We used to teach the student in our Machining class to do the exact calculation but then round the feed rate up or down to the next whole number then plug that back into the formula to recalculate the RPM because that way you have two whole numbers. For example your inch example gave you a rounded 38.4615 for the feed rate. I would round down in that case to 38 IPM then plug that back into the formula 38 = RPM/13 or RPM = 38 X 13 which comes out to RPM = 494. So now you have a RPM setting of 494 rather than 500 and an even feed rate that is not rounded at 38.
Haas may be able to handle a 4 place decimal feed rate and rigid tap without breaking it( I run one and think Haas does this just fine) but other machines struggle with keeping up and break taps. I like to do extra math more than I like removing broken taps.
Why not call out G95(Feed in units per revolution) before the G84 Line, then your F value simply equals the tap Pitch. This is safe as well if you change your S value. It's always the same. You don't have to change the F. Find it WAY safer if you edit at the machine.
+Bernie Koestlmaier Thanks Bernie. Check out the formulas in the Bonus Content 9bit.ly/1WDW8lS); we list everything we need for both G94 and G95 (feed per rev) feedrates. We typically use Feed per Minute on Mills and Feed per Rev on lathes, but many switch back and forth. If I’m on a Metric machine, programming a Metric Tap, I’ll often use a G95 feedrate, as the F is just the Pitch like you said. Hope this helps!
I did this exact tap on Friday, 1/2-13. 130 RPM and 10 IPM. it ripped the threads out. I used the pecked tapping method described in the other video. 1) Is there a function I need to turn on? 2) Recommend a good rigid tap holder system? Thanks Jim
I was taught to make the feed perfect, but like he said guys, you can round that 4th decimal. When you get down to tenths, it doesn't matter because the cnc will likely not sincrinize perfectly anyway. That's why they make floating tap holders for cncs. Just sayin...
I 'm new and learning by myself and really like Mark with his all tip and trick. one thing I'm looking for is how to set up the part and tool offset with real view on the machine from Mark
Try using 520RPM for the 1/2-13 and 508RPM for the M12x1.75. I always try to keep me feed rate in whole numbers or at least with as few decimals as possible.
Agreed, we always run on the idea that you pick a feed and multiply it by the pitch to get spindle speed, example, 1/2-13 running at F15.0 times 13 equals S195. Of course this is dependent on materials, buy you get the idea.
I struggled with the math, but the logic behind it is: 13 TPI is 1 inch divided by 13 revs, so 1 rev is 0.0769" depth, or 500 revs (in a minute) times .0769 inches per rev=38.4615 inches (in a minute), which allows me to understand it better. If you prove the number you get 500/38.4615, you get 13.000013000013000013000013000013 which not only an interesting number, but only off by 1/100,000". For metric, same thing, pitch (1.75) is distance per rev, so 1.75/25.4=inches/rev (0.0688) times 500 revs in a minute=34.4488 inches in a minute. I realize it is exactly the same as what Mark is showing, but in a way my pea brain can digest. Great vid and thank for the PDF's.
your videos are awesome you just help me help my dad today with the large tool video in the tool table i run a mazak right behind him he a hass guy had well you know im a mazak Guy nothing against hass just like the mazak a little more .he dont do youtube because he an old Mexican guy that dont speak much English but he a hell of a machinists. He showed me all i know now its nice to show him some things too. we work together in the same company we make aerospace and gas and oil but i just wanted to say thanks for the videos keep and them coming
Hey Haas, none of these links are current. Could someone please edit the video description to include the bonus material mentioned in the video? Thank you.
We're tapping on lots of the stainless steel series 300 material and our taps don't last long. We're using Emugee Tap and tap with 306 rpm with 1/4-20 tap and the feed rate is 306/20. The tap depth is normally about .700" deep. Do you have any suggestions? If the tap depth is too deep, do I have to tap it twice instead of tap one shot?
You should be able to make those threads in one-shot, without peck tapping. If the taps aren’t lasting long, check your feed calculations (306RPM, ¼-20 tap = G20 G94 F15.3), then I would definitely take a look at your coolant concentration, make sure it’s nice and rich, checking it with a refractometer. Do a test with rich coolant. Next, look at the tap. Emuge makes some terrific taps (Z-tap, stainless). Speak with the Emuge rep and work with them to make sure you are running the ideal tap for the job; they’ll help with RPM. You can also make sure that Parameter 57 Bit 4 RIGID TAPPING is set to a 1, ON.
Mike Mai for stainless, I drill the hole a bit bigger. For 1/4-20, maybe 5-10 thousandths larger hole will fix the problem without making the thread weak :)
short answer is no, the canned tapping cycle handles all that for you. you could make the argument for adding a dwell AFTER each hole to let the coolant blow chips off the cutter, but thats not usually necessary.
