The fact that the stories resemble each other, sometimes even quite closely, is something one should expect when assuming that all nations have a common origin. According to the Old Testament, people initially gathered in Babel (Mesopotamia, the homeland of Abraham). Except for the Hamites, people dispersed across the earth only after the confusion of languages. They carried the memories of these events with them and passed them down through generations. Some details were lost along the way, while others were added or reinterpreted. Therefore, similarities are frequently found. The fact that the flood story in the Epic of Gilgamesh, for example, was recorded before the writing of the biblical text is at most evidence that the Sumerians, among all others, developed a written language first, but not that their story is older or actually true. While they were already writing down their version of the story, other nations continued to pass it down orally.
We don't know Gilgamesh was recorded pre-bible. Abraham's people were literate for over 300 years before he was born. Prior to the printing press, it was a matter of scholarship and pride to make your own copies from master texts. As for Gilgamesh, please remember he was part of the same basic culture as Abraham.
I’m confused what you mean by the Hamites not being in Mesopotamia, but only being dispersed after the spontaneous generation of new languages. Did they just aperate out of the air into the planes of America and China at the appointed time?
I'm pretty sure Rob from Sentinel Apologetics is running Dr Heiser's website and/ or this YT channel. Super grateful for Rob! Rob has always been a rather significant portion of Heisers you tube presence. Particularly in the early years of Dr Mike's ministry. The Han Solo days
The fact that many cultures have similar creation/origin stories is strong evidence that the creation account in the Book of Genesis is true. After the Flood, Noah's sons and their offspring spread across the earth. Undoubtedly, they took the knowledge of the Flood with them. Over thousands of years, these stories orally and textually transmitted, eventually morphing into folklore and mythology. There remains a kernel of truth.
the flood myths were way before genesis or when the bible was written. not after. so if anything the bible writers took these ideas and made it their own
I don't think that the Old Testament was copied from ancient texts. It's entirely possible that the writers of the Old Testament were telling the same story from a different perspective. For example, a group of people can see the same thing occur. When asked individually what they saw, each person will tell a slightly different version of the same event. Each version will differ according to their own level of understanding.
The “story” from the Old Testament is 100% historical fact. It IS the “story” of humanity. It is not “copied” from anything. It’s SETTING THE RECORD STRAIGHT, a corrective response TO those exact texts certain fools purport it to be “copied” from.. It’s saying, “no, THIS is the way it actually happened, the so-called gods you’re worshipping are rebellious fallen angelic beings, not the true creator above all”.. That is largely the point of the Old Testament. And to tell us all of the coming of the messiah, everything Christ would come to do was prophesied all over the place centuries upon centuries before he ever walked the earth.
@@dazdavis7896yes, and as you can see with other religions like Hinduism, some of their “Gods” are a mix of different animals or canaanites and moloch he looks like a Goat of sorts , in the Bible some angels are described as having lion heads, bear heads…etc
Reversing Hermon next, but beyond that im mot sure it matters. Especially if you already knocked out U.R. I know he released Angels right before Demons. May get his Book of Enoch companion book sooner than later. He has more gems than many people realize.
What if a lot of these old religions had pieces of the puzzle of who God was and the Old Testament writers along the way copied bits of those pieces to make the full story and Jesus came to set the record straight. A majority of religions all over the globe since the beginning of time have had Gods that tell the story of creation or are centered in the concept of good and evil. The word of the lord is written on all of our hearts and he has revealed himself to us through creation and to some people divine intervention. I think a lot of older religions were similar to biblical accounts because maybe God was making himself known and influencing all cultures in tiny bits. The Israelites just took all the right pieces of the puzzle and then Jesus came to validate that truth. Im just saying hypothetically…
@leahhathaway2796 My thoughts, too. It's great to know there are others out there who have the same assumptions about this topic, whether proven right or wrong . I used to wonder how the bible old testament's accounts of creation n the great flood might have similarities with ancient myths and texts? Did the OT authors plagiarise bits and pieces from various older sources n compile stories in the OT? But then I also realized that since God is the creator of the universe - what makes us think He wouldn't show Himself to different people in different situations in different cultures in different historical periods, BEFORE the OT was recorded much later? Zoroastrianism is another ancient religion that predates Judaism n Christianity that has biblical beliefs like heaven n hell, good verses evil, a messianic figure etc
We must look at the region in question indeed. The Ancient Civilizations and City-States if the region traded and shared many things. Among these were stories and tales of gods and legends. Each culture adding their own spin on these stories. Lots of ideas were shared.
