You made some very good points, and I thought a lot of your approach and critique was reasonable. But then you said "They need to go do this township somewhere else.. back in Holland, the Netherlands, where ever they come from..." Their people have been there since 1652. Do you say the same to black people in America or Europe, that they should move to Africa? Do you tell people of Asian heritage that they should go to China or Japan or where ever their ancestors lived? Here in the US I have family and friends and neighbors whose families started all around the world and we are richer for it.
If any of those groups decided that they wanted their own colony in the US where only their people were allowed to live or freely visit then they should go back to whatever continent that they came from.
My family has been in South Africa since 1658. I have receipts. That's 118 years before the USA existed. 14 generations born and bred and died. 100s of family members laid to rest in this land, whose blood seasons this soil. I am culturally, spiritually, geographically and genetically South African. There is nowhere else. It's in the name AFRIKAner.
The Africkaners have lived in South Africa for over 350 years, it's their home too, they don't want to leave anymore than an American would want to leave the US whose ancestors come here centuries ago.
And they arrived in South Africa before many African tribes settled in the country, they arrived in the Cape 160 years before the Black tribes in the Eastern Cape even arrived at the fish river. This is a historical fact. in 1498 the Portuguese wrote in their diaries where they found tribes in South africa. They did not find blacks in South Africa, not in the Cape, not in Natal, they found them in Jan/Feb 1498 at the Cobre rio in present day Mozambique the location being inhambane, 200kms North east of Natal. Natal was bushman territory which the black tribes pushed out and colonized that area.
I give kudos to these gentlemen for making a true documentary and not I one-sided smear campaign. A agree with almost all the American gentlemen said about who truly controls Africa (and for that matter most of the world) it was an unbiased straight observation. It was informative and interesting to hear an opinion from an African American, I enjoyed this immensely
Yes and the reason why South Africa is kept ransom by other Countries like Russia is because after the rogues within the ANC emptied the coffers of trillions they had to resort to LOANS from other Countries. The 50billion of which Ramaphosa could not give an account for? So in reality we South Africans are living on borrowed time. The Country does not belong to us citizens anymore so I dunno why the EFF/PAC is wasting their energy🙄
The Amish here in the US are similar in some ways in that they live a very isolated life from normal US society and are homogeneous by design. This community of Afrikaners live in an isolated community in the middle of nowhere. They are not bothering anyone and basically just want to be left alone to live their lives in peace. I see no reason why this can't be accommodated. If anything, many communities in Africa could learn a thing or two about self reliance and self sufficiency from these folks. What they have accomplished in this regard is quite impressive.
I agree but you have two woke individuals here given to much air time on something they have no clue on, how about you two clowns stop discussing how to stop a community on building something and try building something yourselves.
Really agree with what the guy on the left was saying about how segregation was actually a good thing for African Americans. I agree, you shouldn't be aiming to make enough money to move into white or Jewish neighbourhoods, but to actually build your own. I hope more African Americans start thinking like this. I wish you all the best!
Thank you for being open minded! I do not believe, having watched other videos on Orania, that you would have been treated any different if you were black South Africans - certainy I would be very disappointed if that turned out to be the case. My take away is that we all need to respect each other, and importantly not try to impose solutions on each other. As you said some people might prefer to form their own communities, and I think that is fine, as long as they are never founded on the principle of hate to any other community. So if some folk wish to form an all black, all white or mixed community, let people find their comfort zone, which hopefully would then diffuse a lot of tensions. Whilst it is true that all too many Afrikaners, of previous generations, supported apartheid; I personally knew many, especially younger Afrikaners at the time, that were anti-apartheid, especially during the latter years of the apartheid regime (I say this as someone who opposed the apartheid system and was twice jailed and suffered beatings for doing so). It would however be unfair for me to turn my back on those Afrikaners that bravely gave me their support during those dark days, despite knowing they would be shunned or worse, by many in their community, for doing so. As one song goes, "we are all human after all".
We aren't Dutch, we are Africans. We made mistakes but so did the Zulus. Research the massacre they committed to other Bantu tribes. Please just allow us the right to exist in the only homeland we have. We don't hate anybody. Our kulture is not far from extinction. We are not a threat and have no aspirations to oppress others. Telling us to go to America is like telling Xhosas to stop living in the Eastern Cape so much or telling the Italian community in New York City to go back to Italy or closing China Towns. We all take pride in our imperfect cultures. Sorry to say but not one nation is guilt free if you go back far enough.
@@makeafricagreatagain04 You'd be the 1st to make a video on that. When you type Zululand into Google or TH-cam it's mostly news about the King or the Ingonyama Trust and not the people or the land.
Thank you guys for a very informative and balanced comment on your visit to Orania something we dont see often from people coming from abroad. The last part of your comment was a bit of a surprise to me as you must keep in mind the white Afrikaner came to SA in 1652, not 1948. They fought many wars since 1652 to secure a future for themselves and their offspring and they were never the agitator, they were always willing to negotiate. Anyway, thank you and God Bless.
Wow. It is 371 years since Jan van Riebeek arrived in South Africa. The French Huguenots arrived here a few years later in 1671. In 1820 the British settlers came to South Africa. How do white South Africans go back to Europe for the purpose of establishing an Afrikaner community there? It is not a reasonable suggestion. Should white settlers in North America go back to where they come from? And should African Americans endeavour to find their roots and go back to Africa? After all America was taken by force from the indigenous people. They are now basically mostly confined Indian reservations. Or at the very least they are fairly concentrated in a few states.In South Africa the most downtrodden people are the Khoisan. All tribes including the white tribe ran roughshod over them. Finally, how will it help healing the wounds of the black population if the Oranians were bannished. I'm very curious which of the African countries you most identify with. Have you any idea of your origins? And if you could say with some degree of certainty where your roots are, world you want to go back there? But I get it, you also hurt. For whatever your experience as an African American is.
AFRICA FOR AFRICANS, IF YOU DON'T IDENTIFY AS AN AFRICAN THERE IS NO LAND FOR YOU. SOON OR LATER THAT PLACE WILL CEASE TO EXIST WATCH.... DON'T SAY THERE WAS NO WARNING.
He doesn't understand that, what about the Indians, Chinese, and Malays that are living in South Africa? He wants to kick all races except black people.
