Best way to avoid this is to only keep proof certified samsung batteries with proof battery monitoring system. UL or CSA. But also the user need to follow safety. Never overcharge, modify, increase or mess with capacity etc. Idiocy will result in battery fire which cannot be extinguished untill oxydation reaction is consumed.
If only all the D2C brands were using Samsung batteries. A lot of it is user error when it comes to battery fires. The ones I show in the video are from a vacation home. They left the batteries plugged in while they left for 2 weeks. Property management found them smoking. They’re incredibly lucky their house didn’t burn down.
If you dont want to sell an E-Bike so be it // but you will have very little sales when the rest of us want more E-Bikes and love them way more than the sweat machine of the old age
I think you’re misunderstanding the video. Insurance companies are telling bike shops by the 100s that they’re not allowed to sell, fix, or rent them. Not my choice. Please listen and comprehend the issues at hand.
Yup. It’s already happening in New York and California. Apartment complexes are outright banning them. It’s definitely going to leave a sour taste in a lot of people’s mouths once they realize they’ve invested 1000s of dollars in something that shouldn’t even been made available to the public in the first place.
Great Informative video! I ride a Tern GSD R14. I spent a lot of money because of the fully tested motor and battery systems. The bike comes with a 10 year drive train and frame warranty. Tern won’t sell to individual buyers just to help insure that the bike is set up properly.
Looks like Lectric has UL 2849 certification on a couple models, XPeak and Xpedition. It seems easy for these larger companies to afford certification with the high volume of bikes they're selling, the certification is only going to add a few dollars to the price, spread over tens of thousands of units sold.
Only on Lectrics new models going forward. Still 10s of thousands of bikes out there without it. It becomes a problem because those particular bikes won’t be allowed in apartments, homes, and shops once the regulations go through. UL certifications have to be tested every few years, so it will be a large ongoing cost for companies.
@@99knight99 but the electrical systems are not ul2849. The total system is what matters. You can have a certified battery and an incorrect controller paired with it. Does Lectric do that, I doubt it, but the electrical system as a whole needs to be tested.
I think they recently added the 'Certified to UL 2849' text to the web page for the Xpeak and Xpedition. It's possible they very recently got those certifications through. I was checking for the Xpedition certification about a month ago and I didn't see it on their website.
many hobbyists buy individual cells and build their own batteries. it's quite interesting but obviously poses a risk to headstrong individuals who lack the technical skill or knowledge to even attempt such a task
If you have the knowledge and skill to do it, that’s great. But why do we think it’s acceptable to flood the market with bikes with batteries with fake certifications?
hobby diy'ers are super niche. even rarer, that they catch fire. what you have now are cheap bikes built with components that haven't been tested together. most notable, any kind of regenerative charging or charging or discharging too fast for cheap cells. the use of recycled cells and components that don't get qc tested or calibrated is just playing the lottery. the testing solution doesn't need to be 100% effective to make a big difference. the diy hobbyists will be fine still doing their thing. they aren't likely to be bringing in their creations into bike shops anyway. not for trouble shooting the electronics.
The same thing happened in aviation many years ago already. Certain types of batteries are completely banned from even cargo aircraft. Li-ion batteries are considered dangerous goods, cargo aircraft only, when sending more than a couple in a box separate from devices. Phones and laptops with batteries are also considered dangerous goods when sending more than one in a package. Aircraft passengers can carry their laptops and phones on board with them, but just try to check your ebike or escooter as baggage. No UL certification will help in that case. You can't take or send an ebike on a plane, they are considered to be too dangerous.
My ebike battery is not allowed in the house....It is kept in a large cooler outside, covered and away from the house....At the bottom of the cooler there is a fixture with a 25 watt light bulb. The battery sits on a piece of wood propped up above the light. The light is wired through the drain hole so i can close the lid or opened slightly to vent...I get a 40 degree temp boost from the bulb... If its 10 degees outside the battery is a toasty 50 degrees.....PERFECT!!! and i can sleep easy knowing that my house is not going to burn down.
While a good policy. It’s tough. We have a lot of these D2C e-bikes coming in for basic service. I don’t want to be the guy that has to tell someone I can’t fix your tube.
And now that California wants to put to force people to get insurance on them, it's going to expand the problem more and raise the cost of the bikes. Because the companies will see that they can pass a higher cost for doing nothing go to the consumer.
