Much respect to Jamil Jivani. I really appreciated his intelligent, well articulated, coolheaded perspective to an issue that brings out the worst in so many people. The world needs more of this man.
The almost buying the gun part was anxiety inducing to listen to and yet it so often goes the other way and we're completely desensitized to it. The world is so much more full of consequence than we seem willing to readily face and accept.
@@CheekClappersPodcast - Sorry all lives matter to ✝️God ✝️even black lives Jamil Jivani, you liberal democrat hypocrite. BLM CO-FOUNDER Patrisse Khan-Cullors, a co-founder of Black Lives Matter, raised some eyebrows when she purchased a $1.4 million home in a virtually all-white neighborhood in Los Angeles. Jamil Jivani, the founder of the Policing Literacy Initiative, replied: “I can’t believe how badly some people got played by BLM. Wow.”
I can't believe such a deep and interesting conversation only has 6k views. Coleman, keep up what you're doing with this podcast. The level of discourse is great and you're talking about solutions to really deep problems in our society.
Man, when Coleman says "my girlfriend" my heart cries just a little lol. I'm too old for him by at least a decade, but his intellect and charm don't go unnoticed lol.
@Valkes The important part is not that women get to say these things, the important part is that men don't. There are normal boundaries of social acceptability and I do not think OP's comment goes against this in any way shape or form. It's completely harmless, it's not sexually aggressive or invasive. Just humourously expressing a childlike crush on someone. Men and women should both be able to do this without it being perceived as a threat.
I was lucky enough to hang out with Jamil when he visited Australia a few months ago for a writer's festival - in fact I took him to see the excellent Lionel Shriver at an event! Absolutely lovely bloke and incredible story. What an iconic duo Coleman and Jamil make!
"No one reacts well to getting stereotyped" This is the most obviously true thing I've heard in recent memory, and yet I've never heard it phrased clearly like that, great stuff.
The first 5 minutes of this about masculine role models is so heavy and important for men. I can't even imagine or recognize who I would be without my father and martial arts teacher.
Great conversation! The importance of fathers cannot be overstated. The question is: "How do we bring them back?" I don't know the whole solution, but I know how to start. Give fathers equal rights and responsibilities concerning their children. They should have equal custody rights and equal help in supporting their children from the time they are born. Why would they invest themselves in their children if they can be taken away at any moment?
When we're talking about fatherless and impoverished families, it's not about fathers leaving or not investing -- they are killed or in prison or don't have money to support their kids or were never married to the kid's mother. Education and economic empowerment keeps families together.
Daniel - why do you believe that fathers don't have equal custody rights and equal responsibility for supporting their children. They have both those rights and obligations. The difficulty comes from the cultural shift which makes it normative for women to have children without being married. There is no phrase which speaks more powerfully to cultural decline and bad choices than "baby daddy."
Uhmmm. Your wording implies that conceiving children is some kind of accidental, unavoidable event which men have no control over. (??) Men have a great deal of options when it comes to fatherhood, regardless of society or expectations, etc. They also have agency and rights and plenty of options for finding a suitable partnership and life circumstance before deciding to have children. Anyone who shows any interest/ effort in parenting is given equal status in our courts, to a large degree. Unfortunately, your comment is a great example of the "bigotry of low expectations" that Coleman talks about often
@@Richusbabe Men definitely have a degree of control over conceiving children but overall they have a lot less. A woman can very easily trick a man into having a child, a man cannot trick a woman into having a child. She will always have more options. That is the way it should be for now and we cannot really change it (until more viable, realistic forms of male birth control are made available - RISUG looks good) but we should at least be fair in acknowledging it. Men very often have children that they do not want to have. Seldom the case for women unless they are growing up in a very religious or conservative environment.
If a woman gets more money (from the government) by not having a man in the house then all these other proposed solutions are moot. People pursue economic incentives.
I've said for years, rap music is the "father" to a lot of young men. I'm a white guy, and when my parents got divorced, looking back, rap music (e.g. Mobb Deep was my group) influenced me tremendously - not for the best.
Zuby (from the UK) is another great, reflective personality doing podcasts right now. The most recent I saw was with Brett Weinstein on Dark Horse podcast here on TH-cam
Jivani is full of great points, and has actually done some of the work, out there in the real world. Hats off to you, sir, and thank you both for the great conversation.
Nice to see a little northern representation! Big fans of both of your work! I feel like Jamil’s book “Why Young Men” was overshadowed because of the whole Peterson phenomenon but It shouldn’t have been, it is an extremely good book.
Great and honest discussion about the importance of having good role models when growing up to set good examples - I really enjoyed every minute of it.
One problem I didn't hear discussed. When you are hurt a lot as a child, you don't develop a sense of who you are and you shut down to keep from getting hurt. It's impossible to care about yourself or anyone else. I don't know what you do about this especially in a family where everyone will not acknowledge that they are trying to hurt me when they are trying to hurt me.
Jamil’s story about not buying a gun is a beautiful example of love conquering hate. The love for and from his mother stopped his decision to go down a destructive path, leading to the great man we’re listening to today.
My parents both had very little formal education in Poland and never really learned English after coming to Canada. We lived in a relatively rough neighbourhood; my brother and I had to deal with those who hated us and tried to beat us, while my parents earned a bare minimum for their first 20 years in Canada. They constantly emphasized the importance of education. Because they did so, going to university became a goal for both my brother and me and we both got part time jobs at an early age (11-12) to save. Eventually we both made it to University and obtained various degrees. Without the feeling of guilt and shame if we did not succeed, I don't know if we would given so much priority to getting that education. No matter how depressed we got, our mother repeated her mantra; "You can't give up. You have to keep going on, no matter what." I would have felt terribly guilty if I did not do that.
