The energy consumption would have been nice to know as well. A measurement that in real life is more interesting than how fast an empty fridge cools down. And how well does the insulation perform, you have the thermal camera to easily detect heat bridges to the inside.
I thought the same thing at first, but how fast it cools down from room temperature should reflect how quickly it returns to operating temperature after opening the doors (or maybe leaving them open for a minute or two, which some people do occasionally).
Learning how to use the IR camera to measure IR reflective objects would be a good. By measuring to the side, you're just measuring the reflection off the can from the side instead of the front. You should be pointing at the taped area for a good reading.
Yes, absolutely agree. If you have no experience using thermal cameras, that's a mistake a lot of people do. If you're measuring anything metal, it's best to put tape on it to read the temperature there. The paint on the can is too thin and translucent to the IR wavelengths associated with thermal IR. They were reading the temp of whatever was reflected inside the fridges or the outside. When I saw the tape, I thought that that's what they were going to measure (also knew it was to hide the brand name).
I don’t think a test to see how fast they cool down is a great test, a better test would be how fast they warm up when the power is unplugged, a better test for insulation
Agreed. How often do you turn a fridge on? As long as it can get to and maintain the target temperature I don’t care if it takes a day. I would be interested to know how long will it hold temp on a powerless, its power efficiency and how much temp and power fluctuate as a result of door openings.
Yes, the time to cool down kind of showed these two guys are a little out of their element testing a kitchen appliance. Like a couple of bros: "dude, how long to get my beer cold when I throw it in the fridge?". I think people that actually use a fridge are more concerned with how consistent and uniform the temperature is kept after the fridge is up and operating. Or, how easy is to clean spills, or do the drawers or shelves break with use.
This and a more realistic scenario, where you have a fridge already filled with other goods, which's overall temperature has stabilized over time and then adding something at room temperature to it.
When using infrared to measure temperature, note that not all materials emit IR the same way. Metals and shiny surfaces tend to reflect IR, so you're not measuring the object itself. It's called the emissivity of a material. Use black paint or tape to get a more accurate measurement. You can even see the outline of the blue tape here, which proves it emits IR differently since its temperature is the same as the can and its contents.
i think the startup test might be a bit irrelevant, a better test might be to have the fridges on in a steadystate and then add a bunch of warm thermal mass and see how they both are effected
Reading through the comments quickly, I love how everyone is nerding out on power draws, cool downs, efficiency, warm up times, etc etc etc. This consumer series is awesome
I'm surprised at how interesting these teardowns have become for me no matter what the product is. A lot of the poor design choices y'all point out have the same "flavor" as complaints that I and a few other people have about every piece of software/firmware/etc., we've worked on over the years. I suppose it's nice to see other folks who appreciate and encourage quality work no matter what field it's in.
@@shazam6274 I think they do have that level of quality, just not the presentation skills. It's fairly obvious that they are both knowledgeable and successful in the fields of teardown, analysis, A vs B comparison, and design. On the other hand, they're not doing Project Farm (or Gamers Nexus) level's of graphs. Not because they can't do it, but because it's not the direction they want the channel to go. Take their testing shown here. That's not a super accurate test, but it's also more of a "TH-cam" / initial test than anything else. Thermocouples are cheap (for industrial equipment), and there's no way they don't know how to use them.
Funny thing about the car teardowns were that people (myself included) get really brand-loyal, so the objectivity of your analysis can be easily lost on them. I have absolutely no opinion on either Frigidaire or SubZero, though, so being able to just sit back and compare the two fridges objectively is really fun. Thanks, Cory and Adam!
Objectivity without expertise equitably compares irrelevant things. This Pekinese has more moles than that Irish hound. It's carrier is lighter. They both got injured in shipping.
Comparing how fast they initially cool down is hardly scientific (different size, hardly any real value to the customer) and the measurement method was a joke. Painfully incorrect usage of an infrared camera, no regard for emissivity or reflection, no tape. Without tape, you either have reflection or condensation making the readings worthless.
If you buy pay for a Sub-Zero, do you really care about saving $100 a year in electricity? However, having the doors open a lot to load the fridge or repeated opening during cooking, cooling speed would be important to maintain the temp.
Munro & Associates keep rolling out the hits. You guys are on to something big. I find this very educational and will help a lot of us be better engineering minded consumers.
In the final results, the Sub is going to be revealed as much a fashion statement of conspicuous consumption for the stylish dream kitchen than an example of superior mechanical functionality. The rest of the price difference is the consequence of much lower production volume, and possibly higher labor cost per unit. It will be interesting to see if the Sub uses more durable polycarbonate plastic and the Fridge uses cheap acrylic, or other not so visible subtleties that make one more durable than the other when kids start banging on the transparent drawers or closing the doors on then while they aren’t fully closed. Also, the manufacturing source of the compressors and refrigerants used might also be interesting, as well as their electrical usage in operation, including defrost cycles. Ball bearings in fans versus bronze, etc.
