In my personal opinion I think Taylor deserves top of S rank. Maybe I'm a little biased because she's one of my favorite characters of all time, probably even topping that list, but I think the way she developed, the justifications she made making her an unreliable narrator, and watching her become the villain of her own story in some ways and someone who the Taylor from the beginning of the book would hate was so interesting. As for the ending, I agree that I think her death was absolutely perfect, and that she didn't need to come back. It's part of the reason I question if that epilogue was even real, or just a dream of a dying mind or something like that, and I kind of like that's left up to interpretation a bit. It felt very fitting in a lot of ways, for her to die like that. The consequences of her actions finally catching up to her. The epilogue feels like a cop out in some ways, and that's why I think I prefer to think it isn't real. My reasoning for think it might not even be real is because of a few inconsistencies. First of all and most obvious, I'm pretty sure her Dad was dead, unless she saught out an alternative version of him when she got to the new earth. Second, and most damning in my opinion, is that she supposedly sees Alec. Alec was the product of Heartbreaker and one of his "wives", so if this earth, supposedly Aelph, had weaker Parahumans and Heartbreaker was never given a power, then how was Alec conceived? Him and his siblings couldn't have been, unless he somehow survived Behemoth or Heartbreaker got the exact same power, the exact same "wife", and conditions were somehow optimal enough that Alec and his siblings were born. This whole thing makes me question in some ways whether or not this whole world is kind of a subconious manifestation of everyone Taylor has lost; one last comfort before she dies. Not heaven, but rather a figment of her imagination to make dying a bit more comfortable. It almost feels like, "Look, here's everyone you lost! You can all be together again! :)" And the reason Brian doesn't show up here is that she doesn't know he's dead. Regarding her saying to Contessa that she regrets what happened and would do things differently, I honestly don't think I belive her. We've been shown that she's an unreliable narrator before who doesn't always follow through on her own thoughts and words. Maybe it was more just how she wished things could have gone, and idealization of her actions if she redid them. In some respects, I question whether or not she'd even be capable of doing these things with the actions she's committed thus far and her mindset even in death. When you mentioned Walter White, and how in the end he came to terms with the fact that what he was doing wasn't nesscecary but he kept doing it because he liked it and was good at it, in some respects I wonder if Taylor is similar. From the very beginning of the story, we're told that she has average looks, average grades, and no real specialties or goals in life. We're even shown that some of these things aren't nessecarely the insecurities of a teenage girl, but things that are actually true, bad at self reflection as Taylor is. When she goes out as a parahuman, however, during her warlord days and her time with the wards, we see that there is something Taylor is in fact good at. Very good at, actually, continually taking down foes way above her weight class. Some of it was luck, but a good portion was also her talent for it and her ability to plan on the fly and adapt to nearly any situation. We see just how good at these things she is during the confrontation at the school, where even when she'd horribly outnumbered, unprepared, and not at all ready for what's just hit her, the heroes fear just what she might do, since she's shown that she always has an ace up her sleeve and is very capable. Those fears are justified, since she even makes it out of that in the end, and the only reason they caught her is because she literally turned herself in. She's very good at what she does and she'd a very capable warlord, merciful and brutal in equal respects. So, in some senses, I wonder if going back to a boring old life where there wasn't much she was good at or passionate about is actually what she wants. I actually wonder if she even could go back. She's good at what she does, and I wonder if even subconouisly she likes it. That's all I have to say really, and this is a very well done video. Though I will say, you did Labyrinth dirty with that D ranking.
Yeah im not sure Taylor is alive either, dead or in coma is my personal take on her status in the end. Lean towards coma, because of the Undersiders talking about her in the epilogue. If she was alive in earth Aleph Tattletale would have no way to monitor the situation, and if she was dead there’s no reason too monitor her. I think the epilogue was a coma dream.
I interpreted the epilogue as Taylor being "saved" by the QA shard and living a happy 'afterlife' in an idealized reality, similar to a Coil simulation. Not really dead but not really alive either. Her apotheosis with QA making a strong enough connection that her mind is offloaded into QA, who doesn't want to lose best girl but also best girl can't ever go back to the real world after being god.
I just re-read worm and noticed one thing. In epilogue on earth aleph Taylor constantly feels incomprehensible anxiety and surrealism, maybe even abnormality of what surrounded her. It's easily explained by powerful PTSD she has after all, but... The feeling is kinda similar for what she had in agnosia epidemic, when she was accompanied by Jack and Bonesaw, but far weaker. So this is also thought provoking, that epilogue is all unreal. My personal thought that is all going in her mind, maybe even in her shard, in shardspace or where else, and her real body is in coma somewhere in the deepest deeps at the most secret base of Tattletale. And Lisa both wants and afraid of Taylor's resurrection.
We actually genuinely forgot we did her after the fact, we thought she somehow wasn't on the tier list at all. So her power worked in a pretty literal sense if that makes you feel any better
Funny enough, Aegis nearly became the new protag after Leviathan. Wildbow used a random number generator to determine who would live or die during that battle, with Taylor debuffed and Aegis buffed. Taylor had a critical success while Aegis had a critical fail when those dice were rolled. Even in meta, Taylor beats the f**king odds!
@@nazzarynnavarronunez9471 Not certain about the full plan, only that Aegis was slated for the new protag, likely Gallant would've had a bigger role in the Victoria/Amy nightmare had he survived. I do know that the scene Wildbow wrote with Taylor dying had Rachel and her dogs arriving too late to save her and Gladly emerging from the bunker and recognizing Taylor. I haven't delved too deep into all this, so I can't say how that would've impacted things. In any case, I think we can see why Wildbow abandoned the random number generator
I think my favorite part of the story is still when Lisa gives her the “You never learned to ask for help..." speech. Mostly because you can tell how hurt Tattletale is by losing the friend she so badly wanted to save, and also that she was right. Taylor didn't ask for help much, but she did made demands. Second best line is of course "Finally, everyone was working together." As far as Eidolon goes, word of god is that he did subconsciously create the Endbringers. He doesn't have direct control over what his power does or what it gives him, it only ever gives him what ne needs. He needed worthy opponents.
He didn't create them so much as he tapped into something that Eden had pre-prepared and woke them. His subconscious desire is why they acted the way they did.
I love the paths Defiant and Dragon take, they are on the same line but start at the opposite ends. Defiant is a human becoming a bit of a machine while Dragon is a machine becoming a bit of a human. And they meet at the middle in the sweetest way.
I absolutely loved Taylor's last ending scene of her 'alive' because her entire life has been about escalation, about necessity of control and how she deals with chaos ironically millions of times better than anyone else, and now she's been FORCED to let go. It's her personal version of hell, but at the same time it's one that can lead her into genuinely HEALING from all the damage she's taken to her mental state from the very start. "W-we're all so very small in the end." And after shattering God himself, Taylor is out of the picture because that's all she is. Not a Noble Shard user, not even a Cape, she's just a normal person. And that's all she will ever be now
@@RoundaboutCast Thank you for saying so! I'm glad you found my thoughts on her interesting. Taylor is very different as a protagonist but because of that I think it's so interesting to analyze her. Loved your video! Especially with how you put Eidolon in A tier, since he's one of my favorite characters in the series
@@RoundaboutCast Definitely. He was only in that one chapter, but he’s one of the characters I keep coming back to whenever I think of Worm. Just a genuinely good guy who’s been beat down by life again and again, who has done a great thing by getting Scion on the side of good, yet finds that outweighed by the fact that just because he chose to word his request in a specific way, millions have died. Plus his conversation with Lisette is so well written, especially that last line. “Good deal, isn’t it? Ten pounds to become the most powerful person in the world.” I don’t know why, but that’s just stuck with me for some reason. Him believing in her so much just because of one simple act of kindness. But clearly, whoever made the tier list thought that Strapping Lad and Rosary deserved their spots on it more than him, so who are we to judge, lol. By the way, if you don’t mind me asking, have you guys considered giving Ward a similar treatment to Worm? I know that it’s never reached the same popularity, but I’d love to hear your take on it. I really think that Wildbow absolutely nailed the characters in a way that Worm never quite reached, although it wasn’t always quite as good in other areas. Anyway, thanks for the quality content, as well as the response. I’ve watched through all of your episodes on Worm before, yet I still find myself putting them on during long shifts at work when I’m in the mood for Parahumans, along with the audiobook and We’ve Got Worm / Ward. Good stuff. :)
@@Kriosaivak Thanks for the good discussion, we love to see some of our videos that have been out for a while still get such great comments. As far as Ward, I don't think we have plans on starting it any time soon, and we've given a few reasons why here and there. As for me (Willer), I'm not particularly enthusiastic about starting another huge story with a lot of the same cast as side characters. The setting has also expanded in scope so much from the original Brockton Bay + occasional other city that it's hard for me to comprehend. For Bradley, he read the first few arcs in the past and was mixed on it. Tyler doesn't seem particularly interested and wikipedia'd some stuff that didn't inspire confidence, BUT he's still pretty down to do it eventually. We've heard some mixed opinions on Ward, everything from it's not as engaging to it being Wildbow's best work, etc. If anything we are more likely to give Twig a shot in the future.
