How using multiple speakers changes the guitar sound! 1X10 vs 2X10 vs 4X10
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 18 ก.ย. 2024
- In this video I investigate how the guitar is influenced when you use different number of speakers with your amp. I'm gonna play a 2019 Marshall SV20H amp through a 1x10, a 2x10 and a 4x10 all using the same Eminence Blue Alnico Horse shoe speakers and discuss there results.
This channel is criminally underrated as far as subscribers go. Johan does by far the most interesting, and toneful, videos on TH-cam.
Thanks man! Makes my day to hear that!
@@JohanSegeborn Even if I subscribed a long time ago, your videos are shown each time I am searching for something ;-)
As a lifelong amateur guitar player who has the vibe of music running through his veins, I whole heartily agree with you. Viva Johan !!
I was thinking the 4x10 would sound the best, but I thought the 2x10 sounded great!
Thanks! The 2x10 format is so much more practical to move around also
I am guessing the enclosure of the Deville makes it less detailed than tbe typical super reverb cab! @johan any chance to have a vídeo comparing the same amp with a Princeton, vibrolux and super reverb cab? 🤯❤️
In this test yes the 2x10 sounds the best. But it's hard to say if the 4x10 would be better if the test had more similar cabs. Anyways great video !
Yes, the jump in quality from a 1x10 to a 2x10 is much greater than the 2x10 vs 4x10. 2x10 seems to be the biggest bang for your buck.
IMO, the 2x10" sounds twice as nice as the single 10", however the 4x10" does not sound twice as good as the 2x10".
Verdict, I'll stick with just a pair of speakers for now.
GREAT Content Johan, thank you.
Thanks HK! Glad to hear it
Hello Johan, from a listener perspective I prefer the 2x10 setup, to my ears the 1x10 sounds " too dry" and the 4x10 " too engulfed", it' s the best in between solution, cheers!
Thanks Vincenzo! Cheers!
I agree, although the 1x10" really opened up on the later examples and actually sounded better, unlike with the earlier samples. - It just goes to show that it changes a lot depending on what you send into the equipment. I mean, it makes me want to stop comparing and just use whatever and work from there.
I’ve been using 410 cabs for about 15 years now. I love the off axis coverage and fullness I get with my Fenders single coils.
I played a 1959 4x10 Bassman for the first time the other day. I normally use a deluxe reverb. The punch and power you get from higher wattage amps and 4 speakers is really amazing. It changes the way you play. It’s so percussive. I’ve been a 1x12 combo guys for a long while, but nothing matches the powerful feeling of several speakers moving a lot of air.
Yeah Bassman and Deluxe really invite to different types of playing
Hi, Johan! These videos are brilliant. You pursue all the questions that consume the hardest guitar nerds. Thank you.
Such a great comparison! In this case I think the 2 x 10 combination really enhanced the bell-like tone of the Strat.
Thanks Eddie!
I like the directness of the 1x10. It maybe harder to play because you can't hide behind the big low end of the other 2. But it seems you get a lot of nice clarity back for it.
I really preferred the 2x10, however I get the feeling in a big enough room that 4x10 would really move the air and that additional low end would make a ton of sense
The 2×10s maybe the most versatile amps, great for recording, live small clubs, but even big stages mic'd and thru PA. Great video, thanks Johan.
I have a Laney LX15 with 2x8, and I swear, being only a 15-watt amp, it sounds loud as a 40-watt amp comparably. Not bad for $89 USD.
@@kiillabytez Good to know, thanks.
Interesting, I read the comments and I am not surprised at all the differences the comments were about what listeners liked. I liked all the cabinets, and I imagined how each would work for me. Good video. Cheers 😀
Thanks Ken! Cheers
Whenever I've doubt. Always get back to this channel to setup my gear. Very cool channel
The 1x10 was a real surprise. Very focused and full-range and immediate. The 2x10 was probably the best overall for tone and definition but lacked some of the immediacy of the 1x10. Surprisingly the 4x10 came in last for me. Kinda farty on the low end and tubby sounding and congested. Very, very interesting Johan!
Thanks Steve, glad to hear it!
Hi! I think it depends on what amp you are using. For what you use in this demo I like the 2x10 best. I thought the 4x10 had a little to much low end. Of course there can be many variables on this. The size of the venue etc. But for this demo 2x10 is perfect. Cheers!
Thanks Darrell! That’s a good point. There are indeed amps, settings and riffs that could favor any of these. Cheers!