Possibly. Though I do think some of the additional things, like the magnetic latch and soft close drawers are nice touches. They're more expensive but are both nicer and help to prevent slamming or the door not closing automatically because the hinges got stiff over years of use.
True, but those kind of differences cost pennies, not thousands of dollars to make. Kind of like the vacuum cleaner you have to pay $100 more for to get a $2 cost longer cord that reaches every corner of a room.
You should have put an energy meter on your extension cord to get kWh used per hour. Check the nameplates for watts as well. The Sub Zero has more mass and would take longer to cool down down depending on the wattage of the compressor for each unit. Also, IR thermometers can give squirrely readings on reflective objects. Pop those cans and insert a thermometer, thermocouple, or RTD. What is the cubic feet of each unit? Munro Live, this was not your best effort.
@James Ziskend Why isn't a company president qualified to review the design of a mechanical appliance? He doesn't need to understand principle of operation or read the installation directions. He knows how to open the doors and put a can of beer in it. Next I want to see him review the computer code of the OS of his laptop.
You guys are doing good; well done Cory & Adam! I am glad that you made the distinction in storage space between the 2 products because, of course, cooling a large space vs cooling a small space will have an impact of the temperature of your canned beverage. Keep up the good work guys!
We seem to be assuming that a faster cooldown for a can of beer when the fridge has just been turned on is a valid measure of quality/performance. Maybe that's not a valid assumption. Of much more interest to consumers are durability - how long will these appliance continue in service without maintenance? - energy consumption, and temperature consistency during prolonged operation. Startup cooling speed probably isn't very important.
the subzero likely had much more substantial material content (i.e. more steel/plastic/components) to cool, thus it was cooling down slower. It would be great to see the power draw of each
If the SZ was a car reviewed by Sandy he'd be lambasting that excessive mass the need for two cooling systems and the loss of cabinet space above that bloated tub of 20th century "bigger is better" engineering.
Cory & Adam, thank you for this series! I need this as a diversion until you get the Rivian R1T in the house! I'm hoping by the end, you two don't burst my bubble. As I said earlier, we put in a Subzero and Wolf a couple years ago when we built hopefully our last house. My wife thought I was crazy to spend this much on appliances. Subzero and Wolf may not be perfect, but after you have these in your house, other appliances feel like cheap toys.
As I said before - liking the diversity. When I was at Uni I worked as the PC nerd in a brown&white goods store during off term time. I found myself getting an interest in the seemingly mundane design and manufacture of white goods like fridges, freezers, microwaves, etc. Even had a customer show up with a Bruel & Kjaer instrument to measure microwave leakage. That was interesting.
Please try a longer term test... Fridge filled with products on all shelves and door racks. Compare localized temps at each of these places. I've always seen wide variations in these measurements.
It could be, if they understood the products they were looking at. Get a mechanical engineer who understands consumer refrigeration appliances on this .
Of course they know that the number one priority on a consumer's a list of things they need from refrigerator is visibility of concealed mold marks, not reliability, cost of operation, or usability . I wonder how the carbon footprints of the appliances compare.
I’d never heard of Munro until he showed up on the Autoline site. Now I’ll watch his lieutenants chirp out the vagarities of refrigerators because he proved to be a solid resource on the build quality of electric cars. Good job Sandy.
I would have liked to see energy usage, current draw during that hour both peak and constant. Obviously, there are more scientific methods of testing and this is just a start. I look forward to the Sub-Zero teardown as that factory is just a few miles from me.
@@jetah50 SZ can afford to send someone; they have the profit margin selling clunky old tech with a digital display and LED lighting. Frigidaire is too busy manufacturing 20X the number of plug and play refrigerators for US sales. Never mentioned was if either fridge is Energy Star "efficient", which is a shame since fridges are the top energy consumer in homes.
The compressor is pretty much either on or off. When you first turn it on, it is just going to run constantly and the power draw would change very little until it finally makes temp and then it will drop down to something very small. So for this one hour test where the compressor isn't going to cycle off, it would be pretty much constant. Cumulative cycle on-time will be driven by how fast heat enters the unit which is mostly a factor of how well it is insulated and how big it is (surface area). And of course how often you open the door and for how long. The power draw of the unit while running will mostly be a factor of how big the compressor is, not how cold it is inside the fridge. To be completely accurate, it will draw more amps with a higher load on the compressor (higher refrigerant flow rate and/or higher pressure differential), but the load isn't going to change very much when the condenser is in a climate controlled room. What for sure will change is the higher the temp differential between inside and outside, the faster heat will get through the insulation and the more run time you will have.
you could use a temperature data logger (eg a HOBO 8K Pendant® Temperature/Alarm (Waterproof) Data Logger) to see how the temperature management works in both models. Maybe a few experiments with increasing numbers of gallon containers of water in the fridge compartment to vary the thermal mass.
