Chris brings out maturity in this discussion unlike others, most people like to overcrowd logos and icons . So when you minimise it its still viable and strong.
@@christianconcepcion1724 How many of those logos are recognizable because the companies have been around for decades versus the design being well done?
This is one comment that I truly agree with. Some of the most iconic brands have marks that don't have words or anything fancy but are so remarkably remembered. Instantaneous recognition for years and years.
It's actually ridiculous how good simple logo's are. I'm still learning the way of making them, sketches and shit but dude... ...those are awesome...the ones that are simple. They make a business look professional actually, and especially in business cards. Like, I'd love to make super decorative logo's, they're great but difficult to make. I mean, there is well trained people who can make decorative logo's but I ain't for that. Simple logo's for life! :D
Twinkie Cakey decorative logos can work, if they're done right. The simpler, the better. Lots of decorative logos exist and work. You can spot them. FTD, for example. Flower delivery. Flowers with a Mercury, the God of speed, within the logo, signifying speedy delivery of your flowers.
When the young designer look the luxury brand they say "they're not boring" - 0:42 but actually is, i think its a bias because they know its a big brand and famous, when they see the city steel logo they say " i dont get it, its boring 0:32 " when that brand goes up i believe they will say its good logo. its bias i love jijibaba logo its like community with the letter i . i think the city steel logo is amazing, pretty simple, and people love everything simple i guess but the typeface need a little modification. . . simplicity is good and memorable
I usually don't do logos unless the request comes from a client that gives me a good vibe when it comes to them trusting my judgement and experience. I'm not saying they shouldn't be involved in the process and that my word and vision are absolute and final, but there have been many times when I come across clients that think the price I should charge should be directly proportional to the complexity of the design... "you want me to pay you that much for this?, it's so simple, I could've done it!"... then you go on and explain and set examples like Nike, Apple, Chanel, McDonalds, etc. A logo is just an identifier, sure, it has to convey certain things about the product/service/company but it's still just an identifier. These people want to keep piling stuff with complex twists and turns and gradients and ornaments all over the place and this text and that effect; it stops being a logo and becomes a flyer/ad. The moment I feel they're going to be like that I tell them I'm not their guy. They're just not worth the time and energy. And unfortunately it seems more and more clients are like that nowadays. There's also the "I'll just go to Fiverr" people.
I agree that some clients don't get it and should be avoided. Some people just don't and won't ever get it. That being said, some people just need to understand a little better what goes into it. For those clients, I have a logo explanation document I give them (to supplement my verbal explanations). I think everything comes down to building rapport and earning your client's trust. Once you have that, they should be down for whatever you advise.
I think meeting with the client, understanding the company's product, brand and attitude is enough to envision and create the logo. You should have your best creation with at least two backups. They should never be involved in designing the logo beyond that point. If there is more than one stakeholder, it will never get done and end up in arguments and bloodshed. Simpler is best. Visually appealing and long lasting. People know some brands already and what they represent, so Dior can just use the name with a simple, yet appealing logo with just the name. For new or medium-sized companies, maybe even larger, with not much brand recognition, just having the name may not work, unless the name is unique, but explicit. Ralph's, for example. Just the name works.
Just found this now. The City Steel logo is amazing. I’m surprised that none fo the designers fully understood the power of this logo though. The “C” in City Steel is a representation of the stylized steel Diamond pattern that is commonly used as a safety measure to ensure footing and grip for walkways, truck boxes and siding for industrial parts.
Chris, You missed the letter “I” in CITY STEEL is a steel I-Beam in section. It’s the strongest part in the whole logo for me. It sells it and makes it interesting and not boring.
i don't think that's what they were saying. but there are plenty of great and simple marks for "construction" companies. look up Stanley or Caterpillar logo.
Logo doesn't need, or I would even say should not follow other visual art in the sense that you don't want someone to over spend time to analyse and look at how interesting it is. Simplicity, enough uniqueness, and distinguishable at any scale + elegance is the main thing. Honestly it's really about durability and flexibility (can go on anywhere). Of course if you can maintain all that, be as clever with the design as you want. I actually like the city steel logo. The C on top is building blocks that is like a 3d cube at a single glance. Anyway, often people forgot it's really all about the product/brand value that the logo goes on / associated with.
I agree 100% with you Chris. One of the first lessons we learnt when I went to design school 20+ years ago was the KISS principle. A principle that is all to often forgotten about or pushed aside as "not applicable in this situation or solution."
I'm new here so I don't know if this happens often, but what I like about this video is that you guys disagree. It sparks discussion and it seems much more enriching because it gives some insight on your thought process, cheers from Argentina
Are you ever worried that because your so skillful at debating and winning conversations and disagrements (which you are incredibly gifted at) that you might miss or push out very good insight coming from someone less conversational talented? Please don't take that as a dig, its a genuine question, The futur is amazing by the way and your putting out the most valueable content in the industry big fan. Keep it up
I never thought about that. If someone has out in a lot of time forming their thoughts and disagrees I suppose I’d be more inclined to hear what they have to say.
So for the passed 2-3 weeks of binge watching The Futur I learned about so many visual arts option that were unknown to me. I was given a how to guide to direct my life, and I'm happy to have been shown this channel by a friend. I'm doing my best to apply the knowledge that I didn't know existed and slowly getting better at structuring my days to be more productive and efficient. I've been sharing the knowledge that you showed me to friends that were lost on pricing and how to sell themselves. I would use the 'gamble' talk to give them confidence in their own work. I'm really into the fine arts, and there are some questions that I have to go in search and look for myself, and a lot of what was holding me back was myself, and listening in to these informative videos I was able to confront myself. Thank you!
"Those are cool!" I think what they're noticing is that they recognize them and think the brands are cool...but the logos are ultra simple and 'boring.'
Firstly, I love the videos you guys put out there. It has helped me and given me more strength and belief in what I do so thank you. Secondly, I always feel like the dream team are too scared to say what they think. It makes some parts of the videos feel awkward. It's like they want to say what they think Chris wants to hear rather than giving him a real opinion. It would be good to hear them speak their mind. I think Chris and the viewers would appreciate what they say more. It's not like they don't have super valid things to say so let's hear it.
I totally agree with you ! I'am new to this channel, and that's something, that made me a great impression. It's not bad to question things and speak your mind, this may lead to a new idea, or you could be completely wrong - doesn't matter . I just feel like "this is cool/boring" is not enough i would love to hear the team elaborate.
On the "City Steel", the I is the elephant in the room. Check out the profile of an actual steel beam... Bloody brilliant! Doesn't even need the C mark.
This is a great conversation. I would argue a logo’s simplicity will offer less distraction on all the marketing platforms where it will be secondary in the discussion of products and service.
