Here is a great and simple way to drive a flyback. My Instructable of doing this www.instructabl... Credit: • How to wire a flyback ... www.instructabl...
Keystone Science thank you! i havent made a new video of my finished coil but ive gotten a way better output now, its soo much fun! you building a sstc or a sgtc?
Your ZVS driver didn't work, probably because the gates of your MOSFETs are connected. The heat sinks are internally connected to the gate, and if you want to use a single heat sink for both, you need a high temperature plastic electrical insulator to transfer the heat but not the electricity. They make them specifically for this purpose, or I suppose you could try improvising with scotch tape.
Those circuits in cfl's are ballasts, they are the same as the bigger ones, the bigger ones can more than double the output of a small cfl ballast, and take alot longer to burn out. Removing the outer Aluminium casing and replacing it with dedicated heatsinks on the Transistors and submerging in oil, and that thing will run flybacks all day. xD
Not me, corbonzo1 is the guy playing with the high voltage - I'm just sitting here watching. Pretty soon people will look at this and ask what a flyback transformer is and what were they used for.
I knew that, my point was that while high voltage transformers are going to continue to exist a "flyback" transformer is specific to CRTs and probably going away soon.
The reason the ZVS driver failed was prubably due to long woreds going everywhere. The tank capacitor should be connected as close to the flycanck primary as possible, and the wiring between comunents must be as short ass possible to reduce stray capacitance and indictance. Aso I found that 12V 1W zener diodes burn out easly, so if you can, double up on them in parralel to double up on the current handling.
You won't get the performance out of your TC that you may be hoping for if you power it with a flyback, certainly not a TC of that size. Flybacks produce fairly high voltages but low current. Lower than the lowest NST's, usually less than 2-5 mA. While high voltages are needed to fire a spark gap, voltages of 6-14 KV are the desirable range with 20-30 being really higher than you need and harder on tank caps. You'll need many caps to make strings capable of 20-30 KV plus an additional 10-15 KV for a safety margin, which will cost you more than you need to spend. You'll also end up with a power supply/tank cap mismatch for the performance you're hoping for. Large tank caps will pull more than your flyback will be able to supply for a desirable SG firing rate, and it puts stress on a ballast to do so which is why many people say they've burned out many CFL ballasts, because the base/gate resistors usually burn out from pulling too much current, and take the semiconductors with them. Large ballasts are more robust but still can only do so much with a flyback and the very fine wire secondary and current regulating internal resistor that most DC flybacks have, as well as the frequency mismatch of the 25 KHz, or so, ballast and the large CRT DC flyback's 15, or so, KHz resonant frequency. You certainly can power a small TC with a flyback though. I've done it before just fine using a large DC flyback from a big screen CRT, a ballast like your's, and a TC with a 28 cm tall x 6 cm diameter resonator, spiral 6 mm copper tubing "pancake" primary, 5 cm tube diameter x 20 cm ring diameter toroidal top load, a static multi spark gap using spherical electrodes, and an MMC of 32, 10 KV 0.01 ceramic disc and 6 Leyden jar caps. I added and subtracted caps to get the most my flyback could charge with a good firing rate, and with the best tuning I got fast, thin, whispy arcs that broke out all around the edges of the top load, even with a breakout point (breakout point didn't make the arcs just come out at it, they continued to emerge from the rest of the edges of the top load,) and were only about 14 cm in length, arcing to air, and close to 20 cm arcing to a grounded electrode. They were certainly high in voltage, and when I placed a clear globe bulb on the topload, arcs coming off of the filament passed through the glass and came out the upper part of the bulb. Its output is impressive for being flyback powered, but nowhere near the 30-60 cm arcing to air, undulating arcs that are so cool with TC's with appropriate power supplies. Just make sure to use two sets of protection air core inductors of 26, up to no bigger than 22 AWG wound on PVC tubing, safety RF gaps across the supply before and between the air core inductors, and have your main spark gap across the supply and tank cap in series to keep as much RF out of the flyback as possible. The flyback's windings are so fine that RF of hundreds of KHz, or a MHz or two if a small enough TC, could be murder in the flyback's secondary. The low current capability of the flyback, combined with the fact that wire in inductor coil windings can carry a little more current than the same conductor being used as a transmission line, means you can use a fairly small wire gauge for your protection inductors, like 26 AWG, and that would be better than a larger gauge like 22 or 20. A large DC charging inductor with preferably a ferrite core and a couple hundred turns of 26-24 AWG and a 40 KV de-Q-ing diode/diode string will be helpful to keep RF out of the flyback as well. If the charging inductor was designed so its value was appropriate, the de-Q-ing diode is not necessary. And I'm sure it goes without saying that all of your conductors in your primary tank need to be heavy, with as low of a resistance as possible, so the LC oscillations can be as unimpeded as possible for best performance, and tune it to as close to a perfect res frequency match as possible, and you should get an appreciable performance out of a flyback TC. Only use heavy conductors in the primary tank though and not in the supply and protection/charging inductors because you need to maintain a good impedance match to the low current output of the flyback and so the inductors can provide a high enough impedance to RF. Another improvement worth considering is a smoothing cap across the flyback's output. A large Leyden jar, (foil in and out, not salt water cap,) some alternating sheets of Al foil and polyethylene sandwiched between plexi, or strings of caps to add some smoothing and fill in some of the zero volt half wave gaps could help improve the power input to your