I remember years ago I put my jcm 900 dual reverb through an ampeg cab with a horn on it that was my friends. Man that thing was amazing.
Keith used to play through SVT 810
The single 1 just sounded so honest to me.
I've always had problems choosing the sound based on the size of the driver due so many variables, qaulity/voicing of the driver, resistance, cab size, cab quality, tube configurations, power amp output. It's all very interesting, love these videos, I learn alot.
I've never like single 10inch drivers mostly because they end up in a small box, hence that dull boxy sound. I liked the 2 and 4x10s I this video.
Thanks man, glad to hear it!
Love to hear that little Marshall head cranked through the Vibrolux cab with your Gibson.
That can be arranged :-)
I'd wager the different speaker baffles have a lot to do with the differences in sound too.
A good follow up test would be to record using 1, 2, and all 4 speakers in the same 4x10 cab.
That does have an influence indeed. I tried a single 12” in a 412 cab here: th-cam.com/video/Aba8WaCz_Dg/w-d-xo.html
Last time I bid on some EVM10s on Ebay, some more substantial person with $2850 to spare got them instead, hence I have a 4X10 cabinet with only two speakers in it. Giant vents like that don't bump up the bass as much, I think, but that is another tone, and about twenty kilos less to move around. Anyway that is a tasty way of running two speakers.
I didn't think it would make that much of a difference!
The 4x10 sounded the best to me! It does something with the highs that the others just didn't. Thank you for the comparison!
Thanks!
Thanks Johan, VERY educational for my tone perception. Can definately hear the effect now. I would be interested in the measurement of the frequency to see it also . Great Job!
Thanks, glad to hear it! Yeah it would be interesting to see how much of the differences in frequency curves comes from mutual coupling or from the cabs
I have always preferred the 2x10 Vibrolux over all the other Fender models for some reason. I kept noticing that I preferred the 2x10 combo through the years and have always A/Bed my amps. I have had a great many blackface and silver face amps. They do all sound different but the one thing I always noticed is that I preferred the 2x10 confguration every time I did comparisons. Seems the 2x10 is just right for my ears. I thought the same thing in this comparison.
2 x 10 for me.. Right balance. Always love your riffs and enthusiasm johan
Thanks Paul! Great to hear that
Thank you. I have a 10” greenback in a cab. The cab hums, so I will build something new. I was going to put a second 10” in, but the difference isn’t enough for me to do it. Thank you again.
Each sounded good. 2x10 was probably best of the 3 to my ears. God bless and rock on 👍🎸😎
Rock on J!
I have a 4x10 cab with my 4x12. I love mine.
For a live situation the 4x10 is king but for recording a 1x10 works really well with an Sm57 close up. That design of speaker has left an mark on music and still has a lot to give. Rember how good any small Fender combo sounds with an Alnico 10". I had to use a Fender super champ for a while but it had an alnico blue speaker put in it (10"), it sounded better than a Princeton!!
Depends on the room. Something about standing in front of a 410 when playing is glorious. 112 or 210 is probably the most versatile if playing in a lot of different spaces. Also not hating on a 110:) I have trouble taming the bass with more than a single 12 unless the room is huge.
Yep that 2x10 had the sparkle and grunt and was my pick of the 3.
Thanks Steve
I think it's a matter of taste. Personally I prefer 2x10 but the cabinet in which the speakers are mounted is also important. I think different types of 2x10 cabinets will also sound way different.
I've never liked the sound of 1x10, but 10's sound great when they start to multiply. 2x10 is plenty in an open-back cabinet. 4x10 is even better, and can even sound good with a closed back cab.
Of course, one changes their cab shape as well as the number of speakers. Interesting comparison though. I wonder what the differences would be if a 4x12 cab was set up for 1, 2, 3, and 4 speakers....seems like a lot of work! :)
Thanks! I some of that in these videos
th-cam.com/video/Aba8WaCz_Dg/w-d-xo.html
th-cam.com/video/YrHiU72i2UY/w-d-xo.html
th-cam.com/video/wDN5tMjaq6A/w-d-xo.html
Cheers
Hi, Johan!
The little ine, Marshall, is my work horse, so I am not so much sad about it.. But in the comparison: they all were on rhe same level, Fenders are well known. Well, this is it! See you!
Siegfried
Thanks man
I like the 1 x 10 a bit above the other two. Sounds sweet and kind of honest. I play into a 1 x 12 and not in a band context, so that's probably why it appeals.
