Was the Emperor Evil? | Warhammer 40k Lore

แชร์
ฝัง
  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 16 พ.ย. 2024

ความคิดเห็น • 78

  • @dalaminaubis7822
    @dalaminaubis7822 2 ปีที่แล้ว +28

    This is more or less how I've always felt about the Emperor, especially in regards to Angron. He was overcome with shame, having failed to reunite with his son who was probably made to be the least war like, next to Lorgar perhaps, who had ended up on one of the most cruel, merciless worlds possible, mutilated and broken is such a way that it literally shocked him. "What have they done to you?"
    At times the Emperor resorted to terrible means, but when the price of failure is the extinction of humanity, the ends do justify the means. How can something better ever be built if everything is lost forever?

    • @lorestream6002
      @lorestream6002  2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      I really do think he was just doing his very best and rolling with the punches.

    • @dizzlebizzle8424
      @dizzlebizzle8424 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@lorestream6002 the problem is if he doesn't have perfect knowledge of the future and know that his plan is one of if not the only paths forward without chaos reigning, and is 'rolling with the punches' then the question of this video becomes obvious. your motivation does not excuse your atrocities unless it truly is the only option available versus the even worse atrocities, but his vision is not perfect and his knowledge is flawed so it can't really be said that he's not wholly evil by his actions without any real justification.

  • @zerogravityhead1
    @zerogravityhead1 2 ปีที่แล้ว +22

    I hear you, and I agree with your conclusions. And I think the setting is all the more beautiful because of his humanity too, how beneath all these grand stategies and ploys .. the emperor was more human and loving then he ever let on, instead of it being the other way around.

    • @lorestream6002
      @lorestream6002  2 ปีที่แล้ว +7

      There's definitely more than one way to look at it. But I really do like to look at the Emperor as this hero of an almost greek tragedy-esque type.

    • @zerogravityhead1
      @zerogravityhead1 2 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      @@lorestream6002 true there is, and I like seeing it that way too. I think all great stories have the struggle, the whole "heart in conflict with it's self". I also look at warhammer as a reverse star wars. The father is forced to kill his rebellious son, to preserve an intergalatic empire. And the "empire" isn't so different from the imperium in some ways, except their actually defending humanity (and even all sentient species in some sense) from extinction. It's like, a bunch of british sci-fi nerds got tired of being the villians all the time and made their own, english version of it.

    • @lincolnosiris3665
      @lincolnosiris3665 2 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      40k is like Star Wars...at it´s core...a family tragedy.

  • @brettgreen5044
    @brettgreen5044 2 ปีที่แล้ว +11

    There's another way to look at his timing for the Unification War though. He might have just been waiting for humanity to bring itself to the brink of destruction so it would be less able to resist being conquered.

    • @lorestream6002
      @lorestream6002  2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      I might just make a counter video from the other viewpoint. I love that the lore is a bit conflicting.

    • @darksider2903
      @darksider2903 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      If he wanted, he could always rule. He can mind control someone, has power to make people do whatever he want. If he wanted, he could sit on highest position and political power during golden age of humanity. He helped humanity to achieve golden age from beginning. But he did it from shadow influencing powerful rulers. What are you talking about?! 😑

    • @brettgreen5044
      @brettgreen5044 2 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      @@darksider2903 Maybe, but if that's the case then it begs the question; why did he wait so long? If he could have stepped in whenever he wanted then why not avert the apocalypse instead of rebuilding afterwards?

    • @darksider2903
      @darksider2903 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@brettgreen5044 as he mentioned emperor is not all powerful. He couldn't just stop the apocalypse or fight off countless horrific dark age things. New uncontrollable pyskers started popping up, AI got infected by warp demons, not even he could manage to destroy them all. So he waited and hatched another plan while most of tyrants fight among them, to protect humanity. Webway and United humanity was the salvation but to achieve it he needed powerful army to fight off what galaxy had to offer.

