@@stargatismy grandmother's sister saved puppy and raised him. After her early death in 1945 he found her grave and died there. All family was touched
IF is the operative word. There is no hard evidence for any of these examples, except some Neanderthal sites. Neanderthals were much closer to us than Homo Naledi.
I had an MRI (?) done a while back. They put me on a tray and slid me into a tube. I had a mild tranquilizer beforehand but I was still VERY uncomfortable even though that tube was relatively spacious and well lit in comparison to the midnight spaces those covers crawled through.
I greatly believe the reason hominids started to "bury" or "conceal" their deceased is to avoid scavenging by other animals. Therefore, where they found Leti suggest even the rest were placed deliberately in those hard to reach natural chambers.
Bingo,, if you are prey to another animal, the last thing you want is raw meat hanging around, even if it is your relative..It would endanger the tribe or clan..
imagine using strong scents even to mask the rotting corpse. Assumed caves were used as temporary shelters by predators and hominids culturs may have developped by making a home for as long as needed. While that might have been a start there still remains the transition from practical to spiritual ritual.
In many cases in could be it but i feel like in this particular one it's highly unlikely because going into such a cave would probably be dangerous to the group because of cave layout, lack of sunlight and more
In almost all cave depositions by flooding there is a wide range of material including plant and animal fragments. The fact that there are only small mammal bones with the Naledi strongly supports that no flood deposition occurred.
The doc is BS. Did you see where they lowered his fat ass through this 8" opening and he made the find of the writing. That was straight bullshit. If any of it's bull shit , you have to wonder about everything.
It's crazy to think just how many finds like this are still out there in the world. Not to mention what has already been found that is not classified yet or forgotten about.
just think of the amount of caves or buried bones that straight up get destroyed because of construction work or natural causes such as earthquakes. Or all the caves and former living places, that are now sunken in the ocean like doggerland ect.
Or, and not to sound conspiratorial, but sites and specimens that were literally bulldozed, blown up or built on, or hidden for someone's quick buck. Because lets face it, all the bogus and outlandish conspiracies are really just there to make the actual conspiracies seem crackers too
I remember seeing the first articles about the Rising Star Cave discovery on BBC news years ago. It's amazing that there are still revelations coming from it today.
Yes! Glad to see a return to this material. Can't wait for part 2. The implications here are staggering... is human consciousness a basal trait in many hominims? Or is this parellel evolution? And if it is parallel evolution, then does that mean that burial practices are the direct result of evolutionary pressures or is it a part of truly emergent culture? And if it IS emergent, then how does it emerge in a species so different from our own??? Really just so cool.
Don't go apeshit over all the speculation of "wow, they were so advanced" quite yet. The peer-review has some valid criticisms... th-cam.com/video/gGsDAtCOAFw/w-d-xo.html
It doesn't appear that the species IS that different to ours, though. More basal, sure. But not too different. It wasn't a predatory bear, it wasn't a flying animal, it wasn't a burrowing mammal, for a few examples. It was an upright hominin, almost certainly a hominid that was very closely related to our own lineage.
This video was riveting! I got my BA in Anthropology more than 50 years ago, and have retained a strong interest in human evolution ever since. The idea that the brain structure despite the small volume can permit more complex thought patterns is fascinating. I will enjoy Part 2 very much. Thank you!!
Something I have wondered regarding brain size equals intelligence.... There are modern humans with brain size even smaller or similar to Homo Naledi such as primordial dwarfism and they do just fine in society. Has this been considered? This discovery is Amazing!!!! I really enjoy your video's. Rock on!!!
Don't wanna get too dark, but about Leti... Two weeks ago I went to a project site where we visited a village and were hosted by the village elder (not the chief, just literally the oldest man in the village). He was talking proudly about how he had been the chief organizer in the latest expansion of the village church. So I asked him if he felt the church had contributed to the betterment of their lives. He was happy to oblige and said, of course! For example, we have normal burials now! We no longer use the ancient family tombs that had to be opened up and maintained every few years. I was a bit disappointed by this answer and asked him why he would think this a good thing. So he explained... "Well, see, they built these tombs out of ironwood. First they dug a big chamber out of the ground, then they planted the pillars, then raised the roof, then slowly reburied it with soil, raising a mound. Very expensive, very hard to make." "Er, so it's bad because it's expensive?" "That too, but they after finishing one they had to build the gates. That's the hard part." "The gates are hard to build?" "No, no, no. To build the gates, first you raised a party of the strongest, toughest men." "O...K..." "Then the men rowed downstream to the bigger village there." "Oh, the gates were imported?" "No, no, no, no. Different tribe. You don't raid the same tribe, so the men would raid the village there because they're a different tribe, get a boy, a STRONG boy, and drag him back upstream." "Ohhh...." "Then they'd attach the gates to the structure. The boy they brought inside. They cut off his head, then crushed his skull behind the gate's right side pillar. This made the pillars strong and kept the structure from collapsing. Then they buried the crushed head deeper inside. Problem was, you had to do this every time the gates needed renovation. The last raid was when my grandpa was a child. Then missionaries came. So, normal burial is better, yes?" "Oh... um... yes! Definitely!" "See..."
The fact that they existed and likely had contact with homo sapiens and other hominids makes me not very surprised that they placed their recently departed in a very hard to access area. Or perhaps the older, weaker of the group went into the cave to die? I only suggest this as many animals are known to behave like this.
If there were other entrances that have since closed, I would expect the geologists studying the cave deposits would have found collapse breccias, roof falls or other evidence of major modification of the caves since the fossils were emplaced
It's amazing to see how far back the origins of culture truly go, especially funerary rituals and beliefs. I have a degree in cultural anthropology so this is my wheelhouse so to speak. It's fascinating and amazing to see that funerary practices developed so early in hominid development.
