl is hardcore. He's been with Tyrande a *long, long* time. He'll be fine. IMHO, speaking as someone with severe PTSD -- being surrounded by the things that traumatize you doesn't help --- *but* Sylvanas's biggest trauma at this moment are her own sins. She's getting to at least give peace to the souls she destroyed. IMHO, that can at least help her feel like she's doing something to heal the wounds she caused and perhaps heal her's, too.
@@Elithrae "She's getting to at least give peace to the souls she destroyed. IMHO, that can at least help her feel like she's doing something to heal the wounds she caused and perhaps heal her's, too." That's a fantastic point. I didn't think of that.
I feel bad for Vereesa. She has to struggle with her sisters, especially Sylvanas. Now she watches her being judged and being cast into the maw. Poor woman.
@@NinjaKumaDon't forget the father of her children / her husband being slaughtered by the Horde under Garrosh. People forget, Theramore didn't just scar Jaina because of her history with her Dad. Rhonin was Jaina's colleague and friend --- and she had to face his widow and children.
@@MusselFootI think that animated TV SHOW would be far better. The first WoW movie was greatly bombed on story(much of a story actually not follows original). I partly blame for it limited time they were constrained due to film length. But animated TV show with slower pace would be ideal. At least IMHO. And if they start with the events of Warcraft 2, they have enough material for years if not decades to come.
breaks my heart so damn bad, you can SEE the moment he realizes what "hes" done and that its gonna stick with him, but he isnt even allowed to have more than a few seconds before hes taken back over
any have questioned the lore. It was not going as it should, they say. The expansions have become weak and slow, poorly made and dumbly elaborated, they affirm. I honestly liked it, but like i loooooved it, for it did lacked some stuff, but aint that bad.
@@KTA1sVidsandFacts did we verifiably see there were two fragments of his soul? souls that were fragmented were killed by the mournblade, Arthas was not killed by a mournblade merely corrupted by it through the Ner'zhul Lich King. When Arthas died Uther unjustly cast his soul into the Maw where it was then used as a soul crystal to forge the mournblade that Anduin carried, which we saw disappear. Don't get me wrong I didn't play a whole lot of SL I just... it was bad, the gameplay in particular was atrocious and I couldn't do it.
Arthas shouldn't be wiped from Warcraft lore. Uther hot to exist in Bastion. I know he did good deeds but so did Arthas. Until Ner'Zhul's soul possessed him. So it wasn't Arthas who did bad deeds. Arthas should have come back in Bastion.
@@Zerathenezot ... you're seriously going to tell us that the right decision wasn't to purge the city when they were all going to(and did turn into) undead in order to prevent them from spreading out like a plague and attacking nearby settlements in the kingdom? or that he should not have gone after the people responsible for that situation? he acted with what knowledge he had, and in fact he was the only one there with the most amount of knowledge regarding the situation...everything changed the MOMENT he picked up Frostmourne in Northrend, at that moment, that was no longer Arthas, if he were, he would have never...EVER killed the High Elves in Silvermoon or his own people in Lordaeron. And when he put on that crown, whatever vestige of his soul that remained was sealed away for good(just not enough to stop him from keeping Jaina's locket close to him), or at least that's how I see it since he forgot everything of who he was, that was no longer him.
And also stop making Night Elves kinda jokes Main god of Night Elves when told she condemned a huge portion of the entire race for literally no reason for potentially eternal torment: "Whoops lol"
I'm not even horde and I agree with that though looking at it the horde did stir up a lot of shit so it makes since that they would continuously be the bbeg's
yeah i was thinking the exact same thing. Gilneas was lost and it's population killed or enslaved by the forsaken and Genn's son and heir was killed by Sylvanas , yet it seems that after Genn and Sylvanas encounter in Legion everything was settled down. I just hope that by now at least Gilneas will come back as an existing and indipendent kingdom maybe with the nigth elves and gilneans living both in it.
Its also weird how any and all Alliance crimes are never once mentioned in game. Genn attacked the horde during the legion invasion and allowed the worgen into Gilneas
Did my boy arthus so bad. they redeem her like its nothing while also constantly acting like its arthas' fault he was mind controlled. its so fucking stupid.
But he wasn’t, just like bolvar wasn’t. Influence does not equal mind control. Arthas was not just corrupted by frostmourne and the lich kings(nerzul)/the jailers influence, but by his own destructive, and fanatical desire for control and self actualization. Sylvanas was not redeemed either, she was held accountable and given just judgement. Arthas’ end keeps his story tragic, he did not get redemption, Justice, or judgement outside of uthers vengeance. In the end he was a tool as others had been to him, and his soul expended burned into nothing, an utterly tragic end to what started as noble cause.
I would agree that Arthas' demise was his own mentality. I would argue that makes him far more interesting than 'Oh, this random, unknown bad guy made me do it.' That said, I agree that it's not fair to have turned Sylvanas into this big super villian and then suddenly write it off when Arthas gets side-stepped by the writers over and over. Of course people are going to want an Arthas redemption story. This one was so poorly written no one is satisfied.
@@unlockdaniel Except that wasn’t the crown of domination that corrupted arthas, but frostmourne, that stole his soul as well as the souls of his victims. Bolvar didn’t have to deal with that. Bolvar didn’t loose his soul and his human qualities, and they helped him in his beating of the dark influence of the crown. Arhas was stripped of his compasion, love and mercy, togheter with his main defence against external corrupting influence. Sylvanas had a torned soul and that was enought to change her deeply, lading her to remorslessly lots of things that nearly broke her immediately after it was restored. Arthas had a torned sould, the mind influence of the lich king (and against that even Sylvanas could absolutely nothing as long as it could still reach her) AND after that the mind influence of the jailer, against which arthas as the lich king still fought as much as Bolvar. Arthas had all the deck stacked against him, Sylvanas and Bolvar had only a few card against. The only one coming close to the same situati in was Anduin, and in his case there was no manipulation in effect, while arthas was also masterfully manipulated since the start and never knew as far the manipulation really went.
@@thehartofthegalexi8433 exactly turning sylvanas into a scapegoat for shitty storyline, windrunner stood for something not this utterbullshit and weakness they showed. all those sisters were some sort of LEADING personality.
@@marcorizzoni9766 Thank you! Finally someone understand the original lore. Blizz messed up this whole Shadowlands. They bent and twisted the lore so hard just to make Anduin "bad, but not a real bad so we can bring him back" , in the same time they fcked up Arthas and Sylvanas original story and they created a paradox or we could say a nonsense.
... is there not a scene for how Sylvannas meets the Jailor? ... or the how/why they chose Anduin to become a LK-type pawn and apparently had Arthas' soul in him (?)
Since warcraft 3 i love seeing Sylvanas character until now and i'm still looking forward to see her or be part in the future expansion. I hope they introduced her as strong as last time she seen...💙
She won't be part of it. She's in the Maw and will be for quite some time. I think Blizzard realizes they leaned too heavily on her for the past few expansions. People are tired of her.
@@du4lstrik3 we will wait for eternity. You knoe blizzard will somehow bring her back like they did eith thrall haha. The council wont let her go. I bet you arthas will come back too😅 😂😂
@@ryohazuki605 Dude it's not even Blizzard anymore. It's Activision now. And WoW is a dying game. Who cares about any of this. Sylvanas is a crap character anyway. Get a GF and let the video game character obsession go.
So, everyone else that was controlled by the Jailer(as well as the Little Lion)that committed atrocities get to go on with their lives. Seems Tyranda has hair up her ..... Seems really unfair that Sylvanas is the only one to be punished.
30:36 this is out of order, since just before that we see Tyrande return to her priest version... however, I wonder how she felt when she was being returned and heard Elune say that she was responsible for letting Darnassus and all that resided within it to die.... for nothing... ... All that hate pointed at Sylvanas and it wasn't even really Sylvanas' fault she was the bullet but the protector disappeared to LET that tree and countless Nelfs to die...
Maybe I’m crazy but I’m patiently waiting for for the return of my favorite character, Sylvanas. Maybe they’ll bring her back or even redeem her The War Within.
I am currently playing WotLK. I Love Arthas. I just hate that he destroyed so many innocent people. Oh well!! Who in power hasn't sent innocent people to their deaths? (War/soldiers etc).
36:07 so beautiful where the alliance kingdoms imagine without Horde Scourge and Legion a perfect world (not without peace because there be gnolls) oh boy they did arthas dirty hardcore
I know it may be cry. Funny to said but my dad is/was able to voice arthas menethil which in turn may me see my dad in Arthas. I made a whole Orginal character because of Arthas menethil. He does not desever to be forgotten. Yes his actions where awful to put it lightly but he should not me forgotten.