@Chris Do Its funny you say you have problems with young people keeping it simple. I am a graphic designer in a corporate setting, I am 23, and I am always trying to push a more simple look because 1, it looks better, and 2 I think keeping it simple elevates who we are as a brand (by the way I work for a home builder who is on the higher end of homes) and I feel like I get a lot of push back from many people who want it to be more eye catching. Its actually kind of a fun part of my job trying to get to the simpler cleaner, more professional look when those around me want something flashy. But I agree with your design, it was beat into me into design school and I can't nor do I want to get away from it. Love your content helps keep my design work elevated
Chris Do making so much sense. The man and woman in the interview are like a case study for how the average client will be for 98% of people who choose to work in design. Most of your clients will have strong opinions without being able to articulate anything useful or objective about what informs those opinions. "It’s just not strong" (translation: I have this opinion and design is really only about aesthetic opinions so my opinion is equally weighted to all other opinions.) Even designers are nightmare clients lol.
I agree with you Chris that simplicity is the most powerful design aspect. but how can I have the taste to differentiate simple great design from usual and normal?
There are a few rules I live by when designing a logo. 1) Always design logos in black and white first. 2) Make sure the logo scales without losing detail. 3) Be aware of trends but design logos from a timeless aspect and dont lock a company into one product category. Recently, I was designing a logo for a craft beer crowdfunding app. The logo concept I came up with gave the company the ability to expand into other product categories without having to do an entire logo re-design.
im really really struggling on my first job. Im a young graphic designer who's tasked to do a logo on my first day at an agency. I constantly getting rejected by my art director saying obvious thing and sorts. I don't need cool visuals. i need a solid foundation of concept and thats all that it tooks. i need to refresh my mind and think bigger and contextual. the futur has helped me understanding this grand concept of design. Thank you so much
(Most) clients don't realize what they're paying you for is insight, not just production. Often I meet clients in the TV production biz that don't know what they want, and rather than trusting you to use your artistic insight/experience, they push for an idea that you KNOW isn't going to be effective. Sometimes you have to just let their terrible idea guide the process, do the thing, and let them fail. [As long as you fight for a quality product, I say you're still an artist.]
Man, I'm just two days into your program, Dude you are sick Your numbers are showing the movement and revolutionary methods You're are so right, teaching others what you know makes you a higher being. Ultimate consciousness I've never believed in anything I've seen on you tube. Now I know I was wrong.
People in my area where i live also generally dont understand that a logo is not an emblem, so what Chris said about fighting an uphill battle, i have to fight that AND trying to explain to them what will work and what wont.
I always give my very best to explain to my client the ins and outs of every single move i've made and why. It helps them be more confident and i've learned that from this channel. What's the superlative of best? Bestest? That's you.
I personally think another thing that makes a logo great is the success of the company, I've spent a lot of time changing my logo because I was comparing it to already established companies.
The Jijibaba logo looks like there's 3 stick people side by side with the one in the middle being the tallest, it's like the logo is telling me the company is people friendly
I love the symmetry in the logo as well. You have the three dots of the "iji" on one line, then the negative circles in the "baba", not to mention the name itself is "symmetrical" as well, so the logo kind of emphasises that.
Yes. Community. Togetherness. They look like the pieces in the board game, Life. I don't know if adding color for the i's and the small j may have not made your eyes go cross-eyed, but all one color makes it cohesive and shows equality within the community. Visually, it might have made it less jumbled, though.
I think they felt the logo is not unique. Chris points out simplicity which is really true, and I think they would agree with him with that. It's just that they have used words that looked like their looking for a flashy logo. Just a misunderstanding/ misuse of words, I think. Overall great video!!
City Steel is a great logo. If it is a software/app development website... Not if you are an steel mill /iron ore company...that is the problem with this logo.
This was by far the best logo from the entire roundup. Your coworker should surley know better than clients out there who can’t separate the logo from the entire marketing around an established brand.
I’m not a designer at all, but from my humble perspective as someone that those logos are meant to work on, the city steel one doesn’t do it for me. It’s looks generic and boring. Which isn’t a bad thing in of itself. But because it looks like a million other logos, if I see that c somewhere I won’t think, “oh that city steel construction company”. Compared to Apple’s logo which is as simple as possible, but I know immediately as Apple. Obviously it might be because when I see an apple I think “apple”, but I think my point still stands.
Chris nailed it. Timeless simplicity is always an uphill battle with clients, which can be frustrating. But I'm going to use the bell bottom analogy next time for sure :-)
bkre8ive i believe that there's a fashion, girls clothing, company that uses a bell bottoms logo. A girl wearing bell bottoms. I forget the name, though. It's a recent, trendy type store. I may be wrong, but I recall seeing that logo.
I really like the City Steel logo; the typeface is kind of reminiscent of steel girders. Only thing I'd be curious to try is to maybe move the name to the rh side of the icon to see what it looks like over two lines. Then maybe seperate it from the icon slightly using a line the same thickness as the gaps. It's all a maybe and pretty subjective though. It looks great regardless :)
Good logos look clean and reflect the essence of an entity. Great logos do all of that while also surprising and delighting the viewer. The best logos in my opinion produce an "aha" moment where the viewer notices something they didn't at first (think FedEx arrow). When design surprises it's like a "smile in the mind (good book btw)." I think that may be what was missing from the logo discussed up here. It was a clean, solid and effective logo, but it lacked some cleverness that adds an extra layer of visual storytelling. I did like the typographic changes though. Just think the icon was a few steps from being a 100% refined.
It's a super interesting debate. It is the duel between functionalism and expressionism. Two schools of thought about the role of design. For my part, I am very attached to the thought developed by the Bauhaus "form follows function." I think that we live in an era of visual overload and that the role of the designer is to make the world more simple and clear. Responding to a specific problem to improve people's lives. The logo should not express emotions, art can. Are we artists? I do not think so. :) Thank you The futur, best from France 🇫🇷
City Steel logo feels strong and solid. The shape and the color of the strokes resemble the H-beams, which are quite clever in my opinion. However, the kerning on the "STEEL" looks a bit inconsistent with the "CITY", and despite the clever details the overall outcome looks a bit generic.
simplicity and clarity go hand in hand most of the time, however there is stuff like oversimplifying to the point the message does get lost. So you have to consider if its good simple or bad simple
Yes simplicity is great. You're totally right about not pushing for trends or creating something crazy to "wow" someone. However I think in the case of this particular logo, the other guy has a good point. The "C" icon is fine but it isn't anything spectacular. We can all find 1000's of icons like this one on dribbble or IG right now. They're well done and there's nothing wrong with them. I think they're alluding to application because application helps to tell the story of the brand. The Nike logo is visually fantastic because of it's simplicity but it wouldn't be relevant at all without the story. I think it's pretty lame to look at a logo and be condescending towards critiques by saying "young designers want this and that" without recognizing and talking through why they may want that. Again, simplicity is great and the logo is well done. That doesn't mean it's free from critique and possibly not the right choice for a company.
guys, have you been to a construction site? piles(pattern) of solid semi rusty(orangy color) steel bars, pipes, columns, etc? i see that in the logo. though i am not sure if that's one of their services but yah, in a glimpse, the logo made sense to me quickly. make it look like a C then its great! so i believe the City Steel logo is done great. it is not boring, i think it's smart. if i were a kckss brand designer for the same type of company, maybe i too would end up with the same feel and which is different from the logos of other industries, like fashion. you are awesome Chris :)
Bell bottoms and pigtails would make a great logo . . . which is probably what my nightmare will be tonight. I have long loved what Antoine Marie Jean-Baptiste Roger, comte de Saint-Exupéry wrote in "Wind, Sand, and Stars"-"It seems that perfection is attained not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing more to remove."
