The most boat for your money? Bavaria C38 yacht test by Yachting Monthly
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 22 เม.ย. 2021
- Competition is hot for high volume cruisers, but have Bavaria built a boat that is fun to sail as well as spacious and affordable? Theo Stocker took her for a spin to find out.
For the full review, specs and prices, see www.yachtingmonthly.com/BavariaC38
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Mainly honest and thorough review by a not obnoxious person with a pleasant personality an excellent vocalization.
Toby is not obnoxious.
Are we back to the olden days (2010s) of Yachting Monthly, where the good video reviews are of great quality, frequent, and long!?
AGREE! They needed this guy.
We're certainly planning to be... watch this space
Well i for one would like a long and thoughtful review by people who actually sailed before, in other words sailors .
The reason that this is of the utmost importance is , most of us can only go through this episode once in our lives. Also most of the prudent sailors will research this to death over many years with all options at stake .
The ms. And i have it down to a spread sheet .
The biggest option is the most overlooked , and that is the option of a lifestyle change not options included actually fitted to the boat .
Having said that , all of the sudden any yacht is fair game (within the scope of things) of course.
So yes a proper salesman is important .
⬆️ love to see you with your 'dock side' spread sheet down below while sailing.
Big shoes to fill because Chris Beeson was the best and I'd say this Theo fills them rather well. good job.
Great review. Thanks for going through the rig/mainsheet details and not just reading us the sales brochure.
Excellent review work, much more honest and informative than ninety percent of the reviews i have seen lately. Keep up the good work!
Thanks, will do!
cant wait for the next sailing season
would like more reviews from this guy. well done.
great honest review cheers. It's nice for a change to hear the good AND the bad!!!
Nice boat! Thanks for the thorough review, really nice to have a good look around everything! Amazing how extras boost the price up.
This boat was specced up with almost all the options. You could get one with fewer options for a lot less money
Great video, informative and to the point, well done every one.
Thank you for giving proper attention to the sailing capabilities and technical details, and not only reviewing it from a 'stay on board' point of view, like some other reviews often are.
This certainly is an elegant, comfortable and fast sailingboat. And good for daysailing with family and friends. Or for charter companies. But in my opinion it's not a boat for the more adventurous sailor, not a true offshore boat. The cockpit is too big if you are out in serious weather and you are thrown around and you don't find a grip to hold on. Same inside the salon, no handrails anywhere. And in big breaking following seas, when the cockpit with the quite open stern gets flooded, I wouldn't trust these plastic doors to keep the ocean outside of the boat. Furthermore I don't expect any solosailer, beeing washed by a big wave overboard, even tied by a lifeline to this boat, has a real chance to climb back on board. No ladder, no grip, no nothing. So, all in all I see this more as a comfortable apartment near the water and toy for some over paid managers. But if I were willing to spend this amount of money I would buy something smaller, better and more capable.
@@helmrichharms2225I’m considering this boat, but your comments give me pause. I ask myself how often would I find myself out in serious weather? I would pick my weather windows and only occasionally get caught in serious weather. How many times has a solo sailor been thrown overboard? I personally would always be well Jack-lined and tethered. If you were willing to spend $250K USD what newer “smaller, better and more capable” boat would you get?
@@EnglishCoachChad like I said: nice and fast boat, as long as you use it in moderate conditions for coastal sailing. How often you would find yourself in serious weather? Depends on...but be sure, earlier or later you will experience heavier weather than expected from the forecast. At least I did during my last 40 years of sailing.
How many times have solosailors been thrown over board? More often than you would expect. But few of them had the chance to tell. In my recollection Bernard Montessier and Wilfried Erdmann (both famous circumnavigators) are survivors of such a horrible experience. Eric Tabarly, the winner of the OSTAR 1964 was washed overboard summer 1998 in the Irish sea and drowned.
Newer smaller, better, more capable boats?
www.hallberg-rassy.com/de/yachten/altere-modelle/hallberg-rassy-37/ Halberg-Rassys of Frere's design sail very well!
And in the Netherlands there are several boatbilders who are specialized in Aluminium offshore boats.
All boats of the famous Dutch Yachtdesigner Dick Koopmans are especially good at offshore sailing. And they are fast as well. Dick Koopmans won several offshore regattas in boats of his own design.
m.th-cam.com/video/pc5ZTyKLZeM/w-d-xo.html Round Britain Race 1990 in a Victoire 8.55
m.th-cam.com/video/6dt_7p6FuQ8/w-d-xo.html Dick Koopmans finishing 2nd in his class in 2009 OSTAR
www.dickkoopmans.nl/over_ons/het_ontwerpbureau.html
Just some examples of good all weather offshore boats. And are lightly used within your price range in Holland and France.