Wow, they really just did Arthas THAT dirty?? And gave SYLVANAS a forced redemption arc? Did they read a fanfic from tumblr or something? ''Your legacy is at an end and you are forgotten'' - *idiotic writing* . Literally Uther and Sylvanas are standing there, he shattered the old Alliance, he destroyed Quel'Thalas and almost all the high/blood elves. Destroyed Lordaeron and ended a long line of kings, helped Ilidan aquire Guldans skull and become what he is, THEN LATER KILLED HIM (which they retconned), summoned the Legion on Azeroth then sabotaged the Legion in their invasion of Kalimdor. He is literally unforgetable and his actions STILL affect the present, his legacy will always be here, amazing character but no, Blizz does him dirty for some unknown reason and forces everyone to love Sylvanas and give her a redemption arc with some asspulled facts about her and her soul. They retconned so many things of the original lore in the last 8 years because they knew the crap they made up along the way would make even less sense than it does now.
I know. freaking I may a whole orginal character that is his daughter because my dad could sound like him so that encourge me write it. I been having a hard time trying to fit her in the lore and explain her powers. But nooo blizz had to come and do this shit
she thought the jailor would bring freedom not another shackle arround the neck thats why she said no,and in the end she wanted to redeem herelf by savig the souls she condemed,and this is why she is one of my favorite charcs.
Still think that that burned tree which are mostly the main "crime" that are incriminate to Sylvanas (and when things starts to go completely wrong) was too lame to make the Rescurer of the undead into another crazy bitchy Jaina with so many missteps and internal argues... She was so strong as a person who managed to escape the fate of a pawn and yet at the end they've made her nothing more than a crying baby inside with that damn tree on a background. Its just nonsense how she've managed to get that far
She was really good up until the end of WOTLK, after that it got messy. She had purpose when it came to eliminating Arthas/Lich King but after that it became self-preservation after she witnessed the Maw after she threw herself from Ice Crown Citadel
@@NinjaKuma Agreed. I liked her back in the day when playing WC3. Had an interesting story, and was a sympathetic character. After that she turned into some cliched, cocky villain that seemed to be more of a pet project for some Blizzard fanboy.
She'll come back, that's why they sat her in the Maw, so they can just get us maw walkers to yeet her back up to relevance, cause she sells well, while all us old farts just wanted to see Arthas one more time.
@@NinjaKuma I think that is when Jailer took the piece of her soul that contains her conscience, because you know, when she realised what she caused, she suicided, Jailer couldn't have that if he has to manipulate her to his ends, that psychopathic "self-preservation" started after that (check "Edge of Night" story) in my opinion.
I really hope they don't bring Sylvanus back, Blizzard keeps recycling characters over and over again and it's gotten very annoying. I also hope Sylvanus is the last of abysmal warchiefs the horde keeps being given, it's hard to root for a faction that has consistantly had genocidal maniacs running it.
Love Windrunner but agreed. I get the point is that when you lose a great leader, it can be followed by successions of incompetence and chaos (Thrall stepping down after WOTLK) and Vul was the closest we had to a rightful leader but even then, the brother only lasted an expansion and was never really given the full respect he deserved.
I miss the simpler times when there was the Lich king n that was the biggest threat/almost passive threat as long as you stayed well away from certain places but I suppose escalation and climax is inevitable.... But I do miss the time. I literally haven't really played much since wrath, I played a bit in warlords but not again since.... Not entirely sure about all the story/lore/explanations either but meh. Just more n more new shit for new and old players who can tolerate an endless grind but then again thats what the game is meant to do, to make money.
I mean it’s the same thing… yes in Wrath the lunch king was the biggest threat, and now shadowlands the jailor is the biggest threat… I don’t get your point
@@instincthaun3073 stupid story, stupid villain, stupid concept, stupid ending and of course it only gets worse and worse as they try to crank out more expansions and make up all kinds of new crap that doesn't even line up with the original story. I don't like it and i don't play it, that is the point.
@@ShaggyTheClown17 Everyone feels that way. That's why the game is dead, once the classic servers lose population because it gets boring after a while and it's not a competitive game, I think they will lose the players for good. Microsoft might revive it or might make it worse, I don't get my hopes up and it's still a long time until they take over, Blizzard might completely kill the game before they get their hands on it. They had great choices: 1. Make this game competitive. Fix every bug, balance classes and specs. If they had done this before wrath then as a result WoW would have dethroned Counter Strike as the most popular PvP game in the world at that time and continued to grow from there. 2. Focus on storylines and PvE content and no other MMO can compete because you have billions to invest at your disposal But they chose: 3. Shut up nerd, give me your money and don't expect anything from my billion dollar corporation developing this game at all The only sad thing is they could have made enough money off of the reasonable other choices, it's just they weren't clever enough to pull it off back then, now that they've learned from others they can make money with Overwatch. They probably made the most money possible with the path they took, but they killed off the game in the process, and that might not even be reasonable if you look at it purely from a financial perspective because diminishing the brand value for money isn't always the most profitable thing to do. Arguably growing the brand even further would have created opportunities for even more profits, but like I said they were to ignorant/lazy/greedy for quick cash to even consider this.
@@アマ-p2l PVP in MMO is NOT and will never be as popular as PvE. PVP in MMOs is a niche. Even with perfect balance, it would be. The time invest to even get started in an MMO to PVP compared to any PVP only game is already one of the big factors.
@@otrikas Yes but at the time it was a very popular niche and WoW was one of if not THE most popular game in the world. Overwatch is a niche and has 7 million players. The only thing that stopped Blizzard from exploring this niche and seeing how much potential there is was the fact that WoW PVP is impossible to televise. Without investing the time nobody understands what's going on so you can only target WoW players as an audience for your tournament streams. And if you can't use your tournaments to draw attention to your game then your marketing department will have "better" ideas. Also focusing on PvP would not have been such a big deal, the popularity of classic servers and the fact that TBC private servers have now made money for like 15 years and are still going shows that theoretical assumptions don't apply to players who have made a big emotional investment in the game. But like I said, it was entirely a financial question, and at the time game developers didn't try out new things such as new payment/revenue models and so on. With everything we know now, I believe they should have split the game into two versions or further separated the PvP modes, the only issue with balance was their greed (selling new expansions), so they could have just created a mode where you can't use all the completely buggy and imbalanced new spells and gear and instead only use balanced spells and gear. They could have easily made money off of this using clever revenue models, but I guess Blizzard could have never been the first to for example use micro-transactions because they never needed any money, they always made enough revenue, so it makes sense their plan to maximize profits was to secretly and slowly ruin the game to increase profits over the years. They could have completely separated these modes and sold 1 PvE game and 1 PvP game. And if PvE was really the focus then they could have used their revenue to actually develop a good PvE game, only producing half as many expansions but making the content twice as good. Imo none of their decisions ever made sense, not even if you only look at profits which is what they always did. But that's easy for me to say now that game developers have so many more ways to make money without ruining their game, and it's easy to say this after the long term success of WoW. I always thought WoW would remain popular but that's not really a long term prediction a business can make. There was a lot of competition back then. TL;DR: There are probably thousands of players with no understanding of economics or business who would have done a better job than Blizzard if they were put in charge. Any changes they would've made would've been risky at the time. But now that we know it wasn't just a couple of nerds who were as invested in the game as you can be, and now that we know that the subscription model and selling buggy and stupid expansions isn't the undisputed ultimate revenue model, it's very clear that Blizzard hasn't made good decisions. You can argue maximizing profits by ruining the game was reasonable, but imo it's a case of mismanagment, there hasn't been a game with more potential ever since. They were scared of Guild Wars and milked the players for a decade. If they had instead milked the potential of the game I believe it would be much more popular than Fortnite or Minecraft now.
Considering these are memories and not souls, I am going to assume that it is because both Varian and Varok were very impactful in Anduin's development. Saurfang's was much shorter, but it shows that their short time together was very meaningful to Anduin. At least that's how I interpret that scene.
I'm getting sick of the "but there's a greater threat out there" bullshit. I could take it from Sargeras since we know exactly what he was afraid of (Void Lords) and that explained why he turned against the Titans. Using the same motivation for two different big bads is just crap, and this time, we have absolutely no idea about anything that drove the Jailer. We don't know the threat he foresaw, we don't know the exact nature of the Sepulcher (classic macguffin), we don't know why he wanted to make a new reality that served him exclusively (other than generic villain motivations), we don't know shit. After all of the retconning they did to WC3, TBC, Wrath, and Legion, I'd expect them to flesh out the character a bit. What we got was generic bad guy. Overall I mostly enjoyed the expanding of the lore to let us learn more about the cosmic forces of this universe, and the emotional arcs were very well done, but The Jailer was a huge letdown.
"we don't know why he wanted to make a new reality that served him exclusively" that would be the "I hate the order of the existence, I know better, and if I relinquished control after all I've done, everything I've done will be undone." mindset. But this doesn't bode well with "I saw a threat and if all the cosmos isn't under my control, we will fail." Story feels like it changed hands one too many time than it should to actually be coherent. Also, makes me think that Jailer thinks the First Ones themselves are the real threat. Otherwise why would he need everyone to agree with him without hesitation. His actions on the other hand, from this point of view, universally scaled version of Sylvanas. Corrupting Sargeras with dreadlords, breaking order and peace everywhere to convince others that system is broken. There's a saying in Turkish, "Tell me who your friends is, and I'll tell you who you are." That explains all BS coming from Sylvanas. But doesn't explain Jailer's BS.
