I never watched all of Star vs. the Forces of Evil and people told me not to cause the finale was THAT bad. Guess I'm about to find out what I missed out on...
Finale did suck bro. Worse than the Steven universe finale bro. The amount of “whoopsie we don’t have time for this” and just forget about all the plot points is insane.
Oh just till you get to Tales of Arcadia it takes 6 years of story, character development, and world building. Then the finale movie threw it all in the trash and lit it on fire.
I've always found it funny that Daron Nefcy has said that Tom was based on an ex of hers, because not only did he get more character development than anyone else, but he was arguably the most likable character by the end.
@@ezbeanz4208 uh,, did we watch the same show? I thought it was done pretty well from what I remember, and that he did get some good development. If anyone had negative character development it would be Star herself lmao. But hey, it has been literal years since I watched it last (when the finale aired), and you're more than valid in your own opinion as well.
Tom is my favorite character, he actually went through a whole character arch, got therapy realized he was being too clingy, and that he and Star didn't work. He went through so much and was a better man for it.
Now that I think about it, it really is super weird that Hekapoo was so easily chill with the idea of magic as a whole being wiped. She is an ancient member of a high-ranking council whose *JOB* is to protect and govern the magic across the universe. Imagine a secret service agent overheard someone's plans to shoot the President and was just like "yeah I see your point, go ahead. The guy had a good life anyway"
Meanwhile, the rest of the MHC is cheering on as magic nazis ready to exterminate numerous other races. I think she realized what she did wrong, and that the rest of the MHC wasn't redeemable. She made a sacrifice to save the monsters from Mina and the MHC.
Because she is ancient is that she would have more reasons to just end it. Specially when she knows all the bad stuff the council has done to "control" magic.
@@kauske I don't know, that sounds forced. She couldn't have sent all the monsters to another dimension? Even if they have the interdimensional scissors, they first need to know where they went. And I imagine that she could have taken them away
@@srmicho9492 She couldn't even handle Ludo with half a wand, and she's going to handle indestructible magic knights and the rest of the MHC? How are you going to get the monsters away from the knights? That still doesn't solve that the monsters home was stolen by Mewmans either. The magic in SVTFOE is just an allegory for a corrupt and systemically bad governmental system. That's probably why it pisses Americans off so much, lol. They don't like being reminded the land they call their own was stolen from other humans at the barrel of a gun. SVTFOE was bold to even tackle such a thing, and people despise them for it.
@@kauskeWhile the Magic High Commission had some anti-monster tendencies their primary goal at the end seem primarily based in wanting Eclipsa out and Moon back in as Queen of Mewni, not Mina's whole "let's kill all the Monsters" thing. Besides that idea would be rich considering the fact that supplementary material confirms that Omnitraxus Prime, one of the supposedly "irredeemable" MHC members, attempted to convince Festivia that maybe she should make peace with Monsters only to be stopped by *HEKAPOO.* So the idea that Hekapoo is the only redeemable member of the MHC when she has been shown to be just as prejudiced as the rest, if not more so considering she never had a moment that hinted she might've had an epiphany like Omnitraxus did, is just ludicrous and inconsistent. Omnitraxus and Rhombulous are only like this because the writers removed any humanizing traits they had in previous seasons. Also framing Hekapoo's actions as a heroic sacrifice fall flat on its face considering the fact that destroying Magic won't just kill the MHC, but *ALL MAGICAL BEINGS IN THE MULTIVERSE.* Regardless of how shitty she thinks she and her brothers have been, that doesn't mean she has *ANY* right to condemn all magical beings to death for *their mistakes.* By that type of logic, Ludo would be making a "heroic sacrifice" if he decided that it was time that he and all Monsters should bite the dust by submitting to Mina's army because some of them like Toffee and Seth were really awful people. Funny how you can justify genocide like that when you point out the bad members of a specific group. You know the Nazis did some really messed up stuff, as penance for that all Germans should let themselves be victims of genocide to make up for that. You see how stupid that is?
I wanna give special shoutouts to Jackie, a character who was mostly glossed over in this video. She was absolutely fantastic while she had the spotlight and became one of my favorite characters in the show. She immediately felt like the perfect pairing for Marco and Marco seemed legitimately so happy to be with her. A relationship could have been completely solidified and that would have been one less main character to worry about wasting time on relationship drama with. How poetic it is that the episode Jackie is effectively thrown out of the show correlates almost exactly to the moment the show lost itself. And also, I know that many people already say that Star vs. walked so Amphibia and Owl House could run, but I say Star vs. walked to the edge of a cliff, tripped, fell over, hit rocks on its way down, broke its bones, and got mauled by a bear so Amphibia and Owl House could run.
I totally agree with you. At first I was like grr I’m team starco but that tune quickly changed when it was clear how perfect Jackie was with Marco. They would have been a sweet and chill couple and I liked that the show seemed to break the stereotype of having the lead boy/girl characters date, but of course they had to ruin everything
I expected Jackie to be a mean girl, or be hiding something sinister and was really happy that wasn’t the case. I really liked how she and Janna played a bigger role in season 2.
I still think star and marco were best ship, mainly because of Blood moon season 1, but yeah I felt that they did Jackie dirty and didn’t know how to keep her and develop her, heck even jana could have used some more screen time in terms od development.
@@mckenzie.latham91 if you want to hear my idea on how to keep Jackie, maybe she could have joined the adventures and could have been trained to fight the forces of evil during season 3 and 4, like Connie from Steven Universe like, that'd be the most obvious choice
What really annyos me about the whole magic is the cause of evil idea is that one of Star's biggest lessons in season 1 was that she has to learn to not just use her magic however she wants. Now they make it sound as if it wasn't her fault, it was the magic that's causing the trouble and not Star being irresponsible.
One notable thing about SVFOE is that it’s that one show many people would talk about when it was airing, but after it ended, you don’t really see that much discussion about it unless it’s how it was after the Battle for Mewni special. And specifically, after that, two of the writers for it left the show, one being someone who wrote for ATLA (Giancarlo Volpe).
Game of Thrones got the same treatment. Like it hurts to look back on season 2 and 3 for that series and knowing how bad the finale is. Such wasted potential
The show kind of portrays and hints that Tom was an abusive angry boyfriend but it turns out that Star ended up being the worst one of the two. She manipulated him, strung him along, cheated, lied, gaslit and broke his heart TWICE. Even his MOM didn’t like her! How are we supposed to cheer for Star as a protagonist when she was awful to someone who gave her their heart?
What makes it worse is that Daron said that Tom was based off of all of her ex-boyfriends, which really makes you think who was the issue in that relationship.
@@zuttoaragi8349 the show is very reminiscent of MLB. It’s these types of Mary Sue jerk main protagonists and they’re obviously going to happen boyfriend who starts off kind and turns into as much of jerk as she is. A lot of them are also self inserts with characters like Tom or Chloe whom you’re meant to hate but can’t cuz you don’t have the creator’s bias
Not to mention, Tom was willing to change, grow, and even go through an incredibly painful ritual to help his anger issues. Tom was working on himself the whole time! Star didn't seem to grow as a girlfriend, and she kept going back and forth with Tom and Marco to the point I was beyond frustrated. Seeing someone is actively working on themselves to grow is a good sign of a decent person, and I REALLY wanted Tom to win in the end. He worked so hard.
@@christian6455 star is based on the creator and Marco on the creators husband so that why they ended up together she just teased people to much about the relationship.
@@smart.but.stupid it’s the reason there together and the real reason people are mad about was it was done badly (and Star did a genocide at the end before we finally got it 😢).
To be fair, that alone shouldn't be too bad. Lots of shows eventually write out characters if they feel like they can't do anything with them. But ya, this show had a lot of issues.
Star destroyed the magic because she couldnt see them defeat mina and her new army, saying they were unstopable. But Mina is the LAST one of the old armie, meaning that something DID wipe almost all of them out. So destroying the magic was just the easy quick solution, instead of looking in to what took out the army of the past.
@@_V.Va_i mean, seeing as it was the only way to save Mewni, its fair. they used all the strength to fight one soldier, imagine how much strength they wouldve lost fighting ALL.
And another thing that could have a solution was Eclipsa using that OP spell that killed everything that it touches, yeah, at first she didn't use it anymore bc se was tired but when she was in a good state again SHE NEVER USES IT. I think that was super dumb, like "we have this super OP spell that can destroy the army BUTTT, oh no, the poor tree and mountain now have a hole with a butterfly-shape on them, we can't use that spell anymore it's too dangerous.... Well, now we gonna make a massive magic genocide!!!"
@@Average_.AceAttorneyFanEclipsa even suggested going back and fighting themselves, she was onto something, but Moon and Star are like braindead ig, even Marco was questioning their decision, and he's biased-
I remember feeling SO BAD for Tom. He promised to change and actually went through the effort to change, gave Marco a chance, who ended up as his best - probably only male - friend. He did everything for Star, was there for support, was emotionally avaivable even though he didn't sometimes understand what was going on, and he was there to help in battle, if anyone asked him to be there- he'd be there. He didn't even get angry when he found out that Star cheated on him, even though he had every right to be! He just got more sad and confused. Instead it was Star who got angry at Tom for questioning it.
Ugh, no. Star wasn't a good girlfriend, but folks give Tom too much credit for how he was as a boyfriend. He initially seemed cool with having a birthday party for Star, but when she didn't like it, Tom ducked out and tried to place the blame on Marco. He helped Star set up for the monster party, but didn't understand why it was important to her. He helped her look for Buff Frog, but dragged his feet while doing so. He helped Marco fight Meteora, but didn't help Star, Marco and River look for Moon. He worked with Marco to cheer up Star with a Beach Day, but doesn't do much to help Star with Eclipsa. If Marco, Janna, and even Pony Head can find the time to help Star, Tom has no excuse. It's easy to blame Star for what happened, but Tom wasn't always there for her. He's just the more passive of the two.
I don't know why they didn't just destroy the wand? Since the series was so focused on prejudice and how the royal family abused their power to the point of getting the Magical High Commission to aid them in keeping control/power, wouldn't it make more sense to destroy the symbol of the royal family's power and reform the Magical High Commission than destroying all magic? And even better, they could've abolished the monarchy along with destroying the wand.They had the whole plotline about Eclipsa being bad at being queen, wouldn't the logical conclusion to that be "maybe we shouldn't be upholding a system where unqualified people are put in charge." I don't think Eclipsa's a bad person at all, i love her character, but she clearly cares more about her family than her position (again, not a bad thing, but not a great attribute for a ruler). Destroying the wand also makes sense after all the stuff with Ludo and Toffee. It would also loop around with the fact that all this mess started with Glossarick creating the wand for the first Mewmans.
@@locusruizlopez5997 Which is why they didn't do it. Why do the sensible thing when you can condemn all magical creatures to death and sow chaos in every dimension, resulting in untold calamity? You know, like a hero would! :V
The wand can't be destroyed. When Star's first wand got destroyed with that spell, it just came back to star as a meteorite and got fully recovered. The wand also came back when it was destroyed for the second time. The series implies that the wand can be destroyed, but cannot be vanished from reality like some sort of garbage u throw away haha
The threat was Mina and her army using the magic at all. Destroying the wand would be symbolic, but it wouldn’t really do anything besides that. Mina would just bat her eyes, say to herself that Star destroying the wand proves she’s a “monster smoocher”, and continue committing genocide.
Things always go wrong when the writers get caught up in the shipping. Shipping should be used to enhance the plot and the characters and make it more fun, not ruin the structure of your series. That's why I feel like writers/creators should keep their distance from fandoms, otherwise they're easily influenced.
after I read your comment, I immediately thought of the way Owl House handles its ships. you've got you're two core Canon ships: lumity and raeda, and they both get a great amount of screen time that enhances the story, not obstructs it. when I think of Owl house the show, the shipping is so far down on the list of things I focus on because the show runners are more focused on the story than the shipping fan service, like Star vs. did. when I think of Star vs. now, one of the very first things that come to mind is the messy handling of relationships, and how alot of the good story beats were thrown away in favor of shipping. I loved Star vs. when it first came out, and fell off because of the messy shipping and lost plot and character development. It still holds a place in my heart,, but it's bitter sweet because of the glaring problems in the later 2 seasons. anyways, thank you for listening to my Ted talk, watch Owl house if you haven't already :)
Basically the state of My Hero Academia, you got the fanbase who is all hardcore on the shipping while the frickin' creator himself did not want that (he does but only as a secondary element that will not matter until the very end of the story which as of now still isn't), yet the fanbase always pressuring and sometimes even abusing him to give what they want
@@karleyrae7705 I haven't seen Owl House but my partner watches it and they've said the same thing. I think why the shipping in Owl House works is because the creators are clear in what they want and are the ones in control, not the fanbase.
Star was genuinely a sweet character in the first few seasons, she had a lot of flaws which made her character a lot more dimensional but i feel like her personality didn’t really make sense in the latter seasons
Honestly Star herself was the problem, literally when Marco and Tom were playing table tennis, Tom mentioned how whenever Star plays games she always changes the rules anytime she starts losing so she can't be beaten. Despite that negative trait they took it as a fun and awesome personality quirk, but that was literally her every move. She was the first to destroy the wand in their family, honestly at that point it should have been taken away from her until she learned how to better handle and understand the real responsibility that came along with it. Star made so many choices that forced the people around her to deal with. Including when she told Marco that she liked him and that she was going away for good, that was a really manipulative power move because he has no time to respond and it'll leave him thinking about her and that unresolved mess she left behind. She got a lot of those traits from Moon, i.e. Moon not killing Toffee to avoid paying the fair price for Eclipsa's help. And then putting all the blame on her for it. Star vs. will always hold a special place for me, but as far as that last episode and really most of that last season, that is just like some kind of fever dream rather then a cohesive story line that builds from it's overarching theme.
The thing about telling marco is because of what they do in s4, star already knew from the beach day photo, that she and marco would be fine in the future. She knew she'd see him again, and they'd be on good terms, so why not tell him the truth about her crush later? When they're safe? Because she knows they're gonna be right? As she says in s4? By retconning the photo to be from the future, star looks SO much worse in Starcrushed for embarrassing marco and running off in tears despite NOT having to do that. It was a bad retcon and made her look more manipulative then the writers probably intended at the time.
I kinda just feel like they shouldn't have made jackie like marco if that wasn't the ship they were going for. They could've made it so marco only thought of her as inspiration and realize that so he would go out with star. I just want whatever ship they start to not just get axed by them. Edit: I was gonna say shouldn't not should.
It's funny how Star herself became the final enemy because, a plan of destroying the magic sounds like something a villain would do, it's like if somebody got tired of the high taxes on electricity and decided to remove the whole world of anything electronic, that's what a villain would do
I disagree on the original comment. It is absolutely not what a villian would do, this kind of move to destory a very powerful and thus dangerous device is throughout many mythologies. You can even find it in Inu Yasha, where the jewel is destroyed in the end by Kagome. In my opinion, the destruction of magic wasn't a bad plot choice, quite the opposite. You finally see that Star is maturing (a little), by willingly getting rid of her power deus-ex-machina-solve-all-my-problems device.
@@antonk.653Star literally killed at the very least 4 people, that’s not maturing that’s murder. It is very unlikely that it was just 4 though as the spells probably also got destroyed and it’s VERY likely that there were other magical beings out there killed.
The old saying "a hero is only as good as their villain" hold true with Star. I firmly believe that had they kept Toffee around as this pervasive force of chaos would have been a huge boon to the show. His loss was felt immediately.
I'd disagree. Toffee had a great run, and I think he ended at a good moment (evil if the way they killed him off was a bit iffy). There are a lot more ways a series can generate conflict than just personifying it into a villain. If they kept with a racial tensions angle, even if there weren't a big head of all evil, it would have still been a great conflict. The biggest issues were definitely the lean on the excessive shipping and the swerve that was the finale. Also refusing to follow on the sideplots they spent literal seasons building. Like, why?
@@SuperPaperPokemon I agree. I don’t think that Toffee needed to be the final Big Bad but the characters they chose to take his place as main villain had huge issues. Like I don’t think Meteora was horrible, but it also felt like she was just a completely different character from Miss Heinous so it felt jarring when she switched from being someone who was mostly an arch-enemy to Marco to being heavily tied into the lore of the Butterfly family. Like, if they hinted at that more during season two and had her change a bit more gradually I think it could’ve worked, but you ended up with effectively two different characters. And Mina, the Magic High Commission, and a traitorous moon being the final villains of season four was awful. It felt really out of character for Moon, especially considering what happened in season three and early season four. If they tried to foreshadow it better I could possibly get behind Moon’s coup, but Mina was a terrible choice for a final threat. I think they could’ve had her and her monster hatred be a part of the final season, but with her being a minion to a different villain.
It wasnt even bad that elipsa was not evil, but the forc of chaos amd star her baysitter. Like her enging as whatever democratic ruler, and that clipsa was trribl a queen, but a good person. An mina would still b a good finale villain, just have it , make less sudden, the finle did not rule the show, but what a weird way to end it. Ad not because it bad per se, its just a weird end if you dont have a spinof in that world, becaue the finale ends on a weird fuion world that makes only sense, if you hhave a spinoff, way too much new quetion an riorities in th late seasons too. An its not a bad finale, its ut weird to create the entire new conflict and world at the end to, end a show?! Thats just weird.
what's even funnier is that despite literally every other villain getting redeemed, its toffee thats considered irredeemable when he's honestly the most reasonable and justified out of all villains. Lets look shall we? ludo - his motives are concerned with nothing but selfish power, and his 'redemption arc' consists of him simply talking to his brother again and living peacefully. its even hinted that he still wants to harm star/marco all the way into s4 but he gets let off the hook with barely a slap on the wrist. meteora - tortured and brainwashed hundreds of schoolgirls for centuries and went on a murderous rampage. she wants the throne for her own gain and nothing more. what happens? they somehow magically turn her into a baby (with a spell that was allegedly supposed to kill her) and this means she's redeemed - no remorse for her actions even once, but she's a baby now, and we can't hurt a baby (also a horrible message to imply that if you had a bad childhood you can simply regress back into a toddler and relive it instead of working on yourself). mina - self explanatory. racist genocidal maniac who is somehow allowed to walk free despite just trying to kill thousands to millions a few seconds ago. no remorse for her actions. solaria - literally the most problematic character in the entire series, actually committed severe genocide, cleansing, colonizing etc, and is responsible for most of mewni's prejudiced history. no sign of remorse, but oh she smiles tearfully while looking at meteora, so all is forgiven now apparently. toffee - his (successful) kill count is literally one person (comet) which happens OFFSCREEN. and it was politically motivated. in s1 we see that he's acc willing to talk to star, its STAR who resorts to violence immediately. later even he never kills people on pure impulse, he could have killed moon easily but didn't. and when he shut down magic compared to star all it did was weaken the butterfly's magic, not destroy magical creatures like star did. we dont know much abt his motives but they're likely tied to the centuries of prejudice he'd witnessed - ofc he'd want to limit the power of an oppressive colonial kingdom. and how is he seen? oh he's absolutely irredeemable and is burned to death without anyone ever trying to talk to him or understand him. IMO toffee didn't need to be redeemed, he's more fun as a villain but when you stack him up against other villains its really uncomfy how the one (competent) monster villain is seen as a dangerous threat that needs to be eradicated while every other villain gets buckets of sympathy and zero punishment whatsoever.
@@Doug_Edwards99 For season 4, I think they should have written Seth of Septarsis into the show as the final villain. I also wish that they had further explored Toffee’s backstory and motivations before killing him off.
Star at the beggining: I am a magical princess from another dimension! Star at the end: doesn't have magical powers, is no royalty and since she fused her home dimension with Earth she's not even from another dimension anymore. Now she is just... A girl. The girl who destroyed magic and everyone who's lifes depended on it.
@@LiveLaughLoveLightYagamiyou know its bad that someone cries over an ending not because it was emotional or the show ended, BUT BECAUSE THE ENDING WAS FLIPPIN AWFUL.
I mean... isn't that the point? She is just a regular girl, or at least, she should be. it's shown many times in Star vs that the uneven distribution of power just makes problems. When regular people are given the ability to dictate the course of other people's lives at a whim, awful things happen. Sure, at the start, we're conditioned to think that Star is awesome because she's a magical princess, but as we learn the reality of magic and nobility and the inherent cruelty of both things, it should be great that she is neither at the end.
Disney seems to have really bad luck with show endings. Either they end too short or don't stick the landing. It still really hurts that Owl House doesn't even get to have a full last season.
Based on Saber and these comments, its pretty clear Amphibia is still being completely overshadowed by The Owl House despite having a near perfect transition from episodic to plot-driven storytelling and having a near-perfect finale.
My problem with the Star vs. finale is that it seemed way more interested in reaching its bittersweet conclusion than it did in wondering if it made sense. I spent the finale wondering if they were going to try bringing Solaria back, because Mina idolized her and probably could have been talked down. But then all we got was a ghost of Solaria staring _disapprovingly_ at Mina when the fight was over. I wondered if that dangerous spell was going to come back into play, but no, it just bumped into a cliff and flew off. I was wondering if Ludo's side stories throughout the seasons had been building up to a big role in the finale, but no. And then the bizarre "kill all magic and magical creatures" conclusion that Star comes up with in the finale to take out some generic magic-powered mecha army, with no buildup story of magic on its own ever being a problem before the finale. It was insane considering the story up to that point had been about Star solving racial tension between humans and monsters, only for her to kill all creatures made of magic, innocent or not lmao.
This is something showrunners have to be careful of if they have an ending already in mind when they start the show. Over time, the show might go in ways they didn't expect, and they have to reassess if the ending still works, or if it needs changing.
Yeah, Star deciding to essentially just genocide all magical beings, really threw me for a loop 😱😰 like was that seriously the best solution she could come up with 😰
Imagine if Gravity Falls built Bill Cipher up as the main villain, but then, after his appearance in the second-to-last episode of the first season, he disappeared and did absolutely nothing for the rest of the show. And now, the real main villain turned out to be Toby Determined, the newspaper editor. That's the best way I can describe Mina in this show.
