27 Rejections and 1 Waitlist for This 3.9 GPA Premed. Why? | Application Renovation (S3 E12)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 มิ.ย. 2024
- This premed applied to 28 medical schools with a 3.9 GPA and 514 MCAT, but she only got 1 interview, where she was waitlisted. What went wrong? Let's dive into her AMCAS app and take a look.
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As we look through this student's full AMCAS application, we discuss:
• Should you list your future or current classes on your med school app?
• How to go beyond just basic descriptions in your activities section.
• Why "sales pitch" language hurts your med school application.
• Is it bad to include activities that you only did for 50 hours over the course of a few years?
• How NOT to write about research in a med school application.
• The concern I have when I see a lot of research and very little clinical experience on an application.
• Why I generally don't recommend trying to connect your hobbies to medicine in the personal statement.
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I feel bad for this girl, because her advisors obviously didn’t pay enough attention to her application because of her intellect.
I mean - she could have put even a tiny amount of self research in and likely had a much better outcome. Shouldn’t need someone to hold your hand in arguably the most important application of your life - IMO, lack of industriousness.
I know the school she went to and they have a solid pre-med office. I went to an AMCAS pre med conference with their pre med office. I don’t think she utilized the office at all cause they have dope workshops all the time
I feel bad that she got shafted this time around, but I feel confident that she'll make it next year if she continues to pursue
@@beyou4296 as a newly-graduated physician, I can tell you that pre-med offices don't invest much effort in candidates they feel to be "shoo-ins"-- i.e. candidates with great grades and scores, like this girl. I can speak for myself and people I know. I'm willing to give her the benefit of the doubt and agree with OP; I think it's quite likely she didn't get much help from her advisors on her application because they felt she'd be fine.
I think that people often confuse book smarts/academic success with general intellect and experience-based knowledge, and in this case that was definitely a failure on the part of those who she was depending on helping her.
Is anyone else overwhelmed by the amount of activities some applicants ( like this young girl) has? The fact that this girl has completed all these extra circular activities, maintained a 3.9 GPA, and graduated early is very impressive, but also very discouraging. The imposter syndrome is real lol.
Did you actually watch the video? Half her activities are fluff
@Damien Vivaan lmfao, thought what you said was actually related to the comment for a second xd
Dont compare yourself. Activities and GPA mean nothing if you dont know how to empathize and talk to people. Medicine is moving towards more patient centered care and medical schools are realizing that there are way too many narcs and sociopaths attracted to the field and treating people horribly. Not only that, but by treating the DISEASE and not the PATIENT, it has exacerbated many health care issues that we have to this day. If you show that you are emotionally intelligent and genuinely interested in helping others, you’ll be fine. Anyone can learn how to study and pass exams, but not everyone can be a caring provider 🤷🏾♀️
@@Confettifun You're not wrong - but while empathy will make you a good doctor, it's unfortunate that it doesn't help you get in. I went to McMaster University in Canada; this is the school that pioneered "small-case, problem-based learning." No MCAT. No tests. You start clinical work the first week. The program is 2 years and 8 months - no summers off (why on earth would you need the "summer off" during medical school)?
McMaster was - at one time - well-known for taking older applicants (we had a 52 year-old in our class), and for accepting people from a range of other backgrounds, music, drama, whatever. You're right that these backgrounds can make for more well-rounded doctors - but for most schools, things are still very grades-focused. Things have to change at the application stage though to filter-out the narcissists!
This is what makes my so anxious and scared
This girl is super smart and obviously a hard worker. She should have got into at least one school. I think this video shows that it's becoming harder and harder to apply without a gap year. The clinical experience and research coupled with the coursework is just too much.
Heh, tell me about it. You can do it... at the expense of a social life and sanity.
Amen
And they always talk about the doctor shortage 😅
No, medical school committees have become assholes towards Indian and Asian applicants. This is just one of the reasons why America has shitty healthcare. The system is literally discriminatory upon race.
I agree with your remark. Even though her application could and should have been stronger, she still should have been given more interviews and a greater level of acceptability. I do not buy the concept that these reviewers are that smart, narrow-minded and laser focused on who the applicant is as a person. They are looking more at patterns, diversity tones and inclusionary fits.
Props to her for agreeing to put this on the internet
It’s fake
@@campbellstewart9938 lmao why would this be fake ha
@@campbellstewart9938 That would explain a lot. How do you graduate in 3 years with a 3.9 from USC and say "these learnings"?
I'm a 27 years old that never went to college and works in banking... Why did I watch this 35 min video about getting into medical school? lol it was very interesting though
I'm in interior design and work pharmaceutical sales as a gig. I just love watching self-improvement.
Would you like to go? If you watched the video, I'm wondering if you might. I worked as a copywriter with a creative writing degree and started med school at age 35. It's not too late if you wanted to go.
Saw your play list on your channel, I'm very impressed by your "Car" play list 👏.
Im an art major, why am i here??
same! i'm literally at my finance job watching this lol
These videos always stress me out
Bro same! I always leave thinking I have to take another year to get more experiences 😂
My palms are literally sweating
Dont be. She had an over 83 percent chance of getting in according to lizzym just based on stats. Also keep in mind only people who got rejected will come to Dr.gray so it's a sort of selecting bias. Apply all around and you'll be good
Don't give up, period.
