Anthony Grimani has kept this a SECRET...Until NOW! CEDIA 2023
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 30 มิ.ย. 2024
- Anthony Grimani has kept this a SECRET...Until NOW! CEDIA 2023
This video is sponsored by Grimani Systems
Visit Grimani Systems - www.grimanisystems.com/
CEDIA 2023 Playlist - bit.ly/CEDIA_2023
Join Us for MWAVE 2024 (June 21-23, 2024) - midwestavexperience.com/
MWAVE 2023 Videos - midwestavexperience.com/mwave...
Platinum Channel Sponsor: Arendal Sound - bit.ly/Arendal_Sound
1723 Speakers - bit.ly/Arendal_1723_Series
1761 Speakers - bit.ly/Arendal_1961_Series
Subwoofers - bit.ly/Arendal_Subwoofers
1723 Monitor THX - bit.ly/Arendal_1723_THX_Monitor
1723 Subwoofer 2V - bit.ly/1723_Subwoofer_2V
1723 Subwoofer 1S - bit.ly/1723_Subwoofer_1S
1961 Subwoofers - bit.ly/Arendal_1961_Subwoofers
Timestamps:
00:00 - Intro
00:55 - Who is Anthony Grimani
03:11 - Grimani Systems Design Process
05:04 - Designing CEDIA 2023 Demo Room
07:44 - Why Anthony Designed His Own Speakers
12:58 - The Technology in the Grimani Speakers
23:10 - Audio Over IP - First Used at CEDIA 2023
33:30 - Connecting With Grimani Systems
Upgrade Your Home Theater - bit.ly/MWAVE_Sales
Weekly and monthly Zooms on Patreon - / youthman
The AV Experience Podcast - bit.ly/The_AV_Experience_Podcast
MWAVE 2023 Tickets and Info - midwestavexperience.com/
FREE Home Theater Design Tool - bit.ly/Home-Theater-Design-Tool
Recommended Home Theater Gear - www.amazon.com/shop/youthman
Submit your Home Theater - hometheatertours.com.
Ways You Can Support:
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Disclaimer: Affiliate Links are used in the description of this video. I earn from qualifying purchases.
Valencia Bespoke Series Theater Seats:
Tuscany Ultimate Luxury - bit.ly/valencia-tuscany-ultim...
Oslo Ultimate Luxury - bit.ly/valencia-oslo-ultimate...
Naples - bit.ly/Valencia_Naples
Valencia Cinema Series Theater Seats:
Venice - bit.ly/valencia_venice
Budapest - bit.ly/valencia_budapest
Piacenza - bit.ly/valencia_piacenza
Piacenza Powered Headrest - bit.ly/valencia_piacenza_powe...
Verona - bit.ly/valencia_verona
Verona - Powered Headrest - bit.ly/valencia_verona
Valencia Premier Series Theater Seats:
Oslo - bit.ly/valenciaoslo
Oslo XL - bit.ly/valenciaosloxl
Zurich - bit.ly/valenciazurich
Tuscany - bit.ly/valencia_tuscany
Bern - bit.ly/valencia_bern
All Valencia Seating - bit.ly/valencia_all
____
Bulb Projectors:
Epson 4050UB - bit.ly/Epson_4050UB
Epson 5050UB - bit.ly/Epson_5050UB
Sony VPL-HW65ES - bit.ly/Sony_VPL-HW65ES
JVC LX-NZ3 - bit.ly/JVC_LX-NZ3
JVC DLA-NX7 - bit.ly/JVC_DLA-NX7
Laser Projectors:
Epson LS11000 - bit.ly/Epson_LS11000
Epson LS12000 - bit.ly/Epson_LS12000
JVC DLA-NZ7 - bit.ly/JVC-DLA-NZ7
JVC DLA-NZ8 - bit.ly/JVC_DLA-NZ8
JVC DLA-NZ9 - bit.ly/JVC-DLA-NZ9
Sony VPL-XW5000ES - bit.ly/Sony_VPL-XW5000ES
Sony VPL-XW6000ES - bit.ly/Sony_VPL-XW6000ES
Sony VPL-XW7000ES - bit.ly/Sony_VPL-XW7000ES
Denon AVR's:
AVR-X2800H 7.2ch AVR - bit.ly/Denon_AVR-2800H
AVR-X3800H 9.4ch AVR - bit.ly/Denon_AVR-X3800H
AVR-X4800H 9.4ch AVR - bit.ly/Denon_AVR-X4800H
AVR-X6700H 11.2ch AVR - bit.ly/Denon_AVR-X6700H
AVR-X8500H 13.2ch AVR - bit.ly/Denon_AVR-X8500H
AVR-A1H 13.2ch AVR - bit.ly/Denon_AVR-A1H
_____
My 7.2.4 Dedicated Home Theater System:
Speakers:
(3) JTR Noesis 212HTR - bit.ly/JTR_Noesis_212HTR
(8) JTR Noesis 110HT-SL (Surround & Heights) - bit.ly/JTR_110HT-SL
(2) JTR Captivator RS2 Subwoofers - bit.ly/jtr-captivator-rs2
Video:
JVC DLA-NX7 Projector - bit.ly/JVC-DLA-NX7
150" Seymour Center Stage XD (2.35:1) AT Screen - seymourav.com/screensDIY.php
Pioneer UDP-LX500 - bit.ly/2GwGZly
PS5
Audio:
Marantz AV7706 11.2 Processor - bit.ly/Marantz_AV7706
Monolith 11X Amplifier - amzn.to/2VB4CAg
GIK Acoustics - bit.ly/GIK-Acoustics-1
Theater Seating:
Tuscany Ultimate Luxury - bit.ly/valencia-tuscany-ultim...