I like to use the old "telephone" game analogy with this topic. Seeing that the events of the Old Testament happened in the Middle East that their myths and legends are going to have a garbled version of the truth to them while when you get further afield like in Ancient Greece or the opposite way say the Americas you're going to have very little left of the original stories save for huge events like the Flood.
I researched it and they say the same thing, the Pleiades did it, which happens to be the radiant of our most recent meteor stream. And it wasn't even "known" to science till 1950.
Listening to his "Naked Bible Podcast", in order, is amazing. I don't have advice for order of the books besides read the unseen realm 1st (which you did)
He wrote a couple "Brief Insights" books-if you want some lighter reading, they are a great introduction to his mode of thinking. "Brief Insights on Mastering Bible Doctrine," and "Brief Insights on Mastering the Bible"
Facade , Demons , Angels but my fav is a little book “ What God Wants” which helped me as I lived under condemnation for years thinking I had to perform in order to b saved. It’s the gospel but explained to a simpleton like myself. Blessings to u . All his books r full of knowledge
I really like Dr. Heiser's work. It was a real loss when he passed away at such a young age from pancreatic cancer. However, I am struck by the disingenuineness with which he and the majority of Chrsitians approach such issues. In the case of the Epic of Gilgamesh and the Biblical flood narrative, Christians might not feel so attacked if they relaxed their need to lay an ownership claim for every figure and event found in the Old Testament. Perhaps we could simply say that the Utnapishtim and Noah figures have a shared origin that united ancient peoples more than it divided them. Dr. Heiser's statement that ancient Hebrews interpreted the imago of man differently and therefore the JUdeo-Christian tradition is different from other ancient religions is a red herring and does not speak to the similarities of the stories. Engaging Tablet XI from various scholars is striking in the similarities to the Noah narrative. These similarities are archetypal and challenge the reader to consider imagoes that may consciously inform one's life story. Finally, a tincture of syncretism as practiced by the Ancient Catholic Church would subsume the Gilgamesh narrative to make the Christian perspective bigger in the long run without diluting a Christian religious hegemony.
Epic of gilgamesh is the source text for noah. The bible is a remix of the older more ancient sumerian, acadian and babylonian stories among others. The bible even admits that abram and sarai came from ur (a sumerian city). Also original torah stories are about the elohim (the powerful ones) and the name yahweh was inserted into earlier text. Text that were written before "God" revealed that name. That is a revision to create a seemingly contiguous story line from genesis forward. Enuma elish tablet 6 is the story of "edin" and enki and enlil and the "Adamu" . The bible is a collection of curated books , papyrus's, cylindar scrolls, texts some plagiarized (see isaiah and the 3 authors). It was never written. Also if jesus was alone away from the sleeping disciples when he prayed "not my will be done..." who was there to write that down?
There are many examples, some verbatim and others diametric in order. If you have a doctorate in the OT you should be well aware of it. I find it interesting how things are "borrowed' and then slandering against the other cultures were it was obtained. I just read a apologetic book and not the only one that implies that the Hebrews taught the Chaldeans and Egyptians everything. Where did the omnipotent get the idea of riding the cherub with the Thunderweapon or Isis and Nefertiti on the ark? Some of these ideals are thirteen millennia old, I think you are being bias.