Recently came across David Gerber and some Prof from Oxford who combines anthropology and archeology. Wow. Changed my view of how material culture affects thought and vice versa.
"grief is love with nowhere to go" I imagine that protecting the dead body of their loved ones from predators was a final act of love. It doesn't really surprise me that they were capable of feeling that way but I'm in awe that they felt the need to act on those feelings.
@@chubbydinosaur9148it may not be correct, they may have went to the cave to eat their dead in peace from predators. Chimpanzees, gorillas do commonly chew their dead. And dyk that aghari tribe in India eat dead human flesh? It's still being done today.
I wonder if burial came about as a means to get rid of bodies, thus making sure the tribe avoids disease and predators attracted to the rotting flesh. Burial can take many forms, but we're usually reffering to covering the deceased in a thick layer of dirt/and/or/stone, both protecting the body and making sure most of the stench doesn't permeate out into the environment, which is a good thing since humans don't like the smell of death either, which allowed members of the group to remember their dead and feel a direct connection with them without having to gaze upon what was left of them, you probably don't wanna see what was inside of grandma every time you visit her grave.
I feel like that reinforced the idea, but there is also a second factor. If you're not a nomad species, it is not fun to see your loved ones rotting and being dragged by vultures and other animals after they're gone. It is not fun to be hunting or looking for berries and having to look at your mom's rotting corpse hanging out on the nearby rock.
@@enkiimuto1041 Yep, a big factor at play here. We see a trend regarding intelligence and emotions when we're looking at life(mammals at least), the more intelligent an animal becomes, the more nonsensical and extreme its behaviour becomes in terms of emotions. For example, elephants can be very caring and are known to remember their dead and even have 'rituals' regarding them, however, they can still feel extreme hate and they often express it in very violent outbursts. Same as whales, look at Moby Dick for an example(yes, the book was based on a real whale), a whale that went crazy after whalers fucked with either it or its family, another example would be Porphyrios, a presumed sperm whale that terrorised the Holy Roman Empire, we still have no fucking idea why it was so far inland but nonetheless it wasn't mentally stable at all, as it sunk dozens if not hundreds of vessels. Ahem, I don't know where this went but anyway, summed up, the more intelligent an animal becomes, the 'stupider' it is in turn, as it starts 'believing' in stuff that's not true like made up concepts, we for example see meaning where there is not, when a less than blessed animal looks at a corpse it just sees a corpse, an ant doesn't feel emotion, it doesn't feel a need to remember individuals within the colony, but when a human sees a corpse, be it human or not, we see a reminder of life and death, something that most animals don't even understand, because they do not know they will die. We hate and love death at the same time, the greatest enemy and most powerful ally of humanity, we are captivated and horrified by it, but life doesn't care if you're afraid of death or not, all it cares about is if you spread your genes, that's it, it doesn't care if you want there to be an afterlife, you're just a pawn to be used and then thrown away, to explode into energy and then crumble to dust. "It is sometimes and appropriate response to reality to go insane", to feel anger towards it is useless, what good does it do to scream into an abyss? Wow I gotta take my meds.
@@julianshepherd2038 Kinda hard to carry a body for long distances while watching out for predators, while humans werr extremely nomadic, we still gravitated towards favorable areas for shelter, food, etc, caves are a good example, the last thing you wanna do in the wild is abandon your shelter if you don't know where tf you are going, don't let go of the sparrow in your hand for the crow on the fence.
@@dud3655I don’t read comments when they’re this long usually but this was worth it✅interesting. That violence that comes through to defend love, that thing were all trying to get back to, but we keep taking eyes instead. We aren’t done with war. We aren’t nearing oneness, we’re still only hate OR love, good OR bad. We will keep doing this until ?
The peer reviews of the Berger study were eye opening and in some cases brutal. Not a single one of the peer reviewers agreed with the assertions made about burials without much further study being done. Gutsick Gibbon has a great video going over the peer reviews.
Yes, brutal is a fairly gentle word for them. 😂 They basically say Berger needed to do a WHOLE bunch more tests before deciding what actually went on in the cave. Which, yeah, he did skip a lot, I think because he badly wants this all to be true, and let it blind him to the slow and methodical steps needed in science.
Thank you for this presentation. I look forward with great anticipation, for part 2. I keep thinking of things to say, questions to ask, but I don't, mostly because I don't have any degrees in this field, only a lot of reading and study. Please keep presenting these fascinating videos.
Don’t let degrees hold you back from expressing questions you may have. The question/thought alone may often be unique in itself that it helps professionals see a connection or rethink any current theories or models.
@@serenity6281 Okay, here it is. I find myself wondering what kind of egocentrism makes H. sapiens feel that "we" could ever be the only creatures who routinely and ritually disposed of our dead.
@@CZPanthyr probably because for the longest time we are the only species doing so, of course there are creatures like the elephants who were known to visit the skeleton of their dead relatives, but for the longest time it is understand that only we do this ritualistic burial and another thing is that fossils rarely preserve behavior, so finding such evidence for a thing that were usually attributed to our species in an older and more "ancient" lineage of humans are quite surprising at least
One question raised by the extremely tempting assumption that the bodies were intentionally placed in the cave is 'what happened to the other Naledi bodies?'. Presumably the species lived in the area for at least hundreds, and probably thousands, of years - even if their population was never large that is still a lot of bodies. Quite a few would be victims of predators, and a number would also have died too far away to be carried all the way to the cave...but....where are the others? Alternatively, if the bodies in the cave were 'special' somehow - how?