Hey Johan, thank you so much for this channel! I am learning so much about all the things I've ever wondered about Marshalls & cabinets
The 2x10 sounded really good, thanks for the video ! Now i know what i will put in the little cabinet i'm about to build as a gift to one of the best amps i have in my "home" "studio" ;)
The Marshall 1965 410 cabinet Celestion G10L 35’s gets dark too. so this is very revealing comparison. and the 1965’s are far and few between in the States
First off, great pic with that guitar and tone for this demonstration. You can clearly hear the difference with a strat clean tone. I also expected them to be more different. 'll never look down on a 1x10 amp again. Really impressive tones with that speaker cab and the room mics. Makes sense though. All the Nashville guys love a princeton in the studio. I have to grab a couple of those eminence speakers. One thought I still wonder about is how would the single 10" cab compare to a closed back 4x10 with the room mics.
Awesome! It would have been interesting to see 4x10 held against an appropriate 2x12.
Thanks! We can make a video of that too!
I prefer my 3x10 setup😂Fender Bandmaster brownface💪
Cool! Pete Townsend used 310 on who’s next
@@JohanSegeborn thanks Johan. Love your work👍
None are better than the other, just personal preference.I happen to like the 4/10, primarily because of the bigger lower mids. Single coils, to my ear, sound fantastic in the 4/10 cab. Thank you Johan, Cheers!
As you stated, not that big difference in tone. More growly bass with more speakers in the first riffs. The latter, brighter riffs got more "body" with more speakers. The 1x10 had a very distinct tone in all cases.
As usual, I guess preference would depend on circumstances. Very interesting comparison!
HI, great video as always
This is how I would use this 3 configs
1/10 for brighter / solowing, 2/10 for cleanish or solo guitar no other instruments
4/10 for distorted gtrs or very terrible pickups without bass or something
Thanks Ferran!
Hey Johan thanks for your work, as awesome as always
Hi Johan, maybe you covered this? But if you are changing speaker number this of course changes impedance. Depending how the negative feedback is connected to the transformer this could change the interactivity with the negative feedback. This in turn could create a huge difference in perceived top end and low end tightness, when changing impedance. Ie 2ohm load will equate to a squish and presence. A 16ohm load will tighten and darken the amp. I guess the only way of really knowing the changes would be to remove negative feedback completely
love me a 4x10 cab with a 50watt head... well really a pair of them is even better lol, I'm old now though so I have to be happy with a 2x10 combo and a 1x12 combo... still 50watts though, the half stacks have so much thump though, focused biting low ends
You could have used 8 ohm speakers in the 4x10 by wiring them series/parallel to get 8ohm total
That’s indeed correct. I only have two 8 ohms though :-)
Another interesting video. In this case, I'm with the majority here and think the 2x10's sounded the best and most balanced. The 1x10 sounded a little thin and the 4x10 sounded a little muffled. Of course, this is all relatively speaking. You seem to really like the SV20H!
My ears preferred the 1x10. Cheers. 🤙
Cheers Cian!
Thanks for the comparison Johan, but please do think about your back when you play!
Thanks Joey! Yeah Ergonomics is not my strong suit
Should have been recorded further away for more collective speaker and room sound, those changes we hear could be due just to the cabinets and construction.
I notice that the 1X10 is much more bright and trebly by itself but when you add more Speakers you get a fuller bandwidth and the 4X10's ad much more depth and Low mids and still retains the highs. I like the 4X10's much better!!
Love this channel Johan, you are doing god's work, Cheers Mate!
Great video as usual!
I know this is a bit off topic... Years ago I usually played 2 Fender Pro Reverbs from '68 and '71 (2×12" each) in parallel. At some point I connected one to a Crate 3×10" cab. The 12s sounded better clean but the 10s had a nice breakup. I didn't get this sound with a single 10 nor with 2×10s.
I always forget how much effect the speakers have and how different they sound… time to experiment some more!
With clean sounds 4x10 is the best for my ears
Very good test and interesting results. I wonder how the sound differences would be if the mic was placed 6 feet away from the cab to capture the room sound. In the test shown here, the single speaker sounded more defined because the mic was pointing at "one" speaker, with no other sound waves to contend with. And the 4 speaker cab, while pointing at "one" speaker, you know the mic was picking up sound waves from the other three speakers. So, try the same test, micing from a distance to pick up the sound waves further from the cab. ?? I would also get the cabs up off the floor and re-run the test. I'll subcribe so I don't miss the follow up test. Thanks.