+A. Sink You should be able to click the top link at the end of the video, or just visit diy.haascnc.com/bonus-content-episode-25-mill-tapping-formulas. Thanks for checking!
Madhu S - Check out this video we did on Tapping in Metric Mode th-cam.com/video/ZF2CImA0k5E/w-d-xo.html . Thanks for the comment. - Mark, Haas Tip-of-the-day
pop pop - Take a look at the Haas Shop Notes booklet, it has some good general information on drill size selection diy.haascnc.com/sites/default/files/Locked/3/shop_notes_reference%20guide_2018.pdf. Tapping Catalogs will have charts showing what size drills to use, for both Cutting Taps and Form Taps (Form taps have larger drilled holes). Both the Emuge and OSG Tap catalogs list drill sizes for specific sizes. - Mark, Haas Tip-of-the-day
To be correct all the time you should do the calculation with the with the lead value. Lead and pitch are only the same for single start threads. For that once in every other lifetime when you use a 2 or 3 start tap.;)
Andre - I loved your comment. We confuse lead and pitch all the time. Because they are usually the same (cross your fingers), we tend to get sloppy with our words. Lead = the axial distance a tap travels with one full revolution. Pitch = the axial distance between threads. Thanks for the comment. - Mark, Haas Tip-of-the-day
Here is the updated link to the bonus content:
www.haascnc.com/video/Video-Bonus-Content.html
Thanks for watching!
We used to teach the student in our Machining class to do the exact calculation but then round the feed rate up or down to the next whole number then plug that back into the formula to recalculate the RPM because that way you have two whole numbers. For example your inch example gave you a rounded 38.4615 for the feed rate. I would round down in that case to 38 IPM then plug that back into the formula 38 = RPM/13 or RPM = 38 X 13 which comes out to RPM = 494. So now you have a RPM setting of 494 rather than 500 and an even feed rate that is not rounded at 38.
That’s just more math and slower tapping just to have a whole number. Doesn’t make sense to me but you do you.
CNC really doesn't care, a number is a number. Being a round number is good only in your head, for CNC it's a number like any other.
Haas may be able to handle a 4 place decimal feed rate and rigid tap without breaking it( I run one and think Haas does this just fine) but other machines struggle with keeping up and break taps. I like to do extra math more than I like removing broken taps.
Why not call out G95(Feed in units per revolution) before the G84 Line, then your F value simply equals the tap Pitch. This is safe as well if you change your S value. It's always the same. You don't have to change the F. Find it WAY safer if you edit at the machine.
+Bernie Koestlmaier Thanks Bernie. Check out the formulas in the Bonus Content 9bit.ly/1WDW8lS); we list everything we need for both G94 and G95 (feed per rev) feedrates. We typically use Feed per Minute on Mills and Feed per Rev on lathes, but many switch back and forth. If I’m on a Metric machine, programming a Metric Tap, I’ll often use a G95 feedrate, as the F is just the Pitch like you said. Hope this helps!
I don't see the physics connection between rpm and tpi. For me, the formula is just fitting by chance, so there's no reason to use 4 decimals.
I did this exact tap on Friday, 1/2-13. 130 RPM and 10 IPM. it ripped the threads out. I used the pecked tapping method described in the other video. 1) Is there a function I need to turn on? 2) Recommend a good rigid tap holder system? Thanks Jim
not sure if you got resolution yet, but on a HAAS there is setting for this (something like "rigid tap repeat") it should be right with retract speed.
I was taught to make the feed perfect, but like he said guys, you can round that 4th decimal. When you get down to tenths, it doesn't matter because the cnc will likely not sincrinize perfectly anyway. That's why they make floating tap holders for cncs. Just sayin...
I 'm new and learning by myself and really like Mark with his all tip and trick.
one thing I'm looking for is how to set up the part and tool offset with real view on the machine from Mark
+Dunn -Ng Great topic suggestion Dunn. We’ll plan to make one for both the Mill and Lathe, just a quick start-to-finish video. Stay tuned!
Thanks for reply ,hope we get it soon
Try using 520RPM for the 1/2-13 and 508RPM for the M12x1.75. I always try to keep me feed rate in whole numbers or at least with as few decimals as possible.
Tyfunk 02 I think decimals are ok man. It's even ok if to round the decimals as close as possible. The cnc can't sincrinize perfectly anyway
You're right, why make your feedrate a decimal when you can make it a whole number, that way you avoid any rounding errors!
Agreed, we always run on the idea that you pick a feed and multiply it by the pitch to get spindle speed, example, 1/2-13 running at F15.0 times 13 equals S195. Of course this is dependent on materials, buy you get the idea.
My machine is in metric mode and i want to perform inch tapping 28-TPI. Pls suggest me what codes i have to use ..
I just use the TPI x feed, then I get a good number.