I agree with you. Logos are supposed to be timeless and simple. It should be timeless, simple but also designed purposefully, having some subtle tie in with the concept. Also keep in mind for it to be clean, graceful and polished so that when it's printed on smaller dimensions such as a namecard, it's readable with ease, as well as being easily optimised on mobile. A logo doesn't have to be too literal either, a little subtlety goes a long way. What's important is you created an easy to recognise 'face 'to your brand. A brand is not a logo. A logo is part of a brand. That's easily the simplest mistake for young designers (i have been a victim as well). Also, that checkered shirt dude seems arrogant lol.
I use this fashion example. There are fashion trends that change over time, just like there are design trends that change over time. But a good logo is like a white t-shirt and black leather jacket. James Dean looked good in it. John Travolta looked good in it. Michael Jackson looked good in it. A random guy walking on the street looks good in it. And a guy wearing it fifty years from now will look good. Simple is timeless.
I can agree about the speaking part about design. The “city” logo what Chris showed us it’s not good one. Symbol and type are good separately because they are so different. If you choose the C from the typeface and create the symbol with it, it will fits together like one piece.
How can we decide what's best for our client? Like, when should I use just the wordmark with small modifications, like all of the logos shown here; or go with a pictorial mark? Would I be able to always design just a wordmark? I don't really know what criteria I should use for these decisions. Also, I find really hard to charge a lot for a wordmark logo. I know it's not just about typing it, but clients don't usually understand that. Thank you.
simptius your presentation explaining that to your client is where you're lacking. Especially explaining why your logo works for their brand and models their product. That simplicity has just as much worth as having some decorative, but not as memorable, logo. Therefore, your invoice is justifiable. However, don't say that. Imply that. Also, remember to KISS. That is what all marketing people should remember as the number one rule when it comes to designing a company Logo. Slogan. Mark. Function. Product. Simplicity is key and vital to a company's market recognition. It saves on costs, too. Letters and Colors, the use and number of different ones, affect the costs and bloat the budget. So, it should be considered when discussing costs of materials, like business cards, brochures, etc. Nowadays with the Online world, it's not as costly, but those types of marketing swag still exist.
I dig the conversation of the video, and I agree with some restraint being elegant. Though I am not sold on the city steel text. I'd drop the space between city and steel. The two words wouldn't be confusing when mashed together. In doing so the text could be centered to the logo without it feeling lopsided. Love these videos, thanks for doing them and starting these conversations.
I think it's a pretty good design, but wonder if it could be simplified even more by taking away the negative cuts and then slightly modifying the shape. Great points and thanks for the video :)
At the end of the day, it's a judgement call between representing what the client likes, and representing their product(s) or service(s). So I don't believe it's always fair to push back as a designer unless there's a technical issue. It's important to put weight behind the decisions of the client, simply because I'm not the customer, and it's better the client gets something they're confident in without needing to manipulate their thinking, because that can affect the quality of their service. And branding, even for massive franchises can and do change/evolve alongside the businesses, it's not something that has to be stuck with forever.
Is there a full version of this talk? If it's in the podcast, then I probably haven't gotten to that point yet lol (just finished Listening through Melinda's series).
I kinda feel like your friend was saying that the logo is great but because logos aren't mindblowing things to begin with, there's nothing to gush about - even when looking at the best logos on earth one never fawns over it. They are more like a star in a constellation. An individual star isn't particularly interesting inside of a constellation, but the image that all the stars create together makes or breaks your opinion of the constellation. In this case, the company brand.
City steel could just be the segments of the C without the double stripe. It could even be a more closed C. I feel there's too much going on in it to be instantly recogniseable
I must say, and I am sorry if sounding more of a bad mouth, but I feel that the kerning is way off... It does not seem «the same» throughout the logo. I do like the cube and even the font choice seems to keep up the same «graphic line» of the cube above. However, it does not feel right. For example, too much space on the «steel» word, and too little between some characters on the «city» word, in every single kerned pair, «ci», «it» and «ty». If we compare it to the «steel» word, because, perhaps, of the amount of positive space each letter uses, they seem way too tight but placed appart from each other... And then, because of the optical way the word «steel» ends, with a «L», the box seems off balanced... If this was supposed to be done either to keep it center aligned geometrically, or optically disbalanced, it should've been assumed so that it didn't feel kind of off... Perhaps this is just me, and I appologize if someone might feel annoyed by my comment. This still seems a good logo. I just get a bit picky regarding some stuff... Truly sorry!
Steel should be bolder, so it fits being bigger. Signifies strength. Where City is tighter. More like a city is. Scrunched space. Yes, it may look off, alignment-wise. Which I did notice, too. But, it worked for the reasons I mentioned above. I'm not sure if that's what Chris was going for, but that's the impression I got after the initial alignment "offness". Logos don't have to always be aligned to work.
Association is what people often use or don't realize they use to determine what's cool or luxurious. From a design perspective, there are sensibilities that determine the feeling of a logo, a logo that evokes a specific emotion is usually based on the characteristics of the product or service it represents. Logos are ambiguous and should be kept simple so they can be tailored properly, as Paul Rand said: “Design is so simple, that's why it's so complicated.” I think that City Logo is wicked lol, I agree 100% Chris Do and wicked hat.
Phillip J. Clayton evoking an emotion is gold. If you can do that in a logo or slogan, and your client recognizes it, and its backed up by focus group results, you're looking at a very nice paycheck. Simple, yet explicit, and evocative. Golden!
It's really tough to exercise restraint when making a logo, especially when your boss/client is really pushing for something that has a "story" or a more literal icon. How can we, as a community, build more confidence in our client base to trust a simpler , stronger logo?
The bell bottoms remark is a very good point. Do you want your brand represented in bell bottoms, or a good suit? A good suit is simple, elegant, and timeless. It works for pretty much everything. I like that City Steel logo because it's strong, simple, and it can work in a variety of configurations and applications for print, product, web, etc.
Chris, the first thing I noticed is the Slab-serif I creates an steel I-beam silhouette as used in construction and was a smart move! Love the logotype, not a fan of the C mark used in the lockup, that could have been better designed.
Thx u truly r amazing to make this video (though at 1st I'm confused why y'all talkimg about the steel logo). Just to point out though, rather than focusing on making simple or complex or beautiful or whatever it is for the logo, it is better to see what client's logo is about and using straight point of what it means in picture. Afterall, logo is only like an identity of company. A few words should have described it in 1 simple picture.