After WoTLK, there has been quite the drop in WoW's storytelling quality. WoTLK was the last expansion lore I liked and I'm sure many of the Warcraft fans feel the same. Besides, they did Arthas and Maiev so dirty in this one all while glorifying Sylvanas and Tyrande instead. Let me elaborate, both Sylvanas and Tyrande have been some of the most hypocritical characters during the story while Arthas and Maiev were quite blunt and straight forward and that's why I personally loved them a lot more. Yea, yea, many will probably hate me for my opinion but whatever, it remains my opinion and the fact remains they didn't treat the characters fairly and favored some in expense of others. And don't get me started with the bullshit nihilistic and new world order bullshit ideas they were pushing hardcore down the audience throat when Sylvanas was having those talks with Anduin like wtf..WoW's lore ideas used to be a bit more family friendly than this, now its lore ideas are becoming bit like old Assassins Creed games like AC 1 and 3
Legion had top tier storytelling outside of that I agree with the storytelling quality having dropped, in particular storytelling and lore consistency... Arthas had good intentions in Stratholme but when he took up Shadowmourne he relished in its power, recognized it corrupting him and thought he was righteous enough to overcome it... When he took up the helm he sat frozen on that throne fighting with Ner'zhul for control, he eventually won, but he lost all remanence of his old self by that point further relishing in the power and no longer caring for his previous self or his previous life or the connections he had. He wanted to turn all into undeath to increase his power even further... It is unclear how much influence the Jailer had in this, just as it is unclear how much influence he had over Sylvanas after she delved too far into the realm of death in Legion... it is clear she worked for the Jailer throughout BFA he was the hand that guided the war between the Horde and the Alliance, and while it was Elune who let the world tree be burnt down it was still Sylvanas who was being manipulated by the Jailer who did it..
@@tiny99990 "Shadowmourne he relished in its power, recognized it corrupting him and thought he was righteous enough to overcome it" at that moment that was already the corruption talking, not Arthas, cause let's be honest, would the Arthas before picking that sword, ever shed a single drop of elven blood in Silvermoon? while leading an undead army of all things to do it? no of course not
If you think about it Sylvanas wasn't the real reason for what happened to Shadowlands! She was accused for what Denathrius, Devos and the other Houses in Maldraxxus did!
The general idea is not bad, the dialogue feels like fanfic and should have been cooked a bit longer, but making Sylvanas a character with no agency since she's basically a pawn without free will, was stupid as fk. Her redemption was too cheap for a character that good.
The fact that the new arbiter didn’t just pull up every soul from the Maw and rejudge them so as to sort out those who didn’t belong their quickly, efficiently is… awful. So, what? Just let the countless innocents suffer for another million eons till Sylvanas maybe happens to find them all? Right… great…
Tyrande's delivery really fell flat. Her judgment could have carried weight and wisdom, a seemingly endless punishment that also hinted at redemption and salvation... instead the VA decided to go with petulant edgy girlboss. Ugh.
Everyone feeling Arthas was done dirty while Sylvannas got gold are missing the point and its not even that deep or that bad of story-telling. Sylvanas becomes like Arthas or at the very least, helps elevate another Arthas type of figure (The Jailer). She ends up doing the "Shadow-Work" necessary to come to terms with her "shadows" and then owns her mistakes. Her acceptance into the Maw is her atonement for the crimes she's done. She wasn't just given a redemption, she EARNED it. Arthas on the other hand, was NEVER sorry for the crimes he committed. Even at death, what we saw wasn't a man of remorse but a man in fear of oblivion. Never, did Arthas show ANY remorse in any of his crimes, even at the plea of others. In the novel depicting Sylvanas return to ICC post-WOTLK. We see that she *unalives* herself, and see Arthas in a state of purgatory. Even in this realm, he isn't sorry or even comfortable in his own condemnation. Instead, He's a boy who cowers, and screams while being ripped apart. As if to show that even in his most vulnerable state, Arthas retreats back to a portion of himself not innocent, but of victimization. Meaning even in death and with the understanding of his crimes, Arthas still believed he was innocent, righteous, or justified. This is why Arthas is done like this. If there is a part of his soul that still contains the light, it must be somewhere in the Maw, because whether it be WC3, WOTLK, or SoD - we don't see any fragments of that light but instead our projections of the hero we once knew. That is kind of a real-world feeling of grief and mourning the loss of a relationship and expectation of a person's behavior. So alot of yall can look at this all as a bad story to milk Sylvanas and etc etc etc. But really its surface level archetypal story-telling. You just don't like it because the hero you want isn't being championed.
I havent really played shadowlands at all but it seems like they got really fricken lazy and just made everything the jailers fault??? was this supposed to be last xpac?? idk jsut seems really bad lol... such a strange way to tie up a bunch of loose ends, it seems like someone smoked themselves stupid and tried telling a story to a friend. and ofc Correct me if im wrong guys/gals..
Am i the only true classic / orcs vs humans pre warcraft universe, true old school player here that enjoyed the all the expansions So far ? yes may i have another
@@NinjaKuma The one where Elune speaks through Tyrande is supposed to happen after Tyrande fights Sylvanas and there was one other I forgot. Think it was about Anduin.
@@NinjaKuma Just checked. The end of the Sepulcher Raid. Anduin being released from the Jailer's control happens before the Jailer standing before the Azeroth globe on the floor. And the one where Sylvanas is talking and walking amongst memories happens after that Anduin one, before the Jailer standing one.
playing ads during wow cinematics for me is like playing ads or getting interrupted by someone while watching LOTR movies. I can not tolerate this (Specially when something too delicate is about to happen in the cinematic). I would understand that a channel that create copied contents needs ads for its survival but it can be shown at the beginning or end of the clip.
They ruined a legacy brand with last minute changes to the game before the expansion lore and now we have a regular undead blood elf to toil in their idea of hell, without being a banshee queen (or powers) her task is going to be a bitch.
who says she doesnt have these powers stil? and her powers where also enhanced by the jailor which she has now lost,and she is annything but a reguler undead blood elf :)
@@Marcustheseer Regular in the sense she is no longer a banshee (as she is whole again) and can’t access her banshee powers or those bestowed by the jailer. It is more about the fact that they ruined the character rather than her current form.
I think he saw the Void spirits probably the end game of wow. You can look them up they are the most powerful beings in the wow universe The burning legion was created by sargeras bcz of the void spirits the Old gods are conected to the void spirits not gonna go into detail but u should look it up why sargeras created the Burning legion its scary.
I still don't get the plan: creation is flawed for some unexplained or at least poorly explained reason, so instead we're going to destroy it all and rebuild it into... what? A perfect world? A world without will? A world where free will is all there is, which would not be different from the world before? I... didn't get the plan back then and ever after watching these.... Still don't.
Man, Sylvana's intentions were good and she's the only character who realised that no one have free will and that we're all in a *uckin' prison. She's the best character ever introduced in WoW lore and that's why she's one of my fav characters.
I think it was more like she let sylvanas burn the tree, elune could of intervened or done more to save teldrassil but she didn't because she thought she was helping the winter queen with their soul drought at the time
This story is so unnecessarily complicated. I don't understand why there are so many layers to afterlife and shit, I still don't get how this whole shit works and how it even makes sense, it seems there isn't even a higher being or faith for anyone, even hell is controlled by some mortal beings. I'm probably gonna have to read the Sylvanas book since that is way more coherent. It's not clear at all whether Sylvanas was banished to the maw until every soul gets out of there or if she'll remain alone until the end of time, and how getting out of there even works. I've also always thought that Sylvanas' rightful end would be to kill herself and this time somehow be forgiven for her sins, just my opinion though.
It's meant to be the afterlife for all worlds like Azeroth, Argus, K'aresh, Mardum, and others. There are like 10 to 15 different planets listed in the lore and those are just the ones we know about. The Shadowlands are supposed to be the afterlife for all worlds in the universe (apart from the Emerald Dream). It feels like what we're seeing is just a base version of them for the sake of the story. The higher faiths common among all of the worlds are "Light" and "Shadow." The most prevalent concept of a higher faith among the known races simply refers to the "Light." Sylvanas' punishment is meant to feel insurmountable and eternal because she's been sent there to free every soul that's been put there since the dawn of time, but it still offers "Hope," which is what one of the main plots of the whole story was about, that one day she'll complete her sentence and be free to return to the rest of the Shadowlands to eventually reunite with her family after they have died.
The shadowlands storytelling was the worst aspect of the expansion. Sure the voice acting, cinematics, music and visuals were all top notch, but the writing itself and choices made were some of the worst to come out of blizzard.