I wrote this comment sitting in the cockpit of a Bavaria 37
@@helmrichharms2225
Thanks for your response.
The newer Hallberg Rassy boats are out of my price range.
I would have to get a 15+ year old boat.
I would rather get a newer boat because I feel like design has evolved.
I’m looking at a Hanse 348 right now.
I found an interesting post that covers this topic of offshore vs. “so-called-coastal cruiser”:
interestingsailboats.blogspot.com/2014/03/stability-1-misleading-boats-hanse-345.html
You wrote your comment in the cockpit of a Bavaria 37.
I wrote my comment sitting on my sofa.
So…. Maybe I should take you advise.😅
@@EnglishCoachChad 😁😎
A boat review that is actually critical!
Good job, I think I'll be back.
Outstanding review.
Hoping for more of Mr. Stocker (and not just new boats). Give us some of that 'you *might be able to afford it' but this is what to look for.
Plans for used boat tests afoot too.
The boat does not fulfill my approach, but thats not what my comment is about.
It's good to have you back. Decent and informative video. But you may keep an eye (or an ear) on your mic; the sound quality does not fit to the rest. Thumbs up. I really enjoy your reviews.
'How much is it going to cost?' Well addressed final and vital question which makes the review.
Great review. Really helps expand on the print article. Glad I ditched my YW subscription for YM now!
These reviews are so very good! And put you in the yacht. Well done indeed.
Glad you like them!
i like the yacht but you not say how much electric power it has and no solar ? also your review was the best i seen so far of this beautiful c38
brilliant expose of the `Bavaria... Really nice to have a fairly detailed view of this new boat. Thanks
This was a great video. A real review well done!
Great video! Love the intro very syring intro
7:47 this boat really needs a traveler arch aft. You could see how your mate in red was struggling to pull the main in. Looks like there's not much clearance for a larger winch handle either. I didn't catch if those are two speed winches.
i agree more clearance for a larger handle and or bigger winches but i dont think it needs an arch this sheeting system works well on much larger boats so an arch is not needed at all. and the winches are hopefully 2 speed if not i would not trust them i mean 2 speed has been standard since the 80s!!. on our boat we have 2 speed electric winches that also have reverse!
The winches are Lewmar 40 two speed self tailing winches. I did think the mainsheet was a bit underpowered. The two mainsheet setup (one on starboard and board where there is a currently a bridle), more purchase, or a larger winch would help.
Schitterende beelden met de drone! Prachtig hoe stabiel ze op één oor gaat. Persoonlijk ben ik niet blij met die ramen die al bij 20 graden onderwater komen. Het zal vast veilig zijn hoor!
Great, thank you 🏴☠️
At 13:55, those doors pointing aft look like they could easily snag clothing making you trip and fall down the companionway...
If I were the boat designer, I'd build out a lip from the side walls, shielding the door edges.
Not my sort of boat but a very good review reminiscent of Chris Beeson.
Well, a remote reminiscence, not bad this review, I agree but nobody will ever come close to Beeson... whatever happened to Chris?
@@peterhomann2140 Agreed. Chris brought a grumpy skipper charm to the reviews. Still, happy to see YM with new reviews.
Chris Beeson was the best. You nailed it!
looks like a great boat to sail in, just a bit sad it dosent have the double rudder, in case you go out and have a bit of a rough weather id like to have the option of the two rudders, in any case, a fantastic boat and i love the design
Excellent review of all the key aspects of this boat - performance, accommodation, options, price, etc. One minor observation: the hinged companionway doors will make it difficult to install sheet bags in the companionway, which then begs the question of where else to locate them (there are plexiglass hatches, rope clutches and winches covering the flat surface area on either side of the companionway, as well). I'm also leery of the mainsheet system and the ability to get adequate leech tension in the main, though sail shape looked pretty good in 10-15 knots. All in all, an attractive and comfortable looking boat. Probably not for me but it will make many buyers happy.
It’s a fucking nice yacht, your minor observations are petty. This yacht has been professionally designed and a lot of thought gone into it. Just as well you’re not buying it then.
@@richardwyman5975 - Tell me you know nothing about offshore sailing without telling me you know nothing about offshore sailing.
For god sake get a life🤣
Absolutely wonderful review. Made me a subscriber.
Thanks for this informative video, best one of c38 this far.
