This huge 3D printer was fun, but absolutely no one should buy it - Formbot Raptor 2.0 review!
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 4 ก.พ. 2020
- What happens when you try to baloon up a 3D printer’s spec sheet, but don’t actually know how to build a decent 3D printer? Well, Vivedino happens.
No affiliate links for this one! Do not buy one.
Prints shown:
Deadpool bust by eastman www.myminifactory.com/object/...
Alien egg pen holder by crazyman2099 www.thingiverse.com/thing:131...
Read the article to this video here: toms3d.org/2020/02/12/vivedin...
Product links are affiliate links - I may earn a commission on qualifying purchases (at no extra cost to you)
🎥 All my video gear toms3d.org/my-gear
I use Epidemic Sound, sign up for a 30-day free trial here share.epidemicsound.com/MadeWi...
🎧 Check out the Meltzone Podcast (with CNC Kitchen)! / @themeltzone
👐 Enjoying the videos? Support my work on Patreon! / toms3dp - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
How long till they send an email begging to take this video down and "We sent it to you to give us feedback, why did you upload a malicious review!?" We have already fixed these issueS! >_> Seen this all before, 2020 it has to stop.
"malicious review!?" UGH!! Remind me to never be an "influencer."
Thanks for the review of this. I learned a lot. I had the same issue with a Creality CR10. It was dangerously assembled and I sent it back.
Better if you guys just refuse to “ review” them. Like you did the A8 which never set any house on fire…nor did any of 5 I have had and sold on 4 …all still running the only heat they produce is beds and nozzles.
Huge Kudos to you Angus, Thomas for this review and your peers in the YT space that always manage to give the straight forward unbiased reviews. Showing backbone, ethics and morals while looking out for yours and others interests outside of "making the almighty buck" makes you and the gang, a great bunch of professionals. Don't think for a minute we don't notice it and appreciate it because we do. Thanks for the review Thomas. As painful as it was to get through that. The irony to me in all of this is the fact that the makers of these things don't realize that even newb's like myself, while not a PRO at 3d Printing? I've spent 25 plus years in tech, as an engineer, and would've beat this up for all the same reasons Thomas / Angus / All would. It doesn't take a pro in a particular vertical market to recognize flaws of this nature. As such, it's an insult to sell me a what, thousand dollar machine? With the level of shortcomings this one brought to the table. /End Rant...
AHEM COFF COFF ~Anet~ COFF COFF
"one should not assume malice for what stupidity can explain" that's great.
Hanlon's law
@Bryant RudolphThat would explain what's going on with Congress right now.
There's also Grey's Law: "Any sufficiently advanced incompetence is indistinguishable from malice".
@@nyyotam4057 Sound like an inverse quote from Arthur Clarke:_"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic" jajj...
@@Zitropat Indeed. Grey didn't hide the fact that his was the opposite of Clarke's third law.
Thanks for being honest, and telling us the real information and not the marketing spin. Appreciate it.
Releases neurotoxin
GLaDOS approves
The cake is a lie...
@@misadventuresin3dprinting.545 You will be baked and then there will be cake!
I thought the exact same thing when he said that. LOL!
There will be cake.
Иван Снежков I came to comment exactly that... I guess not now
Wow, what a rant!
deserved !
Thomas, I think you need to get off the fence and tell us what you really think of this machine ;)
No rant, just an honest product warning.
It's a bit disingenuous to call the bugfix branch the "beta" branch. It is what everyone should be running since the prod release has a LOT of issues that bugfix fixes. It it was running the dev-2.1.x then that would definitely be a beta line.
A much needed rant. Companies that do things like this need to be called out brutally.
I really appreciate an honest review like this, I am sure it will prevent some people from burning their house down or worse using a printer they thought safe.
This machine is safe, mine had all the protections working out of the box, and works fine after some tuning. Its nowhere near as bad as he says..
Thanks for doing your part in keeping consumers informed and safe!
I didn't know you had a cameraman until I saw him at 7:17.
Not sure it's him.
I thought the fact, that the camera is moving several times while tom's speaking with both his hands clearly visible is a dead giveaway... but on the other hand, it's tom and he could've built his own robot arm to control the camera. 🤷♂️
Tom is so angry at this printer, he didn't even care the cameraman photobombed his shot :p
Na, that is just Tom again. Its' a special abilities of Germans to be in the two places at the same time for greater efficiency.