    • @brettgreen5044
      @brettgreen5044 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@darksider2903 I dunno man. Saying he could have taken over whenever he wanted because he can mind control whoever he wants, but then saying he couldn't actually stop people from building monstrosities and destroying each other seems a bit contradictory. Because again, if he could have taken over at any time, why wait? What did he gain by letting us nearly destroy ourselves first?
      I just think it's more likely that wasn't able to take over whenever he wanted. Same reason he had to negotiate with Mars instead of just mind controlling their leaders.

  • @mide2476
    @mide2476 2 ปีที่แล้ว +9

    I have to admit, this argument is VERY convincing.
    I am now a subscriber.

    • @lorestream6002
      @lorestream6002  2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Thanks! A lot of room for interpretation here, but I think this is somewhat close to the current trend in canon.

  • @aguspuig6615
    @aguspuig6615 2 ปีที่แล้ว +12

    this channel is gonna grow so quick great stuff, im one of the lucky few to find this channel so soon

    • @lorestream6002
      @lorestream6002  2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Thank you so much! It’s actually starting to take off and it’s really shocking.

    • @diomedes39
      @diomedes39 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Elder scrolls and 40k? That’s my two biggest famdoms on one channel so I’m looking forward to seeing more

  • @ernakopmak5373
    @ernakopmak5373 2 ปีที่แล้ว +7

    The story of the Emperor is kind of an allegorical tragic story to what actually happens to a man who ascends to unimaginable heights of power in the hierarchy.
    Having personal relationships become pointless. Family and friends become just words that we use to convey ideas to people and he fully understands what it means and yet can't interact the same way as before anymore.
    Pursuit of love, happiness and success (in the sense of the word we understand it) become absolutely absurd ideas.
    Both feelings and logic become irrelevant, good and evil become non-existent concepts. There is only that one thing you set out to do.
    To the emperor, it is the continuity of mankind's existence.
    And thus he will kill without wishing death for anyone.
    Thus he will take without wanting to own anything.
    Thus he will withhold the truth without intending to fool people for the sake of it.
    And he will defy the natural laws if needed, so long as it serves that one intention he has in mind.
    And this single-mindedness is why the Emperor of Mankind is the foil to the ruinous powers.
    But at what cost? So many of us in real life want to reach the pinnacle of all power and glory and when you get there, there seems to be a heavy element of existential crisis that will shroud your very being. It takes someone with a mind like his to overcome this and not get lost in that path towards the salvation of mankind. It will undoubtedly put you in the position where you will have to commit all kinds of atrocities not for atrocity's sake alone, but for a nobler purpose (I'm not talking about 'the greater good', of course.)
    His story is a wake up call for all of us to the tune of how our own mundane lives are still arguably simpler and much much happier and fulfilling, despite the lack of control and awareness we have of this universe. We are still very lucky beings and we should be thankful for the simplicity, and though we on the 21st century reached the heights of the technology we have, we ought to be grateful of what we achieved so far, and stop maybe a few minutes a day take time to smell the flowers and enjoy the wonderful, generally safer society we live in the modern times.
    And finally, if ever there is a reason that the Emperor sees his sons as tools, it is only because he sees himself as no more than this either in the bigger picture of things. He is the tool that needs to keep functioning as intended up until the very bitter end, whether it is through wielding a flaming sword in a shining golden armor or being stuck in an intensive care unit life support for several millenia. Whatever it takes and however long it lasts.

    • @lorestream6002
      @lorestream6002  2 ปีที่แล้ว

      I absolutely agree and you said it much better than I could have. Amazing write up.

  • @jeambeam3173
    @jeambeam3173 2 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    In regards to your last statement what adds to it is part of what caused the Heresy was the act of the Emperor wanting his Empire of Man to be ruled by Men and not super humans

    • @lorestream6002
      @lorestream6002  2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Very possible. I think he either planned it and wanted it to happen, or planned it but only wanted to wipe out the traitors. Can’t wait to see in the future which one was true.