You’re missing the point that the oldest version of something is not necessarily the most accurate account of or a true interpretation of the same events. The Bible’s version of events is secured by the resurrection of Christ. Because that actually happened, and is foreshadowed throughout all the old testament and completely coherent with it, that is the version of events that we should care to affirm and understand.
God incorporated similar stories to show he is a superior God to the other Gods with similar stories except God shows how He cares about His people and fixes their problems
Many people are familiar with the story of three little pigs and the wolf right? Now the YT channel "Firearms Unknown" twisted/altered the story. It's similar with Jesus's parable about the lost son or prodigal son. It was the altered version of the ancient story to made a point across.
All scripture is inspired by God all means all that’s not hard to understand holy men of God were moved by the Holy Spirit to write His Word down so all of mankind can read His Word read and believe the Bible
It’s unlikely that any of the stories “copied” each other. All of the stories likely have their roots in the same verbal tradition of the ancient near east. The question is, what are they trying to communicate?
I think Mike got taken home because he became a apologist for natural mechanisms only, Since his influence was so great. I think I stumbled onto him in 2012 or 13
@@dondgc2298 you want me to elaborate on how Mike progressively resorted to explaining scriptural meanings and interpretation from a solely naturalistic mechanisms framework? Removing supernatural influence beyond circumstances. Which is essentially metaphysical only belief system? Ask you asking for that to be elaborated?
@@estimatingonediscoveringthree well since the whole body of his work focused on the supernatural I would have to disagree with your thoughts on Dr. Heiser’s teachings. But what I’m curious about is your statement that he “got taken home because…”. So you’re claiming that God killed Dr. Heiser for apostasy?
The OT has yet to be translated. The little- but significant- parts Kamal has tells different stories. “The Bible Came from Arabia”, Kamal Salibi,1985, plus his 3 other bible study books and blog for facts not fantasies.
@@ladyphoenixgrey3923 Sis, read first then ‘comment ‘ seriously siiiiista! His blog is a few pages: can you manage that; probably not. Grow up, lil’ sis. Laugh!
@@FromValkyrie And where is the Garden of Eden in said book? Junaynah at Dn- garden of Eden- located at 20/20 by 42/55 in Asir region western Arabia. Keep worshipping Odin. Or as suggested above break down and read the short blog- fat chance, hypocrite!
I hear this constantly and think it's hilarious. But that proves the Bible is right! All these cultures around the world with the same basic belief, all these peoples who started out as monotheistic. Anthropologists today say cavemen began with one God, and added more as time went on. But, Bible is likely the correct one because Abraham's people were literate for over 300 years before he came along.
The same could be said for other religions, since they all will claim they were the right ones all along, while the rest are distorted versions or an inaccurate recounting of events. For all we know, Mesopotamians were right, since they were the first to spread their stories.
![[Live สด] การออกรางวัลสลากกินแบ่งรัฐบาล งวดวันที่ 16 พฤศจิกายน 2567](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/wPd7VFfWHIA/mqdefault.jpg)
The fact that the stories resemble each other, sometimes even quite closely, is something one should expect when assuming that all nations have a common origin. According to the Old Testament, people initially gathered in Babel (Mesopotamia, the homeland of Abraham). Except for the Hamites, people dispersed across the earth only after the confusion of languages. They carried the memories of these events with them and passed them down through generations. Some details were lost along the way, while others were added or reinterpreted. Therefore, similarities are frequently found. The fact that the flood story in the Epic of Gilgamesh, for example, was recorded before the writing of the biblical text is at most evidence that the Sumerians, among all others, developed a written language first, but not that their story is older or actually true. While they were already writing down their version of the story, other nations continued to pass it down orally.
Spot on.
Hey Joe,that's pretty good in my opinion,I have always wondered why I haven't heard it more
We don't know Gilgamesh was recorded pre-bible. Abraham's people were literate for over 300 years before he was born. Prior to the printing press, it was a matter of scholarship and pride to make your own copies from master texts. As for Gilgamesh, please remember he was part of the same basic culture as Abraham.