The get rid of magic part makes sense if you look at it metaphorically. Magic is essentially institutional power that lets those who have it (mewini Royalty and the magic council) subjugate those who don’t (the monsters). So it makes sense to want to get rid of it in that context. It also makes sense since in the larger media landscape. We have a lot of minority villains that are rebuked as “your right but using the wrong methods “ only for the hero to then allow more status quo. It would have been refreshing for the hero to go “your right and your methods other than murder are right”. But the show never established the difference between stars magic, creatures like poneyhead and the magic counsel. To us the viewers ponyhead is magic like heckapoo is magic or the spider-with-a-top-hat is magic. so instead of saying “get rid of abusive systems of power “ it basically said “you’re right (toffee) and murder is an acceptable method of change and civilizan casualties are acceptable too” Like what the heck? Edited for clarity
@@animasuperfreakgirl Yeah, I remember seeing an AMA that asked if Tom lost his portal powers after the finale, but they said that he still has those because "he's still a demon". So those scissors tearing a hole in reality? Magic. Tom creating a burning hellgate to the Underworld? Not magic. That decapitated horse head flying around? Not magic. The rainbows she keeps farting out? Possibly magic. The thing is that magic to most people can be summed up as "things that aren't normally possible", but in the context of the show magic is "this source of power that is being hoarded by a group of mewmans in an allegory for systemic racial inequality". And like you said, they never bothered to actually explain where the line goes between what is and isn't "magic", because it is never brought up in the actual show. Personally I think it would have made more sense for Star to give EVERYONE magic, rather than destroying it. You know, redistributing the power among everyone. Especially since the entire show before the finale had been "magic is awesome and cool", before it switched on a dime to "magic is awful and bad".
The idea of wrapping up your story in such an open ended way to inspire fan content is insane to me. Even series that have closed off endings still have content made; people can take an inch and run a mile with it. People love to solve mysteries in media yes (Ex. Gravity Falls) but tying them up doesn't mean fans won't create anything. Some people actually like seeing their theories confirmed. Other people can enjoy being wrong and go back over what they may have missed. That's the point and the fun of having mysteries.
yeah.. and fanfic writers really do not need 'open ended' for getting ideas. They are a creative bunch, which is why so many authors and show writers started off in that community.
@@neeneko I remember there was this one short story we had to read for a literary arts class (forgot if that's actually what it was called...probs not) in junior high, and it's called "The Lady, or the Tiger?" by Frank R. Stockton, and its ending is left intentionally open-ended. Basically, to summarize, dude gets thrown in to a coliseum as punishment for his barbarous rule, and has to choose between two doors: one has a lady behind it, one a tiger. So the project was obviously to write what we, the reader, thought the choice made was.
There's also many fan fictions of close-ended shows that re-envision the ending so that the writer could take it in another direction. The writer often enjoys the canon ending, but wants to play with an alternate story of their own creation. So it's not like fanfic writers force themselves to confirm to the parameters of the canon story.
This is why I've never been much for films, books, or TV shows that go so far out of their way to have these very vague "question mark" endings, where just about everything is left up to the audience to decide for themselves. It's fine to leave the audience with a *few* lingering questions, but these endings, more often than not, just feel highly unsatisfying. At best they're frustrating, and at worst they feel like a complete cop-out, like the writer/director simply couldn't commit to a conclusion.
I remember how much I was happy as a teen, when I finally found a show where two main characters were boy and girl NOT being romantically attracted to each other.... And then Starco happened.
I don’t mind that, although it can be a bit annoying and repetitive. However, hearing about Star’s character assassination, I wonder why people ship her and Marco, and why the writers suddenly made it about romance.
@@SukiNoKoe but throughout the series they're seen as bestfriends, with macro even having a crush on another girl. its fair to say that Op and many others felt blindsighted when it came to romantic starco.
@@SukiNoKoeSure, if you ignore the total lack of foreshadowing, the total lack of chemistry, & the buildup of a separate relationship that conflicts with Starco.
Star prevented a genocide by committing an even bigger genocide. That is the finale in a nutshell. Oh, and a writer said the puppies survived, despite the fact they're magical creatures as well. It really felt like the show couldn't commit to their dire choice.
Magic puppies? Get to live somehow despite being a fuggin spell. The entire high commission? Death played off as nothing and used as a gag during the finale.
That seems to be a running theme with a lot of shows lately. Too scared to alienate any market share, so there's big bumper rails on plots and the series. The most glaring example I can think of in recent memory is Amphibia's Christmas episode where Anne is repeatedly asked 'What is Christmas about?' And she dodges it because the writers wouldn't just make a ten second dip in the water. She could of just said 'Well it's about this Jesus guy but it's also an important time of year for all kinds of people for different reasons - but we all agree it's a time to get together.' And if Sprig pressed it then the writers could dodge and just say: 'listen bud you'll be back in Amphiba before I could explain all of it.' Instead they leave every demographic out in the cold in trying not to offend any of them.
The finale retroactively makes you think about so many of the questionable decisions after Season 2. - Toffee being killed off unceremoniously despite it requiring Moon to use an "evil" spell from Eclipsa just to wound him - Meteora being turned into a baby which is part lobotomy and part 'dodging the consequences of a villian almost destroying the kingdom' (if anything I'm surprised more people weren't upset that she was still alive) - The Magical High Commission being discovered to been lying to the family for years yet never receiving any consequences (seriously, why was Eclipsa not more mad at them) - Marco and Jackie breaking up after being together for like a month despite him trying to date her since preschool (or was it kindergarden? it was early) Season 4 was bad but the ending to Toffee was where it really started to go downhill and I feel it never truly recovered.
Don't forget setting Marco up with Kelly, and them being a genuinely cute couple with good chemistry... and then breaking them up offscreen mere episodes later.
There’s also zero call backs to monster arm, like wtf I was really invested into that. Then they wrote out Marco’s two “best friends” because fans complained they were annoying. Seriously they couldn’t have improved their characters and made them more involved. Also I’m still not over the whole Marco being still mentally 30yrs old, has basically lived a second life but returns to earth all unchanged like it’s the status quo
One of the worst things that made me mad was that “queen” Butterfly stole Eclipsa’s throne just because she was part monster, and then we never got an actually good ending for the monsters or eclipsa. They’re not even monsters, more like misunderstood. Some are even helpful!
22:44 little fact about Toffee Saber. He didn’t hate magic at all. However it was Glossarik (alongside Baby Meteora) who made him hate magic. He made Toffee harm him, so Baby Meteora would get mad and attack Toffee, who would not only bear a grudge against the Butterfly’s, but Magic itself. So technically speaking Glossarick inadvertently was responsible for the Monster Wars, and the death of Moons Mother.
Yeah and then at the end his whole intention was apparently to get rid of magic. You know what, I'm not going to think. This show doesn't deserve my brain power.
Actually, Toffee looked like he did hate magic when he was a teen and when he got zapped by Meteora when he threatened Glossaryck, the baby just made his hatred for it worse. At least that's how I interpret that scene considering his lines were like "I told you magic was evil" when he recovered and left.
This is wrong from all aspects, dude. Toffee literally said "You see? This is the threat of magic! This is what we are at war against" after he got zapped by Meteora. So this theory is extremely FALSE. And you are dumb.
There was so much continuity ruined in the finale. For example, why does Marco have the cheek marks? All of the mystery involving Eclipsa's "is she good" "no wait, she's hiding something, is she evil?" plotlines which could have actually moved Mewni forward in a more mature way. Why did they force Starco? If the end goal is to destroy magic, was Toffee right all along? What about Glossaric teaching baby Meteora? Also, Ludo's who redemption arc was just... forgotten?
It's the Lost/Moffat school of writing, put cool plot hooks in and hope to invent a good resolution for them later. To the audience this looks like hints you would use to show off a polished story set in a developed world, so you get extra hype with minimal effort. Then you have no luck reconciling this many randomly added ideas, the plot crashes and takes the worldbuilding down with it. The speculation is fun in the moment, but finding out the setup had no intended payoff really sucks.
Honestly this. This is the reason the ending was so bad. Not just the ending but season 4 as a whole and a good portion of season 3. They built things up to go nowhere with them and then took time away from resolving those loose ends and instead built up more things that would go nowhere. The Tom/Star and Kelly/Marco were so much more interesting than starco, but iirc they spent 3 episodes forcing starco to happen instead of just rolling with what they just built up a few episodes before. And the monster prejudice never being dealt with properly. There was a really interesting storyline where the populous starts to become more accepting but it's rushed and relegated to a b storyline. I don't even hate the giving up magic angle, but they didn't build that up at all. It just came out of nowhere and left the main character having committed genocide and destroyed entire worlds that ran on magic. Meanwhile earth now needs to redraw borders, it has thousands if not millions of displaced people they need to rehome. And these are problems the show brings up when the monsters come back to mewni and take back their lands and houses. So it's not overthinking to wonder what happened to all that. The actual finale itself was probably just a sub par and disappointing episode, but as as a finale it makes the rest of the show worse because it backtracks the story, the monsters will have to deal with earth prejudice while still fighting mewni prejudice; Star and Marco are still terrible at relationships, but they're end game so who cares; Eclipsa wasn't evil so the foreshadowing with baby, the monster arm, Marco's wand, toffee's suit, etc was all meaningless; and a bunch of side characters that you really start to love all die and no one cares so why should you?
@@mlatu315 You're kidding, right? Kelly and Marco had NO build-up; she was a substitute for Star and he broke up with her because he realized this. Same thing with Tom being a substitute for Marco.
1. The best thing about the last season of svtfoe was eclipsa. I LOVED eclipsa and I think her whole story was brilliant! She was an amazing character with a great backstory, that she was shunned and painted in a horrible light just bc she fell in love with a monster, and that her daughter was replaced off the throne for being half monster, and that NONE of the butterfly family after that were the true heirs. It was great! It's such a shame that the rest of the series and especially star herself became so bad :( she became such a hateable character as the series went on,, 2. The thing about Marco getting old in a second dimension was weird. He was like 20+ in that dimension? And then he comes back to earth and he's technically not a child mentally but is a child? It's weird. 3. They killed toffee for wanting to destroy magic, and ended the show destroying magic. Meaning Toffee was right all along and he was killed for no reason. 4. Star is not only a cheater by the end of the series, but she literally commit genocide- 5. It was selfish for star to combine the world's bc like, imagine how hard it would be for normal people to deal with the mewni creatures and people in their world. It'd be such a confusing experience
They even brought up the "Toffee was right." part in the show, but just because it was acknowledged does not make it right, it was still a straight outta nowhere moment that derailed everything.
"The thing about Marco getting old in a second dimension was weird. He was like 20+ in that dimension? And then he comes back to earth and he's technically not a child mentally but is a child? It's weird." They explain that in passing, basically once he left that place, his memory of events just sort of faded away, like a half remembered dream. That's their excuse for why he was basically a action hero in that dimension but just as skilled as he was in the last episode when he returns.
I always thought that the show’s treatment of Moon was very weird, it’s like they didn’t know what to do with her. She was antagonistic towards Star and monsters and all that, but she had an entire sub arc dedicated to her and Eclipsa bonding together. But then she was revealed to be the one behind it all, until she wasn’t. That really threw me off, because it makes all of that development she had meaningless
One of the issues I had was the destruction of magic was a way too hasty decision and was made only after Moon failed to take back the magic she gave to the warriors. Yes. MOON gave them their power. With the exception of Mina, she should have been allowed to take it back. The reason she couldn't? "We pledged our allegiance to Solaria" the f**k?
Yeah this is the equivalent of terrorist taking over a city and the attempt for the police force to take it back and arrest the terrorists failed badly. Then there next course of action after the police force failed was to just nuke the whole city, sure all the terrorists will be dead but so will anyone else in the nukes radius.
@@symbiote3220 what? We're discussing how nonsensical it was to have the fact Moon couldn't take back power she gave because they pledged their loyalty to a dead queen.
my mom ADORED this show when it first started airing. silly cartoons are her guilty pleasure and her favorites are the ones that have unapologetically feminine and quirky girls in the main cast so star was right up her alley. when shipping started to get involved i witnessed her getting involved in shipping culture for the first time and THAT was wild to me as her child who once watched shows just for the ships as a preteen
I wish my parents were like that LOL my dad is the stereotypical “every cartoon is a baby show” adult person and will usually lose interest as soon as he sees that something is animated. It’s really sad tbh because he’s missing out on a lot. Ironically, one of the only animated things he will actually be happy about watching….is THE DESPICABLE ME MOVIES. He genuinely likes them but claims not to like “dumb kids cartoons” even tho those are literally the dumbest ones of all. He will be totally fine with watching Despicable Me but if Amphibia or Owl House is on he will look for the first excuse to turn it off😂😂😂
In my fantasies, the show ends on the episode where the Mewmans let Globgor coexist with them, they all celebrate Eclipsa’s coronation, and that scene of Mina’s crow never happened
“Coronation” would’ve been a much better ending point for the series in comparison to the shit fest that we got instead. Even with how shitty Season 4 was, it would’ve stopped in its tracks before falling off the cliff with the rest of the series.
Cornonation was actually an awful episode. It was emotionally manipulative, completely butchered Rhombulus as a character, was rushed, and the ribbon rooster plot point as Eclipsa had a rooster that could free Globgor in the previous episode and it was not mentioned at all in later episodes
The problem I had with the finale was that magic in itself wasn't bad, it was how the Butterflies used it to subjugate Mewni and in the process steamroll everyone who got in their way
@@youtubewontletme fr! It was not that hard, considering in that book of magical spells, (and the stories of all the previous queens and princesses of muini) show that star and moon have high stats in terms of magic. it wouldn’t have been that hard for moon if star couldn’t have done it. after all Moon has done black magic before. even so I wish it didn’t end with the destruction of magic since there was definitely other ways to handle it.
@@angeltheweirdo yea! Sure there would be a lot of destruction in the way. But make sure everyone is safe beforehand, monsters included. Then do it, the three of them, or just Moon and Star, if Eclipsa is still not recovered. Aim for Mina, (also that crazy girl needs some rest, geez) and some of the others, then you got it. While Moon and Star are recovering from the effort, go get the solarian soldiers that remain, with eclipsa's powers, and put them under arrest. They will try to put up a fight but since their leader and some companions are gone, they will be discouraged. Once all of the Butterflies are fully recovered, use magic to fix all the destruction and return to normality. The end. Happy ending. There is still magic, and they can figure out things together. Now there is no magic, and two big ass dimensions overlaped, which would surely lead to lots of wars around the world between humans, mewmans, monsters.. That could last decades or centuries. If it took forever for Mewmans and monsters to get enough territory for each(which didnt happen because magic was destroyed before they could try a final negotiation) imagine adding humans and the human world to the equation. Its just worse, and no magic to help make things easier, to help build homes wherever needed, to fix the destruction thar will happen at the beginning (cars crashing unicorns for example). Because yea magic can be bad but it can be really good too, and i feel like they didnt come to think about the consequences of the final act.
@@youtubewontletme Worse. Mina claimed they pledged to Solaria and only she can stop them....well, Solaria's ghost was right there, she could've stopped it all then and there, but they still went ahead to destroy all magic.
I think one of the main complaints by fans like me and my friends, was that Daron said she wanted to write a finale that would "inspire Fanworks and fanfiction, that people would and could play with." But what this finale did, was kill every already existing fanwork. Everyone had stories about their future princess of mewni, and this finale just made all those au impossible and ruined. What was so fun about this show was the magic, and learning how to be responsible with it, but the show just randomly decided to kill it.
Yeeeaaah, that's the major issue. She didn't really leave much of anything to play with, at all. Star and Marco are endgame, so you can't ship them with anyone else, and anything you do has to go based off of how the show ended. Hekapoo and others are dead, worlds are combined into one, etc. Who would want to write fanfics or draw fanart about that? She doesn't seem to realize she killed the series off for the fans.
Toffee was one of my favorite all time villains in a cartoon series. They criminally underused him and unceremoniously killed him off without ever fully fleshing out his backstory or motivations. Ugh. And to add insult to injury they replaced him with a Sailor Moon parody.
I feel like the sailor moon parody character was an ok final villain because she tied into the show’s theme of prejudice against monsters, its just that what they did with her was… less great.
Toffee was dangerous and trying to destroy magic that was used to oppress his people. Gets murdered by Star. Mina was a super speciesist who was trying to commit mass genocide of the entire monster race. She's allowed to skip off by herself with Manfred, not at all punished or imprisoned for her horrifying actions.
It was the moment Star just wiped out Toffee that it went downhill. Of course every other issue still might exist somewhat independent of that but it was at that moment where things started to fall apart. I remember watching the Season 2 finale as it aired and being so intrigued on how it would continue. Yea, really a bummer how it ended.
Yup and on top of that I also notice that during the first season and it’s later seasons (Specifically Seasons 3-4) had the animation being largely inconsistent with some moving smoothly like the current animated series (Mercury Filmworks) and other times the episode’s animation moves like Flash Animation (Sugarcube).
One of my biggest gripes with Star Vs was that there was already a setup for a climax that was completely different and potentially better than the one we got, but just got tossed to the wayside and forgotten. Remember that episode where Moon and the Magic High Commission were discussing how magic seemed to be disappearing, causing things to go "on the fritz"? Yeah, there was supposed to be an explanation behind that. According to some external reading material, the magic was being devoured by some void monster in the depths of the universe, and that Toffee was apparently just one of its lackeys. Now imagine if the big series climax was Star going against that instead of the downer ending that we did get.
I think we even saw that void monster in the season 2 episode "Crystal Clear". It wasn't even a small hint, Rhombulus literally pointed towards the very visible spiraling void in the sky, then told Star: "Oh yeah, there's also that problem" or something along those lines. We were literally shown the final boss of the series, and then the writers tried to brush it off as if it was never there.
@@100lovenana Ok, I rewatched the episode and you were right! They literally pointed out a giant green vortex, said that its going to be a problem, and never brought it up again! What?!?!
What i hated the most was how they handled Moon actually. She was my favorite character and they butchered her imo. One thing that was certain about her was that she prioritized Star's safety the most. And you're telling me she teamed up with Mina who wants to storm the castle where Star was? Also, they completely threw away her character development with Eclipsa and Bullfrog. She was shown actually getting along with them and understanding them, but no let's throw all that away to make her a twist villain (which they didn't even commit to lmao)
Moon was a complicated character, I'll give it that. But she has trust issues with Eclipsa if you watched late into S3 she was about to defeat Meteora, Eclipsa's daughter but she stopped her from doing that and indirectly going to the Realm of Magic. Then in S4, she saw how Eclipsa's ruling was putting Mewmans displaced at a disadvantage. Moon knew how to rule Citizens better than Eclipsa can. Her mistake was thinking she had everything under control when teaming up with Mina. Eventually, she was willing to put her differences with Eclipsa aside and help stop Mina and put and end to Magic.
@@dennisscipio I wouldn't really mention anything in S4 as I firmly believe they had already given up on any character development they had put in the story between Eclipsa and Moon, but Moon and Eclipsa in S3 literally BONDED over how much they cared about their daughters and how they meant everything to them. I don't understand why Moon blamed Eclipsa for what happened to her when all she did was try to protect her own daughter, she never could have anticipated how badly that would have backfired nor that Moon would escape to the magic realm and lose her memories for a while. Eclipsa acted purely on instinct to save Meteora and Moon, being a sensible adult who is just as protective of her own daughter, should have understood that it was never Eclipsa's intent to make Moon disappear for months or to even take back the throne.
Marco literally had more chemistry with all other love interest girls than he did with Star. Hell, he had more chemistry with Tom than he had with Star. I
What I hated was that they gave Moon some decent character development only to throw it all away with who she ends up helping. She even came to the realization herself monsters and humans are equal footing and she was helping Eclipsa uncover the truth.
Am of the current opinion that she's the unfortunate victim of a highly successful Multiverse destabilization scheme involving sleeper agents and mind manipulation, especially if said schemers did this so to undo the triumphs against Weirdmageddon and even the war against the Diamonds.
I’ll never forget how the shipping war in the fandom almost killed my enjoyment of ships in general 😅 I witnessed it on amino in horror and I used to be a multishipper.
Having watched it during its original run, the thing that really killed it for us was the moment the show decided to end one of Marco's relationships OFF SCREEN. Like okay, we were on the Starco side of the fandom, and willing to sit through these other ships. They were interesting, and the whole curse that bound Marco and Star since season one was cool but left murky waters whether a romantic relationship between them was ever something THEY wanted, and not just the work of the curse. Then the curse was broken, yay! They can act how THEY want to around each other now. Maybe they'll grow closer as friends, help each other in their respective relationships, that can be cool, new, refreshing! Obviously the show wants to focus on non-Starco ships, and we say go for it! But then they ended one of said relationships off screen. What?! You can't just pivot the story to be be about shipping and then NOT EVEN GIVE THE SHIPS THEIR PROPER SCREENTIME. Anyway Eclipsa and her family (monster hubby and baby Meterora) was the best thing to come out of that show.
aaah shipping wars~ takes me back to Naruto where a particular ship got tons upon tons upon TONS of screentime, while the other got ignored and left in the dust, only for that one to become canon and the author saying "the one that got the most screen time was a red herring." never again. >
@@alvarotavares1966er story line was in the wrong show. The writers were trying to do a fantasy racism narrative about revisionist history, but decided to make it a sub plot to the shipping, while pretending it was the main focus and ultimately cutting their ability to write it compellingly because they were devoting so much time to the will-they-won’t-they romance between Star and Marco. They should have delved fully into Eclipsa and the history of the Butterfly family instead of focusing on romance. It also left me very confused about Star’s magic. Because she was the second most powerful queen in the history of the Butterflys, but wasn’t really one herself. Which makes me wonder where her magic came from? If she isn’t related to the original line, and instead is a descendant of a peasant girl, wouldn’t it make sense for her to have weak magic considering so much emphasis was put on Eclipsa’s power and reinstating the rightful queen? It was just a plot thread I was curious about.