I think at some point CPSC will require the brands to have proper certifications and this will help consumers, shops, and insurance companies out tremendously. At this point, it’s only a recommendation. Aventon is the only D2C brand that has really taken any initiative in becoming compliant for the UL standards.
This is what you get when consumers buy cheap Chinese ebikes. I have 6 friends who all ride Specialized mountain ebikes, and we've never had any issues, nor have we heard of any.
The consumer is uneducated, which sucks. $1500 for the average person for a shit Chinese e-bike is a lot of money. They just don’t understand that $1500 is cheap. They don’t understand the value in going with a reputable brand until they’re SOL.
One wouldn't expect statistically that out of six people, one would have experienced a battery fire, that would be an incredibly high rate. Meaningful data would be all ebikes sold by specialized (if such data is a available of course). That Brose motor on your bike might just also be made in china :)
@@PRH123 given the quantity of cheap bikes sold vs the expensive 'brand' bikes mentioned. i bet the failure rate is excellent. you just aren't sure if you'll be the unlucky one. mostly because there is no real qc testing for the cheap stuff. that said, 1500 isn't cheap. 4000+ for a bike that has a tiny motor and weak 36v 17ah battery is too much. bikes shouldn't cost that much to build, they're bikes. attaching a battery and motor to a huffy is basically all the general public wants. nobody cares about the name of the fork or drivetrain or brand of tires. it's not that they're stupid. it's that it doesn't matter to them. none of those things need to be high quality or cutting edge to be more than capable to do the job. as anyone who buys from Amazon knows.., the issue here is the lottery we all play with items out of China that don't even get internally QC tested...much less by a third party. why would they spend the money to test? it's not like they will be taking the returns. some other company is branding the stuff and absorbing that role. and they rarely care because they're not looking to build a reputation and real company brand. most are simple pump and dump resellers. easily creating a new name for their business as needed.
They have a place in the market, I’m not here to bash e-bikes in general. Aren’t “motorized vehicles” required to have licensure to operate on a public road way? There’s just a lot of catching up to do with laws and regulations.
I think they should be, over a certain power / weight / speed, as they cease being bicycles and become motor vehicles. This is the standard in many EU countries, over 250 watts and 20-25 kph, it's not an ebike anymore, it's a vehicle.
It’s a sad reality and something that most consumers are unaware of until their bike needs service. Ebikes are currently in the realm of planned obsolescence. You’re supposed to have it for a year or two (if you get more use, great) but then replace it when it inevitably breaks down.
I'll have to talk to my friend about this topic. He's the store manager of the local Trek shop. I have a direct to consumer ebike, a Troxus Explorer. It's not certified but at least it uses Samsung cells. I was not willing to buy an ebike without name brand cells. I believe it's a quality bike from having owned it 10 months and 1800 miles. Am I worried about a battery fire? Not really.
Having a good quality, reputable battery is so important. I bet if you called up customer service at just about any D2C brand and asked what battery they use, they probably wouldn’t even know. I’m glad you have so many happy miles on your bike! 🤘
Fires are from irresponsible owners overcharging them and not from most manufacturers and to bash E-Bikes is to be stuck in the past /// E-Bikes are the best way to see the world
for bike shops, why not just have a rule where the owner brings in the bike without the battery and the shop services the bike without power? as for homes and insurance... my home has a natural gas line, which is many times more dangerous than a battery. causes way more fires per capita than houses with batteries but they have no problem insuring it. so i don't see ebike batteries hurting private homes insurance. it's not hard to remove the risk from an ebike. it's literally removable.
Your gas lines are checked and inspected at the time the home was built. So there is some form of “certification” by the building and code inspectors. We have a lot of bikes comes in that need electrical issues diagnosed. We change out a lot of brakes, pads and rotors on e-bikes, we need the power to bed in brakes and make sure the motor kill switches work. We’re working with our insurance for a practical solution, we’ll see what they say.
@@Jeff_Rey if it has pedals, you don't need battery power to do everything you do in amish bikes. had includes all the mechanical operations common to a bike. the brakes aren't electronic run off the battery, and the pedals work without it installed. chain moves and all that. diagnosing electrical issues is the only thing a battery is needed for. but even that could be something you choose not to support if your place isn't setup to safely do it. would be better than turning them away entirely.
@@Jeff_Rey it'll take a little longer, but the bike isn't 80lbs without the 10+ lb battery in it and the increased mass means you don't have to get it up to higher speeds to properly bed the brakes the same as a bike that's 20+lbs lighter. for an option that's 100% safe that lets you get what needs to be done, done. seems like an easy first step to make the liability police happy until something more convenient is setup.