I recall the Eons podcast mentioning there are signs of habitants on other caves, but never this one. Tool use and other things from likely other hominid species, but that one seems to be deemed not good to live, adding intent to when they did enter it.
@@thekaxmax - Perhaps there were other tomb chambers where more bodies were interred, but have since been closed off by geological forces. Any way you look at it, the Naledi must have REALLY wanted those bodies to be placed where they were - can you imagine doing the "Superman crawl" section while trying to bring the weight of a dead fellow Naledi with you? They must have been a very athletic people.
This is a truly amazing set of finds in Rising Star Cave! Some really interesting finds, and many years of science ahead to be able to better understand these finds. Before anyone gets horribly excited about this cave system's finds, realize that Berger skipped a bunch of work that needed to be done before he put his newest paper up for peer review to be published. The peer review answers to the newest paper, well, let's just say that brutal is a fairly gentle word for them. 😂 Gutsick Gibbon (Erika has a great channel!) covered the responses to his paper in some depth. They basically say Berger needed to do a WHOLE bunch more tests before deciding what actually went on in the cave. Which, yeah, he did skip a lot, I think because he badly wants this all to be true, and let it blind him to the slow and methodical steps needed in science that he just ... ignored. That's not to say his opinions are wrong. It just means that he seems to have jumped to waaaay too many conclusions for his paper to be accepted for publication yet. I will be very interested to see what science comes out of that cave in the next decade or two!
Hi Ben, could it be that the bodies were placed higher up the cave until there was a large amount of bones that when they came to place another new dead Neladi corpse they simply moved the remaining bones further down the cave system as this would explain the snail mark's and the mix up of bones in the lower Chamber?
Well done. I’d like to point out that the comments the reviewers gave on the publications in eLife are publically available. No one even mentions brain size, which Berger seems to use as an argument to call critics ‘speciists’ or something, but they all conclude that, as you said, Berger et al. fail to disprove any null hypotheses.
I was passionately in favor of Berger's work until I found out about how he treated the peer review process. Now I suspect that he's done more damage to the peer review process than any of his discoveries can justify.
@@ArjanKop I'm sorry, Berger deserves a lot of the blame here, the response to the reviews was a standard form letter not really addressing individual criticisms --- Berger et al chose eLife because they couldn't get published in other journals.
@@charoleawood that’s true. It’s a shame, really, because even without all the wishful thinking and roaring news items, a cave full of pretty much intact early hominin fossils is exciting enough as it is.
Great stuff Ben! Love the channel and the amazing videos you and the crew produce! Way too cool! Also pretty awesome that you guys got to go to these sites. Ngl, I'm a little jelly. 😆I wanted to be a paleontologist so bad but sadly my health and body decided to rebel against me. ❤But, this way I can live vicariously through you younglings. 😆Keep up the great work guys! From Dave in Alaska! ❤
This was a great video, very informative and a concise and detailed summary of this discovery in a clear and unbiased, well structured presentation... Nice! Can't wait for Part 2 👍🏼👍🏼
I was born in SA and back in the 90s i remember asking some bushmen if they believe in an afterlife. they where confused and didnt understand the question. so I rephrased it like this. What do you do with your dead? they answered "Oh we just put them in a cave and then leave the area". I understand the bushmen have nothing to do with naledi but i can see how this is just a logical thing to do.
My favourite arkeological investigation. Thanks for the updates 👍 I am surprised that their is any controversy as to Werther they where intentionally buried. My understanding is that prof Berger's team claim not gust that they had been taken to these chambers, but that they have evidence for the pits that had been dug to place them in. I expect some day Prof. Berger will win a Nobel Prize I certainly think he deserves one, especially if the implications prove to be half as paradme shifting as they apear to be.
I really enjoyed this longer-form content. I know it's probably not for everyone, and probably takes a hell of a lot of work, but it's interesting and refreshing to hear about the back and forth of papers refuting each other and generally engaging in the scientific method, rather than just hearing the most sensational paper with no arguments. I'm not a scientist by any metric but I love me some thorough discourse and reasoning, and I would never seek this stuff out on my own, despite my interest in archaeological anthropology.
Thank you to you too for this thoughtful and detailed examination of evidence and fresh eyes on an extremely exciting discovery. I look forward to the next chapter in your work. These discoveries have made waves because they call into question so many sacred cows in our search for the whole story of us (most of which are pure imagination anyway) without the requisite secrecy between only a few old men across many decades. One of the most important findings relative to Homo Naledi is the concept of bringing in “fresh eyes” and daylight to sites and theories that are stale and fossilized themselves.
Great video and great breakdown of so many animals. I love imagining what life must have been like back then, but I'm also happy we're only able to imagine it 😆
This is an incredible, and exciting, story. I saw Berger's documentary and it was fascinating, although I was left with a number of questions, including the subject of genetic testing on the remains, whether the remains have been shared with labs in Europe, the US, and elsewhere for analysis, whether experts in the field have been invited to participate in this dig, and others. I know that paleontologists and anthropologists are incredibly jealous of their finds, Richard Leakey among them, which is a flaw in the system, but I would like to see others bring their knowledge and experience to bear on this amazing discovery. Thanks, Ben, for the video and I am looking forward to the next exciting episode!
Thanks for the update. I initially liked the Netflix documentary, but after learning about the negative peer reviews of the paper I wish I'd never seen it. It was way too biased, only showing how confidant the researchers were in their theories and made it feel as if everything was settled. Not the language they used, but as someone who never heard of this it felt that way. Now I'm having to back-track and explain to people I told about the burials how none of that has been proven yet. Embarrassing.