Literally. I avoid them and then binge them 💀
To the applicant in this video: This was brutally tough feedback, and wow you are so lucky to have received it! Now you can take a totally new approach to your application next year and nail it!
Students tend to describe more about what their extracurricular activities rather than describe who they are.
I have no idea how I’m supposed to get all these experiences within 3 years and still get above 3.7 GPA and 80th percentile on the MCAT. The best I can figure out is to take 1 or 2 gap years and that’s still stressful.
@@a23oj28 Yess I was gonna volunteer and start working to save up money for med school this year but covid happened
Well, take a few gap years. I took two years off and it might've been the best decision I ever made because I got to learn who I was. I got a job as a cook, learned what working meant, and accrued some free time during which I could discover my interests... rather than being swindled into majoring in "explorative studies."
You don't technically need all those experiences - you can get into medical if your have continuity with experiences - like if you did a lot within some college organization or had a job through college. That's way more important that having a list of fluff on your application
@@a23oj28 Well an adventure is always scary. But it also imparts unique mindsets that you’re friends will probably never be able to reach. If you read/watch Naruto, you know that Jiraiya went to Mt. Myoboku to train with toads while everyone else just went on their kiddie ninja missions. Catching runaway turkeys and whatnot. And now he’s the most legendary of the three sannin.
Or, you could view it as... not scary at all. You’re just getting a job for a year or two. I went into cooking. Experiencing the working class is great; the people are usually much more well-rounded than those in academia. They laugh at jokes instead of thinking about them hard enough to become offended. Sure, your schooling would be put off for a year. But you didn’t lose a year; you gained a year of real living. Everyone in college lost that.
The only scary thing about it, it seems to me, is the fact that your institutional education will be paused while that of your friends’ will continue. Well, that happened to me. And look at me, a 23-year-old junior, not giving a damn about that. We’ll all be dead in 80 years anyway.
The median age of med school applicants is 23, so the majority take at least one gap year. What helped me accept the fact that taking a gap year would be ultimately good for me was realizing that I'm competing with people who might be in their late 20s or even 30s. People who have a lot more experience than I do will be compared equally with me, med schools don't care about age.
I was worried about "falling behind" and being older than everyone, but the truth is it takes however long it takes for you to be a ready applicant. No use in applying early when unprepared just to feel disappointment from rejection/losing money from applications and interviews.
Sounds like she unfortunately made all of the classic mistakes. Primarily, she didn’t have enough clinical experience and her activities were “fluffy” or incorrectly categorized. Her personal statement didn’t answer *why* she wants to be a doctor but tried to sell why she would be a good one. Plus her school list included a lot of public out of state schools.
She sounds like a great applicant, I hope next cycle goes better for her!
Is there something bad with public out of state schools?
@@sarahvidal9458 Not necessarily but you have to look into their acceptance rate for out-of-state applicants. Unless you have strong ties to the state, many public schools aren't likely to take an out-of-state applicant. U of Washington, for example, *rarely* accepts students outside of the states it serves (Washington, Wyoming, Alaska, Montana, Idaho)
@@shlorwhor19 So it looks suspicious that someone would get accepted to numerous out of state public schools?
@@shlorwhor19 I was actually wait listed at a public university in my state (I was fine with it because that was going to be my safety net school), but got accepted into a highly selective New York City university who even offered me full tuition. I thought it was the weirdest thing and was very confused by how the acceptance process works.
UPDATE: I was waitlisted because I submitted my app a week before spring semester ended so they just wanted me to go ahead and wait until all the final grades were submitted. I have since been accepted, which is great, but I still have no idea how the process works 😅
What do you mean by her activities being incorrectly categorized?
Lesson learned... write a story... stay humble
I wonder how many people actually want to go to med school, and the amount that feel pressured by their parents or peers.
The number is a lot lower than u think, unless people are lying. most figure out they don't like medicine during premed and MCAT prep and shadowing and stuff.
I feel like the process is pretty good at weeding out the people that only want to go to med school because of parental pressure
I'm a premed set to start med school in August, and most of my friends are the same. A lot of us came to it on our own or may have had parents in the industry so they had that sort of legacy to follow, but they follow it willingly. Just my experience, but ig don't go assuming all premeds are forced lol
Agree 100%
@@humphryshan9494 seems like it
Honestly, it's kind of discouraging to hear her talk about her frustrations with volunteering at the clinic. She didn't ask it straight up, but you could hear her screaming in her head, "BUT HOW TF WOULD I GET THAT CLINICAL EXPERIENCE?!" As an undergraduate student, there are very few opportunities for true clinical experience without shelling out for certifications (EMT, CNA, MA, etc.) or living on scraps as a scribe (here in my Texas metro, scribing pays $9/hr... I'm a nontrad with a job, I can't be quitting it for $9/hr...)
Nontrad with a job here too. I can’t take that pay cut so I’m going to juggle full time work with school and part time PCE as long as I can stand it.
LOL TOO TRUE. Classism rooting out the poor students who can't afford to waste time with poor paying clinical opportunities. And then AAMC keeps adding more hoops and "situational awareness tests" to rake in cash.
Non trad student here in Texas ,too. Fortunately, decided to take the last 3 classes I have left for med school. Also worked thorough college full time and what not. Now, since I am coming back and this classes I need to get A to be competitive enough, I had to move back with my father and working a scribe position. I was working a $16/hr to $10.50/hr is a huge change and I just hope that med schools see that it's not all about grades
@@deniseesqueda787 I hope so too! You sound like a super hardworking student. Good luck!!
