For someone like myself, overwhelmed by marketing hype and what is says of what I should like, your mods are the awakening I need. Keep modding. Keep the awesome videos coming.
I sold Klipsch back when the Chorus ll, Forte ll and Quartet were a main part of the line. I remember the Forte lls selling for $1200 a pair. Klipsch claims the crossovers since have been majorly upgraded, thus justifying their drastic price increase. I would be curious to see you tear apart an older and newer one for comparison.
I've only recently started watching this channel, and as someone who has a 20+ year-old Klipsch HT setup (which by today's standards is pretty cheap, but the younger me thought it was quite a bit of cheddar), all of the Klipsch upgrades were quite intriguing. I would like to add a thought - it's extremely easy to get into the weeds and look at all of the statistics and graphs to determine what is good and what isn't. Sure, there are some objective facts, but at the end of the day, not everyone's an audiophile. If speakers sound good to you, that's all that really matters. I've been down the rabbit hole of modifying things to make them better (or at least, what I thought was better), but really, if listening to whatever brand of speakers brings you enjoyment, it's not a bad thing.
I got Klipsch RF-7 I's back in the day and thought they were the bee's knees, then I got JBL Studio 590's which are a 2.5 way. The RF-7's not being a 2.5 way stands out like a sore thumb, and they sound kind of stupid in that department to me now. One thing I would recommend to music lovers is to have 2 different pairs of speakers set up. Neither has to be super expensive, just both of them different. That way you can listen to the music again and have a different perspective and possibly hear things you didn't before, even if the second pair of speakers is much cheaper. Making the speaker position more optimized than it was can be the biggest and cheapest upgrade too. One thing I recommend is to play pink noise and position the speaker so the pink noise is perfectly centered in-between the 2 speakers. Then play out of phase pink noise and make sure the sound is doing a funny thing in both ears the same way. This can very much improve imaging in the sweet spot.
It's not as much about being an audiophile as it is about a poor standard of quality being pumped out at a high price by manufacturers. The average person doesn't know any better, but that doesn't make it right. People can enjoy a poorly tuned speaker with cheesy parts, but that doesn't mean they're being any less ripped off for what they paid. In the end, audiophile or not, you're well able to tell the difference when you hear an A/B demo.
Can you replace the tweeter with a higher end compression drivers that can play to reference levels? 105-125db? That’s what I am looking to do is replace my 8060fa tweeter and crossovers.
Ive owned a few prs of Klipsch, on a budget theyre excellent, mainly because tyhey ahve that play loud feature. Many people dont have "ears", only volume registers, so if they can get loud, things sound better to them, or at least pretty good. I really wanna try Dannys upgrade on some of my old Klipsch bookshelves. One day...
You can feel my K-horns and Belle’s at quarter volume with my old Marantz 2325 it is bar room , live , 24x26 room . It still put goose bumps on my arm after 30 years ! Soft or hard and built like tanks they ROCK ! 😊
@@wwlittlejOfficial mine is old like me but Beautiful and hasn’t been touched. I’m thinking about a re- fresh ! It’s probably time. My cabinet match my walnut speakers. More like beautiful furniture !
the move from true 3 way tweeter mid bass to these quasi 2 way dual woofer no mid leaves holes in the frequency response and hard to get to sound right in most setups had a original rf3 couldn't get to sound right discounted one woofer and man everything sounded so much better but did replace those with a rp5 so much butter speaker now running 5 rb5ii true 2 way as it should be
I have the RF62II and I have always noticed the same thing regarding how hollow the sound is if you are walking around above the e speaker. Once you sit down on the couch all is well in regards to the full sound. But $825...I spent that much on them nearly 10years ago.
@@thebrunoserge You've tried this? I didn't do the Klipsch, but I did do the B&W CDM-1NT upgrade. I had two pair of these speakers (one pair inherited from my late mother). A composer friend of mine and I spent a couple of days doing A-B listening, pushing the buttons on a Yamaha receiver. The non-upgraded B&Ws sounded like a hollow tin can in comparison to the GR upgrade. The upgrade had better imaging, depth of soundstage, and a more "full" sound. One interesting thing we found was running a 32Hz signal. The original just clattered. The upgrade produced the tone cleanly! What was interesting was that this small speaker wasn't even rated to reproduce that frequency. It is possible that Klipsch drivers are such low quality that they can't benefit from premium crossovers, but I doubt that. I'd be curious to see what results you had - please let me know.