Great review...! But... had trouble staying focused on the boat...!😎
Dear Theo, hopefully not the first time you were pleasantly surprised by a German 😂 Greetings from Münster, cheers Sebastian, Great review by the way. And 153.391 Euro for that boat is a good price. A lot of boat for your money.
And, I am not, under no circumstances, envious of your full hair.😂
This is an excellent boat review, not to name any names but Toby Hodges & Yachting World should take notes. A review gives you an analytical honest opinion of findings and possible short comings that won’t be on the sales brochure.
Great video! Love the boat.
Really a nice and reasonable boat. However, for me personally a GMS with traveler would be a must-have option
i did not hear you mention the minimum draft or bridge clearance....where i live i need to know that before i would even think about buying one.
Thank you nice review , I agree on several points especially the extra set of winches near the helm station and some other points like extra hand holds, grab handles down below . . However , i totally would not like to have a front door fridge where a top loaded ice box should be, since top loaded ice boxes can also have refrigeration. The other point i would add , i seriously would miss a toe-rail on top of the gunwale even if it is just a series of segmented rails , they are all to handy to tie off to while cruising . NO space of a wind pilot mmmm ? Generally i give the design top marks , but some point should always be included from the past, call me a bit old fashioned , yet young at heart.
Just wondering about those cushions that you have on the rails to rest your back on, where can we buy those? Thank-you!
Great review. Very relevant points raised.
Sounds like a review instead of a company salesman.
Any guarantees for the keel not dropping?
Good job throughout that review
I would like to suggest an episode about "Where can I anchor my boat?". How do I know if anchoring is permitted at a location? It would be nice if you could cover France. Thank you. Your channel is great!
Thanks. We'll look into doing something on that. In general though, check the charts for where your are thinking of anchoring. If you're happy there are no hazards like rocks, you have shelter for the conditions, enough tide to stay afloat and enough chain for sufficient scope, then that's a good start. Then check the chart doesn't show any restrictions on anchoring, such as shell fish farms, submarine cables or nature reserve protections,
What a fantastic objective review. It gives you confidence in the good points. Absolutely hate cabin top main sheet systems. You should indeed must be able to sail properly in 40 knots. Rotten mechanical advantage is bad design. Yachts are for sailing. Otherwise buy a power boat. Nevertheless this is a good boat.
Bellissimo ☀️⛵
Thanks, very detailed and lots of " aehm's ". I'm sure, great Sailing.
I'll watch out for that next time!
@@YachtingMonthly you are welcome.
Like race ing a motor home!
Nice one Theo 👍
Thanks Paul, glad you enjoyed it. Hope all is well!
I got the "made in china"-feeling.
Very nice Review. I've been looking for a YM review of the Bavaria C45, as since brought to Market, and a very Critical and long just post launch in depth review by the German Yacht TV, Bavaria do seem to have addressed the complaints well and the C45's for the USA Markrt now look to me as if the C45 has now become a boat we'll worth Considering. YM doesn't appear to have ever done a C45 Review, so any chance of a Review of a Current .Production model ? tbh, that Yanmar diesels of 80hp and above now being able to have the ZF Saildrive (not the 360 degrees propulsion nonsense ibviously - what a pointless feature imho ) , has also had me starting to think seriously about getting one. There's also a Halcyon Yacht delivery video of a new C45 Delivery from Hamble to Cardiff with some lumpy Conditions rounding Land's End, which left the Crew rather impressed, which to me anyway, points to a much improved Boat. Thanks again for the far better than par for the corse Review of the C38. Best Wishes and Fair Winds. Bob. 👍
Novice sailor here. Why the dual helms? If they are redundant why not have the extra space for seating etc? is this a dumb question?
Dear Mr Reviewer, boats have lines and sheets, not ropes.
Great overall design and nice presentation. She could be improved with: main sheet winches by the helms, In mast furling to avoid need to climb, better sitting on both helms, way more fridges/freezers and backrest for nav station (I have a fairly simple solution). With that addressed, please send the bill (and the boat)!
Curious about that simple backrest solution ;-)
@@TheWallybam2 Vertically sliding from within the cushions. I've made one for a friend's boat, and he thanks me everytime. Nearly the same solution for my v-berth in order to hold the pillows.
Thanks.
I live in Rio Dulce Guatemala, have the all the Caribean to the north. Is this boat proper for cruising all the Caribean? Is there other sailboat that you would recommend?
