I don't know... I like the room being captured with the mic. It saves you the hassle of adding tons of reverb later. Just do some parallel compression to keep it from disappearing in the mix, maybe a short echo to add a bit of width and boom! Done!
I can't remember the records but there are many alternative rock albums with that "roomy" splash on the back of the vocals, that I have always really gone for. it's a useful technique to use sometimes.
You often add reverb to create a stereo effect. Recorded + compressed, autotuned and Eq'd natural reverb recorded by a single mic (mono) sounds bad in 99% of cases. Big recording studios that use the natural reverb of the room will have seperate room mics to record the room so you can mix it in.
The room doesn't only add reverb, it will also emphasize and reduce particular frequencies. In general, a random, untreated room won't have good acoustics for a recording.
I recorded a song back in the late 90's (yes, I'm old, whatever) in which i decided the verse would be front and center, and the chorus lead vocal would sound like a backing vocal. So I tracked the chorus with a ribbon in a stairway, all hardwood stairs and high ceiling. I wish I could find a copy of that song, it came out cool and the contrast between the two different vocal sounds sounded really interesting.
Great idea man. I could imagine a very 90's vibe with that...direct vocal for verse, then a lift on the chorus vocals. Exactly like this: th-cam.com/video/grupEviVpZU/w-d-xo.html
Awesome video! Great info and advice on off access rejection and coloration, depending upon microphone type. I’ll definitely download the pdf. I’ve never even considered recording vocals without headphones in a studio environment. Thanks for all your work and openness!
You don't want to be doing too much analysis of what it sounds like until it's sitting in the track. Masking may end up making #3 compressed version sit better in a track that contains a fair amount of midrange. It will also depend on mix preference regarding amount of eq. Again, number 3 contains enough room to become the first reflections that then feed the reverb in a smoother way than the more direct version #1. Ribbon mics have been in use a long time, especially in North America. The RCA ribbon mics were in almost every studio in existence and used on a wide array of sources. Newer designs have addressed some of the shortcomings of owning one of the originals. Picking up a vintage 77 or 44 will cost an arm and at least half a leg. Ribbon mics have long been sensitive to wind, especially breath from a singer too close without additional pop filter. Their very low output meant that the preamps had to have more than 60dB of gain available and be very quiet. Extra pop filters and builtin (active) preamps have done a lot to make new ribbon mics useable in today's recording environment, but you still want to take very good care when handling any ribbon mic - truly, any mic or equipment you own will last longer to serve your needs if you treat it well. It's very good training, if you have access to a full band in a decent practice room, to try doing some recordings with single mics - dynamic, condenser, ribbon - cardioid, omni, figure 8, of the entire band and singer, getting your balance in the room by placement of the mic. Work up from there by adding 1 mic at a time, trying some of the more popular stereo methods - xy, ms, etc - and then supplement where you feel an instrument or voice is lacking in the presence you want. Leave eq out of the picture. Add a compressor first and choose the mic, pattern and placement that achieves the tone you're looking for. This will make you a better engineer, as you'll find you have less to do afterwards once "inside the box" to get a good sound. Another thing to consider. A guitar player will often show up at the session with their guitar, pedals, and an amp. Bass player will have at least their bass. Drummer may have their own kit or will adjust the studio kit and tune it how they want for what's being recorded. The singer is often overlooked with regards to their "instrument" accessories. A well trained studio singer will know how to sing into any mic to account for proximity and volume, requiring less compression than an inexperienced singer. The same practice applies to singing live. The phrase "eat the mic" is outdated and ignores the fact that most equipment now is able to be controlled far better with regards to feedback, one of the main concerns in a live situation. This allows for a far more expressive and open performance on a live stage. Compression can then be used as an effect rather than a fix.
I have no problem with "weirdness"...I gave up recording my band in isolation booths years ago to the shagrin of EVERY engineer I've worked with..."bleed" ect...now that I record myself I use these "problems" to my benefit. Reverb from an oddly shaped room isnt a problem if it sounds good. THIS sounds pretty darn good. It sounds NATURAL. Something lost in a lot of recordings today. Nevermind the BIGGEST issue...how it sounds in the mix.
Lots of great technical information! That mic sounds really good I liked position 2. Good lows mids and highs. Then I saw the traffic cone and LOL'd, looking forward to that one.
I always use a reflection filter when recording vocals through a ribbon. Makes a massive difference. The condenser doesn't need it but the ribbon does.