Blizzard never lost their touch in regards of cinematics. Always been great at it. Since the strategy games, to Shadowlands. But Shadowlands is about the worst expansion Blizzard has ever released till this day. Their orgasmic love for Sylvanas went too far. Turning a Paladin into a Death Knight, has "neeeever" been seen before. 🙄 I stopped playing the game cause of this, as it was just another farming expansion. I do love Warcraft lore, but the lore in this is just... It's not well thought through. I am well aware of why Sylvanas has done all what she has done, but she should've died after fighting the Lich King, or died when the whole of Azeroth declared war on her. Saurfang shouldn't have died and Sylvanas should've been killed. And if not there, she should've been ended in her fight with Tyrande, who had the god damn strength given to her, by a freaking powerful entity that would easily undo Sylvanas as a person. But noooo-no-no-no. Sylvanas is still Blizzards favourite, and is meant to win it all. Fucking stupid move from Blizzard. (I wonder if they've taken up the habbits of destroying a game, from speaking with EA.) It's been the weakest story so far, their weakest expansion and their weakest attempt to try and create something new with those there factions you can choose between, when it just turns into yet another faction, we just have to farm for, and for what? Whoopty-do. Gear that we can upgrade. If they had to make something "new" mechanic, then freaking make it a new one, and not have them create yet the same all over from previous patches, and then "outfitting" them with newer "clothes." Just because you polish a turd, doesn't make it less of a turd. (Fyi. For people wanting to reply to this with a comment. I wont reply as this is just my reaction to the expansion.)
CAN ANYBODY PLEASE TELL ME WHAT IS THE NAME OF THE GUY THAT HAS A MASK WITH HORNS, TWO SWORDS BEHIND HIS BACK AND THE ONE WHO GLOWS WITH MAGIC? THIS GUY PROBABLY DOESN'T APPEAR IN THIS VIDEO. I HAVE SHADOWLANDS EPISODE 1 BUT AS A GAME MOVIE.
@@Joebauers2505 Lore wise maybe but content wise Mists was no where near the worst. Overall worst goes to WoD. Introduction of Garrisons, the most content dry expansion, terrible continuity it was all horrible.
@@genesisjax4023 Agreed Lore wise but i suppose i can agree on the wod being worst content but to be fair theyre all shit after wrath. just more of a grind for nothing. shit story concepts and otherwise
You know when people talk about psychopaths, they're being described as people who are devoid of empathy, so they become manipulative, violent or whatever it takes to get their way, because they only care about themselves and their goals. She was a Jailer-made psychopath. When she got injected with the missing part of herself, she couldn't take everything she's done. That's why you think that. And you're partially right about this, like everyone else, her actions are evil, but she as a *_WHOLE_* person, is not.
they did Arthas dirty, Sylvanas got redeemed by a feminist agenda after almost destroying the world several times and generating tragedies even bigger than those of the death knight, while Arthas got thrown as an unforgivable criminal that his only crime was to protect his people at any cost.
This is how stupid and incoherent the Shadowlands writers where, they have Sylvanas serve the very man who created the Lich King and who made Sylvanas a banshee, not to mention Kel'thuzad serving him alongside her? This was very dumb story telling. Sylvanas hated the Lich King and Kel'thuzad now suddenly she serves on the same side they did? Not to mention how they disregarded Arthas and ruined his character. Such lazy writing. This was why I checked out of this game its lore was ruined by some college students who have no love for the game and no respect its lore or what came before.
"This is how stupid and incoherent the Shadowlands writers where, they have Sylvanas serve the very man who created the Lich King and who made Sylvanas a banshee, not to mention Kel'thuzad serving him alongside her?" And she was dumb enough to think she was doing all this to break a dictating system and bring free will.
Ugh Tyrande is so damn annoying. Just like Maiev. Can’t think of any other characters as annoying and boring as these two. Like two mosquitos buzzing and pecking. Sylvanas and Illidan will always reign supreme because they are so relatable.
i still can't come to even slightly like tyrande, I just always disliked her character even tho she never did anything bad... so ngl, wasn't pleasure watching her in those cinematics xD and yet, even tho sylvanas did some nasty things (can't forgive writers for butchering her character and now trying to undo it - tho i appreciate it) i still can't come to hate her either :D
![World Of Warcraft | Shadowlands | All Cinematics and Cutscenes (Full Game Movie) [4K60]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/8kGaoInDk1Y/mqdefault.jpg)
![World Of Warcraft | Shadowlands | All Cinematics and Cutscenes (Full Game Movie) [4K60]](/img/tr.png)
Can we talk about how that poor owl didn't do anything wrong but had to end up in the Maw with Sylvanas for (probably) forever?
Tyrande taking the wrong page out of Elune's book, what with the sending innocents to the Maw schtick lol
We don't know how time works in the Maw etc. Theoretically there is a *finite* number of souls that were lost due to the burning of Teldrassil. My guess is they will both return in the DLC after TWW.
@@druidicleonnnjj You didn't read the lore, because the Maw has been BROKEN for a MUCH longer time!
When asked; "Isn't the Maw receiving souls since the beginning of time? Exactly", as Tyrande grins"
So this goes FAAAAAAR beyond the souls from Teldrassil! Mind you, the Maw has been unjustly collecting souls since somewhere in Legion...
But according to the lore, there were souls trafficked there since the very beginning into the realm of death.
I ain’t gonna lie, I cried when Ysera came back.
She was always the best dragon aspect!
Didn't we all?
And i cried whn she died in Legion :`(
The one cool thing, imho, was seeing the original Sylvanas ranger general, and the gap between who she was and what she became. That's a long way from being redeemed, though. And it's hard to imagine that spending an eternity in hell will help her to heal, no matter how finite that long span of immeasurable time is. I get that it's some sort of poetic justice, but healing is really hard when you're living in grief and remorse. And that poor owl, having to stay there with her the whole time! What kind of twisted idea is that?! Poor creature.
Nah, that owl is hardcore. He's been with Tyrande a *long, long* time. He'll be fine. IMHO, speaking as someone with severe PTSD -- being surrounded by the things that traumatize you doesn't help --- *but* Sylvanas's biggest trauma at this moment are her own sins.
She's getting to at least give peace to the souls she destroyed. IMHO, that can at least help her feel like she's doing something to heal the wounds she caused and perhaps heal her's, too.
@@Elithrae "She's getting to at least give peace to the souls she destroyed. IMHO, that can at least help her feel like she's doing something to heal the wounds she caused and perhaps heal her's, too."
That's a fantastic point. I didn't think of that.
I feel bad for Vereesa. She has to struggle with her sisters, especially Sylvanas. Now she watches her being judged and being cast into the maw. Poor woman.
Yuuuup. Imagine watching your family be torn apart...
Don't feel and don't worry, she is just a bunch of 10011100110001001 🙃
@@NinjaKumaDon't forget the father of her children / her husband being slaughtered by the Horde under Garrosh. People forget, Theramore didn't just scar Jaina because of her history with her Dad. Rhonin was Jaina's colleague and friend --- and she had to face his widow and children.
@@DougMarv Naw, because all fiction is based in reality in one way or another, that's why it hits so hard.
We can argue about mechanics, dungeons, raids and any other aspect of wow, but the cinematics are just epic
@@MusselFootI think that animated TV SHOW would be far better. The first WoW movie was greatly bombed on story(much of a story actually not follows original).
I partly blame for it limited time they were constrained due to film length. But animated TV show with slower pace would be ideal. At least IMHO. And if they start with the events of Warcraft 2, they have enough material for years if not decades to come.
@@HanithSVK i agree, we need a 6+ seasons long wow lore animated series
Mmm WoW at its peak had like 2-3 cinematic and that’s when it was the best cuz it’s a game not a movie.
Shadowlands was better than deadflight
25:50 The *emotion* in this part. Blizzard’s cinematic team have to love and be so passionate about their job
breaks my heart so damn bad, you can SEE the moment he realizes what "hes" done and that its gonna stick with him, but he isnt even allowed to have more than a few seconds before hes taken back over
12:55 I love Revendreth, I love the characters, but seeing the Accuser and the Curator get snatched was lowkey funny.
don't like playing wow but fun to keep up with lore
Same here, sadly
any have questioned the lore. It was not going as it should, they say. The expansions have become weak and slow, poorly made and dumbly elaborated, they affirm. I honestly liked it, but like i loooooved it, for it did lacked some stuff, but aint that bad.
Luke?
@@purpletylenol7787 hopefully since the shakedown of Blizz we will get better content in the future
Try it out again? It’s not bad.
"But the Forsaken Sylvanas...peace be upon her...said that one day, the Maw shall be emptied, and its doors shall rattle in the wind."
nawww let her be killed by the night elves that she killed when she's done. set a statue in Amirdrassil of the night elves justice over her.
Sylvanas Windrunner was tasked with bringing every soul from the Maw to justice. We may yet see Arthas Menethil again.
Wasn't his soul used up and basically destroyed?
@@NinjaKuma the one that they see near the end yes, but the one that got tossed into the Maw by Uther still remains!
@@KTA1sVidsandFacts did we verifiably see there were two fragments of his soul? souls that were fragmented were killed by the mournblade, Arthas was not killed by a mournblade merely corrupted by it through the Ner'zhul Lich King. When Arthas died Uther unjustly cast his soul into the Maw where it was then used as a soul crystal to forge the mournblade that Anduin carried, which we saw disappear.