primary tank a bit. The thing about the flyback retaining some charge after the ballast being turned off has to do with the way DC flybacks work and the air gap between the two halves of the ferrite core posts inside the coils. The DC Flyback, or Line Output Transformer, is not a forward topology transformer like a NST, or MOT, where the primary and secondary are conducting all the time during each sinusoidal half wave. Forward topology transformers like mains step down/up transformers, NST's, and MOT's normally don't saturate their cores unless they're like an MOT, not current limited, and a negative resistance discharge like an arc is struck for too long causing more and more current draw, core saturation, core heating, and breaker trip. A DC flyback has stacked pancake shaped coils in series that make up its secondary, and is equipped with half wave rectifier diodes that block the flow of secondary current during the drive transistor's on state. The flyback's primary is driven by the Horizontal Output Transistor (HOT) which is driven with a DC square wave. The presence of the deflection yoke coil in the circuit causes current in the flyback's primary to take on a sawtooth ramp up, and sudden drop to zero when the HOT turns off. During the on time, and current ramp, current does not flow due to the half wave rectifier diodes, and the flyback ferrite core is building magnetic flux strength and storing energy as an inductor but kind of like a capacitor as well. The air gap in the ferrite core flattens the flyback's hysteresis curve, and allows it to store more energy by decreasing the permeability of the core, and avoids core saturation. Once the HOT turns off, and interrupts primary current flow, the stored energy in the core is injected into the secondary resulting in a sharp voltage pulse and descending secondary current ramp. So its ouput waveform is not sinusoidal but instead is kind of like an ignition coil's. Also flybacks have two drive modes, discontinuous and continuous modes. Flybacks driven in discontinuous mode have their primary current start at zero, it ramps up to full DC voltage, and cuts off. Secondary current starts high as soon as the primary current cuts off, and ramps down to zero V. In continuous mode primary current starts at a voltage above zero V, ramps to full DC voltage, then cuts off. Secondary current starts high as primary current cuts off, and ramps down, stopping at a voltage above zero V, not at zero V. And the problem with the ZVS driver you mentioned, I'm sure you know well by now, is that the transistors didn't look like they were electrically isolated from each other, on the same heat sink. Separate heat sinks would be best, but if not an option, insulators would be a necessity. The ZVS driver is your best option for using a flyback to power a TC. The ZVS driver turns the ten turn center tapped primary and capacitor(s) into a primary resonant tank. It oscillates at the flyback's resonant frequency and drives the most power through it with great performance. The current output is amazing and adjusting the 47-200 uH inductor to a low value at or close to the 47 uH lower limit, will cause it to output more current than voltage, and for a flyback more current/less voltage is the best for TC work. Getting the flyback output down to 8-10 KV, and up to 10-15 mA or more, would be excellent for a small to medium sized table top TC. Also the 200/500/500 V, IRFP250/260/460 are a must have transistor. People have tried other MOSFETs and pretty much no others perform well, with some not even working at all. So the IRFP250/260/460 are the best and only MOSFETs for the ZVS. If you look for table top SSTC schematics you would see that there isn't a whole lot to them and the components could be purchased for as low as $50. That would give you some impressive arcs. Or check out a VTTC schematic and get an MOT, a 12 V 3 A transformer, some resistors, capacitors, and some vacuum tubes and have as close to as impressive of a TC.
were you shocked by the Ballast or the Flyback? With the ballast make sure its properly grounded to earth ground. there should be three wires to it, earth, neutral, and live. Make sure you're utilize all three. if there is no green (earth ground) you can make one by connecting a wire to the metal casing. make sure you expose bare metal if its painted. If you're getting shocked by the flyback after its unplugged its because there is usually a built in capacitor. to prevent this I always remember to short out ground and the HV line after it has been unplugged before I touch any part of the flyback.
@@corbonzo1 i was shocked by the unplugged ballast, it wasnt ground idk if that makes a difference (it ofc does with real world applications, but I didn't think i had to with the flyback)
I was wondering about those old utility mount ballasts. I assumed they were just a momentary HV ignition which then feeds 60 Hz line voltage and that it was simply current limited 120 via the ballast afterwards. I like ZVS but I have LOTS of flybacks and projects so the ballast tricks are just too convenient to skip. Too bad they are going rapidly extinct along with the flybacks.
Nope, your flyback is a DC flyback, AC flybacks can be found in old TVs. And the simplest driver I find it to be the one with 1 transistor and 2 resistors, stuff that you can get from the TV you got the flyback from. Nice video though.
Gordon Freeman I said best and easiest, two qualities mixed, Ive used those drivers as well, they're super easy, but there output is meh. of all the other ways to drive this is the next easiest way, and it has great output. and youre right and wrong about it not being ac. theres three types of flybacks, old full ac ones. ones with diodes so both dc and ac are present, and then the new ones which have hv caps built in, i have the diode one in the video, which has some ac current allowing much more arcing capability.
You have a DC Flyback, the AC Flyback would hold no charge at all, also I pretty sure because I actually disassembled an identical tv! Your board out of the tv is the same as mine, the Flyback in that tv is a DC Flyback.
if the flyback came off that board, its not an AC flyback. you find AC flybacks in TV's from the 60's and earlier usually. That board you showed was from the 90's i believe (you're making me feel old). Flyback transformersd out of large Sony trinitron tv's like that have really powerful flybacks with nice hot arcs.