The one problem I have with just dropping them down a chute would be that they would land in the same area and pile up. Deliberate burial and mourning for sure, ritualistic is within the realm of possibilities. I can’t see a group of ancient people taking another group of deceased people deep into a hard to access cave to dispose or bury them. It’s a difficult journey with modern tools.
13:04 scared the heck out of me lol I was listening to this video and not watching it as I cook, only to turn and see this image. Needless to say, I was shocked.
I anthropomorphize my dog because she’s so important to me. I so want to believe that this species had higher level development and socialization that included bonding and grief. Because they would be that much cuter! Come on, you didn’t think those drawing renditions weren’t cute?! Didn’t you just wanna bring one home?! But I think they really did have emotional connections and engaged in taking the bodies of their dead loved ones into a protected place.
This is the first time I have watched your videos and I am Hooked! Well Done! Whenever you wonder whether the time and energy that you spend matters, come back to these words of encouragement. You take very complex things and break them down so everyone can share. What a great gift you and your team have. I am actually a Medieval Historian who has been to Africa six times and own a number of Neanderthal and early Sapiens artifacts. Obviously, I have a love for anthropology as well! I was visiting JBurg when the announcement of this discovery was made. It was so new, I didn't have a chance to break away from teaching before I had to come back to the States. How cool would it have been to be an eyewitness to the most important anthropological find in the past 50 years! I met Dr. Berger in Dallas when he brought Naledi on a visiting exhibit. I wonder what you think of Homo-Longi! Are they a fourth branch amongst ourselves, Sapiens, Denisovans, and Neanderthals?
A smaller-sized brain does not necessarily mean un-smart. There are plenty of Sapiens alive today with smaller brains, but who can function just as well as anybody else. It is the complexity of the brain that counts, the number of synaptic connections and folds, and the quality of curiosity and desire to learn.
If crows, elephants, and neanderthals have/had death rituals, I see no reason that naledi couldn't.
Even dogs are said to miss their owners after death❤elephant stories of grief are amazing
@@stargatismy grandmother's sister saved puppy and raised him. After her early death in 1945 he found her grave and died there. All family was touched
IF is the operative word. There is no hard evidence for any of these examples, except some Neanderthal sites. Neanderthals were much closer to us than Homo Naledi.
@@olabaskerville in what year the puppy die ?
@@lovingputu5916 around month after his owner's death (after her funeral he disappeared). He was adult dog at that time
I get claustrophobic just thinking about this discovery and I normally don’t have a problem with small spaces. These women must have nerves of steel!
👊 Right On !!! 👍
Women rule!!
I had an MRI (?) done a while back. They put me on a tray and slid me into a tube. I had a mild tranquilizer beforehand but I was still VERY uncomfortable even though that tube was relatively spacious and well lit in comparison to the midnight spaces those covers crawled through.
@@jessestreet2549 cavers, from the word cave!
@@merjamikkonen4991 thank spell/word correct. It changes what I type sometimes
I greatly believe the reason hominids started to "bury" or "conceal" their deceased is to avoid scavenging by other animals. Therefore, where they found Leti suggest even the rest were placed deliberately in those hard to reach natural chambers.
Bingo,, if you are prey to another animal, the last thing you want is raw meat hanging around, even if it is your relative..It would endanger the tribe or clan..
That was my original thought too, rather than symbolism or ritual of afterlife. Still quite fascinating.
imagine using strong scents even to mask the rotting corpse.
Assumed caves were used as temporary shelters by predators and hominids culturs may have developped by making a home for as long as needed.
While that might have been a start there still remains the transition from practical to spiritual ritual.
Still amazing because they must have used fire to find their way. Complete darkness. They did find soot and hearths. So these naledi guys were smart.
In many cases in could be it but i feel like in this particular one it's highly unlikely because going into such a cave would probably be dangerous to the group because of cave layout, lack of sunlight and more
In almost all cave depositions by flooding there is a wide range of material including plant and animal fragments. The fact that there are only small mammal bones with the Naledi strongly supports that no flood deposition occurred.
lolololol@repentandbelieveinJesusChrist8
@repentandbelieveinJesusChrist8 I don't join cults!
@repentandbelieveinJesusChrist8 and don't eat yellow snow.
I would like to look of the diversity of the small bones as larger carcasses are very unlikely to make it down those small tunnels
@@FreeSpeechXtremistfrom what I've heard there were very few other species bones in the chambers where the Naledi were found.
The 'Unknown: Cave Of Bones' documentary is fantastic! I'm so glad you're covering this!
lols
@repentandbelieveinJesusChrist8 Shut the hell up.
The doc is BS. Did you see where they lowered his fat ass through this 8" opening and he made the find of the writing. That was straight bullshit. If any of it's bull shit , you have to wonder about everything.
@repentandbelieveinJesusChrist8 God answers prayers of crippled boy. "No" says God
It's crazy to think just how many finds like this are still out there in the world. Not to mention what has already been found that is not classified yet or forgotten about.
just think of the amount of caves or buried bones that straight up get destroyed because of construction work or natural causes such as earthquakes. Or all the caves and former living places, that are now sunken in the ocean like doggerland ect.
not to mention the nephilim bones hidden in the Smithsonian archives!
😆 sorry...I just couldn't resist
@@john-ic5pz 😂
Or, and not to sound conspiratorial, but sites and specimens that were literally bulldozed, blown up or built on, or hidden for someone's quick buck. Because lets face it, all the bogus and outlandish conspiracies are really just there to make the actual conspiracies seem crackers too
@@john-ic5pzlol
I remember seeing the first articles about the Rising Star Cave discovery on BBC news years ago. It's amazing that there are still revelations coming from it today.