Valencia Tuscany - bit.ly/valencia_tuscany
Lighting:
Lutron Caseta with Hub - amzn.to/2V1vp9n
CB Concept SMD5050 LED Lighting - amzn.to/39LpmtG
#cedia2023 #grimanisystems #speakers - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
Anthony Grimani has kept this a SECRET...Until NOW! CEDIA 2023
This video is sponsored by Grimani Systems
Visit Grimani Systems - www.grimanisystems.com/
CEDIA 2023 Playlist - bit.ly/CEDIA_2023
Timestamps:
00:00 - Intro
00:55 - Who is Anthony Grimani
03:11 - Grimani Systems Design Process
05:04 - Designing CEDIA 2023 Demo Room
07:44 - Why Anthony Designed His Own Speakers
12:58 - The Technology in the Grimani Speakers
23:10 - Audio Over IP - First Used at CEDIA 2023
33:30 - Connecting With Grimani Systems
Join Us for MWAVE 2024 (June 21-23, 2024) - midwestavexperience.com/
MWAVE 2023 Videos - midwestavexperience.com/mwave-2023-videos/
Platinum Channel Sponsor: Arendal Sound - bit.ly/Arendal_Sound
1723 Speakers - bit.ly/Arendal_1723_Series
1761 Speakers - bit.ly/Arendal_1961_Series
Subwoofers - bit.ly/Arendal_Subwoofers
1723 Monitor THX - bit.ly/Arendal_1723_THX_Monitor
1723 Subwoofer 2V - bit.ly/1723_Subwoofer_2V
1723 Subwoofer 1S - bit.ly/1723_Subwoofer_1S
1961 Subwoofers - bit.ly/Arendal_1961_Subwoofers
Upgrade Your Home Theater - bit.ly/MWAVE_Sales
Weekly and monthly Zooms on Patreon - www.patreon.com/youthman
The AV Experience Podcast - bit.ly/The_AV_Experience_Podcast
MWAVE 2023 Tickets and Info - midwestavexperience.com/
FREE Home Theater Design Tool - bit.ly/Home-Theater-Design-Tool
Recommended Home Theater Gear - www.amazon.com/shop/youthman
Submit your Home Theater - hometheatertours.com.
Ways You Can Support:
Patreon: www.patreon.com/youthman
Youthman Courses - www.youthmancourses.com/
Youthman Merch - teespring.com/stores/youthman/
Donation via Venmo @Youthman
Follow Us:
TH-cam: Subscribe to this Channel: goo.gl/YEJ23p
Youthman Crew Facebook Group - facebook.com/groups/youthmancrew
Instagram: instagram.com/youthmanreviews/
Twitter: twitter.com/youthmanreviews/
Website: youthmanreviews.com/
____
Disclaimer: Affiliate Links are used in the description of this video. I earn from qualifying purchases.
Valencia Bespoke Series Theater Seats:
Tuscany Ultimate Luxury - bit.ly/valencia-tuscany-ultimate-luxury
Oslo Ultimate Luxury - bit.ly/valencia-oslo-ultimate-luxury
Naples - bit.ly/Valencia_Naples
Valencia Cinema Series Theater Seats:
Venice - bit.ly/valencia_venice
Budapest - bit.ly/valencia_budapest
Piacenza - bit.ly/valencia_piacenza
Piacenza Powered Headrest - bit.ly/valencia_piacenza_powered_headrest
Verona - bit.ly/valencia_verona
Verona - Powered Headrest - bit.ly/valencia_verona
Valencia Premier Series Theater Seats:
Oslo - bit.ly/valenciaoslo
Oslo XL - bit.ly/valenciaosloxl
Zurich - bit.ly/valenciazurich
Tuscany - bit.ly/valencia_tuscany
Bern - bit.ly/valencia_bern
All Valencia Seating - bit.ly/valencia_all
Anthony Grimani is living the dream right now. Going from Lucasfilm to his own home theater line is pure bliss.
That’s pretty awesome!
That's exactly the kind of person I want to do business with. Someone with knowledge, experience and passion about music and audio.
Anthony is incredibly knowledgeable and passionate
Glad to see Tony getting the credit he deserves....Dudes a genius.
Great to see you at the show Don. Let's catch up soon.
Thanks! for doing this video with Anthony. Their story definitely needs to be told to wider public. We just finished our Grimani Theater and absolutely love it!
Wow! Congrats on your Grimani Home Theater. And thank you for the generous Super Thanks!
Grimanis enthusiasm is so contagious. Living Legend
I could listen, and have done, to hrs and hrs of Anthony apeaking. Always feel like I will learn something useful and practical.
Man, i could listen to Anthony for hours.
I like Anthony G and the knowledge that he has and everything that he’s brought to the home theater world and the fact that he and his team have been able to make a speaker system that is really next level. Thanks Michael for letting us see this system and behind the scenes audio amplification and total control layout.
Anthony is the man! Love hearing him speak. Thanks. 👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾
I will never be able to afford a Grimani system. But I imagine it sounds better than anything I have ever heard.
Never say never
only different, after listening to a LOT of speakers, its only different
@@MaxTheMiracle Did you get a chance to listen to them in Sound Room 10 at the CEDIA?
Great stuff, Anthony is a legend!
@Youthman I have been looking forward to this in depth with Grimani interview! Thank you!
