I'm actually reading Water Margin at the moment, which is one of the classic Chinese novels about martial arts (among other things). And the heroes of that book are not exactly role models. They drink, steal, and fight. They are rebels and gangsters. As far as I know, in historical China, martial artists were mostly considered troublemakers and the opposite of virtuous. The warrior monk ideal might be a pretty recent myth.
Yep. There were a lot of reasons the CCP initially tried to stamp out traditional martial arts practices during the cultural revolution. One of them was to exterminate gangs. Exclusive loyalty to a martial arts instructor, or worse, a martial arts gang, instead of loyalty to the party, is in direct violation of Chinese communist doctrine. There’s a beautiful public park here in Shanghai I visit often that used to be an estate owned by such a gang. It was a very different world prior to the 1950’s.
It varies. The majority of men and women who practiced martial arts in ancient china were nobles, so they would have been individuals of considerable wealth and social status, and Confucian doctrine during the time emphasized living morally to the nobility. As for the warrior monk, it isn’t a myth either, there were warriors throughout history who were monks but also martial skilled(Knights Templar and the monks of the shaolin for instance), who were noted for their nobility(in a morals sense not a social status sense).
Beautifully explained @@RamseyDewey . I'm currently reading about the cultural revolution and things make a whole lot more sense now so far as the old and new
yes. when the martial training was adapted to a modern context in which people don't often beat/slash/shoot each other to the death, the actual techniques were modified to be used in controlled environments (friendly sparring, competitions, regulated fights etc) and ethics of mutual respect and character development were, at least in some arts, introduced to help tone down their violent origins. i personally enjoy it. the teaching of the "real stuff" would be impossible (and maybe ill-advised) in current times, beyond actual police or military training, without the philosophical aspects and technical modifications. also, the arts are not restricted to warrior castes anymore, so everybody wins
I agree it's important to distinguish between martial skills and ethos, but I can see why the two are so often intertwined. Getting good at violence comes with responsibility. Many of those old european fencing treatises do mention the kind of martial ethos and character that should accompany their art.
Yes, as a practical matter, fighting techniques have no particular morality that can be attached to them, yet almost all instruction IN fighting is done in some kind of ethical environment/context (dojo/gym/bootcamp). Teaching and learning how to fight is usually seen as requiring some kind of moral/ethical obligation on the part of those involved, and this is something that is seen across history and cultures.
just like a true soldier is a terrifyingly effective killers and a true officer is someone who deals a permanent blow to crime, even if it's city hall. not people to be trifled with or taken lightly. definitely not people you sit down and have a beer with
I think martial arts can help make people better people by building confidence. I think a lot of bad stuff in this world is caused by fear and insecurity. With more confidence you can respond to bad situations in a more calm and compassionate manner.
I think that's not "confidence", but simply having fewer problems yourself. That can make you less inward and more open and therefore more helpful. Prior to learning how to fight it's perfectly reasonable not to have "confidence". Just like it's reasonable and good not to be confident in the mountains prior to hiking and climbing experience.
@@MrCmon113, context is key. Base confidence is really good to have. To use your analogy, a novice at hiking can still have base confidence that they’ll become good at it with experience.
@Kerygmachela Wrong, dumbass. There is no direct correlation between Confidence and being a good person. In fact, most Confident people aren't! This is why Women always end up with assholes or the "bad boy". It's easy to be confident if you have no morals. You know who was the most Confident of Men?. Adolph Hitler!
@@GaryTongue-zn5dii sincerly doubt vincentio saviolo had good modern english spelling (and the frase is in italian grammar, if you translate word for word it makes perfect sense)
I was just talking few days ago with some friends about how the "chivalry code" popularized in medieval europe was the EXACT equivalent of the Bushido that allegedly should have been the guide line of samurai. In the sense that both were heavily romanticized and idealized versions of far more pragmatic (and often less flattering) truths about their typical behavior.
@@TucoBenedicto then what you were talking about was completely nonsense they aren’t the exact equivalent at all and they weren’t “heavily romanticized” yeah obviously there was pragmatism it was WAR but that doesn’t mean the code wasn’t adhered to we actually have more examples of it being enforced then not
Martial artists in this day and age have an obligation to be good people. So does everyone else, but when one knows how to hurt others, it is their moral imperative to act morally in order to ensure that they don’t hurt others.
@@egm01egm yea dude but fighters know how to do it in very efficient manner, grapplers for example know techniques designed to shatter bones and ligaments, imagine a violent, sadistic person that know his grappling. It's sickening to imagine what he or she could do to a person.
@@kevinlobos5519 we must distinguish between the ability to fight (to hurt an actively resisting opponent with equal weapons probably) and simply the ability to harm others (assault).
@egm01egm yea sure but what I'm saying is that if jimbo the 30 year old guy who maybe does a sport casually assaults a person, and the person fights back, at the very least the other person has 50% chance of succesfully fighting Jimbo off (unless Jimbo's target was easy prey or a vulnerable demographic), now if 30 year old Tod who has been practicing a combat sport since he was 15 years old, maybe competed a handfull of times already, decides to assault a regular every day person, what do you think would happen to them? Anyone can hurt anyone of course, but the ability or skills to do so is very relevant when it comes to it.
Traditionally, warriors and soldiers have been associated with codes of behavior, like chivalry, or bushido. I would suppose that attaching strict codes of ethics to fighters has been a way to control the potential for violence. If you're going to give someone training and ability to do harm, then it's prudent to instill a code of good behavior.
Those codes never existed the way we think they did, for example: our modern idea of bushido comes from the peaceful Edo period of Japan. If you want to know what the true heart of a samurai is, just look at the violence commited during the Sengoku Jidai civil war period
@@danielblank9917 I'm not saying the codes really worked to control samurai, just that the concept that people who are trained to do violence should probably be instilled with moral restraints existed.
@@danielblank9917 many of those codes existed exactly as they’re understood today but context is necessary and your sensitivity doesn’t really change that
There's a point to the whole "martial artist good person" thing, even though westerners typically make these things into more than they are, partially due to the flowery and methaphoric way things were expressed in budo and the asian systems and all that. When people come together to practice a fighting method in a full contact environment, temperance is important, as well as assuming responsibility for others. On a practical level, I think it simply comes down to: don't be a dick, keep your ego in check, don't hurt your training partners, remember that it's about learning, not "winning", keep the dojo in good shape and don't walk around being a sociopath just because you know how to beat up people. And I do think that these things should be a part of martial arts/combat sports training. We're dealing with a type of energy that is completely surpressed in the hypocrisy of everyday society. People often don't know how to handle that. So when it's channeled in an environment like a combat sports gym, there needs to be some sensible framework around it. Otherwise, learning how to fight can mess up some people's compass quite a bit. And I would argue that the UFC with its offensively paraded degeneracy and a track record of athletes and champions with a highly questionable and criminal social conduct is a very good example of that.
There’s a pretty good chance if you think about it that someone who makes a living out of taking a beating and dishing out punishment is not the most well adjusted person. Conventional wisdom says you don’t fuck with a person who’s having a road rage episode you never know what kind of day or week they’re having. Likewise, an MMA fighter might have his life in shambles ie: poor healthcare financially struggling . That’s why it’s conceivable that fighters can be volatile people,.
When I was a teenager I tended to assume not only that martial arts would make good moral character, but also the inverse, that good moral character was necessary to achieve excellence in martial arts. If only. Cheers
Considering how many abusive instructors I have encountered, leading cults and taking advantaged of traumatized people (victims of violence) and teaching them total nonsense, or, at best, outdated tactics (kind of like teaching someone how to use a flintlock for a modern gunfight) I would say that most of them are of poor character. Read the Killing Art which details the fascist history of Tae Kwon Do, for example.
Cobra kai does just that when I was a kid it was Bruce Lee and David carroldine then later van damme etc has time as evolved social media and attitudes have changed towards martial arts.i was a 80s kid for my martial arts so I had old school martial arts but it was very bad for resources ie films,library books, internet was none existent good old green screen.@nokungfuforyou323
@danguillou713 Sometimes you wanna go where everybody knows your name, and they're always glad you came! You wanna be where you can see, Troubles are all the same! You wanna go where everybody knows your name!
I think the presumption is that a martial artist has developed character with time. That to have emotional vulnerabilities can compromise one's physical abilities. For example in The art of war, a proud fighter can be shamed, someone greedy for gain can be baited, and if he's quick to anger he can be led to attack prematurely.
I've been reading some Nietszche, and his will to power concept. The way I see it, it's not that being moral is required to be strong, it's the very opposite: being moral requires you to be strong (i.e., to be able to fight for and defend what you value and consider important). If you can't fight, if you're a weakling, you don't even have a choice in the matter, you won't be able to act morally in a meaningful way.
Nietszche said some pretty hard truths and he was fascinated how the priest class was able to wield more power than the warrior class in Europe If you want to get to the heart of what will to power is read the chapter "What is Noble" in Beyond Good and Evil. He basically says that all living things if they are healthy have a need to expand and get bigger, that is to exploit and that history was one long example of "the strong" exploiting more "moral" peoples.. And he also goes on to say that the "strong" were the ones that determined values (Master Morality.....I am strong therefore what I do is good) and that the weak inverted the values in order to appear strong (ie if I am physically weak, I will make humility a virtue.") Take some time to read Beyond Good and Evil as it will make you look at the world differently even if you dont agree with what he is saying.
Very True. it's just easier to Sell Martial Arts if you Focus on the Self Improvement aspects of it's Practice Rather then the actual Combative Aspects of it. I think we all Hope that Martial Artists learn to be Decent People because their Skillset is Potentially very Dangerous but the Training of Martial Arts doesn't Grantee that someone will be a decent Person
Not really honour was always a staple in all premodern societies just because you disagree with their interpretation of it doesn’t mean it wasn’t there
Very true that being a martial artist does not mean good character. The dojo I used to go to teaches BJJ, and the head trainer and his younger brother have inculcated a belief in the students and junior trainers that since they do bjj, they have superior intellect and character, and have the tenets of Bushido on the dojo walls. Hence, many there have a sense of moral superiority. But on the other hand, they give out belts like candy using an attendance system, and one is also an addict
Probably the misunderstanding comes also from the fact that many martial arts were praticed by groups of people and warriors that actually had a strict moral code. Of course the two things are not inherently combined. A art is an art; not necessarily a way.
Aye, this comes across many cultures. They claim that Bushido teaches to never lie, while in fact it encourages lying. Also some Samurai slaughtered peasants on the street to test a sword (Tsujigiri, yep it has its own word). They claim that knights were good because of chivalry, but omit the fact that chivalry was only a concept that was invented because peasants hated knights for their oppression.