@@creativesoundlab I generally use a Primacoustic Voxguard. Its pretty basic as it is non adjustable. I have the cheap version of the S.e reflection filter which has the adjustable mount so you can find the sweet spot. But the end of the clamp bolt threaded so it is stuck on a stand, and the mechanism can't really support its own weight and leans to one side. The Primacoustic does the job, but changing microphones is a bit of a hassle because the microphone clamp is what holds the thing in place. To be honest though, my live room is pretty dry anyway, so I only really need the filter to block the sound coming in from the back of the mic.
@@creativesoundlab I had the Aston Halo, and I wasn't satisfied because I have loud vocals. It would work well on softer or mid vocals, but with the way that you saying or when I am singing loudly it creates a reflection in the foam of the filter that sounds terrible in the recording. Really whampy.
After listening for room ambience & only hearing it slightly in the last example, I actually wondered what it would sound like with a lot of compression. Thanks for delivering immediately afterwards. :D You're videos & especially the sound comparisons are super helpful. Thanks!
Awesome! Yeah I love seeing how the audio looks when I put the videos together. It's not something that we get to see and hear at the same time unless syncing video with the audio.
Hey Ryan, thanks for the great video once again! Nice coincidence, that your video was just uploaded as I have just recorded vocals with a ribbon last weekend and I thought: "Man, I wish there was a video from Ryan covering that topic". But good to see, how much I have already learned from your channel as we went through exactly the same steps like you. We were recording in a completely untreated, highly reflecting room in my house and we started with the distance tests first and found a good sweet spot regarding proximity effect vs roominess. Second, we were moving the mic to null out as much of the room sound. Ended up with the singer looking at the window as this was the spot with the least reflections into the the back of the mic. The results were quite pleasing but I have noticed some pretty interesting things. The song we recorded had a lot of different parts in it, so perfect for testing. First, I noticed that the sound heavily depended on the style of the singing. It sounded just great for the intimate and soft parts as well as with my wife doing the backing vocals. She has a high voice and sang softly and the result was simply perfect with a warm and silky touch. In the more aggressive parts performed by our male vocalist though, I feel there was a lot of natural compression going on, making the sound almost lifeless. Overall, I was very pleased with the results and (like you mentioned) the tracks were very easy to process via EQ and compression in the mix. Did you also notice those effects using a ribbon or was it just my cheapo-mic? Best wishes, Max
Yeah I don't noticed any compression with louder sources. That to me seems like a element of the mic, or the preamp is being pushed. Which ribbon did you use?
@@creativesoundlab I used a t.bone RB 500 directly into the preamp of my Focusrite Scarlett 2i4 (1. Gen). As I said, cheapo stuff but all I have. Might be the preamp, now that you've mentioned it, although I didn't have to push it that hard. Gain was around 50-60 %.
Great advice. My next microphone purchase will be a modern ribbon - one that compensates for the proximity effect, like the R-10 or N22. I have discovered that on my passive ribbon microphones, the back of the mic is slightly brighter, which can more suitable for vocals. I also use a Mudguard to help reduce reflections.
I can’t be the only one that liked #3 the best, especially after compression. It might be harder to mix, but come on that sounds great. I’m definitely going to be trying out my ribbon the next time I do vocals.
I found this interesting.... made me consider things I hadn't considered before regarding nulling above and below. Note: I'm a beginner trying to setup a home studio.
the proximity effect of a normal bidirectional ribbon is actually quite variable depending on how it is tuned, but you should remember that generally speaking a figure eight mic is not boosting just in the bass frequencies but also in the low midrange. You can observe this effect by comparing a u47 in "cardioid" which is really hypercardioid, to a C12, which has a better cardioid than some dynamics. The 47 has a bump nearly in the midrange 200hz ish. The C12 sounds clear partly because its proximity effect is actually below the fundamental of most vocalists, about 50hz.
The uncompressed far singing sounded like an orchestra playing in a proper auditorium. Nice, light, with a surrounding presence. Compressed made it sound wonky. Such learning going on here!
I'm a singer songwriter needing to record my song n after few months if non stop reviews in mics with so many to choose from n wanting a consistent sound for all my vocals thru out the whole of my catalog I've decided to give with a ribbon mic n a dynamic lol with inline mic boosters. I'd like to see videos on the process up the line. To the out board equipment u use to the mix. For instance would a tube preamp sound ok going in. Thinking about that as well. Great info ty
PDF isn’t available anymore any gist as to how you’d do it? Watched till the end nvm you said it. Thanks bro. Always wanted to try a ribbon for some reason. That cone into the 7b is fkin hilarious I gotta hear it
Singer has some Cornell vibe going on with his voice. I'd be interested to hear what the differences sound like between dynamic, condenser, tube and ribbons all sound like with a really hot signal and whether tube and ribbons add anything.