If your father is buried in the land and your son is born on the land , you are of the land. And if anyone tell you otherwise, he is filthy conartist trying to usrupe your birthright. Peace
Nothing stops anyone in South Africa from forming their own community. Black people have s system called Ubuntu, that is a wonderful blue print for community building.
The concept of Orania is absolutely fantastic, and I am quite impressed with it, but there is another side of Orania, the residents are some of them are the most racist bigots and white supremacist.
Try living there if you're not white . Black Africans need to wake up white rule started with one settlement . Europeans are starting with one town next a province
Lets see you do a story on farm murders, we dare you. Also if you keep blaming what ancestors did then it should be fair in sharing the punishment as well, respective of race. With that said should you be punished if your grandfather or his father committed a crime? Remember to say yes the hold the standard without looking at race if no then stop blaming a group for what their ancestors did
Some great thought out words about Orania and understanding of todays Geopolitics. As you mention, more homogenous communities will have higher social trust, lower crime, and incentivize entrepreneurship. Perhaps we can have a discussion on how we can impact these types of beneficial things on a smaller scale.
That’s what I’ve been saying all along. Community is the way forward. They decide what is acceptable how they want others to view them, to keep watch over the young and vulnerable.
How dare you. The Afrikaaner is generations old. South Africa is our home as much as any black tribe that migrated into it from the north. The only true indigenous persons in South Africa are the Khoisan, not the Zulu, the Xhosa, the Pedi, the Shoto or the Swazis. So I'm offended by your characterization that we must go to the Netherlands, America, South America where we will only be regarded as immigrants. I'm a South African, and have as much right to determine the future of this country than any other South African. You as an American has no right to dictate. You were not born here nor have you generational right to judge.
Lets all go back to the cradle of mankind😂. Everyone, lets trace our roots to the very begining. I think mankind will probably still fight even if everybody traces their roots to someplace around/close to Kenya according to our current understanding. So lets crawl backwards into the seas and oceans while trying to map out the continental layouts of the time. Maybe we can start a new argument of which bacteria was at which geo-thermal vent. We can take it further - which asteroids brought your chemical elementary makeup. Go back to Mars, Venus, Andromeda. Hell, lets go extreme and lets all meet up at the big bang. If you prefer to go Biblical, go back to the garden of eden. Only then can we solve the problem. Seriously guys, no-one has to go back anywhere. Think deeply about it. We only have to move forward and make the best of our current situation. Stay positive, stay blessed regardless of your beliefs, traditions or origins. One love ❤
There's a saying "Birds of a feather tend to flock together". This is not abnormal behaviour and there are countless examples all over the world that exhibit this trait. On another note, there have been been quite a few Black leaders of communities who have consulted with the Orania leaders, to learn from them as they are disillusioned with the current government and want to implement the Orania model. That tells you something!!
please if you want to send certain community's out of the land that they were born in then I suggest that you do an intense research of our history. the only indigenous people to South Africa was the Khoi San, the blacks the whites and all other migrated so SA. And yes everybody had there own suffering........we apologized for our sins but the British that Colonised half of the world refuse to admit the murder and pain they caused. we had to fight them and lose the war most of the Afrikaner nation was wiped out ......the concentration camps where all the woman and children died of terrible disease and hunger is our pain. We did not fight them for the Afrikaner ....we fought for everybody in this country. Africa belongs to the Koi San .....they are tiny brown people still living in the mountains just because they prefer it that way. So my Question is how can SA belong to the black people.........they went out to become the majority, many many years ago.....but that does not give them ownership.......This land is our land and we all belong here
Why would they have to go somewhere else to make this community. They are South African Afrikaans people? Why would they go to America or South America? They are South Africans who decided in their own country where they are from to make a town where the Afrikaans culture and history is respected by all. They do no harm because the focus is to create a community that understands each other. If they could be integrated in South Africa why did they feel the need to make there own community? They cannot change the past or the behavior of there ancestors. For reference, most white people in South Africa are immigrants, no?
Fred is lying & very disingenuous about the old government. They did not say blacks were lazy, dangerous at all. If that was the case they would not have built up schools, teknicons, universities for blacks, more were built for blacks than whites - another historical fact everyone ignores. The only truly anti-colonial government South Africa had was under Verwoerd. Verwoerd wanted to break up the union of South Africa created in 1904 which pushed 11 black tribes, Coloureds and whites into one border. It will never work. It cannot work, it has never worked. The present gov complain about colonialism but never once did they try break up or give independence back to the homelands. NOT ONCE!
Good conversation. I would disagree they don't have a right to do it in Africa, Boers have been there since the 1600, their culture is inherently African. Also other southern African tribes oppressed each other, such as the Shona and Matabele, but still have a right to live there.
One point that was made here that stood out for me is the fact that you want to be part of something bigger than yourself. For me South Africa has lost this ideal, its now just every person for themselves.
I agree with you when it comes to the South African government. But you coming from the US I think it a bit rich to criticize. The US government has a ton of faults of it's own including corruption. Other then that good video.
How many Afrikaans are Zulu tribe members and living as a member of the tribe on tribal territory? These Afrikaans have been there for hundreds of years. They also bought the land and the SA government approved the purchase and township. Mind you, I’m not approving apartheid at all
Ok, only 6 min in…but I agree, we can implement the same strategies with an integrated community of all cultures and religions, as long as everyone does their part and contribute to a better life for all. The question is, how does one implement it in a big metropolis like Tshwane?
The way you're saying that they should go back to Europe is in fact, also racist. Their ancestors came from mid-1600s, the basis of their skin color is your only argument for wanting to kick them out. South Africa is a vast land, before, bunch of tribes have come and gone there, conquered and killed each other, if you see humans with no skin color attached, you'll think it was just tribe after tribe after tribe, and so on that conquers each other. But then it's alright if they're not white right? What about the North Africans? They share the same continent but they're not black people, do you have nothing to say against them? Their ancestors also conquered the land from the Berbers in medieval times. If you have a progressive mind, you'll understand that humanity is a constant chaos. We, modern people should stop that, by doing so, we should also end how we see people based on their skins, but their motives. If you drive your motivation with emotion, you'll get hatred in your heart, but if you focused on your mind and what you can do, you'll solve problems.