@@abboberg What results *I had? LOL if you pay the $800 something dollars + transport or whatever is the ridiculous price (more than the speakers themselves) to upgrade the crossover, then I'll gladly do it. Sorry it's just really funny "wow these $500 speakers are so flawed! If you spend $1000 more on the crossovers alone, they sound a little better!!! Unbelievable"
@@thebrunoserge You said, "And will it be noticeable after room correction? Not really". What do you mean by "not really"? How do you know if you haven't tried it? Manufacturers play this game all the time. They put the cheapest of the cheap components inside, where you can't see them, then you pay thousands more for their "better" stuff. In Klipsch, for example, you will not get GR-Research-level crossover parts until you spend $20K on their Palladium speakers. How do I know this? It's directly from Klipsch. You can literally spend $16K for a new pair of Klipsch MCL-905 and get the garbage crossovers inside. You've got a lot to learn, kid.
Can somebody please bring Danny a Forte 1? I've done a lot of the other upgrades that he did for the 3, with no rez, bracing, wiring, and upgraded with miflex caps, mundorf resistors, and Jantzen air core and foil inductors. All of this has made a huge improvement, buuuut after hearing the magic of doing the GR research upgrade on the RP600M, I know that I am missing the crossover knowledge to take the speaker all the way.
I’ve got K-horns and a pair of the Belles speakers. I replaced the woofer with Eclipse woofers and it has increased the response and help with the bass , it smoothed them out. Plus where they attached to the cabinet I used a rubber ex gasket which backs the paper of the Elcipse from touching the cabinet under a hard listening. I listened for along time sitting between the Belle speakers with one Klipsch and one Eclipse speaker playing and you couldn’t believe how much better the eclipse woofer sounded on those cabinets ! Now I’m thinking I should do my K- horns ?
RF 82 ii pair floor-stand RB 51 ii - bookshelf RS 42 ii surround speakers (2nos) SW 112 subwoofer RC 52 II - center ONKYO TX-NR929 Can anyone inform me please - if this will make a good sound system.. or if there are any issues with any of these speakers - since there upgrades available. Would appreciate early response.
Don’t need to upgrade, pair this speakers with the sansui 5000x and you be happy , bass so low punchy, tweeters is airy and perfect never shouty and amazing. No subwoofer needed insanely warmth sound 😜
Great video Danny! For $825 maybe a better option would be to get a X-LS Encore kit. I wonder how many people purchased Klipsch based on a demo, took them home and found that sound signature to be off-putting after 5 minutes.
The encores wouldn't be a better option to many, simply because the Klipsch put out massive volume for little input,. Danny's mods brings them a little closer to earth tho, and I've been asking Danny to include some before and after sound profiles to get a better sense at what hi mods are doing. But still kilpsch are very efficient, and that probably their best selling point.
Sound is all subjective and personally like klipsch sound signature that could be said with every speaker brand honestly my biggest blunder was the focal konta didn't really liked how they sound more money doesn't always mean more better but I personally enjoy klipsch rp series b&w 700 series kef r series beo lab 28 from b&o focal chora series golden eagle and for sound bars bose samsung and senshiser jbl is my preferred portable speaker and for giant portable would be diamond box xl3
Klipsch sound like Klipsch! Been that way for decades! That is why people buy them. Some small percent are not happy once they get them and reach out to you for help. It's good that you are there.
Danny does the driver cancellation you talk about happen between the two drivers that are the same, or the upper mid and the tweeter in the crossover frequencies?
Driver cancellation happens anytime two drivers are playing the same frequency range and one is delayed in time compared to the other enough to cause a shift in phase.
@@dannyrichie9743 thanks for that. Trying to make sense of my own question. Sometimes it is hard after the fact to remember what the exact point you were trying to make. I think I was trying to determine if it was when two drivers were the same size that caused it, or merely two different drivers that were playing the same frequency. But you have clarified that. The bit I don't quite get my around is why the cancellation is caused by a delay. I would have thought that if two drivers were playing the same frequency they would have cancelled each other out in phase. To give you an example I can get my head around... If you stood on one side of a pool of water and I stood on the other side, and we both dropped equal sized rocks in at the same time, the waves would meet roughly in the middle and cancel each other out. Trying to work out why if you dropped your rock first then me it would cancel any different. Although to be perfectly honest I have never 100% understood phase. Or maybe it means something different to what I think it means.
@@DodgyBrothersEngineering If the two drivers are close together and the time arrival is the same then they couple. It is like dropping two rocks into a pool side by side. The splash is twice what it would be for one.