I actually think I like that closer vocal with the snot compressed out of it. Sounds fat, plus the room certainly starts coming through and sounds quite authentic. I felt the 2nd position was a bit dead, and the 3rd far too roomy. I think the proximity effect actually worked in this context.
So aside from the intrinsic figure 8 pattern, everything stated in regards to amount of room sound captured based on distance from the mic (critical distance), applies to every mic technology. And proximity effect affects every mic with any polar pattern that isn’t Omni. In regards to it seeming “odd” using a ribbon for vocals - as stated near the opening. I’m not really sure what you mean by that since ribbon mics were THE technology used for vocals and instruments before the development of condenser mics. Condensers solved the problem of having to re-ribbon the extremely delicate ribbon mics which could be damaged/stretched by air pressure from being moved too quickly. Dave Royer revolutionized ribbons with his R-121 which is a tank and takes insane spl and sounds fantastic when placed right at the amp or for very high spl brass, vocals etc. Now more brands are back in the ribbon market with similarly robust designs in terms of SPL because of modern neodymium magnets which help prevent stretched ribbons compared to early designs. So, Although this video doesn’t really offer anything specific or exclusive to modern ribbons it is good advice for mics in general including ribbons.
Hi Ryan... setting my keyboards up at home today in the UK and want to order a new microphone.. Will want to use it for recording in a few weeks time.. My budget is £200, suggestions? Thinking Rode NT1A? I have everything in my spare bedroom, no acoustic foam etc.. For now though, it’s just so I can play my keys rig and sing while wearing these headphones... I got a Behringer QX1832USB desk arriving today to plug everything in.. My 2 existing mics are a Heil PR35 and an Audio Technica AE6100 I’m new to home recording 😊
Very good video. I have come to the conclusion that I don't like it on vocals, which is a shame because I wanted this for guitar and vocals. Thank you.
Huh, I just tried to download your .pdf on recording vocals without cans and it sent me to a nonexistent address within your domain. Is it still available? Thanks again, either way.
Hi Ryan - this is really useful - thank you! I'm a didgeridoo player and have been using an Audio Technica AE2500 as I really like the possibilities the dynamic/condenser pair offers for attack/body and compression/eq, both live and in the studio. I'm looking at ribbon mics for live and recording my new tracks- and the axe mount for pairing the R-121 (+dbooster) with a funk 57 (+launcher) looks killer. However I'm concerned that the air movement at he end of the didgeridoo would be too much for the R121 ribbon mic. Some help here would be great! Could make this a YT video if you think this has legs? Peace.
Not sure about all this mic biz but kept staring at that bandana...I could not stop thinking the buzzer is about to go off for the cookies in the oven.
What’s the issue with getting too much low end if you’re able to just EQ the low out after? Wasn’t one of the benefits of the ribbon how well it can be EQed?
are all ribbons figure 8? i'm considering building the Bumblebee Pro RM-6 and would love to be able to track (trumpet) without headphones, by putting a monitor speaker in the null spot...
I’m looking to get Royer 10 and pair it with the Grace M101. I’d love to get some good clean vocals that I can really sculpt in logic . I record vox in my small apt , with an iso shield. You think it’s worth the investment? Also , looking to record loud ear bleeding distorted guitars ala MBV
How is the falloff of ribbon microphones compared to dynamic and condensor microphones? I am looking to record vocals in a less than ideal situation that will reject background noise. Dynamic mics are known for having a fast falloff and I am hoping there is a ribbon microphone that has this characteristic. Any help will be appreciated.
For that kind of situation an SM7b is ideal. Ribbons will pick up more room because it’s still figure 8. The Soyuz launcher transforms the already great SM7b into something very very nice.
Have you ever seen damage to a ribbon mic? Most of what I've heard about them is how fragile they supposedly are. Do you worry much about bursts of air into the mic, or double-checking phantom power is off? Or do you feel it's just the same amount of hassle as with any studio mic?
For the active ribbons you don't have to worry about that so much. - It's the same rules as any condenser mic...just turn it off when unplugging/plugging in. For passive ribbons, yes, you want to leave the phantom power off. This is only a problem if you have an interface that turns power on for multiple mic inputs at once, or if using a patch bay and you accidentally normalize a ribbon to a preamp that has phantom via a plug that is sliding in/out. For air, yes you need to protect the mic as best as you can. These ribbons and most others will have some pretty good protection around the mic. I can't even see the ribbon in these N22s, but I can see right in with the N8s.