@@RoundaboutCast Ah, darn. Well, I certainly hope that you’ll change your mind someday, I’m certainly in the “Wildbow’s Best Work” category, but I completely understand why some people don’t like it. It definitely feels very different than Worm. Regardless though, thanks a bunch for the response to the comment, I really appreciate it. Guess I ought to give Twig a shot, see if I’d be interested in following along if you start it! :)
It never fails to make me smile that a cape nameed Canary was sent to the Birdcage. Granted, she got shafted when it happened, but damn the irony is so thinck, you can spread it with a butter knife.
Late thing but Velocity had a great moment in the Leviathan fight where he ran from the water to land and Trickter swapped him with someone in the water over and over to save people.
Regarding Eidolon's relationship with the Endbringers, we see alternate versions of them in Eden's flash sideways interlude, so we know these superweapons exist without him, so I think the prevailing theory is that Eidolon's shard activated them rather than created them.
I know that the endbringers were part of the cycle but I thought story-wise that Eidolon's desires caused them to manifest far stronger than what is normally necessary.
@@historicalwalrus589 They were part of Edens side of the plan, essentially being almighty drivers of conflict, interacting with and antagonising civilizations to create more DATA. When Eden *brainfart.SFX* they remained dormant. But then Eidelon drank some no-no juice and gained control of one of Eden's "royal shards", from there he accidentally awoke the end-bringers and made them start fucking shit up.
Note: This is NOT a power scaling tier list!! A tier list of every worm character! Except Garrot/Sveta who doesn't appear to be in the list but is definitely A tier. Taylor's Lawyer in Arc 20 is also A tier. PS: Bonus Minigame - try to find the portion of the video where we accidentally open up a Slack chat and comment below with the time stamp (so that I may remove it). We're pretty sure it happened during this recording, but couldn't find the moment after multiple look throughs? So either we've all gone insane or it's that hard to miss.
The point about Taylor saying she won't do anything near as important again after GM, I disagree with her Aleph-Mom. I mean, she can have kids or something and do things that are important to her, but in the grand scheme of things, she saved all of the worlds and sacrificed everything for it, that is who she is. A quiet life going to university or something, is that really Taylor? She actually did peak there imo
this is the problem i have with so much YA! like you will always be defined by something you did as a child and nothing you can do will top that. she did peak fs
@@maddiepaddy2608 well good thing she lost her power as wards ends I woould get terrified if Taylor become a titan 😭.anyway I couldn't understand one thing can you help me how in the hell does glastig uaine get over khepri control I didn't understand that
@@nuckfiggas8008 When doormaker's battery begins to break Queen Administrator manages Khepri's army. She dumps them all out in New York and makes a smaller, more efficient army that she can operate within her 15 foot radius. Scrub and Labyrinth manage to make the cut of the smaller army because together they can simulate the Doormaker. It's never fully explained, you just read Glaistig doing something out of Khepri's control all of a sudden in 30.7.
"You needed worthy opponents." That twist stuck with me till today and I haven't reached Eidolon yet in the video, but that makes him a SSS+ character for me.
A few notes: Satyrical can make clones of himself that look like other people Bambina bounces around and gets more energy the more she bounces, exploding on each bounce, she basically throws herself at the floor to start up, and she tries to become a famous villain for corporate sponsorship but was jealous of Skitter for moving her down in the villain rankings, also appeared in the background at the Leviathan fight I’m p sure Chubster dies because his power means the less he moves the less he can be moved, so Taylor couldn’t do chest compressions Revel’s lantern can store and fire energy, and it’s made by a Tinker, so in mechanics it’s less similar to Behemoth than Taylor’s power is to the Simurgh’s I remember somebody said there was a WoG post saying Eidolon actually did activate the Endbringers Oni Lee’s power is literally making him brain-dead Glaistig Uaine has the only Shard that can understand literally anything not related to conflict WoG says Marquis is pronounced Marquiss, so I just pronounce it Mark Was so it’s wrong in every interpretation More WoG says Shadow Stalker basically turned into her Shard at her Trigger
@@nuckfiggas8008 Apparently, Glaistig just redirected control to one of her ghosts somehow, possibly related to how she knew Eidolon was going to drain her Shard when he unlocked that power but maybe not
@@mineralfinder6822 hey have you checked out worm animation clips there was a channel which was making clips with amazing graphics .You should check it out. search Welcome to Brockton bay. 😎.
Brain Dead is the wrong word for it, he isn't technically brain damaged in anyway, he's closer to ego death than brain dead. Everything we hear about it equates more to amnesia and ego death.
I'm watching it in parts as a bit of a Worm refresher because I want to get back into Wildbow. While watching a worm meme video there was an Oliver meme, went back to this video and it started exactly where you guys started to talk about Oliver.
I've been having a bit of a brain rut lately towards reading and that's severely hampered my ability to keep up with Pale, but you guys discussing Worm and it's characters really reminded me of my time with the serial and how much enjoyment I got from reading Wildbow's stuff. y'all really made my day with this.
As someone who reads a lot, and I mean A LOT of Worm fanfiction, it is really interesting to see the characters that you hardly remember, that the fanon has made me really aware of, for example Cranial, as a part of Toybox, shows up in a ton of fanfictions, but you have never heard of them. Also Animos, when an OP Taylor in a fanfic goes to fix everything, one easy target is often taking out The Teeth, so that guy shows up as well sometimes. They're not really characters there either, but at least they actually show up and aren't just mentioned once or twice. Really nice to see some Worm content back on the menu boys Edit: Faultline is cool! At least in fanfiction.... Edit: I think all characters from Brockton Bay are well known to fanfic readers, because every fanfic at least starts, if not entirely takes place there
This is really interesting! I don't think even Bradley keeps up with Worm fanfics so it's funny how some of these nobodies come to life to in the world of fanfics. Thanks for sharing, Shacuras!
I found y’all through your Worm content but have just caught up to One Piece and have been going through Wano with y’all and I absolutely love your thoughts on OP in general! You guys are great c:
That is so nice to hear! That's literally the best we could ever hope for with our channel, we'd love to share things we love with others who might like things we love. Experiencing and becoming attached to a new piece of media is one of the best things to share with others in life.
These guys... have some really, really weird takes, and yet most of their conclusions I ended up agreeing with, while finding the reasons they gave borderline nonsense. What a strange world we live in.
We know people can't always agree on these things, but part of the reason our tier list videos are so long is because we try to at least make our stance clear and decently understandable, even if people disagree. Bradley is pretty up to date with fan impressions on Worm related characters, but Tyler and Willer are not as much. What are some of the weirder picks in the tier list for you?
@@RoundaboutCast It's less that there are weird picks for me, rather that most of the picks are on point, but I would not have put them where they are for the same reasons you guys did. That said, I don't exactly agree with a lot of the fan impressions of characters either. XD I think seeing so many of the characters from Taylor's very flawed perspective, including Taylor herself, can color the reaction to them that people have pretty strongly.
So, just a thing: Iron Rain isn't a "him." Iron Rain was Kaiser's older sister, who got killed before the start of the story. I don't know why I remember that, but I do.
There's not much WoG of her, all we knew about her is that, she is elder sis of Kaiser, but not heir of empire sure. But still OP because her name is literally.
@@Just_A_Dude the old Empire is kinda more norse (more patriarchy?) than nazism, that's why IronRain is not heir i think, but because of lack of WoG she has many Fanon, like she is the actual heir but assassinated by kaiser with Gezzelshaft help or that she is Rival/Lover of Marquis.
Ok, so Rachel has a partial animal mind (like Tobias), she takes care of animals, Cassidy exists, she morphs animals... she’s straight up just Animorphs. It’s awesome!