The backstory on this was kind of fun. Michael was supposed to do a video for Grimani Systems and Seymour Screens. But as is often the case, Anthony loves to discuss audio and his passion is contagious so Michael ended up spending a lot more time than scheduled. But the result is a tremendous video that isn't the normal brand commercial, but a great education on where the technology on our industry should be going based on his expertise.
I've been working with Anthony the past few months, and it's great to see great products built by people that have a demonstrated passion for supporting the industry, and yet I was surprised by how many people know who he is, but never knew he had a line of speakers designed from the specific needs he's found while building more than 1,000 systems.
I like this guy. He really seems to understand that the engineering is its own topic. He doesn't try to use big words to sound like he knows what he's talking about.
Exactly! He has as much passion as he does understanding. We need more Anthony grimanis and less jay iyagis lol
@@I_drive_over_dogs_n_dont_stop appreciated, and I'm sure we can help accomplish that in the coming year. 😉
Audio over IP is soooo cool! I had no idea. Thanks for the education!!
I'm sure we will be talking more about this in the future, so stay tuned.
Wowwww amazing!!!
My mentor! It was my great pleasure and honor to attend THX training back in 2002 when Anthony was still teaching most of the week-long course there in Marin. His philosophies are classical/timeless, which I've always considered largely based around the concept of "just do it right/well." I have always specifically embraced his pursuit of the experience for the listening area, rather than a sweet spot. Easy to say...not so easy to find speakers that can do it...which is why Anthony has produced his own line that can deliver it. I adopted his teaching and philosophies in my business model for clients here in Arizona, and in my home system. I will absolutely use his systems at the first opportunity. Thank you, Anthony, for your intellect, passion, and energy over the years.
Lol how does Cedia give an award just looking at a speaker and reading the specs. You just know Anthony would be offended by this! Unlike potentially other companies Anthony went to ocd lengths over 6 years to get an award before its even heard. I would be pissed off knowing the blood sweat and tears over 6 years waiting to be judged to see the feedback and get judged to really get into the minds of the judges because negative feedback and honesty is key to improving and then to find out you’ve won before it’s even been listened to. What bs! you want to know you’ve earned the award and Anthony 100% has, but it’s a kick in the teeth for the upcoming anthonys of the audio world who may not get an award because the specs may not be as good but may sound better in a normal environment due to other factors. Does this mean any Tom dick and Harry can come out next year with specs exceeding Anthony’s on pen and paper and they will get an award? Specs may be lies! Now I know this is not the case, but theoretically it could have been and I could do it next year if I know for sure cedia can’t even be bothered listening before handing out awards. Where’s the integrity? The world is already filled with audiophiles and fake specs you’d think a prestigious awards woukd onky be given with a proper judgement. Remember if Anthony was a conman and lied on his specs and won an award, the reviewrs (which 90% think they can hear the difference in cables and amps etc) woukd also give a high praise and then what happens? People buy it based on awards and reviews. Remember the fiasco with the starke ad4 amplifier? That got jay iyagis amplifier of the year 320w into 4 ohms. The amp was a pos yet every reviewer said it was good. It could barely hit 60w and was really really bad. So bad in fact the product was quickly discontinued and replaced. But jay iyagi (who has cried listening to a speaker before and once described a dac as “a mixture between white chocolate and milk chocolate but I haven’t eaten white chocolate before” gave this inferior amplifier product of the year. Anthony is the complete opposite to this subjective bs exclaimed by these audiophile reviewrs. Now if cedia can’t even test it before giving an award what chance has the industry got of transparency? Not all of us are gullible and listen to mr Thomas and friends, jay iyagi and Andrew Robinson. The industry needs more people like Anthony and more people to make some noise about the current bs going on. At the end of the day if we as consumers want great innovative products with improving sound that can be proven to be better, we need to call out reviewers first but also cedia for their lazy approach. I’m sure Anthony is offended and no one wins going forward. This is why people think the industry is a joke with $70000 cables and unregulated jargon
@@I_drive_over_dogs_n_dont_stop Just to be clear, I'm fairly sure that Anthony said it was CEPro, the publisher, not CEDIA that made that award without hearing. I share your concern, though.
@@I_drive_over_dogs_n_dont_stop I hear what you are saying, and in some ways it is difficult with some of these awards. I can explain the process though and why I can guarantee the Grimani Systems speaker deserved to win, and yet I do have an issue with how some of the awards are handed out.
When we submit an award, in our case, we provide an overview of what makes the speaker special. That may be technology, sound, build quality, etc. Along with that, we include measurements on the speakers, which of course as you mentioned could be faked, but it's not typically some random company that wins, because it isn't just about specs. Things like brand and pedigree have to do with it as well, which can prevent a barrier to entry, but in the case of this, we have a newer speaker (by competitive brand definition) that has added integrator and consumer friendly benefits like networked audio, DSP, the ability to remotely monitor and modify the settings of the amplifiers, and of course then have the data to show how they sound, and why they sound the way they do. Judging is then done by a group of people that may not have heard this speaker in this case, but have heard this or the previous speaker in a previous demo through the years.
It's not perfect, and I can't say that sometimes it feels like new categories are created or a marketing focused product doesn't beat out a better product, but that's true of anything subjective or voted on by committee. We all have slightly different ears, so individual preference has to be reduced, and the number I've always been told is that 86% of hte time the speaker that performs the best on paper, us usually preferred when doing a double-blind.