This time I agree with Aaron it`s solid but not amazing, but I do think non designers tend to put the value of a design based on it`s brand recognition which you can not do with a fresh made new logo.
I do think there is an oversimplification trend coming around where designers are using the logo "accessories" to make their logo seem cool and they lose focus on the logo form itself. The quality in being simple is much harder than it looks. I think the City Steel company looks fine but I'm very bothered by the slab letter 'i' though. The colours are almost the only form of character allowed in that design.
It's 9am in Syd i'm listening to this video and turn the volume up high cause Chris' voice was quite low, then Aaron came in at 0:33 and scared the crap outta me lol. Agree with the simplicity of these logos though trying to explain to clients that it's not a "2 min logo" and that using timeless typefaces are essential in creating a strong brand identity is the BIGGEST challenge.
I’m building a website and trying to come up with a logo for it. It’s not easy to come up with something that looks interesting but is also simple and clean.
I really like the way you think, but I think CITY STEEL Misses the mark, if the companies name is two words city steel, I think that somehow the. S needs to be incorporated, and possibly may be in another color, if it does not make it too busy And perhaps something like a piece of steel that is connecting the two letters Then the wording city steel I think should be in a silver or a chrome color In my humble opinion 🙏 And yes I like your hat, and how the t Plays into the rest of the word
the orange color is like corten metal color and looks like beam of metal, i would darken the I and the double e letters to look like in a steel shade color, it is a good logo
I think Chris misunderstood him, he was talking about how the 3D cubes are often overused today in logos and that alone makes it dull. Especially the letter "C" incorporated into a cube.
i dont care if its “remembered” or not. you make a good product or provide a great service, people WILL remember you. having an intricate design for a logo is better because it says the company has taste and isnt bland or boring. yall should watch jontrons video on logos. he says it well.
You can still have a simple logo that ends up being dated. The jiiibaba logo looks dated because of the font used. That’s why the younger guy had such an adverse reaction to it. The logo looks like it was made in the early 2000s and is due for a font update. It’s bulky, thick, and goofy looking because of the unequal thickness on the “a”s and “b”s. Yes you should go for simple overall, but just because a font is simple doesn’t mean it will last the test of time; the jiiibaba example used is proof of that.
Also apparently it’s spelled jijibaba not jiiibaba but I couldn’t tell because there’s no hook to the j. If people can easily misread your logo thats another sign it’s not serving its purpose
@@thefutur I agree Futura isn't out of style, I use it myself often for product presentations, but it's about the implementation. Nike, Supreme, MVMT and Red Bull all use the font to good effect, but the choice of Bold Futura wasn't flattering the the word Jijibaba with its unequal thicknesses. Just because a font will not go out of style and has been around for decades doesn't mean that you cannot use the font incorrectly. There's more to picking a font for a logo than just writing your word in a classic font. The logo could be cleaner if it followed Calvin Kline's example and was Light. They could also get away with Book or Medium if they wanted to be different from most fashion brands which are on the thinner side, but going all the way to Bold doesn't match the characterization of the fashion idea and aligns itself more with companies like Fedex, Cisco, Crayola, and Metlife who all use Futura Bold.
It is the struggle I am always faced with: how do I tell my client that this funky, modern and trendy looking idea of his is not going to work in the long term?
I like your logo man I think it fits perfect for what it is, your mates sound main stream aha, a logo is nothing until a person/people make it something.
![ประสบการณ์ จ้าง Developer ที่ผมจะไม่มีวันลืม [ภาค1]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/bzivN4KDg-k/mqdefault.jpg)
Chris brings out maturity in this discussion unlike others, most people like to overcrowd logos and icons . So when you minimise it its still viable and strong.
The best logo is one that is instantly recognized, for years and years. That's what identity is about. NOT cute, doesn't have to be clever.
so many people don't understand this.
For me a geat logo is a logo a 10yo can draw in class by memory
@@thefutur Maturity does a lot... Man up people! :)
@@christianconcepcion1724
How many of those logos are recognizable because the companies have been around for decades versus the design being well done?
This is one comment that I truly agree with. Some of the most iconic brands have marks that don't have words or anything fancy but are so remarkably remembered. Instantaneous recognition for years and years.
simple is always better. Personally I like minimalist logos the best. They look both high class and durable.
same here.
It's actually ridiculous how good simple logo's are.
I'm still learning the way of making them, sketches and shit but dude...
...those are awesome...the ones that are simple.
They make a business look professional actually, and especially in business cards.
Like, I'd love to make super decorative logo's, they're great but difficult to make.
I mean, there is well trained people who can make decorative logo's but I ain't for that.
Simple logo's for life! :D
It also signifies a long lasting brand. Something the eye can easily associate.
Twinkie Cakey decorative logos can work, if they're done right. The simpler, the better. Lots of decorative logos exist and work. You can spot them. FTD, for example. Flower delivery. Flowers with a Mercury, the God of speed, within the logo, signifying speedy delivery of your flowers.
Flexibility in application really matters... simple is good.
When the young designer look the luxury brand they say "they're not boring" - 0:42 but actually is, i think its a bias because they know its a big brand and famous, when they see the city steel logo they say " i dont get it, its boring 0:32 " when that brand goes up i believe they will say its good logo. its bias
i love jijibaba logo its like community with the letter i .
i think the city steel logo is amazing, pretty simple, and people love everything simple i guess but the typeface need a little modification.
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simplicity is good and memorable
I usually don't do logos unless the request comes from a client that gives me a good vibe when it comes to them trusting my judgement and experience. I'm not saying they shouldn't be involved in the process and that my word and vision are absolute and final, but there have been many times when I come across clients that think the price I should charge should be directly proportional to the complexity of the design... "you want me to pay you that much for this?, it's so simple, I could've done it!"... then you go on and explain and set examples like Nike, Apple, Chanel, McDonalds, etc. A logo is just an identifier, sure, it has to convey certain things about the product/service/company but it's still just an identifier. These people want to keep piling stuff with complex twists and turns and gradients and ornaments all over the place and this text and that effect; it stops being a logo and becomes a flyer/ad. The moment I feel they're going to be like that I tell them I'm not their guy. They're just not worth the time and energy. And unfortunately it seems more and more clients are like that nowadays. There's also the "I'll just go to Fiverr" people.
hence the argument that i was attempting to make. i'll charge you more to make it simpler.
Tony CL Those clients should stay on Fiverr, the logo they get there will match their attitude.
I agree that some clients don't get it and should be avoided. Some people just don't and won't ever get it. That being said, some people just need to understand a little better what goes into it. For those clients, I have a logo explanation document I give them (to supplement my verbal explanations). I think everything comes down to building rapport and earning your client's trust. Once you have that, they should be down for whatever you advise.
I'm copying this para and posting it designing it as a Insta post. This Is So Accurate!