I hate you tube safety nannies but be careful with the output of those ballasts because they will shock the piss out of you!! Just use common sense and make all connections/terminations with the power off.
haha thanks! bad thing is the output of this thing is the least of my problems, MOT transformers and NST's are much more dangerous, no worries tho, been doing it for around 6s years without any issues
Oh yeah, one mistake with a unmodified MOT will most likely kill you! Still, their fun to draw arcs from! Ive been hit too many times to count with ballast voltage in my young,stupid days, most likely you will be ok but they still hurt! The shock actually hurts much more than 120V line voltage, . I wont say the same about 277V used for commercial/industrial power, 277V is something you wont forget,
Yeah that's a good way to power ya flyback mate' I did that some years ago' But it's a shame you can't get a circuit built mate! Keep trying you will get there in the end' 👍😉 never give up!! 😊 👍👍👍👍👍THUMBS UP👍👍👍👍👍 ⚡~High1voltage1rules~⚡
The ballast puts out roughly 600v rms at about .6 ma. It’s awsome and quick. Be sure to ground your stuff lol. And plz wear sunglasses if your playin around a lot it does produce a high enough Uv rays to hurt your eyes bud. Nice vid ty for sharing.
I did this once, but minus the oil insulation. (Oops) The ballast burnt out, but the arcs were incredible. I plan on doing this some other time but with oil to prevent burning out the ballast.
Yes please replace this video with something more stable. A video you can actually look at , and you do talk a lot but not saying much. Change it and I would like to watch and share you videos....
Does it need to be a magnetic ballast? I made one and a CFL circuit powers it but I hook it up to any 3 of my philips advance ballasts and nothing? Just curious what I'm doing wrong. I know the ballasts work...
DJ Maxus hmm I’m pretty sure it doesn’t have to be a magnetic ballast but I could be wrong. I’ve heard some ballast won’t power on unless all the leads are connected. Have you tried putting them all in parallel?
@@corbonzo1 so like all red n blue wires together and then the yellows together? I haven't tried that yet. I did try crossing different wires ect... with not even a spark. But yet that little cfl works.
@@corbonzo1 so I hooled the blue wires together and then the red together and capped the yellows and get an arc now but its only about half the size as the arc from the cfl ballast. Just doesn't make sense. Is it frequency? I would think a 8 foot t12 ballast would be more powerful than a tiny cfl.
@@perrykaleb6 thats good news! that mean all leads just need to be used. parallel will give less voltage but a higher amperage which is useful for certain applications. now try series. one yellow to flyback. both blues to the other yellow, and then both reds as the other flyback lead. If that works it should give you the optimal HV from your ballast. It has been a long time since I did this project, I recommend writing down every combination of wires from the ballast you can think of and trying each one and record the results. They seem to be pretty hardy and I never fried mine. thats the way I figured out the best setup and a lot of ballasts are set up differently
Next time solder a wire to the ground from the bottom of the board under the flyback, the board usually says ground and you'll no longer fry your board!
haha i bet! i think im going to try again, i may have found my issue. i didnt have pads under them! so i think the drains shorted out, what was i thinkin? hahah
It worked very well for dc flyback as well, I got up to 2 inch arcs on mine. Also, what is the specs off that ballast, mine burned out awhile ago, and I want to get the same one
I have 2 question .. the first is should I protect it with a diode (between the ballast and the flyback)? if so, what kind? My second question is that the capacitor "home made" would do the job?
nothing has happened to my ballast and ive used it alot, so you should be fine without using a diode, what are you using a cap for? the output of the flyback? if so yes, you can
its a must, i killed 3 of my flybacks almost instantly before figuring out they needed to be in oil. it runs them at pre high freq. and they jump outputs in the bottom, which ends up burning them out. the oil stops that from happening. just go to Walgreens or any place with baby stuff and but a bottle or two of baby oil
thanks for the vid,good and helpful. I was wondering if the output can be used for electro static plates for ebner effect experiments on plants or will that just make a homemade popcorn maker.
thank you! I've never heard of that, looks like some really interesting stuff. after a quick glance of what it is I'm thinking this kind of power output is too low of voltage and freq. my guess is you need corona and ozone? which this setup doesn't produce much up even right before breakout point. A different driver type would work better i think. the 555 is what comes to mind if you're wanting to stay in the area of flybacks. but i do understand it has to be able to run for a long period of time. getting the right flyback and using this ballast method might work, but you'd have to keep it from full arching, otherwise, yes a popcorn maker XD
+Spreedator 1000 hmmm. well i THINK vegitable oil would work, but not well for very long. from experience with saltwater capacitors topped off the vegitable oil as an isulator, its gets moldy very quickly. I would really urge you to just go out and get some baby oil(Mineral oil). its cheap and you can find it at most stores like wallgreens or target
Unfortunately, I haven't tested it, but it is a lot, at least 6kv, but it depends on the flyback too. it's a very steady reliable output, been using mine for 4 years with no problems
If you beef it up, pule it with a feedback coil tied to the gate of a mosfet and connect the thing to marx generator. You will need high woltage capacitors. Those you can also make at home with aluminium foil and some plastic sheets
I have read that mineral oil is dangerous because it has a low flash point; if it caught fire it would be difficult to put out and could be dissatrous in a home. Vegetable oil has a much higher flash point. I saw your comments on it going mouldy and absorbinng water, but that container you have looks like it could easily be made air-tight. What do you think?
not sure where you read that... vegetable oil has many impurities and mineral oil is used to insulate transformers on an industrial level. its the standard. If vegetable oil was better, they would be using that because it is cheaper.