Their ancestors where welcomed by Khoisan, Xhosas etc to trade like the Chinese, Portuguese, British, but after centuries of being trading partners and being treated as brothers, the father of the Africaanas came back with soldiers in a couple of ships instead of normal trading goods and stabbed the South Africans in their backs after being taught how to farm the land, mine the minerals and everything else the Boers know, except rascism. Now they get private funds for Orania from far right nazis rascist who believe in white power, that's one big problem. Concept is all good and well as the gentlemen explained. They bought land using the systems they created. I'm with going to do it in rural Netherlands, maybe help rebuild Ukraine, anywhere but Afrika where like the Khoisan we not separated by colour. Respect Afrikan values like Europeans want others to respect theirs or else they send them back..
@@cazsdee3760 More rubbish, when the Dutch arrived in the Cape there were no black tribes in the Cape. The Xhosa only arrived at the fish river 180 years after the Dutch arrived. When the Portuguese arrived in December 1497 they found no bantus in South Africa. The Xhosa king was very happy to have the Boers push back the AmaRharabe tribe back to the AmaGalecka tribe. There were no minerals discoered until 1880 in the West of South Africa which could only be brought to the surface with European technology & the Western portion of the country was not bantu / black territory. Black HAVE NEVER mass farmed ever, you do not know what you are talking about. You have a problem with white power but not black power. South Africa did not exist until 1902, the country is split, West is a desert, East is the most fertile lands which the blacks had. They have the best land.
The one question that wasn't asked but should be addressed about acceptance into Orania is the skin pigmentation of applicants ??...there's Afrikaners that have darker skin pigmentation that ought to be given an opportunity to enter the fold ....and that would become model citizens 🤔...just asking...any replies will be treated with respect 🙏
Dude you go back to where you come from, the people you were talking to in Oralia were born in South Africa. If you insist on living in the past you will never ever get ahead. I’m so glad that the boere took this step and showed a light to the people in South Africa for a way ahead.
On the idea of them doing Orania in holland. They’re not allowed to go back like that. Europeans, aside from certain situations with the Swiss, do not have a right of return. Also doing Orania in the USA would be a news headliner until it was destroyed. In a distopia like SA, I wouldn’t get too mad about people building their own life rafts when the government actively rejects them. Every group should be copying what they are doing, preserving their language, and providing for themselves. culturally based small towns producing & cooperating could alleviate a lot of misery. Sure it’s not the diverse ideal western societies “prioritize”, but really who cares when half the population is unemployed or in crippling poverty. All ideas should be on the table.
Do you not see the irony in telling these people, who are clearly very poud of their cultural heritage in South Africa, to go to Europe or America, because its offensive to build their town in Africa? They see themselves as AFRICAN. NOT European. They have taken it upon themselves to build their OWN homeland, where they feel they belong, without relying on anyone else to do it, and your complaint is: "you are in Africa, go to europe, cause you are offending people!". 1. Why should they care who they are offending? They are just minding their own business and not harming anyone! 2. Who are you to tell them they dont belong in Africa? Dont you know that the Black bantu people in South Africa, actually originated from central African, and their tribes actually colonised South Africa as well? What makes them any different, or more welcome? You're American idea that the entire continent of Africa is just for black people, is just that: an AMERICAN idea! Stop being a parrot and think for yourself.
@@zile8869 my white friend shared the same sentiment as me and he's a white south African!! Go educate yourself on my ancestors history and how we build a community just like the one in Orania but in Oklahoma called black wall street and it was burned to the ground.....FACTS!!!
@@makeafricagreatagain04 Facts or not! It doesnt matter! Cause whether or not such a community existed in America, HAS NOTHING to do with whether or not Orania should exist in Africa! You were saying that Orania should be built in Europe or America instead of Africa. Presumably because the citizens are white and you believe in the tribalistic racist idea that certain races belong in certain areas of the world! Saying "black wallstreet existed", doesnt mean shit! Why does that in any way prove that Africa cant have non-black communities? Hint: It doesn't! Also, so what if your "white South African friend" agrees with you? I dont care what his or your race or nationality is! I see people as individuals, not members of groups. The point I was making by saying your idea was an "American" idea, is that it is not as common around the world as it is in America, to believe that Africa is only for Black people! So be under no illusion that this belief is universal! That is why you get so many black people in your comments saying they support Orania! It's not because they are "too nice". It's because they dont ascribe to this tribalistic idea that certain groups of people belong in certain places! They instead know that Africa is not just for black people, it's for arabs, whites and Indians too! It doesnt belong to any racial group, but rather to many individuals.
I understand that during segregation in America there were pockets of Black wealth accumulation. But the poverty rates for Black people were fars worse. We were segregated into the worst jobs, the worst housing and the worst education overall.
@@mansamusa9465 I am aware of the destruction of prosperous Black communities in America, however numerically they were a drop in a bucket , most Black communities were severely under resourced. There are far more Black millionaires now living in America than there were during segregation. In fact Black people as an ethnic group today have the second highest number of millionaires in America.. Segregation isn't the cure , what helps us to overcome is uniting to help one another.
"They should do this in Europe" is a common perspective, but as I understand it the whole point of Orania is to serve as a cultural heartland to the wider Afrikaner community, even the ones who don't live in Orania. Like even if Orania grows to have 10,000 people as they claim to be able to do (I doubt it, but still), that's basically nothing. A population of 10,000 is absolutely meaningless and will disappear in a few generations if they move wherever else. The point isn't just for them to go and live on a compound somewhere, otherwise they'd have emigrated to a place where there is water and electricity and so forth anyway. Rather they want their existence to serve as one of many lynchpins of the continued existence of Afrikaner culture per se. Doing it anywhere other than southern Africa would be a total waste of time.