@@dannyrichie9743 yes of course what was I thinking, what do they say for every extra driver, or doubling them (something like that) you gain something like 3dB. So together they re-enforce each other. OK this leads us to the obvious question, how do you get a shift in phase? The only way I can see that happening is if one driver is a fair bit behind the other, or if you had a large and a smaller driver trying to play the same frequency, and the smaller driver just moves faster because it is pushing less volume of air. Phase shift is something I know zero about.
@@DodgyBrothersEngineering As frequency increases the wavelengths get a lot shorter and it requires much less physical offset to cause cancellation. See this wavelength chart: www.soundoctor.com/freq.htm
I really dont see why whould someone upgrade anything really. I have Klipsch RF 82 stock and last year i've upgraded from diy a-class amp to class D NAD C3050 And woah Bass is much better and much faster The sound image is unreal now, so awesome Details amazing What would i get with crossover upgrade The system is so good that i can compare it to much expensive ones, other people too
Question - to go to a 2.5-way (which makes a lot of sense!) wouldn't it also be important to separate the interior of the cabinet for the two woofers? So they don't interact acoustically?
@@Cblan1224 Well - kinda'? To be a "true" 3-way, the upper woofer would have a highpass portion on it's filter. The upper woofer is doing the midrange, and its backwave (so to speak) will be audible coming out through the lower woofer. The divider would ideally be set up to help tune the two woofers for their overlapping, but different "roles".
I have GR Research upgraded Klipsch speakers and they are shockingly better than stock. And shockingly better than anything under $1000 I have heard. I had a buddy bring over his KEF which I thought were smooth. The GR speakers made the KEF Q350 sound bright and distorted in comparison on most tracks. Worth every penny.
@@dannyrichie9743 I like the idea of this, but you'd also be able to buy a used pair of much better speakers for $825 and not have to do any mods. I would then be comparing the cost and effort vs just buying different speakers.
Look at the big space in-between the top and bottom woofer, yuck! I recall Danny having a RB-62 II and saying the front baffle was resonant prone. Stupid metal woofers that dent. Just no. The way Danny said to position the speakers is what I recently did with my JBL Studio 580's. Those speakers really should have been a 2.5 way too. I'd say buy the 590's which are a 2.5 way and tall enough on their own, or buy the 570's which are not a 2.5 way, but sound like a single woofer anyways due to the small surface area of the 2 woofers. Putting the 580's on stands feels so stupid but ya gotta do it.
I remember buying these speakers for 199 each when frys went out of business. I just wonder how many people would pay for that full re design on a speaker like this. Did you ever play around with different caps on the horn? I found that simple budget clarity PX caps made a fairly audible improvement on the stock tweeter circuit and will only cost a person less than $20 for the pair
I have been lamenting the purchase of RF-82 II's for like 6-7 years. The problem is I bought them on closeout for like $400 total and just have not brought myself to replace them. Now I have to pang over buying the upgrade kit or selling them for an Encore kit. The Klipsch do look nice where they are.
You'll probably take the sound to the level of a $2K pair of speakers, but it does involve some labor to build the circuit boards, which you will probably have to do anyway with an Encore kit. If you like the general sound of the Klipsch, the upgrade kit will take that same character to a whole new level. I was very impressed when I upgraded my old B&W speakers with a GR-Research kit.
There's actually a cheap upgrade for that speaker. If you pull the back plate the crossover is attached. Replace the cap on the tweeter circuit. I tried a few low-cost ones and the clarity PX works really well. Mellows the horn out. Less shrill. You may even try the CSA if you spend a bit more
It makes you wonder how good the crossovers and parts are in the flagship Klipshorns. I think that they have a new flagship now, but the question remains.
There are videos on YT you can find them. Its the same level of parts be it Cornwall IV, LaScala AL5 or KHorn AK6. AFAIK Jubilee has an external active crossover.
Klipsch does things that create a bit of subpar sound, to give a few more Db of sensitivity. They value loudness over everything else, at least to some degree.
Regarding these upgrades? We don't make much on these upgrades, and we do the design work for free. The upgrades are about helping people get the most out of their systems and it is an introduction to the DIY hobby.
@@3184Patrick Even funnier that these expensive mods are all to attempt to *slightly flatten the response curve - but most people will use these with room correction hahahaha so silly
@@3184Patrick Just because someone wants digital room correction doesn't mean it's a "crappy room". This is the assumption they shove down your throat to make money off of your "audiophilia". Don't fall for it. I have a decent room and STILL want room correction to have a true, flat frequency response that compensates for the different interconnected gear. I use it as a reference for mixing sometimes too. YES room correction is used to mix the very music these audiophiles are apparently too fancy to use room correction on. For no reason, it's all just cork sniffing.