Don't get me wrong I didn't play a whole lot of SL I just... it was bad, the gameplay in particular was atrocious and I couldn't do it.
This expansion gave me fanfic vibes to be completely honest
Unironically, Metzen was gone, sooo.....*yes.*
Tsukoyomi vibes, 100%
Just imagine if SoD ended with arthas coming back with Uther to fight, the most missed opportunity ever.
or in sepulcher, would also work perfectly
Arthas shouldn't be wiped from Warcraft lore. Uther hot to exist in Bastion. I know he did good deeds but so did Arthas. Until Ner'Zhul's soul possessed him. So it wasn't Arthas who did bad deeds. Arthas should have come back in Bastion.
@@Twitch_Moderatorsomeone didn't play warcraft 3
@@Zerathenezot ... you're seriously going to tell us that the right decision wasn't to purge the city when they were all going to(and did turn into) undead in order to prevent them from spreading out like a plague and attacking nearby settlements in the kingdom? or that he should not have gone after the people responsible for that situation? he acted with what knowledge he had, and in fact he was the only one there with the most amount of knowledge regarding the situation...everything changed the MOMENT he picked up Frostmourne in Northrend, at that moment, that was no longer Arthas, if he were, he would have never...EVER killed the High Elves in Silvermoon or his own people in Lordaeron. And when he put on that crown, whatever vestige of his soul that remained was sealed away for good(just not enough to stop him from keeping Jaina's locket close to him), or at least that's how I see it since he forgot everything of who he was, that was no longer him.
@@BringDHouseDown the fact that Arthas willingly picked up Frostmourne makes him responsible for everything he did under its influence.
I hate how they did arthas. He deserves so much more as he was as much a pawn as anybody.
Agreed
Sylvanas Windrunner was tasked with bringing every soul from the Maw to justice. We may yet see Arthas Menethil again.
@@KTA1sVidsandFacts from what I understood, he has no soul left and was wiped to potential double shadowlands
Dear Blizzard: Please can you stop vilifying Horde warchiefs now, thanks.
The Horde
Correction literally everyone!
And also stop making Night Elves kinda jokes
Main god of Night Elves when told she condemned a huge portion of the entire race for literally no reason for potentially eternal torment: "Whoops lol"
I'm not even horde and I agree with that though looking at it the horde did stir up a lot of shit so it makes since that they would continuously be the bbeg's
8:02 it's the amazing colossal man!
Weird how they never seem to acknowledge sylvanas’ crimes against the worgens
What's worse is they drop Fried Chicken and Watermelon.
yeah i was thinking the exact same thing. Gilneas was lost and it's population killed or enslaved by the forsaken and Genn's son and heir was killed by Sylvanas , yet it seems that after Genn and Sylvanas encounter in Legion everything was settled down. I just hope that by now at least Gilneas will come back as an existing and indipendent kingdom maybe with the nigth elves and gilneans living both in it.
Its also weird how any and all Alliance crimes are never once mentioned in game. Genn attacked the horde during the legion invasion and allowed the worgen into Gilneas
@@NinjaKuma what does that even mean lol
Did my boy arthus so bad. they redeem her like its nothing while also constantly acting like its arthas' fault he was mind controlled. its so fucking stupid.
But he wasn’t, just like bolvar wasn’t. Influence does not equal mind control. Arthas was not just corrupted by frostmourne and the lich kings(nerzul)/the jailers influence, but by his own destructive, and fanatical desire for control and self actualization. Sylvanas was not redeemed either, she was held accountable and given just judgement. Arthas’ end keeps his story tragic, he did not get redemption, Justice, or judgement outside of uthers vengeance. In the end he was a tool as others had been to him, and his soul expended burned into nothing, an utterly tragic end to what started as noble cause.
I would agree that Arthas' demise was his own mentality. I would argue that makes him far more interesting than 'Oh, this random, unknown bad guy made me do it.' That said, I agree that it's not fair to have turned Sylvanas into this big super villian and then suddenly write it off when Arthas gets side-stepped by the writers over and over. Of course people are going to want an Arthas redemption story. This one was so poorly written no one is satisfied.
@@unlockdaniel
Except that wasn’t the crown of domination that corrupted arthas, but frostmourne, that stole his soul as well as the souls of his victims. Bolvar didn’t have to deal with that. Bolvar didn’t loose his soul and his human qualities, and they helped him in his beating of the dark influence of the crown. Arhas was stripped of his compasion, love and mercy, togheter with his main defence against external corrupting influence.
Sylvanas had a torned soul and that was enought to change her deeply, lading her to remorslessly lots of things that nearly broke her immediately after it was restored. Arthas had a torned sould, the mind influence of the lich king (and against that even Sylvanas could absolutely nothing as long as it could still reach her) AND after that the mind influence of the jailer, against which arthas as the lich king still fought as much as Bolvar.
Arthas had all the deck stacked against him, Sylvanas and Bolvar had only a few card against. The only one coming close to the same situati in was Anduin, and in his case there was no manipulation in effect, while arthas was also masterfully manipulated since the start and never knew as far the manipulation really went.
@@thehartofthegalexi8433 exactly turning sylvanas into a scapegoat for shitty storyline, windrunner stood for something not this utterbullshit and weakness they showed. all those sisters were some sort of LEADING personality.
@@marcorizzoni9766 Thank you! Finally someone understand the original lore. Blizz messed up this whole Shadowlands. They bent and twisted the lore so hard just to make Anduin "bad, but not a real bad so we can bring him back" , in the same time they fcked up Arthas and Sylvanas original story and they created a paradox or we could say a nonsense.
Still can't get over the fact that she's trying to strangle an Undead.
... is there not a scene for how Sylvannas meets the Jailor? ... or the how/why they chose Anduin to become a LK-type pawn and apparently had Arthas' soul in him (?)
Nah, she was just chilling with him at the start of the expansion.
Since warcraft 3 i love seeing Sylvanas character until now and i'm still looking forward to see her or be part in the future expansion. I hope they introduced her as strong as last time she seen...💙
One can hope...
She won't be part of it. She's in the Maw and will be for quite some time. I think Blizzard realizes they leaned too heavily on her for the past few expansions. People are tired of her.
For the forsaken and our queen!
@@du4lstrik3 we will wait for eternity. You knoe blizzard will somehow bring her back like they did eith thrall haha. The council wont let her go. I bet you arthas will come back too😅 😂😂
@@ryohazuki605 Dude it's not even Blizzard anymore. It's Activision now. And WoW is a dying game. Who cares about any of this. Sylvanas is a crap character anyway. Get a GF and let the video game character obsession go.
that outro was awesome
So, everyone else that was controlled by the Jailer(as well as the Little Lion)that committed atrocities get to go on with their lives. Seems Tyranda has hair up her ..... Seems really unfair that Sylvanas is the only one to be punished.
30:36 this is out of order, since just before that we see Tyrande return to her priest version... however, I wonder how she felt when she was being returned and heard Elune say that she was responsible for letting Darnassus and all that resided within it to die.... for nothing... ... All that hate pointed at Sylvanas and it wasn't even really Sylvanas' fault she was the bullet but the protector disappeared to LET that tree and countless Nelfs to die...
Why does the Jailer mumble rap each time he tries to speak? I can't understand shit
It's the new age bs, not the old-school style
Kinda sad there wasn’t more of Arthus. Like bringing him back to life etc. but the story and cinematics is awesome
Maybe I’m crazy but I’m patiently waiting for for the return of my favorite character, Sylvanas. Maybe they’ll bring her back or even redeem her The War Within.
Nice upload, not sure they are in the right order though.
This is missing the Sylvanas vs Tyrande fight at the start of 9.1.
It's in it.. 28:43
@@VARY78 oh i see, just out of order. thanks!
Arthas Menethil is not dead. He will live forever in our hearts.
And in WoW Classic
Well, he is dead, like dead dead. Probably not much left of him by now.
I am currently playing WotLK. I Love Arthas. I just hate that he destroyed so many innocent people. Oh well!! Who in power hasn't sent innocent people to their deaths? (War/soldiers etc).
Sylvanas Windrunner was tasked with bringing every soul from the Maw to justice. We may yet see Arthas Menethil again.
stupid simp
36:07 so beautiful where the alliance kingdoms imagine without Horde Scourge and Legion a perfect world (not without peace because there be gnolls)
oh boy they did arthas dirty hardcore
I know it may be cry. Funny to said but my dad is/was able to voice arthas menethil which in turn may me see my dad in Arthas. I made a whole Orginal character because of Arthas menethil. He does not desever to be forgotten. Yes his actions where awful to put it lightly but he should not me forgotten.
@@ghostraven1948 Arthas wont ever be forgotten
@@TheBrimfire I know that right. from the players to Jainie will remeber Arthas.
Wow, they really just did Arthas THAT dirty?? And gave SYLVANAS a forced redemption arc? Did they read a fanfic from tumblr or something?