Kids no matter their race just need to learn that their choices are impactful period. We cannot find a role model for every area of our lives; sometimes we need to become that role model for others without any experience. We need to stay sober and teach them that everything has consequences good and bad. What a black kid will encounter on his path will be the same that a white kid with the same “life starter pack” will be facing but it will come down to the choices that they’ll make that will bring them to a certain finish line. Ps: the book of Proverbs in the Bible is filled with wisdom for anyone who doesn’t have anyone to look up to. Peace!! And thank you for this podcast that gives hope...
So much interesting content. Agrees with a lot of what I already believe regarding expanding one's social sphere to understand the realms of possibilities that one could possibly achieve. I didn't notice this until I (kinda luckily) got thrust into a vastly different life with better opportunities. You begin to notice that being smart or dumb (or rich or poor) is partly a derivative of the environment around you and how you perceive and interact with it. Just brilliant!
Great conversation. I'm glad to know there are some activists who have a more nuanced view of this extremely complicated world. Too bad the ones with the most power are the most ignorant.
The first point Jamil points out is something I relate to very strongly. As a white male I think this is a great point to make & show that growing up in a fatherless home goes beyond race. This is a human issue, a species issue. When we address this issue, all ships will rise with the tide.
Very powerful to hear Jamil's experience of deciding NOT to acquire a firearm and loosing friends to that decision, in what are already very difficult teenage years.
I agree with much of what you both say. You are both far more educated then me. People don’t like when I argue points like these because of my skin color and education level.
1:13:30. I've thought about the opioid addictions being healed many times since I read the autobiography of Malcolm X. I recently lost my younger brother to complications from opioid addiction. I can't help but wonder if more spiritual influences and/or stronger male role models would've saved his life. If he'd had something/someone strong enough to help liberate him from drugs and opioids... I would be talking to him now instead of listening to these beautiful strangers talking about healing young men from what ails them 💔🖤 Edit: i originally meant to add a thank you to you both. Thank you for being willing to judge people by the content of their character, versus their skin tone. May your paths towards truth and humanity be ever blessed and unencumbered 💚
that was incredible. Jamil's backstory is really inspiring. fascinating and invigorating talk, made me question (in a good way) the realm of human possibility
Amazing interview. Wish there was talk about the role of business in: on the one hand, reinforcing feelings of inadequacy and racial conflict (e.g how Elliot Aronson Puzzle Classroom studies showed the role of the structure of the classroom effecting these same issues); and on the other, how a holistic common-unity controlled economic vision could anchor a meta-narrative around belonging and pride rooted in offering young men the noble role of being a provider and protector for an entire group of people (who incidentally are also vested in your individual advancement and success). Can we imagine the best of tribal social engineering being fused with modern business structural design where each child knows from birth the role which is available for them to play in service of a greater whole of which they are a part, and where the entire community aligns around them achieving what is know to be within their capacity?
That was a great conversation. I can understand the utility of the religious metenarrative being useful as described. As James Lindsay says, there are religious ideas that look up, that encourage their adherents to aspire to loftier goals as a way to express their love of god, and there are religious ideas that look down, that encourage their adherents to police each other’s sins and the sins of others. Now, with the internet, like the printing press before it, more people are abandoning organised religion. Of the look up and look down varieties, and the whole belief a god exists idea altogether. How do we construct a secular alternative that provides the same functional utility that Jamil says religious metanarratives do for young men who are suffering that will show them they can live a life that is meaningful with purpose.
I am an old white guy , I had many black sports people and musicians as heroes or role models. Muhammad Ali, Willy Mays, Bill Russel, Dr J., Miles Davis , John Coltrane, Charles Mingus. I also have a black mentor as a classical conductor.
I had that gun moment! Used to run around doing bad stuff, not REALLY bad, but petty theft, stealing bikes, etc. And for some reason, lots of vandalism. Anyway, that was all through middle and high-school. I got arrested a few times, never for anything serious, always got mostly out of it, till I was 18. Got arrested at 18, and this one cop was like, damn son, you're 18, no more kid's stuff for you, etc. But it sounded like he meant it, like if he could, he would've let me go. Anyway, after community service, I got a job and stopped hanging out with those guys. Not long after, one of them called me up, Hey dude, need a guy to help us jack some wheels, got a buyer, 100 bucks, blah blah. And I was tempted, but I made up an excuse and bailed, and that was it.
many valid points, agency does belong to the individual, that does not mean the state does not connive. your analytical wherewithal and the evidence provided are the quality control!
I think a start is to not emphasize race every step of the way. Or at all. I am not black, but I looked up to black people growing up. As well as white people, Asian people, native American whatever - I don't remember any of my influences by ethnicity, I really have to force myself think about that. I think it is not true that you have to identify with skin color at all. I think that is a part of "black" culture. Even BET. There should not be institutions that call themselves a skin color in the first place and second it should be absolutely clear that they are not about a skin color, they are about a culture. You are not defined by skin color and skin color does not define what a person has to be. I would say, read great book. Ones that are not about differences of skin color in some era when we were focused on that. Why can't you aspire to be like Ghandi, Einstein or Iverson just because you are not Indian or Jewish (I don't even know if he is Jewish, his name sounds like that to me) or black? Same for goes for sex or any other characteristic.