Why not do it somewhere else? Afrikaners have bled as much in and for SA as any one else have. when it comes to racism, we (Afrikaners) have done some very shitty things in the past for sure, but we are not the only ones who sinned. Non the less, focusing on our sins. I am an average middle income Afrikaner man, if I had a kid, he would be the very last in line to get a job in SA because of what his great grandparents did, not what I did. to leave this place he would require to immigrate to a country that's most likely looking for qualifications that I can not afford to give him. You tend to make it sound like we can pack up and go anywhere we want, As Afrikaners, we can't. I looked into the US, you need an insane amount of money for a green card, England? You need an ancestral visa. Netherlands? They cut ties with us when the British came. Our neighbors? if we do that we'd still be in Africa so, guessing that's not far enough. My father was killed in a highjacking, yet I love this country, I love it's people, literally from "A"frikaner to "Z"ulu. We all have our own unique cultures that form part of SA. If we ALL can just be more tolerant of each other and grant each other their piece under the SA sun. there is definitely space for everyone
As a South African I think the best way to move forward as a country is to get rid of race as a concept it's not taking us anywhere. We should get rid of Black, Colored, Indian and White terminology and we should all be South African, one nation under God and ancestry..our biggest fight as South Africans is economic freedom most are marginalised economically a term I refer to as 'economic aphartheid'....as a person who lived and experienced aphartheid' I can safely say had the Mandela government let the Aphartheid' economy run for at least 10 years and intergrate the previously disadvantaged communities In that economy, we would have a far more equal society today.. instead that government chose to Americanise and Chinese this economy. Back then South Africa was self sufficient and 1 Rand was equivalent to 1 dollar..right now go to the mall in SA you will find more American stores than South African, the clothes are made in China unlike before when we made our own. One reason African American would rather move here than anywhere else in Africa is because SA is Americanise than most African states. To help SAns let's live the race thing and start economic opportunity, if we don't do that then a civil war will happen here in no time, there is too much tension within SA, with the races and illigal immigrants
Race is real, the only ones who dont believe it are whites. You may not see race but all other races see you. Do you call all the birds in South Africa birds or do we have different classifications? The best way to get rid of race is to segregate and split up South Africa so each tribe rules their own portion of the country. This way they can choose to work with who they want to work with. Race is a concept because it is real trying to sugar coat it and pretend it does not exist only makes it worse. Pianists love pianos, guitarists love guitars, it does not mean a pianist hates guitars but that he loves piano more than playing a guitar, a racist is someone who loves his own race & culture. If an African American is a racist, I have no problem, he has his choice, I do not want to remove that choice. Its HIS choice, the same applies for all cultures including white South Africans.
"get rid of Black, Colored, Indian and White terminology and we should all be South African, one nation under God and ancestry." That is the current Global Agenda, and it is not working out to well, is it?
Orania makes everyone else jealous,they bought some land in the DESERT and it’s thriving ,the new Africans now own all the GOOD land and can’t make it work,some of which was seized by force ,they are resentful and envious ,because they just can’t do it no matter how much help and support they get ,because they are lazy and don’t work to build and it’s getting to undeniable
That sound good but Africa is NOT the place for ORANIA to practice separation from Black Africans. Orania must be under of South African government. The ANC is very weak.
I understand your point, but can we learn from the positive views about the infrastructure from Orania to apply on the rest of South Africa, so that the standard of living on the native Africans would be the same, but without white only?
The concept of Orania is just not sustainable. It's racist IMO. If they want to preserve their language, they can build universities anywhere in the country. They don't need to live next to each other to preserve their culture. What if the black majority in SA decide that they only want black people in SA so that they can preserve their own culture? Would that be acceptable? We need to stop thinking of ourselves by our colour, but simply as human beings. I can promise you that Orania will not last. The people in that community will be forced to live with blacks and Asians. It's just a matter of time.
Its worked out for years now and we know the place is literally in the middle of nowhere , blacks seek for oportunities in more alluring areas and where its fast paced , orania is patient and a bit of a drag at this rate most black SAs aren’t after that sort of thing
Great video my brother. I can respect it coming from one of our own. They definitely need to do that somewhere else. Apartheid laws allowed them to exist from what I heard.
Actually it is the new constitution that grants this freedom. Afrikaners are every bit as African as any other tribe. Study the history of who arrived where and when but do it honestly and do it to learn and to better your understanding of South Africa. Bantus simply were not the first or event the second to arrive in vast parts of the land. Hats off to the Khoi and San who had to fight against extinction at the hand of Bantu tribes.
I think Orania deserves their piece of their land. It's a small sliver from the past. But they do have their own culture that goes back the Boer Wars. I'm an American. Should I back to Europe because this is not technically my family's land of origin? And it was said in the previous video. Orania was allowed by the SA constitution. Just let it go.
Right and there were several other black communities they destroyed. Wilmington, North Carolina, where they overthrew the black public officials, Atlanta, Arkansas and Rosewood, Fla too. So many times, we build our own communities, but they kept destroying. That also kills motivation to even build again. Will the South African Government destroy Orania? I doubt it or maybe they've tried. I dont know. Lol
You made some very good points, and I thought a lot of your approach and critique was reasonable. But then you said "They need to go do this township somewhere else.. back in Holland, the Netherlands, where ever they come from..." Their people have been there since 1652. Do you say the same to black people in America or Europe, that they should move to Africa? Do you tell people of Asian heritage that they should go to China or Japan or where ever their ancestors lived? Here in the US I have family and friends and neighbors whose families started all around the world and we are richer for it.
If any of those groups decided that they wanted their own colony in the US where only their people were allowed to live or freely visit then they should go back to whatever continent that they came from.
My family has been in South Africa since 1658. I have receipts. That's 118 years before the USA existed. 14 generations born and bred and died. 100s of family members laid to rest in this land, whose blood seasons this soil. I am culturally, spiritually, geographically and genetically South African. There is nowhere else. It's in the name AFRIKAner.
The Africkaners have lived in South Africa for over 350 years, it's their home too, they don't want to leave anymore than an American would want to leave the US whose ancestors come here centuries ago.
And they arrived in South Africa before many African tribes settled in the country, they arrived in the Cape 160 years before the Black tribes in the Eastern Cape even arrived at the fish river. This is a historical fact. in 1498 the Portuguese wrote in their diaries where they found tribes in South africa. They did not find blacks in South Africa, not in the Cape, not in Natal, they found them in Jan/Feb 1498 at the Cobre rio in present day Mozambique the location being inhambane, 200kms North east of Natal. Natal was bushman territory which the black tribes pushed out and colonized that area.