If this show does get a reboot, I want it to explore the consequences of the events of the finale, how Star might feel regretful and developed a moral crisis, how characters have adapted their lifestyles, etc. It should at least address how the finale has done more harm than good in the long run.
The finale should have been an hour long special. it feels like so much was left undone. one fan had a very funny idea of Ludo having one final relapse of obsessing over the wand, and Star just gives it to him since all the magic is now gone. the wand is worthless now. I can only imagine the disappointment on Ludo's face when he tries to use the wand... and nothing happens. Lol
Not to mention that Ludo didn’t play much of a role in Seasons 3-4 following "The Battle of Mewni," and just became a minor incidental character. Even in "Ludo, Where Art Thou?" I initially thought he still wanted to seek revenge on Star and Marco but in the Season 4 episodes, "Princess Quasar Caterpillar and the Magic Bell" and in "Cleaved" he doesn’t focus on Star and Marco anymore but just focus on fixing his relationship with his brother and regaining the castle, which is fine but it just "retcons" the ending of "Ludo, Where Art Thou?"
They know the popularity of starco, so they wanted to make it. Probablay starco is one of the reason why this show became popular even in my country. By the way, I've still see starco pps on social media ( with wearing football team jerseys)
Something that always bothered me about the ending of the show wasn't just that "destroy the magic" came out of nowhere, but that it also felt like a betrayal of a lot of the show's themes. That for a show that was so centered on understanding the perspectives of others and for how many times on the show the real answers to problems lay beyond violence, Star just decides unilaterally to destroy magic. It seems like such a rash, and short-sighted decision to solve a problem that is only effecting Star's kingdom and only at this moment. You know as this wellspring of magic connects to an endless number of worlds, there have to be places where they rely on magic to treat terminal illnesses, to make crops grow, or where hordes of monsters or horrific natural disasters are kept at bay through it's use. As the worlds seem to have interconnected trade there must be places where essential supplies or relied upon goods are suddenly cut off. As we see so many magical creatures there must be places where entire races of creatures or intrinsic parts of people's cultures will be erased and all because Mewni can't be responsible with it's magic. If you wanted my idea for a sequel or continuation (not that it seems likely to happen), on some far away world they stowed some of these golden, magical waters away before the destruction as part of some ritual or rite or matter of habit and due to being sealed in some fashion they are not destroyed. Somebody from this world is trying to get the spring flowing again, meeting with various failures to do so and visiting various worlds to try to find answers, only to find disaster after disaster after disaster and a lot of _piiiiiiissed_ people who would very much like to have a word with whoever shut the magic off. Some of these characters would want Star dead but our main explorer here just wants her to start to atone by turning the magic back on. Badabing, there's your basic bones for some stories. Daron, you can hire me, I'm not busy.
Yes! The interdimensional trade issues caused by this stupid decision weren't talked about enough by disgruntled fans. Like, these effects likely culminated in many genocides rather than just the magical creature genocide. Star's body count puts Stalin to shame.
And with an infinite number of worlds, there are an infinite number of dimensions where Hitler-like figures used magic to obliterate an oppressed people, just like Mina in Mewney. There are also an infinite number of dimensions where there are magic based terminal illnesses, like the wounds inflicted by Mina's magic sword too. You can't use infinite parallel dimensions as a counter to doin something, because it will sing right back to balanced. There are also an infinite number of dimensions where a magical girl will destroy magic, Star just did it first.
She can hire me as well. I’m like a professional artist/writer of my creations and doing many Disney projects of art style and writing. I wanna do cartoons because I grow up in the 1980s/1990s. I dream to become a cartoonist to make great things I grew up. Even making a crossover adventure. It’ll be awesome to work in animation.
Though the elimination of magic was one of the many things that shows series finale got wrong, there's one aspect of the finale that pissed me off! But yes I also liked the first 2 seasons. Some episodes had really creative concepts (like the puberty episode), I liked the fun continuity episodes, like visits to their own version of Best Buy and the creatures inside the wand, but from the beginning of the show, Star was taught by her mother of a legacy of previous queens in their family linage and for the whole series we only focused on two; the queen who you weren't sure you could trust until many episodes on, we find out she's a victim of circumstance and the Sailor Moon replicate, who was completely insane. Anyway, what made me mad was when Star and her mom are in the process of destroying the realm of magic, and their descendants' spirits help them, and its here I thought 'OMG I'm supposed to feel something here and I feel absolutely nothing.' The show NEVER goes back to all the other queens or their history. We don't learn about them as characters, what their personalities were, mistakes they made, triumphs they had, just NOTHING! That's what the show should of been about! Not only a lighthearted comedy with magic and evil bad guys, but learning about prejudice through Stars' own family's history, from each queen, and how they could extract lessons from things that worked and things that didn't work. You know, gain insight from the past to improve the future. NOT team up with the Sailor Moon lunatic just because you think its 'the only way'. (Looking at you Moon Butterfly!!) Such a let down.
What sucks is that I honestly just feel nothing for this show anymore. Like I can’t even look back and feel an ounce of how much I used to love it because they dropped the ball so unbelievably hard. This show for me was the definition of getting super invested in something you had every reason to believe was going somewhere, and then to just have it all fall off a cliff, never to be seen again. Watching clips of the show used to make me smile, now it just makes me feel stupid for having once been so invested in it.
The fact that Saberspark got into the show with so little expectation, then the show proceed to lifting his expectation and then breaking it say a lot about how worse it did turn out
I have been saying this for YEARS, Star leaving Earth would be so much more heartbreaking if she didn't confront Marco. If she just left and Marco realized after the fact
they wouldn't realize and would have no way of realizing because she never really made any sign saying she did. It would be more like realizing he liked her instead. Since star gave 0 indication of actually liking marco in front of him and even pushed him to hook up with jackie. The viewer would be able to tell but unless marco gets into that diary again he's not gunna be able to know unless someone tells him.
@@nyanya2757 I meant if he realized she left later. Obviously he wouldn't have learned she liked him unless she told him. But it would've been more heartbreaking if he like went to go check on her or something and she was just gone
The worst part of this show was that suddenly Star hated magic and just shut off what made the show cool, including the little creatures in her wand that had a few of their own episodes. I thought that was messed up how she did that for seemingly no good reason.
Maybe the army of genocidal rampaging magical knights was a good reason to axe off magic... Or the spells in the wand that could 'destroy everything' if they ever got out. I kinda got vibes that magic was an overall bigger problem than it was worth by the end of the series. It was mostly used by the elite to oppress everyone else.
what was the point of allowing her to get more mature if at the end she would make the impulsive emotional teen choices when she was needed the most? It wouldve been easier if the three of them queens used the destructive spell once more
Another issue was that the show was still being written and produced as the show was airing. As in they changed plans for the show as influenced by Fandom and hype. They most likely didn't have a end set in stone yet and wanted to have an ending full of fan service. However instead of pleasing everyone they ended up pleasing no one. They put shipping and fan service over good story telling.
Exactly. Darren should have focused on making a good story rather than trying to please fans. If she already wanted Star and Marco to be end game then that's what she should have been developing instead of the shipping war that happened at the end
@@Alondro77 it's just like how Steven Universe didn't have a clear outline in front of it. It was just a mystery all around bc they wanted to subvert expectations so much
it seems like daron wanted to sustain the fandom at the expense of the show. many great shows do not have strong fandoms because there is not much to transform from the canon. they are great as-is and dont inspire a lot of fan creation/transformation. i believe daron creating an unsatisfying ending that left things open ended was her way of trying to cultivate a stronger fandom culture for after the show ended. this backfired and made many people lose interest completely.
Yeah, the reason why shows like Steven Universe, Amphibia, and I'm sure The Owl House will have long sustaining fandoms for years to come is there's plenty to enjoy from the universe and world building of the properties. So even when concluded and most plot stuff is wrapped up, there will always be stuff they can mess with within the universe and with the characters. You can't do it with Star as much because A. The universe of the series went from large and vast to a single dimension thats much less interesting in comparison. B. The cast also is now smaller because characters from other dimensions are gone forever or dead. C. Magic is gone, one of the show's main appeals is gone so everything is much less fun to play with. And D. Theres so much fundamentally wrong with the end and series that even if you do wanna play with the no magic mewearth, most of the cast just isn't likable enough to want to do more with and the world. Had the ending been better, im sure we'd see comics about the past queens, fanart exploring the characters as adults, takes of star's new adventures to other dimensions.... But without magic and the other dimensions? After star just committed genocide? After finding out toffee and the blood moon had weak explanations? The focus should of been always put on the show first and foremost, if the show is good and it leaves enough to play with, there will always be a strong fanbase behind it still making stories. But if you upheave the world and make everything much smaller and less interesting, on top of ruin the majority of the characters, then why bother? Even shows with considered bad endings like SU and DP still maintain a fanbase because their worlds are rich and there's still a lot to explore in them and they didn't ruin all their characters. You can't let every mystery be answered by the fans and upend the world of the show and expect that to appeal to the fans long term. I get it, but had this show ended with star being queen or something, no magic removal, no combined worlds, we'd probably see the fanbase still kicking with work today.
One problem that I think Star suffered from was that it’s early seasons had such a great balance of hilarious shenanigans and intense drama and world-building. The fact that most of season one was goofy made the few serious moments and the intense finale all the more shocking and unexpected. Season two did this even better and kept plenty of fun episodes while also throwing you some great dramatic moments. (My favorite episode of the show exemplifies this, “Bon-Bon the Birthday Clown” which is hilarious, has great character relationships and development, and ends on a serious downer of a cliffhanger) But then you get to season three, where the show shifts almost entirely to Mewni, and you end up with a show that’s kind of heavily continuity-driven, while still feeling episodic. And it feels like a weird hybrid of trying to be more serious most of the time while still having humorous moments, but it starts to fall flat in my mind. It feels like it’s moving too slow and the character development isn’t as strong, while also being less fun and funny. It starts to lose steam both as a dramatic continuity based story and as a comedy. Season four also had this problem to an extent. There are still plenty of moments in season 3 and to a lesser extent 4 that I enjoy, but I think the lack of focus on the sillier and more slice-of-life antics made it clear that the writers weren’t the best at drama or storytelling. Without the contrast of the goofier moments the dramatic moments and relationship stuff felt less special. Also the pacing got really bad. Season two moved at a somewhat brisk pace without rushing, which made it feel to me like a better Steven Universe. But once we get to season three, things slow down, and so much of the Starco stuff feels really dragged out. Like, I honestly think they could’ve saved the show by doing all of the Starco stuff in season three, like breaking the curse and getting the two of them together by the finale. That would’ve given season four more time to breathe in other areas. Certainly there are other issues, like the lack of long-term story-planning, the subtle decrease in animation quality, and how even though Star got less goofy, which the show treats as her growing more mature, Star really doesn’t grow as a character and stays pretty static and selfish. Also Marco went from an amazing straight-man and likable character to a jerk. It’s a shame too because there are moments in the final two seasons I do really enjoy, but as a whole it is a step down and does make the previous seasons not as good.
Also, the cool lizard enemy guy was killed off because the voice actor was thought to be dying from cancer at the time. That turned out to not be the case, and that likely helped make things go horribly awry in the later seasons.
@@crazyluigi6664 I agree. And even if they didn’t want to bring him back in the present day, they did do a time travel episode that only very briefly showed a past Toffee. I think it could have been very possible to flesh out Toffee’s motivations.
@@kaloo22b Yeah. Honestly Mewni is pretty boring as a setting. Like some of the political backstory is interesting and some of the allegories for discrimination are ok, but as a whole Mewni is just a generic Medieval era kingdom. The other dimensions are much more interesting and a lot of the charm of the early seasons was seeing these magical Mewni characters in a mundane Earth setting.
@@kaloo22b I completely agree. The way that Jackie broke up with Marco was awful and a great example of how later mistakes of later seasons of a show can retroactively “ruin” even the good parts of a show. I still really enjoy season two and the way they built up Marco and Jackie’s relationship and I enjoyed how they fleshed out Jackie’s character but it isn’t as enjoyable knowing that Marco and Jackie are gonna break up and Jackie will just vanish, until late into season four for one last appearance. Also, the way they forced Marco to abandon Earth in order to permanently move to Mewni and become Star’s squire made no sense. Marco has a pair of dimensional scissors and can travel to Mewni as much as he wants, so he could still go to Mewni and have adventures with Star while still living on Earth and going to school.
Hadn't watched the show before, but I heard bits and pieces of it and how magic was destroyed in the end. When you mentioned that Star's spells were alive with lives and kids, I started thinking "Huh. Maybe magic was destroyed because it forces these sentiment beings to be used as tools, and now without magic they'll be free?" Was not expecting the actual answer to be that they all just died lol.
This sounds like a much more satisfying answer to the problem the show presents. Destroying the ability for anyone to *control* magic, good or evil, rather than destroy it. Magical creatures can life peacefully as they are. Idk I’ve never seen the show, but usually mass genocide isn’t something the hero character does.
@@HumanPerson_final I almost wonder if perhaps there was some drama in the writers room that lead to the writers deliberately sabotaging the ending... (Not sure but it sounds like maybe whoever it was on the team that kept the continuity on point was let go....)
Kim Possible did it right. They built up Kim and Ron's relationship over three seasons, ended in a movie where they make is official, and upon getting a Season 4 by popular demand, just kept them going strong, focusing more on Ron's Monkey powers and other loose ends.
Yeah Kim possible did a real good job of tying up loose ends and plot points by the end of season 4 the only our show i think did that as perfectly was jackie chan adventures which wrapped up all plot and loose ends by its end in season 5.
@@YujiUedaFan Oh yeah, true. *SPOILERS* (Even though this show ended almost 16 years ago 😅) Aside from Ron killing Warmonga and Warhawk in the finale, there were no other confirmed deaths on the show
So, to sum up: -Two worlds were merged together and altered DRASTICALLY -Thousands of people, monsters, and more have had their lives uprooted, and the culture shock will likely ironically cause even MORE problems, going against what Star was fighting for originally (trying to bring monsters and mewmans together, and cultivate peaceful relationships) -And our 'heroine' committed *GENOCIDE* on a grand scale, given how many magical beings, *including her own spells* we see in the show. Not to mention the fact that there are some problems that could *only* be handled by magic... ...but our main couple gets to stay together! HAPPY ENDING! >:/ Yeah, nuts to Starco, and nuts to the writers for shoving the couple in our faces over everything else.
Basically mewmans are doomed. They don't have magic and authorities against monster 's stronger physical attributes and human 's firearms. This aslo will cause years of war from 3 side and without magic, this lovely couple won't stand a chance.
I worked on the animation team that developed the style for the first ten episodes. Due to REASONS (insert NDA here) the show was moved to another studio overseas. It damaged my relationship with animation for the rest of my career. I had been looking forward to working on this show for 3+ years (my entire career at that point) and when it was taken away it completely changed how I viewed the industry and what it truly meant to be an animator in Canada. It doesn't surprise me that it started falling apart after the first few seasons. The team for this show was focused on the wrong things.
So that was the reason why the first season looked so different from the rest of the show. With a thicker line art, a more 'fluid' animation and overall more movement. That's such a shame, I wish it stayed like the first season's
I always felt that Season 2 was the strongest because it was very character driven and Star was constantly going through bad emotions as the season went on with her feelings for Marco and the most underrated plotline with her losing the book and having to grow up plus paired with her inspection you saw how she was growing and the season ended perfectly
Season two was the best indeed, but I think that ended up hurting the later seasons even more because they couldn’t keep up the momentum. I love the season two finale, but honestly while Battle For Mewni” was solid it didn’t completely live up to the hype I had after the end of season two. Like after a whole season of slowly teasing the return of Toffee, he finally comes back through Ludo and demolishes the Magic High Commission. I thought he would posses Ludo permanently from then on and try to overthrow Mewni. Ultimately the show when it finally returned for season three Toffee ended up still in the background as the focus shifted back to Ludo invading Mewni, which still lead to some decent comedy, but it ultimately was underwhelming. It would be like if Avatar the Last Airbender followed up their season two finale with the characters coming back to Ba Sing Se and overthrowing Azula in like five episodes with a more comedic tone as season three started. Wouldn’t that be disappointing? But yeah, as much as I love season two it does suffer from later seasons failing to follow through on some of it’s best parts. The way they built up Jackie and Marco’s relationship was super good, so it’s a pity they broke them up at the first chance they had early in season three. Like, I’m not opposed to them breaking up but after you’ve built them up for two seasons I think you should have at least two other episodes building up why Jackie would want to break up with Marco, or vice versa.
I honestly prefered Ludo over Tofee, specially after his character development, soo I was happy that he survived..... IF ONLY THEY WOULD HAVE USED HIM @@Doug_Edwards99
I was worried about the ending by the end of Season 3. The show really started to meander and it felt so clear that the team wasn't sure where they wanted to go.
I can actually agree on this. I'd have to rewatch Star VS to completely remember my reasons why, but for a show that I loved so much just like TOH and Amphibia, it hurts seeing how the shows all get cancelled and cut short, even if this is what the creators apparently intended. I do really hope we get to see more from the world, since that was something I always wanted to know of, more about the past queens of mewnii (I know there's apparently books about them all but I haven't gotten them myself and don't know if I will)
Fun Fact of the day: Star’s actress, Eden Sher, played Sue Heck in The Middle, and Marco’s voice actor, Adam McArthur, went on after this show to get the lead role as Yuji Itadori in Jujutsu Kaisen (I’m happy for him 👏👏)
For me, SVSFOE ended at Battle for Mewni. Also, I noticed how the animation went from smooth, bouncy, colorful, pretty to bland, stiff, and desaturated. I mean S1 had great shading and smoothness.
Didn't I comment this in Blue Order's video "How Star Vs Foe fell from Grace" if you Agree with me that's completely fine but you don't have to copy word per word :P
Two things. For starters the whole destroy the magic thing came out of left field and felt like an excuse to do something drastic to change things up. There was a lot of foreshadowing to a big war where Marco and Star would've picked separate sides in the first season so the whole destroy magic was just a slap in the face to that. The other issue comes from its main antagonist of the season, Mina. She barely makes appearances before all of this and never really pushes the story where as Moon did. It feels like after Meteora they didn't really have an idea for where to go from there and honestly season 4 to me felt so confusing to follow at times. It wanted to push Starco and in the end harmed the end product.
It's like the legend of Korra. Each season had to be distinct because, from the start, even getting more than that first season seemed impossible. But it kept going. So it got hurt a lot by that development.
You really hit the nail on the head with Star and Marco. I think their friendship was awesome and I also think it could've been great representation of the idea that boys and girls CAN have healthy relationships without them turning romantic. There are a lot of people who do believe that the opposite sex can never be close friends without it turning romantic, which I don't think is true at all. Star could've sent a message to its audience that boys and girls can be best friends, love each other platonically, and still have romantic relationships on the side. There's nothing wrong with shipping Starco of course, but I've always felt that their friendship was more organic and interesting than their romance drama. I'm sad that they threw all that potential away to have the "main guy and main girl end up together" overtired trope. It truly did feel like they were going to subvert that, and then they played it completely straight. Once again, there's nothing wrong with the main guy and main girl ending up together trope, and I've seen it done very well. But it's not going to work for every single show, and not every guy/girl friendship needs to turn romantic. In my opinion, it really didn't work well for this show and these characters.
Sadly, the generation the showrunners are from have the romcom idea that growing up means your parter is your best friend and family, which also means growing up involves breaking those old connections. Now that is starting to break down with people discovering just how toxic it is, but for a while there it was the romantic ideal.
Eh to me it always felt obvious they were going to end up a thing at some point. Though I wish it happened around season 3 so more focus could be put on other things.
I feel like Jackie was such a waste of a cool character. She added a surprising amount to show when she and Marco were dating. She bounced off the other characters well and was a strong emotional support for Marco which helped him to grow his confidence. I’m sad that when Marco broke up with her she basically disappeared from the story. She could’ve been great addition to the secondary Earth characters. On the other hand, I glad Jackie was mature enough to have a clean break up once Marco admitted he had feelings for Star. She avoided getting caught up in the relationship drama that hurt other characters like Tom.
Aside from the narrative stuff, I was mostly annoyed about the shipping. I just, for once, want a boy + girl who stay friends. I enjoyed seeing them get along like a house fire (and setting a few) while seeing them have relationships outside of each other. Marco being a Latin Lover Boy with the various girls and that "did they" thing with Hekapoo when he had an adult life arc was incredible. Star helping catalyst the change in Tom to try and be better so they COULD have a better relationship. But no. We can't have anything nice and have to reinforce the "boys + girls who are friends will always end up together" stigma that likely causes a LOT of entitlement based grief when growing up.
@@catscanhavelittleasalami And it was so obvious it would be a terrible plotline by how they introduced it. They just cut to a character straight up telling us that Star love Marco. Yeah, great way to develop your characters. Speaking of which, the show has a creepy obsession with "developing" their relationship under duress. "Tell everyone how you feel or you'll all be crushed in a box!" "You have to be together because of a Satanic moon!" "Kiss or I won't let you out of the photo booth!"
One of the big problems with the show (in terms of shipping) is that it looked like they were actively going the platonic friend route. There was a big thing about rejecting the Blood Moon and it was an important point for Marco (who btw is technically in his 30s) and Star about choosing their own future. Tom deserved better. Also what’s up with Marco’s cheek marks I feel like that was supposed to be important.
@@deen7530 IMO that could've been used in an interesting way like actually setting him up with Hekapoo in a stable relationship with viewers discovering how that happened in "filler" episodes about the past. They could've touched upon how his sudden immaturity in the normal realm actually causes problems between them. Hell, he could have had a sidequest about unlock his adult form at will to both solve that issue and become a more useful fighter in the finale. Because seriously, he spent 16 years chasing after her and the fact NOTHING comes out of it is just wasted potential for no reason.