WTH? I've listened to a couple of this guy's video and people actually think what he is saying is fresh, smart or new? I'm 46, and folks have been talking about this shit in the 80's and 90's on daytime talk shows when I was in high school (I graduated in '92). During the height of the crack epidemic of the 80s, in the housing projects where single mothers raised boys since the 70's, people knew the harmful effects of rap music on the youth. Especially those of my parent's generation who were actual protesters in the Civil Rights Movement. Black people didn't listen then, and black people aren't going to listen now. I still remember rappers' responses and those who defended them on Oprah and Donahue trying to justify the crap in rap. I remember seeing some (I say some because MANY were against it, but you know, media at that time, always put on black folks who advocating things that destroyed our communities rather than lift them up, or scrupulous black folks who were trying to make a name for themselves) so-called black intellectuals say something like "the rap industry provides a lot of jobs to a lot of inner-city youths who wouldn't have had those same opportunities otherwise." And because that sambo or mammy had written some books or had a degree from Harvard or Yale, the underclass ate that shit up. Just go on youtube and search for those old talk show clips from the '80s and 90's from Oprah, Geraldo (especially Geraldo), Donahue and Sally Jessy when the topic was "gangsta rap". Listen to how people defended it, how rappers like Snoop, NWA, Ice-T, Jay-Z, Luke, Method Man, etc (all those rappers who people think are "heroes and leaders" today) went on late-night and day-time and trashed and outright disrespected those older Civil Rights black folks who fought for years to keep negative images of black folks out of the American media. When I saw it, in my younger years, I was seeing America for what it really was. No matter how abhorrent something is, no matter how much negative impact something has, as long as it is making somebody a lot of money, it was considered okay. Capitalism can be a bitch sometimes.
I recently came across some PEW polls from the 90's (I think) that showed that MOST black Americans thought (knew) that gangsta rap was bad, or they didn't like it. It made me realize I had to be intentional in playing music from the 80s and before to let my early teens know that there was amazing music produced-some of the most amazing-before gangsta rap. (and that songs about loving a person without denigrating them was not exclusive to country music-because let's face it, no other genre these days doesn't denigrate relationships or family.) And before mumble rap. I also realized that finding old episodes of the Cosby Show and A Different World could show them that there was a huge cultural shift as a result of gangsta rap and the political rise of the soft bigotry of low expectations. I keep trying to impart on them that growing up in the 80s was the closest we've come to living out MLK'S dream. (not that there weren't horrible things going on in inner cities that needed to be dealt with. But that there wasn't this idea that "the black community" was equated to inner city, dysfunctional communities.)
Such a good show. AGAIN. Edit: Oh and I dont mean this to sound negative at all, purely a note. Isnt it interesting that the fairest, brightest most unifying black social leaders are saying something VERY close to what 'old white men' have been saying for decades. If your most common male figures are Lambo driving, some times aggressive, not particularly deep (to the child anyway) , 'ho bangin' young men, how nutritious is that for the soul? How good a fertiliser is that for the growing child? Very poor I would say. Its very similar through every race. Those who are poor and have either no or very erratic, transient 'father' figures will struggle ALOT more than those with healthy loving fathers.
I'm a white man married to a black woman for almost 20 years now, she currently wants to divorce me because I don't support the group, Black Lives Matter for the reasons Coleman points out, they seems to be doing to much harm with the good. I support equality, I support the outcry for police reform, all lives matter, but I also know all policemen aren't racist. She won't listen to things Coleman has to say, she want's to believe the left wing echo chamber. I don't know what ideals she's holding onto, she won't talk about it. I guess she doesn't trust me. I'm really sad, sad being and understatement, but I'm also frustrated with almost life long pressure to repent for being a white male, for things that have nothing to do with my actions and beliefs.
That is so frustrating for you . At the end of the day I have noticed human tribalism seems to come out . Humans are complicated. People relate to who look like them sometimes and they have a hard time admitting it.
@@mkm1206 Yeah seems the tribal buttons are being pressed by the media, and social justice activists. Btw my wife is no longer wanting a divorce, we are talking more about this.
I would say this guy is articulate, but then I'd be racist. But in all seriousness, Jivani very effectively articulates the really messy motivations of why people get sucked into certain lifestyles. Speaks to me because when I was a teenager, I was on the verge of joining Atomwaffen. It was a huge struggle to get away from that shit.
We are missing a prefrontal cortex until 25-30ish, lack of executive function. Fatherlessness accelerates physical and sexual development, end result reckless behavior to achieve status.
@18:00 hit me hard. Been trying to articulate this as cooperative vs adversarial interaction. I think it gets to the deeper intentions of 'participation trophy' culture where the trophy misses the moral compass of the intent. So many of these SJW outrages (to my perspective) are really valid instincts that get twisted into simplistic _us vs them_ narratives that miss proposing solutions, or worse, creating deeper divides away from progress.
Suspect use of force is the major factor in determining officer use of force. Want to save black lives from the police. Tell them to comply. Change the mentality from resisting the police when wrongfully arrested to "if I cooperate I can probably get a nice financial settlement for being harassed."
Cus they dont have anything better to do. The innate urge to act will grip young men no matter what. The only thing you can do is direct that energy towards something productive.