I read it on Wikipedia and they are replacing mineral oil because of these concerns. It specifically mentions that it is not suitable to be used indoors.; en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transformer_oil#Mineral_oil_alternatives
wow. thats really interesting. Thankfully at the power levels I work with a flash over is not possible and I always check for leaks, and i make sure there are no contaminates such as water. thanks for showing me that! I guess I just always liked the idea of mineral oil because it does not mold and doesnt smell. But clearly its the better and safer alternative
corbonzo1 I have successfully used rubber bands to strap my phone to a tripod. Worked well. Better preparation would eliminate you needing to move around. Have what you want to show in place. Watch the eevblog videos, he shows stuff and does not make you motion sick.
My digital ballast works but it only runs for about 5 seconds and then it shuts itself off, and then I have to wait about a minute after unplugging it before it will switch on again. Any ideas as to how I can keep it running for longer than 5 seconds?
Self-Trained Professional hmmm, might be a built in safety feature of your ballast, which kind are you using, ive only used the one i have in the video, so i dont know much about them
hmm, i'll try that, just as soon as i get a new ballast. I burned mine out by putting a little inductor from a CFL circuit in series with the flyback primary. The arcs were amazing though
@@corbonzo1 the ballast only has a black input wire the 120 common bypasses the ballast and hits both tombstones on one end of the light fixture and the hot line goes to the black wire in ballast which has 2 blue and 1 yellow wires out of one end and 2 red 1 yellow out of the other end I've never seen this configuration with a ballast
ya im just talking about that xformer, hmm i have no idea why that would have happened besides maybe some arcing inside the xformer that was hitting the leads to the ballast and frying it
Corbonzo thank you .Im making it for my school science project. And trying it to power it with flyback . with a simple spark gap and homemade glass bottle capacitor . If am missing something please help me
Himanshu Attkan yeah that is the general setup, just a heads up though, SGTC are actually way harder to get going then SSTC. less components, but require a ton of math, its so much hit and miss, id highly recommend doing the calculations for your flyback SGTC. save you a lot of time in the long run
Himanshu Attkan but definitely headed the right directing as far as how youre going to power it, just make sure you make a high quality secondary coil, and if you can build a rotatory spark gap. the homemade capacitors work great, JUST BE CAREFUL, they hold a nasty spark just like any cap and are very difficult to discharge, id highly recommend putting them all together in a tub with a top, with outputs coming out. also make a secondary with splits in it so you can easily test different windings, thats why you see a lot of people use copper piping and just a clip lead. This is because all your tunning is going to be in the capacitors and the primary winds since your secondary coil and power supply will be fixed amounts
Perhaps not the best way, but defiantly a pretty easy way!! Great video!
personally, I've tried all the ways, and this has produced the most reliable output
+Corbonzo ahh I see, I prefer zvs myself, I made one a bit back and I have been able to get 60kv out of it :D
+Keystone Science by the way your tesla coil is very cool!!! I am still trying to get my coil to give me good enough arcs :P
Keystone Science thank you! i havent made a new video of my finished coil but ive gotten a way better output now, its soo much fun! you building a sstc or a sgtc?
+Corbonzo both xD I am going to start off trying to get a simple SGTC working then I'll try to make it a SSTC with audio modulation
Your ZVS driver didn't work, probably because the gates of your MOSFETs are connected. The heat sinks are internally connected to the gate, and if you want to use a single heat sink for both, you need a high temperature plastic electrical insulator to transfer the heat but not the electricity. They make them specifically for this purpose, or I suppose you could try improvising with scotch tape.
sorry about the shaky video :/
Those circuits in cfl's are ballasts, they are the same as the bigger ones, the bigger ones can more than double the output of a small cfl ballast, and take alot longer to burn out.
Removing the outer Aluminium casing and replacing it with dedicated heatsinks on the Transistors and submerging in oil, and that thing will run flybacks all day. xD
ya i think its like 135wat compared to the CFL's 16-80watt, i didn't realize you could do that, i might do that thanks
That's pretty nice output!
Interesting stuff, but watching this video full screen started to make me motion sick from all the camera moving around.
sorry :/ i use my phone to take the video, ill work more on keeping still. thanks for the comment!
Steve, I hate too ask what you are planning.
Not me, corbonzo1 is the guy playing with the high voltage - I'm just sitting here watching. Pretty soon people will look at this and ask what a flyback transformer is and what were they used for.
just for experimentation and high voltage. and to add, a flyback transformer is a type of high voltage transformer used in tube televisions
I knew that, my point was that while high voltage transformers are going to continue to exist a "flyback" transformer is specific to CRTs and probably going away soon.