This show helped me make one of the most important friendships of my life. We were a bit shy around each other until she showed me her Star necklace she got from a comic con. When I saw it and she asked me if I knew who that was I started singing the theme song and she joined along. Even though we both acknowledge that the ending was terrible we’re still going strong almost 7 years later. So at least I can credit the show for giving me someone and something very special.
Heyo same! I was super active in the fandom when it was airing and to this day I still have a group of friends from my time there. We all discussed the finale too, we were super bummed how it turned out but at least it gave us something good, finding each other ^^
Part of what makes that particular face in the thumbnail my favorite frame of animation is that it can be used to perfectly describe the shipping drama the show had to go through. And that's coming from someone who's just binging the show right now.
@@joshwright4799 How so? Literally half the show finales or conclusion movies made in the past decade were disappointing. Hmmm, lets see just from the top of my head: - Samurai Jack Season 5 - Castlevania Season 4 - Game of Thrones - Hey Arnold Movie - Rocko's Modern Life Movie - Dexter - Two and a Half Men - Office - Lost The point is, it's very easy to screw things up. So it's no surprising. It would be more surprising if they didn't screw things up.
I honestly did not care at all for the pairing of Star and Marco. Best friends becoming lovers is far too common - and while it works most of the time, there are times when it just shouldn't happen. Star and Marco were one of those cases (in my opinion), mostly because they had almost completely different personalities. Also, Marco already had Jackie Lynn in his life; and the two were perfect together. Why couldn't they just have Marco go to Star's world because he didn't like how things ended between them, and not because he actually had feelings for her - and Jackie promised to wait for him. That way they could have reunited in the end, and Star would have Tom by her side.
I wish! The creator (Nefcy) is Star and her husband is based on Marco so it was inevitable. Though Jackie seemed to be based on her too, idk who thought of this idea in the first place. Coupled by the fact Tom is based on her ex.
Really I more interpret it as Marco liked the idea of Jackie, I would say Jackie and Marco didn’t have that much in common either remember they barely spent any time together. To be honest at the end when they said they liked each other I was like this is not the time got damnit.
I just realised after watching this that, Eclipsa was crystalized for just being with a monster but Moon was just let free while she caused alot of destruction by helping Mina and got away with it with just forgiveness. I mean who here is in the wrong more, Eclipsa or Moon? They did Eclipsa dirty.
If I had a nickel for every show that aired its finale on May 19th, 2019 that started off as a smash hit with a dedicated fanbase but ended up angering literally everyone with its last episode, I would have two nickels. Which isn't a lot, but it's weird that it happened twice, right?
@@ethank6452 This is one of the most shocking coincidences I've ever seen. Two shows managed to have endings that pissed off everybody at the same time. Unreal.
I don’t blame the creators for the open-ended finale, but the execution was very lackluster. Magic itself being blamed for all of the issues felt like a random conclusion and drama point.
and murdering the entire MHC just felt so off. In fact leading up to their deaths it felt like they suddenly got dumbbed down. ORigonally they were depicted as entirely proper and heroic even. I mean goat guy even sacrificed himself. But in the final season they just start unreasonably hating globgor, eclipsa, and monsters desite being closer to monster than humans themselves ... but they're just suddenly depicted as mega unreasonable and stupid as if to make it justifiable when killed off screen.
My main problem was how much they tried to force star and marco together. Hell the fact that the main reason for combining their worlds was so that star and marco could end up together in the end really rubs me the wrong way.
@@ezbeanz4208 But destroying the magic was just such a bad idea. Destroying the literal element the show is based around, and virtually ALL of Star’s development came from. All those episodes of Star learning how to use magic, literally saving all of magic itself, and gaining her butterfly form and mastering it, all for nothing. Its like if at the end of ATLA Aang took away everyone’s bending forever. Its just extremely unsatisfying.
Two things that happened with Stfoe that I hates was Eclipsa not being related to Star and Star destroying the magic. These two things are things that ruined the show for me
This isn’t that important, but I REALLY hate how they treated the magical high commission. ESPECIALLY Rhombulus. He was one of my favorite characters in the show. His introduction into the show Solidified my love for his character. He was a guy that went with his gut all the time and made rash decisions. But when star in season 2 made him reflect on his ideas (which mirrored hers in a way) made him stop and think! He formed a fun bond with Star! It was like an older brother or fun uncle type mentor figure for her. I was really hoping they would keep that idea and energy up, but they made him a raging racist. I would be fine if they made him a villain but realize slowly that what he is doing is wrong and go to Star for help again! It would’ve been more impactful then just having him die a jerk. They gave so much hype of the MHC, but never played with introducing more backstory too them. We don’t know why Rhombulus and Lekmeth had a close bond, we don’t know why this and that happens with the MHC. It feels unfair to not only assassinate theses characters as a whole, but to kill them off as a j o k e. The only one redeemed was Heckapoo, she was the only one who stayed the same, still died due to this ending. Really I am just mad they wasted so much potential on such good characters, to assassinate them, leave most in the dark only to be brought up or referenced once or twice. To destroy GOOD relationships all for the sake of one. And to create a messed up plot with just as many holes in them. They built it up to 2 and fell off h a r d after 3 & 4. It really ate me up inside when my favorite characters either became jerks and died never to be redeemed, or was just unjustly shafted out of relationships cause of “starco” purposes. The finale was a mess, Toffee should’ve stayed, the MHC should’ve been worked on more and (redeemed), and the shipping stayed on the side lines. For now all I can do is pretend that season 4 doesn’t exist and re-watch the first two seasons.
Yeah the mistreatment of the MHC is one of my main sticking points to. IT would be fine if they were at least given development as villains and went out in an epic finale ... but instead they're just made into raging racists again monsters (despite looking like monsters themselves) with no reason given as to why they think this. ANd then they're shown just partying at the death of innocents before next being shown killed off as a joke. IT's such a slap in the face if you liked any of their characters. NOt to mention other characters like Pony Head are just ... okay so what is or isn't erased is SUPER inconsistent.
My main gripe was how they treated magic at the end destroying everything they built upon. But reading the comments, there's just so many different kinds of reasons people were mad at this show about. It's honestly very interesting - I was so disappointed at the conclusion at the end I didn't even watch the last episode. I've never done that before. I was actually surprised but relieved that I wasn't alone.
I've literally spent years working on what I call my "Rhombulous Rewrite" just to fix his arc. I actually came back to this video specifically to get inspiration and remember how angry the show made me so that I could finish the final parts. Glad to see more Rhombulous fans out there.
@@dangernoodledee111 Out of the entire MHC he was my favorite! The episode of him and Star bonding, showing how irrational and immature, but good natured in his heart he was made me love him even more. I was heart broken to see how he was re written. And I was hoping so bad near the end, they would flip the switch and he would just go back- cause him and Star were friends! But it’s unfortunate that it never happened and he just died in the end being a raging racist. I would love to read your re-write though! Where can I read it?
I really hate that in the prior episodes, Glossaryck says that he thinks the magic is in good hands, and then in the finale he says to Star that he thinks she did the right thing.
Star destroying magic also makes us question why Toffee was killed off so quickly if he was doing the "right thing" according to the show. It kind of leaves a bitter taste in my mouth, because if they were going this direction anyway, why didn't they just use a perfectly good character to drive this idea further? From Toffee's perspective, magic was being used to kill his people, which is such an organic motivation for him. Star making the same decision last minute after seeing for the longest time all the good that magic can do just feels forced imo.
I think it's more malicious that all the shipping was done to string along *everyone* when in the end none of it actually mattered. It says something when you feel more for the characters your main characters were with then you do with the main characters as a whole. Every relationship felt worthwhile except the one we were eventually given in the end. Go figure.
I think I stopped watching Star after S3 and just never bothered to catch up, but I know about the ending and all the shipping drama. It’s definitely a shame the series lost focus and fumbled because it had a fun premise and Star has one of my favorite designs for a main cartoon lead, and her voice actress is wonderful at showcasing such cartoony energy! Micheal C. Hall as Toffee was a fantastic pick, for those who recognize him he was the lead in Showtimes Dexter. He’s got a fantastic voice, he should be voice acting a lot more in media.
It was confirmed by Dominic, the producer that the show was being written as production went along. This writing method works if you're writing a fun cartoon like Spongebob, but if you write like that for a story-driven show like *Star vs. the Forces of Evil* - that's a huge problem
The creators of Venture Bros have gone on record to say they made the entire show up as they went. They were just really good at remembering all the threads and skilled enough to weave them together in the moment to make it seem like it was planned that way all along
Unfortunately, that seems to be Disney's MO. They did the exact same Thing with the Star Wars movies. They were literally writing them as they were filming Them. Daisy Ridley is on record saying that the issue of Ray's parentage was still being decided as they were filming episode 9... It's no wonder the franchise is in the toliet at the moment. 1 Not helping matters is the fact that anybody who did have an idea of what they were doing Was kept away from the Star Wars movies, And basically NDA'ed or threatened into submission, and that the people in charge of Lucasfilm are political activists, not even qualified executives. In a more recent case of mismanagement from the studio, Kathleen Kennedy (the head bitch) Ordered the mighty morphing Vespa Rangers into "the book of Bob fett" not because she liked the idea, but Specifically because John Favreau hated them.
That's because the show is *storyboard-driven*; each episode starts with no script and the storyboarders develop the story with drawings. Adventure Time, Regular Show, and Steven Universe were made the same way. Take of that what you will.
I remember hearing that the reason starco was forced is because two of the writers were married and basically self inserted themselves as star and Marco. Especially with the blood moon ball where they essentially forced them from the beginning and did a bunch of loopty loops in relationships to make it seem natural when it wasnt at all. Honestly feel like if they were gonna do it so early in then they should have in season 1/2 and then the next ones are them working as a healthy teen couple. But of course that wouldnt be utilized at all bc it's SO much better to string things along and end up with a teen forced to be with a mentally 30 year old dude after committing genocide
"(...) and end up with a teen forced to be with a mentally 30 year old dude after committing genocide" That's a string of words I'd thought I'd never hear.
@@ryanm.8720 expect that in about 10 years. shows tend to be a response to what the writers grew up with. The future showrunners who grew up with poly being a common theme in fanfic have not really hit the industry yet.
You know? The ending of Star Vs reminds me of an episode of Adventure Time where Finn became a supreme wizard and had to prevent a city from being destroyed by a meteor with the help of other wizards. You see, the joke was that they could just destroy the meteor, but they decide to instead move the city so the meteor hits only the ground. They decide on a hypercomplex plan instead of a straightforward solution. It's a subtle but funny plot point. In Star Vs, they took this path, but with a complete lack of self-awareness. They were a million ways they could have gone to stop Mina and his goons, but they decided to go for the worst solution possible: destroying all magic, which causes the death of billions of people across dimensions. Star never cares about any of this: she and her friends never suffer any consequences of this plan, even if they should. Ponyhead should just be immobile in the ground because she shouldn't fly without magic, but she still can. Mewni and Earth get separated, but it doesn't matter: reality changes and millions of people get screwed so she can have a perfect ending. That's because a recurring theme on the show is that Star never has to suffer the consequences of her actions. Either people don't care, she is not affected, or the story doesn't think it's a big deal. She only keeps getting a worse person as the show reaches its ending, cheating on her partners, lying, manipulating people, being abrasive and impulsive, and overall being an insufferable brat who thinks it's the center of the world. But the show doesn't care about any of this because it thinks Star is simply a wacky goof instead of this awful person with sociopathic traits. In retrospect, I think Star is an actual Mary Sue. People complain about characters like Korra (who can be unlikeable but suffers consequences and recognizes her mistakes) or Rey (who is not even unlikeable: she is just bland and poorly developed), but this is how a character who the show thinks is perfect and shouldn't change looks like.
That's a bit of a divisive statement. Star, as a character, is most definitely NOT a Mary Sue. Throughout the series, we see her learn and develop into a responsible and caring person, which would not be the case if she were a Mary Sue. However, in terms of the narrative, Star is definitely a Mary Sue. Whenever Star makes a brash decision, there's barly any pushback from anyone, aside from a few one-off comments to lampshade the stupidity of these decisions. It's almost as if every time Star makes a decision, the writers are afraid of making them bad ones, and she doesn't really face the consequences of her actions--especially near the end. That's part of why I was super disappointed by the end. It could have used two satisfying endings for the show: either Star makes a bad decision and suffers the world-changing consequences once and for all, or she makes a good decision and lives happily ever after. The series ends with Star making a bad decision and facing very little consequences for it. Star as a character is totally fine, but it's almost like the series itself doesn't allow Star to learn from her actions, especially in season 4.
The shipping in the show annoyed me so much by the end I was kinda zoned out and wasn’t super surprised by how disappointing the ending was, in fact I barely remember the ending I only remember feeling bored and empty. It sucks because the show really did start off strong!
Man, it’s crazy to remember that the show ended with Star committing genocide in order to stop another genocide. That’s a whole other level of depressing. 😔
@@outdoorscholar6016 To be fair, Marley deserved EVERYTHING that happens to them. Lol at the comparison of Marley's treatment of its slave races to evil Germans, when those same oppressed people being absolutely hated by every single nation on the planet, were a horrific exterminator of other cultures that dwarfed Marx's Communist legacy killings.
More like she commited super genocide to stop a genocide. Still pretty bullshit the unicorn heads lived (and can still fly wtf), after removing all magic. You could tell it was done that way to not show actual consequences onscreen.
Ya know, there were a lot of theories as to who the final enemy would be. And a lot revolved around one character; Seth. Who is Seth? Well, he never actually appeared in the series. Only in supplemental materials. But Seth was of the same species as Toffee and was more extreme than Toffee. He could have been a really great antagonist like a Toffee 2.0. It would have been a great way to increase the stakes without destroying the characters already existing in the show. I would have loved if they’d gone in that direction. If anything, it could’ve been a good way to bring Ludo and Toffee in for the finale. But hey, we got what we got.
They even could have pulled the "toffee was actually right" twist like they did in the show if they had Seth. They could have a semi-redemption arch for Toffee's ideals by showing what Seth wanted and what Toffees actual plan was. Star could have been unwill allies to stop a bigger threat then parted with Toffee on a "we will never be alies, but at least we aren't trying to kill each other" note.
Oh yeah, I remember Seth. I didn't really care about him at the time because I didn't like his design and didn't really look into all of the theories about him, but yeah he would've been an interesting antagonist. Personally, though, I would've loved for Toffee to have lived, he was such an amazing antagonist.
I was a part of a community for this show as season 2 was airing, going into the third. I got to see the disappointment of everyone as the series progressed. It really felt like they just didn't know what to do after they had finished out the battle for Mewni.
Yeah, I think part of why Season 3 felt a bit more stagnant was because I think they spent too much time in Mewni when I always felt like Star worked at its best when it was Marco and Star on Earth getting involved in wacky adventures.
I never watched all of Star vs. the Forces of Evil and people told me not to cause the finale was THAT bad. Guess I'm about to find out what I missed out on...
Finale did suck bro. Worse than the Steven universe finale bro. The amount of “whoopsie we don’t have time for this” and just forget about all the plot points is insane.
Saber could you please review Persepolis (2007)?
Oh just till you get to Tales of Arcadia it takes 6 years of story, character development, and world building. Then the finale movie threw it all in the trash and lit it on fire.
Wasn't it one of the highest rated Disney Channnel shows of the 2010s?
Saber, in the end, it was still a better ending than Game of Thrones.
I've always found it funny that Daron Nefcy has said that Tom was based on an ex of hers, because not only did he get more character development than anyone else, but he was arguably the most likable character by the end.
@@ezbeanz4208 that’s the beauty of character development! But seriously, it does go to show doesn’t it?
@@ezbeanz4208 uh,, did we watch the same show? I thought it was done pretty well from what I remember, and that he did get some good development. If anyone had negative character development it would be Star herself lmao. But hey, it has been literal years since I watched it last (when the finale aired), and you're more than valid in your own opinion as well.
You're not the only one!
Tom is my favorite character, he actually went through a whole character arch, got therapy realized he was being too clingy, and that he and Star didn't work. He went through so much and was a better man for it.
Damn.
Now that I think about it, it really is super weird that Hekapoo was so easily chill with the idea of magic as a whole being wiped. She is an ancient member of a high-ranking council whose *JOB* is to protect and govern the magic across the universe. Imagine a secret service agent overheard someone's plans to shoot the President and was just like "yeah I see your point, go ahead. The guy had a good life anyway"
Meanwhile, the rest of the MHC is cheering on as magic nazis ready to exterminate numerous other races. I think she realized what she did wrong, and that the rest of the MHC wasn't redeemable. She made a sacrifice to save the monsters from Mina and the MHC.
Because she is ancient is that she would have more reasons to just end it. Specially when she knows all the bad stuff the council has done to "control" magic.
@@kauske I don't know, that sounds forced. She couldn't have sent all the monsters to another dimension? Even if they have the interdimensional scissors, they first need to know where they went. And I imagine that she could have taken them away
@@srmicho9492 She couldn't even handle Ludo with half a wand, and she's going to handle indestructible magic knights and the rest of the MHC? How are you going to get the monsters away from the knights? That still doesn't solve that the monsters home was stolen by Mewmans either.
The magic in SVTFOE is just an allegory for a corrupt and systemically bad governmental system. That's probably why it pisses Americans off so much, lol. They don't like being reminded the land they call their own was stolen from other humans at the barrel of a gun.
SVTFOE was bold to even tackle such a thing, and people despise them for it.
@@kauskeWhile the Magic High Commission had some anti-monster tendencies their primary goal at the end seem primarily based in wanting Eclipsa out and Moon back in as Queen of Mewni, not Mina's whole "let's kill all the Monsters" thing. Besides that idea would be rich considering the fact that supplementary material confirms that Omnitraxus Prime, one of the supposedly "irredeemable" MHC members, attempted to convince Festivia that maybe she should make peace with Monsters only to be stopped by *HEKAPOO.* So the idea that Hekapoo is the only redeemable member of the MHC when she has been shown to be just as prejudiced as the rest, if not more so considering she never had a moment that hinted she might've had an epiphany like Omnitraxus did, is just ludicrous and inconsistent. Omnitraxus and Rhombulous are only like this because the writers removed any humanizing traits they had in previous seasons. Also framing Hekapoo's actions as a heroic sacrifice fall flat on its face considering the fact that destroying Magic won't just kill the MHC, but *ALL MAGICAL BEINGS IN THE MULTIVERSE.* Regardless of how shitty she thinks she and her brothers have been, that doesn't mean she has *ANY* right to condemn all magical beings to death for *their mistakes.* By that type of logic, Ludo would be making a "heroic sacrifice" if he decided that it was time that he and all Monsters should bite the dust by submitting to Mina's army because some of them like Toffee and Seth were really awful people. Funny how you can justify genocide like that when you point out the bad members of a specific group. You know the Nazis did some really messed up stuff, as penance for that all Germans should let themselves be victims of genocide to make up for that. You see how stupid that is?
I wanna give special shoutouts to Jackie, a character who was mostly glossed over in this video. She was absolutely fantastic while she had the spotlight and became one of my favorite characters in the show. She immediately felt like the perfect pairing for Marco and Marco seemed legitimately so happy to be with her. A relationship could have been completely solidified and that would have been one less main character to worry about wasting time on relationship drama with. How poetic it is that the episode Jackie is effectively thrown out of the show correlates almost exactly to the moment the show lost itself.
And also, I know that many people already say that Star vs. walked so Amphibia and Owl House could run, but I say Star vs. walked to the edge of a cliff, tripped, fell over, hit rocks on its way down, broke its bones, and got mauled by a bear so Amphibia and Owl House could run.
I totally agree with you. At first I was like grr I’m team starco but that tune quickly changed when it was clear how perfect Jackie was with Marco. They would have been a sweet and chill couple and I liked that the show seemed to break the stereotype of having the lead boy/girl characters date, but of course they had to ruin everything
I expected Jackie to be a mean girl, or be hiding something sinister and was really happy that wasn’t the case. I really liked how she and Janna played a bigger role in season 2.
I still think star and marco were best ship, mainly because of Blood moon season 1, but yeah I felt that they did Jackie dirty and didn’t know how to keep her and develop her, heck even jana could have used some more screen time in terms od development.
Sounds like a South Park demise
@@mckenzie.latham91 if you want to hear my idea on how to keep Jackie, maybe she could have joined the adventures and could have been trained to fight the forces of evil during season 3 and 4, like Connie from Steven Universe
like, that'd be the most obvious choice
What really annyos me about the whole magic is the cause of evil idea is that one of Star's biggest lessons in season 1 was that she has to learn to not just use her magic however she wants. Now they make it sound as if it wasn't her fault, it was the magic that's causing the trouble and not Star being irresponsible.
One notable thing about SVFOE is that it’s that one show many people would talk about when it was airing, but after it ended, you don’t really see that much discussion about it unless it’s how it was after the Battle for Mewni special.
And specifically, after that, two of the writers for it left the show, one being someone who wrote for ATLA (Giancarlo Volpe).
Game of Thrones got the same treatment. Like it hurts to look back on season 2 and 3 for that series and knowing how bad the finale is. Such wasted potential
Oh I see
@@Saberspark are you able to get rid of the bots?😅 they’re quite annoying
Ignitedquils what's your favorite star vs the forces of evil character?
Same goes to Voltron remake
The show kind of portrays and hints that Tom was an abusive angry boyfriend but it turns out that Star ended up being the worst one of the two. She manipulated him, strung him along, cheated, lied, gaslit and broke his heart TWICE. Even his MOM didn’t like her! How are we supposed to cheer for Star as a protagonist when she was awful to someone who gave her their heart?
What makes it worse is that Daron said that Tom was based off of all of her ex-boyfriends, which really makes you think who was the issue in that relationship.
She sounds like the perfect protagonist for most shows nowadays. Rey in the Star Wars sequels, Captain Marvel, Abbey from The Ma'am of Us Part Deuce.