It depends on the kind of sailing you want to do, the people you're sailing with and your budget. Sure, this boat is capable of sailing in the Caribbean, but it depends if it's what you're looking for
Nice review of a great looking boat. Thoughts on who builds a better boat ? Hnase, Beneteau or Jeanneau ?
Can you cross the atlantic with this boat?
Bad idea. Bavaria is know for poor build quality.
So the very cheap cruising boat with tight racing sails does 35 degrees apparent or true, not sure...do you need to continue?
Much more modern than I'm used to. A/C option, but heater option & insulation? MicroWave not mentioned? but seen, afaict. Propane/ gas convert to InDuction and Solar panel options, Water maker??? Nit picking but odd to me: Stowage doors fold down/flat was odd to me, not want stuff falling out but seemed backwards. Transom drops down interesting. Scuba compressor in an aft locker option/ refit. Single handing needs some work, some mentioned. 200k £= $ USD? might translate for the rest off us, VAT and delivery costs.
I'll double check on US prices, but as it would go through the local dealers, exchange rates, import costs and local taxes, it's not as simple as just converting one to the other.
In terms of microwave (the boat has a gas oven but no microwave), water maker (you could fit one, but wasn't on this boat) and you could certainly add solar panels, but again not specified by this owner. Similarly there could well be space for a scuba compressor if you wanted to add one. This boat probably isn't aimed at bluewater cruising - more coastal cruising - but you could add kit as required if that's what you want to do.
In my opinion this boat is just a floating apartment. But the review is great, albeit not critical enough. Thank you Yachting Monthly! I think this is the best review of C38 I have seen. Almost made me like Bavaria. I think he is using Chris Beeson tactic. Pointing out a few points while angling in the viewer to the brand/model.
Indeed!
Good to have someone different to Toby
Different channel, but Toby does an amazing job on Yachting World!
not having solo access to winches while helming is enough to stop...
Yes, that was something we found. With a crew, it's fine and it helps get your crew involved in the sailing. You could mount a winch further aft to give you better control
Scatter cushions £1500 each
Beautiful boat, would almost pull the trigger, but I think that main sheet setup is a deal breaker.
If you rigged it with two mainsheets (one to either side of the bridle), which is an option, or added more purchase, it could easily be significantly improved.
The self furling is powered by human effort or electro mechanical (motor) by way of
A foil attached To the forestay, the bottom of which has a small spool or drum which
Accepts an endless furling lines run back to the cockpit or helm if you prefer.
The sail being attached to the foil can then be rolled up as shown in the demo
Video while the boat was tied up iq the slip.
It was a slip of the tongue. I meant to say 'self-tacking' jib, not self furling. The furling is a conventional headsail furling drum and foil.
500 grand american... hmmm, I know it's completely different field, but more than seawind 1160...
How th e heck does 117,000 pounds get to 280,000 pounds...????? wtf That seems IMPOSSIBLE.! How much do a few options cost for goodness sakes. I wish I could see the breakdown of that lot. Talk about taken to the cleaners...!!!
If you pick up a copy of our June issue of Yachting Monthly magazine, there's a full review with spec, tech drawings etc: www.magazinesdirect.com/az-single-issues/6937314/yachting-monthly-single-issue.thtml
Look at it like this. The base F150 is under $30k. But many sold in are the $70-$80k range. The options can easily add up to the base price, and more.
Just buy the base model and shop the rest yourself 😞
@@audi3318 or buy 2 base models add some stereo and microwaves. 🤣
The base price is somewhat of a bait price
Good video, don't like the boat though.
Don't get it why Bavaria company is in such a miserable state: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bavaria_Yachtbau
Dipping that rear window can’t be good long term
I guess you don't buy a Bavaria or Benetteau when you think long term...
...so around $390,000 us
This is the sailer that makes me want to trade in my powerboat
I hear, Yanmar technical service in Croatia is pretty rude and bad.
Looks like a good place to get lost in a book or some sounds.
Head-up enough to luff the main before attempting to close haul the mainsheet, and you won't need a winch or purchase no matter how big the boat is. Sailing is about strategy and finesse, not leverage and brute force. The goal is to bring your ship in harmony with the elements, not to fight them. Remember - The rudder is a brake.
I think the difficulty that he talked about was mainly gybing under power and getting the main to centerline with underpowered winches and poor leverage due to the forward nature of the main rigging.
At that price, I would buy an Azuree with much superior quality...
what shoes u got on you here?
Wearing Zhik Fuze deck trainers
I was a bit surprised at the price as in my opinion the boat looked a bit cheap and nasty. It might be okay for a few days charter, but I can't imagine a serious sailor wanting it.