@@Chraan actually you're talking about who has a moral code but doesn't really follow it. The topic is more about whether a combat art comes with a moral code or not. If one decides to teach martial arts as way to develop the youngsters for the better, he must always keep in mind that there is no "good magic" guiding your fist. Of course what you say is another important argument.
@@Chraan what you said about the knights is historically and factually false, not to mention a massive over generalization, (I.etheir chivalric code and being “oppressors”)
@@Chraan not really where did you get that information? Knights were needed to defend monasteries dude they always had a code not all of them followed it but there are bad people everywhere, just like with the police
I practice martial arts and i've witnessed such events that Ramsey mentions: teachers turning into a dark path and ending in abusing that power for nefarious purposes.. As for being good people or not, I think it pretty much boils down to the fact that in both martial arts and military (during training), tends to reinforce the character of that person. If you are already a bad person, it just reinforces what you are: a bad person. It doesn't make you a good person out of thin air.
we defiantly are dealing with the craft of violence. a major part of martial arts, in my point of view, is not only the physical part or movement, but also principles of war and combat psychology
Those have always been present it’s just that the way premodern societies did things don’t always sit well with how sensitive and isolated from history people are now, but it’s important to look at history within its context
Some definitions: Martial: Relating to fighting or war. Art: A skill at doing a specified thing typically one acquired through practice. (this is one of 4 definitions of art) So a martial art is the practice of fighting, whoever says otherwise needs to read a dictionary
What if someone was skilled at things like observing fighting but not actually fighting? Fighting IQ a specific skill related to fighting but that doesn't mean they'll be able to fight. You said it was "related to fighting or war" not that it specifically was that. What does "the practice of fighting" mean? Physical? Mental? Both? What if someone was good physically but not mentally? Are they still martial artists? What if they move perfectly but their fight IQ was shit? And vice versa? Because people like that exist. What if the person had some spiritual conflict? That's related to fighting and war since it is internal. And to get away from that they need the skills to deal with that specific thing. So does that mean they are martial artists? So where does this definition apply to? Physical? Mental? Emotional? Spiritual? Then to what degree does it apply until someone can call themselves a martial artist?
@@ehellsword2 In relation to your first point I must question what you mean by "observing" as in watching? Or as in refereeing or commentating From what I understand the practice of fighting encompasses both physical and mental aspects if someone is bad at one aspect but excels at the other than perhaps they lack training in said aspect What do you mean by "fight IQ" do you mean tactics and strategy? As for spiritual conflict most people contextualise fighting as a conflict between two or more people in the physical world. I think this definition applies to practises that prepare a person for a fight with another person be it in a competitive context or a self defence on. I hope that answers your question.
@@koalaseatleaves1277 There are people who may not be good at fighting themselves but have high fight IQ. They can identify a fighters patterns and styles and know the theoretical counters and their strengths and weaknesses. Conversely there are people who are excellent at fighting (physically-and I mean technically speaking not just because of weight advantage but legit skilled) but can't see patterns and adapt mid fight to their opponent. And yes MOST people contextualize fighting as in the physical world but we're talking martial arts where people also contextualize it spiritually. I myself don't do the "spiritual" aspect of martial arts and don't study that part as much but I would still be fine calling someone a martial artist if they don't practice the physical "fighting" aspect as much. Good fight IQ with little physical ability to do things physically is still a thing. And I immediately thought of Shaolin monks as a counter argument. Yes there are fighting monks and they may practice martial arts. However not all Shaolin monks practice fighting. Some just meditate and do yoga. But they are still considered martial artists since they are practicing the spiritual aspect of it. Not to mention the yoga can technically count as physical even if it isn't fighting. My point is "martial arts" is a very broad term. Anyone can slap a belt on or put on boxing gloves, or wrestle or whatever and call themselves a "martial artist" even if they don't. And some as I mentioned can just do yoga and do spiritual stuff like the Shaolin monk example. Granted I don't know about the spiritual stuff myself. But then: what does being a "martial artist" mean? That's very subjective.
@@Saber23 Yes. The key word is "most". There are still people who may not be that great at the physical aspect themselves but are very smart when it comes to fighting. My point is you don't need to be physically a martial artist. You can still have the knowledge and be a martial artist. On the other hand I wonder if you were like Deotay Wilder-not much knowledge or fight IQ (compared to his competition) but overwhelming power (compared to most). Does he fit into what a martial artist is? He's not very skilled but has killer striking power. He's an example of someone who is good physically but mentally and skill wise? Not really.
In my old judo school, one of the head teachers had a 16yr old girlfriend, she joined in on some of the classes, along with his 17yr old son. He was like 54 or something like that. And parents apparently had no problems leaving their 7-17yr old kids with this man. That shit was so fucked up!😢
“We have learned by sad experience that it is the nature and disposition of almost all men, as soon as they get a little authority, as they suppose, they will immediately begin to exercise unrighteous dominion” -Joseph Smith Jr
@@RamseyDewey Great quote! (Why are truths allways sad?) I guess i've seen it before and will again, it's just the parents that i can't seem to wrap my head around. It's not like it was some kind of brainwashed McDojo cult or anything like that, everything was normal (aside from this man obviously). Yet in this otherwise perfectly normal environment no one reacted on the fact that a man who was responsible for children was not only a pedophile but was actually 100% openly so. He didn't even try to hide it or anything. This man gave absolutely zero fucks and that is not so surprising perhaps, but the fact that not a single person even raised the issue is what made it a truly horrifying eye opener for me. 😬
Thank you! I always catch heat for saying that morality is not a fundamental aspect of martial arts. I feel like people want to overcomplicate the concept, but if we reduce Martial arts to an absolute, it could simply mean the ability to overcome an opponent by strategically using the weapons available to you. And yes, I do realize that this definition includes chess, but since it's meant to simulate war, I'm going to argue that chess is a martial art 😂😂
I agree with all the points. The interesting obervation I made so far is that the people at the top of their arts, tend to be pretty good people. Maybe because there are many filters, for example you (in most cases) need the ability to put your ego out of the way to stay long term. So I things bad/unstable humans are usually filtered out. Of course, there are exceptions. (My experience is mainly Grappling/Boxing/MMA)
Like who? I can think of numerous top fighters that are not role models at all. The few that are, come from a traditional martial arts background which greatly influenced them before switching over to mma or kickboxing. - sadly, these are the exception and not the majority.
I've experpienced a big difference between how fighters act in public vs. at the gym when you talk/train with them. The emphasize on showmanship in Boxing and the UFC rewards almost all fighters that act like dickheads because it (sadly) brings more viewers. Promotions like ONE, PFL, Bellator, KSW tend to not do the American showmanship hype. In general, fighters I've met and trained with were very nice people, even if they behaved bombastically in front of the camera.
@@carl6167ONE have a cool way of promotioning fights IMO. Not mic, not "trash talk", just fighting and giving the Heart in it (like Shavkat rakhmonov)
Why does listening to Ramsey sound like a breath of fresh air? Well... Maybe because it is! Thanks, Ramsey! I always enjoy your perspective on a subject that's so often covered in nonsense!
My brother and a few friends used to go in-between our Florida apartment buildings on the grass patches and play "takedown" -- we would square up and then try to get the other person down. We didn't do any strikes or anything, but we played like that all the time as kids. These weren't shitty friends -- these were high-caliber buds who were more into Tekken than trying out for any sports team. Nerds play wrestling, basically. We didn't need a class to know not to hurt or exploit each other -- it was for fun and to figure out if wrestling moves worked. It sometimes got rough, but it was always live and let-live. We were boys, and it wasn't ever that serious. With that being said, I don't think the martial arts needs to overemphasize moral teaching. BUT....BUT!!!!....BUT.... Martial artists should definitely be prepared to engage in moral conversations, and have their morals questioned. On its surface, why should I associate with someone who makes violence their primary occupation? Either through teaching, trarining, or competition? What is the value of violence? Why is violence a part of YOUR life, and why should we learn to protect ourselves at all? Martial arts would not exist without conflict and physical violence. Violence is awful, and you need to justify why it should be visited, even as a passenger or tourist looking to study it.
Pretty interest question! Honestly, this involves psychology and philosophy (even political) aspects. Rashad Evans stated it pretty good once, also the encourage not only of violence, but also anger and rage. Like someone says: "Anger is a gift"
@@tonymack4120there’s a shocking amount of people who are willing to lay out less experienced people in sparring to make themselves feel good. Riding high off the pain of an uneven opponent isn’t something a good person does when everyone is trying to have fun and learn at the end of the day
With great power comes great responsibility ~spider man As a martial arts instructor You have 2 choices 1. To give people tools HOW to fight with no context WHEN ( in terms of morality) to fight. 2. Teach when and how to fight. Most karate dojos have a creed sometimes posted on the wall, something along the lines The techniques learned are not meant for evil or bad purposes: Bullying, crime, braging or hate Only for good: denfense of friends, family and self. Striving to be become a good person of good moral character creeds are also part of jodo Kano himself said that the purpose of Judo is to strengthen body by practicing attack and defense, to complete the personality by training the mind, and finally to devote oneself to society. Bjj, kickboxing, wrestling tend to be secular. And i find way more people with out of control egos. John Danaher: “I Give Almost Zero Moral Advice To My Athletes” Gordon Ryan is a terrible rolemode for kids, openly using steroids, slapping opponents in the face for no reason Then you have guys like gsp who is a very moral person and everyone likes, im sure learn some of this from karate at a young age.
It’s good to teach the responsibility of the fighting arts and how badly it can damage your opponent to students (especially young ones) so they don’t use them on any and every occasion and situation, or use the same amount of aggression or force with every technique. Not so much as a moral code but rather learning when it’s an appropriate time to fight, or maybe I’m confusing it and responsibility of fighting techniques is still a moral code. Please correct me if I’m wrong, I’m not a coach or a teacher; I’m just someone who thinks that old Spiderman code, “with great power comes great responsibility”
It would be more responsible to teach students that if they try to use their martial arts outside of the gym, they’ll get their butts kicked badly because they don’t know how to fight yet.
@RamseyDewey I think the true lesson here and in life is, (though I Don't condone Stealing) if you MUST Steal, NEVER-EVER-EVER try to return the item if it is from a store, no matter how much you regret it! You will just be punished! Possibly with imprisonment! The most valuable "VERY SPECIAL EPISODE" Advice we ever received from Full House! This "Store Policy" should be abolished! It only encourages people to never return stuff. If you could return things without consequence more people would give items back when their conscience kicks in!