I had these speakers. They can play extremely loud and with a little EQ they weren’t too bad but…. It’s really too bad you don’t listen to the speakers because there’s one thing I don’t think new parts or crossover can fix and that is the fatiguing tweeter. If you crank these up, your ears will bleed!
EQ wouldn’t fix this issue. New parts (a crossover) can fix the fatiguing tweeter. The reason it was likely so bad for you was due to the cancellation of all that midrange area - it disappeared and you’re stuck w low lows and high highs.
@@jon1810 I measure in room mulitple times. As he said, if you have your seating in the right position, there is no cancellation. I didn't have any issues with cancellation. I even used the harmon curve and had a -1db/octave tilt. That tweeter was till irritating at any kind of serious volume.
@@NakeanWickliff Even if you sit at the right height to not have a big hole in the response directly, the out of phase issues are still there and present in the overall in room response (or power response).
10 years ago, i listened at the store. the high frequency feel weird. from his graph, a dip at 1k-2k. few months ago, listen to surround speaker(at the store) and high feel smoother.
What does he mean "acoustic center" of woofers? bro the high frequencies are the directional ones WTF lol seriously people this is snake oil. This one guy doesn't know better than all the engineering teams for all the speaker brands
Dumb. Why would you buy a speaker that you may not have auditioned, or bought online blindly. When I’m not happy with the sound of a speaker - I’d just sell it. Then, I try to audition my next pair. Beats sending out get them upgraded 🤔(?)
Why doesn’t this guy just make his own speaker instead of criticising the sound of the speakers he listens to. Everyone has different hearing frequencies.
Well to be direct. you do get quite a bit for 700. You just do not get the small finite details. Not the Heritage a a lot different. I would love to see a break down of those.
is the reason GR see’s many new Klipsch upgrade’s because its the only hifi available locally? BestBuy carrys Klipsch. with no hifi store near by Best buy steals a quick sale
![If you can't hear this then you're not an audiophile [See description for link to followup video]](/img/n.gif)
For someone like myself, overwhelmed by marketing hype and what is says of what I should like, your mods are the awakening I need.
Keep modding. Keep the awesome videos coming.
I have a pair of RF35's sounded tweeter heavy until I got my hands on an AVI lab series amp. Bottom end has warmed up a lot.
I sold Klipsch back when the Chorus ll, Forte ll and Quartet were a main part of the line. I remember the Forte lls selling for $1200 a pair. Klipsch claims the crossovers since have been majorly upgraded, thus justifying their drastic price increase. I would be curious to see you tear apart an older and newer one for comparison.
Great upgrade! Congrats! I wonder, what You'd say about and how'd You improve a RF63 or 83. Those models with 3 mid base range chassis.
I've only recently started watching this channel, and as someone who has a 20+ year-old Klipsch HT setup (which by today's standards is pretty cheap, but the younger me thought it was quite a bit of cheddar), all of the Klipsch upgrades were quite intriguing. I would like to add a thought - it's extremely easy to get into the weeds and look at all of the statistics and graphs to determine what is good and what isn't. Sure, there are some objective facts, but at the end of the day, not everyone's an audiophile. If speakers sound good to you, that's all that really matters. I've been down the rabbit hole of modifying things to make them better (or at least, what I thought was better), but really, if listening to whatever brand of speakers brings you enjoyment, it's not a bad thing.
I got Klipsch RF-7 I's back in the day and thought they were the bee's knees, then I got JBL Studio 590's which are a 2.5 way. The RF-7's not being a 2.5 way stands out like a sore thumb, and they sound kind of stupid in that department to me now. One thing I would recommend to music lovers is to have 2 different pairs of speakers set up. Neither has to be super expensive, just both of them different. That way you can listen to the music again and have a different perspective and possibly hear things you didn't before, even if the second pair of speakers is much cheaper. Making the speaker position more optimized than it was can be the biggest and cheapest upgrade too. One thing I recommend is to play pink noise and position the speaker so the pink noise is perfectly centered in-between the 2 speakers. Then play out of phase pink noise and make sure the sound is doing a funny thing in both ears the same way. This can very much improve imaging in the sweet spot.