    • @KieranByers
      @KieranByers 5 หลายเดือนก่อน

      so you mean like democracy? not that as in helldivers but, you get what i mean

    • @jeambeam3173
      @jeambeam3173 5 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@KieranByers I wouldn't call it democracy. Who's to say the Emperor wasn't going to in a way let each planet decend into a fascist shit hole being or not being stuck on the throne as long as the quotas are filled and there's no chaos corruption

    • @jeambeam3173
      @jeambeam3173 5 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@KieranByers it was more about the Space Marines thinking they were above humans and also being paranoid because who's to say they weren't going to be Thunder Warriored

  • @ianharrison5758
    @ianharrison5758 2 ปีที่แล้ว +10

    I’ve always seen the emperor as a man who was too powerful and important to be seen as human. I don’t mean that in the sense that he was supposed to be seen as a god, I mean that he was destined to make choices that can’t be reconciled with a loving man.
    He is too important to risk his own existence for others, because without him, humanity is lost.
    He is too intelligent, too aware of the consequences of hesitation to afford putting the necessary time into a relationship to build it.
    He is the embodiment of mankind, and all of its self contradictory ideals.
    despite his role and importance, he still tried everything in his power to preserve humanity, his relationship with it, and his relationship with his sons.
    The emperor loved humanity, so much in fact he was willing to bet his life on it.
    And he loved his sons, so much he was almost killed by one. He’s truly a tragic figure who could only ever choose one future: a future where humanity prospers, or one where he does. He, despite his power, always chose the former.

    • @lorestream6002
      @lorestream6002  2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Exactly; amazing write-up. He was a man, expected to do the job of a god and godslayer. Too far detached from humanity to act human, for the sake of saving it he had to put himself apart from them.

  • @ChrisHopkinsBass
    @ChrisHopkinsBass 2 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    I think the Emperor acted when he did because the birth of Slaanesh cleared the warp storms and he realised that this was his only chance to save the galactic humans before Chaos became all powerful

    • @lorestream6002
      @lorestream6002  2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Agreed! There were so many reasons why he had to act then or never. Humanity was on the precipice of either it’s revival or it’s abject doom.

    • @valostheroman
      @valostheroman ปีที่แล้ว

      I mean, wasn't that what the great crusade was all about? Warp storms clear, 80%-90% of humanity being enslaved or reduced to barbarians,
      The rising of the rangdan, the orks becoming bigger without any intervention from humans or eldars to control them, chaos entering the materium and everything else involved... Either he started then, or the dangers would have made humanity go extinct, and the interex were simply too small, and everyone seems to forget that it was Erebus fault after all, not even Horus, he was negotiating with the Interex till the whole crap happened

  • @yogurtb4757
    @yogurtb4757 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    The fact that the Emperor let all of Angron's gladiator brothers and sisters die on Nucernia shows that he's cruel and uncaring, if not obtuse or straight up evil. Angron might have remained loyal to the end of his life when he finally succumbed to the nails if not for that. Maybe he would have been turned to join Horus eventually but because of what the emperor did or rather failed to do, he really left Angron with little choice.

    • @dwwolf4636
      @dwwolf4636 ปีที่แล้ว

      Which loyal primarch would you exchange ?

  • @internetpleb4854
    @internetpleb4854 2 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    Considering the state of humanity post age of strife I’d choose the emperor anytime

    • @lorestream6002
      @lorestream6002  2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Definitely. Humans have a tendency to gravitate towards great figures in times of strife, but at least the Emperor is actually pretty capable.

    • @kharngotrekson1726
      @kharngotrekson1726 ปีที่แล้ว

      Especially the worlds he purified that said "Please leave us alone we are fine here!". They were so glad to choose the Emperor.

  • @Asperbund90
    @Asperbund90 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    thia content is great. Answers the big questions

  • @-AxisA-
    @-AxisA- 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    1:42 Emperor of Mankind Amogus confirmed?!

