based takes, even if I don't agree with some (like the force yourself to code shit. I'd say if you need to just look for other career. Based nonetheless) I think the kids in the video, specially the second one, got the pressure of talking to too much people and felt the need to be responsible with what they say or something like that and just spit a bunch of generic shit. Not that what they are saying is completely wrong. Finding a job without a degree is borderline impossible in some places though. Not the US
I see what you mean about the "forcing" part and looking for another field. I should have explained better that I mean: You should force yourself on the days where you don't want to do it. And don't feel bad about not wanting to "code" sometimes, especially in the beginning. Even if you love coding, or anything really, there will be days on which you don't want to do it and that is totally normal.
@@Cakez77 ABC brother always be coding I need to be consistent to go to the swimming pool or to not fuck up my sleep schedule but I take pride on that if one week I don't code at all it is not a problem for me and because I have the passion i didn't *need* the consistency to become decent. I respect the hustle though, i just fear people don't follow their talent enough and think they can overcome anything with hard work, even when the talent and the passion are not there.
The self-taught debate is heavily influenced by US student debt, and if you ask me if the painful debt that some people claim to have is worth it, my answer may as well be "hell no". There are other countries where it is more like wasting time at worst instead of crippling your financial situation for decades. In that case you can look at what kind of learner you are. For some people, the structure of university works better than selftaught because that takes discipline, so much discipline. I went to a university of applied sciences. I learned lots of useful stuff. Did it teach me how to do my job? No. Because it could not. Within two years after graduation, the people i studied with had all gone into different fields, different jobs working with different tech. University could not have taught us to do 30+ different jobs. What can be expected from a graduate is the ability to think technically and be able to learn and use information given to them. Add a bit of programming in your free time and it's a good basis for an entry level job. I worked with people with and without a degree and people who did an apprenticeship. The source of education i less of a factor that the persons ability and desire to learn.
self learning is inefficient but college is insufficient. For some subjects if you go head first, it is hard to understand the terminology and you don't know where to get it. Is it better is college? yes but only because it is curated and someone else has done the job to create a plan which you can diverge from.
It's a red herring.. A generation of kids built what we now as the gaming industry bashing away on 8bit systems in the 80's with little more than will power and maybe a system reference manual.. There was no education available.
I taught myself c# (with a book) because I thought I'd be making games in Unity, but then I realized that I just like programming in general so I dropped unity. Now besides C# I know Rust, C, some C++, lua, and even some FASM assembly but I doubt I will ever work in IT, it seems so daunting and I'm afraid of making this hobby into a job.
Outsiders do have the assumption that inside of companies there's this incredibly high standard, especially if the companies are considered cool and do the cool stuff. Yes, some people are really amazing but the average programmer is just that, average and that works perfectly well. Because you can not have an industry that big with so many people working in it be built around everyone being a perfectly independently selfmotivated genius. There are structures for average and below average people do work in and there's structures for those who exceed that to become more. No idea how old you are and what you do right now, but don't let that fear keep you away from something that might make you happy and might make you good money.
Jokes on you, I spent my entire time at university programming so much so that I consistently didn't have time to learn anything for any non programming related courses, so I dropped out and just kept writing more code lmao
Like me in reverse lol. I spent all my time for 2 years after HS programming and studying CS topics, had a hard time getting a job, so I just went to scoop up a bachelors online and I'll be done with it in about 6 months. I am also profoundly uninformed about anything outside of computers, so I have been studying that stuff while working on my degree. But honestly, I would never have been able to learn properly if I went to school first, because in my experience problems are presented in such a contrived manner that all my motivation to apply myself and solve them dissappears. Learning how to build stuff first, then filling up those knowledge gaps just seems like a better way to learn. For people that are passionate about the topic at least. That usually is accompanied with a high amount of curiosity, so they'll ask the questions and research them on their own anyways.