God I can't say why I watched this all the way through, but it was really enjoyable. Fun to watch and listen to people's thoughts and see others as obsessed with this shit. Seeing a lot of people end up exactly where I wanted them to. String Theory S tier all day. Also this made me laugh. "I didn't really care about Teacher in Worm, I hear he's important in Ward but he was awful in Worm" Don't worry he's a big part of Ward and you still won't give a shit about him lmaoooo, awful ass character
@@CaMallmann Ugh we'd love to! Running out of Pact audio book has kinda put us in a tough spot, but we can't wait forever before having to bust out some reading. But once we do finish it sometime in the future, we would love to do one!
@@RoundaboutCast Oh, right, I forgot it doesn't have a complete audiobook yet. It just has some of my favorite worldbuilding. And your reflections on the video made me really curious about your opinions on Pact. Anyhow, loved the video, you guys noticed and figured out many things I've missed in my reading years ago, and watching this reanimated my hype on Wildbow's works. Its impressive how much afterlife Worm can have. Also, on 19:15 you guys make the point that if Dragon hadn't been disabled by Saint, maybe Jack would've been stopped. But exactly when that happens, Dinah says that the doomsday odds were reduced. My personal theory is that when Saint killed her, it diminished the chances that she could stop Khepri. And considering Dragon has a shard, she would never be able to stop Jack directly, I think. Just wanted to join the conversation a bit :p
The decisive blow to Jack came from an unpowered PRT guy, which it kind of had to given that Jack's power is essentially to never lose against parahumans
Wasn't it Golem who realised "Hey, I think Jack can't lose against capes, here's my idea for taking him down" and then his strategy worked. He didn't get the final blow, but it was his plan that stopped Jack, in the end, getting him foamed and, in a way, convincing Grey Boy to bubble him.
@@andrewsauer9669 yeah. I just meant to say that a lot of characters' powers were literal interpretations of common book tropes/tools. Skitter's was omniscient overview of battles for narration purposes. Tattletale's was character backstory-exposition. Imp's was kinda reversed-she had character development entirely off-screen, because of her power. And Jack's was plot armor.
I believe Screener was one of the Teacher provided capes to Cauldron during Gold Morning that allowed Doctor Mother to use The Clairvoyant without as bad of side effects
Absolutely wonderful work, there is far to few material talking about worm... Okay well, can there ever really be enough? Obligatory: Panacea in A tier! Absolutely disgraceful, disgusting even! She is at least S. Above S even, perhaps even Rei-tier.
Also they really went on record saying no one knows if Taylor is alive but in the last chapter of worm there's this excerpt " Rachel nodded, satisfied. “And Taylor?” Imp asked. “I’ll keep looking after things in that department,” Tattletale said. “If that’s cool?” “That’s cool,” Imp said. They made their way down the last two flights of stairs." Are we not to assume tattletale knows Taylor is alive?"
Yay! People who love slash as much as I do! In my opinion he is the villain of worm. Not just because he sets off the end of the world but because narratively he is the antithesis of taylor. A lot of worm is taylor thinking "if I had the power I would be more responsible with it, I know how to use it best" or something along those lines. And thats what Jack is, a destructive child who was given a blank check to fuck the world and suffer no consequences. And he was handed this power by the ultimate authority in the setting. He is the definition of undeserving of the power (to influence people, not literal super power) that he has.
His flashback/interlude where it shows him taking out King and basically shrugging and saying "fuck it" too become the worst monster in history is my favorite chapter of worm.
@@sicksock435446I think one of the things that makes Jack such an excellent villain is that he’s almost… past his prime? Like, he did what he said he would do. He made a name for himself, became a threat on par with fucking ENDBRINGERS, hell he even had a dude who killed one of the triumvirate on his team. He did all the main storyline, all the side quests, and now he’s just fucking around and getting his kicks in. He’s jobbing HARD because he wants to have fun. And then he finds out about him ending the world, and he gets excited, because that means he finally has something new and entertaining to do. Yeah, he’s in my top 5 characters lmao.
3 year old video ik, but I have a completely different understanding of Oliver's power. You guys described it as the shard that made the avatars and he slightly shapeshifts into his understanding of what he looks like, but I am of the opinion that he got a full dose of exclusively the Control component of the Cauldron vial he shared with Noelle. Whereas Noelle got the raw power contained in the vial, he got the part that has the encoded value of whatever power the entities used to frame shards around human limitations. Because of that, he's progressively shifting into the Most Average Human. Every time he's described, it reads like a description of an uncanny-valley render of a person.
Really enjoyed the video, boys. There would have been some strong words with y'all if Imp and Bitch didn't get into S tier. You should make more Worm content!
3:02:50 no, it wasn’t really like that. Hookwolf attempted to leverage the crisis to advance his own agenda. He basically wanted the Undersiders and the Travelers to give up their territory. And he didn’t agree to a compromise
I hope you get around to Ward at some point. I’m a good ways into it, and I’m loving it. Also, loved going through all of these podcasts after finishing Worm. Some great content. :)
I think what I like about Pretender is that he's such a downer character. He's arguably the single strongest cape and his most defining trait is that he still isn't good enough for the one thing he strives for.
"...29 because there's a good arc in there somewhere" SAVAGE I see you guys like the villain protagonist trope. Have you watched Dexter? The first 4 seasons are fire, then it goes downhill from there and it has one of the worst endings in tv history, only behind GoT. But I still think it's worth watching just for the first half alone.
Dexter is a show I don't think any of us have watched, hearing about that ending can be pretty off putting. There is a lot of good anti-hero style stories out there right now, so we're not necessarily starving for them!
@@RoundaboutCast The MC is a serial killer who only kills serial killers. It's the closest thing to Death Note minus the god complex. I see it as a combination of Death Note, Breaking Bad and it has some overlapping themes with Worm (the dark passenger). The ending is bad but it doesn't retroactively ruin the good parts. Every season is its own thing, with its own main villain. You can drop it after the first (imo the best) season and still get something out of the series since the seasons are self-contained. You will know if the series is for you after the first episode, so I'd say it's worth a shot when you are in the mood for another anti-hero story. It's still one of the best of its kind, despite the ending.
Only just found Worm this year and have been consuming every bit of content i can find and i still didn’t remember half these characters. Can’t believe one of my favorite was in Who thouh. Vex is a Teeth cape who could make razor sharp fields of forcefields that would shred people. She was such a cool power set but did not get nearly enough time in the spotlight for my liking. Same for the rest of the Teeth.
I'm really shocked you guys didn't find the Battery interlude interesting I remember it being one of my favourites. It was funny and really made me care abt two characters that didn't really stand out to me.
I remember Moord Nag because she asks for one-hundred-thousand cape bodies for her shadow to eat and Taylor goes "No that's monstrous!" and Dr. Mother immediately turns around and goes "I can get you 100k regular bodies by tomorrow but 100k cape bodies will take 27 years." And there is no elaboration.
@@RoundaboutCast Yessss I did! I was frustrated with pictures tier for Worm because everyone has a different mental picture and the arts were badly cropped, so I decided to use names, then everyone could have fun :3
Hero is cool because he had Eden's Stilling Shard, the power Scion thinks is so useful he keeps it to himself as a last resort the same as Path to Victory (we see Scion use it to stop tidal waves without collateral damage and kill people instantly). If Hero had survived, he could have been great.
His shard was way better, it was something like "wavelength manipulation", which tapped into a bunch of the processes shards use regularly, including dimensional travel, energy manipulation and 'stilling'.