''Your legacy is at an end and you are forgotten'' - *idiotic writing* . Literally Uther and Sylvanas are standing there, he shattered the old Alliance, he destroyed Quel'Thalas and almost all the high/blood elves. Destroyed Lordaeron and ended a long line of kings, helped Ilidan aquire Guldans skull and become what he is, THEN LATER KILLED HIM (which they retconned), summoned the Legion on Azeroth then sabotaged the Legion in their invasion of Kalimdor. He is literally unforgetable and his actions STILL affect the present, his legacy will always be here, amazing character but no, Blizz does him dirty for some unknown reason and forces everyone to love Sylvanas and give her a redemption arc with some asspulled facts about her and her soul.
They retconned so many things of the original lore in the last 8 years because they knew the crap they made up along the way would make even less sense than it does now.
I know. freaking I may a whole orginal character that is his daughter because my dad could sound like him so that encourge me write it. I been having a hard time trying to fit her in the lore and explain her powers. But nooo blizz had to come and do this shit
Sylvanas gets to experience better end game content than the D4 community.
Was that hard to turn on subtitles?
Wait so why exactly did sylvannas do what she did towards the end??
she thought the jailor would bring freedom not another shackle arround the neck thats why she said no,and in the end she wanted to redeem herelf by savig the souls she condemed,and this is why she is one of my favorite charcs.
Bad writing, and some sort of Kink for redemption arcs.
@@Tacomancr She must be the most complex best writen character in all of fiction the fk are you talking about.
@@fracmas5481 TRUE
@@fracmas5481are you serious 😂
Still think that that burned tree which are mostly the main "crime" that are incriminate to Sylvanas (and when things starts to go completely wrong) was too lame to make the Rescurer of the undead into another crazy bitchy Jaina with so many missteps and internal argues... She was so strong as a person who managed to escape the fate of a pawn and yet at the end they've made her nothing more than a crying baby inside with that damn tree on a background. Its just nonsense how she've managed to get that far
Feels like the writters didn't actually understand her character arc from Warcraft 3 to Wrath of the Lich King, because it was amazing...
If any character overstayed their welcome in WOW it was Sylvanas. I thought Gul'dan was bad, but she is on a whole new level of annoying.
She was really good up until the end of WOTLK, after that it got messy.
She had purpose when it came to eliminating Arthas/Lich King but after that it became self-preservation after she witnessed the Maw after she threw herself from Ice Crown Citadel
@@NinjaKuma Agreed. I liked her back in the day when playing WC3. Had an interesting story, and was a sympathetic character. After that she turned into some cliched, cocky villain that seemed to be more of a pet project for some Blizzard fanboy.
She'll come back, that's why they sat her in the Maw, so they can just get us maw walkers to yeet her back up to relevance, cause she sells well, while all us old farts just wanted to see Arthas one more time.
@@Antech666 old farts lol
@@NinjaKuma I think that is when Jailer took the piece of her soul that contains her conscience, because you know, when she realised what she caused, she suicided, Jailer couldn't have that if he has to manipulate her to his ends, that psychopathic "self-preservation" started after that (check "Edge of Night" story) in my opinion.
I really hope they don't bring Sylvanus back, Blizzard keeps recycling characters over and over again and it's gotten very annoying. I also hope Sylvanus is the last of abysmal warchiefs the horde keeps being given, it's hard to root for a faction that has consistantly had genocidal maniacs running it.
Love Windrunner but agreed. I get the point is that when you lose a great leader, it can be followed by successions of incompetence and chaos (Thrall stepping down after WOTLK) and Vul was the closest we had to a rightful leader but even then, the brother only lasted an expansion and was never really given the full respect he deserved.
I miss the simpler times when there was the Lich king n that was the biggest threat/almost passive threat as long as you stayed well away from certain places but I suppose escalation and climax is inevitable.... But I do miss the time. I literally haven't really played much since wrath, I played a bit in warlords but not again since.... Not entirely sure about all the story/lore/explanations either but meh. Just more n more new shit for new and old players who can tolerate an endless grind but then again thats what the game is meant to do, to make money.
I mean it’s the same thing… yes in Wrath the lunch king was the biggest threat, and now shadowlands the jailor is the biggest threat… I don’t get your point
@@instincthaun3073 stupid story, stupid villain, stupid concept, stupid ending and of course it only gets worse and worse as they try to crank out more expansions and make up all kinds of new crap that doesn't even line up with the original story. I don't like it and i don't play it, that is the point.
@@ShaggyTheClown17 Everyone feels that way. That's why the game is dead, once the classic servers lose population because it gets boring after a while and it's not a competitive game, I think they will lose the players for good. Microsoft might revive it or might make it worse, I don't get my hopes up and it's still a long time until they take over, Blizzard might completely kill the game before they get their hands on it.
They had great choices:
1. Make this game competitive. Fix every bug, balance classes and specs. If they had done this before wrath then as a result WoW would have dethroned Counter Strike as the most popular PvP game in the world at that time and continued to grow from there.
2. Focus on storylines and PvE content and no other MMO can compete because you have billions to invest at your disposal
But they chose:
3. Shut up nerd, give me your money and don't expect anything from my billion dollar corporation developing this game at all
The only sad thing is they could have made enough money off of the reasonable other choices, it's just they weren't clever enough to pull it off back then, now that they've learned from others they can make money with Overwatch. They probably made the most money possible with the path they took, but they killed off the game in the process, and that might not even be reasonable if you look at it purely from a financial perspective because diminishing the brand value for money isn't always the most profitable thing to do. Arguably growing the brand even further would have created opportunities for even more profits, but like I said they were to ignorant/lazy/greedy for quick cash to even consider this.
@@アマ-p2l PVP in MMO is NOT and will never be as popular as PvE. PVP in MMOs is a niche. Even with perfect balance, it would be. The time invest to even get started in an MMO to PVP compared to any PVP only game is already one of the big factors.
@@otrikas Yes but at the time it was a very popular niche and WoW was one of if not THE most popular game in the world. Overwatch is a niche and has 7 million players. The only thing that stopped Blizzard from exploring this niche and seeing how much potential there is was the fact that WoW PVP is impossible to televise. Without investing the time nobody understands what's going on so you can only target WoW players as an audience for your tournament streams. And if you can't use your tournaments to draw attention to your game then your marketing department will have "better" ideas.
Also focusing on PvP would not have been such a big deal, the popularity of classic servers and the fact that TBC private servers have now made money for like 15 years and are still going shows that theoretical assumptions don't apply to players who have made a big emotional investment in the game.
But like I said, it was entirely a financial question, and at the time game developers didn't try out new things such as new payment/revenue models and so on.
With everything we know now, I believe they should have split the game into two versions or further separated the PvP modes, the only issue with balance was their greed (selling new expansions), so they could have just created a mode where you can't use all the completely buggy and imbalanced new spells and gear and instead only use balanced spells and gear. They could have easily made money off of this using clever revenue models, but I guess Blizzard could have never been the first to for example use micro-transactions because they never needed any money, they always made enough revenue, so it makes sense their plan to maximize profits was to secretly and slowly ruin the game to increase profits over the years.
They could have completely separated these modes and sold 1 PvE game and 1 PvP game. And if PvE was really the focus then they could have used their revenue to actually develop a good PvE game, only producing half as many expansions but making the content twice as good.
Imo none of their decisions ever made sense, not even if you only look at profits which is what they always did. But that's easy for me to say now that game developers have so many more ways to make money without ruining their game, and it's easy to say this after the long term success of WoW. I always thought WoW would remain popular but that's not really a long term prediction a business can make. There was a lot of competition back then.
TL;DR: There are probably thousands of players with no understanding of economics or business who would have done a better job than Blizzard if they were put in charge. Any changes they would've made would've been risky at the time. But now that we know it wasn't just a couple of nerds who were as invested in the game as you can be, and now that we know that the subscription model and selling buggy and stupid expansions isn't the undisputed ultimate revenue model, it's very clear that Blizzard hasn't made good decisions. You can argue maximizing profits by ruining the game was reasonable, but imo it's a case of mismanagment, there hasn't been a game with more potential ever since. They were scared of Guild Wars and milked the players for a decade. If they had instead milked the potential of the game I believe it would be much more popular than Fortnite or Minecraft now.
41:50 wtf is Varok doing here?!
Considering these are memories and not souls, I am going to assume that it is because both Varian and Varok were very impactful in Anduin's development. Saurfang's was much shorter, but it shows that their short time together was very meaningful to Anduin.
At least that's how I interpret that scene.
he used the blade before thats why.
He's his other dad
Actualy i think because there have to be one leader from the Aliance and one from the Horde.
It has all to do with the lore of varian and that blade
Was Tyrande always so built?!
What you mean by built, strength?
@@mhkuntug ye nigga
Dear Sylvanas, i love you but. If i hear “nothing lasts” in that voice i will throw us both over my window
It kind of hurt when she says begon then arthas menethil etc etc 😅
I'm getting sick of the "but there's a greater threat out there" bullshit. I could take it from Sargeras since we know exactly what he was afraid of (Void Lords) and that explained why he turned against the Titans.
Using the same motivation for two different big bads is just crap, and this time, we have absolutely no idea about anything that drove the Jailer. We don't know the threat he foresaw, we don't know the exact nature of the Sepulcher (classic macguffin), we don't know why he wanted to make a new reality that served him exclusively (other than generic villain motivations), we don't know shit.