It's not as much about being an audiophile as it is about a poor standard of quality being pumped out at a high price by manufacturers. The average person doesn't know any better, but that doesn't make it right. People can enjoy a poorly tuned speaker with cheesy parts, but that doesn't mean they're being any less ripped off for what they paid. In the end, audiophile or not, you're well able to tell the difference when you hear an A/B demo.
@Dean Right - you'd normally have to spend $15K on a pair of speakers to get $900 worth of crossovers inside.
I sold my 82s and bought a pair of the RP - 600M series 2 and are much happier.
How are Monolith THX-465IW speakers compared to Klipsch in-walls?
Hi Danny, would this upgrade kit work for ref IV 82 as well?
Need to do some Definitive SM450's the old ones with the 10" passive radiator, I love them but I know they can be better.
Can you replace the tweeter with a higher end compression drivers that can play to reference levels? 105-125db? That’s what I am looking to do is replace my 8060fa tweeter and crossovers.
Ive owned a few prs of Klipsch, on a budget theyre excellent, mainly because tyhey ahve that play loud feature. Many people dont have "ears", only volume registers, so if they can get loud, things sound better to them, or at least pretty good. I really wanna try Dannys upgrade on some of my old Klipsch bookshelves. One day...
You can feel my K-horns and Belle’s at quarter volume with my old Marantz 2325 it is bar room , live , 24x26 room . It still put goose bumps on my arm after 30 years ! Soft or hard and built like tanks they ROCK ! 😊
@@fabieneldridge3414 brooooo I got a Marantz 2325 too!!! It desperately needs some TLC and a new wood cabinet, but I got her.
@@wwlittlejOfficial mine is old like me but Beautiful and hasn’t been touched. I’m thinking about a re- fresh ! It’s probably time. My cabinet match my walnut speakers. More like beautiful furniture !
I wonder if these crossovers will work with my RF 820?
the move from true 3 way tweeter mid bass to these quasi 2 way dual woofer no mid leaves holes in the frequency response and hard to get to sound right in most setups had a original rf3 couldn't get to sound right discounted one woofer and man everything sounded so much better but did replace those with a rp5 so much butter speaker now running 5 rb5ii true 2 way as it should be
I have the RF62II and I have always noticed the same thing regarding how hollow the sound is if you are walking around above the e
speaker. Once you sit down on the couch all is well in regards to the full sound.
But $825...I spent that much on them nearly 10years ago.
In effect, tho, you'll make them much better than new.
@@abboberg Will he though? And will it be noticeable after room correction? Not really
@@thebrunoserge You've tried this? I didn't do the Klipsch, but I did do the B&W CDM-1NT upgrade. I had two pair of these speakers (one pair inherited from my late mother). A composer friend of mine and I spent a couple of days doing A-B listening, pushing the buttons on a Yamaha receiver. The non-upgraded B&Ws sounded like a hollow tin can in comparison to the GR upgrade. The upgrade had better imaging, depth of soundstage, and a more "full" sound. One interesting thing we found was running a 32Hz signal. The original just clattered. The upgrade produced the tone cleanly! What was interesting was that this small speaker wasn't even rated to reproduce that frequency. It is possible that Klipsch drivers are such low quality that they can't benefit from premium crossovers, but I doubt that. I'd be curious to see what results you had - please let me know.
@@abboberg What results *I had? LOL if you pay the $800 something dollars + transport or whatever is the ridiculous price (more than the speakers themselves) to upgrade the crossover, then I'll gladly do it.
Sorry it's just really funny "wow these $500 speakers are so flawed! If you spend $1000 more on the crossovers alone, they sound a little better!!! Unbelievable"
@@thebrunoserge You said, "And will it be noticeable after room correction? Not really". What do you mean by "not really"? How do you know if you haven't tried it? Manufacturers play this game all the time. They put the cheapest of the cheap components inside, where you can't see them, then you pay thousands more for their "better" stuff. In Klipsch, for example, you will not get GR-Research-level crossover parts until you spend $20K on their Palladium speakers. How do I know this? It's directly from Klipsch. You can literally spend $16K for a new pair of Klipsch MCL-905 and get the garbage crossovers inside. You've got a lot to learn, kid.
Can somebody please bring Danny a Forte 1? I've done a lot of the other upgrades that he did for the 3, with no rez, bracing, wiring, and upgraded with miflex caps, mundorf resistors, and Jantzen air core and foil inductors. All of this has made a huge improvement, buuuut after hearing the magic of doing the GR research upgrade on the RP600M, I know that I am missing the crossover knowledge to take the speaker all the way.
we all got a lot to learn about speakers impedance and their sound quality .