"True martial artist is a good person" concept is quite bizarre actually considering most people who believe this also idolizes the murder hobo aka Musashi Miyamoto, like the dude literally killed a child
Exactly! If a man today did what Musashi did, he would be condemned as a serial killer and mass murderer, not to mention an ignoble cheater. But he wrote a book that got passed around a lot, so… martial arts yay!
those are broad strokes. the moral of the book was about his folly and coming to a realization within a dark age having seen the light and producing a definitive work. the man had to literally run away into a cave to escape the bullshido. his work saved more lives than he ever fell by the blade. yeah though, he was a serial killer in as much as any other sanctioned sword carrying psychopath in the then government. he pretty much expounded upon the very premise of this video in his works.
Sifu Randy assured me that the strength of my character would allow me to shoot fireballs from my finger tips. Although, after one late payment, I'm starting to get suspicious that his assessment of my character is limited to whether or not my twice annual checks to him clear. So, I'm thinking that I can build character faster if I pay for extra lessons. Thanks for the advice, Ramsey!
Nice! This kinda gives me nietzschian Vibes, like 'the will to power' and the fact that a strong person isn't necessarily a good person. I see a lot of people mixing this together with no actual foundation for it. Almost like coping. And now that I think about it, i did it myself many years ago, when I started my martial arts journey. I trained in a gym with really shady people. Hooligans and that sort of stuff. And I was forced to the conclusion that even though these guys weren't really nice, they knew how to fight and beat me up regularly in the gym. There fore I couldn't no longer trust the 'cope' that strong fighters are good people and I trained even harder. Just like you once said: If you wanna beat the bigger stronger guy, become the bigger, stronger guy. An advice I still hold on today. Thank you very much of this lesson and have a good one!
Ramsey brings his view again out without questioning, as he always does. However, there is another way to look at it. Ramsey makes point that the original real meaning of martial artist is a fighter. That is not completely accurate, already in the earliest depictions we have differences between a good fighter and a good master of the combat arts. Anyway, that doesn't really matter, because words change their meaning through time and even the English words Ramsey uses aren't that old. Term really came to "mainstream" in the last century, and since there has been 3 different meanings for it, depending who you ask: 1) Good fighter as Ramsey defines 2) One who has great athletic martial artsy skills and can do fancy Tai Chi or jumping spin kicks, but don't necessarily know how to actually fight 3) Bushido chivalry knight, master of meditation, wise man confident enough in his skills not needing to use violence to boost his own ego, but capable of using them to protect others. And the 3rd has little to do with Christianity, the idea is much older and world wide. Whether Ramsey agrees on the latter two points doesn't matter, for there are lot's of people who do, you can be a "true martial artist" only if you encompass all three. True in the sense that every one agrees you are one. And that's what a "true martial artist" means.
Speaking of “martial arts“ entering the English language, through medieval fencing… Apparently the medieval and Renaissance Masters did devote some of their time to instructing their students in the ethics and morality of fighting - when and why to fight, when not to, and so on. Probably Cuz back then there was an epidemic of people thinking that being trained in a fighting art was an excuse to go around and throw their weight around with it.
From what I can tell, there are 3 main archetypes which provide an edge in combat. 1: intelligent psychopath, 2: natural athlete, and 3: intelligent empath.
Hey coach, I'm curious as to why Jack Dempsey said in his book to throw hooks palm down, where we see a lot of fighters with exceptional left hooks do palm in (such as Joe Frazier, Mike Tyson, Alex Pereira). Is it for hitting 2 knuckle rather than 3 knuckle? Is it something to do with the power line? Or is it simply a matter of comfort?
So you can clear the shoulder and target the chin of an opponent with his guard up. Start watching around the 5:30 mark th-cam.com/video/koQh_j3fq4s/w-d-xo.htmlsi=klz8UsHXe5yr7xbZ
Hey ramsey, good points you made there, but I wished you addresses an instructor's responsibility a little more. Sure at first the trainer/coach is supposed to teach me how to fight, but don't you think the instructor should also make the students aware of some boundaries? I had a trainer once who explicitly stated that if any of his students would engage in any kind of physical assault and abuse his martial arts skills, he would ban them from the gym. I think this makes a lot of sense. I would not want to have a guy like sensei kreese from karate kid as my coach. But neither Mr myagi who teaches good values but bad martial arts.
two things I'd like to say about this subject. A fighter doesn't have to be a good person but nor does he or she have to be a bad person like some people assume. Fighting gyms should also take some responsibility and teach their students some discipline so they don't go arround beating up random people recklessly.
True for some reason people seem to think fighters don’t have free will, they can choose to be both good and bad people and virtuous people pick the former
You talk non-sense. Mike Tyson mugged people in the streets before he was a boxer. As a matter of fact, being a mugger is his qualification to be a boxer.
@@quach8quach907 are you fucking stupid? 🤣 there were tons of crooks who trie dot get into boxing but failed his qualification was meeting Cus and learning discipline
I think one of the sources of this misconception is the vast catalog of folk tales that talk about gentle warriors, fighter monks, etc. But they are just tales. It also goes along with the typical idea of old, skinny "grandmasters" who look unassuming but can kick ass. You'd find excellent fighters with a strong moral code, as well as unassuming grandmasters that can school anyone, but they are as rare as each other.
This has always been an interesting debate and a realization I had when I switched from traditional to modern martial arts. I’ve never been under the impression that every martial artist is a good person. I watched too many kung fu movies growing up for me to not understand that. But rather, good martial artists SHOULD ALSO be good people. Everyone should strive to be a “good person” in the colloquial sense but if you have skills that make you more dangerous as a person, you should also have the morality to balance it out. It’s why we like seeing displays of sportsmanship even in the most brutal sports in the world. We like the idea that we can control that violence and not lose our humanity. Thank you for the video Ramsey, insightful as always.
An additional point: I like to think of martial arts as “the force” from star wars (not in a woowoo mystical way). Mostly in the sense that in the star wars universe, there’s many people that are “skilled with the force” but they all fall on either the light side of the dark side or somewhere in between. You would think having some sort of mystical power would make everyone like Yoda but quite the opposite is seen. Even the jedi did some pretty horrible things.
@@blackomega4061I think that martial arts make you a stronger person, but not necessarily a decent person. Courage and discipline are necessary virtues, but you should also seek to be a good person 😊
One of the karate clubs I went to in Glasgow Scotland went for a drink after training he still had his gym bag someone walked up to him and asked what would you do if I was going to attack you he didn't say anything he just stuck a glass in his face and in the boxing club I went to a young boxer blinded someone in a street fight he got a few months in prison he didn't even start the fight
CS Lewis wrote a short text called "The necessary of chvalry". This describes why a good man both needs to be both a bone hard fighter and a soft gentle father, depending on the context. While at the same time understanding that this is really hard to do, but we should strive for it anyway. And martial arts can play a important role in this travel through life.
Ares was the greek god of war (or at least one of them). Mars was his roman version. The romans did have their own versions of the olympic gods. Mars is technically Ares.
Says what? This is a known thing for anyone with more then 3 braincells, just knowing how to fight doesn’t make you a good person, you need to choose to be one
I think this is an interesting topic. I haven't been in a fight in 30 years and probably wont be ever again. But i study martial arts for the focus, control, mindfulness and health benefits i think they offer. Plus, i have fun! Curious about your thoughts on Shi Heng Yi and his work?
Man, just remember Spidermans quote 'With great power comes greater responsibilities'. It is not enough to be a good technician and no one should strive for that.
I do think that there is value in using things like martial arts or sports or a great many other things as vehicles for communicating values, but it is always important to recognize that those are decisions made, and are not inherent. There is a difference between them, even when we choose to pair them. Your points are excellent.
That’s not true. You’re definitely cultivating courage in a fight, and it’s the most important one tbh. It’s just being a courageous person doesn’t mean you’re a good person
There is no virtue, no courage, without the Good. I concede it takes a measure of bravery to engage in battle, but a true and deeper courage would be to voluntarily (NOT passively) avoid conflict altogether. Fighting (or any game, really) means seeking advantage at the expense of another (“bad intentions”). Now that’s perfectly natural-per Heraclitus, conflict makes the world go round-but let’s not confuse it with virtue.
This might be a consequence of the modern changes to martial arts that do involve teaching some "good character", but I've never met a student of martial arts that I wasn't willing to be friends with. Every martial artist I've met demonstrates more respect than most of society. Additionally, there is a side effect of learning how to fight that "accidentally" builds character. That side effect is learning when to fight. Every martial artist I've met has had, somewhere in their training, something like the phrase "Don't fight! Really, do not fight! But if you must fight, this is how you fight well."
interesting subject. perhaps I just had really good instructors but always kind of figured the two went hand in hand , because self confidence in your ability to protect yourself helps create an inner peace and inner harmony. Kind of the warrior within the garden rather than the gardener in the war. I was only ever taught that beating someone for the pleasure of beating someone was bad,,, but then that was my father speaking not my instructors . For more and more gyms it's becoming a form of cardio not a form of combat, which is fine as long as the students don't think it's going to make them the next GSP. Great vid keep them coming.
Yeah, exactly. It's a skill. Anyone who's a master at any skill...martial arts, painting, computer programming, carpentry...is just really good at that skill. Not necessarily a virtuous or ideal person in any way other than that one skill and anything absolutely required to gain that skill. It's just silly to present this as anything else. I'm surprised to hear that Jeff Speakman would say something so absurd.
I agree with you. It is 100% true. I feel it’s case by case. I went through a very rough 15 year relationship that started breaking my soul a bit. I started to develop some narcissistic behavior. I went back to training MMA/Judo. As a result of training, I started getting my peace of mind back and morals, emotions came back, I wasn’t a hallow shell after 6 months of training jiu-jitsu mainly. But I guess I’m just not wired right lol. In shorter words the training made me better and healed the trauma. But your absolutely right a fighter doesn’t have to be a good person. I actually can admit I was way more disciplined with some anger. Good honest stuff in this video. Thank You Ramsey ✌🏼👍🏼🤟🏼
I personally think the "virtue" aspect is pretty important when talking about martial arts for self defense is we are talking about it in a wholistic way. While its important to not be delusional by training solely ineffective techniques, learning to respect other people and tamping down ones ego can go a long way in avoiding a fight. You can never lose a fight that you don't have to get into in the first place. I've been to too many boxing/mma gyms where lots of students are just there there to hurt their training partners and feel tough. I know that's not the case everywhere, but it is a problem much like how some gyms being too unrealistic is a problem.
I saw a video of sean strickland throwing a black belt on the trash, and a bunch of BJJ guys were coping saying the UFC Champion who dedicated his life to it wasnt a true martial artists
There’s so much belt worship and belt idolatry in modern martial arts. One of my greatest coaches ever once threw out his entire stack of title belts, championship trophies, and medals (quite a few of them) he just dumped them on the curb where the trash collector would pick them up. He didn’t even say a word about why he did it. But I knew. He didn’t become a martial artist to collect trophies.