32:25 On that topic, might not be that relevant to the American context. I've seen plenty of left wing media here in Sweden actually discuss why swedes would be neonazis. I won't be able to give the full picture but lots of the factors that are broadly recognized are much smaller than you'd expect for the turnout. And immigration is not that big a problem. Statistically and in the day to day. It's hard to notice the small minority of recent immigrants. And now they have an anti-immigration party to vote for. In 2012 that was not the case. No political party criticised that idea which is not a good representative situation. Something that does come up a lot is that broad secularism and a weaker Christian ideology (we're protestant) has brought about a lack of community that some fill through joining extremist groups. These newspapers have interviews with neo-nazis and ex-neonazis. Group belonging seems extremely important. Maybe it's too extreme to attribute problems to that as much as I do but I genuinely do believe that a lot of groups that are empowered now is because people need a tribe. What tribe they choose can be explained by their early impressions, like seeking father figures.
I’m a fan of Hughes but Jivani seems to have a blind spot about Islam (45m to 55m). He neglects how thoughts and actions of violent extremists can be inspired by *literal* interpretations of religious texts. The unfolding facts of the Paris teacher murder and countless other Islamist attacks attest to that. As well as socio-politico-economic factors underlying jihadism, what the religious texts *actually say* should be taken into account, especially when jihadists themselves tell us unequivocally about their religious motivations. The Quran has many verses demonising the outgroup, in other words, infidels. Some other religions do this, but Islam is unique because crucially, its orthodoxy holds the Quran to be the inerrant word of God and beyond criticism. Such a level of literality and supremacy is not shared by any other world religion as far as I know. In terms of its *potential* for violence, Islam seems to be the most flammable of world religions because of its scriptural content and the status of its texts -- contrast with pacifist Jainism and Quakerism, among the least flammable. As a thought system, Islam as conveyed through its texts is the polar opposite of the Enlightenment, the latter having reason, individual freedom and freedom of expression as core tenets. Neither Jivani nor Hughes, whose thinking bears the hallmark of that Enlightenment, seem to register just how influential Islamic texts are (Quran and Hadiths) in inspiring people to act in certain ways. To be fair to Hughes, he hinted at an awareness but didn’t elaborate. Based on this video, they seem to think that violent religious extremists are motivated by anything other than what their religion actually says. Disappointing given their reasoned insights overall. See: Daily Mirror item ‘Why We Hate You’ from a 2016 issue of ‘Dabiq’, the recruiting magazine of ISIS, which clearly shows their motivations. For access to source document subscribe to MEMRI at tinyurl.com/y4qjczpx Peter Townsend ‘Nothing to do with Islam?’ 2016 . Graeme Wood ‘The Way of the Strangers’ 2017
As far as a I know, there have been and are many flavors of Islam. In Christianity, there are those churches that interpret scripture literally, but are also those that insist on interpreting many passages metaphorically.
![My Open Letter to Ibram X. Kendi - [Bonus Episode]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/kMAYJUMpStY/mqdefault.jpg)
Much respect to Jamil Jivani. I really appreciated his intelligent, well articulated, coolheaded perspective to an issue that brings out the worst in so many people. The world needs more of this man.
Jamil is brilliant.
The almost buying the gun part was anxiety inducing to listen to and yet it so often goes the other way and we're completely desensitized to it. The world is so much more full of consequence than we seem willing to readily face and accept.
@@CheekClappersPodcast - Sorry all lives matter to ✝️God ✝️even black lives Jamil Jivani, you liberal democrat hypocrite.
BLM CO-FOUNDER Patrisse Khan-Cullors, a co-founder of Black Lives Matter, raised some eyebrows when she purchased a $1.4 million home in a virtually all-white neighborhood in Los Angeles. Jamil Jivani, the founder of the Policing Literacy Initiative, replied: “I can’t believe how badly some people got played by BLM. Wow.”
More people need to listen to the conversation. I wish my friends would understand bigotry of low expectations.
Thanks for the amazing interviews!
And the bigotry of assuming black people don't want safe communities and protection of their private property.
I can't believe such a deep and interesting conversation only has 6k views. Coleman, keep up what you're doing with this podcast. The level of discourse is great and you're talking about solutions to really deep problems in our society.
Man, when Coleman says "my girlfriend" my heart cries just a little lol. I'm too old for him by at least a decade, but his intellect and charm don't go unnoticed lol.
hahaha
@Valkes I can imagine that, I would assume that happens quite often.
@@de4nn1e Haha BOOM
@Valkes The important part is not that women get to say these things, the important part is that men don't. There are normal boundaries of social acceptability and I do not think OP's comment goes against this in any way shape or form. It's completely harmless, it's not sexually aggressive or invasive. Just humourously expressing a childlike crush on someone. Men and women should both be able to do this without it being perceived as a threat.
I was lucky enough to hang out with Jamil when he visited Australia a few months ago for a writer's festival - in fact I took him to see the excellent Lionel Shriver at an event! Absolutely lovely bloke and incredible story. What an iconic duo Coleman and Jamil make!
Wow
"No one reacts well to getting stereotyped"
This is the most obviously true thing I've heard in recent memory, and yet I've never heard it phrased clearly like that, great stuff.
The first 5 minutes of this about masculine role models is so heavy and important for men. I can't even imagine or recognize who I would be without my father and martial arts teacher.