Tattle tale and cherish should be S, my favorite thing in fiction is characters revealing secrets or backstory, just showing another side to themselves. Tattle tale and cherish are fucking annoying, but I love them becuase they create that reveal scenario time and time again
I think the end ringers were always there, like enforcers or instruments to drum up conflict in civilizations. I think eidolons “High priest” shard basically just activated them and transmitted his subconscious desires. Another thing I think a lot of people don’t take into consideration is that the shards aren’t *superpowers* The shards were meant only for the entities and are basically like cells of their bodies, which is why some abilities seem really weird of extra
I dont think Ove ever had a more viscerally negative reaction about a book or movie opinion as I did when I heard "Taylor was a C tier character..." like holy shit
I love how pretender becomes Alexandria She's brain dead because her brain her weakness but her body still fine so just use a master to puppet her corpse
*short conversation trying to remember who a specific character is* *Brief pause* "This is a shit show already." Sounds like every conversation I have about stuff I read/watch/play
Imagine the creator of the tierlist put every cape that was mentioned in the leviathan arc. Like i bet my kidney no one knows who woebegone is for example
Parahumans vs Wuxia: hope to find more Chinese fans here. Worm really reminded me of Chinese wuxia rather than most superhero stories. See if you agree and add more. Taylor - 萧峰 + 杨过 Tattletale - 黄蓉 Regent - 欧阳克 Coil - 左冷禅, but with the snake motif of 欧阳锋 Kaiser - 岳不群 Sophia - 丁敏君 Marquis - 黄药师 Armsmaster - 杨过 also Dragon - 小龙女 obviously Victoria - 令狐冲 + 周翡 Amy - 梅超风 Trickster - 游坦之 Teacher - 洪安通 Bonesaw - 周伯通 Protectorate - 全真教
The crazy take is that he triggered due to an alternate version of himself using a similar power. His power works by scanning the multiverse for alternate versions of the same person with no injuries and then overlapping them. People describe random uncomfortable sensations while its working, like getting glimpses of a rolodex. Before Scapegoat triggered: "He thought his powers meant he finally had relief from a life of what seemed like an endless march of failing health, new illnesses, syndromes, and mystery diagnoses. The poor bastard.". Seems similar to the effect his power has on people when he is curing them. Essentially the theory is that some other Sscapegoat had a healing power which dumped symptoms into alternate realities. Our Scapegoat got an inverted version of those powers, possibly as a bud from the same shard.
I know this is like 3 years old, but Eden should have been S when you realize she completes the parallel between Taylor, Danny, Annette and Zion, Eden, Queen Administrator. Dead Mom Depressed Dad Rebellious Daughter
Yeah, but... I think, we need SS, SSS, and SSS+ tier for... SCION, for example. Because Armsmaster and SCION in one tier looks like a joke. And, ofc, as Tattletale fun, I am outraged by her absence in S tier.
1:55:00 legend can do more interesting stuff as well, like having a breajer state to go super fast in which he loses track of time or his train of thought, so it seems like he just transported inmediatly up in the place he pictured in his head before accelarting, also the fact that he can't seem to slow down
@@nuckfiggas8008 I think that happens in ward? I havent read all of it yet. Also skitter only did one side quest with regent and imp so it felt like they weren't even friends
I can't believe you put my two favourite characters (Ash Beast and String Theory) in D tier, but you put fucking Saint in B tier. Saint is a boring character with a boring, clichéd motivation. The only interesting thing about him is that he actually uses Ascalon on Dragon. Other than that he's a boring 'terrified of AI' character. How could you put him above someone who, in another universe, destroyed the fucking moon! Her power is incredibly interesting, making WMDs as long as it's on a specific schedule. And Ash Beast? Someone who went toe to toe with Scion for a decent amount of time, a walking natural disaster? That's so fucking cool! I'd love to read a story focusing on Ash Beast, or on String Theory, way more than I want to read one about Skidmark, Saint, Lab Rat, or fucking *Gavel*
@@RoundaboutCast I know this is like 8 months on but i wanted to give my opinion. I think panacea deserves to be near the top of s tier. She is not a nice or even likeable character but she embodies the themes of worm so well. Brought up in a shitty situation, given powers that seem initially like they might make her life better but actually just make it worse in the end. Tries to be a good person but ends up doing really shitty thing and that’s how she’s remembered. She definitely wasn’t likeable but her plot made the world feel alive to me. Also think Danny deserved to be higher. He’s one of the most realistic characters to me. People love to say how they would act in a situation and be strong but the fact is a lot of the time people just don’t know how to handle really tough situations. He’s struggling for most of the story but then when Taylor turns herself in he’s able to stand with her. He was a frustrating character but I think he’s one of the best written and deserves to be higher. Lastly I think purity should be higher. I think it’s really rare that there’s a nazi character that has more to them than just being racist. As a black dude it did make me a bit uncomfortable reading her interlude but it was so interesting. She wanted to be a good person and mum but she couldn’t shake the beliefs that she had. She’s obviously still psycho even without the racism considering how she acts when aster is taken but I did find her to be an interesting character.
I kinda dislike hookwolf cause he restricts his own power for the sake of aesthetics it's not even like panacea who doesn't do cool power shit cause of character reasons hookwolf just does it cause of AeStHeTiCs
In my personal opinion I think Taylor deserves top of S rank. Maybe I'm a little biased because she's one of my favorite characters of all time, probably even topping that list, but I think the way she developed, the justifications she made making her an unreliable narrator, and watching her become the villain of her own story in some ways and someone who the Taylor from the beginning of the book would hate was so interesting.
As for the ending, I agree that I think her death was absolutely perfect, and that she didn't need to come back. It's part of the reason I question if that epilogue was even real, or just a dream of a dying mind or something like that, and I kind of like that's left up to interpretation a bit. It felt very fitting in a lot of ways, for her to die like that. The consequences of her actions finally catching up to her. The epilogue feels like a cop out in some ways, and that's why I think I prefer to think it isn't real. My reasoning for think it might not even be real is because of a few inconsistencies. First of all and most obvious, I'm pretty sure her Dad was dead, unless she saught out an alternative version of him when she got to the new earth. Second, and most damning in my opinion, is that she supposedly sees Alec. Alec was the product of Heartbreaker and one of his "wives", so if this earth, supposedly Aelph, had weaker Parahumans and Heartbreaker was never given a power, then how was Alec conceived? Him and his siblings couldn't have been, unless he somehow survived Behemoth or Heartbreaker got the exact same power, the exact same "wife", and conditions were somehow optimal enough that Alec and his siblings were born.
This whole thing makes me question in some ways whether or not this whole world is kind of a subconious manifestation of everyone Taylor has lost; one last comfort before she dies. Not heaven, but rather a figment of her imagination to make dying a bit more comfortable. It almost feels like, "Look, here's everyone you lost! You can all be together again! :)" And the reason Brian doesn't show up here is that she doesn't know he's dead.
Regarding her saying to Contessa that she regrets what happened and would do things differently, I honestly don't think I belive her. We've been shown that she's an unreliable narrator before who doesn't always follow through on her own thoughts and words. Maybe it was more just how she wished things could have gone, and idealization of her actions if she redid them. In some respects, I question whether or not she'd even be capable of doing these things with the actions she's committed thus far and her mindset even in death. When you mentioned Walter White, and how in the end he came to terms with the fact that what he was doing wasn't nesscecary but he kept doing it because he liked it and was good at it, in some respects I wonder if Taylor is similar. From the very beginning of the story, we're told that she has average looks, average grades, and no real specialties or goals in life. We're even shown that some of these things aren't nessecarely the insecurities of a teenage girl, but things that are actually true, bad at self reflection as Taylor is. When she goes out as a parahuman, however, during her warlord days and her time with the wards, we see that there is something Taylor is in fact good at. Very good at, actually, continually taking down foes way above her weight class. Some of it was luck, but a good portion was also her talent for it and her ability to plan on the fly and adapt to nearly any situation. We see just how good at these things she is during the confrontation at the school, where even when she'd horribly outnumbered, unprepared, and not at all ready for what's just hit her, the heroes fear just what she might do, since she's shown that she always has an ace up her sleeve and is very capable. Those fears are justified, since she even makes it out of that in the end, and the only reason they caught her is because she literally turned herself in. She's very good at what she does and she'd a very capable warlord, merciful and brutal in equal respects. So, in some senses, I wonder if going back to a boring old life where there wasn't much she was good at or passionate about is actually what she wants. I actually wonder if she even could go back. She's good at what she does, and I wonder if even subconouisly she likes it.
That's all I have to say really, and this is a very well done video.
Though I will say, you did Labyrinth dirty with that D ranking.
thanks for the great post and analysis, we really liked it so we will leave it pinned for some time, if that's cool with you!
@@RoundaboutCast That’s fine, thank you! And once again nice work on the video
Yeah im not sure Taylor is alive either, dead or in coma is my personal take on her status in the end. Lean towards coma, because of the Undersiders talking about her in the epilogue. If she was alive in earth Aleph Tattletale would have no way to monitor the situation, and if she was dead there’s no reason too monitor her. I think the epilogue was a coma dream.