For recording purposes the 1x10 comes out ahead. The midrange is clearer and tighter. I would have a much easier job mixing the 1x10 than the 4x10. The more speakers that are added the more cluttered the midrange becomes & the extra low mids just make it sound muddy for a band context. However, the 2x10 is still quite clear sounding and would work great too. In the room though it's probably much better with the 4x10.
I think the 410 would sit well with Jazz bass with both pickups on full. Maybe it would collide with the lower mids of a P-bass though. Cheers
@@JohanSegeborn Yeah there is always a context that works for anything. Despite what I said, you might send me a song to mix w/ identical guitar parts recorded on all 3 cabs and in that particular song the 4x10 just works whereas the others don't. Every song is kind of a universe unto itself with its own unique physics & structure. So many of our theories about what works and what doesn't get completely upended once you are in the thick of things.
All sound good!
Thanks DMS!
could have been interesting to have the same test performed by simply progressively unloading the 4x10, in order to have basically same cab and same speakers, anyway, interesting as usual ;-)
Thanks Tomaso!
Oh great, I'm now going to have to get a 2x12 for my new Studio Classic mini rather than the 1x12 I was planning on - thanks for nothing!
;-)
😂🤣😅👍🎼🎵🎶
I prefer the 2x10" but my neighbours prefers my headphones 😬
Mesa 4x10 with 3 different speaker types.... 2-V10 celestions, 1- weber Amsterdam, & 1- Eminence Ram Rod...
Sublime..Amps? DST jtm45 clone... Fender Dual Showman 80 watt '1969' model. "Phaez" Trainreck clone 18 watt ("McCloud")....A 4x10 mixed speaker array is the tightest- most focused, balanced frequency response live guitar sound I've tried.. Funk, Metal, Country...Etc...... 25 years on gtr... 4x10 mixed cones all the way!
Johan this is as good a time as any to ask you to compare 4x cabinets as two couples of parallel speakers in series versus two couples of series speakers in parallel. The difference between series and parallel in 2X cabinets is pretty phenomenal.
Hi Billy! I’ve actually done that th-cam.com/video/LvAa2PTvalo/w-d-xo.html
@@JohanSegeborn thanks- but you arrived at 16 and 4 ohms there. In my suggestion you would be at 16 for both:
1. Two series couples at 32 ohms each, but total parallel for 16
2. Two parallel couples at 8 ohms each, but total series for 16
I am now sold on building a 2x10 cabinet for my home office. Thanks for the info. I noticed that it looks like you used a Marshall Lead 12 combo body for your 1x10 cab... seeing the missing head hurt me deeply (joking). I have one of those and it's a little trooper of an amp. Had it in the family since 1988. But, I understand. The old solid state amps were good for having shorts and other issues. I ham currently looking to get a Marshall Origin 50 (which you're using either the 20 or 50 there) for a main amplifier. I tried one of those out and was extremely impressed with their versatility.
Interesting most comments here liked the 2x10 the best when it sounds the worst to my ear by a lot. 4x10 sounded the best to me.
I hear a greater difference between the 1x10 vs the 2x10 compared to the 2x10 vs the 4x10. The 2x10 had a richer sound, but not much difference when played through a 4x10, so I'm going to put my money on a 2x10 as there really isn't that much volume difference but clearly a perceived richness compared to a 1x10. The 4x10 isn't really better, and seems like an extra cost that doesn't give you an increase in volume or quality as I originally imagined it would be.
The Buick straight 8 feels so unappreciated. As does the Ducati Elefant. But impulse responses seem to be giving tesla its moment...
😆👍
2 x 10. Mainly because that's where the tone became more beautiful. I think the 4 x 10 at high volume can sound pretty nice too.
Interesting, I thought they sounded completely different. The 4x10 sounded cleaner, distant, much more mid-scooped and a lot less top end. Almost sounded phasey vs the others. The 1x10 was very in your face in a good way, quite chime-y. The 2x10 had a huge bottom end and good mids, I think that was probably the best of the bunch in this case. I noticed the mic's all stayed in the same location even though presumably the speaker height off the ground is a bit different cab to cab. Think that made any difference here?
Thanks! Yeah the speakers I’m the 2x10 is a bit higher up than the others so it may have lost some top end from that
A Marshall 50 watt bass circuit sounds cool through a 4x10. Makes it sound more like a tweed Bassman.
A mix of all 3 would be NICE
I prefer the 2 10setting!☺️
2x10 sounds best... regains the low end and stays clear as well... best midrange as well...
I am building a cabinet, I was thinking about using the 10 inch speakers, but after listening to his similar video on 12 inch speakers. I think larger speaker makes a difference in all configurations.