I give kudos to these gentlemen for making a true documentary and not I one-sided smear campaign. A agree with almost all the American gentlemen said about who truly controls Africa (and for that matter most of the world) it was an unbiased straight observation. It was informative and interesting to hear an opinion from an African American, I enjoyed this immensely
Thank you so much.... 💯
Yes and the reason why South Africa is kept ransom by other Countries like Russia is because after the rogues within the ANC emptied the coffers of trillions they had to resort to LOANS from other Countries. The 50billion of which Ramaphosa could not give an account for? So in reality we South Africans are living on borrowed time. The Country does not belong to us citizens anymore so I dunno why the EFF/PAC is wasting their energy🙄
The Amish here in the US are similar in some ways in that they live a very isolated life from normal US society and are homogeneous by design. This community of Afrikaners live in an isolated community in the middle of nowhere. They are not bothering anyone and basically just want to be left alone to live their lives in peace. I see no reason why this can't be accommodated. If anything, many communities in Africa could learn a thing or two about self reliance and self sufficiency from these folks. What they have accomplished in this regard is quite impressive.
I agree but you have two woke individuals here given to much air time on something they have no clue on, how about you two clowns stop discussing how to stop a community on building something and try building something yourselves.
Amish are not racist their abort black people, orania is racist
You got stuck on the word racist. Please recover yourself and move on. @@more2much696
Really agree with what the guy on the left was saying about how segregation was actually a good thing for African Americans. I agree, you shouldn't be aiming to make enough money to move into white or Jewish neighbourhoods, but to actually build your own. I hope more African Americans start thinking like this. I wish you all the best!
The bottom line is that life is a game and when you are in your own community I feel that you live a better life
Some people will agree with you and some people won't. I personally like diversity......adds a little flavor to my surroundings. 🤟
Thank you for being open minded! I do not believe, having watched other videos on Orania, that you would have been treated any different if you were black South Africans - certainy I would be very disappointed if that turned out to be the case. My take away is that we all need to respect each other, and importantly not try to impose solutions on each other. As you said some people might prefer to form their own communities, and I think that is fine, as long as they are never founded on the principle of hate to any other community. So if some folk wish to form an all black, all white or mixed community, let people find their comfort zone, which hopefully would then diffuse a lot of tensions. Whilst it is true that all too many Afrikaners, of previous generations, supported apartheid; I personally knew many, especially younger Afrikaners at the time, that were anti-apartheid, especially during the latter years of the apartheid regime (I say this as someone who opposed the apartheid system and was twice jailed and suffered beatings for doing so). It would however be unfair for me to turn my back on those Afrikaners that bravely gave me their support during those dark days, despite knowing they would be shunned or worse, by many in their community, for doing so. As one song goes, "we are all human after all".
Great comment thank you
South Africans, black and white, are all really friendly people. We are not so different.
I don't see you at the all white town protesting Susan...
You should read Thomas Sowell. He describes how much damage the government did through the civil rights movement to your community.
We aren't Dutch, we are Africans. We made mistakes but so did the Zulus. Research the massacre they committed to other Bantu tribes. Please just allow us the right to exist in the only homeland we have. We don't hate anybody. Our kulture is not far from extinction. We are not a threat and have no aspirations to oppress others. Telling us to go to America is like telling Xhosas to stop living in the Eastern Cape so much or telling the Italian community in New York City to go back to Italy or closing China Towns. We all take pride in our imperfect cultures. Sorry to say but not one nation is guilt free if you go back far enough.
Looking forward to the video on your visit to Zululand.
That would be an interesting one.
Working on it...💯
@@makeafricagreatagain04 You'd be the 1st to make a video on that. When you type Zululand into Google or TH-cam it's mostly news about the King or the Ingonyama Trust and not the people or the land.
Thank you guys for a very informative and balanced comment on your visit to Orania something we dont see often from people coming from abroad. The last part of your comment was a bit of a surprise to me as you must keep in mind the white Afrikaner came to SA in 1652, not 1948. They fought many wars since 1652 to secure a future for themselves and their offspring and they were never the agitator, they were always willing to negotiate. Anyway, thank you and God Bless.
Glad you enjoyed it!
@water6215 doesnt matter. That's almost 4 cebturies. They are disconnected from wherever their ancestors came from
@water6215 thats fine. I dont think they've ever claimed African cultures as their own.
Wow. It is 371 years since Jan van Riebeek arrived in South Africa. The French Huguenots arrived here a few years later in 1671. In 1820 the British settlers came to South Africa. How do white South Africans go back to Europe for the purpose of establishing an Afrikaner community there? It is not a reasonable suggestion. Should white settlers in North America go back to where they come from? And should African Americans endeavour to find their roots and go back to Africa? After all America was taken by force from the indigenous people. They are now basically mostly confined Indian reservations. Or at the very least they are fairly concentrated in a few states.In South Africa the most downtrodden people are the Khoisan. All tribes including the white tribe ran roughshod over them. Finally, how will it help healing the wounds of the black population if the Oranians were bannished. I'm very curious which of the African countries you most identify with. Have you any idea of your origins? And if you could say with some degree of certainty where your roots are, world you want to go back there? But I get it, you also hurt. For whatever your experience as an African American is.
AFRICA FOR AFRICANS, IF YOU DON'T IDENTIFY AS AN AFRICAN THERE IS NO LAND FOR YOU. SOON OR LATER THAT PLACE WILL CEASE TO EXIST WATCH.... DON'T SAY THERE WAS NO WARNING.
He doesn't understand that, what about the Indians, Chinese, and Malays that are living in South Africa? He wants to kick all races except black people.
Good questions
If your father is buried in the land and your son is born on the land , you are of the land. And if anyone tell you otherwise, he is filthy conartist trying to usrupe your birthright. Peace
Nothing stops anyone in South Africa from forming their own community. Black people have s system called Ubuntu, that is a wonderful blue print for community building.
Orania is not racist people of all are welcome but you need to follow there believes and culture .
The concept of Orania is absolutely fantastic, and I am quite impressed with it, but there is another side of Orania, the residents are some of them are the most racist bigots and white supremacist.
Try living there if you're not white . Black Africans need to wake up white rule started with one settlement . Europeans are starting with one town next a province
What are the beliefs and culture? I want to move to Orania.
That is nonsense white people can be traditional healers and spiritual healers
Vast majority of SA is segregated right now, where probably 80 percent of communities are totally Black...how's that different?
It's different because whites aren't barred from living around blacks in other areas, they just don't want to.
I'm even more impressed with this video than the first! It is refreshing to see civility on the internet.