@@vivianleenet I think we are all trying to achieve, I feel so nervous bc sometimes I see students that dont get in but have all the perfect grades and mcat scores. Tbh, I need study buddies and people I can study with.
Ah this is so interesting. My GPA was terrible after undergrad so I opted for a non-thesis masters and started working at an ER. When I applied last cycle, my cumulative GPA was still bad but the most recent 30 credit hours was a 4.0. I also had solid volunteering/community service, shadowing and thousands of hours working in the ER. Against all odds I got accepted into medical school on my first try despite that. Suppose this shows what really matters to ad coms now
Thousands of hours in the ER is very valuable I’d think lol
What do you quantify as “terrible?”?
I was just thinking about this the other day, and I am in similar situation as yours. I think md schools are look for people who are really passionate and show lifetime commitment for medicine, not just high stats and smart.
What job did you do in the ER?
Watching your videos stress me the fuck out but i cant stop watching
lol
This sounds devastating wow
I have a pretty shit GPA but the main reason I've been able to get into different internships and programs is because I'm really good at selling myself/telling people about myself.
What's your gpa?
If I get taught what I want to learn or I will learn and work well
@@not_varij 3.99
What's your GPA?
@@not_varij 2.8 😬 I haven't applied to med school so take my advice with a grain of salt but yeah
The hoops they make med school applicants jump through are ridiculous and they are only getting worse.
mhm, which is why almost every successful premed student i knew ended up switching to pre-PA
The med school admission process appears to heavily favor candidates who have the financial resources where they don't have to hold down a job and have help marketing themselves. No wonder med schools churn out so many shitty doctors.
I’m a high schooler who’s just gotten accepted into my undergrad school and this is already making me stress out about applying to medical school.
You have a good 4 years ahead of you hun, relax, love the undergrad years and enjoy every moment of it!
the good news is you still have 4 years lmao, also you can take gap years if you don’t feel ready
SAME
I’m about to college this fall and Med school applications is already stressing me
Time for some addies and compulsive research
This video is golden 👌🏼 Thanks to the young lady for subjecting herself to such constructive criticism.
This channel is not just useful for medical school applicants but also college applicants in general.
Still props to her for having the chance to apply to med schools at such a young age.
she'll learn poor girl was probably never told she was dumb before dont let me meet her lol
I have no interest in being a doctor, but these breakdowns are fascinating.
Just want to point this out, I saw a video where they presented 3 personal statements from Harvard medical school graduates. One of those statements told an amazing story about how his love for poetry and the humanities helped him connect with patients while providing treatment on a trip in South America. I’m not saying her statement was as flushed out as the Harvard graduate, but there are examples outside of hers where connecting hobbies to medicine (IF DONE WITH CAREFUL STORYTELLING) could possibly work. Just if anyone was curious, not saying our doctor is wrong, but just an interesting point to bring up.
It could possibly be that her connections to medicine were hypothetical? She had not had any actual medical/clinical experiences to connect anything to. Where in your example the person connected their hobbies to a specific clinical experience they had?
@TKO66
Did you actually read what she wrote for her personal statement? She did not weave her passion as a photographer, she spent 1 paragraph trying to push the idea that her experiences as a photographer gives her insights on what it is like to be underprivileged, or in other words empathetic.
That's all she wrote about her hobby in connect with her path to medicine. Dr. Grey is right in calling it an advertisement or fluff. Had she weaved the entire or half the statement with photography as a theme, sure, maybe that could work. But, this ain't it chief.
@@mayagriffin2826 so the Harvard statement actually made his whole personal statement going over a single experience about traveling to (I think it was Chile) and meeting patients who wouldn’t cooperate with the doctors. Because the guy knew Spanish poems from his “hobby” both him and the patient began to bond over the topic as they performed the treatment with little complications after that. He used this experience to answer the question of why he had rerouted his education from humanities to med school and stated that “they weren’t that different after all.” Maybe some wouldn’t consider his love for poetry a hobby but he did connect his humanity studies as an important tool for medicine. So idk, just thought it would be cool to bring up.
@@99nikniht , dude chill. I was just bringing up the fact that saying that “never connect your hobby to medicine” isn’t always true, but he probably recommends this considering the extent to which the student most perfect their story of connecting the two. She didn’t, and I agree with you 100% that’s it fluff, but I thought I should bring up something I found if someone was interested tif that statement was 100% true or just an opinion amongst Dr. Gray. I think it likely depends on who you get reviewing the story. Had it been Dr. Gray, maybe the Harvard guy doesn’t get in idk tbh...
@@tko6647
Apologies, my tone might have came off much harsher than I intended. I only wanted to point out that your Harvard example doesn't apply to the applicant in the video. I agree with you that having a passion that aligns with one's goal in medicine can be done if it is well thought out and rings true.
Even though Dr. Gray says it's not as much as a crap shoot as it is in the application cycle, it totally is a crap shoot and a lot of luck is involved haha. Some application reviewers/interviewers will be much more favorable for some applicant than others. I've had multiple interviews that I didn't do so well in, while I had others that I did great in but maybe other aspects of my interview day did not help me cross the finish line. Either way, thanks for sharing with possible angles in how to construct a personal statement.