Ribbon mics are fantastic and have been shelved and disregarded by recording studios for the simple reason that they were/are viewed as old and out of fashion. But they are wonderful microphones, ESPECIALLY for vocals. But they're great for drums too. They can basically handle any SPL you care to throw at them.
what would you think and have you experienced recording with a ribbon and a large diaphragm static mic at the same time ? Ribbon will bring nice lows and mids, the static will bring definition and "air" ?
I have done this with acoustic guitar with good results. Seems like a natural combo to me. Next I plan to try it with the ribbon and LDC in the same spot, i.e., two different colors from the same point in space. Looking forward to finding out.
Hello, thank you so much for the video. Btw I put my email address on the link you gave but the confirmation e mail hasn´t arrived yet. Thank you again.
I record vocals using my MXL ribbon all the time, its my go to for electric guitar and vocals, if not I go with my rode nt1 condenser, between those I get nearly everything
@@creativesoundlab I'd say around your second or third furthest examples. My room has minimal reflections, ghetto sound treated basement. My MXL is the R44 I think, there's an article on upgrading the transformer which I did. But I use a cloud lifter too. Great vids keep up the good work!
@@creativesoundlab , I WAS i was told All preamps use phantom power, unless you buy A ribbon mic preamp. So there will always be a chance with interfaces
I just tried that, and love the DBX 904 for that. It's like you can't hear it and you can use the ratios to help the gate seem super smooth and not noticable.
![ถามตรงๆ กับ อาจตุพร ทำไม ประเทศไทย ใครเป็นนายก ก็โดนด่า พอออกเเล้วคนคิดถึง!!?? l [Nickynachat]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/3YFLMXxBGAs/mqdefault.jpg)
I don't know... I like the room being captured with the mic. It saves you the hassle of adding tons of reverb later. Just do some parallel compression to keep it from disappearing in the mix, maybe a short echo to add a bit of width and boom! Done!
I can't remember the records but there are many alternative rock albums with that "roomy" splash on the back of the vocals, that I have always really gone for. it's a useful technique to use sometimes.
You often add reverb to create a stereo effect. Recorded + compressed, autotuned and Eq'd natural reverb recorded by a single mic (mono) sounds bad in 99% of cases.
Big recording studios that use the natural reverb of the room will have seperate room mics to record the room so you can mix it in.
That's also assuming you're recording in a good room haha
@Club Soda any mic will work with a voice and skill like Frank's
The room doesn't only add reverb, it will also emphasize and reduce particular frequencies.
In general, a random, untreated room won't have good acoustics for a recording.
Great lesson on ribbon mics! You addressed loads of vital concepts in an easy to understand way, and all in less than 9 min!
Thanks! Really appreciate that!
I recorded a song back in the late 90's (yes, I'm old, whatever) in which i decided the verse would be front and center, and the chorus lead vocal would sound like a backing vocal. So I tracked the chorus with a ribbon in a stairway, all hardwood stairs and high ceiling. I wish I could find a copy of that song, it came out cool and the contrast between the two different vocal sounds sounded really interesting.
Great idea man. I could imagine a very 90's vibe with that...direct vocal for verse, then a lift on the chorus vocals. Exactly like this: th-cam.com/video/grupEviVpZU/w-d-xo.html
@@creativesoundlab for a moment there I thought you might link to this classic th-cam.com/video/JXnoWb88Jr4/w-d-xo.html
Awesome video! Great info and advice on off access rejection and coloration, depending upon microphone type.
I’ll definitely download the pdf. I’ve never even considered recording vocals without headphones in a studio environment.
Thanks for all your work and openness!
You don't want to be doing too much analysis of what it sounds like until it's sitting in the track. Masking may end up making #3 compressed version sit better in a track that contains a fair amount of midrange. It will also depend on mix preference regarding amount of eq. Again, number 3 contains enough room to become the first reflections that then feed the reverb in a smoother way than the more direct version #1.
Ribbon mics have been in use a long time, especially in North America. The RCA ribbon mics were in almost every studio in existence and used on a wide array of sources. Newer designs have addressed some of the shortcomings of owning one of the originals. Picking up a vintage 77 or 44 will cost an arm and at least half a leg. Ribbon mics have long been sensitive to wind, especially breath from a singer too close without additional pop filter. Their very low output meant that the preamps had to have more than 60dB of gain available and be very quiet. Extra pop filters and builtin (active) preamps have done a lot to make new ribbon mics useable in today's recording environment, but you still want to take very good care when handling any ribbon mic - truly, any mic or equipment you own will last longer to serve your needs if you treat it well.