I’m confused what you mean by the Hamites not being in Mesopotamia, but only being dispersed after the spontaneous generation of new languages. Did they just aperate out of the air into the planes of America and China at the appointed time?
@@marschlosser4540yes we do
A link to the original interview or the interviewer's name would be extremely helpful.❤
Where can we find the full interview please?
Insane, three of these videos in the same discussion have been posted today by the three primary sources I listen to what is going on
I'm pretty sure Rob from Sentinel Apologetics is running Dr Heiser's website and/ or this YT channel.
Super grateful for Rob! Rob has always been a rather significant portion of Heisers you tube presence. Particularly in the early years of Dr Mike's ministry. The Han Solo days
The fact that many cultures have similar creation/origin stories is strong evidence that the creation account in the Book of Genesis is true. After the Flood, Noah's sons and their offspring spread across the earth. Undoubtedly, they took the knowledge of the Flood with them. Over thousands of years, these stories orally and textually transmitted, eventually morphing into folklore and mythology. There remains a kernel of truth.
the flood myths were way before genesis or when the bible was written. not after. so if anything the bible writers took these ideas and made it their own
I don't think that the Old Testament was copied from ancient texts. It's entirely possible that the writers of the Old Testament were telling the same story from a different perspective. For example, a group of people can see the same thing occur. When asked individually what they saw, each person will tell a slightly different version of the same event. Each version will differ according to their own level of understanding.
The “story” from the Old Testament is 100% historical fact. It IS the “story” of humanity. It is not “copied” from anything. It’s SETTING THE RECORD STRAIGHT, a corrective response TO those exact texts certain fools purport it to be “copied” from.. It’s saying, “no, THIS is the way it actually happened, the so-called gods you’re worshipping are rebellious fallen angelic beings, not the true creator above all”.. That is largely the point of the Old Testament. And to tell us all of the coming of the messiah, everything Christ would come to do was prophesied all over the place centuries upon centuries before he ever walked the earth.
@@dazdavis7896yes, and as you can see with other religions like Hinduism, some of their “Gods” are a mix of different animals or canaanites and moloch he looks like a Goat of sorts , in the Bible some angels are described as having lion heads, bear heads…etc
Reversing Hermon next, but beyond that im mot sure it matters. Especially if you already knocked out U.R.
I know he released Angels right before Demons. May get his Book of Enoch companion book sooner than later. He has more gems than many people realize.
What if a lot of these old religions had pieces of the puzzle of who God was and the Old Testament writers along the way copied bits of those pieces to make the full story and Jesus came to set the record straight. A majority of religions all over the globe since the beginning of time have had Gods that tell the story of creation or are centered in the concept of good and evil. The word of the lord is written on all of our hearts and he has revealed himself to us through creation and to some people divine intervention. I think a lot of older religions were similar to biblical accounts because maybe God was making himself known and influencing all cultures in tiny bits. The Israelites just took all the right pieces of the puzzle and then Jesus came to validate that truth. Im just saying hypothetically…
@leahhathaway2796 My thoughts, too. It's great to know there are others out there who have the same assumptions about this topic, whether proven right or wrong . I used to wonder how the bible old testament's accounts of creation n the great flood might have similarities with ancient myths and texts? Did the OT authors plagiarise bits and pieces from various older sources n compile stories in the OT? But then I also realized that since God is the creator of the universe - what makes us think He wouldn't show Himself to different people in different situations in different cultures in different historical periods, BEFORE the OT was recorded much later? Zoroastrianism is another ancient religion that predates Judaism n Christianity that has biblical beliefs like heaven n hell, good verses evil, a messianic figure etc
It's not just "these two things are similar so one influenced the other".... It's that Abraham came from Ur, Sumeria.