I interpreted the epilogue as Taylor being "saved" by the QA shard and living a happy 'afterlife' in an idealized reality, similar to a Coil simulation. Not really dead but not really alive either. Her apotheosis with QA making a strong enough connection that her mind is offloaded into QA, who doesn't want to lose best girl but also best girl can't ever go back to the real world after being god.
I just re-read worm and noticed one thing. In epilogue on earth aleph Taylor constantly feels incomprehensible anxiety and surrealism, maybe even abnormality of what surrounded her. It's easily explained by powerful PTSD she has after all, but... The feeling is kinda similar for what she had in agnosia epidemic, when she was accompanied by Jack and Bonesaw, but far weaker. So this is also thought provoking, that epilogue is all unreal.
My personal thought that is all going in her mind, maybe even in her shard, in shardspace or where else, and her real body is in coma somewhere in the deepest deeps at the most secret base of Tattletale. And Lisa both wants and afraid of Taylor's resurrection.
Very disappointed that Imp doesn't end up in "Who?"
Same same same same same. 03:22:20
How can you make a list with a "Who?"-tier and not even consider putting Imp in it?
We actually genuinely forgot we did her after the fact, we thought she somehow wasn't on the tier list at all. So her power worked in a pretty literal sense if that makes you feel any better
@@RoundaboutCast lol nice
I read worm and I don't remember that character, is it from the squeal?
@@RoundaboutCast ok, soooo.. you "forgot" about her? i guess it's legit then?
*jumps to a random point in the video*
"I guess he's an okay Nazi."
Timestamp?
“She’s fucking BLIND?” Still greatest moment
I was screaming out of excitement in that sceen
Funny enough, Aegis nearly became the new protag after Leviathan. Wildbow used a random number generator to determine who would live or die during that battle, with Taylor debuffed and Aegis buffed. Taylor had a critical success while Aegis had a critical fail when those dice were rolled. Even in meta, Taylor beats the f**king odds!
What was Wildbow's plan if taylor had died? I feel it would've been very anticlimatic if Taylor had died just like that
@@nazzarynnavarronunez9471 Not certain about the full plan, only that Aegis was slated for the new protag, likely Gallant would've had a bigger role in the Victoria/Amy nightmare had he survived. I do know that the scene Wildbow wrote with Taylor dying had Rachel and her dogs arriving too late to save her and Gladly emerging from the bunker and recognizing Taylor. I haven't delved too deep into all this, so I can't say how that would've impacted things. In any case, I think we can see why Wildbow abandoned the random number generator
Yeah this is one of the coolest facts about Worm
Source pls
Holy fuck really? The idea of Taylor just dying at Levisthan hurts my soul.
"Heartbreaker made Regent the man he is today." Nah, I'm pretty sure that was Behemoth.
Ouch
"A cyborg and an AI have the best romance of the story."
I think my favorite part of the story is still when Lisa gives her the “You never learned to ask for help..." speech. Mostly because you can tell how hurt Tattletale is by losing the friend she so badly wanted to save, and also that she was right. Taylor didn't ask for help much, but she did made demands. Second best line is of course "Finally, everyone was working together."
As far as Eidolon goes, word of god is that he did subconsciously create the Endbringers. He doesn't have direct control over what his power does or what it gives him, it only ever gives him what ne needs. He needed worthy opponents.
Thanks, Eidolon. Thanks a bunch, bro.
He didn't create them so much as he tapped into something that Eden had pre-prepared and woke them. His subconscious desire is why they acted the way they did.
Not a promise, nor a malidiction nor a curse. Inevitable, is that how she put it? I told them. Warned them.
I love the paths Defiant and Dragon take, they are on the same line but start at the opposite ends. Defiant is a human becoming a bit of a machine while Dragon is a machine becoming a bit of a human. And they meet at the middle in the sweetest way.
We love Mom and Dad here at the Roundabout Cast
he was a man-who-wanted-to-be-a-computer, she was a computer-who-wanted-to-be-a-woman, can I make it any more obvious?
I absolutely loved Taylor's last ending scene of her 'alive' because her entire life has been about escalation, about necessity of control and how she deals with chaos ironically millions of times better than anyone else, and now she's been FORCED to let go. It's her personal version of hell, but at the same time it's one that can lead her into genuinely HEALING from all the damage she's taken to her mental state from the very start.
"W-we're all so very small in the end."
And after shattering God himself, Taylor is out of the picture because that's all she is. Not a Noble Shard user, not even a Cape, she's just a normal person. And that's all she will ever be now
This is a great take on her ending!
@@RoundaboutCast Thank you for saying so! I'm glad you found my thoughts on her interesting. Taylor is very different as a protagonist but because of that I think it's so interesting to analyze her.
Loved your video! Especially with how you put Eidolon in A tier, since he's one of my favorite characters in the series
Just realized that this tier list lacks the real best character in Worm: the most powerful man in the world, Kevin Norton.
That's a great point, I think lesser characters made it in compared to such a great interlude character!
@@RoundaboutCast Definitely. He was only in that one chapter, but he’s one of the characters I keep coming back to whenever I think of Worm. Just a genuinely good guy who’s been beat down by life again and again, who has done a great thing by getting Scion on the side of good, yet finds that outweighed by the fact that just because he chose to word his request in a specific way, millions have died. Plus his conversation with Lisette is so well written, especially that last line. “Good deal, isn’t it? Ten pounds to become the most powerful person in the world.” I don’t know why, but that’s just stuck with me for some reason. Him believing in her so much just because of one simple act of kindness.
But clearly, whoever made the tier list thought that Strapping Lad and Rosary deserved their spots on it more than him, so who are we to judge, lol.
By the way, if you don’t mind me asking, have you guys considered giving Ward a similar treatment to Worm? I know that it’s never reached the same popularity, but I’d love to hear your take on it. I really think that Wildbow absolutely nailed the characters in a way that Worm never quite reached, although it wasn’t always quite as good in other areas.
Anyway, thanks for the quality content, as well as the response. I’ve watched through all of your episodes on Worm before, yet I still find myself putting them on during long shifts at work when I’m in the mood for Parahumans, along with the audiobook and We’ve Got Worm / Ward. Good stuff. :)
@@Kriosaivak Thanks for the good discussion, we love to see some of our videos that have been out for a while still get such great comments. As far as Ward, I don't think we have plans on starting it any time soon, and we've given a few reasons why here and there.
As for me (Willer), I'm not particularly enthusiastic about starting another huge story with a lot of the same cast as side characters. The setting has also expanded in scope so much from the original Brockton Bay + occasional other city that it's hard for me to comprehend. For Bradley, he read the first few arcs in the past and was mixed on it. Tyler doesn't seem particularly interested and wikipedia'd some stuff that didn't inspire confidence, BUT he's still pretty down to do it eventually. We've heard some mixed opinions on Ward, everything from it's not as engaging to it being Wildbow's best work, etc. If anything we are more likely to give Twig a shot in the future.
@@RoundaboutCast Ah, darn. Well, I certainly hope that you’ll change your mind someday, I’m certainly in the “Wildbow’s Best Work” category, but I completely understand why some people don’t like it. It definitely feels very different than Worm.
Regardless though, thanks a bunch for the response to the comment, I really appreciate it. Guess I ought to give Twig a shot, see if I’d be interested in following along if you start it! :)
Dinah alcott might have been my favorite character for telling director tagg how he is about to die.
It never fails to make me smile that a cape nameed Canary was sent to the Birdcage. Granted, she got shafted when it happened, but damn the irony is so thinck, you can spread it with a butter knife.
Coil’s Sniper should’ve been on the list
Fucking true.
@@artyom-ovsepyan What did you think S-tier stood for?
Late thing but Velocity had a great moment in the Leviathan fight where he ran from the water to land and Trickter swapped him with someone in the water over and over to save people.
Regarding Eidolon's relationship with the Endbringers, we see alternate versions of them in Eden's flash sideways interlude, so we know these superweapons exist without him, so I think the prevailing theory is that Eidolon's shard activated them rather than created them.
Ah that makes a lot more sense. That might make them another element introduced by the Entities to force maximum conflict.
I know that the endbringers were part of the cycle but I thought story-wise that Eidolon's desires caused them to manifest far stronger than what is normally necessary.
