Brian, I am surprised this worked without ruining the die grinder but you made it work. I think I would have experimented the first time with a pair of stainless steel hose clamps to prove the technique and then made clamp-on brackets - no wielding. You will need much better stones and use a clamped-down diamond dresser to true the grinding wheel (no vibration). Take very light passes and the final pass set for removing 0.0005" and wait for several passes to spark-out (dim the lights if necessary to see this). You will create a fantastic finish. Thanks for showing this, Paul
1. From around minute 9:50 on I don't know if it was the camera angle but seems like the grinder Spindle is not parallel with the center of the lathe spindle, besides the obvious issues explained by others if your stone is removing material at an angle skewed from the rotating material you will never get a good finish regardless of what material you are grinding. Try using an indicator along the top and side of a hardened dowel pin tight on the grinder chuck to verify. If it's off try some shim stock under the back of holder to get it aligned. 2. For the best finish the stone should turn opposite the material being ground. 3. Seems like you are not on the part centerline, this may affect the quality of the finish in spite of it being 1018. Thanks for sharing, I don't think I ever expected that housing to withstand the welding, good job.
Grinding, polishing, both the same as sharpening or lapping. Start coarse finish fine. I recently turned a kitchen knife from a reasonably sharp chopping tool into an instrument for shaving. Started with a coarse carborundum oilstone to true the edge through Kansas wetstone, Welsh slate slurry and finally a ceramic Japanese 10000 grit wetstone. It's now sharp enough to shave thin paper slivers (not that I have a need for much cut paper in the kitchen - but it seems a popular YT sport!) The final move was to rag buff the blade with a stainless white polishing compound. It has a mirror finish and glides through anything, including my thumb ... never felt a thing. I tried with an old cheap blade, the softer steel wouldn't hold either the edge or take a finish ... You have to keep the stone lubricated - lots of water or oil as appropriate. The alternative is wet and dry, but the same rough to smooth applies ... speed helps but it's not enough on it's own.
Brian -- I have tried my Dremel adaptation and so far reckon my stone is way too course... plus as others have mentioned, probably 1018 not ideal compared with something harder. Brave man doing the tack joints - not that easy but looks like you got a result. I do think stone quality is certainly a major key factor. I have a lot of experimenting to do yet.
+ChrisB257 i looked at doing something with a dremel, but the shaft is so small, and not very ridgid, as for the brave man tacks, well I've never been scared to mess something up, thanks for watching chris
It's a miracle. You surely get an A+ for trying. I think about lapping valves and claying a paint job. Valves are harder and paint is softer, but they both have something in common; WET. 1018 has a very loose bonding, si my experiment would first be a finish file with valve grounding compound. And if it gets close, but no cigar, using more compound and actually turn the file backward, or use a piece of hardened flat stock like a file. If it gets closer, but not polished, then maybe some Emery with finish compound. If you still want to try the die grinder more maybe use a very fine flap sanding bit in place of a rock. That rock looked a little course IMHO. 1018's never gonna look like chrome, cause it's like gravel glued together, but the tops of grain will shine up purdy(pretty). Thanks for sharing your experiment, BS. PS - Nice Shop and it's cleaner than Einstein's work place.
I would try a flapper wheel made for the die grinder with flaps of sand paper on a mandrel. Go for progessively finer and you should get there. Good Video. Doug and Mr. Duke Hello Zeke.
I find 1018 to be the worst choice if I need a good surface finish. If your application permits, try a different alloy. I like the idea of adapting the grinder to the toolpost. Nice!
You're the first one I've seen trying to weld a air grinder's body.... lol Even more surprised it worked... Hardened steel will give a better finish, experiment with wheels, softer wheels for harder materials, harder wheels for softer... Don't forget to precision dress the wheel so it hits the part with less vibration, you may use the lathe advance to make a regular finish. Have fun experimenting... ;)
+pierre beaudry Well leave it to me to try something silly, but "I am what I am and that's all that I am" said Popeye still trying to figure out how to dress the wheel in a precise way thanks for watching PB
Yo Brian I like the adapting air grinder .And I agree with Doug flapper wheel made for the die grinder with flaps of sand paper . Let us see how it worked please. Dave
Maybe you should try dressing the stone, it looked like it was only hitting on half the diameter of the stone, if you don't have a diamond dresser you could chuck up a piece of scrap carbide and dress it that way
+Stacey Wellborn I was just going to ask how if the only thing I have is a diamond impregnated dresser for my bench grinder, thanks for the advice, I'll give it a try. thanks for watching
I would true your wheel and reduce the surface contact of the wheel by stepping it, coolant wouldn't hurt and try it on something harder, 1018 does not grind well and it doesn't need to be ground, that is like eating peas with a butter knife.