"Just don't spend any money on education" it's like looking at a mirror :) One recommendation for you, is to work on another project half the time, that way it is easier to avoid scope creep
Online courses are good in the very beginning, to teach you most of the "best practices", but once you have taken "enough" stuff in, you should start experimenting yourself. I think that is the best way to learn. Some online courses, then start applying the learned and do that "hard phase", where you are constantly problem solving, how to make it work. it is very hard in the beginning, but slowly you start getting it. This method is much faster and better than just going to university. University is good option, if you want to focus on computers, but don't know your expertise and exact interest. It at least gives you a good base. But if you know what you want to do, there no need to go university. I personally took few online course IN XAMK University of applied sciences (total cost 120 euros). Instead of doing 3 years at school, I did 2 Unity courses and learned all the basic stuff in making a game(took total of 6 months). Before that I did some some quick online courses in C# etc.... Just to learn coding better. Once Unity became "too easy" and it was lacking in graphics. I wanted more challenge and switched to Unreal, because I always wanted to do game in 3D.
I think you are mostly correct, but I would change the first part. I've found very few online resources teach actually good best practices, instead they focus on things like OOP which are the opposite.
CS50 is hands down the best way to learn for beginners. You start with C and get to the point of creating your own data structures (hash tables, binary trees etc). Then you pivot to creating websites with SQL, Python and JavaScript. This is an incredible foundation for any job in the industry. Not to mention that the instructor is engaging and explains things very clearly
@@alexcampbell-black8543 I don't think this is possible. With only this course I can't get a job in my country I am afraid. I wish I could do that but they ask way more stuff than that.
The trick with jobs is to read at the job specification that says 'bachelors degree required' and then you ignore it and apply anyway.
Smart
I personally know someone who has multiple CS degrees who didn't know what lerp was.
based takes, even if I don't agree with some (like the force yourself to code shit. I'd say if you need to just look for other career. Based nonetheless)
I think the kids in the video, specially the second one, got the pressure of talking to too much people and felt the need to be responsible with what they say or something like that and just spit a bunch of generic shit. Not that what they are saying is completely wrong. Finding a job without a degree is borderline impossible in some places though. Not the US
I see what you mean about the "forcing" part and looking for another field. I should have explained better that I mean: You should force yourself on the days where you don't want to do it. And don't feel bad about not wanting to "code" sometimes, especially in the beginning. Even if you love coding, or anything really, there will be days on which you don't want to do it and that is totally normal.
@@Cakez77 ABC brother always be coding
I need to be consistent to go to the swimming pool or to not fuck up my sleep schedule but I take pride on that if one week I don't code at all it is not a problem for me and because I have the passion i didn't *need* the consistency to become decent. I respect the hustle though, i just fear people don't follow their talent enough and think they can overcome anything with hard work, even when the talent and the passion are not there.
The self-taught debate is heavily influenced by US student debt, and if you ask me if the painful debt that some people claim to have is worth it, my answer may as well be "hell no".
There are other countries where it is more like wasting time at worst instead of crippling your financial situation for decades. In that case you can look at what kind of learner you are. For some people, the structure of university works better than selftaught because that takes discipline, so much discipline.
I went to a university of applied sciences. I learned lots of useful stuff.
Did it teach me how to do my job? No.
Because it could not. Within two years after graduation, the people i studied with had all gone into different fields, different jobs working with different tech. University could not have taught us to do 30+ different jobs.
What can be expected from a graduate is the ability to think technically and be able to learn and use information given to them. Add a bit of programming in your free time and it's a good basis for an entry level job.
I worked with people with and without a degree and people who did an apprenticeship. The source of education i less of a factor that the persons ability and desire to learn.
self learning is inefficient but college is insufficient. For some subjects if you go head first, it is hard to understand the terminology and you don't know where to get it. Is it better is college? yes but only because it is curated and someone else has done the job to create a plan which you can diverge from.