@@GaryTongue-zn5di he either doesnt feel like proving himself to other people or he knows he achieved great things and doesnt need material items to prove that
A little info for you, Jeff Speakman is a martial artist who specializes in American Kenpo Karate, a system developed by Ed Parker. Jeff learned American Kenpo Karate from Ed Parker. The two of them worked together on the movie The Perfect Weapon (1991) of which Jeff is the main protagonist. Jeff has been interviewed a few time, you can find the interviews on TH-cam.
I agree. But going to a church or whatever is just as bad if not worse. In the church, being cultish is the express goal. Although, you could argue that having it out in the open is better so people know what they're getting into.
Let me show you how great the Karate Kid movies are. The Karate Kid III. I saw it in a second run movie theater for $1. "Root strong, tree strong Daniel-san." I'm Vietnamese. 60% of Vietnamese is Chinese, like 60% of English is Latin and French. I'm learning Vietnamese to get back to the roots of Chinese. I just moved into a predominantly Korean neighborhood. Korean language, same thing 60% Chinese. They divorced themselves of Chinese by inventing their own alphabet and trying to be different. I would encourage them to learn Chinese characters, Hanja, too. I would say to them: "Root strong, tree strong. The Karate Kid III." That is how great Karate-do can be as it is sold as a religion.
Martial Arts seems like a highly personal road. Where some Martial Artists focus on the betterment of their Soul. When you truly connect your Mind/Body/Soul, you don't wanna fight people. Some study to strictly fight people. The internal artist fights their demons, external fights people. Just do you and be happy about it 🙏🏼
Self defense is really only the goal or desired result in any physical confrontation, however achieved, and not the means of attaining it. You can successfully defend yourself in any number of ways, fighting just being one of them.
The definition is important. But the difference is also important. A lot of people aren't meant to be fighter. One can excel in the art and never see combat. Depends on a persons values and goals. A school dedicated to either faction is totally fine. But, the expectation set by the instructor should be well defined for the student to understand what and why they are learning. You can be a good person either way. It all boils down to how the student is taught and the expectations they have, and what the instructors set for them.
Plenty of violent thugs in martial arts history. The "knights" and samurai were simply well organized gangs that extorted money from the populace using religion, etc, as a justification. Divine rights and so on. They used the excuse of "maintaining order" and so on to make the real workers pay for their lifestyle and used violence to steal from them. Hence great improvements in ways to use violence. There were some folkstyle things like wrestling and so on that the peasants were allowed to do, but many were not allowed to carry swords and the idea of a person working with their hands using them for sport fighting was pretty silly. Kano liked Jiu Jitsu but he wanted to banish the thugs, hence he got rid of prize fighting, which the Brazilians decided to embrace. If you want to look up the criminal history of the Gracies, it's all their for you to see.
I don't know why you think a person can't be both a Fighter and a Good person at the same time. I've never committed a crime other than minor traffic violations, and I'm one of the best fighters I know of.
Jeff Speakman,you mean the actual Kenpo Master himself and graduate student of Ed Parker and Ed Parker Jr.'s Kenpo Karate Association!? WOW,Now Thats Making Real Connections There-"Im Extremely Impressed!"😮-😊*
I get mocked by neckbeards regularly for stating this. "You shouldn't have a black belt if you're a jerk." Why? That BJJ black belt can whoop my arse, regardless of how nice they are. RD has been on a roll lately, bringing the controversy lol.
@@Shrapnel82 It was very wittingly, lol. The answer is "it doesn't matter." If you say someone isn't a black belt because they're not nice doesn't take their ability away
In Okinawa, Karate teachers would say No to a potential student many times, to test his determination and ego. Then, after accepting to teach him, they would be rude during training, to further test his ego. Making someone practice the same kata for 6-12 months may have been not just a way to learn the basics, but also a test. PS: those masters had day jobs, weren't getting paid to teach Karate, so they could be very picky when choosing students.
Not a movie. Not a movie script, but real life. A contender on The Ultimate Fighter show said: "Punching somebody's face is easier than punching the clock (going to work a regular job)." Fighting is just a metaphor for the real fight which is real life. That's something a master in the Shaolin Temple would say to a "grasshopper". Martial arts very Kung Fu-ey, by its nature.
Yyes, but... it's not fighting techniques it's martial arts. Even when fighting and martial can be synonyms, martial has a focus in war. it's a wider concept. The word arts implies more than just technique. So we add *martial + arts* and we obtain some basis. MMA tournaments are not an style, it's just tournaments where different styles can be matched at. ex. g. UFC MMA don't work all the ranges, all the strategies, all the tactics and of course don't cover all the martial (war) techniques that a martial lover could havr learned. Even wide tournaments like m-1 couldn't cover everything. It's just so arrogant like most of us st 80's and 90's used to visualize all the different styles standing up, we couldn't conceive grappling as martial art style (exept the few ones which already knew grappling styles). 2020's and now we should know there's still a lot more from martial arts to enjoy/ learn/ discover/compare. Group strategies, team conformation, attack at night, throwing weapons, open order commands, sabotage, amphibian skills, mountain skills, there's a lot that we still can't watch for the sake of art. Here enters moral codes, discipline, etc, things that could make stronger, weaker, efficient an army, that's well known, and there's an art on inspiring soldiers, and there's strategy on making them more collaborative values, or competitive ones, for example. Most of practicioners are technicians (soldiers, instructors) who prepare for the real battles, and there are really few families and individuals (including soldiers) that keep and develop their arts (i mean their martial arts) , when there are no other events or guys to compete against.
I don't know coach. I think it's more nuanced than that. I've had martial arts teachers who were absolutely sports experts and good teachers of technique, but terrible people. Their gyms inevitably became horrible places because there was no filter for character in the athletics. In some cases, it even reached criminal levels. On the other hand, I had other coaches just as skilled as the ones above, but they illegitimately tried to impose a very non-universalizable morality standard on me based on their politics, religion, or other biases... and it was just as shitty. Couldn't leave soon enough. Then on yet another hand, I had other teachers who absolutely held a standard of character; wherein you couldn't be an observably shitty person and train at their gym, but didn't have the heavy non-universals (politics etc); just uncontroversial "good person" and "do no harm / take no shit" virtue ethics. Shitty-person students would be invited to find another gym no matter how talented they were, at these gyms. Those environments had the best mix of athletic talent and good people after it all came out of the wash; best family gyms too. Based on these experiences, I consider that kind of character filtering (and thus: defacto character development, as good people rub off on one another) a minimum of responsibility when you are literally teaching students how to be able to murder or maim people.
It's a value judgement. It's a good sword, it's a good technique, it's good to defend yourself. To be devoted is good, discipline is good. It's good to use safe and mindful security. It's good to see how competitive circuits work. The way you teach young people striking arts seems good. Virtue practiced successfully for generations becomes a value, martial prowess is bad for the enemy. 🙂↕️
Under the weather Ramsey sounds like a late night smooth Jazz radio host I would listen to all night long
Agreed
fact
Spot on spot on
Far From Weak
That "get your gi on its cuddle time" instantly took me back to late night drives lmao
I'm actually reading Water Margin at the moment, which is one of the classic Chinese novels about martial arts (among other things). And the heroes of that book are not exactly role models. They drink, steal, and fight. They are rebels and gangsters.
As far as I know, in historical China, martial artists were mostly considered troublemakers and the opposite of virtuous. The warrior monk ideal might be a pretty recent myth.
Yep. There were a lot of reasons the CCP initially tried to stamp out traditional martial arts practices during the cultural revolution. One of them was to exterminate gangs. Exclusive loyalty to a martial arts instructor, or worse, a martial arts gang, instead of loyalty to the party, is in direct violation of Chinese communist doctrine. There’s a beautiful public park here in Shanghai I visit often that used to be an estate owned by such a gang. It was a very different world prior to the 1950’s.
It varies. The majority of men and women who practiced martial arts in ancient china were nobles, so they would have been individuals of considerable wealth and social status, and Confucian doctrine during the time emphasized living morally to the nobility. As for the warrior monk, it isn’t a myth either, there were warriors throughout history who were monks but also martial skilled(Knights Templar and the monks of the shaolin for instance), who were noted for their nobility(in a morals sense not a social status sense).
Beautifully explained @@RamseyDewey . I'm currently reading about the cultural revolution and things make a whole lot more sense now so far as the old and new
They are all recent myths.
@@michaelterrell5061 we’re not even talking about ancient China. The cultural revolution started in 1966.
This is why building virtue in martial arts like Judo and Karate were revolutionary selling points at the start of last century.
yes. when the martial training was adapted to a modern context in which people don't often beat/slash/shoot each other to the death, the actual techniques were modified to be used in controlled environments (friendly sparring, competitions, regulated fights etc) and ethics of mutual respect and character development were, at least in some arts, introduced to help tone down their violent origins. i personally enjoy it. the teaching of the "real stuff" would be impossible (and maybe ill-advised) in current times, beyond actual police or military training, without the philosophical aspects and technical modifications. also, the arts are not restricted to warrior castes anymore, so everybody wins
@@rlsxs4ever yeah it’s a shame the modern world is a hellhole, look at all the McDojo’s
@@rlsxs4ever well there was always mutual respect even in times of war, countless examples can be found throughout history but I get what you mean
I agree it's important to distinguish between martial skills and ethos, but I can see why the two are so often intertwined. Getting good at violence comes with responsibility. Many of those old european fencing treatises do mention the kind of martial ethos and character that should accompany their art.
Yes, as a practical matter, fighting techniques have no particular morality that can be attached to them, yet almost all instruction IN fighting is done in some kind of ethical environment/context (dojo/gym/bootcamp). Teaching and learning how to fight is usually seen as requiring some kind of moral/ethical obligation on the part of those involved, and this is something that is seen across history and cultures.
just like a true soldier is a terrifyingly effective killers and a true officer is someone who deals a permanent blow to crime, even if it's city hall. not people to be trifled with or taken lightly. definitely not people you sit down and have a beer with
@Malt454
"Treu" Martial Arts isn't about Fighting, idiot! It is about NOT Fighting!
@@cagneybillingsley2165 why not? I’m sure they’ve got some stories to tell
@@Malt454 true but there have always been ethics in war and fighting, even from people who are seen as “savage” like the Mongols etc
I think martial arts can help make people better people by building confidence. I think a lot of bad stuff in this world is caused by fear and insecurity. With more confidence you can respond to bad situations in a more calm and compassionate manner.
I think that's not "confidence", but simply having fewer problems yourself. That can make you less inward and more open and therefore more helpful. Prior to learning how to fight it's perfectly reasonable not to have "confidence". Just like it's reasonable and good not to be confident in the mountains prior to hiking and climbing experience.
@@MrCmon113, context is key. Base confidence is really good to have. To use your analogy, a novice at hiking can still have base confidence that they’ll become good at it with experience.