Great conversation! The importance of fathers cannot be overstated. The question is: "How do we bring them back?" I don't know the whole solution, but I know how to start. Give fathers equal rights and responsibilities concerning their children. They should have equal custody rights and equal help in supporting their children from the time they are born. Why would they invest themselves in their children if they can be taken away at any moment?
When we're talking about fatherless and impoverished families, it's not about fathers leaving or not investing -- they are killed or in prison or don't have money to support their kids or were never married to the kid's mother. Education and economic empowerment keeps families together.
Daniel - why do you believe that fathers don't have equal custody rights and equal responsibility for supporting their children. They have both those rights and obligations. The difficulty comes from the cultural shift which makes it normative for women to have children without being married. There is no phrase which speaks more powerfully to cultural decline and bad choices than "baby daddy."
Uhmmm. Your wording implies that conceiving children is some kind of accidental, unavoidable event which men have no control over. (??)
Men have a great deal of options when it comes to fatherhood, regardless of society or expectations, etc.
They also have agency and rights and plenty of options for finding a suitable partnership and life circumstance before deciding to have children.
Anyone who shows any interest/ effort in parenting is given equal status in our courts, to a large degree.
Unfortunately, your comment is a great example of the "bigotry of low expectations" that Coleman talks about often
@@Richusbabe Men definitely have a degree of control over conceiving children but overall they have a lot less. A woman can very easily trick a man into having a child, a man cannot trick a woman into having a child. She will always have more options. That is the way it should be for now and we cannot really change it (until more viable, realistic forms of male birth control are made available - RISUG looks good) but we should at least be fair in acknowledging it. Men very often have children that they do not want to have. Seldom the case for women unless they are growing up in a very religious or conservative environment.
If a woman gets more money (from the government) by not having a man in the house then all these other proposed solutions are moot. People pursue economic incentives.
What a wonderful thing listening to these young gentlemen . This gives me hope in our crazy planet .Coleman , Jamil , god bless you both .
I would love to see these young men get on a platform like JRE to voice these ideas. So wonderful!
JRE has had almost a decade to bring some of these voices on... I'd rather watch them speak here.
@@jaydoe5654 Don't discredit what Joe has done over the years.
I've said for years, rap music is the "father" to a lot of young men. I'm a white guy, and when my parents got divorced, looking back, rap music (e.g. Mobb Deep was my group) influenced me tremendously - not for the best.
Finally someone with sense. And it's so basic and obvious, so thank you Coleman for calling it out
Wow. This is the first I have seen of Jamal Jivani, and am I impressed!
And I just "met" Coleman Hughes a few days before this. Double wow!!
These guys are so cool headed and life-affirming... they and their peers are the literal antidote to many of our problems
Zuby (from the UK) is another great, reflective personality doing podcasts right now. The most recent I saw was with Brett Weinstein on Dark Horse podcast here on TH-cam
Jivani is full of great points, and has actually done some of the work, out there in the real world. Hats off to you, sir, and thank you both for the great conversation.
What a powerful story Jamil's life is. Loving the podcasts Coleman :)
Nice to see a little northern representation! Big fans of both of your work! I feel like Jamil’s book “Why Young Men” was overshadowed because of the whole Peterson phenomenon but It shouldn’t have been, it is an extremely good book.
I'll check it out. Thanks.
Wow! Finally a substantive video that seems helpful to the young masses. Every BLM member should watch
Great and honest discussion about the importance of having good role models when growing up to set good examples - I really enjoyed every minute of it.
I admire these two so much and it is quite a relief to listen to such a good discussion in an era when the public square has gotten so shouty.
One problem I didn't hear discussed. When you are hurt a lot as a child, you don't develop a sense of who you are and you shut down to keep from getting hurt. It's impossible to care about yourself or anyone else.
I don't know what you do about this especially in a family where everyone will not acknowledge that they are trying to hurt me when they are trying to hurt me.
This topic was long awaited.
Thanks, Coleman and Jivani.
Another winning conversation from Señor Hughes. Keep'em coming.
Jamil’s story about not buying a gun is a beautiful example of love conquering hate. The love for and from his mother stopped his decision to go down a destructive path, leading to the great man we’re listening to today.
thank you for existing Coleman. Glad I discovered you.
This might be the most relevant conversation I’ve ever heard
My parents both had very little formal education in Poland and never really learned English after coming to Canada. We lived in a relatively rough neighbourhood; my brother and I had to deal with those who hated us and tried to beat us, while my parents earned a bare minimum for their first 20 years in Canada. They constantly emphasized the importance of education. Because they did so, going to university became a goal for both my brother and me and we both got part time jobs at an early age (11-12) to save. Eventually we both made it to University and obtained various degrees. Without the feeling of guilt and shame if we did not succeed, I don't know if we would given so much priority to getting that education. No matter how depressed we got, our mother repeated her mantra; "You can't give up. You have to keep going on, no matter what." I would have felt terribly guilty if I did not do that.
Kids no matter their race just need to learn that their choices are impactful period. We cannot find a role model for every area of our lives; sometimes we need to become that role model for others without any experience. We need to stay sober and teach them that everything has consequences good and bad. What a black kid will encounter on his path will be the same that a white kid with the same “life starter pack” will be facing but it will come down to the choices that they’ll make that will bring them to a certain finish line.
Ps: the book of Proverbs in the Bible is filled with wisdom for anyone who doesn’t have anyone to look up to.
Peace!! And thank you for this podcast that gives hope...