These chinese e-bikes companies do not care about repairing them. Especially in the foreign markets. They want to sell as much e-bikes as they can before the laws catch up to them! It is obviously unfair competition, they know it, we know it (provided a bit of research has been done). Not many honest videos about this atm, very sus imho but hey thanks for going against the trend!
Appreciate the comment! I own and run a bike shop day to day and work with a lot of these D2C brands to perform repairs. It’s wild some of the stuff we’re seeing. And the customer is upset because they spent $1500 on something that had a lifespan of 2 years before it’s cost prohibitive to fix it.
I have a Bezior from E bay. It shorted and burned a wire in half. The controller was just stuffed loosely in a metal box that was the frame backbone. The connections were not insulated at all.
@@Jeff_Rey You should deffo make content on some of these crazy stories you see in your shop. I guarantee you a lot of people would want to see that, especially me, it'll pbly be super successful! Just my grain of salt btw, I suscribed to your channel, hope to see more good stuff :p take care
Best way to avoid this is to only keep proof certified samsung batteries with proof battery monitoring system. UL or CSA.
But also the user need to follow safety. Never overcharge, modify, increase or mess with capacity etc. Idiocy will result in battery fire which cannot be extinguished untill oxydation reaction is consumed.
If only all the D2C brands were using Samsung batteries. A lot of it is user error when it comes to battery fires. The ones I show in the video are from a vacation home. They left the batteries plugged in while they left for 2 weeks. Property management found them smoking. They’re incredibly lucky their house didn’t burn down.
or LG
If you dont want to sell an E-Bike so be it // but you will have very little sales when the rest of us want more E-Bikes and love them way more than the sweat machine of the old age
I think you’re misunderstanding the video. Insurance companies are telling bike shops by the 100s that they’re not allowed to sell, fix, or rent them. Not my choice. Please listen and comprehend the issues at hand.
Next shoe to drop is home owners will not be able to get fire insurance if they own an ebike. The ebike industry brought this upon themselves.
Yup. It’s already happening in New York and California. Apartment complexes are outright banning them. It’s definitely going to leave a sour taste in a lot of people’s mouths once they realize they’ve invested 1000s of dollars in something that shouldn’t even been made available to the public in the first place.
Great Informative video!
I ride a Tern GSD R14. I spent a lot of money because of the fully tested motor and battery systems. The bike comes with a 10 year drive train and frame warranty. Tern won’t sell to individual buyers just to help insure that the bike is set up properly.
Now that is how it should be done. Good job on doing some research who’re buying!
So I guess we're back to just human power only or maybe gas engine power assisted bikes. What gas engine motor would you recommend?
I wouldn’t. Frames aren’t built to handle the additional weight and torque of a motor. You need a bike frame designed around a motor.
Looks like Lectric has UL 2849 certification on a couple models, XPeak and Xpedition. It seems easy for these larger companies to afford certification with the high volume of bikes they're selling, the certification is only going to add a few dollars to the price, spread over tens of thousands of units sold.
Only on Lectrics new models going forward. Still 10s of thousands of bikes out there without it. It becomes a problem because those particular bikes won’t be allowed in apartments, homes, and shops once the regulations go through. UL certifications have to be tested every few years, so it will be a large ongoing cost for companies.
@@Jeff_Rey And ALL their batteries are UL 2271
@@99knight99 but the electrical systems are not ul2849. The total system is what matters. You can have a certified battery and an incorrect controller paired with it. Does Lectric do that, I doubt it, but the electrical system as a whole needs to be tested.
i have two lectric xpeaks. neither has a ul label anywhere on the bikes or components. only the charger has a ul label.
I think they recently added the 'Certified to UL 2849' text to the web page for the Xpeak and Xpedition. It's possible they very recently got those certifications through. I was checking for the Xpedition certification about a month ago and I didn't see it on their website.
many hobbyists buy individual cells and build their own batteries. it's quite interesting but obviously poses a risk to headstrong individuals who lack the technical skill or knowledge to even attempt such a task
If you have the knowledge and skill to do it, that’s great. But why do we think it’s acceptable to flood the market with bikes with batteries with fake certifications?