Man those are top schools she applied to. I went the osteopathic route. I had similar GPA, extracurriculars, volunteered in hospitals, research, officer in several clubs. I did my years, complete residency, went to an allopathic cardiology fellowship program and passed ACGME cardiology and internal medicine boards. I work now with colleges from Yale, Brown, and even John Hopkins in a private group. Now I'm board certified in Gen Cards, IM, Echocardiography, Nuclear, and Vascular imaging. The application process is discouraging but it isn't the end of it.
The only thing you left out was curing cancer
Oh-
where did you do residency and fellowship? as a DO student I want to do IM and thinking cards
She was accepted to a great school in the next cycle. Just wanted to put that out there.
what school ?!
where
As someone who has gotten into medical school this cycle, I still would love for Dr. Gray to look at my application and critique it. He always just has such great advice and insight
EM PGY1 Here. You have some incredibly tough times ahead of you, sir. I would stop living in the past, and buckle up. The hammer is about to fall in such a manner and with such weight that you can not possibly imagine. Oh and start UWorld and questions on day one.
Lord Varys reviewing med school applications like the king that he is 😤🤞👌👌👌
Makes me wanna commit regicide
Golden comment
This applicant is very strong academically and is very young. I think this experience of rejection is going to either make her or break her with the development of her emotional intelligence and ability to accept critical feedback, as she will require that skill in medical school and in practice.
unfortunately, the situation is that you have to evoke an emotional response from the reader.
The problem is that the hiring manager wants a piece of literature from a student of science.
It is an unfair expectation. But this is how the world is now.
So you just have to roll with it.
ehh there's no real reason to pit literature vs science against each other. some of the best applications ive read were spoken very plainly and from the heart. that's something anybody can do, regardless of their department.
it's definitely true that a good application should meet both the requirements + evoke an emotional response. but just because somebody is a literature major doesn't mean they're even good at that, haha
props to her for sitting and taking all of the feedback so well. Intense but constructive
It's comforting to know that my loved ones and I are putting our lives in the hands of people who, while they may not be as smart, competent, and hard-working as this student is, can at least tell us wonderful stories about themselves and how they see the world.
Hahaha
exactly lmfao like i don’t understand why schools care SOO much about telling a story but not their knowledge of the topics and work ethic itself ??
Dr. Death had high stats.
@@dorothyc6037 And did he botch any of those assisted suicides? Any of those people end up just becoming paralyzed and suing him for malpractice?
@@skoto8219 um he didn’t do assisted suicides, he botched regular surgeries to the point some became fatal. And he did it on purpose.
I’d be willing to bet I’d she applied early decision program at her home state university she’d be accepted. Sometimes people get rejected by middle of the road schools because they want to focus on applicants who will actually accept the offer.
I was going to comment this. This video is bullshit t b h these are made to scare people and get views. You can have such high stats but you won’t get accepted unless you watch these videos and know the secrets!!!
@@ThatGoodBarbequ I feel you. But some adcoms have guys like this keeping the gate so it’s good to know what you’re up against.
Do you really think so? I'm getting so anxious watching these videos. I have similar stats but nowhere near the same amount of activities.
@@samk2001 hell yes I think so. If you want to watch these videos and take the tips he gives, thats fine. But don’t let this nonsense scare you. Be a human, not a robot. Live a life outside of being pre med. Don’t let this discourage you.
@@samk2001 it’s about how you sell yourself and what you have got! Good luck!
You guys are really gaining traction now, been a subscriber since the first video. Keep up the good work guys!
I didn't even know this channel existed!! This was so helpful, I don't have any mentors or people in my life who have gone through the process or anything similar. My uni's pre-med advisor is not the best and has given me questionable advice (like telling me to do a post-bacc when my GPA is fine and I took all the required classes).
This is the first video of yours that I found and I have your book halfway done on my desk. Small world!
And blah blah blah....lol. I don't know why any of these videos get thumbs down because they are extremely helpful! Thank you so much Dr. Gray for offering all these resources. Good luck to her!
Becuase some pre meds think only numbers matter I guess.
@@daveyjones3016 yea pretty much. They try to ride their stats instead of actually improving their weaknesses
I don’t have any clinical experience, why because the doctors in my area doesn’t allow it. Sometimes it’s hard to get someone to let you shadow them
This is literally me. The little amount of shadowing that I have was like three days overlooking a cardiologist probably less than fifty hours. This is not enough at all. I don’t like extracurricular activities at all, hence why I don’t really join them. I feel like she made up many of the things in her application. The amount of time that she has for some of the activities is ridiculous. Also I just graduated college so gap years here I come lol.
You must pay i think
Shadowing isn’t clinical experience.
aww man her activities and personal statement were atrocious. If she just works for 1-2 years in a medical setting, and tells a story, she'll do great. Hopefully her MCAT won't expire this next year
shes the wrong race
@@JoeG2324 ???
@@JoeG2324 black people still have to meet the qualifications why do people think black have a easier time getting in med school my friend had amazing grades and still got rejected
@@JoeG2324 you realize people can see your other comments? No one needs to read your racist rhetoric.