It's very good training, if you have access to a full band in a decent practice room, to try doing some recordings with single mics - dynamic, condenser, ribbon - cardioid, omni, figure 8, of the entire band and singer, getting your balance in the room by placement of the mic. Work up from there by adding 1 mic at a time, trying some of the more popular stereo methods - xy, ms, etc - and then supplement where you feel an instrument or voice is lacking in the presence you want. Leave eq out of the picture. Add a compressor first and choose the mic, pattern and placement that achieves the tone you're looking for. This will make you a better engineer, as you'll find you have less to do afterwards once "inside the box" to get a good sound.
Another thing to consider. A guitar player will often show up at the session with their guitar, pedals, and an amp. Bass player will have at least their bass. Drummer may have their own kit or will adjust the studio kit and tune it how they want for what's being recorded. The singer is often overlooked with regards to their "instrument" accessories. A well trained studio singer will know how to sing into any mic to account for proximity and volume, requiring less compression than an inexperienced singer. The same practice applies to singing live. The phrase "eat the mic" is outdated and ignores the fact that most equipment now is able to be controlled far better with regards to feedback, one of the main concerns in a live situation. This allows for a far more expressive and open performance on a live stage. Compression can then be used as an effect rather than a fix.
Every vocalist should have a cajon player in the room at all times.......lol
Haha that's the funniest thing I've heard in a while.
Scott Baxendale Or *two* players, so people can at least say that you have the cajones for that,....😋😄😉😎
And a cat in his/her lap.
I have no problem with "weirdness"...I gave up recording my band in isolation booths years ago to the shagrin of EVERY engineer I've worked with..."bleed" ect...now that I record myself I use these "problems" to my benefit. Reverb from an oddly shaped room isnt a problem if it sounds good. THIS sounds pretty darn good. It sounds NATURAL. Something lost in a lot of recordings today. Nevermind the BIGGEST issue...how it sounds in the mix.
Lots of great technical information! That mic sounds really good I liked position 2. Good lows mids and highs. Then I saw the traffic cone and LOL'd, looking forward to that one.
Gosh I think you are the first one to comment on the traffic cone. It literally took 24 hrs for someone to say something.
This is such a fantastic video. I’m usually too lazy to comment, but your scientific approach should be rewarded with at the least a comment!
Thanks Jonathan! Glad you are here and the views and likes are just as important. So you've helped quite a bit already.
I'm planning to invest in a ribbon mic soon. Thanks for the details.
You want be disappointed.
I always use a reflection filter when recording vocals through a ribbon. Makes a massive difference.
The condenser doesn't need it but the ribbon does.
Which reflection filter do you use? I've seen mixed reviews/tests of a couple.
@@creativesoundlab I generally use a Primacoustic Voxguard. Its pretty basic as it is non adjustable.
I have the cheap version of the S.e reflection filter which has the adjustable mount so you can find the sweet spot. But the end of the clamp bolt threaded so it is stuck on a stand, and the mechanism can't really support its own weight and leans to one side.
The Primacoustic does the job, but changing microphones is a bit of a hassle because the microphone clamp is what holds the thing in place.
To be honest though, my live room is pretty dry anyway, so I only really need the filter to block the sound coming in from the back of the mic.
@@creativesoundlab I had the Aston Halo, and I wasn't satisfied because I have loud vocals. It would work well on softer or mid vocals, but with the way that you saying or when I am singing loudly it creates a reflection in the foam of the filter that sounds terrible in the recording. Really whampy.
After listening for room ambience & only hearing it slightly in the last example, I actually wondered what it would sound like with a lot of compression. Thanks for delivering immediately afterwards. :D
You're videos & especially the sound comparisons are super helpful. Thanks!
Awesome! Yeah I love seeing how the audio looks when I put the videos together. It's not something that we get to see and hear at the same time unless syncing video with the audio.