Coleman Hughes is so handsome and intelligent. I can listen to him speaking all day. ;)
So much interesting content. Agrees with a lot of what I already believe regarding expanding one's social sphere to understand the realms of possibilities that one could possibly achieve. I didn't notice this until I (kinda luckily) got thrust into a vastly different life with better opportunities. You begin to notice that being smart or dumb (or rich or poor) is partly a derivative of the environment around you and how you perceive and interact with it. Just brilliant!
This should be a 10 part series on audio podcast. I loved listening to every bit of this episode
Great conversation. I'm glad to know there are some activists who have a more nuanced view of this extremely complicated world. Too bad the ones with the most power are the most ignorant.
The first point Jamil points out is something I relate to very strongly. As a white male I think this is a great point to make & show that growing up in a fatherless home goes beyond race. This is a human issue, a species issue. When we address this issue, all ships will rise with the tide.
Very powerful to hear Jamil's experience of deciding NOT to acquire a firearm and loosing friends to that decision, in what are already very difficult teenage years.
I agree with much of what you both say. You are both far more educated then me. People don’t like when I argue points like these because of my skin color and education level.
1:13:30. I've thought about the opioid addictions being healed many times since I read the autobiography of Malcolm X.
I recently lost my younger brother to complications from opioid addiction. I can't help but wonder if more spiritual influences and/or stronger male role models would've saved his life.
If he'd had something/someone strong enough to help liberate him from drugs and opioids... I would be talking to him now instead of listening to these beautiful strangers talking about healing young men from what ails them 💔🖤
Edit: i originally meant to add a thank you to you both. Thank you for being willing to judge people by the content of their character, versus their skin tone. May your paths towards truth and humanity be ever blessed and unencumbered 💚
So many insightful and fascinating points made. Thank you both. I'd love to see Jamil on The Glenn Show.
that was incredible. Jamil's backstory is really inspiring. fascinating and invigorating talk, made me question (in a good way) the realm of human possibility
Please keep doing what you're doing Coleman
As a Pakistani American I'm upset that you experienced that incident Coleman! More power to you. Keep up the great work
I've never heard of Jamil Javani and am so glad I heard this interview! Thank you so much!
Amazing interview. Wish there was talk about the role of business in: on the one hand, reinforcing feelings of inadequacy and racial conflict (e.g how Elliot Aronson Puzzle Classroom studies showed the role of the structure of the classroom effecting these same issues); and on the other, how a holistic common-unity controlled economic vision could anchor a meta-narrative around belonging and pride rooted in offering young men the noble role of being a provider and protector for an entire group of people (who incidentally are also vested in your individual advancement and success).
Can we imagine the best of tribal social engineering being fused with modern business structural design where each child knows from birth the role which is available for them to play in service of a greater whole of which they are a part, and where the entire community aligns around them achieving what is know to be within their capacity?
You two make a lot of sense. Great video!
One of the best discussions i've heard in a while. You guys are two millenial voices I can actually agree with. And I am a cusp millenial!
Great conversation
Love you both - thank you.
Fantastic discussion. Thank you
Jamil is hosting a segment on newstalk 1010 in the afternoons right now. I hope he gets a permanent spot.
Please please let your guest SPEAK!! Good show that would be great with more succinct questions and less lengthy preamble in each one.
It's called a conversation with Coleman, it's not an interview.
This was an absolutely outstanding discussion.
Well conceived book, the nuts and bolts of the problems exposed/discussed by these men are necessary.
This channel needs way more attention
That was a great conversation. I can understand the utility of the religious metenarrative being useful as described. As James Lindsay says, there are religious ideas that look up, that encourage their adherents to aspire to loftier goals as a way to express their love of god, and there are religious ideas that look down, that encourage their adherents to police each other’s sins and the sins of others. Now, with the internet, like the printing press before it, more people are abandoning organised religion. Of the look up and look down varieties, and the whole belief a god exists idea altogether. How do we construct a secular alternative that provides the same functional utility that Jamil says religious metanarratives do for young men who are suffering that will show them they can live a life that is meaningful with purpose.
Such a fantastic conversation!
I am an old white guy , I had many black sports people and musicians as heroes or role models. Muhammad Ali, Willy Mays, Bill Russel, Dr J., Miles Davis , John Coltrane, Charles Mingus. I also have a black mentor as a classical conductor.
I had that gun moment!
Used to run around doing bad stuff, not REALLY bad, but petty theft, stealing bikes, etc. And for some reason, lots of vandalism. Anyway, that was all through middle and high-school. I got arrested a few times, never for anything serious, always got mostly out of it, till I was 18. Got arrested at 18, and this one cop was like, damn son, you're 18, no more kid's stuff for you, etc. But it sounded like he meant it, like if he could, he would've let me go. Anyway, after community service, I got a job and stopped hanging out with those guys. Not long after, one of them called me up, Hey dude, need a guy to help us jack some wheels, got a buyer, 100 bucks, blah blah. And I was tempted, but I made up an excuse and bailed, and that was it.
Excellent conversation
Keep up the good work Coleman! Loving these talks
Loved it. I hope he is a repeat guest. What was the title of "the book"? I would buy it if I knew the title.
"Why Young Men?"
Incredible interview.
many valid points, agency does belong to the individual, that does not mean the state does not connive. your analytical wherewithal and the evidence provided are the quality control!
Jamil is a quality person !