  • @stewartthorpe2533
    @stewartthorpe2533 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Well done. Please do more

  • @jeambeam3173
    @jeambeam3173 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    It sucks how amazing both Warhammer fantasy and 40k is but a mix of the price of the hobby, the lack of shows, movies, or good video games, and just how some of the fan base is as the target demographic is basically rich people will make it never as popular as it should be

    • @lorestream6002
      @lorestream6002  2 ปีที่แล้ว

      I love the books for this reason. Interesting and open to most salaries!

    • @myriad9597
      @myriad9597 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      *Lack of good video games* Dawn of war, space marine, Gladius, warhammer total war and vermintide would like to have a word with you.

  • @jakedoan7665
    @jakedoan7665 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    In my view the empore fits in nicely as the anti-christ from revelations. Whether he knew he was or not

    • @lorestream6002
      @lorestream6002  2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Hm, I’ve never thought about it like that. Would love to hear more.

    • @jakedoan7665
      @jakedoan7665 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@lorestream6002 I loved end of the world stories as a kid. From what I remember of the antichrist, he declares there is no God or God's, unites mankind, suffers some kind of mortal head wound but is resurrected or doesn't die (golden thrown?) declares he is God. Then all of the end of the world stuff starts

  • @PoorMansChemist
    @PoorMansChemist ปีที่แล้ว

    Thank you! By any metric the EoM is the single most evil person to have ever lived. He's a monster.

  • @regret7548
    @regret7548 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    How dare you question our Holy-man-Emperor? Turn yourself in to the Inquisition immediately.

    • @lorestream6002
      @lorestream6002  2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      I swear it was just an attempt to explain his goodness to the masses!

    • @regret7548
      @regret7548 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@lorestream6002 I’m going to sub just in case for more HERESY

    • @lorestream6002
      @lorestream6002  2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@regret7548 lmao. Welcome aboard!

    • @KieranByers
      @KieranByers 5 หลายเดือนก่อน

      honestly, I know this is a joke I don't know if the emperor would even give a dame about it.

  • @whisped8145
    @whisped8145 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    What bothers me greatly about 40k Writing is that the Astartes and especially the Primarchs are all supposed to have Genius Level IQ, but always make the dumbest decisions possible and draw the stupidest conclusions imaginable. They do not act like geniuses.
    This is simply due to the limitations of the writers: It is difficult if not impossible to write characters smarter than yourself, for that requires mental skills you have not even unlocked, do not even know exist, so how could you emulate them? Most people of average IQ still struggle with recursion. How is a writer of average intelligence supposed to write a character as "a genius" except by stating it and having him somehow succeed at whatever he's doing? Such an average writer will be incapable of explaining the how and why in a reasonable fashion, unable to fill the gaps between problem and solution, the reasoning itself. When the reasoning is dumb, the character is dumb.
    Only a few characters get some blatant excuses, like Angron being subject to his artificially stunted emotions. But to believe that all or most Primarchs are emotionally immature and therefore make the dumbest decisions imaginable is hard to believe. The issue has been addressed since the Epic of Gilgamensh, and as such would be nothing but a bad excuse to claim that the Emperor oversaw to address it in the creation of the Primarchs.

  • @joel7227
    @joel7227 10 หลายเดือนก่อน

    It's the scale of his vision that is unfathomable.
    There is an estimated 8-15 quadrillion humans in warhammer 40k, with the Emperor trying to save as many as he can. Not to mention the uncountable amount of xeno scum waiting around the corner.
    How many lives must end for him to take notice, 1? 10? 10,000? When comparing to the grand vision of 15 quadrillion, the Emperor wouldn't get out of bed (Or off the throne hehe) until it was a decent percentage of the total.
    I view him like Dr Manhattan. Dr M seeing all of time simultanously, so singular events or moments in time become irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. Similarly with the Emperor, he looks after such a big crowd that the individual doesn't even come into his train of thought. - Caveat being the few times he's gone out of his way to help a single person. Even then those people were part of the bigger picture.
    In saying that, all tyrants start with compassion. Where is the E man within that spectrum? Who knows.