The Frigidaire is 115VAC, 115A circuit. It looked the SZ was connected to a 3-prong AC extension cord. The SZ might need a 20A circuit, but it shouldn't.
@James Ziskend Save a copy of your comments, keep the language clean, and keep reposting them under alternate names after Sandy returns. They will tire of being censors.
Can you check and see what socks work best and jackets for thermal performance? What about the relative insulation performance of different vehicles? Insulation is important for EV winter range!!
A much better test of cooling capacity would be to load the refrigerators up with a lot of containers of water and measure how long it takes to cool that down since water takes a lot more energy to cool down than the air inside the refrigerator.
That result was not what I would expect it I shelled out 10k for a fridge. It's interesting getting in the head space of the designers. Great work guys!!
I do like this series. Hopefully you look deeply into the refrigeration components. Curious to find out whose manufacturer of compressor they use and the BTU ratings of each one. Do they use thermostatic expansion valves, etc. I’m sure the Frigidaire doesn’t use TXVs.
I am from the Madison area... and there is no way I could justify spending that amount for a Sub-Zero... replaced my frig about a year ago with a GE... and the main things I considered was the opening I had to work with (above cabinets were and issue) and the shelfs inside how they looked, wanted sturdy and flexible arrangements for the shelfs... happy with my GE choice... barely fit in my opening! As the above cabinets cannot be opened now... lol
Question about thermal camera: Arent there too many variables to use it reliably? Ambient air, range, reflectivity of target. I know it's not the actual testing yet but something to keep in mind for viewers to not take the thermal camera for some definitive measurement.
That's why an engineer who thinks and knows what he's doing - uses the right tools to measure.. Non-contact temperature measurement is used where it's dangerous or impractical make contact - like hot brake rotors, stars, or magna. For this measurement contact is practical. You could do it continuously, without opening the doors, with a contact thermocouple, a $20 digital multimeter and a lab grade glass thermometer for calibration. But the beer test they did would still be a pointless waste of time.
You're measuring the temperature with that IR camera incorrectly! Point the temp cursor towards the blue tape, because it has a higher emissivity than metal.
I don’t think the rubber on the Allen key is protect from scratches , I think it’s more to protect the hand of the user since the person who is going to install the handles is not technically advance or just a regular Consumer
The slower cool down rate could be from better efficiency. It would be interesting to look at energy consumption to maintain the set temperature over 48 hours or so. You should probably put some stuff in the fridge for thermal mass (maybe 30 lbs of stuff... beer maybe?). If the freezer can't be shut off separately, then put a similar thermal mass in each freezer and program to the same temperature set point. The energy consumption test should not start until steady state temperature is reached (don't open the door during the test, at least not too often). If the units are of different volume, you could express the results in 3 metrics. Energy used (over the 48 hours... in KWh), Energy used per unit volume of the fridge and Energy used per surface area of the fridge (internal... this starts to tell you something about the insulation quality). Should also record the ambient (external of the fridge) temperature. I assume you have a couple of "kill-a-watt" meters (or the like) to measure the energy consumed. These are pretty cheap and available on amazon.
Agree with all of your points. What I don’t agree with is that we as an audience shouldn’t have to suggest to this company how to do some very basic tests of a product. Especially is that is what the company in question is supposedly good at.
that temperature meshurement was highly unprofesional,we all can see the reflection of the body,next time meshure something that doesnt reflect infrared
they should compare both of these two the original GE monitor top. absolutely the epitome of efficient industrial design with the entire mechanism easily removable for service.
One thing that wasn't mentioned on the 'Cooling' speed temp was the amount of thermal mass in materials inside the Fridges. One may have more thermal mass to cool down (i.e. if one has a lot more metal in the lining of the fridge, it would have a lot more thermal mass. The air itself doesn't have a lot of thermal mass in comparison. All that said, the reality is once they're filled with food, that food is going to have the majority of thermal mass. So the cooling of beverages by tossing them in the fridge is going to be more about what temp you have the fridge set at, as the thermal mass will keep the temps stable (the fridge will kick in and gives cycles but typically at 1-2 deg diff in nominal air temp.
Not going to tell us how many jobs Adam has had this time......Or are you scared the tape runs out before you finish listing them?.....Anyway...Always good to be transparent!......Hope this helps!
Cory in the first episode: We gonna flex our engineering muscle. The second episode: "Jack of all trades, master of none" in action People after watching it: Hmm, this muscle needs a workout.
Hey guys, in the future to get around the issue of reflections on the can, you should put some black electrical tape on it. Then you wouldn't see the reflections, and you know what the emissivity of the material is.