@@historicalwalrus589 They were part of Edens side of the plan, essentially being almighty drivers of conflict, interacting with and antagonising civilizations to create more DATA. When Eden *brainfart.SFX* they remained dormant. But then Eidelon drank some no-no juice and gained control of one of Eden's "royal shards", from there he accidentally awoke the end-bringers and made them start fucking shit up.
4:08 It’s a Wildbow story. Nothing gets better. Feeling happiness and satisfaction while reading it is entirely an unintended side effect.
Note: This is NOT a power scaling tier list!!
A tier list of every worm character! Except Garrot/Sveta who doesn't appear to be in the list but is definitely A tier. Taylor's Lawyer in Arc 20 is also A tier.
PS: Bonus Minigame - try to find the portion of the video where we accidentally open up a Slack chat and comment below with the time stamp (so that I may remove it). We're pretty sure it happened during this recording, but couldn't find the moment after multiple look throughs? So either we've all gone insane or it's that hard to miss.
Watched the whole thing and I didn't see it.
Phir Se was also missing from this list.
@@electroflame6188 We definitely think Phir Se is cool, Bradley in particular rates him extremely high.
The point about Taylor saying she won't do anything near as important again after GM, I disagree with her Aleph-Mom. I mean, she can have kids or something and do things that are important to her, but in the grand scheme of things, she saved all of the worlds and sacrificed everything for it, that is who she is. A quiet life going to university or something, is that really Taylor? She actually did peak there imo
this is the problem i have with so much YA! like you will always be defined by something you did as a child and nothing you can do will top that. she did peak fs
@@maddiepaddy2608 well good thing she lost her power as wards ends I woould get terrified if Taylor become a titan 😭.anyway I couldn't understand one thing can you help me how in the hell does glastig uaine get over khepri control I didn't understand that
@@nuckfiggas8008 When doormaker's battery begins to break Queen Administrator manages Khepri's army. She dumps them all out in New York and makes a smaller, more efficient army that she can operate within her 15 foot radius. Scrub and Labyrinth manage to make the cut of the smaller army because together they can simulate the Doormaker. It's never fully explained, you just read Glaistig doing something out of Khepri's control all of a sudden in 30.7.
@@fletcherw32 another guy replied to me that glastiang uaine just passes over khepri's control to her ghosts or whatever
"You needed worthy opponents."
That twist stuck with me till today and I haven't reached Eidolon yet in the video, but that makes him a SSS+ character for me.
A few notes:
Satyrical can make clones of himself that look like other people
Bambina bounces around and gets more energy the more she bounces, exploding on each bounce, she basically throws herself at the floor to start up, and she tries to become a famous villain for corporate sponsorship but was jealous of Skitter for moving her down in the villain rankings, also appeared in the background at the Leviathan fight
I’m p sure Chubster dies because his power means the less he moves the less he can be moved, so Taylor couldn’t do chest compressions
Revel’s lantern can store and fire energy, and it’s made by a Tinker, so in mechanics it’s less similar to Behemoth than Taylor’s power is to the Simurgh’s
I remember somebody said there was a WoG post saying Eidolon actually did activate the Endbringers
Oni Lee’s power is literally making him brain-dead
Glaistig Uaine has the only Shard that can understand literally anything not related to conflict
WoG says Marquis is pronounced Marquiss, so I just pronounce it Mark Was so it’s wrong in every interpretation
More WoG says Shadow Stalker basically turned into her Shard at her Trigger
Can you elaborate on glastig uaine cuz I was confused when she broke free of khepri control .I welcome any theory you might have
@@nuckfiggas8008 Apparently, Glaistig just redirected control to one of her ghosts somehow, possibly related to how she knew Eidolon was going to drain her Shard when he unlocked that power but maybe not
@@mineralfinder6822 hey have you checked out worm animation clips there was a channel which was making clips with amazing graphics .You should check it out. search Welcome to Brockton bay. 😎.
Brain Dead is the wrong word for it, he isn't technically brain damaged in anyway, he's closer to ego death than brain dead. Everything we hear about it equates more to amnesia and ego death.
I remember liking bambina. She was an early example of a professional villain.
I'm watching it in parts as a bit of a Worm refresher because I want to get back into Wildbow. While watching a worm meme video there was an Oliver meme, went back to this video and it started exactly where you guys started to talk about Oliver.
I've been having a bit of a brain rut lately towards reading and that's severely hampered my ability to keep up with Pale, but you guys discussing Worm and it's characters really reminded me of my time with the serial and how much enjoyment I got from reading Wildbow's stuff. y'all really made my day with this.
As someone who reads a lot, and I mean A LOT of Worm fanfiction, it is really interesting to see the characters that you hardly remember, that the fanon has made me really aware of, for example Cranial, as a part of Toybox, shows up in a ton of fanfictions, but you have never heard of them. Also Animos, when an OP Taylor in a fanfic goes to fix everything, one easy target is often taking out The Teeth, so that guy shows up as well sometimes. They're not really characters there either, but at least they actually show up and aren't just mentioned once or twice. Really nice to see some Worm content back on the menu boys
Edit: Faultline is cool! At least in fanfiction....
Edit: I think all characters from Brockton Bay are well known to fanfic readers, because every fanfic at least starts, if not entirely takes place there
This is really interesting! I don't think even Bradley keeps up with Worm fanfics so it's funny how some of these nobodies come to life to in the world of fanfics. Thanks for sharing, Shacuras!
I found y’all through your Worm content but have just caught up to One Piece and have been going through Wano with y’all and I absolutely love your thoughts on OP in general! You guys are great c:
That is so nice to hear! That's literally the best we could ever hope for with our channel, we'd love to share things we love with others who might like things we love. Experiencing and becoming attached to a new piece of media is one of the best things to share with others in life.
These guys... have some really, really weird takes, and yet most of their conclusions I ended up agreeing with, while finding the reasons they gave borderline nonsense. What a strange world we live in.
We know people can't always agree on these things, but part of the reason our tier list videos are so long is because we try to at least make our stance clear and decently understandable, even if people disagree.
Bradley is pretty up to date with fan impressions on Worm related characters, but Tyler and Willer are not as much. What are some of the weirder picks in the tier list for you?
@@RoundaboutCast It's less that there are weird picks for me, rather that most of the picks are on point, but I would not have put them where they are for the same reasons you guys did. That said, I don't exactly agree with a lot of the fan impressions of characters either. XD I think seeing so many of the characters from Taylor's very flawed perspective, including Taylor herself, can color the reaction to them that people have pretty strongly.
So, just a thing: Iron Rain isn't a "him." Iron Rain was Kaiser's older sister, who got killed before the start of the story. I don't know why I remember that, but I do.
There's not much WoG of her, all we knew about her is that, she is elder sis of Kaiser, but not heir of empire sure. But still OP because her name is literally.
@@AlVonVo Hmmm. Must be misattributing something I read in a Worm fanfic to canon, then.
@@Just_A_Dude the old Empire is kinda more norse (more patriarchy?) than nazism, that's why IronRain is not heir i think, but because of lack of WoG she has many Fanon, like she is the actual heir but assassinated by kaiser with Gezzelshaft help or that she is Rival/Lover of Marquis.
Ok, so Rachel has a partial animal mind (like Tobias), she takes care of animals, Cassidy exists, she morphs animals... she’s straight up just Animorphs. It’s awesome!
God I can't say why I watched this all the way through, but it was really enjoyable. Fun to watch and listen to people's thoughts and see others as obsessed with this shit. Seeing a lot of people end up exactly where I wanted them to. String Theory S tier all day. Also this made me laugh.
"I didn't really care about Teacher in Worm, I hear he's important in Ward but he was awful in Worm"
Don't worry he's a big part of Ward and you still won't give a shit about him lmaoooo, awful ass character
Glad you enjoyed it! And glad to hear that despite his name being Teacher, the dude can't escape awful grades loool
I'm here for this Worm love but I am STAYING for the Blake Thorburn love at the end there. SSSS Tier
Dude we love Blake. He sits on his own tier as a god damn legend, and we say this as people who arent even close to finishing Pact.
@@RoundaboutCast pleaaase, do one for Pact ;-;
@@CaMallmann Ugh we'd love to! Running out of Pact audio book has kinda put us in a tough spot, but we can't wait forever before having to bust out some reading. But once we do finish it sometime in the future, we would love to do one!
@@RoundaboutCast Oh, right, I forgot it doesn't have a complete audiobook yet. It just has some of my favorite worldbuilding. And your reflections on the video made me really curious about your opinions on Pact.