I think a start is to not emphasize race every step of the way. Or at all. I am not black, but I looked up to black people growing up. As well as white people, Asian people, native American whatever - I don't remember any of my influences by ethnicity, I really have to force myself think about that. I think it is not true that you have to identify with skin color at all. I think that is a part of "black" culture. Even BET. There should not be institutions that call themselves a skin color in the first place and second it should be absolutely clear that they are not about a skin color, they are about a culture. You are not defined by skin color and skin color does not define what a person has to be.
I would say, read great book. Ones that are not about differences of skin color in some era when we were focused on that. Why can't you aspire to be like Ghandi, Einstein or Iverson just because you are not Indian or Jewish (I don't even know if he is Jewish, his name sounds like that to me) or black? Same for goes for sex or any other characteristic.
This deserves way more views
7.8 Billion. We are getting close to 8
Shout out to Jamil Jivani! I saw you briefly last year at Springbank Calgary. I wanted to chat but panzied out.
Yes! Needed more Coleman content. 🙌
WTH? I've listened to a couple of this guy's video and people actually think what he is saying is fresh, smart or new? I'm 46, and folks have been talking about this shit in the 80's and 90's on daytime talk shows when I was in high school (I graduated in '92). During the height of the crack epidemic of the 80s, in the housing projects where single mothers raised boys since the 70's, people knew the harmful effects of rap music on the youth. Especially those of my parent's generation who were actual protesters in the Civil Rights Movement. Black people didn't listen then, and black people aren't going to listen now. I still remember rappers' responses and those who defended them on Oprah and Donahue trying to justify the crap in rap. I remember seeing some (I say some because MANY were against it, but you know, media at that time, always put on black folks who advocating things that destroyed our communities rather than lift them up, or scrupulous black folks who were trying to make a name for themselves) so-called black intellectuals say something like "the rap industry provides a lot of jobs to a lot of inner-city youths who wouldn't have had those same opportunities otherwise." And because that sambo or mammy had written some books or had a degree from Harvard or Yale, the underclass ate that shit up. Just go on youtube and search for those old talk show clips from the '80s and 90's from Oprah, Geraldo (especially Geraldo), Donahue and Sally Jessy when the topic was "gangsta rap". Listen to how people defended it, how rappers like Snoop, NWA, Ice-T, Jay-Z, Luke, Method Man, etc (all those rappers who people think are "heroes and leaders" today) went on late-night and day-time and trashed and outright disrespected those older Civil Rights black folks who fought for years to keep negative images of black folks out of the American media. When I saw it, in my younger years, I was seeing America for what it really was. No matter how abhorrent something is, no matter how much negative impact something has, as long as it is making somebody a lot of money, it was considered okay. Capitalism can be a bitch sometimes.
I recently came across some PEW polls from the 90's (I think) that showed that MOST black Americans thought (knew) that gangsta rap was bad, or they didn't like it. It made me realize I had to be intentional in playing music from the 80s and before to let my early teens know that there was amazing music produced-some of the most amazing-before gangsta rap. (and that songs about loving a person without denigrating them was not exclusive to country music-because let's face it, no other genre these days doesn't denigrate relationships or family.) And before mumble rap. I also realized that finding old episodes of the Cosby Show and A Different World could show them that there was a huge cultural shift as a result of gangsta rap and the political rise of the soft bigotry of low expectations. I keep trying to impart on them that growing up in the 80s was the closest we've come to living out MLK'S dream. (not that there weren't horrible things going on in inner cities that needed to be dealt with. But that there wasn't this idea that "the black community" was equated to inner city, dysfunctional communities.)
Amazing!!!
Such a good show. AGAIN.
Edit: Oh and I dont mean this to sound negative at all, purely a note. Isnt it interesting that the fairest, brightest most unifying black social leaders are saying something VERY close to what 'old white men' have been saying for decades.
If your most common male figures are Lambo driving, some times aggressive, not particularly deep (to the child anyway) , 'ho bangin' young men, how nutritious is that for the soul? How good a fertiliser is that for the growing child?
Very poor I would say. Its very similar through every race. Those who are poor and have either no or very erratic, transient 'father' figures will struggle ALOT more than those with healthy loving fathers.
Jamil, come back to Toronto :-)
I'm a white man married to a black woman for almost 20 years now, she currently wants to divorce me because I don't support the group, Black Lives Matter for the reasons Coleman points out, they seems to be doing to much harm with the good. I support equality, I support the outcry for police reform, all lives matter, but I also know all policemen aren't racist. She won't listen to things Coleman has to say, she want's to believe the left wing echo chamber. I don't know what ideals she's holding onto, she won't talk about it. I guess she doesn't trust me. I'm really sad, sad being and understatement, but I'm also frustrated with almost life long pressure to repent for being a white male, for things that have nothing to do with my actions and beliefs.
That is so frustrating for you . At the end of the day I have noticed human tribalism seems to come out . Humans are complicated. People relate to who look like them sometimes and they have a hard time admitting it.
@@mkm1206 Yeah seems the tribal buttons are being pressed by the media, and social justice activists. Btw my wife is no longer wanting a divorce, we are talking more about this.
@@AstroSquid that is great to hear! Love is the answer. Keep the faith
@@AstroSquid good luck, buddy. Hope you work it out. Tough times.
Awesome Viewpoints!!
I'm in general agreement with what's being said, but one more thing-- undue sympathy for criminals erases their victims from neing noticed.
Relying on the media in the _first_ place to direct your sympathies is even worse.