We must look at the region in question indeed. The Ancient Civilizations and City-States if the region traded and shared many things. Among these were stories and tales of gods and legends. Each culture adding their own spin on these stories. Lots of ideas were shared.
Mankind created many gods.
HUMANS ARE DIVINE IMAGERS❤
I like to use the old "telephone" game analogy with this topic. Seeing that the events of the Old Testament happened in the Middle East that their myths and legends are going to have a garbled version of the truth to them while when you get further afield like in Ancient Greece or the opposite way say the Americas you're going to have very little left of the original stories save for huge events like the Flood.
I researched it and they say the same thing, the Pleiades did it, which happens to be the radiant of our most recent meteor stream. And it wasn't even "known" to science till 1950.
Billy Carson makes a great debate about parts of the Bible coming from the Emerald tablet and Samarian text.
Inb4 i finish the video: it's better described as a polemics, or better yet, a series of polemics and various works in a few genre- traditions.
Does anyone have a recommended reading order for Dr Heiser’s books? I have already read Unseen Realm.
Listening to his "Naked Bible Podcast", in order, is amazing.
I don't have advice for order of the books besides read the unseen realm 1st (which you did)
Demons was really really good…I read that first then went on to unseen Realm
He wrote a couple "Brief Insights" books-if you want some lighter reading, they are a great introduction to his mode of thinking. "Brief Insights on Mastering Bible Doctrine," and "Brief Insights on Mastering the Bible"
Facade , Demons , Angels but my fav is a little book “ What God Wants” which helped me as I lived under condemnation for years thinking I had to perform in order to b saved. It’s the gospel but explained to a simpleton like myself. Blessings to u . All his books r full of knowledge
Inspired Scripture!
I really like Dr. Heiser's work. It was a real loss when he passed away at such a young age from pancreatic cancer. However, I am struck by the disingenuineness with which he and the majority of Chrsitians approach such issues. In the case of the Epic of Gilgamesh and the Biblical flood narrative, Christians might not feel so attacked if they relaxed their need to lay an ownership claim for every figure and event found in the Old Testament. Perhaps we could simply say that the Utnapishtim and Noah figures have a shared origin that united ancient peoples more than it divided them. Dr. Heiser's statement that ancient Hebrews interpreted the imago of man differently and therefore the JUdeo-Christian tradition is different from other ancient religions is a red herring and does not speak to the similarities of the stories. Engaging Tablet XI from various scholars is striking in the similarities to the Noah narrative. These similarities are archetypal and challenge the reader to consider imagoes that may consciously inform one's life story. Finally, a tincture of syncretism as practiced by the Ancient Catholic Church would subsume the Gilgamesh narrative to make the Christian perspective bigger in the long run without diluting a Christian religious hegemony.
When I saw one of His videos, I could understand what I didn't get.
Awesome 😎
Short answer...no...
So good!!
Epic of gilgamesh is the source text for noah. The bible is a remix of the older more ancient sumerian, acadian and babylonian stories among others. The bible even admits that abram and sarai came from ur (a sumerian city). Also original torah stories are about the elohim (the powerful ones) and the name yahweh was inserted into earlier text. Text that were written before "God" revealed that name. That is a revision to create a seemingly contiguous story line from genesis forward. Enuma elish tablet 6 is the story of "edin" and enki and enlil and the "Adamu" . The bible is a collection of curated books , papyrus's, cylindar scrolls, texts some plagiarized (see isaiah and the 3 authors). It was never written. Also if jesus was alone away from the sleeping disciples when he prayed "not my will be done..." who was there to write that down?
God Bless!
There are many examples, some verbatim and others diametric in order. If you have a doctorate in the OT you should be well aware of it. I find it interesting how things are "borrowed' and then slandering against the other cultures were it was obtained. I just read a apologetic book and not the only one that implies that the Hebrews taught the Chaldeans and Egyptians everything. Where did the omnipotent get the idea of riding the cherub with the Thunderweapon or Isis and Nefertiti on the ark? Some of these ideals are thirteen millennia old, I think you are being bias.