I haven't used mine to try to get finishes on the OD (I set mine up for grinding chuck jaws. I wouldn't have made all of the short back and forth motions, but set it up more like turning where you do the whole length and feed in tenths at a time. Also, one other way you could have mounted the grinder if you have a boring bar holder which will fit one of the extended neck air grinders, you can hold it by the neck in the boring bar holder. I think the one I got was 7/8".
You relied on the accuracy of a pnuematic tool for grinding your lathe chuck? Did you ever check runout or concentricity of the pnuematic tool? Also they tend to vibrate apart I don’t see them being a wise choice unless you’re buying a precision air spindle.
Brian, polishing 1018 is hard, it is too gummy, try some stainless. Also, get some decent wheels. the bigger the diameter, the faster the SFM. Those pink things are crap, get some good alox. Also, you should dress the stone so it cuts equally around the circumference. Finally, dont expect miscalls, those bearings in the die grinder are not precision.
+Cuppa Joe yeah Joe I think you are right, expecting to much from 1018, also not expecting much from a $15 grinder either, this was just a test since I have no experience with a die grinder. thanks for watching
from looking at your stone one side getting dark and the other side still pink, your wheel is out of ballance it's just cutting one-sided , you have to true it up. and your finish will only get as smooth as the grit size. need to work your way up to finer and finer grits as you polish it
Mrpete222, an ex school teacher, showed 2 years ago, tip 186 I think it was on how to get 1018, copper, even lead very very smooth with a simple cutter that is about 1/1,000 of the work and effort you've put in. edit: www.icstation.com/sr505-mini-infrared-motion-sensor-infrared-detector-module-p-5296.html I found it so I thought I'd insert it in here. But it was somewhat fun to watch parts of it -- has the proper Time Allen "More Power" spirit to it. I have been thinking about doing a similar thing for hogging out wood on a wood lathe. I'd like to hook up a full circular saw running against the direction of rpm and it should hog wood like a dozen beavers going at all altogether at once! (wish I had a welder, almost all my jigs are wood. BTW table leaves are extremely HQ and dimensionally stable wood -- soo good that it is used for the main beam of a house in the more commonly known name of LVL-- Laminated Veneer Lumber. You might consider that when you don't want to burn something out. It'd be more than strong enough even though I know people love AL and steel. I dunno why people get so stuck to it though -- wood is awesome and easy to work. I mainly mess with steel when I need to sharpen a cutter & have plenty of diamond for carbide tips.) I think you should have tried a polishing tip with appropriate compound on the air die grinder. Isn't that shafts get polished before going into a bronze bushing anyway? I made a small dremel one out of leather discs glued together and silver polish on it when I had lots of dad's really old WWII silver to polish. I spray lacquered it clear afterwards so I would never have to do those jobs again, either. I'm no fool!
+BikingMNViking Thanks for the informative post, that link went to a LED driver or something. I was into wood working for many years, many jigs for the table saw and all sorts of jointer, routers, etc, I moved to metal a couple years ago, thanks for watching. Brian
Every die grinder I’ve had in hand in the past 25 years regardless of brand have had noticeable play in the collet. Unless you’re swapping all the bearings out and shimming internals I don’t see how you can reliable do this with any accuracy.