@@Jeff_Rey i was posing a possible explanation to the rise in ebike battery fires.
hobby diy'ers are super niche. even rarer, that they catch fire.
what you have now are cheap bikes built with components that haven't been tested together. most notable, any kind of regenerative charging or charging or discharging too fast for cheap cells.
the use of recycled cells and components that don't get qc tested or calibrated is just playing the lottery.
the testing solution doesn't need to be 100% effective to make a big difference. the diy hobbyists will be fine still doing their thing. they aren't likely to be bringing in their creations into bike shops anyway. not for trouble shooting the electronics.
The same thing happened in aviation many years ago already. Certain types of batteries are completely banned from even cargo aircraft. Li-ion batteries are considered dangerous goods, cargo aircraft only, when sending more than a couple in a box separate from devices. Phones and laptops with batteries are also considered dangerous goods when sending more than one in a package.
Aircraft passengers can carry their laptops and phones on board with them, but just try to check your ebike or escooter as baggage. No UL certification will help in that case. You can't take or send an ebike on a plane, they are considered to be too dangerous.
I found this out the hard way 😂. Had a battery bank phone charger in my checked luggage. My bag was searched and the power bank was removed.
Acoustic bikes for life.
That’s what I’m saying!
Acoustic bikes? No that's a new one. I've only heard them be called analog bikes.
Horse drivers said automobiles are for nancy boys then they died, hope soon ebike with roof and charge pedaling
My ebike battery is not allowed in the house....It is kept in a large cooler outside, covered and away from the house....At the bottom of the cooler there is a fixture with a 25 watt light bulb. The battery sits on a piece of wood propped up above the light. The light is wired through the drain hole so i can close the lid or opened slightly to vent...I get a 40 degree temp boost from the bulb... If its 10 degees outside the battery is a toasty 50 degrees.....PERFECT!!! and i can sleep easy knowing that my house is not going to burn down.
Seems excessive, but if it works it works! 🤷♂️
Our policy has been that we only work on E-Bikes that we sell, which are al UL tested.
While a good policy. It’s tough. We have a lot of these D2C e-bikes coming in for basic service. I don’t want to be the guy that has to tell someone I can’t fix your tube.
store the bike batteries in a outdoor building away from the main building might help get around some of these laws.
If only we weren’t in the middle of a city 😔
And now that California wants to put to force people to get insurance on them, it's going to expand the problem more and raise the cost of the bikes. Because the companies will see that they can pass a higher cost for doing nothing go to the consumer.
I think at some point CPSC will require the brands to have proper certifications and this will help consumers, shops, and insurance companies out tremendously. At this point, it’s only a recommendation. Aventon is the only D2C brand that has really taken any initiative in becoming compliant for the UL standards.
This is what you get when consumers buy cheap Chinese ebikes. I have 6 friends who all ride Specialized mountain ebikes, and we've never had any issues, nor have we heard of any.
The consumer is uneducated, which sucks. $1500 for the average person for a shit Chinese e-bike is a lot of money. They just don’t understand that $1500 is cheap. They don’t understand the value in going with a reputable brand until they’re SOL.
One wouldn't expect statistically that out of six people, one would have experienced a battery fire, that would be an incredibly high rate. Meaningful data would be all ebikes sold by specialized (if such data is a available of course).
That Brose motor on your bike might just also be made in china :)
@@Jeff_Rey Specialized only has one bike/battery (Haul) that's even UL 2271 listed.....
@@PRH123 given the quantity of cheap bikes sold vs the expensive 'brand' bikes mentioned. i bet the failure rate is excellent. you just aren't sure if you'll be the unlucky one.
mostly because there is no real qc testing for the cheap stuff.
that said, 1500 isn't cheap. 4000+ for a bike that has a tiny motor and weak 36v 17ah battery is too much. bikes shouldn't cost that much to build, they're bikes. attaching a battery and motor to a huffy is basically all the general public wants. nobody cares about the name of the fork or drivetrain or brand of tires. it's not that they're stupid. it's that it doesn't matter to them. none of those things need to be high quality or cutting edge to be more than capable to do the job.
as anyone who buys from Amazon knows.., the issue here is the lottery we all play with items out of China that don't even get internally QC tested...much less by a third party. why would they spend the money to test? it's not like they will be taking the returns. some other company is branding the stuff and absorbing that role. and they rarely care because they're not looking to build a reputation and real company brand. most are simple pump and dump resellers. easily creating a new name for their business as needed.
the sky is falling...the sky is falling........
I’m sorry the largest insurance provider for bike shops in the United States canceling 1000s of policies is the sky falling. Fuck out here.
New Jersey wants to require license and insurance on e bikes. They are more trouble than they are worth
They have a place in the market, I’m not here to bash e-bikes in general. Aren’t “motorized vehicles” required to have licensure to operate on a public road way? There’s just a lot of catching up to do with laws and regulations.