The reason the ZVS driver failed was prubably due to long woreds going everywhere. The tank capacitor should be connected as close to the flycanck primary as possible, and the wiring between comunents must be as short ass possible to reduce stray capacitance and indictance. Aso I found that 12V 1W zener diodes burn out easly, so if you can, double up on them in parralel to double up on the current handling.
yo
You won't get the performance out of your TC that you may be hoping for if you power it with a flyback, certainly not a TC of that size. Flybacks produce fairly high voltages but low current. Lower than the lowest NST's, usually less than 2-5 mA. While high voltages are needed to fire a spark gap, voltages of 6-14 KV are the desirable range with 20-30 being really higher than you need and harder on tank caps. You'll need many caps to make strings capable of 20-30 KV plus an additional 10-15 KV for a safety margin, which will cost you more than you need to spend. You'll also end up with a power supply/tank cap mismatch for the performance you're hoping for. Large tank caps will pull more than your flyback will be able to supply for a desirable SG firing rate, and it puts stress on a ballast to do so which is why many people say they've burned out many CFL ballasts, because the base/gate resistors usually burn out from pulling too much current, and take the semiconductors with them. Large ballasts are more robust but still can only do so much with a flyback and the very fine wire secondary and current regulating internal resistor that most DC flybacks have, as well as the frequency mismatch of the 25 KHz, or so, ballast and the large CRT DC flyback's 15, or so, KHz resonant frequency. You certainly can power a small TC with a flyback though. I've done it before just fine using a large DC flyback from a big screen CRT, a ballast like your's, and a TC with a 28 cm tall x 6 cm diameter resonator, spiral 6 mm copper tubing "pancake" primary, 5 cm tube diameter x 20 cm ring diameter toroidal top load, a static multi spark gap using spherical electrodes, and an MMC of 32, 10 KV 0.01 ceramic disc and 6 Leyden jar caps. I added and subtracted caps to get the most my flyback could charge with a good firing rate, and with the best tuning I got fast, thin, whispy arcs that broke out all around the edges of the top load, even with a breakout point (breakout point didn't make the arcs just come out at it, they continued to emerge from the rest of the edges of the top load,) and were only about 14 cm in length, arcing to air, and close to 20 cm arcing to a grounded electrode. They were certainly high in voltage, and when I placed a clear globe bulb on the topload, arcs coming off of the filament passed through the glass and came out the upper part of the bulb. Its output is impressive for being flyback powered, but nowhere near the 30-60 cm arcing to air, undulating arcs that are so cool with TC's with appropriate power supplies. Just make sure to use two sets of protection air core inductors of 26, up to no bigger than 22 AWG wound on PVC tubing, safety RF gaps across the supply before and between the air core inductors, and have your main spark gap across the supply and tank cap in series to keep as much RF out of the flyback as possible. The flyback's windings are so fine that RF of hundreds of KHz, or a MHz or two if a small enough TC, could be murder in the flyback's secondary. The low current capability of the flyback, combined with the fact that wire in inductor coil windings can carry a little more current than the same conductor being used as a transmission line, means you can use a fairly small wire gauge for your protection inductors, like 26 AWG, and that would be better than a larger gauge like 22 or 20. A large DC charging inductor with preferably a ferrite core and a couple hundred turns of 26-24 AWG and a 40 KV de-Q-ing diode/diode string will be helpful to keep RF out of the flyback as well. If the charging inductor was designed so its value was appropriate, the de-Q-ing diode is not necessary. And I'm sure it goes without saying that all of your conductors in your primary tank need to be heavy, with as low of a resistance as possible, so the LC oscillations can be as unimpeded as possible for best performance, and tune it to as close to a perfect res frequency match as possible, and you should get an appreciable performance out of a flyback TC. Only use heavy conductors in the primary tank though and not in the supply and protection/charging inductors because you need to maintain a good impedance match to the low current output of the flyback and so the inductors can provide a high enough impedance to RF. Another improvement worth considering is a smoothing cap across the flyback's output. A large Leyden jar, (foil in and out, not salt water cap,) some alternating sheets of Al foil and polyethylene sandwiched between plexi, or strings of caps to add some smoothing and fill in some of the zero volt half wave gaps could help improve the power input to your primary tank a bit.
The thing about the flyback retaining some charge after the ballast being turned off has to do with the way DC flybacks work and the air gap between the two halves of the ferrite core posts inside the coils. The DC Flyback, or Line Output Transformer, is not a forward topology transformer like a NST, or MOT, where the primary and secondary are conducting all the time during each sinusoidal half wave. Forward topology transformers like mains step down/up transformers, NST's, and MOT's normally don't saturate their cores unless they're like an MOT, not current limited, and a negative resistance discharge like an arc is struck for too long causing more and more current draw, core saturation, core heating, and breaker trip. A DC flyback has stacked pancake shaped coils in series that make up its secondary, and is equipped with half wave rectifier diodes that block the flow of secondary current during the drive transistor's on state. The flyback's primary is driven by the Horizontal Output Transistor (HOT) which is driven with a DC square wave. The presence of the deflection yoke coil in the circuit causes current in the flyback's primary to take on a sawtooth ramp up, and sudden drop to zero when the HOT turns off. During the on time, and current ramp, current does not flow due to the half wave rectifier diodes, and the flyback ferrite core is building magnetic flux strength and storing energy as an inductor but kind of like a capacitor as well. The air gap in the ferrite core flattens the flyback's hysteresis curve, and allows it to store more energy by decreasing the permeability of the core, and avoids core saturation. Once the HOT turns off, and interrupts primary current flow, the stored energy in the core is injected into the secondary resulting in a sharp voltage pulse and descending secondary current ramp. So its ouput waveform is not sinusoidal but instead is kind of like an ignition coil's. Also flybacks have two drive modes, discontinuous and continuous modes. Flybacks driven in discontinuous mode have their primary current start at zero, it ramps up to full DC voltage, and cuts off. Secondary current starts high as soon as the primary current cuts off, and ramps down to zero V. In continuous mode primary current starts at a voltage above zero V, ramps to full DC voltage, then cuts off. Secondary current starts high as primary current cuts off, and ramps down, stopping at a voltage above zero V, not at zero V.