@@zuttoaragi8349 the show is very reminiscent of MLB. It’s these types of Mary Sue jerk main protagonists and they’re obviously going to happen boyfriend who starts off kind and turns into as much of jerk as she is. A lot of them are also self inserts with characters like Tom or Chloe whom you’re meant to hate but can’t cuz you don’t have the creator’s bias
@@BelBelle468 MLB?
Not to mention, Tom was willing to change, grow, and even go through an incredibly painful ritual to help his anger issues. Tom was working on himself the whole time! Star didn't seem to grow as a girlfriend, and she kept going back and forth with Tom and Marco to the point I was beyond frustrated. Seeing someone is actively working on themselves to grow is a good sign of a decent person, and I REALLY wanted Tom to win in the end. He worked so hard.
Marco had 2 friends in the first few episodes that just disappeared and were never heard from again. That was an early sign of a shaky foundation.
Star was so good being marco wingman with Jackie and they ruin it because she caught feelings
@@christian6455 star is based on the creator and Marco on the creators husband so that why they ended up together she just teased people to much about the relationship.
@@michaeltaylor788 that's a poor reason, don't know why people like you need to bring that up.
@@smart.but.stupid it’s the reason there together and the real reason people are mad about was it was done badly (and Star did a genocide at the end before we finally got it 😢).
To be fair, that alone shouldn't be too bad. Lots of shows eventually write out characters if they feel like they can't do anything with them. But ya, this show had a lot of issues.
Star destroyed the magic because she couldnt see them defeat mina and her new army, saying they were unstopable. But Mina is the LAST one of the old armie, meaning that something DID wipe almost all of them out. So destroying the magic was just the easy quick solution, instead of looking in to what took out the army of the past.
Well, an easy quick solution is a very Star move...
@@_V.Va_i mean, seeing as it was the only way to save Mewni, its fair. they used all the strength to fight one soldier, imagine how much strength they wouldve lost fighting ALL.
And another thing that could have a solution was Eclipsa using that OP spell that killed everything that it touches, yeah, at first she didn't use it anymore bc se was tired but when she was in a good state again SHE NEVER USES IT. I think that was super dumb, like "we have this super OP spell that can destroy the army BUTTT, oh no, the poor tree and mountain now have a hole with a butterfly-shape on them, we can't use that spell anymore it's too dangerous.... Well, now we gonna make a massive magic genocide!!!"
@@Average_.AceAttorneyFanEclipsa even suggested going back and fighting themselves, she was onto something, but Moon and Star are like braindead ig, even Marco was questioning their decision, and he's biased-
I find it batshit insane that they couldn’t find another way to beat Mina.
I remember feeling SO BAD for Tom.
He promised to change and actually went through the effort to change, gave Marco a chance, who ended up as his best - probably only male - friend.
He did everything for Star, was there for support, was emotionally avaivable even though he didn't sometimes understand what was going on, and he was there to help in battle, if anyone asked him to be there- he'd be there.
He didn't even get angry when he found out that Star cheated on him, even though he had every right to be! He just got more sad and confused.
Instead it was Star who got angry at Tom for questioning it.
i'd say the first two seasons + battle for mewni should be remembered
It's funny to think that Daron Nefcy created Tom based off of her ex-boyfriend.
Ugh, no. Star wasn't a good girlfriend, but folks give Tom too much credit for how he was as a boyfriend.
He initially seemed cool with having a birthday party for Star, but when she didn't like it, Tom ducked out and tried to place the blame on Marco. He helped Star set up for the monster party, but didn't understand why it was important to her. He helped her look for Buff Frog, but dragged his feet while doing so. He helped Marco fight Meteora, but didn't help Star, Marco and River look for Moon. He worked with Marco to cheer up Star with a Beach Day, but doesn't do much to help Star with Eclipsa. If Marco, Janna, and even Pony Head can find the time to help Star, Tom has no excuse.
It's easy to blame Star for what happened, but Tom wasn't always there for her. He's just the more passive of the two.
my boy Tom along with Janna and Kelly deserved their own, much better, show
@@ThisIsAshley41 u clearly have never been in a real relationship if u think that about him lol
I don't know why they didn't just destroy the wand?
Since the series was so focused on prejudice and how the royal family abused their power to the point of getting the Magical High Commission to aid them in keeping control/power, wouldn't it make more sense to destroy the symbol of the royal family's power and reform the Magical High Commission than destroying all magic? And even better, they could've abolished the monarchy along with destroying the wand.They had the whole plotline about Eclipsa being bad at being queen, wouldn't the logical conclusion to that be "maybe we shouldn't be upholding a system where unqualified people are put in charge." I don't think Eclipsa's a bad person at all, i love her character, but she clearly cares more about her family than her position (again, not a bad thing, but not a great attribute for a ruler).
Destroying the wand also makes sense after all the stuff with Ludo and Toffee. It would also loop around with the fact that all this mess started with Glossarick creating the wand for the first Mewmans.
Maybe they didn't want to reuse a finale they had already done for season 1
That could be a good ending.
@@locusruizlopez5997 Which is why they didn't do it. Why do the sensible thing when you can condemn all magical creatures to death and sow chaos in every dimension, resulting in untold calamity? You know, like a hero would! :V
The wand can't be destroyed. When Star's first wand got destroyed with that spell, it just came back to star as a meteorite and got fully recovered. The wand also came back when it was destroyed for the second time. The series implies that the wand can be destroyed, but cannot be vanished from reality like some sort of garbage u throw away haha
The threat was Mina and her army using the magic at all. Destroying the wand would be symbolic, but it wouldn’t really do anything besides that. Mina would just bat her eyes, say to herself that Star destroying the wand proves she’s a “monster smoocher”, and continue committing genocide.
Things always go wrong when the writers get caught up in the shipping. Shipping should be used to enhance the plot and the characters and make it more fun, not ruin the structure of your series. That's why I feel like writers/creators should keep their distance from fandoms, otherwise they're easily influenced.
Agreed😅 I feel like the writers were influenced by fans WAAAAY too much 😶 especially when it stopped the plot
after I read your comment, I immediately thought of the way Owl House handles its ships. you've got you're two core Canon ships: lumity and raeda, and they both get a great amount of screen time that enhances the story, not obstructs it. when I think of Owl house the show, the shipping is so far down on the list of things I focus on because the show runners are more focused on the story than the shipping fan service, like Star vs. did. when I think of Star vs. now, one of the very first things that come to mind is the messy handling of relationships, and how alot of the good story beats were thrown away in favor of shipping. I loved Star vs. when it first came out, and fell off because of the messy shipping and lost plot and character development. It still holds a place in my heart,, but it's bitter sweet because of the glaring problems in the later 2 seasons. anyways, thank you for listening to my Ted talk, watch Owl house if you haven't already :)
Basically the state of My Hero Academia, you got the fanbase who is all hardcore on the shipping while the frickin' creator himself did not want that (he does but only as a secondary element that will not matter until the very end of the story which as of now still isn't), yet the fanbase always pressuring and sometimes even abusing him to give what they want
@@karleyrae7705 I haven't seen Owl House but my partner watches it and they've said the same thing. I think why the shipping in Owl House works is because the creators are clear in what they want and are the ones in control, not the fanbase.
I'll need this for upcoming plan.
Star was genuinely a sweet character in the first few seasons, she had a lot of flaws which made her character a lot more dimensional but i feel like her personality didn’t really make sense in the latter seasons
Sounds like the “girl from another dimension” became less dimensional throughout the seasons
Honestly Star herself was the problem, literally when Marco and Tom were playing table tennis, Tom mentioned how whenever Star plays games she always changes the rules anytime she starts losing so she can't be beaten. Despite that negative trait they took it as a fun and awesome personality quirk, but that was literally her every move.
She was the first to destroy the wand in their family, honestly at that point it should have been taken away from her until she learned how to better handle and understand the real responsibility that came along with it. Star made so many choices that forced the people around her to deal with. Including when she told Marco that she liked him and that she was going away for good, that was a really manipulative power move because he has no time to respond and it'll leave him thinking about her and that unresolved mess she left behind.
She got a lot of those traits from Moon, i.e. Moon not killing Toffee to avoid paying the fair price for Eclipsa's help. And then putting all the blame on her for it.
Star vs. will always hold a special place for me, but as far as that last episode and really most of that last season, that is just like some kind of fever dream rather then a cohesive story line that builds from it's overarching theme.
OMG! What you said is so true 😧 I didn't notice that about Star before
The thing about telling marco is because of what they do in s4, star already knew from the beach day photo, that she and marco would be fine in the future.
She knew she'd see him again, and they'd be on good terms, so why not tell him the truth about her crush later? When they're safe? Because she knows they're gonna be right? As she says in s4?
By retconning the photo to be from the future, star looks SO much worse in Starcrushed for embarrassing marco and running off in tears despite NOT having to do that.
It was a bad retcon and made her look more manipulative then the writers probably intended at the time.
Tom and Marco playing table tennis. What's a better way to have two bros talk? About like a 50-1 game.
I kinda just feel like they shouldn't have made jackie like marco if that wasn't the ship they were going for. They could've made it so marco only thought of her as inspiration and realize that so he would go out with star. I just want whatever ship they
start to not just get axed by them.
Edit: I was gonna say shouldn't not should.
Honestly star was mentally unstable for seasons 3-4 she had a lot going on in her mind including dating Marco
It's funny how Star herself became the final enemy because, a plan of destroying the magic sounds like something a villain would do, it's like if somebody got tired of the high taxes on electricity and decided to remove the whole world of anything electronic, that's what a villain would do
It literally is the thing the villains do in a bunch of other series.
Even if it was to stop another villain Star became Toffee. She pulled a "Escape from L.A" with that move she did
Agreed
I disagree on the original comment. It is absolutely not what a villian would do, this kind of move to destory a very powerful and thus dangerous device is throughout many mythologies. You can even find it in Inu Yasha, where the jewel is destroyed in the end by Kagome.
In my opinion, the destruction of magic wasn't a bad plot choice, quite the opposite. You finally see that Star is maturing (a little), by willingly getting rid of her power deus-ex-machina-solve-all-my-problems device.
@@antonk.653Star literally killed at the very least 4 people, that’s not maturing that’s murder. It is very unlikely that it was just 4 though as the spells probably also got destroyed and it’s VERY likely that there were other magical beings out there killed.
The old saying "a hero is only as good as their villain" hold true with Star. I firmly believe that had they kept Toffee around as this pervasive force of chaos would have been a huge boon to the show. His loss was felt immediately.
I'd disagree. Toffee had a great run, and I think he ended at a good moment (evil if the way they killed him off was a bit iffy). There are a lot more ways a series can generate conflict than just personifying it into a villain. If they kept with a racial tensions angle, even if there weren't a big head of all evil, it would have still been a great conflict.
The biggest issues were definitely the lean on the excessive shipping and the swerve that was the finale. Also refusing to follow on the sideplots they spent literal seasons building. Like, why?
@@SuperPaperPokemon I agree. I don’t think that Toffee needed to be the final Big Bad but the characters they chose to take his place as main villain had huge issues. Like I don’t think Meteora was horrible, but it also felt like she was just a completely different character from Miss Heinous so it felt jarring when she switched from being someone who was mostly an arch-enemy to Marco to being heavily tied into the lore of the Butterfly family. Like, if they hinted at that more during season two and had her change a bit more gradually I think it could’ve worked, but you ended up with effectively two different characters. And Mina, the Magic High Commission, and a traitorous moon being the final villains of season four was awful. It felt really out of character for Moon, especially considering what happened in season three and early season four. If they tried to foreshadow it better I could possibly get behind Moon’s coup, but Mina was a terrible choice for a final threat. I think they could’ve had her and her monster hatred be a part of the final season, but with her being a minion to a different villain.
It wasnt even bad that elipsa was not evil, but the forc of chaos amd star her baysitter. Like her enging as whatever democratic ruler, and that clipsa was trribl a queen, but a good person.
An mina would still b a good finale villain, just have it , make less sudden,
the finle did not rule the show, but what a weird way to end it.
Ad not because it bad per se, its just a weird end if you dont have a spinof in that world, becaue the finale ends on a weird fuion world that makes only sense, if you hhave a spinoff, way too much new quetion an riorities in th late seasons too.
An its not a bad finale, its ut weird to create the entire new conflict and world at the end to, end a show?! Thats just weird.
what's even funnier is that despite literally every other villain getting redeemed, its toffee thats considered irredeemable when he's honestly the most reasonable and justified out of all villains. Lets look shall we?
ludo - his motives are concerned with nothing but selfish power, and his 'redemption arc' consists of him simply talking to his brother again and living peacefully. its even hinted that he still wants to harm star/marco all the way into s4 but he gets let off the hook with barely a slap on the wrist.
meteora - tortured and brainwashed hundreds of schoolgirls for centuries and went on a murderous rampage. she wants the throne for her own gain and nothing more. what happens? they somehow magically turn her into a baby (with a spell that was allegedly supposed to kill her) and this means she's redeemed - no remorse for her actions even once, but she's a baby now, and we can't hurt a baby (also a horrible message to imply that if you had a bad childhood you can simply regress back into a toddler and relive it instead of working on yourself).
mina - self explanatory. racist genocidal maniac who is somehow allowed to walk free despite just trying to kill thousands to millions a few seconds ago. no remorse for her actions.
solaria - literally the most problematic character in the entire series, actually committed severe genocide, cleansing, colonizing etc, and is responsible for most of mewni's prejudiced history. no sign of remorse, but oh she smiles tearfully while looking at meteora, so all is forgiven now apparently.
toffee - his (successful) kill count is literally one person (comet) which happens OFFSCREEN. and it was politically motivated. in s1 we see that he's acc willing to talk to star, its STAR who resorts to violence immediately. later even he never kills people on pure impulse, he could have killed moon easily but didn't. and when he shut down magic compared to star all it did was weaken the butterfly's magic, not destroy magical creatures like star did. we dont know much abt his motives but they're likely tied to the centuries of prejudice he'd witnessed - ofc he'd want to limit the power of an oppressive colonial kingdom. and how is he seen? oh he's absolutely irredeemable and is burned to death without anyone ever trying to talk to him or understand him.
IMO toffee didn't need to be redeemed, he's more fun as a villain but when you stack him up against other villains its really uncomfy how the one (competent) monster villain is seen as a dangerous threat that needs to be eradicated while every other villain gets buckets of sympathy and zero punishment whatsoever.
@@Doug_Edwards99 For season 4, I think they should have written Seth of Septarsis into the show as the final villain. I also wish that they had further explored Toffee’s backstory and motivations before killing him off.
Star at the beggining: I am a magical princess from another dimension!
Star at the end: doesn't have magical powers, is no royalty and since she fused her home dimension with Earth she's not even from another dimension anymore. Now she is just... A girl. The girl who destroyed magic and everyone who's lifes depended on it.
Ik the ending was so fuckin horrible that I cried
The shows of the time were enjoyable but the understanding of morality left a lot to be desired.
And with Disney at least it’s only gotten worse
@@LiveLaughLoveLightYagamiyou know its bad that someone cries over an ending not because it was emotional or the show ended, BUT BECAUSE THE ENDING WAS FLIPPIN AWFUL.
They are better off with out magic
I mean... isn't that the point? She is just a regular girl, or at least, she should be. it's shown many times in Star vs that the uneven distribution of power just makes problems. When regular people are given the ability to dictate the course of other people's lives at a whim, awful things happen. Sure, at the start, we're conditioned to think that Star is awesome because she's a magical princess, but as we learn the reality of magic and nobility and the inherent cruelty of both things, it should be great that she is neither at the end.
Disney seems to have really bad luck with show endings. Either they end too short or don't stick the landing. It still really hurts that Owl House doesn't even get to have a full last season.
At least Ducktales was great all the way through
One of the only exceptions is Gravity Falls. It stayed exactly as long as Alex needed to tell the story he wanted to tell.
I’d say Kim Possible had a pretty satisfying ending. There’s probably a few other examples, but that one comes to mind.
At least we made Disney regret their decision to cut off the owl House. Twice and I plan to make it a third after the finale in more than a month away
Based on Saber and these comments, its pretty clear Amphibia is still being completely overshadowed by The Owl House despite having a near perfect transition from episodic to plot-driven storytelling and having a near-perfect finale.
My problem with the Star vs. finale is that it seemed way more interested in reaching its bittersweet conclusion than it did in wondering if it made sense. I spent the finale wondering if they were going to try bringing Solaria back, because Mina idolized her and probably could have been talked down. But then all we got was a ghost of Solaria staring _disapprovingly_ at Mina when the fight was over. I wondered if that dangerous spell was going to come back into play, but no, it just bumped into a cliff and flew off. I was wondering if Ludo's side stories throughout the seasons had been building up to a big role in the finale, but no. And then the bizarre "kill all magic and magical creatures" conclusion that Star comes up with in the finale to take out some generic magic-powered mecha army, with no buildup story of magic on its own ever being a problem before the finale. It was insane considering the story up to that point had been about Star solving racial tension between humans and monsters, only for her to kill all creatures made of magic, innocent or not lmao.
This is something showrunners have to be careful of if they have an ending already in mind when they start the show. Over time, the show might go in ways they didn't expect, and they have to reassess if the ending still works, or if it needs changing.
Yeah, Star deciding to essentially just genocide all magical beings, really threw me for a loop 😱😰 like was that seriously the best solution she could come up with 😰
Imagine if Gravity Falls built Bill Cipher up as the main villain, but then, after his appearance in the second-to-last episode of the first season, he disappeared and did absolutely nothing for the rest of the show. And now, the real main villain turned out to be Toby Determined, the newspaper editor.
That's the best way I can describe Mina in this show.
The get rid of magic part makes sense if you look at it metaphorically. Magic is essentially institutional power that lets those who have it (mewini Royalty and the magic council) subjugate those who don’t
(the monsters). So it makes sense to want to get rid of it in that context.
It also makes sense since in the larger media landscape. We have a lot of minority villains that are rebuked as “your right but using the wrong methods “ only for the hero to then allow more status quo. It would have been refreshing for the hero to go “your right and your methods other than murder are right”.
But the show never established the difference between stars magic, creatures like poneyhead and the magic counsel. To us the viewers ponyhead is magic like heckapoo is magic or the spider-with-a-top-hat is magic. so instead of saying “get rid of abusive systems of power “ it basically said “you’re right (toffee) and murder is an acceptable method of change and civilizan casualties are acceptable too”
Like what the heck?
Edited for clarity
@@animasuperfreakgirl Yeah, I remember seeing an AMA that asked if Tom lost his portal powers after the finale, but they said that he still has those because "he's still a demon". So those scissors tearing a hole in reality? Magic. Tom creating a burning hellgate to the Underworld? Not magic. That decapitated horse head flying around? Not magic. The rainbows she keeps farting out? Possibly magic.
The thing is that magic to most people can be summed up as "things that aren't normally possible", but in the context of the show magic is "this source of power that is being hoarded by a group of mewmans in an allegory for systemic racial inequality". And like you said, they never bothered to actually explain where the line goes between what is and isn't "magic", because it is never brought up in the actual show.
Personally I think it would have made more sense for Star to give EVERYONE magic, rather than destroying it. You know, redistributing the power among everyone. Especially since the entire show before the finale had been "magic is awesome and cool", before it switched on a dime to "magic is awful and bad".
The idea of wrapping up your story in such an open ended way to inspire fan content is insane to me. Even series that have closed off endings still have content made; people can take an inch and run a mile with it. People love to solve mysteries in media yes (Ex. Gravity Falls) but tying them up doesn't mean fans won't create anything. Some people actually like seeing their theories confirmed. Other people can enjoy being wrong and go back over what they may have missed. That's the point and the fun of having mysteries.
yeah.. and fanfic writers really do not need 'open ended' for getting ideas. They are a creative bunch, which is why so many authors and show writers started off in that community.
And you can't force fan content. If people like something, they'll make stuff
@@neeneko I remember there was this one short story we had to read for a literary arts class (forgot if that's actually what it was called...probs not) in junior high, and it's called "The Lady, or the Tiger?" by Frank R. Stockton, and its ending is left intentionally open-ended. Basically, to summarize, dude gets thrown in to a coliseum as punishment for his barbarous rule, and has to choose between two doors: one has a lady behind it, one a tiger. So the project was obviously to write what we, the reader, thought the choice made was.
There's also many fan fictions of close-ended shows that re-envision the ending so that the writer could take it in another direction. The writer often enjoys the canon ending, but wants to play with an alternate story of their own creation. So it's not like fanfic writers force themselves to confirm to the parameters of the canon story.
This is why I've never been much for films, books, or TV shows that go so far out of their way to have these very vague "question mark" endings, where just about everything is left up to the audience to decide for themselves. It's fine to leave the audience with a *few* lingering questions, but these endings, more often than not, just feel highly unsatisfying. At best they're frustrating, and at worst they feel like a complete cop-out, like the writer/director simply couldn't commit to a conclusion.
I remember how much I was happy as a teen, when I finally found a show where two main characters were boy and girl NOT being romantically attracted to each other.... And then Starco happened.
I don’t mind that, although it can be a bit annoying and repetitive.
However, hearing about Star’s character assassination, I wonder why people ship her and Marco, and why the writers suddenly made it about romance.
It's your fault for not seeing how OBVIOUS Starco is from episode 01 lol
@@SukiNoKoe but throughout the series they're seen as bestfriends, with macro even having a crush on another girl. its fair to say that Op and many others felt blindsighted when it came to romantic starco.
@@SukiNoKoeSure, if you ignore the total lack of foreshadowing, the total lack of chemistry, & the buildup of a separate relationship that conflicts with Starco.
@@D_YellowMadness You are deadass WRONG about the first two things and I don't care about the other ships. xD
Star prevented a genocide by committing an even bigger genocide. That is the finale in a nutshell. Oh, and a writer said the puppies survived, despite the fact they're magical creatures as well. It really felt like the show couldn't commit to their dire choice.
Magic puppies? Get to live somehow despite being a fuggin spell. The entire high commission? Death played off as nothing and used as a gag during the finale.