@Kerygmachela
Wrong, dumbass. There is no direct correlation between Confidence and being a good person. In fact, most Confident people aren't! This is why Women always end up with assholes or the "bad boy". It's easy to be confident if you have no morals. You know who was the most Confident of Men?. Adolph Hitler!
“... the more skill a man hath of his weapon the more gentle and curteous should he shewe himselfe ...” - Vincentio Saviolo 1595
"My Spelling and Grammar was not this terrible, Idiot!"
-Vincentio Saviolo (probably)
@@GaryTongue-zn5di English might not be his first language, cut him some slack
@@GaryTongue-zn5dii sincerly doubt vincentio saviolo had good modern english spelling
(and the frase is in italian grammar, if you translate word for word it makes perfect sense)
I was just talking few days ago with some friends about how the "chivalry code" popularized in medieval europe was the EXACT equivalent of the Bushido that allegedly should have been the guide line of samurai.
In the sense that both were heavily romanticized and idealized versions of far more pragmatic (and often less flattering) truths about their typical behavior.
@@TucoBenedicto then what you were talking about was completely nonsense they aren’t the exact equivalent at all and they weren’t “heavily romanticized” yeah obviously there was pragmatism it was WAR but that doesn’t mean the code wasn’t adhered to we actually have more examples of it being enforced then not
I practice shooting for 15 years. IPSC, IDSC and Tactical. When I tell people I am a Martial Artist people get mad at me.
Do you wear a gi while shooting?
@@MrCmon113 I wear clothing adequate to the setting and enviroment.
Same would happen if somebody practiced archery or crossbowmanship, people think of melee combat only when considering martial arts.
that sounde like a VERY effective martial artist to me...
Same with boxers
Martial artists in this day and age have an obligation to be good people. So does everyone else, but when one knows how to hurt others, it is their moral imperative to act morally in order to ensure that they don’t hurt others.
Everybody knows how to hurt others and can, no exceptions
@@egm01egm yea dude but fighters know how to do it in very efficient manner, grapplers for example know techniques designed to shatter bones and ligaments, imagine a violent, sadistic person that know his grappling. It's sickening to imagine what he or she could do to a person.
@@kevinlobos5519 we must distinguish between the ability to fight (to hurt an actively resisting opponent with equal weapons probably) and simply the ability to harm others (assault).
@egm01egm yea sure but what I'm saying is that if jimbo the 30 year old guy who maybe does a sport casually assaults a person, and the person fights back, at the very least the other person has 50% chance of succesfully fighting Jimbo off (unless Jimbo's target was easy prey or a vulnerable demographic), now if 30 year old Tod who has been practicing a combat sport since he was 15 years old, maybe competed a handfull of times already, decides to assault a regular every day person, what do you think would happen to them? Anyone can hurt anyone of course, but the ability or skills to do so is very relevant when it comes to it.
Agree. Also, I would add, be a superhero, and use your skills to defend yourself, your family and people under unjustified violent aggression.
Traditionally, warriors and soldiers have been associated with codes of behavior, like chivalry, or bushido. I would suppose that attaching strict codes of ethics to fighters has been a way to control the potential for violence. If you're going to give someone training and ability to do harm, then it's prudent to instill a code of good behavior.
Those codes never existed the way we think they did, for example: our modern idea of bushido comes from the peaceful Edo period of Japan. If you want to know what the true heart of a samurai is, just look at the violence commited during the Sengoku Jidai civil war period
@@danielblank9917 I'm not saying the codes really worked to control samurai, just that the concept that people who are trained to do violence should probably be instilled with moral restraints existed.
@@danielblank9917 many of those codes existed exactly as they’re understood today but context is necessary and your sensitivity doesn’t really change that
There's a point to the whole "martial artist good person" thing, even though westerners typically make these things into more than they are, partially due to the flowery and methaphoric way things were expressed in budo and the asian systems and all that. When people come together to practice a fighting method in a full contact environment, temperance is important, as well as assuming responsibility for others. On a practical level, I think it simply comes down to: don't be a dick, keep your ego in check, don't hurt your training partners, remember that it's about learning, not "winning", keep the dojo in good shape and don't walk around being a sociopath just because you know how to beat up people. And I do think that these things should be a part of martial arts/combat sports training. We're dealing with a type of energy that is completely surpressed in the hypocrisy of everyday society. People often don't know how to handle that. So when it's channeled in an environment like a combat sports gym, there needs to be some sensible framework around it. Otherwise, learning how to fight can mess up some people's compass quite a bit. And I would argue that the UFC with its offensively paraded degeneracy and a track record of athletes and champions with a highly questionable and criminal social conduct is a very good example of that.
There’s a pretty good chance if you think about it that someone who makes a living out of taking a beating and dishing out punishment is not the most well adjusted person. Conventional wisdom says you don’t fuck with a person who’s having a road rage episode you never know what kind of day or week they’re having. Likewise, an MMA fighter might have his life in shambles ie: poor healthcare financially struggling . That’s why it’s conceivable that fighters can be volatile people,.
When I was a teenager I tended to assume not only that martial arts would make good moral character, but also the inverse, that good moral character was necessary to achieve excellence in martial arts.
If only.
Cheers
Considering how many abusive instructors I have encountered, leading cults and taking advantaged of traumatized people (victims of violence) and teaching them total nonsense, or, at best, outdated tactics (kind of like teaching someone how to use a flintlock for a modern gunfight) I would say that most of them are of poor character. Read the Killing Art which details the fascist history of Tae Kwon Do, for example.
Indeed. Conflating expertise with good character is an extremely common mistake.
Cobra kai does just that when I was a kid it was Bruce Lee and David carroldine then later van damme etc has time as evolved social media and attitudes have changed towards martial arts.i was a 80s kid for my martial arts so I had old school martial arts but it was very bad for resources ie films,library books, internet was none existent good old green screen.@nokungfuforyou323
@danguillou713
Sometimes you wanna go where everybody knows your name, and they're always glad you came! You wanna be where you can see, Troubles are all the same! You wanna go where everybody knows your name!
@@nokungfuforyou323 this just comes from scam artists, there are doctors that do it as well you can’t paint everyone with the same brush
I think the presumption is that a martial artist has developed character with time. That to have emotional vulnerabilities can compromise one's physical abilities. For example in The art of war, a proud fighter can be shamed, someone greedy for gain can be baited, and if he's quick to anger he can be led to attack prematurely.
This is all Western dog shit, honour is what the society makes it if honour is offing someone for your Dimeo then so be it
I've been reading some Nietszche, and his will to power concept. The way I see it, it's not that being moral is required to be strong, it's the very opposite: being moral requires you to be strong (i.e., to be able to fight for and defend what you value and consider important). If you can't fight, if you're a weakling, you don't even have a choice in the matter, you won't be able to act morally in a meaningful way.
Was Nietsche strong?
@@nokungfuforyou323 Nietzsche was sickly, but he hated his own weakness, and his philosophy shows
Didn't Nietszche reject moralities that arose both from domination and from weakness?
Nietszche said some pretty hard truths and he was fascinated how the priest class was able to wield more power than the warrior class in Europe If you want to get to the heart of what will to power is read the chapter "What is Noble" in Beyond Good and Evil. He basically says that all living things if they are healthy have a need to expand and get bigger, that is to exploit and that history was one long example of "the strong" exploiting more "moral" peoples.. And he also goes on to say that the "strong" were the ones that determined values (Master Morality.....I am strong therefore what I do is good) and that the weak inverted the values in order to appear strong (ie if I am physically weak, I will make humility a virtue.") Take some time to read Beyond Good and Evil as it will make you look at the world differently even if you dont agree with what he is saying.
@@jorgejoestar6469 he lost his mind because he was an atheistic nutcase
Very True. it's just easier to Sell Martial Arts if you Focus on the Self Improvement aspects of it's Practice Rather then the actual Combative Aspects of it.
I think we all Hope that Martial Artists learn to be Decent People because their Skillset is Potentially very Dangerous but the Training of Martial Arts doesn't Grantee that someone will be a decent Person
Strength is the virtue preceding kindness
True but it doesn’t inherently lead to virtue or kindness
The idea of martial arts being associated with virtue is a recent addition. However, imo, it's a good addition.
Not really honour was always a staple in all premodern societies just because you disagree with their interpretation of it doesn’t mean it wasn’t there
Very true that being a martial artist does not mean good character. The dojo I used to go to teaches BJJ, and the head trainer and his younger brother have inculcated a belief in the students and junior trainers that since they do bjj, they have superior intellect and character, and have the tenets of Bushido on the dojo walls. Hence, many there have a sense of moral superiority. But on the other hand, they give out belts like candy using an attendance system, and one is also an addict
I read it as "the tenets of bullshido" lol
@@davidp.7620
So did I, lol.
I also thought I saw "bullshido" and "BBJ" as well 😂
Guys, not gonna lie, while typing this message, i actually typed Bullshido, then later edited the message to correct it
Probably the misunderstanding comes also from the fact that many martial arts were praticed by groups of people and warriors that actually had a strict moral code.
Of course the two things are not inherently combined. A art is an art; not necessarily a way.
Yeah, everyone wants to LARP as a samurai until it’s time to pay tribute to the Shogun.
Aye, this comes across many cultures. They claim that Bushido teaches to never lie, while in fact it encourages lying. Also some Samurai slaughtered peasants on the street to test a sword (Tsujigiri, yep it has its own word). They claim that knights were good because of chivalry, but omit the fact that chivalry was only a concept that was invented because peasants hated knights for their oppression.
@@Chraan actually you're talking about who has a moral code but doesn't really follow it.
The topic is more about whether a combat art comes with a moral code or not.
If one decides to teach martial arts as way to develop the youngsters for the better, he must always keep in mind that there is no "good magic" guiding your fist.
Of course what you say is another important argument.
@@Chraan what you said about the knights is historically and factually false, not to mention a massive over generalization, (I.etheir chivalric code and being “oppressors”)
@@Chraan not really where did you get that information? Knights were needed to defend monasteries dude they always had a code not all of them followed it but there are bad people everywhere, just like with the police
I practice martial arts and i've witnessed such events that Ramsey mentions: teachers turning into a dark path and ending in abusing that power for nefarious purposes..
As for being good people or not, I think it pretty much boils down to the fact that in both martial arts and military (during training), tends to reinforce the character of that person. If you are already a bad person, it just reinforces what you are: a bad person. It doesn't make you a good person out of thin air.
True martial arts can build your character but you need to choose whether or not to be a good person
we defiantly are dealing with the craft of violence. a major part of martial arts, in my point of view, is not only the physical part or movement, but also principles of war and combat psychology
Those have always been present it’s just that the way premodern societies did things don’t always sit well with how sensitive and isolated from history people are now, but it’s important to look at history within its context
I tell all my friends Martial Arts/Fighting is a dark sport
I may have my moments but I'm also kind at all times.