You have been killing it with these videos Ben! I really appreciate how you lay out the hypothesis/the counter/and criticisms. That is true science.
Yes! Glad to see a return to this material. Can't wait for part 2. The implications here are staggering... is human consciousness a basal trait in many hominims? Or is this parellel evolution? And if it is parallel evolution, then does that mean that burial practices are the direct result of evolutionary pressures or is it a part of truly emergent culture? And if it IS emergent, then how does it emerge in a species so different from our own??? Really just so cool.
Don't go apeshit over all the speculation of "wow, they were so advanced" quite yet. The peer-review has some valid criticisms...
th-cam.com/video/gGsDAtCOAFw/w-d-xo.html
It doesn't appear that the species IS that different to ours, though. More basal, sure. But not too different. It wasn't a predatory bear, it wasn't a flying animal, it wasn't a burrowing mammal, for a few examples. It was an upright hominin, almost certainly a hominid that was very closely related to our own lineage.
This video was riveting! I got my BA in Anthropology more than 50 years ago, and have retained a strong interest in human evolution ever since. The idea that the brain structure despite the small volume can permit more complex thought patterns is fascinating. I will enjoy Part 2 very much. Thank you!!
Something I have wondered regarding brain size equals intelligence.... There are modern humans with brain size even smaller or similar to Homo Naledi such as primordial dwarfism and they do just fine in society. Has this been considered? This discovery is Amazing!!!! I really enjoy your video's. Rock on!!!
I was taught that it is not the size of the brain, but its anatomy that determines intelligence.
Don't wanna get too dark, but about Leti...
Two weeks ago I went to a project site where we visited a village and were hosted by the village elder (not the chief, just literally the oldest man in the village). He was talking proudly about how he had been the chief organizer in the latest expansion of the village church. So I asked him if he felt the church had contributed to the betterment of their lives. He was happy to oblige and said, of course! For example, we have normal burials now! We no longer use the ancient family tombs that had to be opened up and maintained every few years. I was a bit disappointed by this answer and asked him why he would think this a good thing. So he explained...
"Well, see, they built these tombs out of ironwood. First they dug a big chamber out of the ground, then they planted the pillars, then raised the roof, then slowly reburied it with soil, raising a mound. Very expensive, very hard to make."
"Er, so it's bad because it's expensive?"
"That too, but they after finishing one they had to build the gates. That's the hard part."
"The gates are hard to build?"
"No, no, no. To build the gates, first you raised a party of the strongest, toughest men."
"O...K..."
"Then the men rowed downstream to the bigger village there."
"Oh, the gates were imported?"
"No, no, no, no. Different tribe. You don't raid the same tribe, so the men would raid the village there because they're a different tribe, get a boy, a STRONG boy, and drag him back upstream."
"Ohhh...."
"Then they'd attach the gates to the structure. The boy they brought inside. They cut off his head, then crushed his skull behind the gate's right side pillar. This made the pillars strong and kept the structure from collapsing. Then they buried the crushed head deeper inside. Problem was, you had to do this every time the gates needed renovation. The last raid was when my grandpa was a child. Then missionaries came. So, normal burial is better, yes?"
"Oh... um... yes! Definitely!"
"See..."
First time I'm actually glad for the missionaries lmao
Omg hahah....
Hilarious, first time I've been even slightly relieved hearing about missionaries😂
Geeeze
I feel like the same result could be achieved using the skull of a large animal, like a wild pig or such.
We need a part two episode now!! Please this is so fascinating
The fact that they existed and likely had contact with homo sapiens and other hominids makes me not very surprised that they placed their recently departed in a very hard to access area. Or perhaps the older, weaker of the group went into the cave to die? I only suggest this as many animals are known to behave like this.
Ben never disappoints us
Speak for yourself
I mean, he could use the metric system when talking about their heights =/
@@enkiimuto1041 I mean, you could stop commenting for a while.
@@enkiimuto1041Google it and learn.
Absolutely! Love your videos Ben! You guys rock!
If there were other entrances that have since closed, I would expect the geologists studying the cave deposits would have found collapse breccias, roof falls or other evidence of major modification of the caves since the fossils were emplaced
Just awesome. This is great research, and well presented. I look forward to your long career in this field.
Wow, what a fantastic experience. Thank you so much for sharing this with us
It's amazing to see how far back the origins of culture truly go, especially funerary rituals and beliefs. I have a degree in cultural anthropology so this is my wheelhouse so to speak. It's fascinating and amazing to see that funerary practices developed so early in hominid development.
Recently came across David Gerber and some Prof from Oxford who combines anthropology and archeology. Wow. Changed my view of how material culture affects thought and vice versa.
"grief is love with nowhere to go" I imagine that protecting the dead body of their loved ones from predators was a final act of love.
It doesn't really surprise me that they were capable of feeling that way but I'm in awe that they felt the need to act on those feelings.
Most likely they were eaten at the same time
@@chubbydinosaur9148it may not be correct, they may have went to the cave to eat their dead in peace from predators. Chimpanzees, gorillas do commonly chew their dead. And dyk that aghari tribe in India eat dead human flesh? It's still being done today.
I wonder if burial came about as a means to get rid of bodies, thus making sure the tribe avoids disease and predators attracted to the rotting flesh. Burial can take many forms, but we're usually reffering to covering the deceased in a thick layer of dirt/and/or/stone, both protecting the body and making sure most of the stench doesn't permeate out into the environment, which is a good thing since humans don't like the smell of death either, which allowed members of the group to remember their dead and feel a direct connection with them without having to gaze upon what was left of them, you probably don't wanna see what was inside of grandma every time you visit her grave.