The puppies survived off of spite
That seems to be a running theme with a lot of shows lately. Too scared to alienate any market share, so there's big bumper rails on plots and the series. The most glaring example I can think of in recent memory is Amphibia's Christmas episode where Anne is repeatedly asked 'What is Christmas about?' And she dodges it because the writers wouldn't just make a ten second dip in the water. She could of just said 'Well it's about this Jesus guy but it's also an important time of year for all kinds of people for different reasons - but we all agree it's a time to get together.' And if Sprig pressed it then the writers could dodge and just say: 'listen bud you'll be back in Amphiba before I could explain all of it.' Instead they leave every demographic out in the cold in trying not to offend any of them.
@@zynski3451 Christmas is about giving gifts and spending time with family. Im pretty sure thats what she said, which is true.
@@Gamer_G33k idk maybe it just really stuck out to me because I head-canon'd Anne as Pinoy the entire show.
The finale retroactively makes you think about so many of the questionable decisions after Season 2.
- Toffee being killed off unceremoniously despite it requiring Moon to use an "evil" spell from Eclipsa just to wound him
- Meteora being turned into a baby which is part lobotomy and part 'dodging the consequences of a villian almost destroying the kingdom' (if anything I'm surprised more people weren't upset that she was still alive)
- The Magical High Commission being discovered to been lying to the family for years yet never receiving any consequences (seriously, why was Eclipsa not more mad at them)
- Marco and Jackie breaking up after being together for like a month despite him trying to date her since preschool (or was it kindergarden? it was early)
Season 4 was bad but the ending to Toffee was where it really started to go downhill and I feel it never truly recovered.
Don't forget how Marco's cheeks glow just like Star's when he uses magic. They never explained how or why it even happened.
Don't forget setting Marco up with Kelly, and them being a genuinely cute couple with good chemistry... and then breaking them up offscreen mere episodes later.
@@michaelstrong5383 He just blushes weirdly
There’s also zero call backs to monster arm, like wtf I was really invested into that. Then they wrote out Marco’s two “best friends” because fans complained they were annoying. Seriously they couldn’t have improved their characters and made them more involved. Also I’m still not over the whole Marco being still mentally 30yrs old, has basically lived a second life but returns to earth all unchanged like it’s the status quo
@@orionbelt4013 Or when marco got stabbed by a unicord and he covers it up like it'll be important- I felt the same you felt but for that really.
One of the worst things that made me mad was that “queen” Butterfly stole Eclipsa’s throne just because she was part monster, and then we never got an actually good ending for the monsters or eclipsa. They’re not even monsters, more like misunderstood. Some are even helpful!
They're Probably All Living On Combined Mewni/Earth. That's What I'm Thinking Happened To Them.
22:44 little fact about Toffee Saber. He didn’t hate magic at all. However it was Glossarik (alongside Baby Meteora) who made him hate magic. He made Toffee harm him, so Baby Meteora would get mad and attack Toffee, who would not only bear a grudge against the Butterfly’s, but Magic itself. So technically speaking Glossarick inadvertently was responsible for the Monster Wars, and the death of Moons Mother.
Yeah and then at the end his whole intention was apparently to get rid of magic. You know what, I'm not going to think. This show doesn't deserve my brain power.
Actually, Toffee looked like he did hate magic when he was a teen and when he got zapped by Meteora when he threatened Glossaryck, the baby just made his hatred for it worse. At least that's how I interpret that scene considering his lines were like "I told you magic was evil" when he recovered and left.
This is wrong from all aspects, dude. Toffee literally said "You see? This is the threat of magic! This is what we are at war against" after he got zapped by Meteora. So this theory is extremely FALSE. And you are dumb.
There was so much continuity ruined in the finale. For example, why does Marco have the cheek marks? All of the mystery involving Eclipsa's "is she good" "no wait, she's hiding something, is she evil?" plotlines which could have actually moved Mewni forward in a more mature way. Why did they force Starco? If the end goal is to destroy magic, was Toffee right all along? What about Glossaric teaching baby Meteora? Also, Ludo's who redemption arc was just... forgotten?
It's the Lost/Moffat school of writing, put cool plot hooks in and hope to invent a good resolution for them later. To the audience this looks like hints you would use to show off a polished story set in a developed world, so you get extra hype with minimal effort. Then you have no luck reconciling this many randomly added ideas, the plot crashes and takes the worldbuilding down with it. The speculation is fun in the moment, but finding out the setup had no intended payoff really sucks.
Honestly this. This is the reason the ending was so bad. Not just the ending but season 4 as a whole and a good portion of season 3. They built things up to go nowhere with them and then took time away from resolving those loose ends and instead built up more things that would go nowhere. The Tom/Star and Kelly/Marco were so much more interesting than starco, but iirc they spent 3 episodes forcing starco to happen instead of just rolling with what they just built up a few episodes before.
And the monster prejudice never being dealt with properly. There was a really interesting storyline where the populous starts to become more accepting but it's rushed and relegated to a b storyline.
I don't even hate the giving up magic angle, but they didn't build that up at all. It just came out of nowhere and left the main character having committed genocide and destroyed entire worlds that ran on magic.
Meanwhile earth now needs to redraw borders, it has thousands if not millions of displaced people they need to rehome. And these are problems the show brings up when the monsters come back to mewni and take back their lands and houses. So it's not overthinking to wonder what happened to all that.
The actual finale itself was probably just a sub par and disappointing episode, but as as a finale it makes the rest of the show worse because it backtracks the story, the monsters will have to deal with earth prejudice while still fighting mewni prejudice; Star and Marco are still terrible at relationships, but they're end game so who cares; Eclipsa wasn't evil so the foreshadowing with baby, the monster arm, Marco's wand, toffee's suit, etc was all meaningless; and a bunch of side characters that you really start to love all die and no one cares so why should you?
@@mlatu315 You're kidding, right?
Kelly and Marco had NO build-up; she was a substitute for Star
and he broke up with her because he realized this.
Same thing with Tom being a substitute for Marco.
I had forgotten about Toffee wanting to destroy the magic. lol
The cheek marks was easily explained. If you used the wand, you'd get them. 🙄
1. The best thing about the last season of svtfoe was eclipsa. I LOVED eclipsa and I think her whole story was brilliant! She was an amazing character with a great backstory, that she was shunned and painted in a horrible light just bc she fell in love with a monster, and that her daughter was replaced off the throne for being half monster, and that NONE of the butterfly family after that were the true heirs. It was great! It's such a shame that the rest of the series and especially star herself became so bad :( she became such a hateable character as the series went on,,
2. The thing about Marco getting old in a second dimension was weird. He was like 20+ in that dimension? And then he comes back to earth and he's technically not a child mentally but is a child? It's weird.
3. They killed toffee for wanting to destroy magic, and ended the show destroying magic. Meaning Toffee was right all along and he was killed for no reason.
4. Star is not only a cheater by the end of the series, but she literally commit genocide-
5. It was selfish for star to combine the world's bc like, imagine how hard it would be for normal people to deal with the mewni creatures and people in their world. It'd be such a confusing experience
Eclipsa was annoying and overrated
@@purpleclaws202 Star was so much worse tho let's be real
@@NaughtsThoughts yeah I can't fight you for that you're right
They even brought up the "Toffee was right." part in the show, but just because it was acknowledged does not make it right, it was still a straight outta nowhere moment that derailed everything.
"The thing about Marco getting old in a second dimension was weird. He was like 20+ in that dimension? And then he comes back to earth and he's technically not a child mentally but is a child? It's weird."
They explain that in passing, basically once he left that place, his memory of events just sort of faded away, like a half remembered dream. That's their excuse for why he was basically a action hero in that dimension but just as skilled as he was in the last episode when he returns.
I always thought that the show’s treatment of Moon was very weird, it’s like they didn’t know what to do with her. She was antagonistic towards Star and monsters and all that, but she had an entire sub arc dedicated to her and Eclipsa bonding together. But then she was revealed to be the one behind it all, until she wasn’t. That really threw me off, because it makes all of that development she had meaningless
One of the issues I had was the destruction of magic was a way too hasty decision and was made only after Moon failed to take back the magic she gave to the warriors. Yes. MOON gave them their power. With the exception of Mina, she should have been allowed to take it back. The reason she couldn't? "We pledged our allegiance to Solaria" the f**k?
Honestly yeah that was completely bull shit they only did that just to try and make mina look scary but it made no sense at all
Yeah this is the equivalent of terrorist taking over a city and the attempt for the police force to take it back and arrest the terrorists failed badly. Then there next course of action after the police force failed was to just nuke the whole city, sure all the terrorists will be dead but so will anyone else in the nukes radius.
Would have been way more interesting to instead use Solaria herself to solve the problem, since they see the queens' ghosts in the tavern
they legit had solaria look down on mina like wtf YOU INSPIRED THAT WOMAN HOT TF YUU GET TO CHANGE SHIP????
@@symbiote3220 what? We're discussing how nonsensical it was to have the fact Moon couldn't take back power she gave because they pledged their loyalty to a dead queen.
The series finale of Star vs aired on the same day as the final episode of Game of Thrones
*May 19, 2019:* _A day that will live in television infamy_
My farts are better than Saberspark’s farts
And a year prior Voltron legendary defender dropped the ball with its finale.
Star’s finale was STILL better, if you ask me!
Michael Strong what's your favorite star vs the forces of evil character?
Wait, really?
my mom ADORED this show when it first started airing. silly cartoons are her guilty pleasure and her favorites are the ones that have unapologetically feminine and quirky girls in the main cast so star was right up her alley. when shipping started to get involved i witnessed her getting involved in shipping culture for the first time and THAT was wild to me as her child who once watched shows just for the ships as a preteen
Awh 😭😭
I love this show so much, very nice story and characters :)
Ok that's adorable
I wish my parents were like that LOL my dad is the stereotypical “every cartoon is a baby show” adult person and will usually lose interest as soon as he sees that something is animated. It’s really sad tbh because he’s missing out on a lot.
Ironically, one of the only animated things he will actually be happy about watching….is THE DESPICABLE ME MOVIES. He genuinely likes them but claims not to like “dumb kids cartoons” even tho those are literally the dumbest ones of all. He will be totally fine with watching Despicable Me but if Amphibia or Owl House is on he will look for the first excuse to turn it off😂😂😂
@@kaylasilverstein4137 I prefer animated stuff over live action, it just feels more immersive somehow
In my fantasies, the show ends on the episode where the Mewmans let Globgor coexist with them, they all celebrate Eclipsa’s coronation, and that scene of Mina’s crow never happened
“Coronation” would’ve been a much better ending point for the series in comparison to the shit fest that we got instead. Even with how shitty Season 4 was, it would’ve stopped in its tracks before falling off the cliff with the rest of the series.
@@gauravagochiya4218 And would’ve ended on a high note
Cornonation was actually an awful episode. It was emotionally manipulative, completely butchered Rhombulus as a character, was rushed, and the ribbon rooster plot point as Eclipsa had a rooster that could free Globgor in the previous episode and it was not mentioned at all in later episodes
The problem I had with the finale was that magic in itself wasn't bad, it was how the Butterflies used it to subjugate Mewni and in the process steamroll everyone who got in their way
yea like cmon, use moon, eclipsa and star the destroying spell just once more, its not that hard
@@youtubewontletme fr! It was not that hard, considering in that book of magical spells, (and the stories of all the previous queens and princesses of muini) show that star and moon have high stats in terms of magic. it wouldn’t have been that hard for moon if star couldn’t have done it. after all Moon has done black magic before. even so I wish it didn’t end with the destruction of magic since there was definitely other ways to handle it.
@@angeltheweirdo yea! Sure there would be a lot of destruction in the way. But make sure everyone is safe beforehand, monsters included. Then do it, the three of them, or just Moon and Star, if Eclipsa is still not recovered. Aim for Mina, (also that crazy girl needs some rest, geez) and some of the others, then you got it. While Moon and Star are recovering from the effort, go get the solarian soldiers that remain, with eclipsa's powers, and put them under arrest. They will try to put up a fight but since their leader and some companions are gone, they will be discouraged. Once all of the Butterflies are fully recovered, use magic to fix all the destruction and return to normality. The end. Happy ending. There is still magic, and they can figure out things together.
Now there is no magic, and two big ass dimensions overlaped, which would surely lead to lots of wars around the world between humans, mewmans, monsters.. That could last decades or centuries. If it took forever for Mewmans and monsters to get enough territory for each(which didnt happen because magic was destroyed before they could try a final negotiation) imagine adding humans and the human world to the equation. Its just worse, and no magic to help make things easier, to help build homes wherever needed, to fix the destruction thar will happen at the beginning (cars crashing unicorns for example). Because yea magic can be bad but it can be really good too, and i feel like they didnt come to think about the consequences of the final act.
@@youtubewontletme Worse. Mina claimed they pledged to Solaria and only she can stop them....well, Solaria's ghost was right there, she could've stopped it all then and there, but they still went ahead to destroy all magic.
Also without magic the US army will take over, meaning everyone associated with monsters and the royal family will likely become prisoners of war.
I think one of the main complaints by fans like me and my friends, was that Daron said she wanted to write a finale that would "inspire Fanworks and fanfiction, that people would and could play with." But what this finale did, was kill every already existing fanwork. Everyone had stories about their future princess of mewni, and this finale just made all those au impossible and ruined. What was so fun about this show was the magic, and learning how to be responsible with it, but the show just randomly decided to kill it.
Daron said "fix-it fics ONLY"
@@SeymourDisapproves PFFT
Yeeeaaah, that's the major issue. She didn't really leave much of anything to play with, at all. Star and Marco are endgame, so you can't ship them with anyone else, and anything you do has to go based off of how the show ended. Hekapoo and others are dead, worlds are combined into one, etc. Who would want to write fanfics or draw fanart about that? She doesn't seem to realize she killed the series off for the fans.
Oh it inspired fanfics alright. Just not the kind she was hoping for.
Daron should have just stuck to writing system of a down songs
Toffee was one of my favorite all time villains in a cartoon series. They criminally underused him and unceremoniously killed him off without ever fully fleshing out his backstory or motivations. Ugh. And to add insult to injury they replaced him with a Sailor Moon parody.
There was a time when People were comparing Toffee to Villains like Bill Cipher, lord Dominator etc. Such a waste.
I feel like the sailor moon parody character was an ok final villain because she tied into the show’s theme of prejudice against monsters, its just that what they did with her was… less great.
The worst part for me is, he is voiced by the actor who had played Dexter Morgan from Dexter!
They killed what was the main antagonist and honestly a a terrifying villain in episode for out of 21. That's all you need to say
Toffee was dangerous and trying to destroy magic that was used to oppress his people. Gets murdered by Star.
Mina was a super speciesist who was trying to commit mass genocide of the entire monster race. She's allowed to skip off by herself with Manfred, not at all punished or imprisoned for her horrifying actions.
It was the moment Star just wiped out Toffee that it went downhill. Of course every other issue still might exist somewhat independent of that but it was at that moment where things started to fall apart. I remember watching the Season 2 finale as it aired and being so intrigued on how it would continue. Yea, really a bummer how it ended.
Such as shame that such a good show can get ruined by shipping and bad writing 😢
My farts are better than Saberspark’s farts
Yup and on top of that I also notice that during the first season and it’s later seasons (Specifically Seasons 3-4) had the animation being largely inconsistent with some moving smoothly like the current animated series (Mercury Filmworks) and other times the episode’s animation moves like Flash Animation (Sugarcube).
I always found Starco dumb
I blame subverting expirations myself.
what ruined it for me was that they destroyed magic when it wasn't the root of the problem, that's like getting ride of planes after 9 11
One of my biggest gripes with Star Vs was that there was already a setup for a climax that was completely different and potentially better than the one we got, but just got tossed to the wayside and forgotten.
Remember that episode where Moon and the Magic High Commission were discussing how magic seemed to be disappearing, causing things to go "on the fritz"? Yeah, there was supposed to be an explanation behind that. According to some external reading material, the magic was being devoured by some void monster in the depths of the universe, and that Toffee was apparently just one of its lackeys. Now imagine if the big series climax was Star going against that instead of the downer ending that we did get.
Yeah, I totally forgot about the magic fritz. Ugh that would've been so much more interesting to explore but they forgot about it too ig
I think we even saw that void monster in the season 2 episode "Crystal Clear". It wasn't even a small hint, Rhombulus literally pointed towards the very visible spiraling void in the sky, then told Star: "Oh yeah, there's also that problem" or something along those lines. We were literally shown the final boss of the series, and then the writers tried to brush it off as if it was never there.
@@100lovenana Ok, I rewatched the episode and you were right! They literally pointed out a giant green vortex, said that its going to be a problem, and never brought it up again! What?!?!
UGH, GOD, that would have been SO MUCH BETTER! ;A;
@@keenahgamboa this is Toffe
What i hated the most was how they handled Moon actually. She was my favorite character and they butchered her imo. One thing that was certain about her was that she prioritized Star's safety the most. And you're telling me she teamed up with Mina who wants to storm the castle where Star was?
Also, they completely threw away her character development with Eclipsa and Bullfrog. She was shown actually getting along with them and understanding them, but no let's throw all that away to make her a twist villain (which they didn't even commit to lmao)
Moon was a complicated character, I'll give it that. But she has trust issues with Eclipsa if you watched late into S3 she was about to defeat Meteora, Eclipsa's daughter but she stopped her from doing that and indirectly going to the Realm of Magic.
Then in S4, she saw how Eclipsa's ruling was putting Mewmans displaced at a disadvantage. Moon knew how to rule Citizens better than Eclipsa can. Her mistake was thinking she had everything under control when teaming up with Mina. Eventually, she was willing to put her differences with Eclipsa aside and help stop Mina and put and end to Magic.
@@dennisscipio I wouldn't really mention anything in S4 as I firmly believe they had already given up on any character development they had put in the story between Eclipsa and Moon, but Moon and Eclipsa in S3 literally BONDED over how much they cared about their daughters and how they meant everything to them. I don't understand why Moon blamed Eclipsa for what happened to her when all she did was try to protect her own daughter, she never could have anticipated how badly that would have backfired nor that Moon would escape to the magic realm and lose her memories for a while. Eclipsa acted purely on instinct to save Meteora and Moon, being a sensible adult who is just as protective of her own daughter, should have understood that it was never Eclipsa's intent to make Moon disappear for months or to even take back the throne.
Marco literally had more chemistry with all other love interest girls than he did with Star.
Hell, he had more chemistry with Tom than he had with Star.
I
That's why a lot of people ship TomCo
What I hated was that they gave Moon some decent character development only to throw it all away with who she ends up helping. She even came to the realization herself monsters and humans are equal footing and she was helping Eclipsa uncover the truth.
Am of the current opinion that she's the unfortunate victim of a highly successful Multiverse destabilization scheme involving sleeper agents and mind manipulation, especially if said schemers did this so to undo the triumphs against Weirdmageddon and even the war against the Diamonds.
I’ll never forget how the shipping war in the fandom almost killed my enjoyment of ships in general 😅 I witnessed it on amino in horror and I used to be a multishipper.
The pain of shipping. It pretty much damaged Voltron LD beyond repair too
Same here.
My farts are better than Saberspark’s farts
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Having watched it during its original run, the thing that really killed it for us was the moment the show decided to end one of Marco's relationships OFF SCREEN. Like okay, we were on the Starco side of the fandom, and willing to sit through these other ships. They were interesting, and the whole curse that bound Marco and Star since season one was cool but left murky waters whether a romantic relationship between them was ever something THEY wanted, and not just the work of the curse.
Then the curse was broken, yay! They can act how THEY want to around each other now. Maybe they'll grow closer as friends, help each other in their respective relationships, that can be cool, new, refreshing! Obviously the show wants to focus on non-Starco ships, and we say go for it!
But then they ended one of said relationships off screen. What?! You can't just pivot the story to be be about shipping and then NOT EVEN GIVE THE SHIPS THEIR PROPER SCREENTIME.
Anyway Eclipsa and her family (monster hubby and baby Meterora) was the best thing to come out of that show.
aaah shipping wars~ takes me back to Naruto where a particular ship got tons upon tons upon TONS of screentime, while the other got ignored and left in the dust, only for that one to become canon and the author saying "the one that got the most screen time was a red herring." never again. >
Eclipsa was such a great character that she stood out, and even felt to me like she was in the wrong show.
@@alvarotavares1966er story line was in the wrong show. The writers were trying to do a fantasy racism narrative about revisionist history, but decided to make it a sub plot to the shipping, while pretending it was the main focus and ultimately cutting their ability to write it compellingly because they were devoting so much time to the will-they-won’t-they romance between Star and Marco. They should have delved fully into Eclipsa and the history of the Butterfly family instead of focusing on romance.
It also left me very confused about Star’s magic. Because she was the second most powerful queen in the history of the Butterflys, but wasn’t really one herself. Which makes me wonder where her magic came from? If she isn’t related to the original line, and instead is a descendant of a peasant girl, wouldn’t it make sense for her to have weak magic considering so much emphasis was put on Eclipsa’s power and reinstating the rightful queen? It was just a plot thread I was curious about.
Don't forget Tom
I honestly didn't think that people would get so upset over Marco and Kelly breaking up off screen.
If this show does get a reboot, I want it to explore the consequences of the events of the finale, how Star might feel regretful and developed a moral crisis, how characters have adapted their lifestyles, etc. It should at least address how the finale has done more harm than good in the long run.
The finale should have been an hour long special. it feels like so much was left undone. one fan had a very funny idea of Ludo having one final relapse of obsessing over the wand, and Star just gives it to him since all the magic is now gone. the wand is worthless now. I can only imagine the disappointment on Ludo's face when he tries to use the wand... and nothing happens. Lol
My farts are better than Saberspark’s farts
Levatato
Not to mention that Ludo didn’t play much of a role in Seasons 3-4 following "The Battle of Mewni," and just became a minor incidental character.