And the problem with the ZVS driver you mentioned, I'm sure you know well by now, is that the transistors didn't look like they were electrically isolated from each other, on the same heat sink. Separate heat sinks would be best, but if not an option, insulators would be a necessity. The ZVS driver is your best option for using a flyback to power a TC. The ZVS driver turns the ten turn center tapped primary and capacitor(s) into a primary resonant tank. It oscillates at the flyback's resonant frequency and drives the most power through it with great performance. The current output is amazing and adjusting the 47-200 uH inductor to a low value at or close to the 47 uH lower limit, will cause it to output more current than voltage, and for a flyback more current/less voltage is the best for TC work. Getting the flyback output down to 8-10 KV, and up to 10-15 mA or more, would be excellent for a small to medium sized table top TC. Also the 200/500/500 V, IRFP250/260/460 are a must have transistor. People have tried other MOSFETs and pretty much no others perform well, with some not even working at all. So the IRFP250/260/460 are the best and only MOSFETs for the ZVS. If you look for table top SSTC schematics you would see that there isn't a whole lot to them and the components could be purchased for as low as $50. That would give you some impressive arcs. Or check out a VTTC schematic and get an MOT, a 12 V 3 A transformer, some resistors, capacitors, and some vacuum tubes and have as close to as impressive of a TC.
very nice ... thank you ... never ever find engineering at this level ... I have to print and compare to my builds ... yay !
I got shocked by the ballast while it was unplugged, how to I avoid this?
were you shocked by the Ballast or the Flyback? With the ballast make sure its properly grounded to earth ground. there should be three wires to it, earth, neutral, and live. Make sure you're utilize all three. if there is no green (earth ground) you can make one by connecting a wire to the metal casing. make sure you expose bare metal if its painted. If you're getting shocked by the flyback after its unplugged its because there is usually a built in capacitor. to prevent this I always remember to short out ground and the HV line after it has been unplugged before I touch any part of the flyback.
@@corbonzo1 i was shocked by the unplugged ballast, it wasnt ground idk if that makes a difference (it ofc does with real world applications, but I didn't think i had to with the flyback)
I was wondering about those old utility mount ballasts. I assumed they were just a momentary HV ignition which then feeds 60 Hz line voltage and that it was simply current limited 120 via the ballast afterwards. I like ZVS but I have LOTS of flybacks and projects so the ballast tricks are just too convenient to skip. Too bad they are going rapidly extinct along with the flybacks.
Nope, your flyback is a DC flyback, AC flybacks can be found in old TVs.
And the simplest driver I find it to be the one with 1 transistor and 2 resistors, stuff that you can get from the TV you got the flyback from.
Nice video though.
Gordon Freeman I said best and easiest, two qualities mixed, Ive used those drivers as well, they're super easy, but there output is meh. of all the other ways to drive this is the next easiest way, and it has great output. and youre right and wrong about it not being ac. theres three types of flybacks, old full ac ones. ones with diodes so both dc and ac are present, and then the new ones which have hv caps built in, i have the diode one in the video, which has some ac current allowing much more arcing capability.
the video isn't shaky, you just move the camera waaaaay toooo much!!!!!!!!!!!
FOCUS ON WHAT YOU ARE DOING AND EXPLAIN YOURSELF!
You have a DC Flyback, the AC Flyback would hold no charge at all, also I pretty sure because I actually disassembled an identical tv! Your board out of the tv is the same as mine, the Flyback in that tv is a DC Flyback.
if the flyback came off that board, its not an AC flyback. you find AC flybacks in TV's from the 60's and earlier usually. That board you showed was from the 90's i believe (you're making me feel old). Flyback transformersd out of large Sony trinitron tv's like that have really powerful flybacks with nice hot arcs.
I hate you tube safety nannies but be careful with the output of those ballasts because they will shock the piss out of you!! Just use common sense and make all connections/terminations with the power off.
haha thanks! bad thing is the output of this thing is the least of my problems, MOT transformers and NST's are much more dangerous, no worries tho, been doing it for around 6s years without any issues
Oh yeah, one mistake with a unmodified MOT will most likely kill you! Still, their fun to draw arcs from!
Ive been hit too many times to count with ballast voltage in my young,stupid days, most likely you will be ok but they still hurt! The shock actually hurts much more than 120V line voltage, . I wont say the same about 277V used for commercial/industrial power, 277V is something you wont forget,
Yeah that's a good way to power ya flyback mate' I did that some years ago'
But it's a shame you can't get a circuit built mate! Keep trying you will get there in the end' 👍😉 never give up!! 😊
👍👍👍👍👍THUMBS UP👍👍👍👍👍
⚡~High1voltage1rules~⚡
haha yes, i dont plan on giving up anytime soon! thanks!
The Primary should be the two terminals with the least amount of impedance
Those orange Sprague caps on that white board...I would be happy to give them a home if you still had them and wanted to get them out of the way.
Thanks. Exactly what I was looking for.