It's really not that deep lol you're most likely training at some random gym somewhere in America for 80 bucks a month. It's a hobby.
@@Kamingo170 I never said anything was deep. Also, I've competed many times.
@@MentalMachine Competed with referess and and agreement on rules. It's a sport it's not some dark fight club that you're apart of my guy.
Some definitions:
Martial: Relating to fighting or war.
Art: A skill at doing a specified thing typically one acquired through practice. (this is one of 4 definitions of art)
So a martial art is the practice of fighting, whoever says otherwise needs to read a dictionary
What if someone was skilled at things like observing fighting but not actually fighting? Fighting IQ a specific skill related to fighting but that doesn't mean they'll be able to fight. You said it was "related to fighting or war" not that it specifically was that.
What does "the practice of fighting" mean? Physical? Mental? Both? What if someone was good physically but not mentally? Are they still martial artists?
What if they move perfectly but their fight IQ was shit? And vice versa? Because people like that exist.
What if the person had some spiritual conflict? That's related to fighting and war since it is internal. And to get away from that they need the skills to deal with that specific thing. So does that mean they are martial artists?
So where does this definition apply to? Physical? Mental? Emotional? Spiritual? Then to what degree does it apply until someone can call themselves a martial artist?
@@ehellsword2 In relation to your first point I must question what you mean by "observing" as in watching? Or as in refereeing or commentating
From what I understand the practice of fighting encompasses both physical and mental aspects if someone is bad at one aspect but excels at the other than perhaps they lack training in said aspect
What do you mean by "fight IQ" do you mean tactics and strategy?
As for spiritual conflict most people contextualise fighting as a conflict between two or more people in the physical world.
I think this definition applies to practises that prepare a person for a fight with another person be it in a competitive context or a self defence on.
I hope that answers your question.
@@koalaseatleaves1277 There are people who may not be good at fighting themselves but have high fight IQ. They can identify a fighters patterns and styles and know the theoretical counters and their strengths and weaknesses. Conversely there are people who are excellent at fighting (physically-and I mean technically speaking not just because of weight advantage but legit skilled) but can't see patterns and adapt mid fight to their opponent.
And yes MOST people contextualize fighting as in the physical world but we're talking martial arts where people also contextualize it spiritually. I myself don't do the "spiritual" aspect of martial arts and don't study that part as much but I would still be fine calling someone a martial artist if they don't practice the physical "fighting" aspect as much. Good fight IQ with little physical ability to do things physically is still a thing.
And I immediately thought of Shaolin monks as a counter argument. Yes there are fighting monks and they may practice martial arts. However not all Shaolin monks practice fighting. Some just meditate and do yoga. But they are still considered martial artists since they are practicing the spiritual aspect of it. Not to mention the yoga can technically count as physical even if it isn't fighting.
My point is "martial arts" is a very broad term. Anyone can slap a belt on or put on boxing gloves, or wrestle or whatever and call themselves a "martial artist" even if they don't. And some as I mentioned can just do yoga and do spiritual stuff like the Shaolin monk example. Granted I don't know about the spiritual stuff myself. But then: what does being a "martial artist" mean? That's very subjective.
@@ehellsword2 most of those people are or were good at fighting but just physically couldn’t do it anymore
@@Saber23 Yes. The key word is "most". There are still people who may not be that great at the physical aspect themselves but are very smart when it comes to fighting.
My point is you don't need to be physically a martial artist. You can still have the knowledge and be a martial artist.
On the other hand I wonder if you were like Deotay Wilder-not much knowledge or fight IQ (compared to his competition) but overwhelming power (compared to most).
Does he fit into what a martial artist is? He's not very skilled but has killer striking power. He's an example of someone who is good physically but mentally and skill wise? Not really.
Our martial art is all about peace. *PROCEEDS TO SHOW YOU EYE JABS AND ARM BREAKS*
"Where Zen ends, Ass Kickin' Begins!"
-Steven Hyde (That 70s shoe)
Thank you Ramsey
Actually you have a radio announcer voice today and sound great. I first thought you got a better microphone. I love all your videos.
In my old judo school, one of the head teachers had a 16yr old girlfriend, she joined in on some of the classes, along with his 17yr old son. He was like 54 or something like that. And parents apparently had no problems leaving their 7-17yr old kids with this man. That shit was so fucked up!😢
“We have learned by sad experience that it is the nature and disposition of almost all men, as soon as they get a little authority, as they suppose, they will immediately begin to exercise unrighteous dominion” -Joseph Smith Jr
@@RamseyDewey Great quote! (Why are truths allways sad?) I guess i've seen it before and will again, it's just the parents that i can't seem to wrap my head around. It's not like it was some kind of brainwashed McDojo cult or anything like that, everything was normal (aside from this man obviously). Yet in this otherwise perfectly normal environment no one reacted on the fact that a man who was responsible for children was not only a pedophile but was actually 100% openly so. He didn't even try to hide it or anything. This man gave absolutely zero fucks and that is not so surprising perhaps, but the fact that not a single person even raised the issue is what made it a truly horrifying eye opener for me. 😬
Thank you! I always catch heat for saying that morality is not a fundamental aspect of martial arts. I feel like people want to overcomplicate the concept, but if we reduce Martial arts to an absolute, it could simply mean the ability to overcome an opponent by strategically using the weapons available to you. And yes, I do realize that this definition includes chess, but since it's meant to simulate war, I'm going to argue that chess is a martial art 😂😂
Hey! The Duellists!!! One of the best sword fighting movies ever! 🥳
Nailed it!! Everything you said!
I agree with all the points.
The interesting obervation I made so far is that the people at the top of their arts, tend to be pretty good people.
Maybe because there are many filters, for example you (in most cases) need the ability to put your ego out of the way to stay long term.
So I things bad/unstable humans are usually filtered out. Of course, there are exceptions.
(My experience is mainly Grappling/Boxing/MMA)
Like who? I can think of numerous top fighters that are not role models at all. The few that are, come from a traditional martial arts background which greatly influenced them before switching over to mma or kickboxing. - sadly, these are the exception and not the majority.
I've experpienced a big difference between how fighters act in public vs. at the gym when you talk/train with them.
The emphasize on showmanship in Boxing and the UFC rewards almost all fighters that act like dickheads because it (sadly) brings more viewers.
Promotions like ONE, PFL, Bellator, KSW tend to not do the American showmanship hype.
In general, fighters I've met and trained with were very nice people, even if they behaved bombastically in front of the camera.
@@carl6167ONE have a cool way of promotioning fights IMO. Not mic, not "trash talk", just fighting and giving the Heart in it (like Shavkat rakhmonov)
Why does listening to Ramsey sound like a breath of fresh air? Well... Maybe because it is! Thanks, Ramsey! I always enjoy your perspective on a subject that's so often covered in nonsense!
My brother and a few friends used to go in-between our Florida apartment buildings on the grass patches and play "takedown" -- we would square up and then try to get the other person down. We didn't do any strikes or anything, but we played like that all the time as kids. These weren't shitty friends -- these were high-caliber buds who were more into Tekken than trying out for any sports team. Nerds play wrestling, basically.
We didn't need a class to know not to hurt or exploit each other -- it was for fun and to figure out if wrestling moves worked. It sometimes got rough, but it was always live and let-live. We were boys, and it wasn't ever that serious. With that being said, I don't think the martial arts needs to overemphasize moral teaching. BUT....BUT!!!!....BUT....
Martial artists should definitely be prepared to engage in moral conversations, and have their morals questioned. On its surface, why should I associate with someone who makes violence their primary occupation? Either through teaching, trarining, or competition? What is the value of violence? Why is violence a part of YOUR life, and why should we learn to protect ourselves at all?
Martial arts would not exist without conflict and physical violence. Violence is awful, and you need to justify why it should be visited, even as a passenger or tourist looking to study it.
Pretty interest question! Honestly, this involves psychology and philosophy (even political) aspects. Rashad Evans stated it pretty good once, also the encourage not only of violence, but also anger and rage. Like someone says: "Anger is a gift"
I used to think this as well until I got to know more martial artists LOL.
What do you mean by this? Tbh most of the serious martial artists i know are pretty cool people
@@tonymack4120 that's great
@@tonymack4120some are, some are not. That's the point.
@@tonymack4120there’s a shocking amount of people who are willing to lay out less experienced people in sparring to make themselves feel good. Riding high off the pain of an uneven opponent isn’t something a good person does when everyone is trying to have fun and learn at the end of the day
With great power comes great responsibility ~spider man
As a martial arts instructor
You have 2 choices
1. To give people tools HOW to fight with no context WHEN ( in terms of morality) to fight.
2. Teach when and how to fight.
Most karate dojos have a creed sometimes posted on the wall, something along the lines
The techniques learned are not meant for evil or bad purposes:
Bullying, crime, braging or hate
Only for good: denfense of friends, family and self.
Striving to be become a good person of good moral character
creeds are also part of jodo
Kano himself said that the purpose of Judo is to strengthen body by practicing attack and defense, to complete the personality by training the mind, and finally to devote oneself to society.
Bjj, kickboxing, wrestling tend to be secular. And i find way more people with out of control egos.
John Danaher: “I Give Almost Zero Moral Advice To My Athletes”
Gordon Ryan is a terrible rolemode for kids, openly using steroids, slapping opponents in the face for no reason
Then you have guys like gsp who is a very moral person and everyone likes, im sure learn some of this from karate at a young age.
It’s good to teach the responsibility of the fighting arts and how badly it can damage your opponent to students (especially young ones) so they don’t use them on any and every occasion and situation, or use the same amount of aggression or force with every technique. Not so much as a moral code but rather learning when it’s an appropriate time to fight, or maybe I’m confusing it and responsibility of fighting techniques is still a moral code.
Please correct me if I’m wrong, I’m not a coach or a teacher; I’m just someone who thinks that old Spiderman code, “with great power comes great responsibility”
It would be more responsible to teach students that if they try to use their martial arts outside of the gym, they’ll get their butts kicked badly because they don’t know how to fight yet.
@RamseyDewey
I think the true lesson here and in life is, (though I Don't condone Stealing) if you MUST Steal, NEVER-EVER-EVER try to return the item if it is from a store, no matter how much you regret it! You will just be punished! Possibly with imprisonment!
The most valuable "VERY SPECIAL EPISODE" Advice we ever received from Full House!
This "Store Policy" should be abolished! It only encourages people to never return stuff. If you could return things without consequence more people would give items back when their conscience kicks in!