@@shergirl92 she’s not black she’s indian
I didn't make it in my first time around for medical school applications either. Went to a Caribbean medical school where I proceeded to fail. Then came back to the states, retook my MCAT and got a higher score but not stellar. My college GPA was average but I still eventually got into medical school. It's definitely possible to get into school despite not having a top application.
that’s an awesome story of persistence and resilience. congrats!
Which med school you got ?
What med school you got into?
such a fan watching these vids, whenever I have a break and eat breakfast/lunch I just pull up one of these bad boys and enjoy
Same!
Welcome to PG! I saw you at Costco today, just hesitated to greet you 😊 I'm a fan and i always watch your videos.
I’m a med student. I can assure that most of the advice in this video is unrealistic and even ludicrous. You can’t frame every lame thing you did during your journey to medicine as some interesting, eye opening novel story. And you definitely cannot do it while avoiding saying things as simple as “it taught me” or “I learned”, all while staying humble, avoiding sounding “technical”, being expressive, and sticking to the character limit.
I know jack shit about medicine, but a few things. One, if you're still a student, how would you know? Second, he didn't exactly mean that. He wanted her to dive into how the experiences affected her and what she learned. She seemed to more describe the organizations she worked at more than the specific instances of where she learned the most.
Sounds logical to me.
@@meatbleed because they're a medical student in medical school meaning they were accepted into medschool so they obviously know what they're talking about
But you can at least tell them your MEANINGFUL experiences instead of writing down resume material. Admissions needs to figure out what makes you different than the other 300 applicants with 3.9 GPAs out there
I think as a student you can have a decent idea of what the process entails, however I disagree with you entirely. I definitely think describing the experience isn't as worthwhile as going through how the experience impacted you and how you made it relevant to your story and medschool journey. I applied to medical school numerous times, and it was the activity boxes that I made the biggest changes to for the final time in which I was accepted. They, moreso than the personal statement, speak to your interests and why you actually want to go to medical school in an objective, verifiable way, whereas the Personal Statement can literally be a bunch of fluff bs. It is still wild to me that she wasn't accepted, because overall, her application is good, but I personally found his advice to be very good in this sense.
@@meatbleed I was stating my "credentials" as someone with an opinion about this video. A medical student is someone who has had to undergo the app process and consult with many others who have themselves. Some of the statements here are vague and downright frustrating. He reads an app with the hindsight that the person was rejected, then proceeds to paint every aspect of it as "cliche", recommends that people "tell their stories", and fails to provide concrete examples of what that means. I agree with the basic advice that you should tell your story in your app, but if you're trying to be constructive and help, you need to provide examples of what that looks like. Otherwise you're just bringing people down.
I was already accepted but I still watch these videos because Dr. Gray is just so knowledgeable! I recommend to all premeds!
My only struggle with the story thing u tell these students is that students willl then just work on making a story by adding fluff or drama to it. Also let’s face it some people are better story tellers than others, doesn’t mean jack on how good of a doctor your gonna be to be honest. Most physicians I work with couldn’t tell their own story to save their lives, although plenty of stories of their patients. I don’t know even years out of this process I don’t really know how these things are judged fairly. Because I know there are people who are great story tellers but honestly suck as physicians.
Exactly. Dr. Gray correctly points out that trying to tie medicine to photography is pointless. Being a good photographer does not equate to being a good doctor. I think that the same can be said for storytelling. How does being a good storyteller make you a good doctor? What is the connection between storytelling and medicine? I don't believe there is one. Personally, I could care less if my doctor is a good storyteller. I don't care how compelling his or her personal narrative is. Above all else, I care that he or she knows how to LISTEN. Certainly, it is one thing to be able to present yourself in a compelling way to adcoms. However, if adcoms are going to accept/reject people based on their storytelling skills, it is important for them to clearly define why that is an acceptable benchmark for determining who will be a good doctor and who will not.
I think Dr. Gray exposes a fact that she wants to be a doctor but really doesn't know why. I'm sure her parents have pushed her and maybe she needs to look within to be sure this is something she wants to pursue. People want to be a doctor because they think that is the ultimate achievement. Either way I think she'll be successful in whatever she does, maybe even photography.
@@kareenakapoor1320 Kareena, Please don't read something into my comment that isn't there. Parents of every culture push their kids, especially those who are well educated and want their kids to be successful.
Could not agree more. There is no hiding the cultural aspect though which I don’t think is such a bad thing all the time. Produces hard working kids with aspirations and real goals. However, many of them seem unfit socially for the role but well qualified academically which results in a lack of a deeper meaning beyond pleasing their parents or others around them.
@Shah Bhuiyan also how do you get a publication after only 50 hours of research? That’s kinda weird
@@bobii504 what is wrong with that approach - encouraging kids to dream for touching the sky ? If some body in some culture thinks that being a plumber or gig worker is the ultimate achievement and path to satisfaction in life, let them encourage their kids accordingly.
Again, who gives a fuck why someone "wants" to be a doctor. Nobody cares about why someone wanted to be a middle-manager at Citigroup, or a coder at Verizon. it's fine enough if it's a solid job with decent job security. What are they gonna change the world? They will be a cog in the great healthcare machine.
This guy is ruthless geez
god ikr, but it’s his job ig
she's the ideal medical school candidate. Her stats speak for themselves. She should have got an interview and given a chance to tell her story through an interview rather than having to write her life story in 2500 characters or less. The application process shouldn't be a writing competition. Not for an education in medicine.