Quite obviously, not refind.
Bavarias are generally solid yachts that do most things well for a good price and this seems no different. In a way they're like Skoda - ridiculed initially in the UK for being cheap and nasty before people using them realised cheaper didn't always mean worse! Their prices have stayed competitive. The equivalent Bavaria 38 in 2003 was £79,500 (Inc.VAT) - I know as I own one. After inflation since 2003 that's equivalent to around £127,000 in 2021 - only a little below the base price for the C38. There's more competition at this price level from Beneteau and other big manufacturers than there was 20yrs ago - in part because they've adopted some of the methods Bavaria used (e.g. preassembled cabinetry) to minimise production time and costs. If your heart is set on a new yacht built in the traditional way expect to pay at least double what these cost (e.g. Halberg-Rassey, Rustler).
Bavarias are know for falling apart quickly
"Bavarias are generally solid yachts"? Really? In which world????
Not sure that this boat is suitable for derious off-shore cruising. Looks a little bit tender to me.
Thank you for the great review. But all due respect, I would rather go for an Azuree 41 for a much better build quality and sailing performance.
Absolutely you are right!
I would say the windless handset is in the worst place for constantly being we , yup water resistant , heard it all before,
What's a Self Furling Jib mentioned at 4:00?
Slip of the tongue. I meant to say a self-tacking jib, which would have a smaller area, and less control over sheeting angles, therefore ideally paired with a furling off-wind sail for more area downwind
@@YachtingMonthly Thank you for clearing that up. I thought it's another new fang equipment that I have go hunt for :D
Floating summer house ... with a mast.
But if that's what you want, - the boat is exellent .....
Not my cup of tea 😉😎
Wondering why. It looks to me to be a capable cruiser that could still be fun to sail, even if not designed for racing.
T Oadaly; have just been watching this brand of boats - on the water, when out sailing for years.
Especially when tacking, it looks bad..... at least 10 degrees lower with less speed. Cannot be that fun - imo.
With tailwind, maybe a little better - but any haystack can float with the wind 😉😖
@@jrgensenbo2999 Good info, thanks!
T Oadaly; in fairness - I want to ad, that the sails have a lot to say....
Many Bavarias are sold with a roll-mainsail and a not very sofisticated foresail. Especially the very flat roll-mainsail with no curve in the rear (I don't know the english word - "agterlig" in Danish) doesn't do any good for the performance of any boat.
This boat, obviously has better sails - but I still have to see a tour-Bavaria with good tacking performance. Kind regards
@@jrgensenbo2999 The out-haul can not be adjusted on those sails?
So not single handed.
What interests me is how to register a sailboat without an address.
I mean, if you've been at sea for a year and you've got an address, you still have to pay for the apartment and then there are taxes and other things.
Again, you no longer have an address (at the municipality of residence and you are deregistered from the state) can you not register a vehicle?
Greeting
What was the crew doing raising the main more , the genoa or sheeting in, why not just do a quick luff and not put so much strain on the gear , its not rocket science
Bavarias are know to fall apart, and yes, loose their keels occasionally and they are still expensive. Wouldn’t be my first choice.
I think the Amel's are the best design because if you are on the high seas and a serious storm comes up then you are more protected as the steering wheel is closer to mid ship and is well protected from waves. See this video... th-cam.com/video/nWhmLkOYDZM/w-d-xo.html
Surprised there is no I’m mast furling seeings how the sail bag is almost impossible to reach.
Great review! Please fire the sound guy (joking). MASSIVE MUSIC, then voice is muffled and is impossible to hear.
Noted, thanks.
It’s scary for the boat to tilt sideways almost capsized while on main sail. Monohaul not my taste.
music oppressively loud compared to verbal audio - otherwise great
Look up the comfort and capsize numbers. I’m not into dependence on form stability, which works against you in storm situations.
I don't like the new yacht design. The best time was the IMS designs, double ender and long keel.
As an old experienced sailor, this boat does not interest me for to many reasons to mention. Nice dock condo/day sailor.
I thumbed this up just for the scatter cushions.
Haha - we liked them too!
I DESPISE rear set helms.
I'd much prefer a forward single wheel and twin rudders
Nice boat but inside it's seems designed by Ikea!
But you do get a lot of boat for your money...
Catalina 385?
Infinitely better quality and sailing
@@LetterSignedBy51SpiesWasA-Coup yes sir agreed :)
poorly protected steering Mech. BIG mistake !!