"True martial artist is a good person" concept is quite bizarre actually considering most people who believe this also idolizes the murder hobo aka Musashi Miyamoto, like the dude literally killed a child
Exactly! If a man today did what Musashi did, he would be condemned as a serial killer and mass murderer, not to mention an ignoble cheater. But he wrote a book that got passed around a lot, so… martial arts yay!
those are broad strokes. the moral of the book was about his folly and coming to a realization within a dark age having seen the light and producing a definitive work. the man had to literally run away into a cave to escape the bullshido. his work saved more lives than he ever fell by the blade. yeah though, he was a serial killer in as much as any other sanctioned sword carrying psychopath in the then government. he pretty much expounded upon the very premise of this video in his works.
Conflating a duelist with a serial killer is intellectually disingenuous @@johnh.mitchell6519
People back then didn’t consider people of that age to be “children” in the way we see them now
@@RamseyDewey you can’t really judge a 16-17th century context with a Western 21st century lens that would just be naive of us
Jeff Speakman is most known for staring in the perfect weapon
Yes, staring intently.
🙃
But I remember that opening scene, kinda cool.
Sean Strickland comes to mind when talking about this.
Why is that?
Great explanation. Thanks
Sifu Randy assured me that the strength of my character would allow me to shoot fireballs from my finger tips. Although, after one late payment, I'm starting to get suspicious that his assessment of my character is limited to whether or not my twice annual checks to him clear. So, I'm thinking that I can build character faster if I pay for extra lessons. Thanks for the advice, Ramsey!
Nice! This kinda gives me nietzschian Vibes, like 'the will to power' and the fact that a strong person isn't necessarily a good person. I see a lot of people mixing this together with no actual foundation for it. Almost like coping.
And now that I think about it, i did it myself many years ago, when I started my martial arts journey. I trained in a gym with really shady people. Hooligans and that sort of stuff. And I was forced to the conclusion that even though these guys weren't really nice, they knew how to fight and beat me up regularly in the gym. There fore I couldn't no longer trust the 'cope' that strong fighters are good people and I trained even harder.
Just like you once said: If you wanna beat the bigger stronger guy, become the bigger, stronger guy. An advice I still hold on today.
Thank you very much of this lesson and have a good one!
Ramsey brings his view again out without questioning, as he always does. However, there is another way to look at it. Ramsey makes point that the original real meaning of martial artist is a fighter. That is not completely accurate, already in the earliest depictions we have differences between a good fighter and a good master of the combat arts. Anyway, that doesn't really matter, because words change their meaning through time and even the English words Ramsey uses aren't that old. Term really came to "mainstream" in the last century, and since there has been 3 different meanings for it, depending who you ask: 1) Good fighter as Ramsey defines 2) One who has great athletic martial artsy skills and can do fancy Tai Chi or jumping spin kicks, but don't necessarily know how to actually fight 3) Bushido chivalry knight, master of meditation, wise man confident enough in his skills not needing to use violence to boost his own ego, but capable of using them to protect others. And the 3rd has little to do with Christianity, the idea is much older and world wide. Whether Ramsey agrees on the latter two points doesn't matter, for there are lot's of people who do, you can be a "true martial artist" only if you encompass all three. True in the sense that every one agrees you are one. And that's what a "true martial artist" means.
Speaking of “martial arts“ entering the English language, through medieval fencing… Apparently the medieval and Renaissance Masters did devote some of their time to instructing their students in the ethics and morality of fighting - when and why to fight, when not to, and so on. Probably Cuz back then there was an epidemic of people thinking that being trained in a fighting art was an excuse to go around and throw their weight around with it.
From what I can tell, there are 3 main archetypes which provide an edge in combat. 1: intelligent psychopath, 2: natural athlete, and 3: intelligent empath.
1:05 Thank you for acknowledging HEMA.
Hey coach, I'm curious as to why Jack Dempsey said in his book to throw hooks palm down, where we see a lot of fighters with exceptional left hooks do palm in (such as Joe Frazier, Mike Tyson, Alex Pereira). Is it for hitting 2 knuckle rather than 3 knuckle? Is it something to do with the power line? Or is it simply a matter of comfort?
So you can clear the shoulder and target the chin of an opponent with his guard up. Start watching around the 5:30 mark th-cam.com/video/koQh_j3fq4s/w-d-xo.htmlsi=klz8UsHXe5yr7xbZ
Hey ramsey, good points you made there, but I wished you addresses an instructor's responsibility a little more. Sure at first the trainer/coach is supposed to teach me how to fight, but don't you think the instructor should also make the students aware of some boundaries?
I had a trainer once who explicitly stated that if any of his students would engage in any kind of physical assault and abuse his martial arts skills, he would ban them from the gym.
I think this makes a lot of sense. I would not want to have a guy like sensei kreese from karate kid as my coach. But neither Mr myagi who teaches good values but bad martial arts.
Bad martial arts in real-world terms, but in-universe Mr. Miyagi was quite effective.
"See guys...I told you I was a real martial artist!"(I proudly display my "C" in college fencing circa 1992 to my D&D club). Awe ensues.
Great video on martial arts thanks for the upload
A martial artist is an artist. Imo we confuse martial artist with warrior or soldier
If artists can be bad people, martial artists can be bad people too.
"why not?" HAHA I love it
two things I'd like to say about this subject. A fighter doesn't have to be a good person but nor does he or she have to be a bad person like some people assume. Fighting gyms should also take some responsibility and teach their students some discipline so they don't go arround beating up random people recklessly.
True for some reason people seem to think fighters don’t have free will, they can choose to be both good and bad people and virtuous people pick the former
You talk non-sense.
Mike Tyson mugged people in the streets before he was a boxer. As a matter of fact, being a mugger is his qualification to be a boxer.
@@quach8quach907 are you fucking stupid? 🤣 there were tons of crooks who trie dot get into boxing but failed his qualification was meeting Cus and learning discipline
@@quach8quach907 great why don't you go mugging people then? surely it would turn you into a boxing world champion /s
I think one of the sources of this misconception is the vast catalog of folk tales that talk about gentle warriors, fighter monks, etc. But they are just tales. It also goes along with the typical idea of old, skinny "grandmasters" who look unassuming but can kick ass. You'd find excellent fighters with a strong moral code, as well as unassuming grandmasters that can school anyone, but they are as rare as each other.
This has always been an interesting debate and a realization I had when I switched from traditional to modern martial arts. I’ve never been under the impression that every martial artist is a good person. I watched too many kung fu movies growing up for me to not understand that.
But rather, good martial artists SHOULD ALSO be good people. Everyone should strive to be a “good person” in the colloquial sense but if you have skills that make you more dangerous as a person, you should also have the morality to balance it out. It’s why we like seeing displays of sportsmanship even in the most brutal sports in the world. We like the idea that we can control that violence and not lose our humanity.
Thank you for the video Ramsey, insightful as always.
An additional point: I like to think of martial arts as “the force” from star wars (not in a woowoo mystical way). Mostly in the sense that in the star wars universe, there’s many people that are “skilled with the force” but they all fall on either the light side of the dark side or somewhere in between. You would think having some sort of mystical power would make everyone like Yoda but quite the opposite is seen. Even the jedi did some pretty horrible things.
@@blackomega4061I think that martial arts make you a stronger person, but not necessarily a decent person. Courage and discipline are necessary virtues, but you should also seek to be a good person 😊
One of the karate clubs I went to in Glasgow Scotland went for a drink after training he still had his gym bag someone walked up to him and asked what would you do if I was going to attack you he didn't say anything he just stuck a glass in his face and in the boxing club I went to a young boxer blinded someone in a street fight he got a few months in prison he didn't even start the fight
CS Lewis wrote a short text called "The necessary of chvalry". This describes why a good man both needs to be both a bone hard fighter and a soft gentle father, depending on the context. While at the same time understanding that this is really hard to do, but we should strive for it anyway. And martial arts can play a important role in this travel through life.
Ares was the greek god of war (or at least one of them). Mars was his roman version. The romans did have their own versions of the olympic gods. Mars is technically Ares.
Fucking finally someone says it out loud.
Says what? This is a known thing for anyone with more then 3 braincells, just knowing how to fight doesn’t make you a good person, you need to choose to be one
Moron
We all know true martial artists gives away belts like candy and overcharge people for their "secret ancient technicks"😂
You know all you people have to do is let us Arabs run your martial arts industry in the West and we would literally fix it in a month
I think this is an interesting topic. I haven't been in a fight in 30 years and probably wont be ever again. But i study martial arts for the focus, control, mindfulness and health benefits i think they offer. Plus, i have fun!
Curious about your thoughts on Shi Heng Yi and his work?
Man, just remember Spidermans quote 'With great power comes greater responsibilities'. It is not enough to be a good technician and no one should strive for that.
Man if that's the case then Greek hoplites must have been really nice guys.
I do think that there is value in using things like martial arts or sports or a great many other things as vehicles for communicating values, but it is always important to recognize that those are decisions made, and are not inherent. There is a difference between them, even when we choose to pair them. Your points are excellent.
So absolutely true.
Why Cus D'Amato said "bad intentions." You're not cultivating virtue in a ring (or in war). You're fighting.
That’s not true. You’re definitely cultivating courage in a fight, and it’s the most important one tbh. It’s just being a courageous person doesn’t mean you’re a good person
There is no virtue, no courage, without the Good. I concede it takes a measure of bravery to engage in battle, but a true and deeper courage would be to voluntarily (NOT passively) avoid conflict altogether. Fighting (or any game, really) means seeking advantage at the expense of another (“bad intentions”). Now that’s perfectly natural-per Heraclitus, conflict makes the world go round-but let’s not confuse it with virtue.
There’s good and bad people no matter wherever you go. I’m a martial artist and I love to fight
This might be a consequence of the modern changes to martial arts that do involve teaching some "good character", but I've never met a student of martial arts that I wasn't willing to be friends with. Every martial artist I've met demonstrates more respect than most of society. Additionally, there is a side effect of learning how to fight that "accidentally" builds character. That side effect is learning when to fight. Every martial artist I've met has had, somewhere in their training, something like the phrase "Don't fight! Really, do not fight! But if you must fight, this is how you fight well."
interesting subject. perhaps I just had really good instructors but always kind of figured the two went hand in hand , because self confidence in your ability to protect yourself helps create an inner peace and inner harmony. Kind of the warrior within the garden rather than the gardener in the war. I was only ever taught that beating someone for the pleasure of beating someone was bad,,, but then that was my father speaking not my instructors . For more and more gyms it's becoming a form of cardio not a form of combat, which is fine as long as the students don't think it's going to make them the next GSP. Great vid keep them coming.