Something to look into as well is that the fridgidaire might cool too strong. Basically i have a kitchenaide that is very similar to that fridge and it destroys some vegetables and it will freeze vents so that ice is blocking cold from getting to some places.
You need to put some matt black tape on the cans otherwise you're just measuring the back of the fridge reflected in the surface of the can. When you pointed 'away from the reflected part' you were just pointing at a different reflected part which was reflecting the interior of the fridge rather than something hot outside of it.
A much more useful test would be measuring the temperature variations of the refrigerators. Just place several accurate smart thermometers inside each fridge and record results for several hours.
What is most important to me is the overall efficiency of a refrigerator. How many white hours are consumed in a 30 day average? How much money will one of these fridges save me versus the other in its lifetime?
I believe the Sub-Zero is designed for trophy wives that are not likely to be using it very much and it's likely to be opened up and found a lot of decayed over aged groceries if any The Frigidaire is more likely to be well-stocked with ready to consume food.
if you take out the shelves of the Sub-Zero it has a large enough capacity to hold a trophy wife once you get tired of her. Set the fridge thermostat to minimum, wipe it off and confound the ME's time of death estimate. Thaw just before leaving on an extended trip to establish an alibi. Happy Columbo Day.
The energy consumption would have been nice to know as well. A measurement that in real life is more interesting than how fast an empty fridge cools down. And how well does the insulation perform, you have the thermal camera to easily detect heat bridges to the inside.
I thought the same thing at first, but how fast it cools down from room temperature should reflect how quickly it returns to operating temperature after opening the doors (or maybe leaving them open for a minute or two, which some people do occasionally).
Nothing like watching a couple of guys nerd-out over a refrigerator. That’s Entertainment!
The cold beer challenge was the best part. Will this go viral on Tik Tok?
Like computer nerds who failed in biology comparing a grey wolf and a shitzu.
Guys i really like this consumer series. I'm originally here for Sandy and the Tesla teardowns, but this is as interesting. keep it up!
Thanks Antoine
Yes. I'm not saying I'm in a similar industry because I can't but this kind of stuff is my life.
Learning how to use the IR camera to measure IR reflective objects would be a good. By measuring to the side, you're just measuring the reflection off the can from the side instead of the front. You should be pointing at the taped area for a good reading.
Agree, seems that there was a lot of variability in measurement
Outsource the entire teardown to the fans!
By that logic, wouldn't measuring the front just be measuring the reflected heat of the outside room?
@@raddaks2039 That's why it looks orange, it reflects the camera man, or something in the background.
Yes, absolutely agree. If you have no experience using thermal cameras, that's a mistake a lot of people do. If you're measuring anything metal, it's best to put tape on it to read the temperature there. The paint on the can is too thin and translucent to the IR wavelengths associated with thermal IR. They were reading the temp of whatever was reflected inside the fridges or the outside. When I saw the tape, I thought that that's what they were going to measure (also knew it was to hide the brand name).
I don’t think a test to see how fast they cool down is a great test, a better test would be how fast they warm up when the power is unplugged, a better test for insulation
Yes, great idea. Power loss test
This is a great idea.
Agreed. How often do you turn a fridge on? As long as it can get to and maintain the target temperature I don’t care if it takes a day. I would be interested to know how long will it hold temp on a powerless, its power efficiency and how much temp and power fluctuate as a result of door openings.
Yes, the time to cool down kind of showed these two guys are a little out of their element testing a kitchen appliance. Like a couple of bros: "dude, how long to get my beer cold when I throw it in the fridge?".
I think people that actually use a fridge are more concerned with how consistent and uniform the temperature is kept after the fridge is up and operating. Or, how easy is to clean spills, or do the drawers or shelves break with use.
This and a more realistic scenario, where you have a fridge already filled with other goods, which's overall temperature has stabilized over time and then adding something at room temperature to it.
When using infrared to measure temperature, note that not all materials emit IR the same way. Metals and shiny surfaces tend to reflect IR, so you're not measuring the object itself. It's called the emissivity of a material. Use black paint or tape to get a more accurate measurement. You can even see the outline of the blue tape here, which proves it emits IR differently since its temperature is the same as the can and its contents.
Yes. The only use I have found for IR is to detect temperature differences across an object. I use a thermocouple to measure actual temp.
Never.. ever I thought I would be interested in watching a video about refrigerators... Ever... Thanks a lot guys 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
Glad you enjoyed it!
i think the startup test might be a bit irrelevant, a better test might be to have the fridges on in a steadystate and then add a bunch of warm thermal mass and see how they both are effected
Reading through the comments quickly, I love how everyone is nerding out on power draws, cool downs, efficiency, warm up times, etc etc etc. This consumer series is awesome
Glad you enjoy it!
@@MunroLive So far this consumer series is like watching Jackass. Next up, the drop test.