I think meeting with the client, understanding the company's product, brand and attitude is enough to envision and create the logo. You should have your best creation with at least two backups. They should never be involved in designing the logo beyond that point. If there is more than one stakeholder, it will never get done and end up in arguments and bloodshed. Simpler is best. Visually appealing and long lasting. People know some brands already and what they represent, so Dior can just use the name with a simple, yet appealing logo with just the name. For new or medium-sized companies, maybe even larger, with not much brand recognition, just having the name may not work, unless the name is unique, but explicit. Ralph's, for example. Just the name works.
Just found this now. The City Steel logo is amazing. I’m surprised that none fo the designers fully understood the power of this logo though. The “C” in City Steel is a representation of the stylized steel Diamond pattern that is commonly used as a safety measure to ensure footing and grip for walkways, truck boxes and siding for industrial parts.
Chris,
You missed the letter “I” in CITY STEEL is a steel I-Beam in section. It’s the strongest part in the whole logo for me. It sells it and makes it interesting and not boring.
Oooh snap. Love it. I really wish they'd lose the 'C' logomark though... I dunno.
City Steel is a construction company type of logo. It cant be compared with a fashion brand type of logo. Chris that is why they are fighting you.
i don't think that's what they were saying. but there are plenty of great and simple marks for "construction" companies. look up Stanley or Caterpillar logo.
I'll study them.
Jim
Brandon Read hello bro..
Jim Maina my apologies I didn’t mean to comment.
Logo doesn't need, or I would even say should not follow other visual art in the sense that you don't want someone to over spend time to analyse and look at how interesting it is. Simplicity, enough uniqueness, and distinguishable at any scale + elegance is the main thing. Honestly it's really about durability and flexibility (can go on anywhere). Of course if you can maintain all that, be as clever with the design as you want. I actually like the city steel logo. The C on top is building blocks that is like a 3d cube at a single glance. Anyway, often people forgot it's really all about the product/brand value that the logo goes on / associated with.
I agree 100% with you Chris. One of the first lessons we learnt when I went to design school 20+ years ago was the KISS principle. A principle that is all to often forgotten about or pushed aside as "not applicable in this situation or solution."
confident design is simple and understated.
I'm new here so I don't know if this happens often, but what I like about this video is that you guys disagree. It sparks discussion and it seems much more enriching because it gives some insight on your thought process,
cheers from Argentina
thanks!
Are you ever worried that because your so skillful at debating and winning conversations and disagrements (which you are incredibly gifted at) that you might miss or push out very good insight coming from someone less conversational talented? Please don't take that as a dig, its a genuine question, The futur is amazing by the way and your putting out the most valueable content in the industry big fan. Keep it up
I never thought about that. If someone has out in a lot of time forming their thoughts and disagrees I suppose I’d be more inclined to hear what they have to say.
I saw this video in 2018, today watching it again in 2024, it reminds me of my old office space, Thank you Chris for sharing all this knowledge
My pleasure!
So for the passed 2-3 weeks of binge watching The Futur I learned about so many visual arts option that were unknown to me. I was given a how to guide to direct my life, and I'm happy to have been shown this channel by a friend. I'm doing my best to apply the knowledge that I didn't know existed and slowly getting better at structuring my days to be more productive and efficient. I've been sharing the knowledge that you showed me to friends that were lost on pricing and how to sell themselves. I would use the 'gamble' talk to give them confidence in their own work. I'm really into the fine arts, and there are some questions that I have to go in search and look for myself, and a lot of what was holding me back was myself, and listening in to these informative videos I was able to confront myself. Thank you!
"Those are cool!" I think what they're noticing is that they recognize them and think the brands are cool...but the logos are ultra simple and 'boring.'
Firstly, I love the videos you guys put out there. It has helped me and given me more strength and belief in what I do so thank you.
Secondly, I always feel like the dream team are too scared to say what they think. It makes some parts of the videos feel awkward. It's like they want to say what they think Chris wants to hear rather than giving him a real opinion.
It would be good to hear them speak their mind. I think Chris and the viewers would appreciate what they say more. It's not like they don't have super valid things to say so let's hear it.
i encourage them to speak their mind. all the time.
Yes but I think they hold back like they lack belief in their own opinion.
I agree, this is Aaron btw, I feel like I am saying what im thinking but I will do it more, youve inspired me thanks.
YES! Go for it Aaron. I look forward to seeing more of you and your thoughts. Thanks for your reply man!
I totally agree with you !
I'am new to this channel, and that's something, that made me a great impression. It's not bad to question things and speak your mind, this may lead to a new idea, or you could be completely wrong - doesn't matter . I just feel like "this is cool/boring" is not enough i would love to hear the team elaborate.
I'm becoming increasingly of the mind that it's more important to create a logo that can't be bad, rather than a logo that's "good".
it can feel that way. but my take is simple is good. strip away the junk. what you are left with is something that is so functional it can become art.
It IS art, if you think about it. Crafting a logo is like crafting words or paint or clay or clothes or what have you.
LOVE Aaron, most honest, straight forward dude ever
yes he is.
I love the conversational style of all this lol first time ever watching a video that combines the feel of radio with the aesthetic of a tutorial lol
I always tell this line as a finisher in my discussions with the clients,
*It's so simple that's why it's so complicated!!*💐
On the "City Steel", the I is the elephant in the room. Check out the profile of an actual steel beam... Bloody brilliant! Doesn't even need the C mark.
Omg. I couldn't really stop looking at it... Maybe subconsciously I noticed something about the "I" and made a connection.
This is a great conversation. I would argue a logo’s simplicity will offer less distraction on all the marketing platforms where it will be secondary in the discussion of products and service.
Canosis perfect. Designers think the logo is the beginning and the ending of the entire Brand experience.
Thank you, Chris, for keeping the conversation mature, logical and based on constructive and logical analysis, unlike others....
*Thanks Chris for not throwing shade*
*Throws shade*
LOL Hope you're good bro.
@Chris Do Its funny you say you have problems with young people keeping it simple. I am a graphic designer in a corporate setting, I am 23, and I am always trying to push a more simple look because 1, it looks better, and 2 I think keeping it simple elevates who we are as a brand (by the way I work for a home builder who is on the higher end of homes) and I feel like I get a lot of push back from many people who want it to be more eye catching. Its actually kind of a fun part of my job trying to get to the simpler cleaner, more professional look when those around me want something flashy. But I agree with your design, it was beat into me into design school and I can't nor do I want to get away from it.
Love your content helps keep my design work elevated
thanks. you are wise beyond your years.
Loved the interaction. Love Chris' hat too. What's the font type on the hat though? Looks cute.
Helvetica. It’s from the type Directors Club
@@thefutur Thank you.❤️
@@thefutur Thank you.