The 2x10 sounds ideal to me for this exercise . But you are in a relatively small space. A gig in a big volume space would bring out the benefits of the 4x10.
Hmmmm ... it's definitely between the 2x12 and 4x12, but they each have little nuances that make me prefer one over the other for different reasons. I really don't think either of them could be considered a wrong choice.
Thanks Christopher!
*2x10 / 4x10. I'm too used to dealing with 12's. LOL
Nice!
10" were made to be used in pairs 😉
Thanks!
2 x 10 was my favorite
Nice comparison! I am thinking what about installing two different '10 speakers wich will complement eachother . Like Greenback and Creamback together for example.
ive been a 2x12 open back combo guy for many years. half n full stack is too much to haul n not needed on stage. as for bass im a single 15" combo guy. 8x10 cabs should be outlawed!🍻
I would love to hear the difference between a speaker that's new and old. People say speakers need to be broke in , is that true ?
Yes. As you play them they sweeten up and loose some of their 'hardness'.
Yeah, but it only takes about 60 hours of playing loud. After that it’s downhill
Mats Frånlund has a great video on speaker burn in
Probably cab size and construction had more to do with the sound differences. Out of the 3, I preferred what came from the Fender 2x10.
"Last word" of an electric guitar sound is the Cab
and the mics and preamps you use.
When is this guy gonna do a podcast? I can listen to him BS all day.
Any thoughts on a valco 18 watt 2 x 10”(4ohm single winding) combo cab? It currently has 2 x 60’s Jensen C10R’s. I think they are worn out as I’m hearing some speaker rub. I like a Jupiter 10SC from a shootout I heard and not sure of weather to go with 2 of them or pair with a 70’s horseshoe Eminence. It’s a bit “boxy” sounding and it could be hooked up wrong as I hear one speaker way more than the other. Illusion, out of phase or just plain weaker side of the cab. Need to investigate. It’s how it came but that doesn’t mean it’s correctly hooked up and it is pushing 60 years. Found a great pair of RCA 6973 black plates that really brought it some life. I know that these valc circuits can sound a bit boxy but I just have a feeling I’m missing out on some frequencies.
Wish you would have used a guitar with humbuckers as well as single coils. 410 gets my vote.
The 1x10 and 2x10 sounded very similar, but the 4x10 was drastically different. I think I prefer 1 or 2 10's over 4.
Any chance at doing a DSL20C/1922 vs 1936 / SVC212/1965 shootout? I'd love to see how the cab/ext holds against all in a box.
I’ll keep it in mind. Planning on comparing SV212 to model 1972 tomorrow
You really have to try a Marshall 1965B with G10L-35 in it. :) My favorite cab so far. : )
Two Ten... Really Great..Dear Johan..You have boldly Ventured in to a Title..even Sound Eng.Say comments on low ebb..ITs out of your..Great Trials..creating Authenticity,,Thank you..DrNanda .I find If ONE needs String Tone to Speak .as .in a.Lead Play 1/10..Great..If One Wants..Noodling with Triads..Or..say Rhythm..i.feel 2/10..Great..But..can we House such changes in ONE HOUSING..May be I''sound Stupid..YET.I.wait for Dear Johan to Guide me ..Thanks
Thanks! Yeah the theoretically optimal way to this would be to use an infinite baffle to avoid the influence of the housing
@@JohanSegeborn Thank you,,Johan..Keep safe.(.Keep Good Interval..IF not Harmonic Interval...atleast Major Interval),,,With Love...DrNanda...India
2 x10 closed back gibson cab and 2 x 12 closed back marshall together
The 2x10" was the most balanced. Maybe the 4x10" had sounded different with the same 8 Ohm speakers, but in series / paralell.
Thanks! Yeah the 4x10 was significantly different from the others so that’s a possibility.
I always use 2 4x12 cabs
I see some older fender cabs had a dividing bit of wood inside, i suppose it was to stop this effect?
2x10 here!!
what having bigger speakers and then smaller sized ones like say a few 10s or 12s and then something smaller. does the speaker size itself sends lower or higher frequencies based in its diaphragm and cone sizes?
After watching this, I think I want a 2x10 instead of a 1x12 I was thinking of making. I like 10s and I already have one 10" Celestion Greenback. I was thinking of matching it with a 10" WGS Green Beret. Think this is a good combo?
How did it turn out- what speakers did you use?
Ya need to try a 15” 12” 10” simultaneously in a cab
You would need a custom baffle for that. Idk anyone making that otherwise.