@@ElectraFlarefire True, you know those Germans always make good stuff.
I love the exposed ground wire randomly attached to the back of the control box
This was so much fun to watch. This technical precise reviews are crucial do dicern the crap from good designs.
I absolutely love that you dismantled the printer at the end and showed us all that nitty gritty. Too many reviewers out there don't bother doing that and just want to keep their free machine intact for personal use.
What a great review Thomas! Thanks for being honest and straight to the point🙂
"they even include a laser upgrade kit, cause you know, laser are safe" i LOL'd so hard :)
Thomas, nice to see someone really pointing out the crap.
I actually like having the heated bed on a separate power cord. I have my electronics and extruded plugged into a UPS, so a power flicker doesn’t ruin a print. A 750w bed heater would drain that quickly enough that it would be expensive to a battery or it wouldn’t last long enough to be useful. The rest about this machine though .. woof.
Great point about the UPS. I've never used a printer with a heated bed, but it seems once the first layer is down, it becomes less important anyway....?
@@McTroyd For PLA, a not having a heated bed is all right especially with smaller prints but even then, a heated bed still helps. But if you're printing in PETG/ABS/PC you do need a heated bed.
@@shadow7037932 Duly noted, thanks! At the moment my printer is PLA only (stock Da Vinci Jr), but that info will be helpful when the time comes to hack it for upgrades.
@@McTroyd once your heated bed cools, the expansion differential between the bed and the part causes it to release. in some cases, i could see this absolutely causing a failed print. that said, i would hope the heated bed had enough insulation on it to keep that from happening during a minor power interruption. for a prolonged power interruption a UPS will do no good anyway.
@MichaelKingsfordGray Which should not cause any issue. As long as you not cheaped out the cabling and insulation. It should pass 2.5kV RMS HiPot testing, right?
Oh no! It reminds me of my Tevo Tornado. I COMPLETELY rewired it with proper 3 core flex, added fuses, changed the ridiculous 10a fuse in the PSU, changed the wiring so that it is now fused on the live and not the neutral and doesn't present exposed mains voltage to the connectors at the rear of the control box, added Protective Earth to the frame, added strain relief to the unearthed skinny mains powered heated bed cables at both the bed and control box ends, added extra insulation to the skinny mains powered heated bed cables, shimmed-out the frame to make it straight, added a bltouch and blue tape to to heatbed (after trying various other solutions like glass etc) to compensate as best as possible for the warped bed, uploaded completely new firmware with thermal runaway protection enabled, changed the power supply for a decent one, changed the solid relay for a decent one, changed the fake FTDI chip on the mainboard to allow Octopi to work and allow it to communicate properly with a computer, added a Rasperry Pi with Temperature Failsafe and Smartplug plugins to shut down power if the temps started misbehaving, added a smoke alarm linked to a hacked 433Mhz socket to shut it off if there was smoke, changed all the wirewrap, changed the SD (which had been programmed to report a fake size).... I still won't turn my back on it and it still needs Pritt Stick to print anything reliably but is at least usable. Other than that, it is great. Last time I buy anything from them...
I have a "Trex", cousin of the Raptor. I would say these printers are valuable to small group of people. They are definitely not for everyone. I agree with so many points you have made. The wiring is horrible. Mine had a custom POS ribbon cable going to the carriage. It caught on everything. Im glad my cat chewed it in half. Weak does not begin to describe the extruders. It is a crime to call the included hot ends e3d volcanos (not even a 1/4 of the quality). But, the machine has a nice motion system that is rigid and smooth. After a few years of messing around, mine will produce prints that are better than my Ultimaker3 can make. It takes more involvment though. I upraded to 32 bit board (first week), real E3d extruder and hot end, 0.9 degree steppers, and custom bed holders. Interestingly, ive never had trouble with the steppers skipping, even at .7 amps. I now have trinamic step sticks, and they will skip if i push it to fast. It appears the only name brand item on the printer is the BL Touch sensor. I also take advantage of the large build platform for laser engraving (not the peice of crap that was included) and light rotary engraving. It does very well.