I'm surprised at how interesting these teardowns have become for me no matter what the product is. A lot of the poor design choices y'all point out have the same "flavor" as complaints that I and a few other people have about every piece of software/firmware/etc., we've worked on over the years.
I suppose it's nice to see other folks who appreciate and encourage quality work no matter what field it's in.
I know right, they could be the next Project Farm!
@@anydaynow01 They would have to do a lot better and have a long way to go.
@@shazam6274 I think they do have that level of quality, just not the presentation skills. It's fairly obvious that they are both knowledgeable and successful in the fields of teardown, analysis, A vs B comparison, and design. On the other hand, they're not doing Project Farm (or Gamers Nexus) level's of graphs. Not because they can't do it, but because it's not the direction they want the channel to go.
Take their testing shown here. That's not a super accurate test, but it's also more of a "TH-cam" / initial test than anything else. Thermocouples are cheap (for industrial equipment), and there's no way they don't know how to use them.
Funny thing about the car teardowns were that people (myself included) get really brand-loyal, so the objectivity of your analysis can be easily lost on them. I have absolutely no opinion on either Frigidaire or SubZero, though, so being able to just sit back and compare the two fridges objectively is really fun. Thanks, Cory and Adam!
Thanks!
Objectivity without expertise equitably compares irrelevant things. This Pekinese has more moles than that Irish hound. It's carrier is lighter. They both got injured in shipping.
I love this. It's like a consumer reports. Except trustworthy
CR tests things that relate to actual performance.
Comparing how fast they initially cool down is hardly scientific (different size, hardly any real value to the customer) and the measurement method was a joke. Painfully incorrect usage of an infrared camera, no regard for emissivity or reflection, no tape. Without tape, you either have reflection or condensation making the readings worthless.
They really should have measured the temperature to the tape on the cans. It might not be *perfect* but it would work much much better
Props to the guy that made the handle assembly tool.
I wonder how many returns they had before they added the sleeve on the Alan wrench
The metal can is reflective to the IR, you need to aim the camera at the tape on the can for a more accurate reading
Cooling speed is fairly unimportant, let’s see what the efficiency is!
I agree for home use. For commercial kitchen use it is very important.
If you buy pay for a Sub-Zero, do you really care about saving $100 a year in electricity? However, having the doors open a lot to load the fridge or repeated opening during cooking, cooling speed would be important to maintain the temp.
Could we see total energy draw to maintain a temperature for a day? E.g. set both to 37, start at room tem (or at cold), and measure the energy usage
Munro & Associates keep rolling out the hits. You guys are on to something big. I find this very educational and will help a lot of us be better engineering minded consumers.
In the final results, the Sub is going to be revealed as much a fashion statement of conspicuous consumption for the stylish dream kitchen than an example of superior mechanical functionality. The rest of the price difference is the consequence of much lower production volume, and possibly higher labor cost per unit. It will be interesting to see if the Sub uses more durable polycarbonate plastic and the Fridge uses cheap acrylic, or other not so visible subtleties that make one more durable than the other when kids start banging on the transparent drawers or closing the doors on then while they aren’t fully closed. Also, the manufacturing source of the compressors and refrigerants used might also be interesting, as well as their electrical usage in operation, including defrost cycles. Ball bearings in fans versus bronze, etc.
Professional installation of a SZ (without applying cladding) costs more than the Frigidaire.
Possibly. Though I do think some of the additional things, like the magnetic latch and soft close drawers are nice touches. They're more expensive but are both nicer and help to prevent slamming or the door not closing automatically because the hinges got stiff over years of use.
True, but those kind of differences cost pennies, not thousands of dollars to make. Kind of like the vacuum cleaner you have to pay $100 more for to get a $2 cost longer cord that reaches every corner of a room.
You should have put an energy meter on your extension cord to get kWh used per hour. Check the nameplates for watts as well. The Sub Zero has more mass and would take longer to cool down down depending on the wattage of the compressor for each unit. Also, IR thermometers can give squirrely readings on reflective objects. Pop those cans and insert a thermometer, thermocouple, or RTD. What is the cubic feet of each unit? Munro Live, this was not your best effort.
Want more consumer stuff! Thanks Munro!
@James Ziskend Not sure what you mean. I any case they look quite qualified to me!
@James Ziskend They are by no means perfect, but still seem qualified enough to me. Of course we can find flaws, but who do you compare them to?
Put matt black tape on the items you want to measure with an infrared thermometer. Otherwise you'll see the reflection instead.
@James Ziskend Why isn't a company president qualified to review the design of a mechanical appliance? He doesn't need to understand principle of operation or read the installation directions. He knows how to open the doors and put a can of beer in it. Next I want to see him review the computer code of the OS of his laptop.
You guys are doing good; well done Cory & Adam!
I am glad that you made the distinction in storage space between the 2 products because, of course, cooling a large space vs cooling a small space will have an impact of the temperature of your canned beverage.