Glad I could help!
what if i have one of these where you have heating for the filament is there a way to use it
Cool! Thanks for the info I hope it works
The ballast puts out roughly 600v rms at about .6 ma. It’s awsome and quick. Be sure to ground your stuff lol. And plz wear sunglasses if your playin around a lot it does produce a high enough Uv rays to hurt your eyes bud. Nice vid ty for sharing.
I did this once, but minus the oil insulation. (Oops) The ballast burnt out, but the arcs were incredible. I plan on doing this some other time but with oil to prevent burning out the ballast.
yes its definitely a have to haha
Yes please replace this video with something more stable. A video you can actually look at , and you do talk a lot but not saying much. Change it and I would like to watch and share you videos....
Does it need to be a magnetic ballast?
I made one and a CFL circuit powers it but I hook it up to any 3 of my philips advance ballasts and nothing?
Just curious what I'm doing wrong.
I know the ballasts work...
DJ Maxus hmm I’m pretty sure it doesn’t have to be a magnetic ballast but I could be wrong. I’ve heard some ballast won’t power on unless all the leads are connected. Have you tried putting them all in parallel?
@@corbonzo1 so like all red n blue wires together and then the yellows together?
I haven't tried that yet. I did try crossing different wires ect... with not even a spark.
But yet that little cfl works.
@@corbonzo1 so I hooled the blue wires together and then the red together and capped the yellows and get an arc now but its only about half the size as the arc from the cfl ballast. Just doesn't make sense. Is it frequency? I would think a 8 foot t12 ballast would be more powerful than a tiny cfl.
@@perrykaleb6 thats good news! that mean all leads just need to be used. parallel will give less voltage but a higher amperage which is useful for certain applications. now try series. one yellow to flyback. both blues to the other yellow, and then both reds as the other flyback lead. If that works it should give you the optimal HV from your ballast. It has been a long time since I did this project, I recommend writing down every combination of wires from the ballast you can think of and trying each one and record the results. They seem to be pretty hardy and I never fried mine. thats the way I figured out the best setup and a lot of ballasts are set up differently
Even easyer bearing in mind you failed building one, buy a cheap ZVS driver from china. Cheaper than a ballast, cheaper than the bits
Next time solder a wire to the ground from the bottom of the board under the flyback, the board usually says ground and you'll no longer fry your board!
Does anyone know why this works? It seems weird that a ballast can do that...
What would happen with just one of the blues instead of both?
less amperage, so the arc would be less hot
Very cool! Is that the newer electronic kind of ballast?
no its just your common ballast
Ok thanks!
Makerj101 i got mine on amazon, i also hear you get get them at hardware places like home depot
Ya. I'm liking the ZVS driver right now! :)
haha i bet! i think im going to try again, i may have found my issue. i didnt have pads under them! so i think the drains shorted out, what was i thinkin? hahah
I tried that with a smaller ballast. It gave much smaller but hot arcs. The arcs very only half a centimeter...
weekend project is so on. I burned up my first CFL board last night. we had alot of fun though. thank you for your findings.
It worked very well for dc flyback as well, I got up to 2 inch arcs on mine. Also, what is the specs off that ballast, mine burned out awhile ago, and I want to get the same one
this is the exact one i have www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0052VCAVO/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Damn, dude is ON ONE. Did you say "rotarary"?
I have 2 question .. the first is should I protect it with a diode (between the ballast and the flyback)? if so, what kind? My second question is that the capacitor "home made" would do the job?
nothing has happened to my ballast and ive used it alot, so you should be fine without using a diode, what are you using a cap for? the output of the flyback? if so yes, you can
Why won't my ballast output unless there's two lights in it the fixture
hmm not sure, perhaps some protection circuits. you shouldn't have any issues if you combine the wires with the same colors. Id try that
Do you reckon my flyback transformer will last long if I don't cool it someway? you used mineral oil
its a must, i killed 3 of my flybacks almost instantly before figuring out they needed to be in oil. it runs them at pre high freq. and they jump outputs in the bottom, which ends up burning them out. the oil stops that from happening. just go to Walgreens or any place with baby stuff and but a bottle or two of baby oil
Thanks, I wont fire mine up till I got oil
anytime you induce a current in a coil you end up with an ac wave being produced
prototype9000 yes but, most modern flybacks have a build in diode system to convert it to dc
thanks for the vid,good and helpful. I was wondering if the output can be used for electro static plates for ebner effect experiments on plants or will that just make a homemade popcorn maker.
thank you! I've never heard of that, looks like some really interesting stuff. after a quick glance of what it is I'm thinking this kind of power output is too low of voltage and freq. my guess is you need corona and ozone? which this setup doesn't produce much up even right before breakout point. A different driver type would work better i think. the 555 is what comes to mind if you're wanting to stay in the area of flybacks. but i do understand it has to be able to run for a long period of time. getting the right flyback and using this ballast method might work, but you'd have to keep it from full arching, otherwise, yes a popcorn maker XD
great output
what about other oils you could use for the flyback? Could I usr cooking oil?
+Spreedator 1000 hmmm. well i THINK vegitable oil would work, but not well for very long. from experience with saltwater capacitors topped off the vegitable oil as an isulator, its gets moldy very quickly. I would really urge you to just go out and get some baby oil(Mineral oil). its cheap and you can find it at most stores like wallgreens or target
Hey dude, how many kV you get there? and do you know if the system can work steadily??