I feel like that reinforced the idea, but there is also a second factor.
If you're not a nomad species, it is not fun to see your loved ones rotting and being dragged by vultures and other animals after they're gone. It is not fun to be hunting or looking for berries and having to look at your mom's rotting corpse hanging out on the nearby rock.
@@enkiimuto1041 Yep, a big factor at play here. We see a trend regarding intelligence and emotions when we're looking at life(mammals at least), the more intelligent an animal becomes, the more nonsensical and extreme its behaviour becomes in terms of emotions. For example, elephants can be very caring and are known to remember their dead and even have 'rituals' regarding them, however, they can still feel extreme hate and they often express it in very violent outbursts. Same as whales, look at Moby Dick for an example(yes, the book was based on a real whale), a whale that went crazy after whalers fucked with either it or its family, another example would be Porphyrios, a presumed sperm whale that terrorised the Holy Roman Empire, we still have no fucking idea why it was so far inland but nonetheless it wasn't mentally stable at all, as it sunk dozens if not hundreds of vessels.
Ahem, I don't know where this went but anyway, summed up, the more intelligent an animal becomes, the 'stupider' it is in turn, as it starts 'believing' in stuff that's not true like made up concepts, we for example see meaning where there is not, when a less than blessed animal looks at a corpse it just sees a corpse, an ant doesn't feel emotion, it doesn't feel a need to remember individuals within the colony, but when a human sees a corpse, be it human or not, we see a reminder of life and death, something that most animals don't even understand, because they do not know they will die. We hate and love death at the same time, the greatest enemy and most powerful ally of humanity, we are captivated and horrified by it, but life doesn't care if you're afraid of death or not, all it cares about is if you spread your genes, that's it, it doesn't care if you want there to be an afterlife, you're just a pawn to be used and then thrown away, to explode into energy and then crumble to dust. "It is sometimes and appropriate response to reality to go insane", to feel anger towards it is useless, what good does it do to scream into an abyss?
Wow I gotta take my meds.
There are easier ways to get rid of a body. Like walking away.
@@julianshepherd2038 Kinda hard to carry a body for long distances while watching out for predators, while humans werr extremely nomadic, we still gravitated towards favorable areas for shelter, food, etc, caves are a good example, the last thing you wanna do in the wild is abandon your shelter if you don't know where tf you are going, don't let go of the sparrow in your hand for the crow on the fence.
@@dud3655I don’t read comments when they’re this long usually but this was worth it✅interesting. That violence that comes through to defend love, that thing were all trying to get back to, but we keep taking eyes instead. We aren’t done with war. We aren’t nearing oneness, we’re still only hate OR love, good OR bad. We will keep doing this until ?
Thank you, Ben for bringing these cutting-edge discoveries and studies to our attention. Looking forward to the video to follow.
Best chronological mapping of this extraordinary discovery I’ve seen yet.
I've been following them since their discovery was announced in sci show and can never get enough of content about them
The peer reviews of the Berger study were eye opening and in some cases brutal. Not a single one of the peer reviewers agreed with the assertions made about burials without much further study being done. Gutsick Gibbon has a great video going over the peer reviews.
Thank you!
Yes, brutal is a fairly gentle word for them. 😂 They basically say Berger needed to do a WHOLE bunch more tests before deciding what actually went on in the cave. Which, yeah, he did skip a lot, I think because he badly wants this all to be true, and let it blind him to the slow and methodical steps needed in science.
apparently the fire and the cave"art" is not what it seems,
@@albertmendoza6618I think no one knows until they compare the zigzags to the patterns on the rock
Thank you! More people need to know this. The study clearly wasn’t ready for publication.
I've been following this for a bit but all information is a trickle at best. This is so exciting and humbling
Just adore the paleo anthropology content!! Please keep up the hard work lads!! ❤
Outstanding video, Ben! I had left on the "CC" option. TH-cam's dumb robotic closed captioner printed "Homo naledi" as "hormonal lady"!
Thank you for this presentation. I look forward with great anticipation, for part 2. I keep thinking of things to say, questions to ask, but I don't, mostly because I don't have any degrees in this field, only a lot of reading and study. Please keep presenting these fascinating videos.
Don’t let degrees hold you back from expressing questions you may have. The question/thought alone may often be unique in itself that it helps professionals see a connection or rethink any current theories or models.
@@serenity6281 Okay, here it is. I find myself wondering what kind of egocentrism makes H. sapiens feel that "we" could ever be the only creatures who routinely and ritually disposed of our dead.
@@CZPanthyr probably because for the longest time we are the only species doing so, of course there are creatures like the elephants who were known to visit the skeleton of their dead relatives, but for the longest time it is understand that only we do this ritualistic burial and another thing is that fossils rarely preserve behavior, so finding such evidence for a thing that were usually attributed to our species in an older and more "ancient" lineage of humans are quite surprising at least
I think its hilarious that Netflix couldnt resist making images inspired by 1950s alien "sightings" for their documentary.
This.
This is genuinely just so insane and so cool! I love the way you lay out the info in these videos. You're awesome!
One question raised by the extremely tempting assumption that the bodies were intentionally placed in the cave is 'what happened to the other Naledi bodies?'. Presumably the species lived in the area for at least hundreds, and probably thousands, of years - even if their population was never large that is still a lot of bodies. Quite a few would be victims of predators, and a number would also have died too far away to be carried all the way to the cave...but....where are the others? Alternatively, if the bodies in the cave were 'special' somehow - how?
possibly not all in one cave. And/or, that cave is for only one category of tribe member
@@thekaxmax Which is why this is such a fascinating puzzle - every suggested explanation raises its own questions.