I’ve got K-horns and a pair of the Belles speakers. I replaced the woofer with Eclipse woofers and it has increased the response and help with the bass , it smoothed them out. Plus where they attached to the cabinet I used a rubber ex gasket which backs the paper of the Elcipse from touching the cabinet under a hard listening. I listened for along time sitting between the Belle speakers with one Klipsch and one Eclipse speaker playing and you couldn’t believe how much better the eclipse woofer sounded on those cabinets ! Now I’m thinking I should do my K- horns ?
The drivers and crossovers leave much room for improvement, even with the Heritage models.
@@1mctous you are right !
Some times it pays to try a few different things , to make them sound better.
Please tell us about the Klipsch RF-62 II. Are these good columns? What can be improved about them? Thanks
So far, I have not seen one of their stock models that I can recommend.
RF 82 ii pair floor-stand
RB 51 ii - bookshelf
RS 42 ii surround speakers (2nos)
SW 112 subwoofer
RC 52 II - center
ONKYO TX-NR929
Can anyone inform me please - if this will make a good sound system.. or if there are any issues with any of these speakers - since there upgrades available.
Would appreciate early response.
bEFORE / AFTER SOUND DEMO ?
Don’t need to upgrade, pair this speakers with the sansui 5000x and you be happy , bass so low punchy, tweeters is airy and perfect never shouty and amazing. No subwoofer needed insanely warmth sound 😜
Didn't see this one on the site... just not there yet?
It's on page two of the Klipsch upgrades.
Klipsh needs to start payin ya Danny!
Great video Danny! For $825 maybe a better option would be to get a X-LS Encore kit. I wonder how many people purchased Klipsch based on a demo, took them home and found that sound signature to be off-putting after 5 minutes.
they are horns so you may use low power tube amp with them to get better sound
The encores wouldn't be a better option to many, simply because the Klipsch put out massive volume for little input,. Danny's mods brings them a little closer to earth tho, and I've been asking Danny to include some before and after sound profiles to get a better sense at what hi mods are doing. But still kilpsch are very efficient, and that probably their best selling point.
Sound is all subjective and personally like klipsch sound signature that could be said with every speaker brand honestly my biggest blunder was the focal konta didn't really liked how they sound more money doesn't always mean more better but I personally enjoy klipsch rp series b&w 700 series kef r series beo lab 28 from b&o focal chora series golden eagle and for sound bars bose samsung and senshiser jbl is my preferred portable speaker and for giant portable would be diamond box xl3
Klipsch sound like Klipsch! Been that way for decades! That is why people buy them. Some small percent are not happy once they get them and reach out to you for help. It's good that you are there.
Danny does the driver cancellation you talk about happen between the two drivers that are the same, or the upper mid and the tweeter in the crossover frequencies?
Driver cancellation happens anytime two drivers are playing the same frequency range and one is delayed in time compared to the other enough to cause a shift in phase.
@@dannyrichie9743 thanks for that. Trying to make sense of my own question. Sometimes it is hard after the fact to remember what the exact point you were trying to make. I think I was trying to determine if it was when two drivers were the same size that caused it, or merely two different drivers that were playing the same frequency. But you have clarified that. The bit I don't quite get my around is why the cancellation is caused by a delay. I would have thought that if two drivers were playing the same frequency they would have cancelled each other out in phase. To give you an example I can get my head around... If you stood on one side of a pool of water and I stood on the other side, and we both dropped equal sized rocks in at the same time, the waves would meet roughly in the middle and cancel each other out. Trying to work out why if you dropped your rock first then me it would cancel any different. Although to be perfectly honest I have never 100% understood phase. Or maybe it means something different to what I think it means.
@@DodgyBrothersEngineering If the two drivers are close together and the time arrival is the same then they couple. It is like dropping two rocks into a pool side by side. The splash is twice what it would be for one.
@@dannyrichie9743 yes of course what was I thinking, what do they say for every extra driver, or doubling them (something like that) you gain something like 3dB. So together they re-enforce each other. OK this leads us to the obvious question, how do you get a shift in phase? The only way I can see that happening is if one driver is a fair bit behind the other, or if you had a large and a smaller driver trying to play the same frequency, and the smaller driver just moves faster because it is pushing less volume of air. Phase shift is something I know zero about.
@@DodgyBrothersEngineering As frequency increases the wavelengths get a lot shorter and it requires much less physical offset to cause cancellation. See this wavelength chart: www.soundoctor.com/freq.htm
I really dont see why whould someone upgrade anything really.