I struggled with the math, but the logic behind it is: 13 TPI is 1 inch divided by 13 revs, so 1 rev is 0.0769" depth, or 500 revs (in a minute) times .0769 inches per rev=38.4615 inches (in a minute), which allows me to understand it better. If you prove the number you get 500/38.4615, you get 13.000013000013000013000013000013 which not only an interesting number, but only off by 1/100,000". For metric, same thing, pitch (1.75) is distance per rev, so 1.75/25.4=inches/rev (0.0688) times 500 revs in a minute=34.4488 inches in a minute. I realize it is exactly the same as what Mark is showing, but in a way my pea brain can digest. Great vid and thank for the PDF's.
Hi Haas.
how to do thread interpolation?
how to activate the IPS option for DXF Import work
where is the bonus link?
your videos are awesome you just help me help my dad today with the large tool video in the tool table i run a mazak right behind him he a hass guy had well you know im a mazak Guy nothing against hass just like the mazak a little more .he dont do youtube because he an old Mexican guy that dont speak much English but he a hell of a machinists. He showed me all i know now its nice to show him some things too. we work together in the same company we make aerospace and gas and oil but i just wanted to say thanks for the videos keep and them coming
Mitsubishi controls have a g84 that just takes an E value of the TPI and it does the math, so you just give RPM and x,y,z,r,e in the canned cycle
Thank you so much for your job !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Not a machinist but rocket surgery it is not. If you don’t understand thread pitch, find something else to do.
Machining is for smart people. I don’t know what rocket surgery is for? 😂😂😂
Hey Haas, none of these links are current. Could someone please edit the video description to include the bonus material mentioned in the video? Thank you.
Hello Denny, We just created a new webpage for all the video bonus content. Here is it: www.haascnc.com/video/Video-Bonus-Content.html
Thanks!
"easily" the american says
With 4 decimals
video in mm?
We're tapping on lots of the stainless steel series 300 material and our taps don't last long. We're using Emugee Tap and tap with 306 rpm with 1/4-20 tap and the feed rate is 306/20. The tap depth is normally about .700" deep. Do you have any suggestions? If the tap depth is too deep, do I have to tap it twice instead of tap one shot?
You should be able to make those threads in one-shot, without peck tapping. If the taps aren’t lasting long, check your feed calculations (306RPM, ¼-20 tap = G20 G94 F15.3), then I would definitely take a look at your coolant concentration, make sure it’s nice and rich, checking it with a refractometer. Do a test with rich coolant. Next, look at the tap. Emuge makes some terrific taps (Z-tap, stainless). Speak with the Emuge rep and work with them to make sure you are running the ideal tap for the job; they’ll help with RPM. You can also make sure that Parameter 57 Bit 4 RIGID TAPPING is set to a 1, ON.
Mike Mai for stainless, I drill the hole a bit bigger. For 1/4-20, maybe 5-10 thousandths larger hole will fix the problem without making the thread weak :)
Does this formulas work for cutting and forming taps?
same formula for form taps, the hole size is generally larger..
Should you use a dwell when you get to the bottom of the holes, to give the spindle time to reverse?
short answer is no, the canned tapping cycle handles all that for you. you could make the argument for adding a dwell AFTER each hole to let the coolant blow chips off the cutter, but thats not usually necessary.
Great video!
Are tutoríals in Spanish? Thanks
where can i find the bonus content, i don't see a link and i can't find it on the Haas site.
+A. Sink
You should be able to click the top link at the end of the video, or just visit diy.haascnc.com/bonus-content-episode-25-mill-tapping-formulas. Thanks for checking!
When machine is in mm what is the formula for feed in metric tap
Madhu S - Check out this video we did on Tapping in Metric Mode th-cam.com/video/ZF2CImA0k5E/w-d-xo.html . Thanks for the comment. - Mark, Haas Tip-of-the-day
Thank you sir 🙏
MUCHAS GRACIAS
How to calculate drill size for taps?
pop pop - Take a look at the Haas Shop Notes booklet, it has some good general information on drill size selection diy.haascnc.com/sites/default/files/Locked/3/shop_notes_reference%20guide_2018.pdf. Tapping Catalogs will have charts showing what size drills to use, for both Cutting Taps and Form Taps (Form taps have larger drilled holes). Both the Emuge and OSG Tap catalogs list drill sizes for specific sizes. - Mark, Haas Tip-of-the-day
Thanks mark
To be correct all the time you should do the calculation with the with the lead value. Lead and pitch are only the same for single start threads.
For that once in every other lifetime when you use a 2 or 3 start tap.;)
Andre - I loved your comment. We confuse lead and pitch all the time. Because they are usually the same (cross your fingers), we tend to get sloppy with our words. Lead = the axial distance a tap travels with one full revolution. Pitch = the axial distance between threads. Thanks for the comment. - Mark, Haas Tip-of-the-day
You made an error in the beginning. It should be 'Programing a standard or imperial tap' not 'Programming a metric or standard tap' . 😂