And in this case, I fully believe they deserved to win, so fair outcome achieved!!! 😉😜
Awards like the AVS Forum Best of CEDIA award are super-appreciated though because they came in, did a demo, and then spent a bunch of time talking to everyone that made the room possible before deciding to present us with an award.
I have a video from like 10 years ago where he basically gives away the formula to make a room sound good. It's the best video out there to this date. Back then he was my secret, now everyone knows his name.
Yeah lol I’ve watched it several times and like how he doesn’t follow the same old symmetrical approach and had the evidence and reasoning behind the unconventional approach
I love that at about 11mins in you hear the distinctive Ready Player One Race scene horn 😂
Every Home Cinema fan has heard that scene way too many times 😄
LOL, between Ready player One and the booths still playing The Greatest Showman, it can get a bit old when you hear them every 10 minutes for three days straight. Yet it is always cool to show to friends that haven't seen it 1,000 times already. 🤣
the sale pitch is better sound for more people. But if you only build for one seat really good seat? Do you compromise there?
well he did say he designed his speaker for every seat.
I understand the question, and the answer is no. There is still always a sweet spot, what he is trying to accomplish is to widen the dispersion so that the "drop" in performance isn't as drastic for the rest of the seats. If you go through the data on the rooms, they sound amazing from any spot, the goal is just to make sure you don't need to play musical chairs with the guy two seats over and one row back. If you only have 1-3 seats, it's still going to sound amazing.
I'm getting ready to build a 3-seat with a bar row behind, and I'm confident my sweet spot will still sound amazing, as well as the other seats around me.
Very exciting technology!
Great video! Thank you so much for taking this time and going behind the scenes for us!!!
GOAT
Maybe I am picking nits here but, Mr Grimani talks about how going to Audio over IP eliminates the potential of a speaker cable getting unplugged and having a mess of wires.
With each speaker driver in each speaker getting their own power, wouldn't that mean you are increasing that potential significantly??
If there was an RJ45 network cable going to each speaker with the amplifiers build in, and not in the rack, then yes I could that as being an advantange.
As an network admin I look to more companies implementing this and not leaving it in the Pro Audio word.
Blu Sound Professional has a line of PoE powered network speakers that look perfect. Built in network streamer and amplification built into each speaker.
Good question. Power cables seat in pretty well, and while they could become unplugged, and can have differing ground-loops , the issues most theaters have are:
1. When you have 20+ RCA or XLR cables in a theater rack, they are often terminated by hand for a cleaner more rack-length-specific look. Even if they are pre-terminated, they are often super close together, and get bumped a lot, resulting in a termination inside the connector breaking off, which you don't know because it's inside the big XLR cable. This means hunting it down.
2. In regards to hum and noise, this often comes down to different products being on different grounds, often even different branches of power. Think for most subwoofers, the amplifier is on the subwoofer itself, so it's plugged into a totally different plug/wire/branch than the rack might be on. Or you might have a rack in one area, and a source unit in a different room. All of these things increase the likelihood of chasing down a ground-loop hum.
With an Ethernet cable, unless you use a grounded cable which isn't needed, the connection between the two is floating, so it eliminates the issue of products with different grounds being connected. So while, each product has a potential for a slightly different ground-loop, using digital connections and unshielded Ethernet cable, the hum and noise related to ground differences and analog pick up of system noise are relatively eliminated.
This is how it's been taught to me briefly by both Storm and Anthony. There is likely more technical reasoning behind it, but for me it's a problem/solution discussion that I think is amazing, having spent a ton of time hunting down hums and noise in systems... 😉
Let me know if you think anything I explained was unclear or incorrect, and I'm happy to go back to the source, but I believe this should be a high-level overview and accurate.
@@mrktmkrthanks for the well thoughtout reply.
My comment was more so focusing on when Anthony mentioned there will be less speaker wire, when in fact there is more since his awesome speakers are running active.
The reason there are no group loops, is that you cannot add in distortion in a packet based network system. If the network is dropping packets, you will get choppy or no audio, which can be a pain in its own right.
great information. i would definitely love to hear his speakers one day!
This is terrific, definitely one of the best videos in your channel, Michael. Thank you for sharing.
Glad you enjoyed the video
Holy moly Anthony is a genius. This technology will change the game going forward. Unbelievable. Man with enough money this is an end game system. Mind blown.
naaaa, I see it all the time, and it is not, you all have to remember that not always different is better ;)
@@MaxTheMiracle I'm curious as to what part isn't better? Realistically, his speakers, designs, and calibration win awards every year based on objective criteria, and everyone that went through the room was pretty impressed with the sound in the room. Plus quicker installation, more control over the DSP curves, and the ability to remotely troubleshoot and eliminate hum and noise in the system are all pretty objectively better than the classic design of a 2-channel or PA speaker.
Love to hear where you see Atmos level configuration over networked audio using AES67 or Dante, digital level DSP that can be crossed over far more accurately than a crossover, and the ability to remotely monitor your speakers, so if there ever is a failure you know right away. As well as the ability to remotely calibrate and correct something the client doesn't like from anywhere in the world.
@@mrktmkr It will be decades probably much longer before networked audio even comes into the mainstream for the average consumer (though it's good Grimani and some others are making it available now)
Even in developed countries like the USA, UK the Internet infrastructure is pretty poor. And even if you do live in a area with high speed Internet and can afford it, dropouts etc can happen at any time! Eventually in the far future the Internet will be much more stable when the technology and infrastructure catches up...