@@qwertyuiop1st more finds required, any way around.
I recall the Eons podcast mentioning there are signs of habitants on other caves, but never this one. Tool use and other things from likely other hominid species, but that one seems to be deemed not good to live, adding intent to when they did enter it.
@@thekaxmax - Perhaps there were other tomb chambers where more bodies were interred, but have since been closed off by geological forces. Any way you look at it, the Naledi must have REALLY wanted those bodies to be placed where they were - can you imagine doing the "Superman crawl" section while trying to bring the weight of a dead fellow Naledi with you? They must have been a very athletic people.
This is a truly amazing set of finds in Rising Star Cave! Some really interesting finds, and many years of science ahead to be able to better understand these finds.
Before anyone gets horribly excited about this cave system's finds, realize that Berger skipped a bunch of work that needed to be done before he put his newest paper up for peer review to be published. The peer review answers to the newest paper, well, let's just say that brutal is a fairly gentle word for them. 😂
Gutsick Gibbon (Erika has a great channel!) covered the responses to his paper in some depth. They basically say Berger needed to do a WHOLE bunch more tests before deciding what actually went on in the cave. Which, yeah, he did skip a lot, I think because he badly wants this all to be true, and let it blind him to the slow and methodical steps needed in science that he just ... ignored.
That's not to say his opinions are wrong. It just means that he seems to have jumped to waaaay too many conclusions for his paper to be accepted for publication yet. I will be very interested to see what science comes out of that cave in the next decade or two!
Hi Ben, could it be that the bodies were placed higher up the cave until there was a large amount of bones that when they came to place another new dead Neladi corpse they simply moved the remaining bones further down the cave system as this would explain the snail mark's and the mix up of bones in the lower Chamber?
Nah. It was a ceiling collapse, probably a while after burial.
😂😂😂he
😂
Well done. I’d like to point out that the comments the reviewers gave on the publications in eLife are publically available. No one even mentions brain size, which Berger seems to use as an argument to call critics ‘speciists’ or something, but they all conclude that, as you said, Berger et al. fail to disprove any null hypotheses.
I was passionately in favor of Berger's work until I found out about how he treated the peer review process. Now I suspect that he's done more damage to the peer review process than any of his discoveries can justify.
@@Cat_Woods that’s not him, it’s eLife, which has become a lot like a predatory journal after it changed owners.
@@ArjanKop
I'm sorry, Berger deserves a lot of the blame here, the response to the reviews was a standard form letter not really addressing individual criticisms --- Berger et al chose eLife because they couldn't get published in other journals.
@@charoleawood that’s true. It’s a shame, really, because even without all the wishful thinking and roaring news items, a cave full of pretty much intact early hominin fossils is exciting enough as it is.
Great stuff Ben! Love the channel and the amazing videos you and the crew produce! Way too cool! Also pretty awesome that you guys got to go to these sites. Ngl, I'm a little jelly. 😆I wanted to be a paleontologist so bad but sadly my health and body decided to rebel against me. ❤But, this way I can live vicariously through you younglings. 😆Keep up the great work guys!
From Dave in Alaska! ❤
I can’t find a part 2! 😢
Is it up? I’d love to watch more about naledi!!
Stunning science video! And professional discussion of the different theories is a perfect example of science. Highly recommend this channel!
So I'm 14 minutes in and from what I've gathered naledi was like the nautilus of humanity.
Old hardware in a modern setting.
Absolutely fascinating! Can’t wait for the next part ❤
I love anything dealing with early hominin history, so this is super exciting to see and I cant wait for part 2
we don't have a date for the dragon stone feature falling , and lee him self claimed that Naledi would not have use the current entrance...
Even the possibility and the implications bring me close to tears while listening.
The exact video this Anthropology Major needed to see today. Thanks Ben! Can't wait for part 2!
This was a great video, very informative and a concise and detailed summary of this discovery in a clear and unbiased, well structured presentation... Nice! Can't wait for Part 2 👍🏼👍🏼
The thumbnail was straight out of horror movies poster. Its something scary yet calming about it
Wow another information packed video! Gives me something to ponder for a long while
Wow!!! Great video! Fascinating stuff. Thanks for sharing
Definitely is one of my favorite channels. Thanks!
I was born in SA and back in the 90s i remember asking some bushmen if they believe in an afterlife. they where confused and didnt understand the question. so I rephrased it like this. What do you do with your dead? they answered "Oh we just put them in a cave and then leave the area". I understand the bushmen have nothing to do with naledi but i can see how this is just a logical thing to do.
Fantastic stuff!!!
My favourite arkeological investigation. Thanks for the updates 👍
I am surprised that their is any controversy as to Werther they where intentionally buried. My understanding is that prof Berger's team claim not gust that they had been taken to these chambers, but that they have evidence for the pits that had been dug to place them in.
I expect some day Prof. Berger will win a Nobel Prize I certainly think he deserves one, especially if the implications prove to be half as paradme shifting as they apear to be.
I really enjoyed this longer-form content. I know it's probably not for everyone, and probably takes a hell of a lot of work, but it's interesting and refreshing to hear about the back and forth of papers refuting each other and generally engaging in the scientific method, rather than just hearing the most sensational paper with no arguments. I'm not a scientist by any metric but I love me some thorough discourse and reasoning, and I would never seek this stuff out on my own, despite my interest in archaeological anthropology.