Hey Ryan, thanks for the great video once again! Nice coincidence, that your video was just uploaded as I have just recorded vocals with a ribbon last weekend and I thought: "Man, I wish there was a video from Ryan covering that topic". But good to see, how much I have already learned from your channel as we went through exactly the same steps like you. We were recording in a completely untreated, highly reflecting room in my house and we started with the distance tests first and found a good sweet spot regarding proximity effect vs roominess. Second, we were moving the mic to null out as much of the room sound. Ended up with the singer looking at the window as this was the spot with the least reflections into the the back of the mic. The results were quite pleasing but I have noticed some pretty interesting things. The song we recorded had a lot of different parts in it, so perfect for testing. First, I noticed that the sound heavily depended on the style of the singing. It sounded just great for the intimate and soft parts as well as with my wife doing the backing vocals. She has a high voice and sang softly and the result was simply perfect with a warm and silky touch. In the more aggressive parts performed by our male vocalist though, I feel there was a lot of natural compression going on, making the sound almost lifeless. Overall, I was very pleased with the results and (like you mentioned) the tracks were very easy to process via EQ and compression in the mix.
Did you also notice those effects using a ribbon or was it just my cheapo-mic?
Best wishes, Max
Yeah I don't noticed any compression with louder sources. That to me seems like a element of the mic, or the preamp is being pushed. Which ribbon did you use?
@@creativesoundlab I used a t.bone RB 500 directly into the preamp of my Focusrite Scarlett 2i4 (1. Gen). As I said, cheapo stuff but all I have.
Might be the preamp, now that you've mentioned it, although I didn't have to push it that hard. Gain was around 50-60 %.
Nice video! Never knew that a ribbon mic could sound that great for recording vox, also depends on the mic of course. Now I gotta try the VR1 and VR2
Great video! I’d love to see what the vocals would sound like with a reflection shield while using a ribbon mic.
Good idea.
I second that!
Great advice. My next microphone purchase will be a modern ribbon - one that compensates for the proximity effect, like the R-10 or N22. I have discovered that on my passive ribbon microphones, the back of the mic is slightly brighter, which can more suitable for vocals. I also use a Mudguard to help reduce reflections.
There's a video on my channel comparing the ST170 to the R10! Definitely love the R10, my go to guitar mic
I can’t be the only one that liked #3 the best, especially after compression. It might be harder to mix, but come on that sounds great. I’m definitely going to be trying out my ribbon the next time I do vocals.
If you recorded like that in a dead vocal booth would the tone change? Are the early reflections a part of that sound, do you think?
Before heavy compression, #2 seemed the best, after compression #1 definitely is the best.
I found this interesting.... made me consider things I hadn't considered before regarding nulling above and below. Note: I'm a beginner trying to setup a home studio.
the proximity effect of a normal bidirectional ribbon is actually quite variable depending on how it is tuned, but you should remember that generally speaking a figure eight mic is not boosting just in the bass frequencies but also in the low midrange. You can observe this effect by comparing a u47 in "cardioid" which is really hypercardioid, to a C12, which has a better cardioid than some dynamics. The 47 has a bump nearly in the midrange 200hz ish. The C12 sounds clear partly because its proximity effect is actually below the fundamental of most vocalists, about 50hz.
Thanks for giving us the clues about Ribbon Mikes!! This helps me lots:)
The uncompressed far singing sounded like an orchestra playing in a proper auditorium. Nice, light, with a surrounding presence. Compressed made it sound wonky.
Such learning going on here!
Yeah and that was REALLY compressed but only to really prove the point of how much the room can come into the mix.
I'm a singer songwriter needing to record my song n after few months if non stop reviews in mics with so many to choose from n wanting a consistent sound for all my vocals thru out the whole of my catalog I've decided to give with a ribbon mic n a dynamic lol with inline mic boosters. I'd like to see videos on the process up the line. To the out board equipment u use to the mix. For instance would a tube preamp sound ok going in. Thinking about that as well. Great info ty
PDF isn’t available anymore any gist as to how you’d do it? Watched till the end nvm you said it. Thanks bro. Always wanted to try a ribbon for some reason. That cone into the 7b is fkin hilarious I gotta hear it
Singer has some Cornell vibe going on with his voice. I'd be interested to hear what the differences sound like between dynamic, condenser, tube and ribbons all sound like with a really hot signal and whether tube and ribbons add anything.
Yeah, I remember using a bright LDC on him once and he really needed the rich lows to help balance out the sound.
Awesome descriptions and examples. Got yourself a new subscriber. 👍🏻🙂
can I get that pdf tho? link didn't work
I actually think I like that closer vocal with the snot compressed out of it. Sounds fat, plus the room certainly starts coming through and sounds quite authentic. I felt the 2nd position was a bit dead, and the 3rd far too roomy. I think the proximity effect actually worked in this context.
yup I agree
So aside from the intrinsic figure 8 pattern, everything stated in regards to amount of room sound captured based on distance from the mic (critical distance), applies to every mic technology. And proximity effect affects every mic with any polar pattern that isn’t Omni. In regards to it seeming “odd” using a ribbon for vocals - as stated near the opening. I’m not really sure what you mean by that since ribbon mics were THE technology used for vocals and instruments before the development of condenser mics.