Thanks for reading!
maybe I'm just tired but "I'm glad my cat chewed it in half" is so funny to me
This printer turns your house into Volcano hot end.
Care to provide your data for this statement ? Documented cases of these printers causing a fire ? Or you just spewing bs some reviewer said "could happen"?
@@mhanson762 If mine had any issue it would sound a loud alarm and shut the printer off
@@mattmeyer6471 exactly any one that has a 3d printer and a brain has some sort of fire detection and supression system . I would never trust the printers thermal runaway protections anyways.
@@mhanson762 I own this machine and it sounds alarms if i have issues. After seeing fires on other machiens i have stuff setup but i trust this printer at this time. I do however go over all connections before i start a multi day print to ensure its gtg with any printer i own.
@@mhanson762 Watch the part with the heated bed cable chain again. Even assuming marlins thermal runaway protection is enabled ( I not sure if it is ) A 220v cable just needs a few seconds to start a fire when the insulation is rubbed through.
Excellent review, thanks so much for your say it like it is reviews! Was nice to see some call out the junk that's available.
I had to use this thing for work for a year. We logged well over 1000 hours on it. At times it was great, but always, always required constant tinkering. PLA used around the hotend... Give me a break! The very fact that your hot end cable can catch on your print shows that it could have never been tested to its maximum volume.
If I ever see this printer for sale used, and I can get a good price, now I know exactly what to alter and replace. Excellent review, thanks!
honest and non biased review 👍
Danke Thomas für diese Vorstellung, endlich mal ehrliche Worte und kein Hersteller gesteuerter Review.
Saubere Arbeit💪 und Grüße aus Berlin
Good and honest review - good stuff Tom and all of your observations are very valid!
Just WOW
I love watching your channel. Keep up the Hard Work and Awesome Job..
Well, well, well. Talk about serendipity, Thomas. I was just about to order one of these. Thanks for the awesome video and warning.
Thanks dude, nice to see some of my concerns were justified.
It can print noodles
And if you try often enuf, it can cook Ur noodles too, with a side serve of neurotoxin.
I own the Trex 2 + it is a fine printer and with the right upgrades it prints like a dream. I wouldn't recommend it for a beginner but with the right upgrades they do perform great with large prints. I run stock hot ends and extruders and have no issues pushing filament for long prints and I get good prints with larger nozzle sizes as well. I have had no issues with wires chafing but the rex 2 + didn't come with a cable chain.
I’ve had the 400x400x700 for almost a year. I had a few layer shifts that I corrected by installing a better fan for the motherboard. Upgraded the hotend to the E3D V6 and use a polypropylene bed. Reasonable upgrades and it prints like a dream! No signs of any unusual wear and tear...
Well, that is not the point, isn't it? You should not need to invest more money to correct mistakes which the manufacturer should not have made in first place. It is shifting the burden to the customer and pretends a seemingly good price but has a hidden cost on top.
Still a fire hazard!!
First video I've seen from you and I am glad you're honest unlike some of the paid critics out there. Very good video, helpful and comfy to listen to
I'd love to see this printer rebuild video to make it a good reliable machine
I had similar fears before buying my Sidewinder X1 v4 last Black Friday for US$350. Nothing but total delight so far, but I'm keeping a close eye on it.
What I like most is how well it prints those "goopy" cheap metallic satin PLA filaments. Shockingly good results with no fuss at all, using standard settings. This after wasting time, filament, nozzles, heat-breaks (and heartbreaks) on my other printers. Love the Volcano melt zone!
Hi Thomas! Love your videos! I'd love to see a 2nd video reconditioning that printer to something else! :)
Thanks for keeping us all Alive🤓
Well done! Thank you for what you do.
SUPERB review, as usual. Have you ever contacted a manufacturer and asked something like, “What were you thinking? Didn’t you realize that customers would notice your flawed engineering?”
Great review! Thanks, Thomas!
Thank you for your honesty!
Thank you for an honest review. 👍😎
I made the mistake to buy the original Formbot T-Rex at full price back then when I started 3D printing and knew nothing, around 2k€ ... After a few years of trying to get it to print better than "good enough", it ended up as nice supply of aluminium extrusion for my Corexy project. I could've built the same printer for less than 700€, but I guess you always get burnt when you start, especially a few years back when the choice was much more limited and less reviews were out there
1:15
"It costs between 900 dollars and 1100 euros."