Anyhow, loved the video, you guys noticed and figured out many things I've missed in my reading years ago, and watching this reanimated my hype on Wildbow's works.
Its impressive how much afterlife Worm can have.
Also, on 19:15 you guys make the point that if Dragon hadn't been disabled by Saint, maybe Jack would've been stopped. But exactly when that happens, Dinah says that the doomsday odds were reduced. My personal theory is that when Saint killed her, it diminished the chances that she could stop Khepri. And considering Dragon has a shard, she would never be able to stop Jack directly, I think. Just wanted to join the conversation a bit :p
@@CaMallmann That's a cool theory! And if you want to check out some opinions on Pact, we do have 2-3 videos covering the first 7 arcs!
I forgot that Golem didn’t get the final hit on Jack... bummer man.
The decisive blow to Jack came from an unpowered PRT guy, which it kind of had to given that Jack's power is essentially to never lose against parahumans
Wasn't it Golem who realised "Hey, I think Jack can't lose against capes, here's my idea for taking him down" and then his strategy worked. He didn't get the final blow, but it was his plan that stopped Jack, in the end, getting him foamed and, in a way, convincing Grey Boy to bubble him.
@@andrewsauer9669 Jack's power was plot armor incarnate
@@glowerworm True it was unbalanced as shit but he still got fucked up in the end. The moral of the story for Jack is probably "fuck around, find out"
@@andrewsauer9669 yeah. I just meant to say that a lot of characters' powers were literal interpretations of common book tropes/tools. Skitter's was omniscient overview of battles for narration purposes. Tattletale's was character backstory-exposition. Imp's was kinda reversed-she had character development entirely off-screen, because of her power. And Jack's was plot armor.
Dinah’s theme music should be that Korean penguin advertisement for a mobile game that TH-cam has.
This is exactly what I needed
I believe Screener was one of the Teacher provided capes to Cauldron during Gold Morning that allowed Doctor Mother to use The Clairvoyant without as bad of side effects
Fuck yeah, Taylor has to be S because she's the main character of an S-tier story. It's that simple
Absolutely wonderful work, there is far to few material talking about worm...
Okay well, can there ever really be enough?
Obligatory: Panacea in A tier! Absolutely disgraceful, disgusting even!
She is at least S. Above S even, perhaps even Rei-tier.
Man, this is a great 4 hours. I'm a hardcore worm fan and i'm glad i found this
This was really entertaining. I hope you guys do something with worm again soon no matter how unlikely it is
Also they really went on record saying no one knows if Taylor is alive but in the last chapter of worm there's this excerpt
" Rachel nodded, satisfied.
“And Taylor?” Imp asked.
“I’ll keep looking after things in that department,” Tattletale said. “If that’s cool?”
“That’s cool,” Imp said.
They made their way down the last two flights of stairs."
Are we not to assume tattletale knows Taylor is alive?"
1:29:00 My favorite thing with Wanton was when they pretended that he was Golem's power to avoid tipping Jack off that he was helping him
BRO I LOVE CLOCKBLOCKER and damsel of distress' name is also great so hope i can root for her
Yay! People who love slash as much as I do!
In my opinion he is the villain of worm. Not just because he sets off the end of the world but because narratively he is the antithesis of taylor. A lot of worm is taylor thinking "if I had the power I would be more responsible with it, I know how to use it best" or something along those lines. And thats what Jack is, a destructive child who was given a blank check to fuck the world and suffer no consequences. And he was handed this power by the ultimate authority in the setting. He is the definition of undeserving of the power (to influence people, not literal super power) that he has.
We absolutely agree, Jack Slash is the closest thing to a villain in the story! Great take on him.
His flashback/interlude where it shows him taking out King and basically shrugging and saying "fuck it" too become the worst monster in history is my favorite chapter of worm.
@@sicksock435446I think one of the things that makes Jack such an excellent villain is that he’s almost… past his prime? Like, he did what he said he would do. He made a name for himself, became a threat on par with fucking ENDBRINGERS, hell he even had a dude who killed one of the triumvirate on his team. He did all the main storyline, all the side quests, and now he’s just fucking around and getting his kicks in. He’s jobbing HARD because he wants to have fun. And then he finds out about him ending the world, and he gets excited, because that means he finally has something new and entertaining to do.
Yeah, he’s in my top 5 characters lmao.
3 year old video ik, but I have a completely different understanding of Oliver's power. You guys described it as the shard that made the avatars and he slightly shapeshifts into his understanding of what he looks like, but I am of the opinion that he got a full dose of exclusively the Control component of the Cauldron vial he shared with Noelle. Whereas Noelle got the raw power contained in the vial, he got the part that has the encoded value of whatever power the entities used to frame shards around human limitations. Because of that, he's progressively shifting into the Most Average Human. Every time he's described, it reads like a description of an uncanny-valley render of a person.
That is a really cool way to explain it!
Such a breath of fresh air! I've been immersed in the fanfiction fandom for so long that I forgot you could like Saint haha
Really enjoyed the video, boys. There would have been some strong words with y'all if Imp and Bitch didn't get into S tier. You should make more Worm content!
Saint is 'F' tier for being everything I look for in a little luddite bitch.
Who's gonna tell them that Kid Win died
KID WIN WHAT???
Woo! Mark worming his way up to C Tier!
3:02:50 no, it wasn’t really like that. Hookwolf attempted to leverage the crisis to advance his own agenda. He basically wanted the Undersiders and the Travelers to give up their territory. And he didn’t agree to a compromise
The Simurgh is just vibin’
I hope you get around to Ward at some point. I’m a good ways into it, and I’m loving it.
Also, loved going through all of these podcasts after finishing Worm. Some great content. :)
The fucking gall to put Squealer in E tier but put Sleeper in S tier is incredible
I think what I like about Pretender is that he's such a downer character. He's arguably the single strongest cape and his most defining trait is that he still isn't good enough for the one thing he strives for.
"...29 because there's a good arc in there somewhere" SAVAGE
I see you guys like the villain protagonist trope. Have you watched Dexter? The first 4 seasons are fire, then it goes downhill from there and it has one of the worst endings in tv history, only behind GoT. But I still think it's worth watching just for the first half alone.
Dexter is a show I don't think any of us have watched, hearing about that ending can be pretty off putting. There is a lot of good anti-hero style stories out there right now, so we're not necessarily starving for them!
@@RoundaboutCast The MC is a serial killer who only kills serial killers. It's the closest thing to Death Note minus the god complex. I see it as a combination of Death Note, Breaking Bad and it has some overlapping themes with Worm (the dark passenger).
The ending is bad but it doesn't retroactively ruin the good parts. Every season is its own thing, with its own main villain. You can drop it after the first (imo the best) season and still get something out of the series since the seasons are self-contained. You will know if the series is for you after the first episode, so I'd say it's worth a shot when you are in the mood for another anti-hero story. It's still one of the best of its kind, despite the ending.
Only just found Worm this year and have been consuming every bit of content i can find and i still didn’t remember half these characters. Can’t believe one of my favorite was in Who thouh. Vex is a Teeth cape who could make razor sharp fields of forcefields that would shred people. She was such a cool power set but did not get nearly enough time in the spotlight for my liking. Same for the rest of the Teeth.
Lots of what you talk about pays off well in Ward once you get used to the new tone of the book.
Saint was canonically right to do what he did. The odds Dinah presented dramatically improved pretty much the moment Dragon was put down.
Ashbeast is only an A class threat, because he just walks around the sahara desert, and everyone can get out of the way.
no reaction for the balls of steel joke for weld?? that was hilarious. so many potential puns
I'm really shocked you guys didn't find the Battery interlude interesting I remember it being one of my favourites. It was funny and really made me care abt two characters that didn't really stand out to me.
I remember Moord Nag because she asks for one-hundred-thousand cape bodies for her shadow to eat and Taylor goes "No that's monstrous!" and Dr. Mother immediately turns around and goes "I can get you 100k regular bodies by tomorrow but 100k cape bodies will take 27 years." And there is no elaboration.
I think I'm gonna have to reread worm lol there are too many names I didn't recognize
As you can see in the video we couldn't remember a chunk of the characters either! There's so many characters that I think it happens to everyone!
omg the tier list i made :'D so happy
You made this tier list!? You're a life saver, we had so much fun doing this. Thanks for setting this up, these things can take a while to make.