I'm sire you have become a pro at it by not but I would go simple first. turn on your lathe and get some sheets of different sandpapers start with a 60 and step up from there. I assure you that it can be polished but it will be a pain in the ass. also it doesn't have to be perfectly smooth because a polishing compound will fill in the imperfections as long as they arent to bad. I've polished wheels, motorcycle frames ect great ingenuity though
If a regular grind set up works on a lathe, There is no reason a die grinder should not work, Tighten up the bearings in the die grinder, make sure the shaft does not move lengthwise. Dress the stone, and use a very light feed, into stock and move X direction very slowly, A flexible or soft grinding material may also improve the finish, as this does not create a solid pressure on the surface your grinding, A lubricant might also help. These die grinders are a grinding machine and no reason for them not to work,
1) the die grinder stone shown in the video isn't the best out there - they have grit and bond grading identification system for things like surface grinder wheels (also liquid cooling in use of same); carbide burr is more appropriate to the hand held.; 2) magnetic base diamond tipped wheel dressing of the stone...precision depends on the rotational tolerance of the grinder tool...way less than a couple thou @ a whack the wheel dress and 'finish off'. 3) metal believe it or not is just like wood finish > homogenized the surface...various methods. tom lipton / ox tool video shows one instance of how the gauge surface of a granite inspection plate is certified ought to give you some ideas for the basic workshop application.years ago as a student machinist...engineering dept. task was mirror finishing a turned center section of hot rolled bolts (6-8") that then got stretched to failure and observed under an electron microscope. in the end since I had literally hundreds of them as batch proofs to do...carbide radius cutter in the lathe, then a series of files and abrasive papering gave the best result for the amount of time and effort required...n.i.c. the end result finger pointing of why they never sold on the open market other than railroad industry.the paper towel blind bearing removeal video - way thumbs up; tapered bearings where used because of the superior thrust loading they have over the spares you had thought to use as replacements.
That's a good idea. I have seen some company that sells brackets for a Dremel tool to be used as a tool post grinder somewhere.
Brian,
I am surprised this worked without ruining the die grinder but you made it work.
I think I would have experimented the first time with a pair of stainless steel hose clamps to prove the technique and then made clamp-on brackets - no wielding. You will need much better stones and use a clamped-down diamond dresser to true the grinding wheel (no vibration). Take very light passes and the final pass set for removing 0.0005" and wait for several passes to spark-out (dim the lights if necessary to see this). You will create a fantastic finish.
Thanks for showing this, Paul
1. From around minute 9:50 on I don't know if it was the camera angle but seems like the grinder Spindle is not parallel with the center of the lathe spindle, besides the obvious issues explained by others if your stone is removing material at an angle skewed from the rotating material you will never get a good finish regardless of what material you are grinding. Try using an indicator along the top and side of a hardened dowel pin tight on the grinder chuck to verify. If it's off try some shim stock under the back of holder to get it aligned. 2. For the best finish the stone should turn opposite the material being ground. 3. Seems like you are not on the part centerline, this may affect the quality of the finish in spite of it being 1018. Thanks for sharing, I don't think I ever expected that housing to withstand the welding, good job.
Grinding, polishing, both the same as sharpening or lapping. Start coarse finish fine.
I recently turned a kitchen knife from a reasonably sharp chopping tool into an instrument for shaving. Started with a coarse carborundum oilstone to true the edge through Kansas wetstone, Welsh slate slurry and finally a ceramic Japanese 10000 grit wetstone.
It's now sharp enough to shave thin paper slivers (not that I have a need for much cut paper in the kitchen - but it seems a popular YT sport!)
The final move was to rag buff the blade with a stainless white polishing compound. It has a mirror finish and glides through anything, including my thumb ... never felt a thing.
I tried with an old cheap blade, the softer steel wouldn't hold either the edge or take a finish ...
You have to keep the stone lubricated - lots of water or oil as appropriate.
The alternative is wet and dry, but the same rough to smooth applies ... speed helps but it's not enough on it's own.
Brian -- I have tried my Dremel adaptation and so far reckon my stone is way too course... plus as others have mentioned, probably 1018 not ideal compared with something harder.
Brave man doing the tack joints - not that easy but looks like you got a result.
I do think stone quality is certainly a major key factor. I have a lot of experimenting to do yet.
+ChrisB257 i looked at doing something with a dremel, but the shaft is so small, and not very ridgid, as for the brave man tacks, well I've never been scared to mess something up, thanks for watching chris
Maybe you should experiment with more stones. I think maybe a thinner one might do better and for sure a fine grit.
It's a miracle. You surely get an A+ for trying.
I think about lapping valves and claying a paint job. Valves are harder and paint is softer, but they both have something in common; WET. 1018 has a very loose bonding, si my experiment would first be a finish file with valve grounding compound. And if it gets close, but no cigar, using more compound and actually turn the file backward, or use a piece of hardened flat stock like a file. If it gets closer, but not polished, then maybe some Emery with finish compound.