I like how you managed to make sure that almost no one will be able to fully understand the price range.
It is simple - US price and EU price. US uses $ EU uses €. Simple.
They are different and EU price uses to be considerably higher - due to the tax.
Like know one will no what a night in shining armor will do on the knight of Christmas eve and who nose what to do? Oh I no know what!
It's really easy dude think of a euro as 1.1 usd and it's like 900 to 1250 usd or around 800 to 1100 euros.
It's somewhere between a rock and a hard place.
@@antonisautos8704 aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
@@mungo7136 the issue is the word "between". He didn't say it costs $x USD or €y Euro. Ranges are usually given in the same units. Much like you wouldn't say that you're going to hike somewhere between 5 miles and 10 kilometers.
It's all okay though, we're just having fun with that one quote.
Thank you for your review !! I couldn't agree with you more !! This machine is dangerous !. Like you said it needs weeks to produce parts and upon printing i almost caught fire !! The wires under the bed melted !! And generally the extrusion set was weak !. The bed heat is exactly as you said also ! It bubbles when you go over 85.
“One shouldn’t assume malice for what stupidity can explain”
There’s a fantastic quote right there :) sums up many machines and kits
Thank you for showing us how a 3D printer shouldn’t be made! Already, I am very keen on how the Voron 2.4 build plate stays static - I can see how that is a good thing when it has a 230V heater. I currently run a modified Tronxy x5 and am looking at ideas for my next printer. Note that the Tronxy also uses a 40-pin interconnect between controller and extruder/hotend wiring, but it actually serves a purpose there by lifting the interconnect ‘daughterboard’ to near the top of the frame, so the wiring from extruder/hotend is standard length while the electronics stay low-down for cooling. It seems the designers of this Raptor completely missed that purpose of having an interconnect board. Perhaps they never had to change a fan or thermistor. No malice, just stupidity :)
Aww, I kinda liked you dodging the raptor that was shooting lasers out of its eyes featured previously in the thumbnail!
Greta..i just got the troodon. It has some quirks but is printing ok so far. Might make a review of it myself. Thank you for your honest review.
Wow, SO many issues! Thanks for this honest review
Yeah man. Hats off toy you for your honesty.
Glad to see your results fit with my warning that it wasn't worth the time. And glad to see a nice honest assessment of the machine. Sadly many of these issues are present on earlier models as well. I'm shocked to see they remain on a newer revision. Hopefully the companies building these will take this feedback and make the needed improvements now that someone with a voice has said these things.
I think the heated bed has its own plug maybe because it could exceed a home circuit... Its also a keenovo mat, so its just off the shelf with its own power.
For US users, at 120v, the 1200w mats start to tap out a 15amp circuit where you may need to branch out to 2 different circuits.
Thanks for your honest review
Those heatsinks are not even in contact with the PCB. Guaranteed to have overheat cut out of driver's. So many issues, Great honest review.
"...since it has some of the essential safety features of Marlin disabled..." SERIOUSLY??
Damn.
Does it come with an automatic fire suppression system?
I thought not.
Nice review. Maybe the best ever, anywhere.
Thanks for staying honest mate, cheers
Almost a proper rant. Love it!
When I saw the belt tensioner I started chuckling 😂
I bought a Raptor 2 + that can print 400x400x700 in September last year because I needed a printer that could print 620 mm. I had no problems with the printer, all I changed was the bed to glass and the hotend to a copper. I have no problems with layer switch, of the 3 printer I have this is my go to when the model is to big for my ender 5.
You are a great reviewer....I love your videos
I agree with you on about everything except the belt tensionning system for the Y axis I like seeing a manufacturer include a tensionning system and a belt aligment system. Especially soo if the belt motor and tensionner are not on a the same Aluminium profile . It allows tracking adjustment of the belt. Only problem I would see is this adjustment vibrating loose since i didn't see any way of locking it. While it could have been made better I don't see it being a major issue.
Thanks for the heads up!
A friend of mine just bought this. the store selling it updated the wiring to pass CSA standards. He's been going crazy figuring out the layer shifts.
10:36 Glados has entered the chat.