She is an academic star, but lacked clinical prep for the modern medical school acceptance. All things are relative, and compared to her peers, she lacked greatly in that very important column. If 25 percent is required clinical experience, and she lacks it, why do schools need to accept her? She realizes this now. It is sad to see her fail on her application, but she was not ready, should of took a gap year to focus on her clinical. Clinical experience will give her the interactions and patient experience to know why medicine is for her. It is not all roses in medicine, and the clinic time will expose the student to the good and the bad and the ugly. My daughter has been on her gap year and working full time as a medical assistant. Every other week she is telling me about how demanding, stressful a busy clinic can be, all her other MAs are accomplished students in their gap year. For example one coworker is a 3.98 GPA with 519 MCAT from UCLA doing a gap year for clinical. Without the gap year, her experience would mirror this girl. I read this girl’s complete application and she wrote a much better personal essay, but what was key was that she tied in her clinic time to why medicine. You can not do that when you have no clinic time. BTW her friend/coworker got into USC and then declined other school interviews to help other applicants. I applaud this girl for having the courage to put out her application like this, most would not. She has accomplished what 98 percent of students can not with her grades and MCAT, but that is only a fraction of what is reviewed. She is still very young and given the right mentoring she will do great next year. It also sounded like her mentors at USC failed her, which is odd because they have great professional counseling services at USC. I guess people thought she would overcome all with her scores.
One of the biggest misconceptions is that academic stats are what produce great physicians.
Physicians are mostly actors. Usually lab techs do the real work. So you've got to be able to act well for the patients
@@scholaroftheworldalternatehist wrong
You can be great in academia, but if you don't show ability to practice or learn in a clinical setting, then how can admission boards know you will thrive and revolutionize the field? Grades can only go so far until you can show them why you want to be a doctor and at what lengths you've taken to contribute to the betterment of others.
As someone who recently made the decision to switch from medicine into computer science, seeing how difficult it is to go to medical school is unbelievable factoring in the years it takes to become a doctor plus the hundreds of thousands of dollars medical school costs and the opportunity costs. I have so much respect for those who make the decision for the right reasons, but if it’s for money or respect, it’s simply not worth it. You have to spend thousands of hours and dollars to find opportunities to beef up your application so that you even get an interview, only for you to ultimately have to take one or two gap years to even get enough clinical experience to land a school. You’re already probably in debt from college and now that you’ve majored in biology (which has practically no opportunity outside the medical field), you have to see it through. That’s not even considering how difficult medical school is in and of itself. Most of the opportunities you land to get into medical school barely pay you and residency doesn’t either. The MCAT is a 7 and a half hour exam that you have to spend hundreds if not thousands of hours preparing for plus the money for prep and tutors. I know people taking it for the third of fourth time. Medical school also focuses on brute memorization over critical thinking from what I’ve seen which is hardly appealing. I saw this study done where they factored in all of the costs and debts as well as opportunity costs of becoming a doctor compared with become a teacher at the median salary and they both averaged out to roughly 30 an hour. Landing a residency and fellowship is almost just as hard as medical school. All those years you spend trying to become a doctor, you will never get back. Again, I’m stressing the fact that becoming a doctor is a great career for those who have a passion to help people, but I don’t think this is at all worth it for basically everyone else. I hope we see changes to the process sometime in the near future. This isn’t meant to discourage anyone. If anything, I’m using it as a medium to express my concerns so I can refer back to it if I ever have doubts of my decision. If you find any inaccuracies in this, please let me know. Thanks.
I may have read this wrong but you said residency doesn’t pay? It does
@@kristinaavetisyan970 poorly, though
I am in love with Dr Gray, lots of young people think grades and their academic life will get them at the door. I am a non-traditional, mama, healthcare worker for many years, good grades but I am still scared to death.
Same here (just replace mama for dad). Don't be discouraged in the pursuit of your dreams.
I am struggling to understand this. Why, WHY do you need so SOOO much stuff just to LEARN about medicine? wtf? this makes 0 sense to me.
@j a yes thats why they spend 4 fucking years learning about it, and then 4 more fucking years doing a residency.
RIGHT
I love how frank he is
I just wanted to comment (as a swimmer myself) that swimming is a "club" centered sport. Club teams before the collegiate level are often more competitive than teams associated with schools, and club teams during college usually have a similar amount of rigor to the actual college team.
I feel lucky I got accepted in 2020. My app was trash according to everything Dr. Gray is saying. I thought when you applied you were supposed to make it like a resume, try to get the readers to understand what you were doing in each role. I was told to avoid making the app excessively narrative and avoid trying to stand out in your writing because it can backfire.
maybe the medschool u got into isnt picky
@@marvm2555 do you even know what its like applying to med schools? even getting into one is tough work
These videos with the high stat applicants are so sad to see damn
This has definitely made me feel better, there needs to be a story, not just some narcissistic pre-med
Aaaaaand more reasons I stay away from everything premed, even tho I am one myself. Shit like this is so discouraging and it’s always depressing af.
Then quit or man tf up
@@campbellstewart9938 Well aren’t you a little tough guy lmao. Ur probably the future pediatric brain surgeon oncologist that failed out of gen chem 1 and now you’re bitter.
@@AppleUploader That's harsh, I imagine that dude is now a burnt chicken nugget.
@@AppleUploader why gen chem 1? Lol seems really specific.