I have Klipsch RF 82 stock and last year i've upgraded from diy a-class amp to class D NAD C3050
And woah
Bass is much better and much faster
The sound image is unreal now, so awesome
Details amazing
What would i get with crossover upgrade
The system is so good that i can compare it to much expensive ones, other people too
Question - to go to a 2.5-way (which makes a lot of sense!) wouldn't it also be important to separate the interior of the cabinet for the two woofers? So they don't interact acoustically?
That's why it's 2.5. What you're describing would be a true 3-way
Chris is correct. Down low they are playing together just as before.
@@Cblan1224 Well - kinda'?
To be a "true" 3-way, the upper woofer would have a highpass portion on it's filter.
The upper woofer is doing the midrange, and its backwave (so to speak) will be audible coming out through the lower woofer. The divider would ideally be set up to help tune the two woofers for their overlapping, but different "roles".
@@dannyrichie9743 Understood - and this would keep the same port tuning for both woofers.
@@NeilBlanchard Correct.
I have GR Research upgraded Klipsch speakers and they are shockingly better than stock. And shockingly better than anything under $1000 I have heard. I had a buddy bring over his KEF which I thought were smooth. The GR speakers made the KEF Q350 sound bright and distorted in comparison on most tracks. Worth every penny.
Same here. I did a center channel, will be doing my RF 7 iii’s ASAP.
It's only a matter of time before an overwhelming number of testimonials pour in to drown out the ignorant trolls on here.
Still no love for Polk??
The Reference line seems to be getting a lot of attention the last year.
825 for the kit I only paid $350 FOR THE PAIR. Is it going to make that much of a difference.
It will make that much of a difference.
@@dannyrichie9743 I like the idea of this, but you'd also be able to buy a used pair of much better speakers for $825 and not have to do any mods. I would then be comparing the cost and effort vs just buying different speakers.
@@iSOBigD Good luck. Look inside any speaker in that price range (even used ones) and you will find the same poor quality parts.
Look at the big space in-between the top and bottom woofer, yuck! I recall Danny having a RB-62 II and saying the front baffle was resonant prone. Stupid metal woofers that dent. Just no. The way Danny said to position the speakers is what I recently did with my JBL Studio 580's. Those speakers really should have been a 2.5 way too. I'd say buy the 590's which are a 2.5 way and tall enough on their own, or buy the 570's which are not a 2.5 way, but sound like a single woofer anyways due to the small surface area of the 2 woofers. Putting the 580's on stands feels so stupid but ya gotta do it.
Youthman send his in?
I remember buying these speakers for 199 each when frys went out of business. I just wonder how many people would pay for that full re design on a speaker like this. Did you ever play around with different caps on the horn? I found that simple budget clarity PX caps made a fairly audible improvement on the stock tweeter circuit and will only cost a person less than $20 for the pair
What is a PX cap?
I WOULD LOVE TO SEE AN UPGRADE OF THE KLIPSCH RF7 ORINAL MODEL. ANYONE FOR THE TASK???
Same, I'd send mine in but I'm in Canada. someone who lives down southern states drop off your RF7mk1 please!
I have been lamenting the purchase of RF-82 II's for like 6-7 years. The problem is I bought them on closeout for like $400 total and just have not brought myself to replace them. Now I have to pang over buying the upgrade kit or selling them for an Encore kit. The Klipsch do look nice where they are.
You'll probably take the sound to the level of a $2K pair of speakers, but it does involve some labor to build the circuit boards, which you will probably have to do anyway with an Encore kit. If you like the general sound of the Klipsch, the upgrade kit will take that same character to a whole new level. I was very impressed when I upgraded my old B&W speakers with a GR-Research kit.
There's actually a cheap upgrade for that speaker. If you pull the back plate the crossover is attached. Replace the cap on the tweeter circuit. I tried a few low-cost ones and the clarity PX works really well. Mellows the horn out. Less shrill. You may even try the CSA if you spend a bit more
It makes you wonder how good the crossovers and parts are in the flagship Klipshorns. I think that they have a new flagship now, but the question remains.
About the same.
There are videos on YT you can find them. Its the same level of parts be it Cornwall IV, LaScala AL5 or KHorn AK6. AFAIK Jubilee has an external active crossover.
Yeah Skyfi Audio did a teardown on the Heresy, and Forte, they had sand cast resistors, iron core inductors and some poly caps.