Well, great share. I realized my notification got changed by YT - glad to be back in the chain, again.
Thankyou for your honest review. They had the raptor 2.0+ on offer on 3d prima but I’ll think I give it a miss…
i bought a new cr10 dual axis clone right before xmas it was 1/3 the price as a new cr10 da... i hated it t first because it was poorly made and i was a new bee...but after a couple of weeks i got it up to making high quality prints with no problems and now i love it...like 170 total into it... and i feel i really know 3d printers very well now...both this machine and my ender 5 had every issue you can think of... but now they are golden and real work horses...
Thank you! Keep up the good work and I agree with everything you said.
My friend has the T-Rex plus or whatever. Dual independent x axis print heads. The design was okay. But the ball screws are silly. When you need 2 z screws and you don't have a way to sync them like mach3 cnc machines can do with dual limit switches it's probably best to have a frame mounted Bowden extruder or at least an extruder that doesn't require you to compress a spring as it's easy to back drive the lead screws and de sync your axis. If some sync process isn't an option like stalling the axis against a stop then it's probably beneficial to use single start lead screws as they don't back drive like 4 start or ball screws making it less likely for accidental desyncs.. The z screws or couplings run out and it proved an improvement to remove the top support bearings. Some of the guide bearings weren't well adjusted, the head bed has an external controller. It's 24v drive which sounds nice but really only helps travel moves as these small stepper drives often make a little less torque with higher voltages. The bed is so heavy the acceleration must be slow. The drives came adjusted for 12v and needed to be turned down for 12v operation. Although we did get it tuned it wasn't for beginners. They never released source code or a pins.h file and it had weird issues when trying to connect it to a terminal. I want to flash it but with the 40pin header I just don't trust that the ramps pin configuration is correct and am not taking things that far until I have the hardware to replace it if need be. I just don't have the time to write programs to wiggle the pins and reverse engineer the pins.h file. We are probably going to change over to a big tree tech 32bit board once I get the dev environment figured out and just wire it from scratch. Most printers I consider a kit. Like 20 years ago you'd buy a model airplane and you'd change like 80% of the hardware to your own liking as time went on. Yet somehow creality printers seem okay out of the box despite all the designs that look like shortcuts.
The issue is the moving bed. The increasing mass, increases the mass moment of inertia, causing more and more unstability. A printer this large should be a fixed bed, with a full 4 stepper motor gantry that does all movements. CNC milling machines etc, are designed that way for a reason. The increase or decrease in mass is happening on a fixed location, while the moving gantry does not shrink or gain any mass..
Agreed. An HyperCube, that is :-). EDIT: Well, a Delta could also do it, but a Delta with its complex movements and its flimsy head.. I like the HyperCube idea better.
Off topic: TH-cam rephrased your comment into "CNC... Are designed that way for a read more..."
I found that quite funny.
Thanks for yet another great review. This one made me feel a lot better with my Monoprice MP10 and its sub par stock extruder. At least my hot end is... you know, hot.
wo, thomas you really tore that printer apart and to be honest I compleetly agree on every word you said
I have upgraded my CR10 S5 with more or less what they offered for this printer and that was not only cheaper to do but also done in a better fashion
Malice! Wow thanks for what you do!!!
I bought the T-Rex 2 when it came out. If you think the raptor is bad, consider yourself lucky. they used to use a long ribbon cable to the extruder with nothing holding it up. it would catch on the bed ant on parts. The bed was controlled by a stand alone controller instead of by the printer. there was no belt tensioner for the Y axis. There were other issues, too. After spending as much on replacement parts as I originally spent on the printer, I eventually gave up and scrapped it for parts.
Well! Now I feel really happy about my Artillery X1!
love you Thomas, the only 3d printer reviewer out there who tells it like it is instead of just giving a glowing review for every machine for kickbacks *cough*3d printer nerd*cough*
Makers Muse has been calling them out for some time
@@youngster30uk that's fair. i forget about him because he took such a long hiatus
Great video! Thanks you for your excellent work!
hahaah! As usual a great review (on FDM printers) and amusing too. Though the new cameraman has to learn to move out of the scene , when the "first cameraman" is shooting. Good work Thomas!
one of the issues with 3d printers is that no one uses " flex" cables. so yes the cables fail but if you get proper drag chain compliant cables you should be fine. although it is a bit expensive
Did the manufacturer's competitor send this to you for review? 😁
Just subscribed cuz of this video. Thank you for warning us about this large 3d printer. I hate wasting money!