Condensers solved the problem of having to re-ribbon the extremely delicate ribbon mics which could be damaged/stretched by air pressure from being moved too quickly. Dave Royer revolutionized ribbons with his R-121 which is a tank and takes insane spl and sounds fantastic when placed right at the amp or for very high spl brass, vocals etc. Now more brands are back in the ribbon market with similarly robust designs in terms of SPL because of modern neodymium magnets which help prevent stretched ribbons compared to early designs.
So, Although this video doesn’t really offer anything specific or exclusive to modern ribbons it is good advice for mics in general including ribbons.
This is really informative! Thank you!
Great video! Thanks!
Great video. I'm thinking of using an MXL R144 to record some jazz vocals. Would you say the six-inch rule applies to this mike too?
Lot of good advices, thanks a lot !
Thank you for offering your great experiences! BTW, where can I find the video of the SM7B and red corn?!
Great video. Thanks bro.
what are your EQ settings and compression settings on these vocals?
Brilliant and concise explanation. Learnt a lot. Thank#:)
Very, very nicely explained!!
Glad it was helpful!
I love your channel man! Very smart and inventive. Lets be audio brothers.
Yeah man sure! Looks like you actually put stuff back together when you mess with it...not true here.
@@creativesoundlab For sure. I try!
Hi Ryan... setting my keyboards up at home today in the UK and want to order a new microphone..
Will want to use it for recording in a few weeks time.. My budget is £200, suggestions?
Thinking Rode NT1A? I have everything in my spare bedroom, no acoustic foam etc..
For now though, it’s just so I can play my keys rig and sing while wearing these headphones...
I got a Behringer QX1832USB desk arriving today to plug everything in..
My 2 existing mics are a Heil PR35 and an Audio Technica AE6100
I’m new to home recording 😊
Love love love this channel, please do keep the videos coming :)
Killer video! Subscribed!
Very good video. I have come to the conclusion that I don't like it on vocals, which is a shame because I wanted this for guitar and vocals. Thank you.
Very useful, thanks
Huh, I just tried to download your .pdf on recording vocals without cans and it sent me to a nonexistent address within your domain.
Is it still available?
Thanks again, either way.
Would the Audio-Technica 4081 (ribbon) be good for vocals or even voice over?
Hello, thanks for the info. BTW I applied for the PDF but i didnt get the email.Thanks
Hi Ryan - this is really useful - thank you! I'm a didgeridoo player and have been using an Audio Technica AE2500 as I really like the possibilities the dynamic/condenser pair offers for attack/body and compression/eq, both live and in the studio. I'm looking at ribbon mics for live and recording my new tracks- and the axe mount for pairing the R-121 (+dbooster) with a funk 57 (+launcher) looks killer. However I'm concerned that the air movement at he end of the didgeridoo would be too much for the R121 ribbon mic. Some help here would be great! Could make this a YT video if you think this has legs? Peace.
There are other ribbon options out there for sure - but for close mic on stage? Looking forward to your reply! Peace.
Not sure about all this mic biz but kept staring at that bandana...I could not stop thinking the buzzer is about to go off for the cookies in the oven.
WOW!! What a great voice!
Curious if a ribbon will work for two vocals and acoustic instruments playing and harmonizing together at same time?
Michael Yugo search youtube for recording in the 50s no harmonizing there but a lot of info on using one ribbon on multiple sources.
@@BoboButYouCanCallMeTom Everly Brothers? Bluegrass Bands?
What’s the issue with getting too much low end if you’re able to just EQ the low out after? Wasn’t one of the benefits of the ribbon how well it can be EQed?
are all ribbons figure 8? i'm considering building the Bumblebee Pro RM-6 and would love to be able to track (trumpet) without headphones, by putting a monitor speaker in the null spot...
Id really like to hear how it reacts to sibilance. Nice video, closest sound better.
I’m looking to get Royer 10 and pair it with the Grace M101. I’d love to get some good clean vocals that I can really sculpt in logic . I record vox in my small apt , with an iso shield. You think it’s worth the investment? Also , looking to record loud ear bleeding distorted guitars ala MBV
Great video
great. thanks!
We get it! You’re wild and free!!!