Can you please define "undue sympathy"? I'm curious to know what you mean.
When there's so much sympathy for a criminal that the damage they've cauxed gets ignored. @@dylanmarsh3511
I would say this guy is articulate, but then I'd be racist.
But in all seriousness, Jivani very effectively articulates the really messy motivations of why people get sucked into certain lifestyles. Speaks to me because when I was a teenager, I was on the verge of joining Atomwaffen. It was a huge struggle to get away from that shit.
I think alot of folks need to listen 23:30-24:30.
Im gonna steal that Stretch Armstrong from Coleman.
Incredible.
Outstanding! 👍
God fucking dammit, this is a good conversation
We are missing a prefrontal cortex until 25-30ish, lack of executive function. Fatherlessness accelerates physical and sexual development, end result reckless behavior to achieve status.
@18:00 hit me hard. Been trying to articulate this as cooperative vs adversarial interaction. I think it gets to the deeper intentions of 'participation trophy' culture where the trophy misses the moral compass of the intent.
So many of these SJW outrages (to my perspective) are really valid instincts that get twisted into simplistic _us vs them_ narratives that miss proposing solutions, or worse, creating deeper divides away from progress.
Main theme: role models
Wonder if Coleman would interview Tommy sotomayor and what he thinks of him
Isnt he mad homophobic an hateful towards women or has he changed his ways? Would there be any intellectual exchange?
Oh, no. Please don't!
@@VRGNHNS Criticising women does not equal hateful, I've never heard him say anything homophobic either.
@@guyjackson1261 th-cam.com/video/LWPZk_Yr0Dw/w-d-xo.html
@@VRGNHNS That seems like a joke to me. The anti-semitism stuff is troubling though.
Suspect use of force is the major factor in determining officer use of force. Want to save black lives from the police. Tell them to comply. Change the mentality from resisting the police when wrongfully arrested to "if I cooperate I can probably get a nice financial settlement for being harassed."
Cus they dont have anything better to do. The innate urge to act will grip young men no matter what. The only thing you can do is direct that energy towards something productive.
Sister interview when?
32:25
On that topic, might not be that relevant to the American context. I've seen plenty of left wing media here in Sweden actually discuss why swedes would be neonazis. I won't be able to give the full picture but lots of the factors that are broadly recognized are much smaller than you'd expect for the turnout. And immigration is not that big a problem. Statistically and in the day to day. It's hard to notice the small minority of recent immigrants. And now they have an anti-immigration party to vote for. In 2012 that was not the case. No political party criticised that idea which is not a good representative situation. Something that does come up a lot is that broad secularism and a weaker Christian ideology (we're protestant) has brought about a lack of community that some fill through joining extremist groups.
These newspapers have interviews with neo-nazis and ex-neonazis. Group belonging seems extremely important.
Maybe it's too extreme to attribute problems to that as much as I do but I genuinely do believe that a lot of groups that are empowered now is because people need a tribe. What tribe they choose can be explained by their early impressions, like seeking father figures.
Some of your thumbnails indicate 2019 instead of 2020
I believe many of them are not really sentient. The world needs smallpox.
the way he talks reminds me of Matt Damon. Watch his lips.
AIU sent me! Thanks
He looks like Charles Barkley
With a melanin problem
Yeah talk to Tommy Sotomayor
I’m a fan of Hughes but Jivani seems to have a blind spot about Islam (45m to 55m). He neglects how thoughts and actions of violent extremists can be inspired by *literal* interpretations of religious texts. The unfolding facts of the Paris teacher murder and countless other Islamist attacks attest to that.
As well as socio-politico-economic factors underlying jihadism, what the religious texts *actually say* should be taken into account, especially when jihadists themselves tell us unequivocally about their religious motivations. The Quran has many verses demonising the outgroup, in other words, infidels. Some other religions do this, but Islam is unique because crucially, its orthodoxy holds the Quran to be the inerrant word of God and beyond criticism. Such a level of literality and supremacy is not shared by any other world religion as far as I know. In terms of its *potential* for violence, Islam seems to be the most flammable of world religions because of its scriptural content and the status of its texts -- contrast with pacifist Jainism and Quakerism, among the least flammable.
As a thought system, Islam as conveyed through its texts is the polar opposite of the Enlightenment, the latter having reason, individual freedom and freedom of expression as core tenets. Neither Jivani nor Hughes, whose thinking bears the hallmark of that Enlightenment, seem to register just how influential Islamic texts are (Quran and Hadiths) in inspiring people to act in certain ways. To be fair to Hughes, he hinted at an awareness but didn’t elaborate.
Based on this video, they seem to think that violent religious extremists are motivated by anything other than what their religion actually says. Disappointing given their reasoned insights overall.
See: Daily Mirror item ‘Why We Hate You’ from a 2016 issue of ‘Dabiq’, the recruiting magazine of ISIS, which clearly shows their motivations. For access to source document subscribe to MEMRI at tinyurl.com/y4qjczpx
Peter Townsend ‘Nothing to do with Islam?’ 2016
. Graeme Wood ‘The Way of the Strangers’ 2017
As far as a I know, there have been and are many flavors of Islam. In Christianity, there are those churches that interpret scripture literally, but are also those that insist on interpreting many passages metaphorically.
that mm story is 1000000 of black people but you identified with mm
Wonder how this works w Ireland and the IRA
Is it just me or does Jamil sound like Post Malone?
Not all young men are.
hormones
Oppression Olympics.