@@AppleUploader unless you hacked into my university’s grading system and changed my As in gen chem to Fs I did not fail
I sat on the committee at a major nyc private med school with a torch. I rarely read much of a personal statement once my BS meter went off.
Honesty is the best policy, don’t try to fluff up bs hobbies as medically relevant, it doesn’t work. Just work as an orderly in a hospital, not a volunteer candy cane observer. I put a lot more into that than the other crap.
Remember, all the other applicants have a hi gpa and good mcat, you have to be different and real.
TMDSAS video would be very helpful!
TMDSAS application next please!
I might be wrong but I think he actually did review a TMDSAS app once, it was a kid who played tennis. I don’t remember the title of the video though
@@Taylor-ex8nl he did! It was “advice to a college athlete reapplying to med school.” He didn’t really go into how to do the activities section of TMDSAS, so a video on that would be helpful.
Do you have any videos about examples of great personal statements? After watching a few videos on application renovation, I feel that most applications struggle with the personal statement
His book includes lots of examples!
His book and also the successful application videos have some good personal statements in them!
What actually counts as clinical experience? Cuz ngl, even when we apply to volunteer at a hospital or a free clinic, they end up giving us administrative work to do, unless we are a trained EMT, and it gets quite frustrating.
730 hours over a two month period I think her math may be a tiny bit off there.
meant 2 years maybe
@@jonathanlooney205 she said it was during a study abroad type program that was a month and a half long. That would be about 18 hours every single day she was there
I don’t think she is being genuine with the hours of research. Like I can see why she had so many rejections, given that the time and numbers don’t really add up.
@@Nuclearkiwi If it was 30 days, even 24 hours a day wouldn’t add up to 730 lol it is impossible for her to have that many hours
Wow this was a thorough critic. It was needed but i really feel sorry for her, imagine spending all these time thinking your doing great just to find out nothing you wrote was even worth it.
Ryan do you review non-med SOP, watching this got me nervous and now second-guessing everything. Would you be able to view mine and recommend adjustment before I submit an application?
What it sounds like from people applying is that they don't understand what the admission people want.
Sounds like there needs to be a information guide produced that gives clear information which could take one page, as these videos explain simply what is needed.
This video was very informative. I definitely saw myself in this student and appreciate the advice given.
29:20...ouch!
Who am I without any achievements?
your response is kind of self righteous you know. you don't even explain why she's wrong. She's is trying to say that without her achievements what makes her a better candidate vs her peers. Saying that you're a caring person and know how to take care of patients is expected. Just virtue signaling basically.
She got Dr. Gray this year, next year she good
28:53 was the hard truth
On TMDSAS application activities list, where you get only 300 characters (compared to AMCAS 750), is the priority to still tell a story, or should I just get to the chase and list what I got from the experience?
TLDR: story. story story story. story story. i think i’m glad now that i was a journalist for five years. writing is a major asset.
I had a 3.7 which was heavily padded by my Spanish major and a 516, I only applied to one MD school and got in
Do you look at applications of current applicants ( not reapplicant)?
I’m a surgeon almost everyone in my family is a doctor she never answered the question why does she want to do this this job is not for everybody people die you have to really understand what you’re getting into this is about way more than money and prestige
Its been a while since I took a break from this channel. While most of the details are correct on why her application went wrong, Dr. Gray is inconsistent with his criticism of her. He claims she suffers from 2 things: 1. I dont know who she is as an applicant (too much stats) 2. PS: Don't tie in hobbies with medicine. Additionally, I do want to note it seems like she applied during the pandemic, and Gray totally overlooked that (Adcoms are pretty holistic, but this is also why the pandemic cycle was hell).
Through the whole video he says I have no clue about who you are personally, which is absolutely true from her experiences. Then she tries to write a hobby essay, which is her attempt (yes it was a pretty poor attempt) of showing more of herself and he writes off the whole PS as a "hobby essay." PS tying in hobbies with medicine have worked in the past (another comment highlighting HMS PS). The problem here is there is no cohesive narrative that explains why it relates to her wanting to be a physician. (Not saying I am any better at all) The biggest problem is when you take a step back and look at the personal statement, its just 5 disparate paragraphs, the essence of her being a photographer is nothing more than a bookend.
Again, this was the only big thing I thought Gray missed, but everything else was on point.
I hope she gets in
When I review dental applicants i get the same exact problems with personal statements and interviews. They tell me a resume instead of telling me a personal story and the impact it had on them and others telling me a little more about themselves!
how do we avoid "taught me" statements?
The Personal statement is what really shot her in the foot
Coming from a tech background, it does seem kinda weird to tell a story in the application itself cuz we try to list our accomplishments and job duties in the resume and application, and that's how HR knows that we are qualified for the job. Then they invite us for an interview to know more about our soft skills and stories. But here it seems like they want to know you as a person in the application itself which is different.
Yeah it's weird but I guess the thought process is that they can figure out who's qualified enough from your GPA and MCAT but doctors also need to be emphatic which is where the stories come in
Hey you said she was early to apply in June but she didn’t take her mcat till July and those scores don’t get back till August. So her full application was not complete till August?