I have fallen into a dark hole on TH-cam: Graphic Design videos. 😂😂😂😂 This is my new favorite channel!! #FutureGraphicDesigner
Chris Do making so much sense. The man and woman in the interview are like a case study for how the average client will be for 98% of people who choose to work in design. Most of your clients will have strong opinions without being able to articulate anything useful or objective about what informs those opinions. "It’s just not strong" (translation: I have this opinion and design is really only about aesthetic opinions so my opinion is equally weighted to all other opinions.) Even designers are nightmare clients lol.
I agree with you Chris that simplicity is the most powerful design aspect.
but how can I have the taste to differentiate simple great design from usual and normal?
I love how honest and open Aaron is about his opinion.
There are a few rules I live by when designing a logo.
1) Always design logos in black and white first.
2) Make sure the logo scales without losing detail.
3) Be aware of trends but design logos from a timeless aspect and dont lock a company into one product category.
Recently, I was designing a logo for a craft beer crowdfunding app. The logo concept I came up with gave the company the ability to expand into other product categories without having to do an entire logo re-design.
good rules to live by
im really really struggling on my first job. Im a young graphic designer who's tasked to do a logo on my first day at an agency. I constantly getting rejected by my art director saying obvious thing and sorts. I don't need cool visuals. i need a solid foundation of concept and thats all that it tooks. i need to refresh my mind and think bigger and contextual. the futur has helped me understanding this grand concept of design. Thank you so much
(Most) clients don't realize what they're paying you for is insight, not just production. Often I meet clients in the TV production biz that don't know what they want, and rather than trusting you to use your artistic insight/experience, they push for an idea that you KNOW isn't going to be effective. Sometimes you have to just let their terrible idea guide the process, do the thing, and let them fail.
[As long as you fight for a quality product, I say you're still an artist.]
Man, I'm just two days into your program, Dude you are sick
Your numbers are showing the movement and revolutionary methods
You're are so right, teaching others what you know makes you a higher being. Ultimate consciousness
I've never believed in anything I've seen on you tube. Now I know I was wrong.
wow! welcome to the channel. hope we renewed your faith in humanity a little.
People in my area where i live also generally dont understand that a logo is not an emblem, so what Chris said about fighting an uphill battle, i have to fight that AND trying to explain to them what will work and what wont.
fight the good fight. no that you are not alone in this though.
I always give my very best to explain to my client the ins and outs of every single move i've made and why. It helps them be more confident and i've learned that from this channel. What's the superlative of best? Bestest? That's you.
I personally think another thing that makes a logo great is the success of the company, I've spent a lot of time changing my logo because I was comparing it to already established companies.
The Jijibaba logo looks like there's 3 stick people side by side with the one in the middle being the tallest, it's like the logo is telling me the company is people friendly
that was by design. Astrid Starvo presented this logo and talked about the small modifications to make it what it is.
Oh, okay. I need to do research on Astrid
I love the symmetry in the logo as well. You have the three dots of the "iji" on one line, then the negative circles in the "baba", not to mention the name itself is "symmetrical" as well, so the logo kind of emphasises that.
Yes. Community. Togetherness. They look like the pieces in the board game, Life. I don't know if adding color for the i's and the small j may have not made your eyes go cross-eyed, but all one color makes it cohesive and shows equality within the community. Visually, it might have made it less jumbled, though.
I think they felt the logo is not unique. Chris points out simplicity which is really true, and I think they would agree with him with that. It's just that they have used words that looked like their looking for a flashy logo. Just a misunderstanding/ misuse of words, I think. Overall great video!!
City Steel is a great logo. If it is a software/app development website... Not if you are an steel mill /iron ore company...that is the problem with this logo.
This was by far the best logo from the entire roundup. Your coworker should surley know better than clients out there who can’t separate the logo from the entire marketing around an established brand.
they were playing a role-to challenge me. they did it perfectly.
I’m not a designer at all, but from my humble perspective as someone that those logos are meant to work on, the city steel one doesn’t do it for me. It’s looks generic and boring. Which isn’t a bad thing in of itself. But because it looks like a million other logos, if I see that c somewhere I won’t think, “oh that city steel construction company”. Compared to Apple’s logo which is as simple as possible, but I know immediately as Apple. Obviously it might be because when I see an apple I think “apple”, but I think my point still stands.
Loving the debate going on between each other
Chris nailed it. Timeless simplicity is always an uphill battle with clients, which can be frustrating. But I'm going to use the bell bottom analogy next time for sure :-)
bkre8ive i believe that there's a fashion, girls clothing, company that uses a bell bottoms logo. A girl wearing bell bottoms. I forget the name, though. It's a recent, trendy type store. I may be wrong, but I recall seeing that logo.
I really like the City Steel logo; the typeface is kind of reminiscent of steel girders.
Only thing I'd be curious to try is to maybe move the name to the rh side of the icon to see what it looks like over two lines. Then maybe seperate it from the icon slightly using a line the same thickness as the gaps.
It's all a maybe and pretty subjective though. It looks great regardless :)
Good logos look clean and reflect the essence of an entity. Great logos do all of that while also surprising and delighting the viewer. The best logos in my opinion produce an "aha" moment where the viewer notices something they didn't at first (think FedEx arrow). When design surprises it's like a "smile in the mind (good book btw)." I think that may be what was missing from the logo discussed up here. It was a clean, solid and effective logo, but it lacked some cleverness that adds an extra layer of visual storytelling. I did like the typographic changes though. Just think the icon was a few steps from being a 100% refined.
this was a good back and forth. really appreciated the kids initial rejection and eventual on boarding with the chosen logo.
Right on, Chris! From one designer to another, thanks for your wisdom.
Thank you
It is actually frustrating that I have to learn design to explain what kind of logo I want. This guy nailed it.
It's a super interesting debate. It is the duel between functionalism and expressionism. Two schools of thought about the role of design. For my part, I am very attached to the thought developed by the Bauhaus "form follows function." I think that we live in an era of visual overload and that the role of the designer is to make the world more simple and clear. Responding to a specific problem to improve people's lives. The logo should not express emotions, art can. Are we artists? I do not think so. :) Thank you The futur, best from France 🇫🇷
City Steel logo feels strong and solid. The shape and the color of the strokes resemble the H-beams, which are quite clever in my opinion. However, the kerning on the "STEEL" looks a bit inconsistent with the "CITY", and despite the clever details the overall outcome looks a bit generic.
What do you think? Is the Pixel & Bracket mark simple enough? ;)
yeah
The Futur While designning, I think we should focus more on clearity than on simplicity. What do you think ?
simplicity and clarity go hand in hand most of the time, however there is stuff like oversimplifying to the point the message does get lost. So you have to consider if its good simple or bad simple
ManuFracture acc to me the very simple logo is nike!
.)