But currently still a place for analogue speakers which are the majority sold and will continue to be sold for many years to come. And some high end ones like from Perlisten etc are as good as the best digital active speakers on the market.
Digital active speakers (without needing a Internet connection while playing, apart from initial setup) will eventually overtake analogue speakers. But again it will take quite a while until that happens. Some great reference digital active speakers like GGNTKT M1 & M3 on the market.
Anyway it's great Anthony Grimani along with others are continuing to push the boundaries of audio home cinema music 🎬🎶
@@MaxTheMiracle Audio over IP Internet won't be in the mainstream for most consumers anytime soon! But it's still good Grimani and a few others are making it available now. Does have some useful advantages like easily checking in seconds to see if any problems on the system.
But currently analogue speaker systems will remain the majority in low end to high end. Similarly to how electric vehicles sales won't match petrol vehicles until a very long time.
Eventually digital active speakers will be much more mainstream. It will take time just like it took a long time for class D amplifiers to match sales then overtake class A amplifiers.
Audio over IP Internet that will take much longer to become mainstream. As the Internet even in developed countries is poor with regular dropouts etc.
Probably a new future cable wire system that is more robust high data transfer will be the default on speakers in the future. Without it actually needing a Internet connection.
@@C--A I didn’t address the AoIO , I see nothing wrong with it , for cedía and large places is a good alternative , but is not better sounding, in any case you have a fixed rate so there will be applications but is not for everyone .-
And about the speaker again I didn’t said they were bad or anything , just that they are for a different market , again like cedía , or large places , he didn’t invent anything new , he say it himself in the video , what I don’t like is the praise for something different , nothing else , maybe I’m getting old :)
Think he could have filled a whole hour
So many knowledge bombs there 👍
Anthony is a true treasure of the HT community and I’m super jelly that you got to hang out and talk shop w him!! I’ve known of his speakers for a while and have demoed a space in Europe that his company basically fielded from cradle to grave and was immediately captivated. I’m playing the lottery to see if I can make that dream come true lol
Switching my account so it's a bit more official, but this is still Brett Bjorkquist. I work with Anthony and Grimani Systems to help him with education and engagement with both integrators and the consumer forums. I always try to keep an eye on the comments in case their are questions, and wanted to give a quick thanks to Michael and Anthony for posting such a great educational video. As someone who's been in the industry for more than 20 years, AoIP is something that should be getting used in more and more theaters in the coming years. I've understood it from the commercial side, but it slays so many of our dragons when it comes to chasing down ground loop hums, or trying to terminate all the XLR cables for a tidy rack. However, I will be volunteering to dress the rack next years, as that rack wasn't really supposed to be shown since as Michael mentioned, it was literally behind the scenes.... 😭🤣
I was able to help at this year's CEDIA, (you can see me with the Tommy Bahamas shirt as we weren't supposed to be filming yet!!! 😱 The room sounded great, and I was happy we got to introduce people that know and love Anthony from his design and calibration trainings , to his speakers which many didn't know he made.
I'll be around, but if you have any specific questions, feel free to tag me and I will do my best to get you an answer since I love this stuff as much as you do.
i missed the AOIP train when he did my theater that i was telling his business developer Trevor having just finished ours in July!. Still overall working great if I can get some of my KScape issues fixed. Working with the Forum and tech support on dropped transmits
@@gregheard6024 let me know if you can't get the Kaleidescape issues resolved. Who are you working with over there? I love my Kaleidescape, but I do experience some drops on occasion. It can be tough to pinpoint it between HDMI handshake protocols, internet in the moment, as well as HDMI length, or balun contributions. I did work there for a few years and still handle all of their integrator education though, so if I can help let me know.
We will have to connect in the next few weeks as I've heard about the room a bit from Anthony, and would love to learn more about it.
@@jeroenk3570 technically Dante is it's own protocol, similar to and compatible with AES67 and all of which are under the umbrella of AoIP. In this case both StormAudio and Grimani Systems were using AES67 specifically, but both have the capability of using Dante as well, so yes they are both compatible. If you already have or are looking at other products on one platform or another, from the Grimani standpoint, you would usually choose one or the other, since they do use a different card, but either card is included in the price, and if for some reason you switched camps later on, it would just require a card swap from AES67 to Dante.
The easiest way to think about it is you have the topic of Audio-over-IP. In order to accomplish that a general standards was created, which is AES67. It has a wide assortment of interoperability because it is an open standard. Because companies like to design their own IP (intellectual property), Dante and Ravenna were created and are owned/licensed by those companies. They may add their own secret sauce or focus on different areas, but the heart of it is compatible with AES67 standards.
Making all corrections and crossover in the digital domain is true and I like this design decision about the speakers not even have a crossover.
But the argument regarding noise and ground loop etc. is kinda misleading since they are still doing all to digital to analog conversion here in the rack, so it doesn't change anything.
The good idea would actually be to extend those network cables to the speakers and only do the digital to analog conversion and amplification there.
Great interview. (why are the mics popping? )
Always nice to have insights and depth to how and why our hobby and technology got to where it is now a days.
Fantastic!
I think it was due to the RF interference from the show.
@Youthman ...Aye.. it cleared up after. I was wondering.. didnt seem to be from movement or the shirt. 🙏🙏👍🏻👍🏻
Yeah, it was definitely some type of interference with the transmitter. I ordered the new RODE Wireless Pro the day. They announced it, but it was only one week before CEDIA, and did not arrive in time.
@@Youthman Yeah, anything wireless or BT can often have a hard time at the show, especially depending on how close you are to other equipment.