You’re missing the point that the oldest version of something is not necessarily the most accurate account of or a true interpretation of the same events. The Bible’s version of events is secured by the resurrection of Christ. Because that actually happened, and is foreshadowed throughout all the old testament and completely coherent with it, that is the version of events that we should care to affirm and understand.
Nah never get any bad ideas in the old testament.. Fire and Brimstone oldmate .. Either worship me or eternal damnation .. bummer
I mean, you can stay ignorant in assumptions or you could actually try to read/study it.
🤷🏻♀️
I know learning is tough.
God incorporated similar stories to show he is a superior God to the other Gods with similar stories except God shows how He cares about His people and fixes their problems
Many people are familiar with the story of three little pigs and the wolf right? Now the YT channel "Firearms Unknown" twisted/altered the story.
It's similar with Jesus's parable about the lost son or prodigal son. It was the altered version of the ancient story to made a point across.
All scripture is inspired by God all means all that’s not hard to understand holy men of God were moved by the Holy Spirit to write His Word down so all of mankind can read His Word read and believe the Bible
Stop the denial - "Is the Old Testament Just a Copy of Other Ancient Texts".
Yes, but with the violence and damnation wound up.
No
It’s unlikely that any of the stories “copied” each other. All of the stories likely have their roots in the same verbal tradition of the ancient near east. The question is, what are they trying to communicate?
I think Mike got taken home because he became a apologist for natural mechanisms only, Since his influence was so great. I think I stumbled onto him in 2012 or 13
Can you clarify what you mean?
@@dondgc2298 you want me to elaborate on how Mike progressively resorted to explaining scriptural meanings and interpretation from a solely naturalistic mechanisms framework? Removing supernatural influence beyond circumstances. Which is essentially metaphysical only belief system?
Ask you asking for that to be elaborated?
@@estimatingonediscoveringthree well since the whole body of his work focused on the supernatural I would have to disagree with your thoughts on Dr. Heiser’s teachings. But what I’m curious about is your statement that he “got taken home because…”. So you’re claiming that God killed Dr. Heiser for apostasy?
@@dondgc2298 his whole work has become using natural means to explain supernatural. I think what I said went over your head maybe?
@@estimatingonediscoveringthree I think maybe my question to you went over your head. But I’m not here to trade insults. Have a good day.
The OT has yet to be translated. The little- but significant- parts Kamal has tells different stories. “The Bible Came from Arabia”, Kamal Salibi,1985, plus his 3 other bible study books and blog for facts not fantasies.
Bruh. Like seriously, bruuuuuuuh.
Get a clue and read a book.
There are millions to enlighten you of the modern world.
@@ladyphoenixgrey3923 Sis, read first then ‘comment ‘ seriously siiiiista! His blog is a few pages: can you manage that; probably not. Grow up, lil’ sis. Laugh!
I've read a book that says, "The Bible Came From India" as well.
@@FromValkyrie And where is the Garden of Eden in said book? Junaynah at Dn- garden of Eden- located at 20/20 by 42/55 in Asir region western Arabia. Keep worshipping Odin. Or as suggested above break down and read the short blog- fat chance, hypocrite!
@@davidrandell2224 Have you had your meds today? 😂 😂 😂
I hear this constantly and think it's hilarious. But that proves the Bible is right! All these cultures around the world with the same basic belief, all these peoples who started out as monotheistic. Anthropologists today say cavemen began with one God, and added more as time went on. But, Bible is likely the correct one because Abraham's people were literate for over 300 years before he came along.
Vedic text in India ( sanskrit) were used as source.
The same could be said for other religions, since they all will claim they were the right ones all along, while the rest are distorted versions or an inaccurate recounting of events. For all we know, Mesopotamians were right, since they were the first to spread their stories.
@@milanradulovic9784yes