Psych/Soc section of the MCAT is moving towards CARS V2 becoming more subjective and less definitions/theory based. Sucks for this girl and many others who have taken it in the past year or two. I hate that the exclusionary criteria here is that she lacked anecdotes and her style of writing for a personal statement wasn't good. Would easily be able to see her personality and passion for medicine in an interview as I saw here in this 35 minute segment. Seems to me like she would make a great medical student. IF there is any non-subjective critique here it's lack of clinical experience. Re-write personal statement, get more clinical experiences, apply to better schools (maybe include DO??) and hope for the best next time.
You got to have a great story/reason for wanting to become a physician. Her application seemingly lacked the "why".
Money, prestige, and women. MDs get tiddies and DOs get hoes
I’m here super randomly haha this was recommended, I’m only 18min in, I don’t get what you mean by story then? For ex when the student talks about that consent thing, some little story is mentioned but you say that’s not a story... but then what is exactly? Genuinely curious
Is there a platform where I can ask him direct questions?
I'm currently setting up a medical school admissions consultancy firm designed to help amazing applicants like yourself. There are so many amazing applicants with great gpas, test scores, and experience that are getting rejected for ridiculous reasons. You already have enough on your plate working for those grades and research/clinic experience. Let a team of professionals do the work of studying the game of medical school applications that will impress every med school you apply to while you keep getting those awesome stats.
So did you go to med school and work as an advisor or in an admissions board for a med school?... Or are you some business major “entrepreneur” looking to make a buck?
How is 100 hours of shadowing not enough? I thought around 100 is average for matriculants.
I think because it wasn’t recent
following
@@gregengel5492 BS, if it was any time in your undergrad, it’s good to go, especially since COVID took way
Creepypasta Explained that’s just what he said my guy relax
Yea I had 75 hours of shadowing 2 years before I applied and I was accepted
Bro wtf is this nonsense I understand that schools want the “best of the best” but this person has obviously put in time and effort and has a dam good gpa and basically what I gathered is “unless you are buddy buddy with the person that interviews you then u won’t get in” there could be so many fantastic doctors out there willing to give everything they got for it but nonsense like “tell me a story that I would find entertaining” ruins it
What I've seen a lot with my own life are people my age who just don't have the passion for what they do. They choose careers clearly based on moral values and then have no clear plan for what they're going to do with it or what inspired them to do it in the first place. Honestly, if you're smart and passionless, go get an MBA, yet, even those guys are passionate about money.
Is there a way to get them to review your medschool application? Does he look into or talk about Canadian med schools?
It's in the description, and ye he reviews canadian premeds too
If making crafts with patients isn’t considered clinical, how does hospice volunteering count?... (asking because I do crafts with hospice patients and now I’m concerned it wouldn’t be considered clinical)
I think it’s the way she described the experience. I bet she definitely did interact with patients but focusing on the tasks like doing paperwork is low key a flag that you barely did anything clinical wise I think
@@jadyyang7903 I looked around on Reddit and SDN (which of course should be taken with a grain of salt) and it sounds like if you’re spending time with the patient as a companion then filling out their chart to report back to medical staff, that can be considered clinical. If you’re doing chores, errands, etc then that is more non-clinical.
I think you should de-emphasize the things that may not seem clinical in your hospice volunteering while emphasizing the more basic things that sound clinical, i.e. building relationships with patients and helping them
Based on Dr. Gray's prior Application Renovation videos, he's been pretty explicit about the fact clinical hours need to involve clinical DUTIES and not just interacting with patients in a healthcare setting. If he doesn't consider Hospital Transport to be clinical then there's no way doing crafts with hospice patients is clinical. Being in a healthcare setting doesn't make your actions inherently clinical and unless your charting is clinically relevant and part of what the patients care team has requested, it's unlikely schools will consider your experience clinical. It would count as volunteer hours which is still important!
@@rockerhoney22 okay that’s a great distinction! I’ve started helping patients with taking their glucose and checking on their pill boxes and charting that information so I think as I help out the nurses more it would move into clinical territory hopefullu
What's the procedure for outsource doctors that work in usa? Is it like engineering & nurses where you just get H-1B visa? Because it seems like going to the American system is harder to get into and pay for school?
I heard military and 9-5 lol more like 5am to...well when your done. It could be 4, 5, or 8pm lol. In my 15 years in the Marines I wish we had a set time of work. Ha
She used a lot of "our mission" was x "we did" x. And not focusing on what she did, what her mission is, etc.
Admission committee want to see your humane side too, not a robot, you can get 100% in all subject, no one cares, but you need to show your ability to interact, understand, sympathize with your patient, this is medicine not robotic engineering.
Why I believe if you don't have passion for medicine or empathy for people, don't go to medicine. My parent wanted me to be a doc but soon I learned I hate hospital environment and idgaf about people. I care less if they sick or dying. There is no way I'm going to be doc to save lives. Now my aim is to work for pharmaceutical industry.
I'd say her biggest problem by far was the personal statment by having that sentence about disappointing doctor appointments. Thats a BIG RED FLAG.
Being an emt or a scribe is also good clinical experience
imagine having her gpa Omg that's amazing.
Wow, so the genius idea for a channel! sub, liked immediatly
Don't really agree with the whole "don't tie in your hobbies into medicine in your personal statement" part (at 24:58)... This is exactly what I did (because art DID actually lead me to my interest in anatomy/medicine) and I think it can be very effective when used well. As long as you don't get too metaphorical with it and focus on how it impacted your decision or path to becoming a physician.