@@Youthman I just got my hands on a new wireless mic setup that lets me run 4-mics with a receiver. I can't wait to test this out in a larger group environment and see how it does. I hadn't seen it in stores yet, so I used my manufacturing connections to find it. I'll let you know as I get it tested out.
I can't wait for AES67 to become a speaker standard. We already have wireless speakers, but if you want to run everything off a wired network instead of running speaker cable, this would be a pretty cool idea. And besides, network cabling is WAY cheaper than speaker cabling.
Correct, Anthony mentions this isn’t a new technology, just new for the Home Theater space
@@jeroenk3570 I know that. I mean for consumer-level speakers. Why are we still using speaker wire and such when we have PoE and IP control?
@@jeroenk3570 correct. 70 volt speakers, and what's needed for a true home theater speaker are still different, but with networked audio we can at least minimize the noise and errors in the system, while simplifying setup.
it mainly comes to cost of redesigning and building new product. If people keep asking for the same-old speakers, than there is no reason for them to spend the money required for proper R&D. Now with Anthony, the perspective is different. After building 1,000+ systems, he's looking for something that specifically sounds better and is easier/faster to install, and has fewer issues. It's a need-based product rather than just wanting to sell a speaker. If JBL or Triad or any of the others had been willing to build something better, than the speakers wouldn't exist. But if you are designing something where you get to pick from the best technology in each area, and aren't stuck using the same tweeter or driver technology you've been pitching for 30+ years, it's a lot quicker and more efficient from a product development perspective.
I could talk on this for hours, having built a few hundred products, and, but the main takeaway is that supporting products like this, force the larger manufactures to up their game as well, which means everyone wins ultimately with better sound, performance, and technology.
I built a $500,000 home theater using gramani system here in Las Vegas for a client. Definitely some good stuff.
It’s definitely awesome. He just finished mine in July and live here as well in Las Vegas.
Maybe Grimani would be interested in sponsoring a trip to Vegas to feature both of your theaters.
@@Youthman I’d be 100% for it. Love to have you out and ready to hit the buy button on my MWAVE tickets for next year!!
Feel free to submit your theater here and I can reach out to Anthony to see if he is interested - hometheatertours.com/home-theater-submit/
@@Youthman will definitely work on that this week
Such a clever guy. His Audioholics lecture series on youtube is superb. Got me reading Floyd Toole too lol.
The part with Audio Over IP is just awesome to see, and considering I like both networking and audio, this just is pretty dang sweet to see. I can totally see this allowing you to keep the processor close to all the sources (Say if you have a lot like I do) and decide to just have the amps located in a completely separate space... Running a single cat5 or 6 cable would just be easy and clean compared to a ton of longer runs of XLR cables.
Agreed. Now originally the idea was keeping the amps built into the speaker, since it's super simple from a general installation standpoint. The issues comes when trying to put the speakers in the wall, since there are electrical that prevent that, plus, if a speaker ever fails, it can be a lot more work trying to pull the walls down, especially if they are covered in material. However, even if you want to keep the source and processor a bit more easy to reach, you could rack the other components in another room to keep heat and noise out of the room, and still not worry about ground-loop differences between the two section.
There are just so many cool applications with this that make it so much simpler for any of us to install, plus the ability to monitor and make changes remotely from a PC is finally providing the level of technology we should be expecting for the price of speakers at this performance level.
Thanks for the comment.
Great system and building philosophy, but I can't understand why there were used due, quattrocanali & mezzo line instead of 3 or 4 Ottocanali's ?
Great question. I'll ask him if he wants to provide a more specific answer, but the quick answer would be that the amps are designed to be sold with a specific speaker. Think of it as an active speaker, which is usually built into the speaker, but they are separated so that the speaker can be mounted in-wall, or if there is a failure, you don't have to tear apart the fabric walls to get to the amp.
He stocks the amp he's matched to each speaker just like he does drivers, boxes, etc. and they are already programmed, tested, and loaded with the proper DSP for that specific speaker. It's not just selling a speaker, and then recommending an amp, at which point, as you mentioned, they have an 8-channel that could likely save a bit of space. He might have a technical reason for one product over the other, but that's the general idea. He sells a 4-channel amp with the 4-way speaker, and a 2-channel amp with the 2-way, although as he mentioned, if he knows it will be use din a pair, he might sell a 4-channel to save some space and cost.
Appreciate the comment, and if you want to know anything else, just let me know.
@@brettbjorkquist2508, thank you, yeah maybe it was a part of "quick replacement" component service if there is some issue may come with the amp/channel. Or maybe there is some problem in Armonia software limitations, but I saw several racks stacks full of powersoft amps (even the famous photo with X8's for a Japanese stadium) and as far as i know they can ba addressed (to hf, mf & lf as you mentioned be like a part of active crossover to one speaker) easily. Appreciate if you'll ask and tell us more details.
@@user-md1cf1gy3vwill do, and yes, having to replace one channel, rather than having multiple go out is an efficiency and cost benefit. I'll see if Anthony has anything to add though, but I agree that using the Ottocanali should be a realistic way to go since the channels can be assigned, which is the beauty of a digital amplification and DSP system.
What an impressive theatre system! I think the form and design of the speakers has a stunning commercial aesthetic. I certainly wouldn't want to hide them in my home theater. What a compelling set up. The demonstration must be sensational.