Huge fan of Chris’s expression at 4:57
Yes simplicity is great. You're totally right about not pushing for trends or creating something crazy to "wow" someone. However I think in the case of this particular logo, the other guy has a good point. The "C" icon is fine but it isn't anything spectacular. We can all find 1000's of icons like this one on dribbble or IG right now. They're well done and there's nothing wrong with them. I think they're alluding to application because application helps to tell the story of the brand. The Nike logo is visually fantastic because of it's simplicity but it wouldn't be relevant at all without the story. I think it's pretty lame to look at a logo and be condescending towards critiques by saying "young designers want this and that" without recognizing and talking through why they may want that. Again, simplicity is great and the logo is well done. That doesn't mean it's free from critique and possibly not the right choice for a company.
guys, have you been to a construction site? piles(pattern) of solid semi rusty(orangy color) steel bars, pipes, columns, etc? i see that in the logo. though i am not sure if that's one of their services but yah, in a glimpse, the logo made sense to me quickly. make it look like a C then its great! so i believe the City Steel logo is done great. it is not boring, i think it's smart. if i were a kckss brand designer for the same type of company, maybe i too would end up with the same feel and which is different from the logos of other industries, like fashion. you are awesome Chris :)
Chico Christie Pace the logo reminded me of steel rebar and how it’s woven into concrete to make it stronger.
Bell bottoms and pigtails would make a great logo . . . which is probably what my nightmare will be tonight.
I have long loved what Antoine Marie Jean-Baptiste Roger, comte de Saint-Exupéry wrote in "Wind, Sand, and Stars"-"It seems that perfection is attained not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing more to remove."
I agree with you. Logos are supposed to be timeless and simple. It should be timeless, simple but also designed purposefully, having some subtle tie in with the concept. Also keep in mind for it to be clean, graceful and polished so that when it's printed on smaller dimensions such as a namecard, it's readable with ease, as well as being easily optimised on mobile. A logo doesn't have to be too literal either, a little subtlety goes a long way. What's important is you created an easy to recognise 'face 'to your brand. A brand is not a logo. A logo is part of a brand. That's easily the simplest mistake for young designers (i have been a victim as well). Also, that checkered shirt dude seems arrogant lol.
I use this fashion example. There are fashion trends that change over time, just like there are design trends that change over time. But a good logo is like a white t-shirt and black leather jacket. James Dean looked good in it. John Travolta looked good in it. Michael Jackson looked good in it. A random guy walking on the street looks good in it. And a guy wearing it fifty years from now will look good. Simple is timeless.
timeless design never shows its age.
I can agree about the speaking part about design. The “city” logo what Chris showed us it’s not good one. Symbol and type are good separately because they are so different. If you choose the C from the typeface and create the symbol with it, it will fits together like one piece.
How can we decide what's best for our client? Like, when should I use just the wordmark with small modifications, like all of the logos shown here; or go with a pictorial mark? Would I be able to always design just a wordmark? I don't really know what criteria I should use for these decisions. Also, I find really hard to charge a lot for a wordmark logo. I know it's not just about typing it, but clients don't usually understand that. Thank you.
simptius your presentation explaining that to your client is where you're lacking. Especially explaining why your logo works for their brand and models their product. That simplicity has just as much worth as having some decorative, but not as memorable, logo. Therefore, your invoice is justifiable. However, don't say that. Imply that. Also, remember to KISS. That is what all marketing people should remember as the number one rule when it comes to designing a company Logo. Slogan. Mark. Function. Product. Simplicity is key and vital to a company's market recognition. It saves on costs, too. Letters and Colors, the use and number of different ones, affect the costs and bloat the budget. So, it should be considered when discussing costs of materials, like business cards, brochures, etc. Nowadays with the Online world, it's not as costly, but those types of marketing swag still exist.
I dig the conversation of the video, and I agree with some restraint being elegant. Though I am not sold on the city steel text. I'd drop the space between city and steel. The two words wouldn't be confusing when mashed together. In doing so the text could be centered to the logo without it feeling lopsided.
Love these videos, thanks for doing them and starting these conversations.
I think it's a pretty good design, but wonder if it could be simplified even more by taking away the negative cuts and then slightly modifying the shape. Great points and thanks for the video :)
it gets pretty subjective at this point. the overall point was that simpler is better and more valuable. it was simple enough for me.
Good to know. Thanks for the insight.
At the end of the day, it's a judgement call between representing what the client likes, and representing their product(s) or service(s).
So I don't believe it's always fair to push back as a designer unless there's a technical issue.
It's important to put weight behind the decisions of the client, simply because I'm not the customer, and it's better the client gets something they're confident in without needing to manipulate their thinking, because that can affect the quality of their service.
And branding, even for massive franchises can and do change/evolve alongside the businesses, it's not something that has to be stuck with forever.
Is there a full version of this talk? If it's in the podcast, then I probably haven't gotten to that point yet lol (just finished Listening through Melinda's series).
there is a full version somewhere on our youtube channel.
@@thefutur sweet! I'll get to it as I keep digging. Thanks!
I kinda feel like your friend was saying that the logo is great but because logos aren't mindblowing things to begin with, there's nothing to gush about - even when looking at the best logos on earth one never fawns over it. They are more like a star in a constellation. An individual star isn't particularly interesting inside of a constellation, but the image that all the stars create together makes or breaks your opinion of the constellation. In this case, the company brand.
City steel could just be the segments of the C without the double stripe. It could even be a more closed C. I feel there's too much going on in it to be instantly recogniseable
I must say, and I am sorry if sounding more of a bad mouth, but I feel that the kerning is way off... It does not seem «the same» throughout the logo. I do like the cube and even the font choice seems to keep up the same «graphic line» of the cube above. However, it does not feel right. For example, too much space on the «steel» word, and too little between some characters on the «city» word, in every single kerned pair, «ci», «it» and «ty». If we compare it to the «steel» word, because, perhaps, of the amount of positive space each letter uses, they seem way too tight but placed appart from each other... And then, because of the optical way the word «steel» ends, with a «L», the box seems off balanced... If this was supposed to be done either to keep it center aligned geometrically, or optically disbalanced, it should've been assumed so that it didn't feel kind of off... Perhaps this is just me, and I appologize if someone might feel annoyed by my comment.
This still seems a good logo. I just get a bit picky regarding some stuff... Truly sorry!
this was more a debate out the simplicity of a mark not if this was perfect. but you are probably right. refinements can be made.
Steel should be bolder, so it fits being bigger. Signifies strength. Where City is tighter. More like a city is. Scrunched space. Yes, it may look off, alignment-wise. Which I did notice, too. But, it worked for the reasons I mentioned above. I'm not sure if that's what Chris was going for, but that's the impression I got after the initial alignment "offness". Logos don't have to always be aligned to work.
Association is what people often use or don't realize they use to determine what's cool or luxurious. From a design perspective, there are sensibilities that determine the feeling of a logo, a logo that evokes a specific emotion is usually based on the characteristics of the product or service it represents.
Logos are ambiguous and should be kept simple so they can be tailored properly, as Paul Rand said: “Design is so simple, that's why it's so complicated.”
I think that City Logo is wicked lol, I agree 100% Chris Do and wicked hat.
Yea, All im saying is that everything the company is and does influences how we see the logo.