If you still want to try the die grinder more maybe use a very fine flap sanding bit in place of a rock. That rock looked a little course IMHO. 1018's never gonna look like chrome, cause it's like gravel glued together, but the tops of grain will shine up purdy(pretty).
Thanks for sharing your experiment, BS.
PS - Nice Shop and it's cleaner than Einstein's work place.
Dang, Dave beat me to it. Guess I should read all the comments before using my foot. That is sticking it in the mouth or elsewhere.
I would try a flapper wheel made for the die grinder with flaps of sand paper on a mandrel. Go for progessively finer and you should get there. Good Video. Doug and Mr. Duke Hello Zeke.
+Douglas Thompson good advice, I'll try it
I find 1018 to be the worst choice if I need a good surface finish. If your application permits, try a different alloy.
I like the idea of adapting the grinder to the toolpost. Nice!
+jfpinkston Thanks for watching and for the kind words
Hey Brian,
Try putting mini flap wheels in your die grinder. Should give a good finish.
Thats a good idea dave, I'll try it. thanks for watching
You're the first one I've seen trying to weld a air grinder's body.... lol
Even more surprised it worked...
Hardened steel will give a better finish, experiment with wheels, softer wheels for harder materials, harder wheels for softer...
Don't forget to precision dress the wheel so it hits the part with less vibration, you may use the lathe advance to make a regular finish.
Have fun experimenting... ;)
+pierre beaudry Well leave it to me to try something silly, but "I am what I am and that's all that I am" said Popeye still trying to figure out how to dress the wheel in a precise way thanks for watching PB
Guess I'll have to stay tuned and watch.... lol
Brian thanks for the video i have no suggestions but i enjoyed watching
Yo Brian I like the adapting air grinder .And I agree with Doug flapper wheel made for the die grinder with flaps of sand paper . Let us see how it worked please. Dave
Maybe you should try dressing the stone, it looked like it was only hitting on half the diameter of the stone, if you don't have a diamond dresser you could chuck up a piece of scrap carbide and dress it that way
+Stacey Wellborn I was just going to ask how if the only thing I have is a diamond impregnated dresser for my bench grinder, thanks for the advice, I'll give it a try. thanks for watching
I would true your wheel and reduce the surface contact of the wheel by stepping it, coolant wouldn't hurt and try it on something harder, 1018 does not grind well and it doesn't need to be ground, that is like eating peas with a butter knife.
I haven't used mine to try to get finishes on the OD (I set mine up for grinding chuck jaws. I wouldn't have made all of the short back and forth motions, but set it up more like turning where you do the whole length and feed in tenths at a time.
Also, one other way you could have mounted the grinder if you have a boring bar holder which will fit one of the extended neck air grinders, you can hold it by the neck in the boring bar holder. I think the one I got was 7/8".
+ILGopher all good observations, my travel was limited as well as my experience with a die grinder, thanks for watching
You relied on the accuracy of a pnuematic tool for grinding your lathe chuck? Did you ever check runout or concentricity of the pnuematic tool? Also they tend to vibrate apart I don’t see them being a wise choice unless you’re buying a precision air spindle.
Brian, polishing 1018 is hard, it is too gummy, try some stainless. Also, get some decent wheels. the bigger the diameter, the faster the SFM. Those pink things are crap, get some good alox. Also, you should dress the stone so it cuts equally around the circumference. Finally, dont expect miscalls, those bearings in the die grinder are not precision.
+Cuppa Joe yeah Joe I think you are right, expecting to much from 1018, also not expecting much from a $15 grinder either, this was just a test since I have no experience with a die grinder. thanks for watching
Grinder wheel needs dressing and put the lathe in lowest speed available. Preferably use flood cooling an a very low traverse feed.
Dressing the wheel might give you a better finish. It looked like grinding wheel was way below center line also
from looking at your stone one side getting dark and the other side still pink, your wheel is out of ballance it's just cutting one-sided , you have to true it up. and your finish will only get as smooth as the grit size. need to work your way up to finer and finer grits as you polish it
I just used a small vise to hook to the lathe. It's a small lathe. It's barely jewelry maker size.