After all of the retconning they did to WC3, TBC, Wrath, and Legion, I'd expect them to flesh out the character a bit. What we got was generic bad guy.
Overall I mostly enjoyed the expanding of the lore to let us learn more about the cosmic forces of this universe, and the emotional arcs were very well done, but The Jailer was a huge letdown.
100%
"we don't know why he wanted to make a new reality that served him exclusively" that would be the "I hate the order of the existence, I know better, and if I relinquished control after all I've done, everything I've done will be undone." mindset. But this doesn't bode well with "I saw a threat and if all the cosmos isn't under my control, we will fail." Story feels like it changed hands one too many time than it should to actually be coherent.
Also, makes me think that Jailer thinks the First Ones themselves are the real threat. Otherwise why would he need everyone to agree with him without hesitation.
His actions on the other hand, from this point of view, universally scaled version of Sylvanas. Corrupting Sargeras with dreadlords, breaking order and peace everywhere to convince others that system is broken. There's a saying in Turkish, "Tell me who your friends is, and I'll tell you who you are." That explains all BS coming from Sylvanas. But doesn't explain Jailer's BS.
Time stamps my man. Damn.
After WoTLK, there has been quite the drop in WoW's storytelling quality.
WoTLK was the last expansion lore I liked and I'm sure many of the Warcraft fans feel the same.
Besides, they did Arthas and Maiev so dirty in this one all while glorifying Sylvanas and Tyrande instead. Let me elaborate, both Sylvanas and Tyrande have been some of the most hypocritical characters during the story while Arthas and Maiev were quite blunt and straight forward and that's why I personally loved them a lot more.
Yea, yea, many will probably hate me for my opinion but whatever, it remains my opinion and the fact remains they didn't treat the characters fairly and favored some in expense of others.
And don't get me started with the bullshit nihilistic and new world order bullshit ideas they were pushing hardcore down the audience throat when Sylvanas was having those talks with Anduin like wtf..WoW's lore ideas used to be a bit more family friendly than this, now its lore ideas are becoming bit like old Assassins Creed games like AC 1 and 3
Legion had top tier storytelling outside of that I agree with the storytelling quality having dropped, in particular storytelling and lore consistency... Arthas had good intentions in Stratholme but when he took up Shadowmourne he relished in its power, recognized it corrupting him and thought he was righteous enough to overcome it... When he took up the helm he sat frozen on that throne fighting with Ner'zhul for control, he eventually won, but he lost all remanence of his old self by that point further relishing in the power and no longer caring for his previous self or his previous life or the connections he had. He wanted to turn all into undeath to increase his power even further... It is unclear how much influence the Jailer had in this, just as it is unclear how much influence he had over Sylvanas after she delved too far into the realm of death in Legion... it is clear she worked for the Jailer throughout BFA he was the hand that guided the war between the Horde and the Alliance, and while it was Elune who let the world tree be burnt down it was still Sylvanas who was being manipulated by the Jailer who did it..
@@tiny99990 "Shadowmourne he relished in its power, recognized it corrupting him and thought he was righteous enough to overcome it" at that moment that was already the corruption talking, not Arthas, cause let's be honest, would the Arthas before picking that sword, ever shed a single drop of elven blood in Silvermoon? while leading an undead army of all things to do it? no of course not
If you think about it Sylvanas wasn't the real reason for what happened to Shadowlands! She was accused for what Denathrius, Devos and the other Houses in Maldraxxus did!
Valid.
a truly incredible amount of ads at the worst moments.
Fkn TH-cam, let me see if I can fix it
The general idea is not bad, the dialogue feels like fanfic and should have been cooked a bit longer, but making Sylvanas a character with no agency since she's basically a pawn without free will, was stupid as fk. Her redemption was too cheap for a character that good.
The fact that the new arbiter didn’t just pull up every soul from the Maw and rejudge them so as to sort out those who didn’t belong their quickly, efficiently is… awful. So, what? Just let the countless innocents suffer for another million eons till Sylvanas maybe happens to find them all? Right… great…
Tyrande's delivery really fell flat. Her judgment could have carried weight and wisdom, a seemingly endless punishment that also hinted at redemption and salvation... instead the VA decided to go with petulant edgy girlboss. Ugh.
Welcome to 2023
I gave up on this company before they put this expansion out But I saw where the story was going for my Dark Lady💀🖤
You mean The Corpse Bitch?
They did her dirty
@@elxolotl She was too good at warfare and being the Queen of the damned she was near unstoppable picking up just more strong fallen bodies💀⚰️
Sylvanas did nothing wrong!
Everyone feeling Arthas was done dirty while Sylvannas got gold are missing the point and its not even that deep or that bad of story-telling. Sylvanas becomes like Arthas or at the very least, helps elevate another Arthas type of figure (The Jailer). She ends up doing the "Shadow-Work" necessary to come to terms with her "shadows" and then owns her mistakes. Her acceptance into the Maw is her atonement for the crimes she's done. She wasn't just given a redemption, she EARNED it.
Arthas on the other hand, was NEVER sorry for the crimes he committed. Even at death, what we saw wasn't a man of remorse but a man in fear of oblivion. Never, did Arthas show ANY remorse in any of his crimes, even at the plea of others. In the novel depicting Sylvanas return to ICC post-WOTLK. We see that she *unalives* herself, and see Arthas in a state of purgatory. Even in this realm, he isn't sorry or even comfortable in his own condemnation. Instead, He's a boy who cowers, and screams while being ripped apart. As if to show that even in his most vulnerable state, Arthas retreats back to a portion of himself not innocent, but of victimization. Meaning even in death and with the understanding of his crimes, Arthas still believed he was innocent, righteous, or justified.
This is why Arthas is done like this. If there is a part of his soul that still contains the light, it must be somewhere in the Maw, because whether it be WC3, WOTLK, or SoD - we don't see any fragments of that light but instead our projections of the hero we once knew. That is kind of a real-world feeling of grief and mourning the loss of a relationship and expectation of a person's behavior.
So alot of yall can look at this all as a bad story to milk Sylvanas and etc etc etc. But really its surface level archetypal story-telling. You just don't like it because the hero you want isn't being championed.
You clearly dont know shit about Arthas.
Elric of melnibone Easter egg with the twin cursed blades
For the first time I get this connective feeling about both their last names. Windrunner and whisperwind.....
I havent really played shadowlands at all but it seems like they got really fricken lazy and just made everything the jailers fault??? was this supposed to be last xpac?? idk jsut seems really bad lol... such a strange way to tie up a bunch of loose ends, it seems like someone smoked themselves stupid and tried telling a story to a friend. and ofc Correct me if im wrong guys/gals..
ur completely not wrong my friend
Am i the only true classic / orcs vs humans pre warcraft universe, true old school player here that enjoyed the all the expansions So far ? yes may i have another
Same as you except Warlords of Draenor, which with the exception of the Draenei areas like Shadowmoon Valley felt like a major chore.
17:20 what is her name? The one who can bring back to life
Winter Queen
This would have been much better if the cinematics were in the proper order...
O.o
Which ones are mixed up?
@@NinjaKuma The one where Elune speaks through Tyrande is supposed to happen after Tyrande fights Sylvanas and there was one other I forgot. Think it was about Anduin.
@@NinjaKuma Just checked. The end of the Sepulcher Raid. Anduin being released from the Jailer's control happens before the Jailer standing before the Azeroth globe on the floor. And the one where Sylvanas is talking and walking amongst memories happens after that Anduin one, before the Jailer standing one.
We (the Forsaken) love our leader, no matter what she does.
The lore is lame, compared to Warcraft 3.
Agreed.
Lmao the lore just gets dumber and dumber and all of it is so inconsequential
I can't wait to see how they'll ruin the dragonflight next
Why they disrespect my boy arthas like that, why the last words had to be from sylvanas, not even Uther or Jaina said something 😢
playing ads during wow cinematics for me is like playing ads or getting interrupted by someone while watching LOTR movies. I can not tolerate this (Specially when something too delicate is about to happen in the cinematic). I would understand that a channel that create copied contents needs ads for its survival but it can be shown at the beginning or end of the clip.
I agree, however I don't pick placements TH-cam does
, Then I'm sorry, forgive me. but f youtube then
They ruined a legacy brand with last minute changes to the game before the expansion lore and now we have a regular undead blood elf to toil in their idea of hell, without being a banshee queen (or powers) her task is going to be a bitch.
who says she doesnt have these powers stil? and her powers where also enhanced by the jailor which she has now lost,and she is annything but a reguler undead blood elf :)
@@Marcustheseer Regular in the sense she is no longer a banshee (as she is whole again) and can’t access her banshee powers or those bestowed by the jailer. It is more about the fact that they ruined the character rather than her current form.
@@ConsciousEntrepeneur oke maybe although i think its stil unclear what powers she has now.
50 minutes of the WoW lore being butchered. What a time to be alive :D
😞
The question to ask is, what did the Jailer see that drove him to this?