Even in "Ludo, Where Art Thou?" I initially thought he still wanted to seek revenge on Star and Marco but in the Season 4 episodes, "Princess Quasar Caterpillar and the Magic Bell" and in "Cleaved" he doesn’t focus on Star and Marco anymore but just focus on fixing his relationship with his brother and regaining the castle, which is fine but it just "retcons" the ending of "Ludo, Where Art Thou?"
On one end, it’s clear they didn’t know how he fit into the Eclipsa arc but at the same time Ludo isn’t that hard to throw into a story.
With all the pointless shipping that went no where the fact that the ending was rushed is salt on the wound.
I was super bummed when the writers started forcing star and Marco into a relationship. They worked so much betters as friends.
not to mention the fact that Marco is technically a 30 year-old man
@@PizzaMadeMeFat Yeah. How that was overlooked at all is beyond me.
Mr. Mister what's your favorite star vs the forces of evil character?
They know the popularity of starco, so they wanted to make it. Probablay starco is one of the reason why this show became popular even in my country. By the way, I've still see starco pps on social media ( with wearing football team jerseys)
My farts are better than Saberspark’s farts
Something that always bothered me about the ending of the show wasn't just that "destroy the magic" came out of nowhere, but that it also felt like a betrayal of a lot of the show's themes. That for a show that was so centered on understanding the perspectives of others and for how many times on the show the real answers to problems lay beyond violence, Star just decides unilaterally to destroy magic. It seems like such a rash, and short-sighted decision to solve a problem that is only effecting Star's kingdom and only at this moment. You know as this wellspring of magic connects to an endless number of worlds, there have to be places where they rely on magic to treat terminal illnesses, to make crops grow, or where hordes of monsters or horrific natural disasters are kept at bay through it's use. As the worlds seem to have interconnected trade there must be places where essential supplies or relied upon goods are suddenly cut off. As we see so many magical creatures there must be places where entire races of creatures or intrinsic parts of people's cultures will be erased and all because Mewni can't be responsible with it's magic.
If you wanted my idea for a sequel or continuation (not that it seems likely to happen), on some far away world they stowed some of these golden, magical waters away before the destruction as part of some ritual or rite or matter of habit and due to being sealed in some fashion they are not destroyed. Somebody from this world is trying to get the spring flowing again, meeting with various failures to do so and visiting various worlds to try to find answers, only to find disaster after disaster after disaster and a lot of _piiiiiiissed_ people who would very much like to have a word with whoever shut the magic off. Some of these characters would want Star dead but our main explorer here just wants her to start to atone by turning the magic back on. Badabing, there's your basic bones for some stories. Daron, you can hire me, I'm not busy.
Yes! The interdimensional trade issues caused by this stupid decision weren't talked about enough by disgruntled fans. Like, these effects likely culminated in many genocides rather than just the magical creature genocide. Star's body count puts Stalin to shame.
I would watch this concept. :)
And with an infinite number of worlds, there are an infinite number of dimensions where Hitler-like figures used magic to obliterate an oppressed people, just like Mina in Mewney. There are also an infinite number of dimensions where there are magic based terminal illnesses, like the wounds inflicted by Mina's magic sword too. You can't use infinite parallel dimensions as a counter to doin something, because it will sing right back to balanced. There are also an infinite number of dimensions where a magical girl will destroy magic, Star just did it first.
She can hire me as well.
I’m like a professional artist/writer of my creations and doing many Disney projects of art style and writing. I wanna do cartoons because I grow up in the 1980s/1990s. I dream to become a cartoonist to make great things I grew up. Even making a crossover adventure. It’ll be awesome to work in animation.
Actual consequences for Star's decision to destroy all of magic?
I would 100% watch that.
Though the elimination of magic was one of the many things that shows series finale got wrong, there's one aspect of the finale that pissed me off! But yes I also liked the first 2 seasons. Some episodes had really creative concepts (like the puberty episode), I liked the fun continuity episodes, like visits to their own version of Best Buy and the creatures inside the wand, but from the beginning of the show, Star was taught by her mother of a legacy of previous queens in their family linage and for the whole series we only focused on two; the queen who you weren't sure you could trust until many episodes on, we find out she's a victim of circumstance and the Sailor Moon replicate, who was completely insane.
Anyway, what made me mad was when Star and her mom are in the process of destroying the realm of magic, and their descendants' spirits help them, and its here I thought 'OMG I'm supposed to feel something here and I feel absolutely nothing.' The show NEVER goes back to all the other queens or their history. We don't learn about them as characters, what their personalities were, mistakes they made, triumphs they had, just NOTHING! That's what the show should of been about! Not only a lighthearted comedy with magic and evil bad guys, but learning about prejudice through Stars' own family's history, from each queen, and how they could extract lessons from things that worked and things that didn't work. You know, gain insight from the past to improve the future. NOT team up with the Sailor Moon lunatic just because you think its 'the only way'. (Looking at you Moon Butterfly!!) Such a let down.
What sucks is that I honestly just feel nothing for this show anymore. Like I can’t even look back and feel an ounce of how much I used to love it because they dropped the ball so unbelievably hard. This show for me was the definition of getting super invested in something you had every reason to believe was going somewhere, and then to just have it all fall off a cliff, never to be seen again. Watching clips of the show used to make me smile, now it just makes me feel stupid for having once been so invested in it.
I know how you feel 😔
You took an L
I’ve been meaning to watch the show for the first time but this is really disturbing me…
Same, I watched weekly new episodes and then bleeeehh
I understand it. That's me with Helluva boss.
SVTFOE was one of my favorite shows for a while. It always makes me sad that the 4th season was such a miss
@YeaMan gay bot
facts i wish they had 2 more season to flesh out the stuff
Zoha Baig what's your favorite star vs the forces of evil character?
I would say shipping was a negative contribution to the show.
My farts are better than Saberspark’s farts
Man why can't male and female characters just have platonic relationships rather than all this shipping nonsense. I feel shipping usually ruins shows.
It’s insane how so many good fans can turn insane when the finale can change everything
Ask the "How I met your Mother" fans.
Thank goodness I wasn’t one of the people who didn’t snap.
What's your favorite star vs the forces of evil character?
As someone once said "Shippers destroy lives."
My farts are better than Saberspark’s farts
The fact that Saberspark got into the show with so little expectation, then the show proceed to lifting his expectation and then breaking it say a lot about how worse it did turn out
Meh, he was being ridiculously overdramatic
I have been saying this for YEARS, Star leaving Earth would be so much more heartbreaking if she didn't confront Marco. If she just left and Marco realized after the fact
they wouldn't realize and would have no way of realizing because she never really made any sign saying she did. It would be more like realizing he liked her instead. Since star gave 0 indication of actually liking marco in front of him and even pushed him to hook up with jackie. The viewer would be able to tell but unless marco gets into that diary again he's not gunna be able to know unless someone tells him.
@@nyanya2757 I meant if he realized she left later. Obviously he wouldn't have learned she liked him unless she told him. But it would've been more heartbreaking if he like went to go check on her or something and she was just gone
EXACTLY. EXACTLY!!!
I honestly loved Queen Eclipsa and her daughter when I was younger
The worst part of this show was that suddenly Star hated magic and just shut off what made the show cool, including the little creatures in her wand that had a few of their own episodes. I thought that was messed up how she did that for seemingly no good reason.
Right? What was the point of creating episodes that centered on those creatures when you're just going to get rid of them at the end of the show?
Even Thanos thinks she went too far...
Maybe the army of genocidal rampaging magical knights was a good reason to axe off magic... Or the spells in the wand that could 'destroy everything' if they ever got out. I kinda got vibes that magic was an overall bigger problem than it was worth by the end of the series. It was mostly used by the elite to oppress everyone else.
what was the point of allowing her to get more mature if at the end she would make the impulsive emotional teen choices when she was needed the most? It wouldve been easier if the three of them queens used the destructive spell once more
That's true, but I will never forget the lives of those innocent wand creatures with families.
Another issue was that the show was still being written and produced as the show was airing. As in they changed plans for the show as influenced by Fandom and hype. They most likely didn't have a end set in stone yet and wanted to have an ending full of fan service. However instead of pleasing everyone they ended up pleasing no one. They put shipping and fan service over good story telling.
Exactly. Darren should have focused on making a good story rather than trying to please fans. If she already wanted Star and Marco to be end game then that's what she should have been developing instead of the shipping war that happened at the end
That's just most shows nowadays though, they don't have a clear plan or outline
Yep, writing in that way is how to DESTROY your story.
oh np
@@Alondro77 it's just like how Steven Universe didn't have a clear outline in front of it. It was just a mystery all around bc they wanted to subvert expectations so much
it seems like daron wanted to sustain the fandom at the expense of the show. many great shows do not have strong fandoms because there is not much to transform from the canon. they are great as-is and dont inspire a lot of fan creation/transformation.
i believe daron creating an unsatisfying ending that left things open ended was her way of trying to cultivate a stronger fandom culture for after the show ended. this backfired and made many people lose interest completely.
Is Moon racist?
"I want to leave things open-ended!"
**destroys two different worlds so that her favorite 'ship can become canon at the last moment of the show**
Yeah, the reason why shows like Steven Universe, Amphibia, and I'm sure The Owl House will have long sustaining fandoms for years to come is there's plenty to enjoy from the universe and world building of the properties.
So even when concluded and most plot stuff is wrapped up, there will always be stuff they can mess with within the universe and with the characters.
You can't do it with Star as much because
A. The universe of the series went from large and vast to a single dimension thats much less interesting in comparison.
B. The cast also is now smaller because characters from other dimensions are gone forever or dead.
C. Magic is gone, one of the show's main appeals is gone so everything is much less fun to play with.
And D. Theres so much fundamentally wrong with the end and series that even if you do wanna play with the no magic mewearth, most of the cast just isn't likable enough to want to do more with and the world.
Had the ending been better, im sure we'd see comics about the past queens, fanart exploring the characters as adults, takes of star's new adventures to other dimensions....
But without magic and the other dimensions? After star just committed genocide? After finding out toffee and the blood moon had weak explanations?
The focus should of been always put on the show first and foremost, if the show is good and it leaves enough to play with, there will always be a strong fanbase behind it still making stories.
But if you upheave the world and make everything much smaller and less interesting, on top of ruin the majority of the characters, then why bother?
Even shows with considered bad endings like SU and DP still maintain a fanbase because their worlds are rich and there's still a lot to explore in them and they didn't ruin all their characters.
You can't let every mystery be answered by the fans and upend the world of the show and expect that to appeal to the fans long term.
I get it, but had this show ended with star being queen or something, no magic removal, no combined worlds, we'd probably see the fanbase still kicking with work today.
@@jlwiseman98 Should Moon have been friends with Eclipsa?
@@jlwiseman98 YOU ARE VERY RIGHT!!! 👏✨
i dont need a reboot' i need a season 5 covering things that were left open in season 4
One problem that I think Star suffered from was that it’s early seasons had such a great balance of hilarious shenanigans and intense drama and world-building. The fact that most of season one was goofy made the few serious moments and the intense finale all the more shocking and unexpected. Season two did this even better and kept plenty of fun episodes while also throwing you some great dramatic moments. (My favorite episode of the show exemplifies this, “Bon-Bon the Birthday Clown” which is hilarious, has great character relationships and development, and ends on a serious downer of a cliffhanger) But then you get to season three, where the show shifts almost entirely to Mewni, and you end up with a show that’s kind of heavily continuity-driven, while still feeling episodic. And it feels like a weird hybrid of trying to be more serious most of the time while still having humorous moments, but it starts to fall flat in my mind. It feels like it’s moving too slow and the character development isn’t as strong, while also being less fun and funny. It starts to lose steam both as a dramatic continuity based story and as a comedy. Season four also had this problem to an extent. There are still plenty of moments in season 3 and to a lesser extent 4 that I enjoy, but I think the lack of focus on the sillier and more slice-of-life antics made it clear that the writers weren’t the best at drama or storytelling. Without the contrast of the goofier moments the dramatic moments and relationship stuff felt less special. Also the pacing got really bad. Season two moved at a somewhat brisk pace without rushing, which made it feel to me like a better Steven Universe. But once we get to season three, things slow down, and so much of the Starco stuff feels really dragged out. Like, I honestly think they could’ve saved the show by doing all of the Starco stuff in season three, like breaking the curse and getting the two of them together by the finale. That would’ve given season four more time to breathe in other areas.
Certainly there are other issues, like the lack of long-term story-planning, the subtle decrease in animation quality, and how even though Star got less goofy, which the show treats as her growing more mature, Star really doesn’t grow as a character and stays pretty static and selfish. Also Marco went from an amazing straight-man and likable character to a jerk. It’s a shame too because there are moments in the final two seasons I do really enjoy, but as a whole it is a step down and does make the previous seasons not as good.
Also, the cool lizard enemy guy was killed off because the voice actor was thought to be dying from cancer at the time. That turned out to not be the case, and that likely helped make things go horribly awry in the later seasons.
@@crazyluigi6664 I agree. And even if they didn’t want to bring him back in the present day, they did do a time travel episode that only very briefly showed a past Toffee. I think it could have been very possible to flesh out Toffee’s motivations.
Dropping the entire supporting cast and changing the setting to Mewni was a bold move and it did not pay off.
@@kaloo22b Yeah. Honestly Mewni is pretty boring as a setting. Like some of the political backstory is interesting and some of the allegories for discrimination
are ok, but as a whole Mewni is just a generic Medieval era kingdom. The other dimensions are much more interesting and a lot of the charm of the early seasons was seeing these magical Mewni characters in a mundane Earth setting.
@@kaloo22b I completely agree. The way that Jackie broke up with Marco was awful and a great example of how later mistakes of later seasons of a show can retroactively “ruin” even the good parts of a show. I still really enjoy season two and the way they built up Marco and Jackie’s relationship and I enjoyed how they fleshed out Jackie’s character but it isn’t as enjoyable knowing that Marco and Jackie are gonna break up and Jackie will just vanish, until late into season four for one last appearance. Also, the way they forced Marco to abandon Earth in order to permanently move to Mewni and become Star’s squire made no sense. Marco has a pair of dimensional scissors and can travel to Mewni as much as he wants, so he could still go to Mewni and have adventures with Star while still living on Earth and going to school.
Hadn't watched the show before, but I heard bits and pieces of it and how magic was destroyed in the end. When you mentioned that Star's spells were alive with lives and kids, I started thinking "Huh. Maybe magic was destroyed because it forces these sentiment beings to be used as tools, and now without magic they'll be free?"
Was not expecting the actual answer to be that they all just died lol.
This sounds like a much more satisfying answer to the problem the show presents. Destroying the ability for anyone to *control* magic, good or evil, rather than destroy it.
Magical creatures can life peacefully as they are.
Idk I’ve never seen the show, but usually mass genocide isn’t something the hero character does.
@@HumanPerson_final I almost wonder if perhaps there was some drama in the writers room that lead to the writers deliberately sabotaging the ending... (Not sure but it sounds like maybe whoever it was on the team that kept the continuity on point was let go....)
@@minnion2871 they shipped starco, and didn’t have a plan for the ending either. That culminated into what we got.
they didn't pony heads fly using magic, last episode we see them floating above some chilling on a cloud, or above it
@@goldgroudon3996 this is more of a plot hole, cause Hekappo died because of the end of magic and so did thousands or beings and dimensions
Kim Possible did it right. They built up Kim and Ron's relationship over three seasons, ended in a movie where they make is official, and upon getting a Season 4 by popular demand, just kept them going strong, focusing more on Ron's Monkey powers and other loose ends.
Yeah Kim possible did a real good job of tying up loose ends and plot points by the end of season 4
the only our show i think did that as perfectly was jackie chan adventures which wrapped up all plot and loose ends by its end in season 5.
@@mckenzie.latham91 God I loved Jackie Chan adventures 🤤👌
Also Kim and Ron didn't commit mass genocide.
@@YujiUedaFan Facts.
@@YujiUedaFan Oh yeah, true.
*SPOILERS* (Even though this show ended almost 16 years ago 😅)
Aside from Ron killing Warmonga and Warhawk in the finale, there were no other confirmed deaths on the show
Another thing is that destroying magic didn’t seem to reverse anything about the way the monsters were treated.
It does there won't be anymore genocidal threats
"She was forgiven like she was a villain from My Little Pony"
Very accurate ngl
Or like White Diamond in Steven Universe.
My Little Pony still killed villains
@@somerandolad killing millions of species and domestic abuse are okay as long as you say sorry
@@genericname2747 damn, I didn't know that. mlp is kinda based for that ngl
@@LowIntSpecimen Sombra's so evil, they killed him twice.
So, to sum up:
-Two worlds were merged together and altered DRASTICALLY
-Thousands of people, monsters, and more have had their lives uprooted, and the culture shock will likely ironically cause even MORE problems, going against what Star was fighting for originally (trying to bring monsters and mewmans together, and cultivate peaceful relationships)
-And our 'heroine' committed *GENOCIDE* on a grand scale, given how many magical beings, *including her own spells* we see in the show. Not to mention the fact that there are some problems that could *only* be handled by magic...
...but our main couple gets to stay together! HAPPY ENDING! >:/
Yeah, nuts to Starco, and nuts to the writers for shoving the couple in our faces over everything else.
Basically mewmans are doomed. They don't have magic and authorities against monster 's stronger physical attributes and human 's firearms.
This aslo will cause years of war from 3 side and without magic, this lovely couple won't stand a chance.
Star and Marco are based on the creators and her husband in that order so of course they would end up together but how she did it was not good.
I would've forgiven the garbage ending if Pony Head were part of the magic genocide. /hj
@@angah82 ...well, that would have made it a LITTLE better.
@@angah82or made ponyhead crippled on a wheel chair with the intelligence of a horse, killing Her is to merciful
I worked on the animation team that developed the style for the first ten episodes. Due to REASONS (insert NDA here) the show was moved to another studio overseas. It damaged my relationship with animation for the rest of my career. I had been looking forward to working on this show for 3+ years (my entire career at that point) and when it was taken away it completely changed how I viewed the industry and what it truly meant to be an animator in Canada. It doesn't surprise me that it started falling apart after the first few seasons. The team for this show was focused on the wrong things.
I'm sorry to hear that was the case. Thanks for sharing regardless.
So that was the reason why the first season looked so different from the rest of the show. With a thicker line art, a more 'fluid' animation and overall more movement. That's such a shame, I wish it stayed like the first season's
If it’s any consolation, your guys’ work was absolutely peak for the series. Gorgeously done.
One day I will have some of my stories animated - I want it done by an awesome team of animators ✨ keep doing good work!
For what it's worth, I prefer the animation from the earlier episodes much better, and you and the team did a fantastic job!
10:27 when the video ACTUALLY starts
Thank you
I always felt that Season 2 was the strongest because it was very character driven and Star was constantly going through bad emotions as the season went on with her feelings for Marco and the most underrated plotline with her losing the book and having to grow up plus paired with her inspection you saw how she was growing and the season ended perfectly
Season two was the best indeed, but I think that ended up hurting the later seasons even more because they couldn’t keep up the momentum. I love the season two finale, but honestly while Battle For Mewni” was solid it didn’t completely live up to the hype I had after the end of season two. Like after a whole season of slowly teasing the return of Toffee, he finally comes back through Ludo and demolishes the Magic High Commission. I thought he would posses Ludo permanently from then on and try to overthrow Mewni. Ultimately the show when it finally returned for season three Toffee ended up still in the background as the focus shifted back to Ludo invading Mewni, which still lead to some decent comedy, but it ultimately was underwhelming. It would be like if Avatar the Last Airbender followed up their season two finale with the characters coming back to Ba Sing Se and overthrowing Azula in like five episodes with a more comedic tone as season three started. Wouldn’t that be disappointing?
But yeah, as much as I love season two it does suffer from later seasons failing to follow through on some of it’s best parts. The way they built up Jackie and Marco’s relationship was super good, so it’s a pity they broke them up at the first chance they had early in season three. Like, I’m not opposed to them breaking up but after you’ve built them up for two seasons I think you should have at least two other episodes building up why Jackie would want to break up with Marco, or vice versa.
I honestly prefered Ludo over Tofee, specially after his character development, soo I was happy that he survived..... IF ONLY THEY WOULD HAVE USED HIM
@@Doug_Edwards99
I was worried about the ending by the end of Season 3. The show really started to meander and it felt so clear that the team wasn't sure where they wanted to go.
My farts are better than Saberspark’s farts
I can actually agree on this. I'd have to rewatch Star VS to completely remember my reasons why, but for a show that I loved so much just like TOH and Amphibia, it hurts seeing how the shows all get cancelled and cut short, even if this is what the creators apparently intended.
I do really hope we get to see more from the world, since that was something I always wanted to know of, more about the past queens of mewnii (I know there's apparently books about them all but I haven't gotten them myself and don't know if I will)
Fun Fact of the day: Star’s actress, Eden Sher, played Sue Heck in The Middle, and Marco’s voice actor, Adam McArthur, went on after this show to get the lead role as Yuji Itadori in Jujutsu Kaisen (I’m happy for him 👏👏)
Definitely happy for Marco’s VA, I’m glad that he’s in one badass anime alongside my favorite voice actors and actresses. ❤️
Really loved Eden's performance on The Middle, and I'm glad to see Adam get more work, even when it's one of the most popular anime in recent years.
Dub
Yo that first part makes SENSE though
That's why Yuji sounds like Marco!
Don’t even forget the beach day photo. I was so disappointed.
For me, SVSFOE ended at Battle for Mewni. Also, I noticed how the animation went from smooth, bouncy, colorful, pretty to bland, stiff, and desaturated. I mean S1 had great shading and smoothness.
Finally, thank you
I completely agree, it bothers me the animation style change
I understand you dude !
Didn't I comment this in Blue Order's video "How Star Vs Foe fell from Grace" if you Agree with me that's completely fine but you don't have to copy word per word :P
I agree.