Unfortunately, I haven't tested it, but it is a lot, at least 6kv, but it depends on the flyback too. it's a very steady reliable output, been using mine for 4 years with no problems
weekend project is so on. I burned up my first CFL board last night. we had alot of fun though. thank you for your findings.
thats how it starts XD i cant remember how many of those i went through hahaha! good luck, let me know if you need help with anything
darth vaper yeah, those cfl circuits are a pain, Ive already gone through 10
Can you make voltage multiplier with this
If you beef it up, pule it with a feedback coil tied to the gate of a mosfet and connect the thing to marx generator. You will need high woltage capacitors. Those you can also make at home with aluminium foil and some plastic sheets
non AC have diode not cap take care
I have read that mineral oil is dangerous because it has a low flash point; if it caught fire it would be difficult to put out and could be dissatrous in a home. Vegetable oil has a much higher flash point. I saw your comments on it going mouldy and absorbinng water, but that container you have looks like it could easily be made air-tight. What do you think?
not sure where you read that... vegetable oil has many impurities and mineral oil is used to insulate transformers on an industrial level. its the standard. If vegetable oil was better, they would be using that because it is cheaper.
I read it on Wikipedia and they are replacing mineral oil because of these concerns. It specifically mentions that it is not suitable to be used indoors.; en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transformer_oil#Mineral_oil_alternatives
wow. thats really interesting. Thankfully at the power levels I work with a flash over is not possible and I always check for leaks, and i make sure there are no contaminates such as water. thanks for showing me that! I guess I just always liked the idea of mineral oil because it does not mold and doesnt smell. But clearly its the better and safer alternative
how many watts that ballast consumes?
Please buy a tripod.
i use my phone so it would be a little difficult, ill try to move around less on my future videos!
corbonzo1 I have successfully used rubber bands to strap my phone to a tripod. Worked well.
Better preparation would eliminate you needing to move around. Have what you want to show in place. Watch the eevblog videos, he shows stuff and does not make you motion sick.
thats a good idea, thanks!
My digital ballast works but it only runs for about 5 seconds and then it shuts itself off, and then I have to wait about a minute after unplugging it before it will switch on again. Any ideas as to how I can keep it running for longer than 5 seconds?
Update: I fixed the 5 second arc thing, but the ballast still tends to switch off if I draw the arc out too far, any ideas?
Self-Trained Professional hmmm, might be a built in safety feature of your ballast, which kind are you using, ive only used the one i have in the video, so i dont know much about them
I'm using an Osram ballast, QT-FIT8 2x58-70
you could try limiting the current with a resistor
hmm, i'll try that, just as soon as i get a new ballast. I burned mine out by putting a little inductor from a CFL circuit in series with the flyback primary. The arcs were amazing though
whats the wattage of the ballast?
whats the wattage of the starter?
I feel dumb asking but what if the ballast doesn't have a common input can I still use it if so how?
what exactly do you mean by common? is it not AC?
@@corbonzo1 the ballast only has a black input wire the 120 common bypasses the ballast and hits both tombstones on one end of the light fixture and the hot line goes to the black wire in ballast which has 2 blue and 1 yellow wires out of one end and 2 red 1 yellow out of the other end I've never seen this configuration with a ballast
@@corbonzo1 and yes its A/C
Saludos de Chile
whats the wattage of the ballast?
Marky Sparky 30-40 w will do the job!
Great Video. Thanks
thanks!
What's the output of the ballast you are using?
not sure, if i can find it ill let you know
this is the exact one i have www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0052VCAVO/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1
The ballast in your video is the "Philips Advance Centium ICN-4P32-N" which is different than the one you are showing from amazon?
ummm nope, its the exact same, the link literally takes you to icn4p32n
You are correct! My error & apology!
tried it, it burned out my ballast in a matter of minutes.
+Roush Hawley really?? what wattage was it? ive ran mine for so long and never had a problem
Corbonzo
40 watt
hmmm thats odd, im no sure why that would have happened, did you have it in oil?
the xformer was in oil... the ballast was not
ya im just talking about that xformer, hmm i have no idea why that would have happened besides maybe some arcing inside the xformer that was hitting the leads to the ballast and frying it
please make Tesla coil
I have! got a few vids of them on my channel, nothing super impressive, but i have bigger things in the future!
Corbonzo thank you .Im making it for my school science project. And trying it to power it with flyback . with a simple spark gap and homemade glass bottle capacitor . If am missing something please help me
Himanshu Attkan yeah that is the general setup, just a heads up though, SGTC are actually way harder to get going then SSTC. less components, but require a ton of math, its so much hit and miss, id highly recommend doing the calculations for your flyback SGTC. save you a lot of time in the long run
Himanshu Attkan but definitely headed the right directing as far as how youre going to power it, just make sure you make a high quality secondary coil, and if you can build a rotatory spark gap. the homemade capacitors work great, JUST BE CAREFUL, they hold a nasty spark just like any cap and are very difficult to discharge, id highly recommend putting them all together in a tub with a top, with outputs coming out. also make a secondary with splits in it so you can easily test different windings, thats why you see a lot of people use copper piping and just a clip lead. This is because all your tunning is going to be in the capacitors and the primary winds since your secondary coil and power supply will be fixed amounts
buddhafollower that's where you're wrong. On a very large scale it can go so many miles. But it's just a fun hobby anyway