Mrpete222, an ex school teacher, showed 2 years ago, tip 186 I think it was on how to get 1018, copper, even lead very very smooth with a simple cutter that is about 1/1,000 of the work and effort you've put in.
edit:
www.icstation.com/sr505-mini-infrared-motion-sensor-infrared-detector-module-p-5296.html
I found it so I thought I'd insert it in here.
But it was somewhat fun to watch parts of it -- has the proper Time Allen "More Power" spirit to it. I have been thinking about doing a similar thing for hogging out wood on a wood lathe. I'd like to hook up a full circular saw running against the direction of rpm and it should hog wood like a dozen beavers going at all altogether at once!
(wish I had a welder, almost all my jigs are wood. BTW table leaves are extremely HQ and dimensionally stable wood -- soo good that it is used for the main beam of a house in the more commonly known name of LVL-- Laminated Veneer Lumber. You might consider that when you don't want to burn something out. It'd be more than strong enough even though I know people love AL and steel. I dunno why people get so stuck to it though -- wood is awesome and easy to work. I mainly mess with steel when I need to sharpen a cutter & have plenty of diamond for carbide tips.)
I think you should have tried a polishing tip with appropriate compound on the air die grinder. Isn't that shafts get polished before going into a bronze bushing anyway? I made a small dremel one out of leather discs glued together and silver polish on it when I had lots of dad's really old WWII silver to polish. I spray lacquered it clear afterwards so I would never have to do those jobs again, either. I'm no fool!
+BikingMNViking Thanks for the informative post, that link went to a LED driver or something. I was into wood working for many years, many jigs for the table saw and all sorts of jointer, routers, etc, I moved to metal a couple years ago, thanks for watching.
Brian
Every die grinder I’ve had in hand in the past 25 years regardless of brand have had noticeable play in the collet. Unless you’re swapping all the bearings out and shimming internals I don’t see how you can reliable do this with any accuracy.
I'm sire you have become a pro at it by not but I would go simple first. turn on your lathe and get some sheets of different sandpapers start with a 60 and step up from there.
I assure you that it can be polished but it will be a pain in the ass. also it doesn't have to be perfectly smooth because a polishing compound will fill in the imperfections as long as they arent to bad.
I've polished wheels, motorcycle frames ect
great ingenuity though
Yep good old sand paper is always a good fall back. thanks for watching
Brian
some how I thing that air grinder it's not up to the task try to youse electric grinder with the more power
If a regular grind set up works on a lathe, There is no reason a die grinder should not work,
Tighten up the bearings in the die grinder, make sure the shaft does not move lengthwise.
Dress the stone, and use a very light feed, into stock and move X direction very slowly,
A flexible or soft grinding material may also improve the finish, as this does not create a solid pressure on the surface your grinding,
A lubricant might also help. These die grinders are a grinding machine and no reason for them not to work,
1) the die grinder stone shown in the video isn't the best out there - they have grit and bond grading identification system for things like surface grinder wheels (also liquid cooling in use of same); carbide burr is more appropriate to the hand held.; 2) magnetic base diamond tipped wheel dressing of the stone...precision depends on the rotational tolerance of the grinder tool...way less than a couple thou @ a whack the wheel dress and 'finish off'. 3) metal believe it or not is just like wood finish > homogenized the surface...various methods. tom lipton / ox tool video shows one instance of how the gauge surface of a granite inspection plate is certified ought to give you some ideas for the basic workshop application.years ago as a student machinist...engineering dept. task was mirror finishing a turned center section of hot rolled bolts (6-8") that then got stretched to failure and observed under an electron microscope. in the end since I had literally hundreds of them as batch proofs to do...carbide radius cutter in the lathe, then a series of files and abrasive papering gave the best result for the amount of time and effort required...n.i.c. the end result finger pointing of why they never sold on the open market other than railroad industry.the paper towel blind bearing removeal video - way thumbs up; tapered bearings where used because of the superior thrust loading they have over the spares you had thought to use as replacements.
Why would you do that that’s a waste of an air tool
it was like $12
Dress the wheel also try a larger diameter wheel, but dress it true.
Part should turn opposite of your die grinder. Fine grit stone (white)
A fiber wheel, either poly or cotton and some Mother's. Same setup, it will make it shine like a mirror. Yes, I know Mothers isn't meant for steel.
You eat the kibble, cats want meat...
I sure miss ole Red the Cat, he passed Dec of last year