Thanks. Objectively they sounded great, and I had a ton of comments that echoed this. I agree they look cool, and anyone that wants to show them off certainly can. The main thing though is also that a lot of marketing and materials isn't spent on the mirror finish and custom paints that are then still hidden behind a screen or fabric. But personally I love the look of the acoustic panels and speakers on the wall, it just doesn't always get an upvote from everyone else in the house, so it's nice to know they can be hidden when needed.
I'm going to actually split the difference in my new build. They will be hidden behind an acoustically transparent wall with some cool movie-inspired artwork, and then have lighting behind them that can be turned on when I want to show the actual speaker wall. I'm going to also try to custom build a setup so that the panels can be opened to make it easier to move things around or show off the equipment as needed. All it takes is time and money, although I'm going to try for more time and engineering than money... 😂
Awesome interview and information. Thanks for your efforts, Michael!
Very curious what the other side of that “S” curved piece of PVC tube looked like inside the room.
Is it behind another wall, surrounded by insulation?
No sound coming through a simple “S” curved section of PVC only filled with cabling seems like it would be a sieve for all the explosive audio in that (or any) home theater room, no?
It’s recommended to use putty pads, acoustical sealants, etc around every outlet, fill every drywall seam with sealant, use door bottom seals, use dead vents or similar for HVAC yet the PVC tube running from inside the room to outside the room with only cables in it doesn’t allow any sound to escape?
In a permanent installation, putty pads and other methods further reduce the transmission of sound. In this case, it's a bit different because the outside sound was at least 85db, and the inside the room sound was about 75db, so sound transmission was happening no matter what. The idea of an s-bend is that the sounds dissipates and breaks up as it gets bounced around, so it isn't as strong, and likewise doesn't introduce as much noise into the room. On the inside, the bend ran into our acoustically transparent material, and we had absorbers and reflectors on either side, which further reduced and scattered any sound.
So you are right, and if we were trying to get build a
@@mrktmkr Gotcha, I appreciate your time and thanks for the reply!
Sounds like nexo's hyperboloid waveguide...
Looks like some sort of Dante variation. I wish all equipment was networked this way
Both StormAudio and Grimani Systems can utilize either AES67 or Dante with a corresponding card. AES67 is the standard for networked audio, and Dante is built from that standard but is owned by a company that adds its own secret sauce and therefore requires its own licensing. So AES67 is perhaps a bit more open for interoperability, but Dante is great as well and equally supported by Anthony's speakers and the StormAudio processor.
Agreed though, and I think in the next few years you will find more and more products wired this way. It just speeds up installation and eliminates so many potential issues.
Thanks for all your videos Youthman !!! Always get inspired
Appreciate you David
most comprehensive video about their room. nicely done. do you know how much power each of the Mezzos were for the surrounds and ceilings?
What a legend
I wonder if grimani worked with Ken kreisel? That would be a cool partnership for a speaker line in the USA.
Anthony is a fkn genius! I love this guy. He’s OCD and passionate. Anyone that talks like he’s excited obviously is proud to show something genuinely better then the rest. Now a few of these ideas were already on my “why dont companies do this already” list.
I was looking at a JBL synthesis processor purely for dante because to me it was obvious the pros of using ethernet instead of analogue. Then obviously anything done in the digital domain won’t suffer from analogue issues. To be honest I also wanted some high spec dacs x8 to have hifi stereo quality or at least have the option to try it. But anyways, and the man started with room correction which isn’t hammered in hard enough whether it’s stereo or home theatre. It’s amazing people like my dad who will buy a $12000 pre amp yet is half dead and has 4 brick walls in a relatively empty room. All the gear and no idea, too much dollars and not enough sense. Now the other thing I love is how he has labeled the speakers and how he did not give a fk about speajer aesthetics. You don’t need no esoteric Italian leather speajer which some proprietary untested patented design which is waffle that sucks gullible people in. In fact people like me woukd always go function over form. The speakers are highly technical yet he explained it very easily and I like how he mentioned what most people don’t realise that the only difference between the speakers is not the quality but the loudness (maybe except bass extension but only realistically need 80hz) I guarantee most people don’t need the large speakers but people cannot psychologically get over the idea that a kid loudness grimani speaker will probably suffice 99% of the time. I like how he is showing the use of standard ethernet cables. If it’s good enough for Anthony then audiophiles take note, please don’t listen to reviewrs!!! They will tell you ethernet cables make a difference! Anthony’s knowledge and passion made me get of my arse and actually write a comment. Probably my first comment that doesn’t involve arguing with someone haha.