What ever happened with that cloudlifter video you teased at the end?
But??? aren't you supposed to use the Royer 121 right there by your sm57?
How is the falloff of ribbon microphones compared to dynamic and condensor microphones? I am looking to record vocals in a less than ideal situation that will reject background noise. Dynamic mics are known for having a fast falloff and I am hoping there is a ribbon microphone that has this characteristic. Any help will be appreciated.
For that kind of situation an SM7b is ideal. Ribbons will pick up more room because it’s still figure 8. The Soyuz launcher transforms the already great SM7b into something very very nice.
Small diaphragm condenser and a ribbon mic always sound amazing... You have to get the positioning right or there are nasty phase issues though.
Have you ever seen damage to a ribbon mic? Most of what I've heard about them is how fragile they supposedly are.
Do you worry much about bursts of air into the mic, or double-checking phantom power is off?
Or do you feel it's just the same amount of hassle as with any studio mic?
For the active ribbons you don't have to worry about that so much. - It's the same rules as any condenser mic...just turn it off when unplugging/plugging in. For passive ribbons, yes, you want to leave the phantom power off. This is only a problem if you have an interface that turns power on for multiple mic inputs at once, or if using a patch bay and you accidentally normalize a ribbon to a preamp that has phantom via a plug that is sliding in/out. For air, yes you need to protect the mic as best as you can. These ribbons and most others will have some pretty good protection around the mic. I can't even see the ribbon in these N22s, but I can see right in with the N8s.
Okay so no. 3 will catch you the acoustics
I have an issue with mine not picking up all sound or cutting out lower sounds. Also very low output. Is it my interface possibly? Someone help!
Perhaps a bad cable or a bad volume knob on the interface?
@creativesoundlab I'm using a sound card not an interface 🥹
Ribbon mics are fantastic and have been shelved and disregarded by recording studios for the simple reason that they were/are viewed as old and out of fashion. But they are wonderful microphones, ESPECIALLY for vocals. But they're great for drums too. They can basically handle any SPL you care to throw at them.
Do you have any opinions about which ribbons are especially great for vocals? And/or over-rated or bad ones? Thx.
what would you think and have you experienced recording with a ribbon and a large diaphragm static mic at the same time ? Ribbon will bring nice lows and mids, the static will bring definition and "air" ?
I have done this with acoustic guitar with good results. Seems like a natural combo to me. Next I plan to try it with the ribbon and LDC in the same spot, i.e., two different colors from the same point in space. Looking forward to finding out.
Sad to see that the link to the pdf on recording vocals without headphones is broken (error 404)
I was just looking into this PDF actually. let me check.
II is highly necessary.
Are you located in Texas in a blue building I'm a truck driver I think I drove past your studio off the highway
This is great! I hate headphones and deaf in right ear
Where's that traffic cone video?
Hello, thank you so much for the video. Btw I put my email address on the link you gave but the confirmation e mail hasn´t arrived yet. Thank you again.
greatest records ever recorded were done with ribbons. listen to the early chess and cbs recordings. from the 1950's. UNEATABLE!
Yeah, they are just easy mics to work with when the engineer knows how to place a mic. That was key in those old recordings.
I record vocals using my MXL ribbon all the time, its my go to for electric guitar and vocals, if not I go with my rode nt1 condenser, between those I get nearly everything
Mxl mics are great to mic cabs.
Very cool. What kind of distance for vocals do you typically use?
@@creativesoundlab I'd say around your second or third furthest examples. My room has minimal reflections, ghetto sound treated basement. My MXL is the R44 I think, there's an article on upgrading the transformer which I did. But I use a cloud lifter too. Great vids keep up the good work!
I blew out a ribbon mic while singing a Devin Townsend vocal cover
Will the Apollo twin bust the Woodpecker ribbon mic?
No why would it? if passive then don’t use phantom.
@@creativesoundlab , I WAS i was told All preamps use phantom power, unless you buy A ribbon mic preamp. So there will always be a chance with interfaces
I don't know about you guys but I record my vocals using a noise gate.
I just tried that, and love the DBX 904 for that. It's like you can't hear it and you can use the ratios to help the gate seem super smooth and not noticable.
Creative Sound Lab It's amazing ya gotta love it.
Closest, uncompressed, sounded compressed.
You habe some 1khz resonance in your audio.
Why the heck is he singing into a traffic cone?! xD
3rd lol
why are two pop filters used?
Ribbons are really sensitive to wind blasts and each pop filter is good but not perfect.
FIRST!