If you check out Skyfi Audio they have a teardown on Forte 12:25, and it's not good for $5k: th-cam.com/video/vnED-DtH7dI/w-d-xo.html
@@arfer1470 des.160volt poly.🤪🤪👍🇩🇪
Klipsch may have been trying to maximise efficiency, you've lost about 5db over the range flattening things out, as you noted.
Nah. They were lazy.
Efficiency isn't much without linearity.
Klipsch overstate their efficiency by alot
Klipsch does things that create a bit of subpar sound, to give a few more Db of sensitivity. They value loudness over everything else, at least to some degree.
@@jon1810 all speaker designers are lazy?
Klipsch is selling lots of speakers.. ? 🤔
When you market subpar engineered and mass manufactured “Audiophile” speakers as cheap as they do, of course they would.
😳
I still think it's all about the money...
Regarding these upgrades? We don't make much on these upgrades, and we do the design work for free. The upgrades are about helping people get the most out of their systems and it is an introduction to the DIY hobby.
For Klipsch - yes.
I own the 8000s lol and wish I watched this before I bought them lol. Time for upgrades.
Why waste your money
Which 8000s?
@@robertspringer9477 first
I think the 8000F ll is a little more refined.
Lol $825 for the upgrade kit? where is the parts list I don't believe they cost even half of that
try pricing out quality parts online. just one sonicap can run hundreds of dollars by itself.
@@3184Patrick a soni what?
@@3184Patrick Even funnier that these expensive mods are all to attempt to *slightly flatten the response curve - but most people will use these with room correction hahahaha so silly
@@thebrunoserge yeah no point doing it with a cheap receiver and crappy room. but with the right equipment and space it makes a difference.
@@3184Patrick Just because someone wants digital room correction doesn't mean it's a "crappy room". This is the assumption they shove down your throat to make money off of your "audiophilia". Don't fall for it. I have a decent room and STILL want room correction to have a true, flat frequency response that compensates for the different interconnected gear. I use it as a reference for mixing sometimes too. YES room correction is used to mix the very music these audiophiles are apparently too fancy to use room correction on. For no reason, it's all just cork sniffing.
Not another klipsch, man… 😂
I know....
I had these speakers. They can play extremely loud and with a little EQ they weren’t too bad but…. It’s really too bad you don’t listen to the speakers because there’s one thing I don’t think new parts or crossover can fix and that is the fatiguing tweeter. If you crank these up, your ears will bleed!
EQ wouldn’t fix this issue. New parts (a crossover) can fix the fatiguing tweeter. The reason it was likely so bad for you was due to the cancellation of all that midrange area - it disappeared and you’re stuck w low lows and high highs.
@@jon1810 I measure in room mulitple times. As he said, if you have your seating in the right position, there is no cancellation. I didn't have any issues with cancellation. I even used the harmon curve and had a -1db/octave tilt. That tweeter was till irritating at any kind of serious volume.
@@NakeanWickliff Even if you sit at the right height to not have a big hole in the response directly, the out of phase issues are still there and present in the overall in room response (or power response).
10 years ago, i listened at the store. the high frequency feel weird. from his graph, a dip at 1k-2k.
few months ago, listen to surround speaker(at the store) and high feel smoother.
😂😂😂😂
It will still sound like poop after fixing it's FR. Because its a Klipsch.
What does he mean "acoustic center" of woofers? bro the high frequencies are the directional ones WTF lol seriously people this is snake oil. This one guy doesn't know better than all the engineering teams for all the speaker brands
Dumb. Why would you buy a speaker that you may not have auditioned, or bought online blindly. When I’m not happy with the sound of a speaker - I’d just sell it. Then, I try to audition my next pair. Beats sending out get them upgraded 🤔(?)
Why doesn’t this guy just make his own speaker instead of criticising the sound of the speakers he listens to. Everyone has different hearing frequencies.
funny.
He does, are you not paying attention?
Are you serious? First time here, huh?
His kit fixed my B&W CDM-1NT. The crossovers were quite cheesy in these "made with pride" British speakers.
Really? 700€/pair. New in germany. And 850$ for a crossover speaker Update. Whats going wrong with klipsch?
Well to be direct. you do get quite a bit for 700. You just do not get the small finite details.
Not the Heritage a a lot different. I would love to see a break down of those.
What's going on with GR Research? is the real question lol
is the reason GR see’s many new Klipsch upgrade’s because its the only hifi available locally? BestBuy carrys Klipsch. with no hifi store near by Best buy steals a quick sale
We don't buy the models that we upgrade. They are sent in by our customers and they come from all over the country.
And don't forget Costco.