Keep up the good work guys!
@James Ziskend Dude, your original comment is still here; you can chill with the trolling~
We seem to be assuming that a faster cooldown for a can of beer when the fridge has just been turned on is a valid measure of quality/performance.
Maybe that's not a valid assumption.
Of much more interest to consumers are durability - how long will these appliance continue in service without maintenance? - energy consumption, and temperature consistency during prolonged operation. Startup cooling speed probably isn't very important.
MUNRO - as per the FRIGADERE Install guide " it may take up to 24H for the Fridge to get to Temprature and STABILIZE."
the subzero likely had much more substantial material content (i.e. more steel/plastic/components) to cool, thus it was cooling down slower. It would be great to see the power draw of each
If the SZ was a car reviewed by Sandy he'd be lambasting that excessive mass the need for two cooling systems and the loss of cabinet space above that bloated tub of 20th century "bigger is better" engineering.
Cory & Adam, thank you for this series! I need this as a diversion until you get the Rivian R1T in the house! I'm hoping by the end, you two don't burst my bubble. As I said earlier, we put in a Subzero and Wolf a couple years ago when we built hopefully our last house. My wife thought I was crazy to spend this much on appliances. Subzero and Wolf may not be perfect, but after you have these in your house, other appliances feel like cheap toys.
I’m surprised you don’t have a temperature probe instead of a flawed it measurement.
Along with a go pro in the fridge filming the live temp.
@@Robert-cu9bm there are wireless probes with wifi and graphs etc etc.
@@Gorgula
A fridge is a metal box, basically a Faraday cage.
It might be a struggle for the wireless probe to work.
As I said before - liking the diversity. When I was at Uni I worked as the PC nerd in a brown&white goods store during off term time. I found myself getting an interest in the seemingly mundane design and manufacture of white goods like fridges, freezers, microwaves, etc. Even had a customer show up with a Bruel & Kjaer instrument to measure microwave leakage. That was interesting.
Please try a longer term test... Fridge filled with products on all shelves and door racks. Compare localized temps at each of these places. I've always seen wide variations in these measurements.
What was the power draw from each in that first hour?
@James Ziskend Thank you most kind sir :)
Refrigerator's are really quiet now. My grandparents Frigidaire was really cold and you could hear it start. The icicles were really neat too.
Great addition to your channel, I am Loving it. Love the Brand Frigidaire
Awesome! Thank you!
It could be, if they understood the products they were looking at. Get a mechanical engineer who understands consumer refrigeration appliances on this .
By accident I stumbled upon this corner of the Munro video section. And this is so cool!! For real! :-D Keep these kinds of vids coming :)
loving this consumer series
I never knew listening about a butter tray would be so interesting. Coming from a Software Engineer
Need a whole spin-off Munro Live podcast talking about butter trays!
Of course they know that the number one priority on a consumer's a list of things they need from refrigerator is visibility of concealed mold marks, not reliability, cost of operation, or usability . I wonder how the carbon footprints of the appliances compare.
If you do not understand how the measurement tool ( thermal camera ) works ( and its shortcomings ) you should not operate it.
@James Ziskend are you going to bitch to every comment about your comment being deleted?
@James Ziskend there isn't any censorship. there's you acting like a child and you're proving it by responding to nearly every comment.
Why? Not knowing how a computer works doesn't prevent them from making video selfies of playing with the fridge cooling two cans of beer
I’d never heard of Munro until he showed up on the Autoline site. Now I’ll watch his lieutenants chirp out the vagarities of refrigerators because he proved to be a solid resource on the build quality of electric cars. Good job Sandy.
Fantastic. Enjoy the warm beer from a 10grand fridge.
I would have liked to see energy usage, current draw during that hour both peak and constant. Obviously, there are more scientific methods of testing and this is just a start. I look forward to the Sub-Zero teardown as that factory is just a few miles from me.
would love to see someone from SZ pop in to the comments from time to time. maybe even go to Sandy's place and offer design reasons!
@@jetah50 SZ can afford to send someone; they have the profit margin selling clunky old tech with a digital display and LED lighting. Frigidaire is too busy manufacturing 20X the number of plug and play refrigerators for US sales. Never mentioned was if either fridge is Energy Star "efficient", which is a shame since fridges are the top energy consumer in homes.
The compressor is pretty much either on or off. When you first turn it on, it is just going to run constantly and the power draw would change very little until it finally makes temp and then it will drop down to something very small. So for this one hour test where the compressor isn't going to cycle off, it would be pretty much constant. Cumulative cycle on-time will be driven by how fast heat enters the unit which is mostly a factor of how well it is insulated and how big it is (surface area). And of course how often you open the door and for how long. The power draw of the unit while running will mostly be a factor of how big the compressor is, not how cold it is inside the fridge. To be completely accurate, it will draw more amps with a higher load on the compressor (higher refrigerant flow rate and/or higher pressure differential), but the load isn't going to change very much when the condenser is in a climate controlled room. What for sure will change is the higher the temp differential between inside and outside, the faster heat will get through the insulation and the more run time you will have.