I think he saw the Void spirits probably the end game of wow. You can look them up they are the most powerful beings in the wow universe The burning legion was created by sargeras bcz of the void spirits the Old gods are conected to the void spirits not gonna go into detail but u should look it up why sargeras created the Burning legion its scary.
I still don't get the plan: creation is flawed for some unexplained or at least poorly explained reason, so instead we're going to destroy it all and rebuild it into... what? A perfect world? A world without will? A world where free will is all there is, which would not be different from the world before? I... didn't get the plan back then and ever after watching these.... Still don't.
This is so random and like not in chronological way 😜
Arthas just would....kill her...no, its sexism now.
“This WORLD is a prison!”
thats... what happened to sylvannas...
sigh... cant wait in the next expansion peopel will need her blablabla
Good job putting all the scenes together...ads every 5 minutes is disheartening although I guess we have to pay the price for admission
I blame TH-cam, they auto'd the ads..
use the thing that ends up blockings thosethings xd
@@Mexican00b Do you mean adblockers?
@@mhkuntug ye nigga
Oh finally her character arc is over...fuck yes
Man, Sylvana's intentions were good and she's the only character who realised that no one have free will and that we're all in a *uckin' prison. She's the best character ever introduced in WoW lore and that's why she's one of my fav characters.
Tyrande vs sylvanas and recreation of elunes tear is out of order fyi
Also it was Elune who burned the tree, still she is blaming Sylvanas....
I think it was more like she let sylvanas burn the tree, elune could of intervened or done more to save teldrassil but she didn't because she thought she was helping the winter queen with their soul drought at the time
This story is so unnecessarily complicated. I don't understand why there are so many layers to afterlife and shit, I still don't get how this whole shit works and how it even makes sense, it seems there isn't even a higher being or faith for anyone, even hell is controlled by some mortal beings. I'm probably gonna have to read the Sylvanas book since that is way more coherent. It's not clear at all whether Sylvanas was banished to the maw until every soul gets out of there or if she'll remain alone until the end of time, and how getting out of there even works. I've also always thought that Sylvanas' rightful end would be to kill herself and this time somehow be forgiven for her sins, just my opinion though.
Something about so many different beliefs and so many gods and possible afterlifes
It's meant to be the afterlife for all worlds like Azeroth, Argus, K'aresh, Mardum, and others. There are like 10 to 15 different planets listed in the lore and those are just the ones we know about. The Shadowlands are supposed to be the afterlife for all worlds in the universe (apart from the Emerald Dream). It feels like what we're seeing is just a base version of them for the sake of the story. The higher faiths common among all of the worlds are "Light" and "Shadow." The most prevalent concept of a higher faith among the known races simply refers to the "Light." Sylvanas' punishment is meant to feel insurmountable and eternal because she's been sent there to free every soul that's been put there since the dawn of time, but it still offers "Hope," which is what one of the main plots of the whole story was about, that one day she'll complete her sentence and be free to return to the rest of the Shadowlands to eventually reunite with her family after they have died.
Idk why I see sylvanis and anduin becoming a thing
The shadowlands storytelling was the worst aspect of the expansion. Sure the voice acting, cinematics, music and visuals were all top notch, but the writing itself and choices made were some of the worst to come out of blizzard.
Blizzard never lost their touch in regards of cinematics. Always been great at it. Since the strategy games, to Shadowlands. But Shadowlands is about the worst expansion Blizzard has ever released till this day. Their orgasmic love for Sylvanas went too far. Turning a Paladin into a Death Knight, has "neeeever" been seen before. 🙄
I stopped playing the game cause of this, as it was just another farming expansion. I do love Warcraft lore, but the lore in this is just... It's not well thought through. I am well aware of why Sylvanas has done all what she has done, but she should've died after fighting the Lich King, or died when the whole of Azeroth declared war on her. Saurfang shouldn't have died and Sylvanas should've been killed. And if not there, she should've been ended in her fight with Tyrande, who had the god damn strength given to her, by a freaking powerful entity that would easily undo Sylvanas as a person.
But noooo-no-no-no. Sylvanas is still Blizzards favourite, and is meant to win it all. Fucking stupid move from Blizzard. (I wonder if they've taken up the habbits of destroying a game, from speaking with EA.)
It's been the weakest story so far, their weakest expansion and their weakest attempt to try and create something new with those there factions you can choose between, when it just turns into yet another faction, we just have to farm for, and for what? Whoopty-do. Gear that we can upgrade. If they had to make something "new" mechanic, then freaking make it a new one, and not have them create yet the same all over from previous patches, and then "outfitting" them with newer "clothes."
Just because you polish a turd, doesn't make it less of a turd.
(Fyi. For people wanting to reply to this with a comment. I wont reply as this is just my reaction to the expansion.)
sylvanas was my favorite...she's so hardcore!
I miss Vol'jin.
The CGI was of much lower quality than the original but very good nonetheless.
CAN ANYBODY PLEASE TELL ME WHAT IS THE NAME OF THE GUY THAT HAS A MASK WITH HORNS, TWO SWORDS BEHIND HIS BACK AND THE ONE WHO GLOWS WITH MAGIC? THIS GUY PROBABLY DOESN'T APPEAR IN THIS VIDEO. I HAVE SHADOWLANDS EPISODE 1 BUT AS A GAME MOVIE.
Illidan Stormrage?
Darion Mograine, I guess
@@tyh8308 thanks very very much
GG
Sylvanis choice makes no sense
Shadowlands was my favorite expansion, it was beautiful in its own way
What happened to this game it used to look so good
İyiye iyi kötüye kötüyüm kötünün iyi oluşu iyinin kötü oluşu umrumda dehil ne mutlu iyilere ve ne iyi ne kötüye aptallar iyiyle kötüyü kariştirandir
???
Throwing her into the maw and simply forget about her is probably the best. So sick of that character.
Dude wtf, why did you not put it in chronological order? Dislike
This game died when legion came and the lore died when pandaria came
This remains the worst expansion in WoW's history.
no no. worst in history > mists of panderia
or cataclysm
@@Joebauers2505 Lore wise maybe but content wise Mists was no where near the worst. Overall worst goes to WoD. Introduction of Garrisons, the most content dry expansion, terrible continuity it was all horrible.
@@genesisjax4023 Agreed Lore wise but i suppose i can agree on the wod being worst content but to be fair theyre all shit after wrath. just more of a grind for nothing. shit story concepts and otherwise
Mists pvp was the best pvp.
I don't know BFA was pretty bad too. Story wise I liked Shadow Lands better.
now when i see sylvanas she aint that evil as i thought
na she evil
@@TheBronf she is but in thoose cinematics she do not look like she is evil
@@nix6466 ahhh lol lets ignore when she murdered Saurfang, when she stated the horde is nothing or worst of all, when she burned down teldrassil
@@dragorank8167 ye ye yea ! i remember all of it . i just said that in those cinematics she do not look like she is evil but she is
You know when people talk about psychopaths, they're being described as people who are devoid of empathy, so they become manipulative, violent or whatever it takes to get their way, because they only care about themselves and their goals.
She was a Jailer-made psychopath. When she got injected with the missing part of herself, she couldn't take everything she's done. That's why you think that.
And you're partially right about this, like everyone else, her actions are evil, but she as a *_WHOLE_* person, is not.
they did Arthas dirty, Sylvanas got redeemed by a feminist agenda after almost destroying the world several times and generating tragedies even bigger than those of the death knight, while Arthas got thrown as an unforgivable criminal that his only crime was to protect his people at any cost.
This is how stupid and incoherent the Shadowlands writers where, they have Sylvanas serve the very man who created the Lich King and who made Sylvanas a banshee, not to mention Kel'thuzad serving him alongside her? This was very dumb story telling. Sylvanas hated the Lich King and Kel'thuzad now suddenly she serves on the same side they did? Not to mention how they disregarded Arthas and ruined his character. Such lazy writing. This was why I checked out of this game its lore was ruined by some college students who have no love for the game and no respect its lore or what came before.
Agreed. They were interns btw.
"This is how stupid and incoherent the Shadowlands writers where, they have Sylvanas serve the very man who created the Lich King and who made Sylvanas a banshee, not to mention Kel'thuzad serving him alongside her?"
And she was dumb enough to think she was doing all this to break a dictating system and bring free will.
Who wrote this garbage? I'm glad i skipped that expansion.
my queen !😭noooo !💔
☝️SIMP☝️
Ugh Tyrande is so damn annoying. Just like Maiev. Can’t think of any other characters as annoying and boring as these two. Like two mosquitos buzzing and pecking. Sylvanas and Illidan will always reign supreme because they are so relatable.
Truth.
shadowlands 🤢🤢🤢🤢🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮
i still can't come to even slightly like tyrande, I just always disliked her character even tho she never did anything bad... so ngl, wasn't pleasure watching her in those cinematics xD and yet, even tho sylvanas did some nasty things (can't forgive writers for butchering her character and now trying to undo it - tho i appreciate it) i still can't come to hate her either :D
I feel the opposite lol