Lets see you do a story on farm murders, we dare you. Also if you keep blaming what ancestors did then it should be fair in sharing the punishment as well, respective of race. With that said should you be punished if your grandfather or his father committed a crime? Remember to say yes the hold the standard without looking at race if no then stop blaming a group for what their ancestors did
On a more higher note this same idea can be duplicated inside an Afrikan village why not? well God bless Afrika
So glad you are brave enough to step out of your comfort zone and examine this town and report candidly. God Bless your channel
I really appreciate you seeing that and commenting! Please pray for my channel and please share my channel with family and friends 🙏
So when will you go to Zimbabwe?
Some great thought out words about Orania and understanding of todays Geopolitics. As you mention, more homogenous communities will have higher social trust, lower crime, and incentivize entrepreneurship.
Perhaps we can have a discussion on how we can impact these types of beneficial things on a smaller scale.
As a South african
the key is community...I am a moralist
.. not about colour or race....NO morals move on
It's a shame Blacks don't have a sense of community, black on black crime is out of charts.
That’s what I’ve been saying all along. Community is the way forward. They decide what is acceptable how they want others to view them, to keep watch over the young and vulnerable.
Thank u for sharing this information with us
South Africa is also an immigrant nation.
How dare you. The Afrikaaner is generations old. South Africa is our home as much as any black tribe that migrated into it from the north. The only true indigenous persons in South Africa are the Khoisan, not the Zulu, the Xhosa, the Pedi, the Shoto or the Swazis. So I'm offended by your characterization that we must go to the Netherlands, America, South America where we will only be regarded as immigrants. I'm a South African, and have as much right to determine the future of this country than any other South African. You as an American has no right to dictate. You were not born here nor have you generational right to judge.
I KNOW THAT I AM TRUE AND INDIGENOUS SOUTH AFRICAN. I DON'T NEED A COLONIAL DESCRIPTION OF WHO I AM.
😮
Great thing you are doing bro. Wish you and your family the best.
Thanks brotha 🙏
Thanks brotha 🙏
This was informative. Thank you.
Lets all go back to the cradle of mankind😂. Everyone, lets trace our roots to the very begining. I think mankind will probably still fight even if everybody traces their roots to someplace around/close to Kenya according to our current understanding. So lets crawl backwards into the seas and oceans while trying to map out the continental layouts of the time. Maybe we can start a new argument of which bacteria was at which geo-thermal vent. We can take it further - which asteroids brought your chemical elementary makeup. Go back to Mars, Venus, Andromeda. Hell, lets go extreme and lets all meet up at the big bang. If you prefer to go Biblical, go back to the garden of eden. Only then can we solve the problem. Seriously guys, no-one has to go back anywhere. Think deeply about it. We only have to move forward and make the best of our current situation. Stay positive, stay blessed regardless of your beliefs, traditions or origins. One love ❤
There's a saying "Birds of a feather tend to flock together". This is not abnormal behaviour and there are countless examples all over the world that exhibit this trait.
On another note, there have been been quite a few Black leaders of communities who have consulted with the Orania leaders, to learn from them as they are disillusioned with the current government and want to implement the Orania model. That tells you something!!
please if you want to send certain community's out of the land that they were born in then I suggest that you do an intense research of our history. the only indigenous people to South Africa was the Khoi San, the blacks the whites and all other migrated so SA. And yes everybody had there own suffering........we apologized for our sins but the British that Colonised half of the world refuse to admit the murder and pain they caused. we had to fight them and lose the war most of the Afrikaner nation was wiped out ......the concentration camps where all the woman and children died of terrible disease and hunger is our pain. We did not fight them for the Afrikaner ....we fought for everybody in this country. Africa belongs to the Koi San .....they are tiny brown people still living in the mountains just because they prefer it that way. So my Question is how can SA belong to the black people.........they went out to become the majority, many many years ago.....but that does not give them ownership.......This land is our land and we all belong here
The Khoisan are black people soooo? All of Africa was originally inhabitated by black people......white people are from other regions.
Why would they have to go somewhere else to make this community. They are South African Afrikaans people? Why would they go to America or South America? They are South Africans who decided in their own country where they are from to make a town where the Afrikaans culture and history is respected by all. They do no harm because the focus is to create a community that understands each other. If they could be integrated in South Africa why did they feel the need to make there own community? They cannot change the past or the behavior of there ancestors. For reference, most white people in South Africa are immigrants, no?
Fred is lying & very disingenuous about the old government. They did not say blacks were lazy, dangerous at all. If that was the case they would not have built up schools, teknicons, universities for blacks, more were built for blacks than whites - another historical fact everyone ignores. The only truly anti-colonial government South Africa had was under Verwoerd. Verwoerd wanted to break up the union of South Africa created in 1904 which pushed 11 black tribes, Coloureds and whites into one border. It will never work. It cannot work, it has never worked. The present gov complain about colonialism but never once did they try break up or give independence back to the homelands. NOT ONCE!
Good conversation. I would disagree they don't have a right to do it in Africa, Boers have been there since the 1600, their culture is inherently African. Also other southern African tribes oppressed each other, such as the Shona and Matabele, but still have a right to live there.
One point that was made here that stood out for me is the fact that you want to be part of something bigger than yourself. For me South Africa has lost this ideal, its now just every person for themselves.
I agree with you when it comes to the South African government. But you coming from the US I think it a bit rich to criticize. The US government has a ton of faults of it's own including corruption. Other then that good video.
How many Afrikaans are Zulu tribe members and living as a member of the tribe on tribal territory? These Afrikaans have been there for hundreds of years. They also bought the land and the SA government approved the purchase and township. Mind you, I’m not approving apartheid at all
Love the fact that you guys did a follow up video
Ok, only 6 min in…but I agree, we can implement the same strategies with an integrated community of all cultures and religions, as long as everyone does their part and contribute to a better life for all. The question is, how does one implement it in a big metropolis like Tshwane?
Maybe you should interview people you have no ideal what your talking about Bro!
Thanks for sharing
The way you're saying that they should go back to Europe is in fact, also racist. Their ancestors came from mid-1600s, the basis of their skin color is your only argument for wanting to kick them out. South Africa is a vast land, before, bunch of tribes have come and gone there, conquered and killed each other, if you see humans with no skin color attached, you'll think it was just tribe after tribe after tribe, and so on that conquers each other. But then it's alright if they're not white right? What about the North Africans? They share the same continent but they're not black people, do you have nothing to say against them? Their ancestors also conquered the land from the Berbers in medieval times.