Yeah, exactly. It's a skill. Anyone who's a master at any skill...martial arts, painting, computer programming, carpentry...is just really good at that skill. Not necessarily a virtuous or ideal person in any way other than that one skill and anything absolutely required to gain that skill. It's just silly to present this as anything else. I'm surprised to hear that Jeff Speakman would say something so absurd.
I agree with you. It is 100% true.
I feel it’s case by case. I went through a very rough 15 year relationship that started breaking my soul a bit. I started to develop some narcissistic behavior.
I went back to training
MMA/Judo. As a result of training, I started getting my peace of mind back and morals, emotions came back, I wasn’t a hallow shell after 6 months of training jiu-jitsu mainly. But I guess I’m just not wired right lol.
In shorter words the training made me better and healed the trauma. But your absolutely right a fighter doesn’t have to be a good person.
I actually can admit I was way more disciplined with some anger.
Good honest stuff in this video. Thank You Ramsey ✌🏼👍🏼🤟🏼
I personally think the "virtue" aspect is pretty important when talking about martial arts for self defense is we are talking about it in a wholistic way. While its important to not be delusional by training solely ineffective techniques, learning to respect other people and tamping down ones ego can go a long way in avoiding a fight. You can never lose a fight that you don't have to get into in the first place. I've been to too many boxing/mma gyms where lots of students are just there there to hurt their training partners and feel tough. I know that's not the case everywhere, but it is a problem much like how some gyms being too unrealistic is a problem.
I saw a video of sean strickland throwing a black belt on the trash, and a bunch of BJJ guys were coping saying the UFC Champion who dedicated his life to it wasnt a true martial artists
There’s so much belt worship and belt idolatry in modern martial arts. One of my greatest coaches ever once threw out his entire stack of title belts, championship trophies, and medals (quite a few of them) he just dumped them on the curb where the trash collector would pick them up. He didn’t even say a word about why he did it. But I knew. He didn’t become a martial artist to collect trophies.
@RamseyDewey
....but then how will People Know he is The BEST! ....around? 🤔
@@GaryTongue-zn5di he either doesnt feel like proving himself to other people or he knows he achieved great things and doesnt need material items to prove that
A little info for you, Jeff Speakman is a martial artist who specializes in American Kenpo Karate, a system developed by Ed Parker. Jeff learned American Kenpo Karate from Ed Parker. The two of them worked together on the movie The Perfect Weapon (1991) of which Jeff is the main protagonist. Jeff has been interviewed a few time, you can find the interviews on TH-cam.
Ramsey, I have a question: If it never works on the streets, is it because it's a train and therefore requires set tracks in order to operate?
"A true martial artist is a fighter, not [necessarily] a good or bad person". Fixed it. You're welcome. Good content.
Wrong! True Martial Arts is for Defense only!
I agree. But going to a church or whatever is just as bad if not worse. In the church, being cultish is the express goal. Although, you could argue that having it out in the open is better so people know what they're getting into.
You clearly don't understand what you're talking about.
Did you have a negative experience in a church?
@@RamseyDewey Personally? No. I don't go to church. Or its equivalent in other religions. But I've heard and read plenty from those who did.
@@HaranYakir So you are speaking outside of your experience. What for exactly?
@@RamseyDewey Just a thought that came up
That is the first T-shirt that surpasses the ki-Meowth ra T-shirt.
Let me show you how great the Karate Kid movies are.
The Karate Kid III. I saw it in a second run movie theater for $1.
"Root strong, tree strong Daniel-san."
I'm Vietnamese. 60% of Vietnamese is Chinese, like 60% of English is Latin and French. I'm learning Vietnamese to get back to the roots of Chinese.
I just moved into a predominantly Korean neighborhood. Korean language, same thing 60% Chinese. They divorced themselves of Chinese by inventing their own alphabet and trying to be different. I would encourage them to learn Chinese characters, Hanja, too.
I would say to them:
"Root strong, tree strong. The Karate Kid III."
That is how great Karate-do can be as it is sold as a religion.
Martial arts is effectively mastering combat to point that it becomes art.
Martial Arts seems like a highly personal road. Where some Martial Artists focus on the betterment of their Soul. When you truly connect your Mind/Body/Soul, you don't wanna fight people. Some study to strictly fight people. The internal artist fights their demons, external fights people. Just do you and be happy about it 🙏🏼
My comment came out wrong ima just wish everyone a nice day.
I wish you all a good journey 🙏
de-escalation is the most effective self defense. Work retail service desk and self checkout and you will learn has to calm tense situations.
@@solutionsforabrightfuture3579 you are delusional
You got every thing wrong.
Self defense is really only the goal or desired result in any physical confrontation, however achieved, and not the means of attaining it. You can successfully defend yourself in any number of ways, fighting just being one of them.
@@solutionsforabrightfuture3579 or being a health worker who deals with difficult patients
Got my new band name : "Scratchy Dragon in a Cave"
The definition is important. But the difference is also important. A lot of people aren't meant to be fighter. One can excel in the art and never see combat. Depends on a persons values and goals. A school dedicated to either faction is totally fine. But, the expectation set by the instructor should be well defined for the student to understand what and why they are learning. You can be a good person either way. It all boils down to how the student is taught and the expectations they have, and what the instructors set for them.
Plenty of violent thugs in martial arts history. The "knights" and samurai were simply well organized gangs that extorted money from the populace using religion, etc, as a justification. Divine rights and so on. They used the excuse of "maintaining order" and so on to make the real workers pay for their lifestyle and used violence to steal from them. Hence great improvements in ways to use violence. There were some folkstyle things like wrestling and so on that the peasants were allowed to do, but many were not allowed to carry swords and the idea of a person working with their hands using them for sport fighting was pretty silly. Kano liked Jiu Jitsu but he wanted to banish the thugs, hence he got rid of prize fighting, which the Brazilians decided to embrace. If you want to look up the criminal history of the Gracies, it's all their for you to see.
I don't know why you think a person can't be both a Fighter and a Good person at the same time. I've never committed a crime other than minor traffic violations, and I'm one of the best fighters I know of.
That is not what was said. But since we are here, there is no such thing as a good person. There is only one that is good, and that is God alone.
@@RamseyDewey Oh, you're right about that, but I don't need the NT to tell me that.
Jeff Speakman,you mean the actual Kenpo Master himself and graduate student of Ed Parker and Ed Parker Jr.'s Kenpo Karate Association!?
WOW,Now Thats Making Real Connections There-"Im Extremely Impressed!"😮-😊*
I never knew that about the origin in English of the term “martial art” pertaining to sword fighting.
Learn something new every day! 👍👏
Mars is not the same as Ares. Roman god of war did not have negative aspects that Ares carried. Also Mars was the god patron of sports.
I get mocked by neckbeards regularly for stating this. "You shouldn't have a black belt if you're a jerk." Why? That BJJ black belt can whoop my arse, regardless of how nice they are. RD has been on a roll lately, bringing the controversy lol.
You unwittingly answered your own question.
@@Shrapnel82 It was very wittingly, lol. The answer is "it doesn't matter." If you say someone isn't a black belt because they're not nice doesn't take their ability away
In Okinawa, Karate teachers would say No to a potential student many times, to test his determination and ego.
Then, after accepting to teach him, they would be rude during training, to further test his ego.
Making someone practice the same kata for 6-12 months may have been not just a way to learn the basics, but also a test.
PS: those masters had day jobs, weren't getting paid to teach Karate, so they could be very picky when choosing students.
Isn't That The Plot To Fight Club? 🤔
Not a movie. Not a movie script, but real life.
A contender on The Ultimate Fighter show said:
"Punching somebody's face is easier than punching the clock (going to work a regular job)."
Fighting is just a metaphor for the real fight which is real life.
That's something a master in the Shaolin Temple would say to a "grasshopper".
Martial arts very Kung Fu-ey, by its nature.
That's why fighters have two personalities. My own sensei tells me: "outside the ring, you're nice; in the ring, you're an asshole."
This sounds like Jordan Peterson, train to be a monster, and then tame that monster.
I don't think Ramsey is a druggie like Jordan.
Yyes, but... it's not fighting techniques it's martial arts.
Even when fighting and martial can be synonyms, martial has a focus in war. it's a wider concept.
The word arts implies more than just technique.
So we add *martial + arts* and we obtain some basis.
MMA tournaments are not an style, it's just tournaments where different styles can be matched at.
ex. g. UFC MMA don't work all the ranges, all the strategies, all the tactics and of course don't cover all the martial (war) techniques that a martial lover could havr learned.
Even wide tournaments like m-1 couldn't cover everything.
It's just so arrogant like most of us st 80's and 90's used to visualize all the different styles standing up, we couldn't conceive grappling as martial art style (exept the few ones which already knew grappling styles).
2020's and now we should know there's still a lot more from martial arts to enjoy/ learn/ discover/compare.
Group strategies, team conformation, attack at night, throwing weapons, open order commands, sabotage, amphibian skills, mountain skills, there's a lot that we still can't watch for the sake of art. Here enters moral codes, discipline, etc, things that could make stronger, weaker, efficient an army, that's well known, and there's an art on inspiring soldiers, and there's strategy on making them more collaborative values, or competitive ones, for example.
Most of practicioners are technicians (soldiers, instructors) who prepare for the real battles, and there are really few families and individuals (including soldiers) that keep and develop their arts (i mean their martial arts) , when there are no other events or guys to compete against.
I don't know coach. I think it's more nuanced than that.
I've had martial arts teachers who were absolutely sports experts and good teachers of technique, but terrible people. Their gyms inevitably became horrible places because there was no filter for character in the athletics. In some cases, it even reached criminal levels.
On the other hand, I had other coaches just as skilled as the ones above, but they illegitimately tried to impose a very non-universalizable morality standard on me based on their politics, religion, or other biases... and it was just as shitty. Couldn't leave soon enough.
Then on yet another hand, I had other teachers who absolutely held a standard of character; wherein you couldn't be an observably shitty person and train at their gym, but didn't have the heavy non-universals (politics etc); just uncontroversial "good person" and "do no harm / take no shit" virtue ethics. Shitty-person students would be invited to find another gym no matter how talented they were, at these gyms. Those environments had the best mix of athletic talent and good people after it all came out of the wash; best family gyms too.
Based on these experiences, I consider that kind of character filtering (and thus: defacto character development, as good people rub off on one another) a minimum of responsibility when you are literally teaching students how to be able to murder or maim people.
In conclusion... You don't know how... to.... FIGHT!
great video!
It's a value judgement. It's a good sword, it's a good technique, it's good to defend yourself. To be devoted is good, discipline is good. It's good to use safe and mindful security. It's good to see how competitive circuits work. The way you teach young people striking arts seems good. Virtue practiced successfully for generations becomes a value, martial prowess is bad for the enemy. 🙂↕️
This question could have just been answered with two words:
Jon Jones