Can you briefly show the labels on each with the serial number, refrigerant specs, amperage, etc in the next video?
Please tell me you guys didn't run these tests at 2:00AM, as indicated on the thermal measurer you used.
you could use a temperature data logger (eg a HOBO 8K Pendant® Temperature/Alarm (Waterproof) Data Logger) to see how the temperature management works in both models. Maybe a few experiments with increasing numbers of gallon containers of water in the fridge compartment to vary the thermal mass.
@Corey did u set 37 for the subzero? beacause if u look 13:33 of the video the left display says 27
Is the input voltage the same on both?
The Frigidaire is 115VAC, 115A circuit. It looked the SZ was connected to a 3-prong AC extension cord. The SZ might need a 20A circuit, but it shouldn't.
@James Ziskend Save a copy of your comments, keep the language clean, and keep reposting them under alternate names after Sandy returns. They will tire of being censors.
Keep making videos…..we’ll keep watching em! These are so interesting
Can you check and see what socks work best and jackets for thermal performance? What about the relative insulation performance of different vehicles? Insulation is important for EV winter range!!
Thank you!
You're welcome!
Hope you used the appropriate gauge extension cord to allow for voltage drop which in turn affects motor preformance.
A much better test of cooling capacity would be to load the refrigerators up with a lot of containers of water and measure how long it takes to cool that down since water takes a lot more energy to cool down than the air inside the refrigerator.
Speed of cooling is not the only indicator to consider. Which compressor is more efficient? Which box is better insulated?
Nice Corey and Adam!
That result was not what I would expect it I shelled out 10k for a fridge. It's interesting getting in the head space of the designers. Great work guys!!
did they put a layer that will hold magnets behind the SS skin?
I do like this series. Hopefully you look deeply into the refrigeration components. Curious to find out whose manufacturer of compressor they use and the BTU ratings of each one. Do they use thermostatic expansion valves, etc. I’m sure the Frigidaire doesn’t use TXVs.
I can already hear Sandy complaining that you didn't ask the audience to like/subscribe!
I am from the Madison area... and there is no way I could justify spending that amount for a Sub-Zero... replaced my frig about a year ago with a GE... and the main things I considered was the opening I had to work with (above cabinets were and issue) and the shelfs inside how they looked, wanted sturdy and flexible arrangements for the shelfs... happy with my GE choice... barely fit in my opening! As the above cabinets cannot be opened now... lol
GE (Haier) has a reputation for continuous improvement using the same process as Tesla. SZ doesn't.
Question about thermal camera: Arent there too many variables to use it reliably? Ambient air, range, reflectivity of target. I know it's not the actual testing yet but something to keep in mind for viewers to not take the thermal camera for some definitive measurement.
That's why an engineer who thinks and knows what he's doing - uses the right tools to measure.. Non-contact temperature measurement is used where it's dangerous or impractical make contact - like hot brake rotors, stars, or magna.
For this measurement contact is practical. You could do it continuously, without opening the doors, with a contact thermocouple, a $20 digital multimeter and a lab grade glass thermometer for calibration.
But the beer test they did would still be a pointless waste of time.
Adam. Looks at Fridge door handles. "Pretty badass".
You're measuring the temperature with that IR camera incorrectly! Point the temp cursor towards the blue tape, because it has a higher emissivity than metal.
“Sure, it gets cold … but your butter holder is an ABOMINATION!”
I don’t think the rubber on the Allen key is protect from scratches , I think it’s more to protect the hand of the user since the person who is going to install the handles is not technically advance or just a regular Consumer
Is there a measurement of the volume that you can tell us?
Interesting. Good content.
Typical single guy’s ‘fridge: one (1) canned beer! 🍺🤣
So, does Cory have a new nic nac tray on his desk?
Hey Cory, remix 7:42 butter tray claps into a kick-ass intro, with Sandy as human beatbox rappin’ to “It sounds like money”. 🤣
LOVE THE SHOW!!
Why is this so interesting.... feels like a guilty pleasure
What is the model of this temp measurment device? Thanks
The slower cool down rate could be from better efficiency. It would be interesting to look at energy consumption to maintain the set temperature over 48 hours or so. You should probably put some stuff in the fridge for thermal mass (maybe 30 lbs of stuff... beer maybe?). If the freezer can't be shut off separately, then put a similar thermal mass in each freezer and program to the same temperature set point. The energy consumption test should not start until steady state temperature is reached (don't open the door during the test, at least not too often). If the units are of different volume, you could express the results in 3 metrics. Energy used (over the 48 hours... in KWh), Energy used per unit volume of the fridge and Energy used per surface area of the fridge (internal... this starts to tell you something about the insulation quality). Should also record the ambient (external of the fridge) temperature. I assume you have a couple of "kill-a-watt" meters (or the like) to measure the energy consumed. These are pretty cheap and available on amazon.
