Courtly Love
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 ก.ค. 2023
- Laura and I have a conversation on Courtly Love with a focus on the German material in which Laura has expertise. Laura sing a sample piece from the period, English translation:
Under the lime tree
On the heather,
Where we had shared a place of rest,
Still you may find there,
Lovely together,
Flowers crushed and grass down-pressed.
Beside the forest in the vale,
Tándaradéi,
Sweetly sang the nightingale.
2. I came to meet him
At the green:
There was my truelove come before.
Such was I greeted -
Heaven's Queen! -
That I am glad for evermore.
Had he kisses? A thousand some:
Tándaradéi,
See how red my mouth's become.
3. There he had fashioned
For luxury
A bed from every kind of flower.
It sets to laughing
Delightedly
Whoever comes upon that bower;
By the roses well one may,
Tándaradéi,
Mark the spot my head once lay.
4. If any knew
He lay with me
(May God forbid!), for shame I'd die.
What did he do?
May none but he
Ever be sure of that - and I,
And one extremely tiny bird,
Tándaradéi,
Who will, I think, not say a word. - บันเทิง
Since Nate mentioned Wagner's take on Wolfram but we never discussed it in detail, here it is: "“Wolfram is a thoroughly immature phenomenon, for which, however, his barbaric, completely confused age was probably to blame, suspended as it was between the old Christianity and the newer state economy. At that time nothing could attain a finished form. The profundity of the poet simply got lost in insubstantial fantasizing. Really, one just has to have internalized the material from the realm of genuine saga as deeply as I’ve done with this Grail saga, and then take a quick look at how a poet like Wolfram portrayed it, to be immediately repelled by the poet's incompetence. I really have to redo this Parzival from scratch! Because Wolfram knows nothing at all about it: Parzival's despair of God is silly and unmotivated, his conversion is even more unsatisfying. The thing about the “question” is so utterly tasteless and completely meaningless. I’m just going to have to invent everything myself.”
Laura! I love when you two talk. I can’t wait to have the time to listen.
Laura thank you for gracing us with such a beautifully sung poem! That was really special.
Really enjoyed this one!
Beautiful conversation.. The romantic movement was already the begining of the end .. It began to idealise love for its own sake aside from the only real true love affair.. that between man and god.. The misogny and lust of the modetn age is a revenge against the romantic myths that have been propgated in our novels songs and films for too long.. No human being can satisfy the hearts holy affections...
Have either of you heard of John Wilmot, 2nd Earl of Rochester. He wasn’t medieval, but he was a courtier and a poet:)
Heard of yes, read any of his poetry, no.
1:05:19 “God is love…what does that mean…”
Yep. Great questions.
Hi Nate : T0M =)
Oh Nate, I watched this and now I think I understand the point you were making about the Cathars...sorry for being confused
Yes, Sufi/Cathar influence was once a popular academic theory. As far as Sufi influence goes I think Corbin was right to conclude that they were picking up on the same metaphysical realities and no direct influence is required. Everything about the Cathars seems more controversial than ever but it might be fun to livestream a game of Montsegur 1244 sometime: www.drivethrurpg.com/product/429235/Montsegur-1244
@@grailcountry The point had to do with the idea that courtly love actually did not aim at sexual union and could therefore have been influenced by Cathar culture...right?
Seems my mic cut out at random moments during my singing, sad!
Yes, it was random, so not mic position, I noticed but would have made it worse had I said anything. It was still lovely!
52:00 unrequited love CAN’T be mammon. Right? It can only be godly.
30:29 If I were to take a stab at that from my own non-Christian frame, I'd blame marketing and consumer culture pushing modern women out of a traditional or natural role into becoming men themselves in order to complete in the workforce to have the income needed to buy the products that they are told will provide happiness and fulfillment.
I'd say your generation was probably the first to deal with the fallout of the second wave feminist movement of the 60s, and there was still some lingering "romance" left over during that era. Now though, even essential human interactions have become just another commodity for the machine to sell back to us through dating apps and social media.
There is an argument that I encountered recently that Capitalism actually creates the possibility of sexual identity existing at all. This Jacobin piece acknowledges it: jacobin.com/2020/08/gay-identity-capitalism-lgbt
It would be great to have a whole conversation just about this topic. The dating scene for Gen Xers and how it differed from that of the generations before and after, and why.
Great talk! I loved hearing Laura sing. Very beautiful. Maybe next time you can both sing together? That would be great.
I clicked because I thought this was a COURTNEY Love video.
Whoops. Very different.
I didnt come for Courtney love.. But thats what i kept hearing by association.. 😂. Worryinh..
49:59 drinking a bowl of water that someone washed their hands in?! Ew.