  • @A1509MDIX
    @A1509MDIX 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Praise be to the Emperor!
    Great video. Subscribed!

  • @benoliver5593
    @benoliver5593 ปีที่แล้ว

    My answer to this question is this: would you rather those lives have a chance at life, grow up and then die fighting to these horrors or would you rather they not exist at all or worse die knowing that there was never going to be hope of someone coming to save them (because they are warring with the neighbors or they don't have decent leaders) even if the only choice they had was to obliterate the whole planet to stop the suffering?
    Do I agree with what the Emperor did? Yes no question about it
    Do I agree with the people he left in charge ? Nah not really except Malcador
    He should have been left completely in charge of OG Silent Sisters and one hidden primarch (maybe his clone in case things went even more tits up then Old Night)

  • @samputnam12345
    @samputnam12345 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Great vid

  • @23Raind
    @23Raind 8 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I must disagree. Ultimately as he explained with his mountain analogy; he saw the destination but not how to get there. He believes that was what would eventually happen but the path to that destination was blurry.
    he saw a desired destination for humanity but early on believed that humanity could reach that state on its own, or with only a little help along the way. He believed that his desired utopia would eventually create itself or require little action on his part.
    Later, with the collapse he changed his mind, concluding that humanity would not achieve this vision of his, unless he out a gun to the head of humanity, enslaved us all.
    He was only content to operate in the shadows when ye thought humanity would eventually bring about his dream without his tyranny. He was not content to let himanity choose a different path.

  • @islar7832
    @islar7832 7 หลายเดือนก่อน

    This all sounds good and all, but at the end of the day it rings hallow.
    Why didn't the emperor drop down to save Angron and his buddies? (It would have been very easy for him to do so)
    Why did the emperor not keep the thunder warriors around for a while longer as auxiliaries or even attempt to aleviate their degrading health/mental stability?
    Why was the emperor in such a rush to conquer the galaxy? Even going to the point of punishing legions who brought worlds too slowly into the fold? Like srsly? Where is the rush? It is not like the chaos gods were jerking off demon invasion after demon invasion at the galaxy, in fact all his conflict seem only to empower them more.
    At every opportunity he seems to take the easy way out or at least consider it.
    Why was he xenocidal? There were xeno races who were against chaos and were okay, but the emps was like nah, HUMANITY FK YEAH! The rest can go and die.
    And there are other examples of how petty and bad he could be.
    But the truth is that the emperor is both the best and worst thing in 40k, he is a paralel to all the great and worst dictators we had in our history.

  • @eddievalencia403
    @eddievalencia403 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    The title of this video is HERESY!!!

    • @lorestream6002
      @lorestream6002  2 ปีที่แล้ว

      No, Inquisitor, if you would just watch the report I swear it supports our God Emperor!

    • @Alexeimakarov248
      @Alexeimakarov248 ปีที่แล้ว

      SILENCE HERETIC!!!!!!

  • @georgeaswipe5031
    @georgeaswipe5031 2 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    HERESY

    • @lorestream6002
      @lorestream6002  2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Mere informative content about His goodness!

  • @TheKnivingComplex
    @TheKnivingComplex 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    is Evil?...heretic..lol great channel :P

  • @JimmySpace69
    @JimmySpace69 หลายเดือนก่อน

    the only thing necessary for the triumph of good is for evíl men like us to do nothing

  • @OrdoMallius
    @OrdoMallius 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    I am monitoring this comment section.

  • @ginghinaandrei5013
    @ginghinaandrei5013 5 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Yes. He was. Call him insane, call him idiotic, call him traumatised. He was evil.
    The Lion has been sent after advanced human civilizations so the imperium wouldn't learn there were better alternatives.

  • @maxlopolo2415
    @maxlopolo2415 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    No, just badly written.

  • @Luke-ef1px
    @Luke-ef1px 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    HERESY