If you have a progressive mind, you'll understand that humanity is a constant chaos. We, modern people should stop that, by doing so, we should also end how we see people based on their skins, but their motives. If you drive your motivation with emotion, you'll get hatred in your heart, but if you focused on your mind and what you can do, you'll solve problems.
Their ancestors where welcomed by Khoisan, Xhosas etc to trade like the Chinese, Portuguese, British, but after centuries of being trading partners and being treated as brothers, the father of the Africaanas came back with soldiers in a couple of ships instead of normal trading goods and stabbed the South Africans in their backs after being taught how to farm the land, mine the minerals and everything else the Boers know, except rascism. Now they get private funds for Orania from far right nazis rascist who believe in white power, that's one big problem. Concept is all good and well as the gentlemen explained. They bought land using the systems they created. I'm with going to do it in rural Netherlands, maybe help rebuild Ukraine, anywhere but Afrika where like the Khoisan we not separated by colour. Respect Afrikan values like Europeans want others to respect theirs or else they send them back..
@@cazsdee3760 More rubbish, when the Dutch arrived in the Cape there were no black tribes in the Cape. The Xhosa only arrived at the fish river 180 years after the Dutch arrived. When the Portuguese arrived in December 1497 they found no bantus in South Africa. The Xhosa king was very happy to have the Boers push back the AmaRharabe tribe back to the AmaGalecka tribe. There were no minerals discoered until 1880 in the West of South Africa which could only be brought to the surface with European technology & the Western portion of the country was not bantu / black territory. Black HAVE NEVER mass farmed ever, you do not know what you are talking about. You have a problem with white power but not black power. South Africa did not exist until 1902, the country is split, West is a desert, East is the most fertile lands which the blacks had. They have the best land.
The one question that wasn't asked but should be addressed about acceptance into Orania is the skin pigmentation of applicants ??...there's Afrikaners that have darker skin pigmentation that ought to be given an opportunity to enter the fold ....and that would become model citizens 🤔...just asking...any replies will be treated with respect 🙏
Any Afrikaans speaker van apply to live in Orania as far as I know...
Dude you go back to where you come from, the people you were talking to in Oralia were born in South Africa. If you insist on living in the past you will never ever get ahead. I’m so glad that the boere took this step and showed a light to the people in South Africa for a way ahead.
On the idea of them doing Orania in holland. They’re not allowed to go back like that. Europeans, aside from certain situations with the Swiss, do not have a right of return. Also doing Orania in the USA would be a news headliner until it was destroyed.
In a distopia like SA, I wouldn’t get too mad about people building their own life rafts when the government actively rejects them. Every group should be copying what they are doing, preserving their language, and providing for themselves. culturally based small towns producing & cooperating could alleviate a lot of misery. Sure it’s not the diverse ideal western societies “prioritize”, but really who cares when half the population is unemployed or in crippling poverty. All ideas should be on the table.
If the ruling government doesn't hold each other accountable, who are we to change that, We can only use our votes to change the narrative.
Do you not see the irony in telling these people, who are clearly very poud of their cultural heritage in South Africa, to go to Europe or America, because its offensive to build their town in Africa?
They see themselves as AFRICAN. NOT European.
They have taken it upon themselves to build their OWN homeland, where they feel they belong, without relying on anyone else to do it, and your complaint is: "you are in Africa, go to europe, cause you are offending people!".
1. Why should they care who they are offending? They are just minding their own business and not harming anyone!
2. Who are you to tell them they dont belong in Africa? Dont you know that the Black bantu people in South Africa, actually originated from central African, and their tribes actually colonised South Africa as well? What makes them any different, or more welcome?
You're American idea that the entire continent of Africa is just for black people, is just that: an AMERICAN idea!
Stop being a parrot and think for yourself.
@@zile8869 🙄😴😂😂😂😂
@@zile8869 my white friend shared the same sentiment as me and he's a white south African!! Go educate yourself on my ancestors history and how we build a community just like the one in Orania but in Oklahoma called black wall street and it was burned to the ground.....FACTS!!!
@@makeafricagreatagain04 Facts or not! It doesnt matter!
Cause whether or not such a community existed in America, HAS NOTHING to do with whether or not Orania should exist in Africa!
You were saying that Orania should be built in Europe or America instead of Africa. Presumably because the citizens are white and you believe in the tribalistic racist idea that certain races belong in certain areas of the world!
Saying "black wallstreet existed", doesnt mean shit! Why does that in any way prove that Africa cant have non-black communities? Hint: It doesn't!
Also, so what if your "white South African friend" agrees with you? I dont care what his or your race or nationality is! I see people as individuals, not members of groups.
The point I was making by saying your idea was an "American" idea, is that it is not as common around the world as it is in America, to believe that Africa is only for Black people! So be under no illusion that this belief is universal!
That is why you get so many black people in your comments saying they support Orania! It's not because they are "too nice". It's because they dont ascribe to this tribalistic idea that certain groups of people belong in certain places! They instead know that Africa is not just for black people, it's for arabs, whites and Indians too! It doesnt belong to any racial group, but rather to many individuals.
Racial integration in South Africa its just an instrument that exposes financial inequality that is emernated from apartheid.
I understand that during segregation in America there were pockets of Black wealth accumulation. But the poverty rates for Black people were fars worse. We were segregated into the worst jobs, the worst housing and the worst education overall.
You forget to mention the 200 Prosperous independent self sustaining Black towns that were decimated by jealous YT mobs
@@mansamusa9465 I am aware of the destruction of prosperous Black communities in America, however numerically they were a drop in a bucket , most Black communities were severely under resourced. There are far more Black millionaires now living in America than there were during segregation. In fact Black people as an ethnic group today have the second highest number of millionaires in America.. Segregation isn't the cure , what helps us to overcome is uniting to help one another.
"They should do this in Europe" is a common perspective, but as I understand it the whole point of Orania is to serve as a cultural heartland to the wider Afrikaner community, even the ones who don't live in Orania. Like even if Orania grows to have 10,000 people as they claim to be able to do (I doubt it, but still), that's basically nothing. A population of 10,000 is absolutely meaningless and will disappear in a few generations if they move wherever else. The point isn't just for them to go and live on a compound somewhere, otherwise they'd have emigrated to a place where there is water and electricity and so forth anyway. Rather they want their existence to serve as one of many lynchpins of the continued existence of Afrikaner culture per se. Doing it anywhere other than southern Africa would be a total waste of time.