Two things. For starters the whole destroy the magic thing came out of left field and felt like an excuse to do something drastic to change things up. There was a lot of foreshadowing to a big war where Marco and Star would've picked separate sides in the first season so the whole destroy magic was just a slap in the face to that. The other issue comes from its main antagonist of the season, Mina. She barely makes appearances before all of this and never really pushes the story where as Moon did. It feels like after Meteora they didn't really have an idea for where to go from there and honestly season 4 to me felt so confusing to follow at times. It wanted to push Starco and in the end harmed the end product.
It's like the legend of Korra. Each season had to be distinct because, from the start, even getting more than that first season seemed impossible. But it kept going. So it got hurt a lot by that development.
@@sunphoenix1231 Agreed however with legend of Korra, they atleast gave an ending that felt somewhat satisfying and better than SVTFOE
You really hit the nail on the head with Star and Marco. I think their friendship was awesome and I also think it could've been great representation of the idea that boys and girls CAN have healthy relationships without them turning romantic. There are a lot of people who do believe that the opposite sex can never be close friends without it turning romantic, which I don't think is true at all. Star could've sent a message to its audience that boys and girls can be best friends, love each other platonically, and still have romantic relationships on the side. There's nothing wrong with shipping Starco of course, but I've always felt that their friendship was more organic and interesting than their romance drama.
I'm sad that they threw all that potential away to have the "main guy and main girl end up together" overtired trope. It truly did feel like they were going to subvert that, and then they played it completely straight. Once again, there's nothing wrong with the main guy and main girl ending up together trope, and I've seen it done very well. But it's not going to work for every single show, and not every guy/girl friendship needs to turn romantic. In my opinion, it really didn't work well for this show and these characters.
Sadly, the generation the showrunners are from have the romcom idea that growing up means your parter is your best friend and family, which also means growing up involves breaking those old connections. Now that is starting to break down with people discovering just how toxic it is, but for a while there it was the romantic ideal.
The idea of a guy and a girl can't be friends is also lowkey homophobic if you think about it pretends they don't exist
Eh to me it always felt obvious they were going to end up a thing at some point. Though I wish it happened around season 3 so more focus could be put on other things.
I feel like Jackie was such a waste of a cool character. She added a surprising amount to show when she and Marco were dating. She bounced off the other characters well and was a strong emotional support for Marco which helped him to grow his confidence. I’m sad that when Marco broke up with her she basically disappeared from the story. She could’ve been great addition to the secondary Earth characters.
On the other hand, I glad Jackie was mature enough to have a clean break up once Marco admitted he had feelings for Star. She avoided getting caught up in the relationship drama that hurt other characters like Tom.
Aside from the narrative stuff, I was mostly annoyed about the shipping. I just, for once, want a boy + girl who stay friends. I enjoyed seeing them get along like a house fire (and setting a few) while seeing them have relationships outside of each other. Marco being a Latin Lover Boy with the various girls and that "did they" thing with Hekapoo when he had an adult life arc was incredible. Star helping catalyst the change in Tom to try and be better so they COULD have a better relationship.
But no. We can't have anything nice and have to reinforce the "boys + girls who are friends will always end up together" stigma that likely causes a LOT of entitlement based grief when growing up.
Star is based on the creator of the show and Marco is based on her husband which is why they ended up together.
yeah that's why I gave up on the show tbh. As soon as the show started to hint at romantic feelings I nopped out quick.
There are other shows that did a great job like amphibia or the owl house
@@catscanhavelittleasalami And it was so obvious it would be a terrible plotline by how they introduced it. They just cut to a character straight up telling us that Star love Marco. Yeah, great way to develop your characters.
Speaking of which, the show has a creepy obsession with "developing" their relationship under duress. "Tell everyone how you feel or you'll all be crushed in a box!" "You have to be together because of a Satanic moon!" "Kiss or I won't let you out of the photo booth!"
One of the big problems with the show (in terms of shipping) is that it looked like they were actively going the platonic friend route. There was a big thing about rejecting the Blood Moon and it was an important point for Marco (who btw is technically in his 30s) and Star about choosing their own future. Tom deserved better.
Also what’s up with Marco’s cheek marks I feel like that was supposed to be important.
im glad amphibia has no love interests for anne, not even salsa nd marcy,
@@tomkatt8274 it can ruin things, that and fans will make their own ships
@@tomkatt8274 lol Salsa
Good god, WHY did they think the "Marco is actually 30" thing was a good idea? It just led to even worse shipping wars!
@@deen7530 IMO that could've been used in an interesting way like actually setting him up with Hekapoo in a stable relationship with viewers discovering how that happened in "filler" episodes about the past. They could've touched upon how his sudden immaturity in the normal realm actually causes problems between them. Hell, he could have had a sidequest about unlock his adult form at will to both solve that issue and become a more useful fighter in the finale. Because seriously, he spent 16 years chasing after her and the fact NOTHING comes out of it is just wasted potential for no reason.
This show helped me make one of the most important friendships of my life. We were a bit shy around each other until she showed me her Star necklace she got from a comic con. When I saw it and she asked me if I knew who that was I started singing the theme song and she joined along. Even though we both acknowledge that the ending was terrible we’re still going strong almost 7 years later. So at least I can credit the show for giving me someone and something very special.
Aww, that's so sweet.
Super wholesome
That’s beautiful
That's adorable!
Heyo same! I was super active in the fandom when it was airing and to this day I still have a group of friends from my time there. We all discussed the finale too, we were super bummed how it turned out but at least it gave us something good, finding each other ^^
Just now realizing that Star might have committed mass genocide as I'd imagine many races would be made of magic like Hekapoo
Part of what makes that particular face in the thumbnail my favorite frame of animation is that it can be used to perfectly describe the shipping drama the show had to go through. And that's coming from someone who's just binging the show right now.
Average Internet Butterfly what's your favorite star vs the forces of evil character?
yooo
My farts are better than Saberspark’s farts
I was there when it all happened and it was a real clusterfuck.
Finally it here the video the videos every one agree to watch Https://th-cam.com/video/U0yMPah-rBU/w-d-xo.html
Crazy how they managed to make an ending that pissed everyone off lol
Lily Woodrow what's your favorite star vs the forces of evil character?
Nah, there are some crazy fans that defend the hell out of this garbage with the flimsiest defense.
@@joshwright4799 How so? Literally half the show finales or conclusion movies made in the past decade were disappointing.
Hmmm, lets see just from the top of my head:
- Samurai Jack Season 5
- Castlevania Season 4
- Game of Thrones
- Hey Arnold Movie
- Rocko's Modern Life Movie
- Dexter
- Two and a Half Men
- Office
- Lost
The point is, it's very easy to screw things up. So it's no surprising.
It would be more surprising if they didn't screw things up.
@@harryshuman9637 you missed Steven Universe
@@Shadowwolf-1337 Didn't watch that !#$%, but yeah I heard something about it being bad too.
I honestly did not care at all for the pairing of Star and Marco. Best friends becoming lovers is far too common - and while it works most of the time, there are times when it just shouldn't happen. Star and Marco were one of those cases (in my opinion), mostly because they had almost completely different personalities. Also, Marco already had Jackie Lynn in his life; and the two were perfect together. Why couldn't they just have Marco go to Star's world because he didn't like how things ended between them, and not because he actually had feelings for her - and Jackie promised to wait for him. That way they could have reunited in the end, and Star would have Tom by her side.
I agree.
Yeah
@@izaiahblue9163 Me too ditto
I wish! The creator (Nefcy) is Star and her husband is based on Marco so it was inevitable. Though Jackie seemed to be based on her too, idk who thought of this idea in the first place. Coupled by the fact Tom is based on her ex.
Really I more interpret it as Marco liked the idea of Jackie, I would say Jackie and Marco didn’t have that much in common either remember they barely spent any time together. To be honest at the end when they said they liked each other I was like this is not the time got damnit.
I just realised after watching this that, Eclipsa was crystalized for just being with a monster but Moon was just let free while she caused alot of destruction by helping Mina and got away with it with just forgiveness. I mean who here is in the wrong more, Eclipsa or Moon? They did Eclipsa dirty.
If I had a nickel for every show that aired its finale on May 19th, 2019 that started off as a smash hit with a dedicated fanbase but ended up angering literally everyone with its last episode, I would have two nickels. Which isn't a lot, but it's weird that it happened twice, right?
...what was the other show?
@@DarkQueenHelba game of thrones lol
@@DarkQueenHelba I think it's Game of Thrones.
@@ethank6452 This is one of the most shocking coincidences I've ever seen.
Two shows managed to have endings that pissed off everybody at the same time. Unreal.
@@DarkQueenHelba Game of Thrones!
I don’t blame the creators for the open-ended finale, but the execution was very lackluster. Magic itself being blamed for all of the issues felt like a random conclusion and drama point.
and murdering the entire MHC just felt so off.
In fact leading up to their deaths it felt like they suddenly got dumbbed down. ORigonally they were depicted as entirely proper and heroic even. I mean goat guy even sacrificed himself.
But in the final season they just start unreasonably hating globgor, eclipsa, and monsters desite being closer to monster than humans themselves ... but they're just suddenly depicted as mega unreasonable and stupid as if to make it justifiable when killed off screen.
@@metazoxan2Just like Dexter Season 4.
My main problem was how much they tried to force star and marco together. Hell the fact that the main reason for combining their worlds was so that star and marco could end up together in the end really rubs me the wrong way.
@@ezbeanz4208 I mean at first they hinted but my point still stands on how forced it was.
@@ezbeanz4208
They were hinting at the worlds being fused together? How?
@@ezbeanz4208
So that means they're going to merge when magic is destroyed? Because they had equal screen time in the TV series?
@@ezbeanz4208
So you like it because there was no indication it would happen? How does that make it good?
@@ezbeanz4208 But destroying the magic was just such a bad idea. Destroying the literal element the show is based around, and virtually ALL of Star’s development came from. All those episodes of Star learning how to use magic, literally saving all of magic itself, and gaining her butterfly form and mastering it, all for nothing.
Its like if at the end of ATLA Aang took away everyone’s bending forever. Its just extremely unsatisfying.
Two things that happened with Stfoe that I hates was Eclipsa not being related to Star and Star destroying the magic. These two things are things that ruined the show for me
This isn’t that important, but I REALLY hate how they treated the magical high commission. ESPECIALLY Rhombulus. He was one of my favorite characters in the show. His introduction into the show Solidified my love for his character. He was a guy that went with his gut all the time and made rash decisions. But when star in season 2 made him reflect on his ideas (which mirrored hers in a way) made him stop and think! He formed a fun bond with Star! It was like an older brother or fun uncle type mentor figure for her. I was really hoping they would keep that idea and energy up, but they made him a raging racist. I would be fine if they made him a villain but realize slowly that what he is doing is wrong and go to Star for help again! It would’ve been more impactful then just having him die a jerk. They gave so much hype of the MHC, but never played with introducing more backstory too them. We don’t know why Rhombulus and Lekmeth had a close bond, we don’t know why this and that happens with the MHC. It feels unfair to not only assassinate theses characters as a whole, but to kill them off as a j o k e. The only one redeemed was Heckapoo, she was the only one who stayed the same, still died due to this ending.
Really I am just mad they wasted so much potential on such good characters, to assassinate them, leave most in the dark only to be brought up or referenced once or twice. To destroy GOOD relationships all for the sake of one. And to create a messed up plot with just as many holes in them. They built it up to 2 and fell off h a r d after 3 & 4. It really ate me up inside when my favorite characters either became jerks and died never to be redeemed, or was just unjustly shafted out of relationships cause of “starco” purposes. The finale was a mess, Toffee should’ve stayed, the MHC should’ve been worked on more and (redeemed), and the shipping stayed on the side lines. For now all I can do is pretend that season 4 doesn’t exist and re-watch the first two seasons.
Yeah the mistreatment of the MHC is one of my main sticking points to.
IT would be fine if they were at least given development as villains and went out in an epic finale ... but instead they're just made into raging racists again monsters (despite looking like monsters themselves) with no reason given as to why they think this. ANd then they're shown just partying at the death of innocents before next being shown killed off as a joke.
IT's such a slap in the face if you liked any of their characters.
NOt to mention other characters like Pony Head are just ... okay so what is or isn't erased is SUPER inconsistent.
My main gripe was how they treated magic at the end destroying everything they built upon. But reading the comments, there's just so many different kinds of reasons people were mad at this show about. It's honestly very interesting - I was so disappointed at the conclusion at the end I didn't even watch the last episode. I've never done that before. I was actually surprised but relieved that I wasn't alone.
I've literally spent years working on what I call my "Rhombulous Rewrite" just to fix his arc. I actually came back to this video specifically to get inspiration and remember how angry the show made me so that I could finish the final parts. Glad to see more Rhombulous fans out there.
@@dangernoodledee111 Out of the entire MHC he was my favorite! The episode of him and Star bonding, showing how irrational and immature, but good natured in his heart he was made me love him even more. I was heart broken to see how he was re written. And I was hoping so bad near the end, they would flip the switch and he would just go back- cause him and Star were friends! But it’s unfortunate that it never happened and he just died in the end being a raging racist. I would love to read your re-write though! Where can I read it?
I really hate that in the prior episodes, Glossaryck says that he thinks the magic is in good hands, and then in the finale he says to Star that he thinks she did the right thing.
Yes, the magic is in such good hands... good hands to strangle it to death. 😮💨
Star destroying magic also makes us question why Toffee was killed off so quickly if he was doing the "right thing" according to the show. It kind of leaves a bitter taste in my mouth, because if they were going this direction anyway, why didn't they just use a perfectly good character to drive this idea further?
From Toffee's perspective, magic was being used to kill his people, which is such an organic motivation for him. Star making the same decision last minute after seeing for the longest time all the good that magic can do just feels forced imo.
I think it's more malicious that all the shipping was done to string along *everyone* when in the end none of it actually mattered. It says something when you feel more for the characters your main characters were with then you do with the main characters as a whole. Every relationship felt worthwhile except the one we were eventually given in the end. Go figure.
Well naruto was pretty popular, and the same thing hapenned there
I hate that glossaryk just dies in the end and we have no idea what happens to kelly-
I think I stopped watching Star after S3 and just never bothered to catch up, but I know about the ending and all the shipping drama. It’s definitely a shame the series lost focus and fumbled because it had a fun premise and Star has one of my favorite designs for a main cartoon lead, and her voice actress is wonderful at showcasing such cartoony energy!
Micheal C. Hall as Toffee was a fantastic pick, for those who recognize him he was the lead in Showtimes Dexter. He’s got a fantastic voice, he should be voice acting a lot more in media.
Agreed! I *LOVE* Michael C. Hall as Toffee.
I stopped after S2 or 3 so I feel you on that as well
It was confirmed by Dominic, the producer that the show was being written as production went along. This writing method works if you're writing a fun cartoon like Spongebob, but if you write like that for a story-driven show like *Star vs. the Forces of Evil* - that's a huge problem
The creators of Venture Bros have gone on record to say they made the entire show up as they went. They were just really good at remembering all the threads and skilled enough to weave them together in the moment to make it seem like it was planned that way all along
Unfortunately, that seems to be Disney's MO. They did the exact same Thing with the Star Wars movies. They were literally writing them as they were filming Them. Daisy Ridley is on record saying that the issue of Ray's parentage was still being decided as they were filming episode 9... It's no wonder the franchise is in the toliet at the moment. 1 Not helping matters is the fact that anybody who did have an idea of what they were doing Was kept away from the Star Wars movies, And basically NDA'ed or threatened into submission, and that the people in charge of Lucasfilm are political activists, not even qualified executives. In a more recent case of mismanagement from the studio, Kathleen Kennedy (the head bitch) Ordered the mighty morphing Vespa Rangers into "the book of Bob fett" not because she liked the idea, but Specifically because John Favreau hated them.
That's because the show is *storyboard-driven*; each episode starts with no script and the storyboarders develop the story with drawings.
Adventure Time, Regular Show, and Steven Universe were made the same way.
Take of that what you will.
I remember hearing that the reason starco was forced is because two of the writers were married and basically self inserted themselves as star and Marco. Especially with the blood moon ball where they essentially forced them from the beginning and did a bunch of loopty loops in relationships to make it seem natural when it wasnt at all. Honestly feel like if they were gonna do it so early in then they should have in season 1/2 and then the next ones are them working as a healthy teen couple. But of course that wouldnt be utilized at all bc it's SO much better to string things along and end up with a teen forced to be with a mentally 30 year old dude after committing genocide
It would have been so much better if they just stuck to one relationship. Than having Star and Marco get together last minute ughh.
"(...) and end up with a teen forced to be with a mentally 30 year old dude after committing genocide"
That's a string of words I'd thought I'd never hear.
@@XWierdThingsHappenX Alternatively; they could have a polycule.
@@ryanm.8720 expect that in about 10 years. shows tend to be a response to what the writers grew up with. The future showrunners who grew up with poly being a common theme in fanfic have not really hit the industry yet.
Tom was even based off of the creator's ex-boyfriend. Ironic how he eventually became one of the most beloved characters on the show.
You know? The ending of Star Vs reminds me of an episode of Adventure Time where Finn became a supreme wizard and had to prevent a city from being destroyed by a meteor with the help of other wizards. You see, the joke was that they could just destroy the meteor, but they decide to instead move the city so the meteor hits only the ground. They decide on a hypercomplex plan instead of a straightforward solution. It's a subtle but funny plot point.
In Star Vs, they took this path, but with a complete lack of self-awareness. They were a million ways they could have gone to stop Mina and his goons, but they decided to go for the worst solution possible: destroying all magic, which causes the death of billions of people across dimensions. Star never cares about any of this: she and her friends never suffer any consequences of this plan, even if they should. Ponyhead should just be immobile in the ground because she shouldn't fly without magic, but she still can. Mewni and Earth get separated, but it doesn't matter: reality changes and millions of people get screwed so she can have a perfect ending.
That's because a recurring theme on the show is that Star never has to suffer the consequences of her actions. Either people don't care, she is not affected, or the story doesn't think it's a big deal. She only keeps getting a worse person as the show reaches its ending, cheating on her partners, lying, manipulating people, being abrasive and impulsive, and overall being an insufferable brat who thinks it's the center of the world. But the show doesn't care about any of this because it thinks Star is simply a wacky goof instead of this awful person with sociopathic traits.
In retrospect, I think Star is an actual Mary Sue. People complain about characters like Korra (who can be unlikeable but suffers consequences and recognizes her mistakes) or Rey (who is not even unlikeable: she is just bland and poorly developed), but this is how a character who the show thinks is perfect and shouldn't change looks like.
That's a bit of a divisive statement. Star, as a character, is most definitely NOT a Mary Sue. Throughout the series, we see her learn and develop into a responsible and caring person, which would not be the case if she were a Mary Sue.
However, in terms of the narrative, Star is definitely a Mary Sue. Whenever Star makes a brash decision, there's barly any pushback from anyone, aside from a few one-off comments to lampshade the stupidity of these decisions. It's almost as if every time Star makes a decision, the writers are afraid of making them bad ones, and she doesn't really face the consequences of her actions--especially near the end.
That's part of why I was super disappointed by the end. It could have used two satisfying endings for the show: either Star makes a bad decision and suffers the world-changing consequences once and for all, or she makes a good decision and lives happily ever after. The series ends with Star making a bad decision and facing very little consequences for it.
Star as a character is totally fine, but it's almost like the series itself doesn't allow Star to learn from her actions, especially in season 4.
The shipping in the show annoyed me so much by the end I was kinda zoned out and wasn’t super surprised by how disappointing the ending was, in fact I barely remember the ending I only remember feeling bored and empty. It sucks because the show really did start off strong!
Man, it’s crazy to remember that the show ended with Star committing genocide in order to stop another genocide.
That’s a whole other level of depressing. 😔
I’m sure she and Eren Yeager would get along really well.
@@outdoorscholar6016 To be fair, Marley deserved EVERYTHING that happens to them. Lol at the comparison of Marley's treatment of its slave races to evil Germans, when those same oppressed people being absolutely hated by every single nation on the planet, were a horrific exterminator of other cultures that dwarfed Marx's Communist legacy killings.
@@outdoorscholar6016 hey at least aot recognizes that that won't fix anything so it is slightly more tolerable
More like she commited super genocide to stop a genocide. Still pretty bullshit the unicorn heads lived (and can still fly wtf), after removing all magic. You could tell it was done that way to not show actual consequences onscreen.
If I kill everyone then they won't have to die to that horrible event! -star
19:06 someone replace this scream with NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!
Ya know, there were a lot of theories as to who the final enemy would be. And a lot revolved around one character; Seth. Who is Seth? Well, he never actually appeared in the series. Only in supplemental materials. But Seth was of the same species as Toffee and was more extreme than Toffee. He could have been a really great antagonist like a Toffee 2.0. It would have been a great way to increase the stakes without destroying the characters already existing in the show. I would have loved if they’d gone in that direction. If anything, it could’ve been a good way to bring Ludo and Toffee in for the finale. But hey, we got what we got.
They even could have pulled the "toffee was actually right" twist like they did in the show if they had Seth. They could have a semi-redemption arch for Toffee's ideals by showing what Seth wanted and what Toffees actual plan was. Star could have been unwill allies to stop a bigger threat then parted with Toffee on a "we will never be alies, but at least we aren't trying to kill each other" note.
Oh yeah, I remember Seth. I didn't really care about him at the time because I didn't like his design and didn't really look into all of the theories about him, but yeah he would've been an interesting antagonist. Personally, though, I would've loved for Toffee to have lived, he was such an amazing antagonist.
@@SauceyRedHN he was and his voice was perfect
@@fallenking578 Oh yeah I loved his voice
I was a part of a community for this show as season 2 was airing, going into the third. I got to see the disappointment of everyone as the series progressed. It really felt like they just didn't know what to do after they had finished out the battle for Mewni.
Yeah, I think part of why Season 3 felt a bit more stagnant was because I think they spent too much time in Mewni when I always felt like Star worked at its best when it was Marco and Star on Earth getting involved in wacky adventures.
I was a fan from the beginning and I can safely say shipping ruined the fandom badly during late season 3 and going into season 4