Absolutely.
Phillip J. Clayton evoking an emotion is gold. If you can do that in a logo or slogan, and your client recognizes it, and its backed up by focus group results, you're looking at a very nice paycheck. Simple, yet explicit, and evocative. Golden!
It's really tough to exercise restraint when making a logo, especially when your boss/client is really pushing for something that has a "story" or a more literal icon. How can we, as a community, build more confidence in our client base to trust a simpler , stronger logo?
Liam Andrew Cura show them examples of large companies with simple logos and explain why it works
ask them about the most valuable brands in the world.
The C is the best part. Nothing wrong wth it at all. It's very well crafted.
The bell bottoms remark is a very good point. Do you want your brand represented in bell bottoms, or a good suit? A good suit is simple, elegant, and timeless. It works for pretty much everything. I like that City Steel logo because it's strong, simple, and it can work in a variety of configurations and applications for print, product, web, etc.
Chris, the first thing I noticed is the Slab-serif I creates an steel I-beam silhouette as used in construction and was a smart move! Love the logotype, not a fan of the C mark used in the lockup, that could have been better designed.
I really needed those tips right now. Thanks so much Chris!
I want a part 2 of this debate with young and more mature designers.
maybe we can make this happen.
Thx u truly r amazing to make this video (though at 1st I'm confused why y'all talkimg about the steel logo). Just to point out though, rather than focusing on making simple or complex or beautiful or whatever it is for the logo, it is better to see what client's logo is about and using straight point of what it means in picture. Afterall, logo is only like an identity of company. A few words should have described it in 1 simple picture.
Still though I assume this video is about the power of "simplecity" of logo.
Its not about winning, its about understand concepts and people to arrive at a good design.
This time I agree with Aaron it`s solid but not amazing, but I do think non designers tend to put the value of a design based on it`s brand recognition which you can not do with a fresh made new logo.
I do think there is an oversimplification trend coming around where designers are using the logo "accessories" to make their logo seem cool and they lose focus on the logo form itself. The quality in being simple is much harder than it looks. I think the City Steel company looks fine but I'm very bothered by the slab letter 'i' though. The colours are almost the only form of character allowed in that design.
The Jijibaba logo looks almost like people in the -iji- part which is a near, subtle effect of the font selection
I think that was the intention.
Who were the two voices with Chris on fist minutes? Let Chris finish and then argue back. Chris isnt even raising his voice.
orangewallet56 that’s aaron and Molly.
FINALLY SOMEONE STATES THIS, THANK YOU CHRIS!
You're very welcome.
Perfect point. It's all about looking timeless. 👌
Some solid points. Love Dieter Rams! Another great example of a timeless simple logo is Crate & Barrel. Simple is powerful.
simple, memorable, timeless. not tricky or flashy.
It's 9am in Syd i'm listening to this video and turn the volume up high cause Chris' voice was quite low, then Aaron came in at 0:33 and scared the crap outta me lol.
Agree with the simplicity of these logos though trying to explain to clients that it's not a "2 min logo" and that using timeless typefaces are essential in creating a strong brand identity is the BIGGEST challenge.
CITY STEEL, I feel the kerning needs to be fixed (widen) between the C&I, otherwise it is a good solid logo, I agree with Chris.
City Steel logo: the orange colour and the design of the C mark is meant to be like steel beams, connecting to each other, like steel beams would.
Hassan Horack that's the image I got immediately.
I’m building a website and trying to come up with a logo for it. It’s not easy to come up with something that looks interesting but is also simple and clean.
I really like the way you think, but I think CITY STEEL Misses the mark, if the companies name is two words city steel, I think that somehow the. S needs to be incorporated, and possibly may be in another color, if it does not make it too busy
And perhaps something like a piece of steel that is connecting the two letters
Then the wording city steel I think should be in a silver or a chrome color
In my humble opinion 🙏
And yes I like your hat, and how the t Plays into the rest of the word
"You pay me because i'm gonna use good judgement and taste, to give you something that gonna last." OH YES
The Icon of the City Cell logo has some inconstancies. the corners, some of them rounded, the other don't. The overlapping is weird.
the orange color is like corten metal color and looks like beam of metal, i would darken the I and the double e letters to look like in a steel shade color, it is a good logo
I think Chris misunderstood him, he was talking about how the 3D cubes are often overused today in logos and that alone makes it dull. Especially the letter "C" incorporated into a cube.
Excellent advice. This is stuff we as designers know, but potential clients really fight and say "make it pop". Sorry M'am, I can't make anything pop.
Solid. I can't help but feel that the 'C' icon needs to move right to be visually balanced.
i dont care if its “remembered” or not. you make a good product or provide a great service, people WILL remember you. having an intricate design for a logo is better because it says the company has taste and isnt bland or boring. yall should watch jontrons video on logos. he says it well.
So if what you make isn’t remembered, it’s forgettable?
I subscribed u r channel ..because i like u r experience .......
You can still have a simple logo that ends up being dated. The jiiibaba logo looks dated because of the font used. That’s why the younger guy had such an adverse reaction to it. The logo looks like it was made in the early 2000s and is due for a font update. It’s bulky, thick, and goofy looking because of the unequal thickness on the “a”s and “b”s. Yes you should go for simple overall, but just because a font is simple doesn’t mean it will last the test of time; the jiiibaba example used is proof of that.
Also apparently it’s spelled jijibaba not jiiibaba but I couldn’t tell because there’s no hook to the j. If people can easily misread your logo thats another sign it’s not serving its purpose
I guess we will have to agree to disagree. Futura will not go out of style. it's been around for decades.
@@thefutur I agree Futura isn't out of style, I use it myself often for product presentations, but it's about the implementation. Nike, Supreme, MVMT and Red Bull all use the font to good effect, but the choice of Bold Futura wasn't flattering the the word Jijibaba with its unequal thicknesses. Just because a font will not go out of style and has been around for decades doesn't mean that you cannot use the font incorrectly. There's more to picking a font for a logo than just writing your word in a classic font. The logo could be cleaner if it followed Calvin Kline's example and was Light. They could also get away with Book or Medium if they wanted to be different from most fashion brands which are on the thinner side, but going all the way to Bold doesn't match the characterization of the fashion idea and aligns itself more with companies like Fedex, Cisco, Crayola, and Metlife who all use Futura Bold.
It is the struggle I am always faced with: how do I tell my client that this funky, modern and trendy looking idea of his is not going to work in the long term?
there's another video that we've done that address this.
The Futur Thanks for the reply. Would you link the video below?
The letter i with "serif" mentioned is an obvious reference to the cross section of an i-beam, the quintessential element of steel construction
Trying to catch up on all these episodes - 30 secs in, I am stunned how anyone can think that is boring
Can we just be thankful that the unique looking logos will forever stay like that and even if they changed, they will still be recognized?
I like your logo man I think it fits perfect for what it is, your mates sound main stream aha, a logo is nothing until a person/people make it something.