@@RoundaboutCast Yessss I did! I was frustrated with pictures tier for Worm because everyone has a different mental picture and the arts were badly cropped, so I decided to use names, then everyone could have fun :3
@@kanaya2011 That was definitely the right choice!
Hero is cool because he had Eden's Stilling Shard, the power Scion thinks is so useful he keeps it to himself as a last resort the same as Path to Victory (we see Scion use it to stop tidal waves without collateral damage and kill people instantly). If Hero had survived, he could have been great.
His shard was way better, it was something like "wavelength manipulation", which tapped into a bunch of the processes shards use regularly, including dimensional travel, energy manipulation and 'stilling'.
Tattle tale and cherish should be S, my favorite thing in fiction is characters revealing secrets or backstory, just showing another side to themselves. Tattle tale and cherish are fucking annoying, but I love them becuase they create that reveal scenario time and time again
Saving this video for when I finish Worm
2:19:47 I never put together that defiant ended up acquiescing to mannequins request until this moment 😮
I think the end ringers were always there, like enforcers or instruments to drum up conflict in civilizations. I think eidolons “High priest” shard basically just activated them and transmitted his subconscious desires.
Another thing I think a lot of people don’t take into consideration is that the shards aren’t *superpowers*
The shards were meant only for the entities and are basically like cells of their bodies, which is why some abilities seem really weird of extra
Put that thing back where we found it, or so help me, monsters inc quote had me dyng
Absolutely amazing to watch.
I dont think Ove ever had a more viscerally negative reaction about a book or movie opinion as I did when I heard "Taylor was a C tier character..." like holy shit
You did the homie Satyr dirty. He was a real one 😔 #freesatyrical
Blasto probably was introduced by a mention before his chapter.
That clicking is driving me insane, what's up with that?
I love how pretender becomes Alexandria
She's brain dead because her brain her weakness but her body still fine so just use a master to puppet her corpse
*short conversation trying to remember who a specific character is*
*Brief pause*
"This is a shit show already."
Sounds like every conversation I have about stuff I read/watch/play
Imagine the creator of the tierlist put every cape that was mentioned in the leviathan arc. Like i bet my kidney no one knows who woebegone is for example
Parahumans vs Wuxia: hope to find more Chinese fans here. Worm really reminded me of Chinese wuxia rather than most superhero stories. See if you agree and add more.
Taylor - 萧峰 + 杨过
Tattletale - 黄蓉
Regent - 欧阳克
Coil - 左冷禅, but with the snake motif of 欧阳锋
Kaiser - 岳不群
Sophia - 丁敏君
Marquis - 黄药师
Armsmaster - 杨过 also
Dragon - 小龙女 obviously
Victoria - 令狐冲 + 周翡
Amy - 梅超风
Trickster - 游坦之
Teacher - 洪安通
Bonesaw - 周伯通
Protectorate - 全真教
I don't read moon-runes my dude...
@@sicksock435446it's Chinese
Why do I see this so often, is it bots or something?
@@lordjj2549 I'm a literary scholar and I'm playing a literary game.
Of course there's a 3 hour 42 minute video like this on TH-cam.
Where's Glenn
All the while Apeiron is dabbing on them all without even trying. Gotta love Brockton's Celestial Forge. Also Greg Veder with The Gamer powerset.
Just started Greg Veder vs the World. Having a blast so far.
This also makes me think of fossil fighters where the gathering of monsters is a far larger part of the game and is one of the bigger selling points
Scapegoat is so bad at using his powers, it’s wild that he made money taking awful injuries. He did heal Taylor though, so I respect him for that.
The crazy take is that he triggered due to an alternate version of himself using a similar power.
His power works by scanning the multiverse for alternate versions of the same person with no injuries and then overlapping them. People describe random uncomfortable sensations while its working, like getting glimpses of a rolodex.
Before Scapegoat triggered: "He thought his powers meant he finally had relief from a life of what seemed like an endless march of failing health, new illnesses, syndromes, and mystery diagnoses. The poor bastard.". Seems similar to the effect his power has on people when he is curing them.
Essentially the theory is that some other Sscapegoat had a healing power which dumped symptoms into alternate realities. Our Scapegoat got an inverted version of those powers, possibly as a bud from the same shard.
I know this is like 3 years old, but Eden should have been S when you realize she completes the parallel between Taylor, Danny, Annette and Zion, Eden, Queen Administrator.
Dead Mom
Depressed Dad
Rebellious Daughter
Yeah, but... I think, we need SS, SSS, and SSS+ tier for... SCION, for example. Because Armsmaster and SCION in one tier looks like a joke. And, ofc, as Tattletale fun, I am outraged by her absence in S tier.
You guys are underated keep making content
Also Defiant KILLED SION
1:55:00 legend can do more interesting stuff as well, like having a breajer state to go super fast in which he loses track of time or his train of thought, so it seems like he just transported inmediatly up in the place he pictured in his head before accelarting, also the fact that he can't seem to slow down
roundabout cast tier list:
S
guy with the nerdy voice (he contributed the most), other guy, other guy, (other guy? i cant tell)
grue was cool at first but after skitter confessed i was hoping for a new love interest (weld o clockblocker) and he got really boring
For me he wasn't that intresting even from start my fav are Taylor and tattletale.really hoped that wildow would have elaborated more on sleeper
@@nuckfiggas8008 I think that happens in ward? I havent read all of it yet. Also skitter only did one side quest with regent and imp so it felt like they weren't even friends
@@maddiepaddy2608 yeah I am currently reading wards right now
really really love this video :3
When I first read this (17) I identitied with Armsmaster lol
What page dod you use to build tier lists?
I can't believe you put my two favourite characters (Ash Beast and String Theory) in D tier, but you put fucking Saint in B tier. Saint is a boring character with a boring, clichéd motivation. The only interesting thing about him is that he actually uses Ascalon on Dragon. Other than that he's a boring 'terrified of AI' character. How could you put him above someone who, in another universe, destroyed the fucking moon! Her power is incredibly interesting, making WMDs as long as it's on a specific schedule. And Ash Beast? Someone who went toe to toe with Scion for a decent amount of time, a walking natural disaster? That's so fucking cool! I'd love to read a story focusing on Ash Beast, or on String Theory, way more than I want to read one about Skidmark, Saint, Lab Rat, or fucking *Gavel*
Saint has a pretty cool morally ambiguous angle while those other characters didn't really contribute much to the story.
Shen Yu 😢 didn't he get killed right before or during Gold Morning and Khepri was disappointed that she had to look for an alternative?
Never mind bro tried to stop her shortly after she reach the Chinese world and got thrashed
Hard disagree on a lot of those placements, which was inevitable, but still ...
Any of the picks you hard disagree with?
@@RoundaboutCast I know this is like 8 months on but i wanted to give my opinion. I think panacea deserves to be near the top of s tier. She is not a nice or even likeable character but she embodies the themes of worm so well. Brought up in a shitty situation, given powers that seem initially like they might make her life better but actually just make it worse in the end. Tries to be a good person but ends up doing really shitty thing and that’s how she’s remembered. She definitely wasn’t likeable but her plot made the world feel alive to me.
Also think Danny deserved to be higher. He’s one of the most realistic characters to me. People love to say how they would act in a situation and be strong but the fact is a lot of the time people just don’t know how to handle really tough situations. He’s struggling for most of the story but then when Taylor turns herself in he’s able to stand with her. He was a frustrating character but I think he’s one of the best written and deserves to be higher.
Lastly I think purity should be higher. I think it’s really rare that there’s a nazi character that has more to them than just being racist. As a black dude it did make me a bit uncomfortable reading her interlude but it was so interesting. She wanted to be a good person and mum but she couldn’t shake the beliefs that she had. She’s obviously still psycho even without the racism considering how she acts when aster is taken but I did find her to be an interesting character.
When’s the ward tier list coming out??
Don't hold your breath on that one!
@@RoundaboutCast Sad!
Most of the arguments were: the x he did againts scion makes him a x character
Heartbreaker is just Killua Zoldycks’ dad from HxH as far as I’m concerned.
I kinda dislike hookwolf cause he restricts his own power for the sake of aesthetics it's not even like panacea who doesn't do cool power shit cause of character reasons hookwolf just does it cause of AeStHeTiCs
I love that actually that’s so fucking funny like. bro could be so powerful but he’s too committed to his aesthetic LMAO
Pretty sure Vex is like part of the teeth or something