They are aiming to become Singapore.
Why not do it somewhere else? Afrikaners have bled as much in and for SA as any one else have. when it comes to racism, we (Afrikaners) have done some very shitty things in the past for sure, but we are not the only ones who sinned. Non the less, focusing on our sins. I am an average middle income Afrikaner man, if I had a kid, he would be the very last in line to get a job in SA because of what his great grandparents did, not what I did. to leave this place he would require to immigrate to a country that's most likely looking for qualifications that I can not afford to give him. You tend to make it sound like we can pack up and go anywhere we want, As Afrikaners, we can't. I looked into the US, you need an insane amount of money for a green card, England? You need an ancestral visa. Netherlands? They cut ties with us when the British came. Our neighbors? if we do that we'd still be in Africa so, guessing that's not far enough. My father was killed in a highjacking, yet I love this country, I love it's people, literally from "A"frikaner to "Z"ulu. We all have our own unique cultures that form part of SA. If we ALL can just be more tolerant of each other and grant each other their piece under the SA sun. there is definitely space for everyone
As a South African I think the best way to move forward as a country is to get rid of race as a concept it's not taking us anywhere. We should get rid of Black, Colored, Indian and White terminology and we should all be South African, one nation under God and ancestry..our biggest fight as South Africans is economic freedom most are marginalised economically a term I refer to as 'economic aphartheid'....as a person who lived and experienced aphartheid' I can safely say had the Mandela government let the Aphartheid' economy run for at least 10 years and intergrate the previously disadvantaged communities In that economy, we would have a far more equal society today.. instead that government chose to Americanise and Chinese this economy. Back then South Africa was self sufficient and 1 Rand was equivalent to 1 dollar..right now go to the mall in SA you will find more American stores than South African, the clothes are made in China unlike before when we made our own. One reason African American would rather move here than anywhere else in Africa is because SA is Americanise than most African states. To help SAns let's live the race thing and start economic opportunity, if we don't do that then a civil war will happen here in no time, there is too much tension within SA, with the races and illigal immigrants
Race is real, the only ones who dont believe it are whites. You may not see race but all other races see you. Do you call all the birds in South Africa birds or do we have different classifications? The best way to get rid of race is to segregate and split up South Africa so each tribe rules their own portion of the country. This way they can choose to work with who they want to work with. Race is a concept because it is real trying to sugar coat it and pretend it does not exist only makes it worse. Pianists love pianos, guitarists love guitars, it does not mean a pianist hates guitars but that he loves piano more than playing a guitar, a racist is someone who loves his own race & culture. If an African American is a racist, I have no problem, he has his choice, I do not want to remove that choice. Its HIS choice, the same applies for all cultures including white South Africans.
"get rid of Black, Colored, Indian and White terminology and we should all be South African, one nation under God and ancestry." That is the current Global Agenda, and it is not working out to well, is it?
Orania makes everyone else jealous,they bought some land in the DESERT and it’s thriving ,the new Africans now own all the GOOD land and can’t make it work,some of which was seized by force ,they are resentful and envious ,because they just can’t do it no matter how much help and support they get ,because they are lazy and don’t work to build and it’s getting to undeniable
🤣🤣🤔
You clearly don't know what you're talking about because they don't actually own the land! Majority of the land is still owned by whites smh
none of the places you named respect there beliefs and what they are doing. if anything south africans are more accepting then americans.
That sound good but Africa is NOT the place for ORANIA to practice separation from Black Africans. Orania must be under of South African government. The ANC is very weak.
Agreed and I stated that if you watched towards the end.....
Do you think black people could have done this in Europe? Hell no. Black south Africans should burn the place down.
@Neder Moor stay of you tube with that bs
I am pure black unfortunately i just hate black government
I understand your point, but can we learn from the positive views about the infrastructure from Orania to apply on the rest of South Africa, so that the standard of living on the native Africans would be the same, but without white only?
Orania can not be Christian
The concept of Orania is just not sustainable. It's racist IMO. If they want to preserve their language, they can build universities anywhere in the country. They don't need to live next to each other to preserve their culture. What if the black majority in SA decide that they only want black people in SA so that they can preserve their own culture? Would that be acceptable? We need to stop thinking of ourselves by our colour, but simply as human beings. I can promise you that Orania will not last. The people in that community will be forced to live with blacks and Asians. It's just a matter of time.
Its worked out for years now and we know the place is literally in the middle of nowhere , blacks seek for oportunities in more alluring areas and where its fast paced , orania is patient and a bit of a drag at this rate most black SAs aren’t after that sort of thing
Groot Marico,swartruggens,Koster,zeerust are white towne
Great video my brother. I can respect it coming from one of our own. They definitely need to do that somewhere else. Apartheid laws allowed them to exist from what I heard.
Thanks my sista....I definitely agree!
It's the current constitution actually Section 235
Actually it is the new constitution that grants this freedom. Afrikaners are every bit as African as any other tribe. Study the history of who arrived where and when but do it honestly and do it to learn and to better your understanding of South Africa. Bantus simply were not the first or event the second to arrive in vast parts of the land. Hats off to the Khoi and San who had to fight against extinction at the hand of Bantu tribes.
@@Chrisjan0.7 the Dutch people will never be Afrikans period! The land belongs to The Most High God and his chosen people who are the Bantus!
@@diasporaconnecttanzania3521 My ass you are.
I think Orania deserves their piece of their land. It's a small sliver from the past. But they do have their own culture that goes back the Boer Wars. I'm an American. Should I back to Europe because this is not technically my family's land of origin? And it was said in the previous video. Orania was allowed by the SA constitution. Just let it go.
Brother you must tell the entire story. Black wall street was burnt down and most if the people was killed.
Great point....will do in the future
Right and there were several other black communities they destroyed. Wilmington, North Carolina, where they overthrew the black public officials, Atlanta, Arkansas and Rosewood, Fla too. So many times, we build our own communities, but they kept destroying. That also kills motivation to even build again. Will the South African Government destroy Orania? I doubt it or maybe they've tried. I dont know. Lol
He is too young for this type of story, this is how these people get in and try and take over.
@The Hawk who is these people?
@@taharka3897 These White people