I got a CR-10 S5 a few yeárs ago, for about the same price, and it's much crappier than this one, but the only thing Creality got right was that they put in a beefy NEMA stepper for the Y axis.
I was left with replacing the warped bed with a cast aluminium pláte magnetic buildplateánd silicone heater, replácing the hotend with a Mosquito Magnum, replacing the melzi board with a Duet WiFi board, installing linear rails. Now I'm looking at getting a Flex3Drive or Zesty Nimble extruder
I spent more on parts than I payed for the CR-10 S5
Thank you for Crossing one off the list in my search
Really makes me appreciate the quality of my Creality machine.
great video, seems more like something you buy to upgrade. appreciated the chungus reference.
price is to big for something that need so much work and replace parts to become acceptable
@@Rozbujnik_Rumcajs yeah, you probably could build something better with cheap ebay parts
thank you for the review . save people time and money
Wow! What a shoddy piece of kit! Well done for calling out the manufacturer! It can kill you in so many ways!
Appreciate the honest review. Some other TH-camrs would have simply done a "Introducing the BEST NEW 3D printer! Click on link below to purchase" video and overlooked the flaws. In fact, I am willing to bet lots more of these are going to get sent out to review, with perhaps more strict guidelines imposed by the manufacturer.
I have this machine haven’t experienced any of the issues you talk about. I’ve done several multi day prints not had any shifting. I’ve checked my wire chain and after a year of use no signs of wear at all. I’m not saying it’s a perfect machine but I really feel it doesn’t deserve the beat down you gave it
7:55 ..... Ghost camera floats in from the right! 😂
I have this machine and so far, I did a BMG mod, moved the SSR to the PSU box, installed a flex plate, and bigger nema17. currently, I’m working on upgrading the board
so basically changed everything? Why not build one then from the beginning?
Btw, my machine is two years old and it got all of the same issues.
nukularpictures Because I have already bought it. I was fooled by the specs.
I have an Anycubic Chiron.. Also 400x400, but only 450mm height.
It has it's own set of issues, but easily tweaked, tuned and upgraded, and only about half the cost of this machine with decent support from Anycubic. And... I only need 1 plug. :)
Have you had any issues with the dasFilament? SPecifically that roll?
I have a 2.3kg one as well and I've had a jam from a piece where it looks like they joined two strands of filament but didn't do a good job. That jam ultimately cost me a hotend as that was the first time I took it apart and that went rather poorly
Bringing these issues to light helps the rest of us identify similar issues on other printers we have that might not have a specific review. Thanks for the warning.
Tom, I understand your complaints, but at the same time I use a gCreate gMax 1.5xt at work. The gMax came with most of the same issues for a price of around $3500 USD. My opinion is for the price your getting a better priced starting point. As for your skipped steps. On our gMax, I swapped the stock pulleys for smaller ones to allow for more torque as well as using drv8825 drivers on the x, y and z. Should printers come with these problems? No, but considering what you get, I would gladly take the Raptor as a project. That said, I recently purchased a SainSmart Coreception and think it's one of the best values available. I would like to hear your thoughts. Thanks always for your content.
I clicked because it had a raptor and I LOVE raptors! RAWR!
16:14 those ballscrew and linear rail look nice, maybe a new CNC machine coming up?
Great video, Tom. Very informative. Keep up the good work.
One slight suggestion: Have your videographer turn off auto-focus and have him (her?) use manual focus. When watching the close-ups, going in and out of focus starts giving us headaches.
The Schuko connector is actually fine since the alternative Europlugs (EN 50075) are only allowed for up to 2.5A or about 600W. It is perfectly OK to use a Schuko plug without its name giving Schutzkontakt actually :)
Great Honest Review
There are so many carp products out there today. The race to the bottom seems to be picking up speed every day. Products like this make the el cheapo plastic-framed printers of a few years ago look good.
I'm liking the second camera man. I just wish the motions were smoother, kinda jarring with the abrupt zooms and jerky panning.