I think they should be, over a certain power / weight / speed, as they cease being bicycles and become motor vehicles. This is the standard in many EU countries, over 250 watts and 20-25 kph, it's not an ebike anymore, it's a vehicle.
@@PRH123 we’ll probably get to that point in the US. Just a matter of time.
I had an inoperative E bike and took it to every bike shop in Des Moines Iowa. They would not take it in the door because of fire risk.
It’s a sad reality and something that most consumers are unaware of until their bike needs service. Ebikes are currently in the realm of planned obsolescence. You’re supposed to have it for a year or two (if you get more use, great) but then replace it when it inevitably breaks down.
Not good ... People are going get screwed for service...
Yup. Very unfortunate
I'll have to talk to my friend about this topic. He's the store manager of the local Trek shop. I have a direct to consumer ebike, a Troxus Explorer. It's not certified but at least it uses Samsung cells. I was not willing to buy an ebike without name brand cells. I believe it's a quality bike from having owned it 10 months and 1800 miles. Am I worried about a battery fire? Not really.
Having a good quality, reputable battery is so important. I bet if you called up customer service at just about any D2C brand and asked what battery they use, they probably wouldn’t even know. I’m glad you have so many happy miles on your bike! 🤘
@@Jeff_Rey Cheers Jeff!
I’m pretty sure tern has all the certifications aswell
I’ll have to check them out. 👍
Fires are from irresponsible owners overcharging them and not from most manufacturers and to bash E-Bikes is to be stuck in the past /// E-Bikes are the best way to see the world
Who is bashing them? I own one…
for bike shops, why not just have a rule where the owner brings in the bike without the battery and the shop services the bike without power?
as for homes and insurance... my home has a natural gas line, which is many times more dangerous than a battery. causes way more fires per capita than houses with batteries but they have no problem insuring it. so i don't see ebike batteries hurting private homes insurance.
it's not hard to remove the risk from an ebike. it's literally removable.
Your gas lines are checked and inspected at the time the home was built. So there is some form of “certification” by the building and code inspectors.
We have a lot of bikes comes in that need electrical issues diagnosed. We change out a lot of brakes, pads and rotors on e-bikes, we need the power to bed in brakes and make sure the motor kill switches work. We’re working with our insurance for a practical solution, we’ll see what they say.
@@Jeff_Rey if it has pedals, you don't need battery power to do everything you do in amish bikes. had includes all the mechanical operations common to a bike. the brakes aren't electronic run off the battery, and the pedals work without it installed. chain moves and all that.
diagnosing electrical issues is the only thing a battery is needed for. but even that could be something you choose not to support if your place isn't setup to safely do it.
would be better than turning them away entirely.
@@cellsafemode I guess you haven’t had to bed in brakes on a 85lb bike with no gearing. Not quick or easy.
@@Jeff_Rey it'll take a little longer, but the bike isn't 80lbs without the 10+ lb battery in it and the increased mass means you don't have to get it up to higher speeds to properly bed the brakes the same as a bike that's 20+lbs lighter.
for an option that's 100% safe that lets you get what needs to be done, done. seems like an easy first step to make the liability police happy until something more convenient is setup.
None of my bikes have batteries or motors. They will never catch on fire! 😎
You need to pedal faster! 🚲 💨 🔥
@@Jeff_Rey😆👍
Good now take your sweaty ass out and play in traffic
These chinese e-bikes companies do not care about repairing them. Especially in the foreign markets.
They want to sell as much e-bikes as they can before the laws catch up to them!
It is obviously unfair competition, they know it, we know it (provided a bit of research has been done).
Not many honest videos about this atm, very sus imho but hey thanks for going against the trend!
Appreciate the comment! I own and run a bike shop day to day and work with a lot of these D2C brands to perform repairs. It’s wild some of the stuff we’re seeing. And the customer is upset because they spent $1500 on something that had a lifespan of 2 years before it’s cost prohibitive to fix it.
I have a Bezior from E bay. It shorted and burned a wire in half. The controller was just stuffed loosely in a metal box that was the frame backbone. The connections were not insulated at all.
@@Jeff_Rey
You should deffo make content on some of these crazy stories you see in your shop. I guarantee you a lot of people would want to see that, especially me, it'll pbly be super successful!
Just my grain of salt btw, I suscribed to your channel, hope to see more good stuff :p take care