This is the future. Ethernet for audio, trying to di everything in the digital domain including crossovers and room treatment first. I can’t imagine how frustrated Anthony must be when people tell him stuff like “I don’t want to eq” or don’t want dsp. As though they thoroughly know why and have experience. It blows my mind how “purists” have these old myths stuck in their heads that are quite well known unfortunately due to many “respected audiophiles” mutter. With anythonys room treatment, the speakers and the right gear after being fine tuned I cannot think of anything that would come close to perfection. Yet people woukd rather spend their money on big brand name speakers that aren’t home theatre oriented and will diy a couple of panels. If anyone has done any sort of reading into acoustics the math involved is insane! Think about this, every material in your room has different amounts of absorption and reflection and it’s different again for the angle to the speaker then it’s broken up to each octave absorbing different amounts. Multiply that by every surface and then the psychoacoustic while bring the reverb time collectively down to a threshold so not to confuse the brain. I was stunned that there were only 30 pages of calculations! I too like anythony like to explain audio in terms of video analogies. I say loudness is brightness, contrast is dynamic range. Smearing is blurriness etc the one thing I wish I had experience with is understanding the pros of wide angle wave guides. I understand and like the equal off axis response but the cons are the wider you go the more walls reflect it. Even with this it’s predictable now. However for selfish people like me I’m wondering how something like a 20 degree waveguide would go for people like me who will always sit in the sweet spot and know 90% of people sitting around me can’t even tell the difference or care about not getting sweet spot sound. The pros I would have though would be more accurate sound with less blur due to a higher SPL coming directly from speaker first. I imagine the soubd would always be superior at the MLP and imagine a 16 channel system all with narrow beam patterns. Advantages would be that because you have so many speakers you don’t need such a wide dispersion meaning you would still get overlap at 20 degrees because you have so many speakers anyways and room interactions would be less. To take this to an extreme would be for example a 11.4.8 setup all with 20 degree wave guides (or less) giving you pinpoint sound in a overtreated room vs a 5.4 with 100 degree wide dispersion. My theory is the former would give pinpoint precision with little reverb so dialogue would be crystal clear and soubd coming from a clear direction vs the latter a sphere of blur caused by the room and not the audio engineers intention. I understand that this is probably the middle ground but I’m wondering if theoretically the former is true but from a busibess perspective these 20 degree speakers would only service a niche of a niche so may not be financially viable. But if my theory is true, I wonder if Anthony could design the speaker with swappable wave guides like the stock 70 degree to 50 30 20 with the narrow ones used in systems with at least 9 or more bed layer. These would be super cheap to build but understand the initial design may take long. I’m so glad there are new standards produced in a 130 page document to. I think most integrators need a smaller threshold for quality and I’m glad it now exists. Literally this is the only question I would have to possibly improve more on the sound. Selfish people like me with 16+ speakers who would rather have even better sound using narrow wave guides than worry about the others in the room who dont even have 10% the passion or care factor that can’t tell the difference anyways. Would love to hear other people’s thoughts
Absolutely as we add more speakers we improve on the precision of directionality of sounds. As you mentioned, it's tough to make a speaker with too narrow of a dispersion since you don't know how many speakers, the size of the room, mounting requirements, or general room/material deign that can all impact that sound, especially since we know so much of what we hear is reflective, even when a speaker is aimed directly at you.
As you mentioned, room design, acoustics, and DSP are so important in the final outcome of a room. I see systems all the time with great speakers that sound only marginally good in a room, and conversely good speakers that sound great in a room that is properly designed. That's because people are referencing 2-channel thinking in a surround-sound design, and they don't 100% correlate. That sweet spot in a 2-channel room is great because they are often listening alone in a room, and often an open room rather than a sealed theater room. Now add 4-12 more seats, and while we want our seat to sound best, I'd be pissed if there was a 20-50db change between seats in the bass frequencies, which can actually happen. Yet manufacturers will jump at the chance of taking their 2-channel designed speaker, and just selling more of them to create surround sound without understanding the implications on the room.
That's why these speakers are soo cool. Setup is digital to remove the unwanted noise gremlins that legitly drive us crazy. Then DSP out the room, so that the speakers can sound as close to the way they measure at 1w/1m (because they rarely do once you put them in a room), and then if you need a bit of a bump somewhere to personally enjoy it more, go for it, but you should be starting with as close to a perfect canvas as possible, and most speakers or auto-DSP systems don't really allow for that to happen.
Cool Anthony G! Running digital to the speakers is what I wanted to build 4 years ago! But too hard for someone like me with limited time and funding to do the experiments you’ve done over the years.
The only change I would do is run Cat 6 and power to amps behind each speaker. That would eliminate speaker cable effects but might conflict with building codes running that many power cords vs speaker wire which can run in the walls.
Consider running USB C and Extended Power Range of 240 watts for the last few feet to the amps behind the speakers. As you mentioned, this design eliminates ground loops, most analog issues, speaker cross-over distortions, and many XLR cable problems. Room correction fixes time domain, speaker imperfections, and room mode issues. I like your take on room treatments! Thought I would see bass traps in the corners. Interesting to see what AI could do.
Keep up,the great work! Congrats on the massive award your team won!
Are you able to create Chapters.
Chapters have already been created. 😉
mmm im an old enthusiast , that since TosLink is out love Digital, thats why I love the Receivers with big juice like A1H or X8500 from Denon before
and its really silly to see here, that this man, wich i really respect is saying exactly what i thought since day one
what i dont like is that people still believe that Separates are better that lets say this A1H when you have to have XLR or RCA connections between them.....
Not precarious placement on that projector in any way!
With a projector that bright, mounting it that high reduces the risk of liability from eye damage.
@@Youthman oh I wasn’t commenting on the height… that makes sense based on the needs of the space… just the stack of stuff on the rack to get it up to that height
Ah I misunderstood
LOL, it was pretty solid. The issue honestly came from the wrong sized rack being sent. It was deeper than needed, and not the right height. The team (Evan at Seymour Screen Excellence) built the first riser, which he even carpeted and was totally solid, especially for a temporary structure. Then when we finally got the projector from Barco, and had already cut the glass port, we realized it was to low. So Evan built an additional riser which is what you see above the carpeted one. It was totally secure, but we were all commenting on the same thing as we were hoisting it into place.
there was another booth (to remain nameless) that was just pelican cases and pallets stacked. It's a 3-day show and generally nobody goes back there, but it is always interesting when you start looking at the costs of some of the equipment, and how it's stacked. The true definition of "Don't try this at home"
@@mrktmkr such is the trade show experience! Thanks for the extra context!