It's a red herring.. A generation of kids built what we now as the gaming industry bashing away on 8bit systems in the 80's with little more than will power and maybe a system reference manual.. There was no education available.
So true. I think if everyone was still taught on these old systems they'd be an awful lot better programmers graduating.
@@lordofthe6string a lot fewer also
I taught myself c# (with a book) because I thought I'd be making games in Unity, but then I realized that I just like programming in general so I dropped unity. Now besides C# I know Rust, C, some C++, lua, and even some FASM assembly but I doubt I will ever work in IT, it seems so daunting and I'm afraid of making this hobby into a job.
Outsiders do have the assumption that inside of companies there's this incredibly high standard, especially if the companies are considered cool and do the cool stuff. Yes, some people are really amazing but the average programmer is just that, average and that works perfectly well. Because you can not have an industry that big with so many people working in it be built around everyone being a perfectly independently selfmotivated genius. There are structures for average and below average people do work in and there's structures for those who exceed that to become more.
No idea how old you are and what you do right now, but don't let that fear keep you away from something that might make you happy and might make you good money.
Jokes on you, I spent my entire time at university programming so much so that I consistently didn't have time to learn anything for any non programming related courses, so I dropped out and just kept writing more code lmao
Like me in reverse lol. I spent all my time for 2 years after HS programming and studying CS topics, had a hard time getting a job, so I just went to scoop up a bachelors online and I'll be done with it in about 6 months.
I am also profoundly uninformed about anything outside of computers, so I have been studying that stuff while working on my degree. But honestly, I would never have been able to learn properly if I went to school first, because in my experience problems are presented in such a contrived manner that all my motivation to apply myself and solve them dissappears.
Learning how to build stuff first, then filling up those knowledge gaps just seems like a better way to learn. For people that are passionate about the topic at least. That usually is accompanied with a high amount of curiosity, so they'll ask the questions and research them on their own anyways.
I have a Bachelor in Computer Science and a Master in Technology Management. I am an English teacher💀
HUH how did that happen wtf
Wrote too much python
"Just don't spend any money on education" it's like looking at a mirror :)
One recommendation for you, is to work on another project half the time, that way it is easier to avoid scope creep
Online courses are good in the very beginning, to teach you most of the "best practices", but once you have taken "enough" stuff in, you should start experimenting yourself. I think that is the best way to learn. Some online courses, then start applying the learned and do that "hard phase", where you are constantly problem solving, how to make it work. it is very hard in the beginning, but slowly you start getting it. This method is much faster and better than just going to university. University is good option, if you want to focus on computers, but don't know your expertise and exact interest. It at least gives you a good base. But if you know what you want to do, there no need to go university. I personally took few online course IN XAMK University of applied sciences (total cost 120 euros). Instead of doing 3 years at school, I did 2 Unity courses and learned all the basic stuff in making a game(took total of 6 months). Before that I did some some quick online courses in C# etc.... Just to learn coding better. Once Unity became "too easy" and it was lacking in graphics. I wanted more challenge and switched to Unreal, because I always wanted to do game in 3D.
I think you are mostly correct, but I would change the first part. I've found very few online resources teach actually good best practices, instead they focus on things like OOP which are the opposite.
CS50 is hands down the best way to learn for beginners. You start with C and get to the point of creating your own data structures (hash tables, binary trees etc). Then you pivot to creating websites with SQL, Python and JavaScript. This is an incredible foundation for any job in the industry. Not to mention that the instructor is engaging and explains things very clearly
And after that, what would you recommend? I would like to start by it and then have a list
@@dinifromthehood after that get a job. You will learn much faster when your livelihood depends on you doing it for 8 hours a day!
@@alexcampbell-black8543 I don't think this is possible. With only this course I can't get a job in my country I am afraid. I wish I could do that but they ask way more stuff than that.
In a normal IT University you should learn Mathemathics and Programming and teamwork a lot ... if you did not then sry but your Uni was a SCAM :)