Agree with all of your points. What I don’t agree with is that we as an audience shouldn’t have to suggest to this company how to do some very basic tests of a product. Especially is that is what the company in question is supposedly good at.
@@13squared2009 True... but other readers might appreciate the test details (maybe)?
I first learned about Sub-Zero when one of their products appeared in the break room at work.
hahaha those WTF??? faces when you mesured the sub zero beer was priceless, unlike this very overpriced fridge!
@James Ziskend they mentioned it in the 1st video
@@ProbeGT2 He's not going to listen. He's been leaving comments all day long on this video because he has nothing better to do apparently.
that temperature meshurement was highly unprofesional,we all can see the reflection of the body,next time meshure something that doesnt reflect infrared
they should compare both of these two the original GE monitor top. absolutely the epitome of efficient industrial design with the entire mechanism easily removable for service.
Is the freezer set up to be able to freeze faster in the expensive one?
@James Ziskend Speed and efficiency is essential. The closer a freezer gets to a blast freezer the happier I am.
I hope you guys measure the noise each fridge produces as well.
I was never quite so sure that I might be "getting old" as I am now, as I watch a fridge comparison 😭
They were loving the lights tho :D
All we care about is … How long 0 to 60?
Munro should many unboxing and testing like this.
One thing that wasn't mentioned on the 'Cooling' speed temp was the amount of thermal mass in materials inside the Fridges. One may have more thermal mass to cool down (i.e. if one has a lot more metal in the lining of the fridge, it would have a lot more thermal mass. The air itself doesn't have a lot of thermal mass in comparison.
All that said, the reality is once they're filled with food, that food is going to have the majority of thermal mass. So the cooling of beverages by tossing them in the fridge is going to be more about what temp you have the fridge set at, as the thermal mass will keep the temps stable (the fridge will kick in and gives cycles but typically at 1-2 deg diff in nominal air temp.
How bout using
"This is AC pullin the plug" as a sign off?
Not going to tell us how many jobs Adam has had this time......Or are you scared the tape runs out before you finish listing them?.....Anyway...Always good to be transparent!......Hope this helps!
poor guy can't hold a job
Cory in the first episode: We gonna flex our engineering muscle.
The second episode: "Jack of all trades, master of none" in action
People after watching it: Hmm, this muscle needs a workout.
Hey guys, in the future to get around the issue of reflections on the can, you should put some black electrical tape on it.
Then you wouldn't see the reflections, and you know what the emissivity of the material is.
Something to look into as well is that the fridgidaire might cool too strong. Basically i have a kitchenaide that is very similar to that fridge and it destroys some vegetables and it will freeze vents so that ice is blocking cold from getting to some places.
Would love to see more home/consumer products! Especially products in the electrification, efficiency, sealing, insulating, or HVAC space.
Time to get a beer!
will competition move if sub zero had a butter patt maker
Keep this up and before you know it you won't have any subscribers left.
You need to put some matt black tape on the cans otherwise you're just measuring the back of the fridge reflected in the surface of the can.
When you pointed 'away from the reflected part' you were just pointing at a different reflected part which was reflecting the interior of the fridge rather than something hot outside of it.
If possible could you please also list the Celsius/Centigrade temperatures. Like how you used Kilograms for the weight.
The orange socks are what make it.
A much more useful test would be measuring the temperature variations of the refrigerators. Just place several accurate smart thermometers inside each fridge and record results for several hours.
What is most important to me is the overall efficiency of a refrigerator. How many white hours are consumed in a 30 day average? How much money will one of these fridges save me versus the other in its lifetime?
Im so confused how you guys are measuring the temperature of the can..? You put the tape on for a reason no?
Please make a cost analysis into the framework laptop!
I believe the Sub-Zero is designed for trophy wives that are not likely to be using it very much and it's likely to be opened up and found a lot of decayed over aged groceries if any
The Frigidaire is more likely to be well-stocked with ready to consume food.
if you take out the shelves of the Sub-Zero it has a large enough capacity to hold a trophy wife once you get tired of her. Set the fridge thermostat to minimum, wipe it off and confound the ME's time of death estimate. Thaw just before leaving on an extended trip to establish an alibi. Happy Columbo Day.
Great now I get to know about refrigerators and EVs :)
Glad to help!
Now, combined the two! Design a EV with fridge. Better yet, a fridge that sprouts wheels!🤣
You need an iSpindel to measure the temperature in the fridge - shows me the temperature of my homebrew in the beer fridge