Thank you to you too for this thoughtful and detailed examination of evidence and fresh eyes on an extremely exciting discovery. I look forward to the next chapter in your work. These discoveries have made waves because they call into question so many sacred cows in our search for the whole story of us (most of which are pure imagination anyway) without the requisite secrecy between only a few old men across many decades. One of the most important findings relative to Homo Naledi is the concept of bringing in “fresh eyes” and daylight to sites and theories that are stale and fossilized themselves.
The good old "Pay respects to the research, get invited back" technique. Love it Ben!
I just found this channel. Really like it!
Such seriously cool, love your guy's channel so much and the footage you got was awesomeness!!!
Those pictures from the Netflix show are scary! Especially at 24:50. Nice jump scare
Ikr
So interesting!! Can’t wait for more!
This is very interesting. Can't wait for part 2.
Great video and great breakdown of so many animals. I love imagining what life must have been like back then, but I'm also happy we're only able to imagine it 😆
It was an informative and wonderful scientific introduction...thank you for sharing
So interesting work, thank you!
Excellent job discussing the material. A+
Finally! Ive waited for this video for a long time!
i'm so obsessed with this story!!!
You make my Day with this video thx ben yoe never disappoint
Your my favourite youtuber keep up the great work
Can't wait for part 2!
imho the concept art of the slightly blurred faces of the H. Naledi is going to give everyone here nightmares
Excellent video! Love it!
Thanks Ben, very informative
Probably one of the creepiest paleoanthropological discoveries ever made
I truly love your videos. Many thanks!!!
😂 RT’s RT’s tr RSS t 😂 dears red fr 😊
Thanks for the content brother.
This is an incredible, and exciting, story. I saw Berger's documentary and it was fascinating, although I was left with a number of questions, including the subject of genetic testing on the remains, whether the remains have been shared with labs in Europe, the US, and elsewhere for analysis, whether experts in the field have been invited to participate in this dig, and others. I know that paleontologists and anthropologists are incredibly jealous of their finds, Richard Leakey among them, which is a flaw in the system, but I would like to see others bring their knowledge and experience to bear on this amazing discovery. Thanks, Ben, for the video and I am looking forward to the next exciting episode!
Fascinating. Thanks to everyone involved with this work.
Your content remains astounding
Remarkably well done
You've done a great job with this video, thanks 👍
Looking forward to part 2 👍
Ben may not be pregnant, but he never fails to deliver
😂😂😂
In before the "dID YoU jUsT AsSUme tHey GenDEr" hive mind 😂
@@usmcson3 ?? where'd this come from
@@usmcson3BRO IS FIGHTING AIR ‼️‼️❗🗣🤜👊👊🍃🍃
Is there going to be part 2 soon? Very interesting.
Seen this doc its pretty good well done
Thanks for the update. I initially liked the Netflix documentary, but after learning about the negative peer reviews of the paper I wish I'd never seen it. It was way too biased, only showing how confidant the researchers were in their theories and made it feel as if everything was settled. Not the language they used, but as someone who never heard of this it felt that way. Now I'm having to back-track and explain to people I told about the burials how none of that has been proven yet. Embarrassing.
The one problem I have with just dropping them down a chute would be that they would land in the same area and pile up. Deliberate burial and mourning for sure, ritualistic is within the realm of possibilities. I can’t see a group of ancient people taking another group of deceased people deep into a hard to access cave to dispose or bury them. It’s a difficult journey with modern tools.
13:04 scared the heck out of me lol I was listening to this video and not watching it as I cook, only to turn and see this image. Needless to say, I was shocked.
The artwork found in the cave is fascinating.
I anthropomorphize my dog because she’s so important to me. I so want to believe that this species had higher level development and socialization that included bonding and grief. Because they would be that much cuter! Come on, you didn’t think those drawing renditions weren’t cute?! Didn’t you just wanna bring one home?! But I think they really did have emotional connections and engaged in taking the bodies of their dead loved ones into a protected place.
why does the art at 13:09 look like something from analog horror it's actually so scary for no reason
I know right? I got jumpscared so bad 😂
Mind blown. Great video! ❤
Nice Be. I'm inclined to think Naledi may be older with long species persistence.
Phenomenal video.
This is the first time I have watched your videos and I am Hooked!
Well Done! Whenever you wonder whether the time and energy that you spend matters, come back to these words of encouragement. You take very complex things and break them down so everyone can share. What a great gift you and your team have.
I am actually a Medieval Historian who has been to Africa six times and own a number of Neanderthal and early Sapiens artifacts. Obviously, I have a love for anthropology as well! I was visiting JBurg when the announcement of this discovery was made. It was so new, I didn't have a chance to break away from teaching before I had to come back to the States. How cool would it have been to be an eyewitness to the most important anthropological find in the past 50 years! I met Dr. Berger in Dallas when he brought Naledi on a visiting exhibit.
I wonder what you think of Homo-Longi! Are they a fourth branch amongst ourselves, Sapiens, Denisovans, and Neanderthals?
Good show, thank you
29:45 That lock, that pelican case. I don't think your stuff is secure in there.
Dont recommend watching this video at 3am. The pics from "cave of bones" were terrifying, my entire body freezed up at 13:03
I once was terrified by my own reflection in a car window late at night --- silly, huh?
@@charoleawood Damn that's something haha!
When is the next part coming out? Good video
A smaller-sized brain does not necessarily mean un-smart. There are plenty of Sapiens alive today with smaller brains, but who can function just as well as anybody else. It is the complexity of the brain that counts, the number of synaptic connections and folds, and the quality of curiosity and desire to learn.
The Cradle of Humankind museum has amazing info and artifacts.
It's most highly recommend to visit if possible.
My friends at the pub could also be described as a small brained, homonid species that looks human but not quite.