I worked at Apple during the System 7 years. It was EASY! Actually dealing with System 7 was WAY easier than dealing with any version of Windows from that time. WAY easier. Trust me. I dealt with both. I was a Sys Admin for 500 people in a mixed Mac and Windows environment. Fixing Macs was so easy. Fixing PCs was a crapshoot. Networking was easy with Macs. If you had the original disks it would have been easy to do this install. And you could boot these machines from external hard drives. I carried an external SCSI drive around with partitions that had the correct System Enabler for various systems. It was easy. You couldn’t even imagine doing this on a PC. Getting around the Classic Mac OS was easy too, especially if it was the OS you learned on. Despite System Enablers being confusing if you weren’t used to them, System 7.1.2 was a really good OS. Managing System Extensions was key and it was easy to get into the System and make changes. It ran really well on a 69040, (especially the Quadra 650 and 840AVs). Although snazzier, System 7.5 had PowerPC code in it, and it contained the extremely flawed Mac TCP control panel which actually didn’t work. The PPC 601 CPU did benchmark faster than the 68040, with the RISC architecture performing many Photoshop commands in fewer cycles, but it felt sluggish. A Quadra 840AV felt faster than a PPC 6100. Even a 68930 with a FPU felt snappy. Anyway, I can understand how classic Mac OS might seem difficult to get around and maintain but actually it was exactly the opposite. It was a lot easier being an IT Admin back then compared to now. No command line. Just drag and drop. You just had to know your System Enablers, startup keystrokes (which really haven’t changed much), and which Extensions tended to cause problems. You had several Control Panels that didn’t belong in this machine. Most apps behaved well enough that not having memory protection wasn’t a huge issue. Those problems started around the time of System 7.5 when developers started relying on extensions to modify the system too much. The Classic Mac OS kernel was actually pretty fast, and combined with apps that relied on the Mac Toolbox, the experience was fairly seamless. Yes, it crashed more than OS X. But it was easy to repair. You could boot System 7 with a CD or an external drive for admin work. It was Windows that made you want to shoot yourself. Btw, the control strip was originally a third party add on, like Window Shade. It was folded into System 7.5. The Suitcase nonsense was mainly a System 6 thing. Only fonts sometimes needed a suitcase (a way of bringing items into the system). By System 7, most everything was drag and drop. Multitasking was generally seamless (although it wasn’t true preemptive multitasking).
I remember pouring my hot coffee on the logic board of a flatbed like that while it was running at my high school's tech lab (my first class of the morning) and it threw up the sad Mac like a mobo but was better a day or two later couldn't kill the fugger.
***** OH for sure, but if you look back at the news, one of the administrators (stitch) stated that WinBoards was going to go - and I really agree with him on that.
Macs with ROM SIMM slots are possible. The SE/30 has one, as do the IIx, IIfx, IIcx, IIci, and IIsi. Some early 475/605 models also had such slots, though with a different pinout. Because of course it would have to be incompatible. :P And yes, it's weird. But it really happened. And your 475 is probably one of the ones that has a ROM SIMM slot, and you are going to need to either find an original one or find one of the weird homebrew substitutes that may be floating around out there, if it's compatible. The original purpose of the slot was to make it easy to change ROMs from the so-called 'dirty' ROMs to the '32-bit clean' ROMs that would allow full usage of the 32-bit memory addressing capabilities of the later 68k processors. Macs with dirty ROMs could only use 16MB of memory because they had legacy code in the firmware that dated back to the days of using the original 68000, that only had a 24-bit address bus, and would use the upper 8 bits of the still internally 32-bit-wide address registers as storage. Also... 51:28, "Zoiks! Scoob!" ;)
I know this reply is for a post over 3 years old, but I just wanted to point out that the 475 he showed in this video does not actually have the ROM slot installed. You can see the solder pads for it between the VRAM slots and the on-board RAM.
@@evknucklehead I just didn't know the layout of the board all that well and figured the empty SIMM slot next to the power supply visible at 3:09 was a ROM SIMM slot. Also, three years ago I didn't really know that Ian's 'schtick' was to do absolutely zero research on anything before making a video. 🤣
Actually, these old macs are y2k compliant. When you type 16 in the year, it treats it as 2016. Also, in the info for the app, there is a memory partition setting.
I remember in 1999 Apple had ads specifically saying they were y2k compliant. Current 32 bit Macs that are using the unix based OS X may have a problem in the 2030s once the unix dates run out,
Just to add to confusion... my first Mac as a kid was an LC II - but inside a Performa 475 case, but clearly labelled 'LC II' on the front. Apple was tripping balls in the early 90s... well, most of the 90s.
+MattExzy Also, System 7 was actually decent for its day. Transferring files back-and-forth to Windows machines using built-in software was like "woah, how did you do that...''. Recording sound out of the box. 256 colours. Built-in networking. Drag-and-drop program installs. It all seems so quaint and archaic now, but it was well ahead of Windows 3. But it was pretty damn cobbled together, and there was echoes of its code all the way through Mac OS 8 to 9.
+MattExzy Oh, and the 'memory partition' thing if I remember right.. you select the app in the finder, file, 'get info' and up the memory allocation.. archaism abounds.
+Kiyoshi Kirishima Yes! I remember the LCII came with 4MB of RAM... man, I remember running KidPix on it flawlessly and the typing program I learned to type with. Prince of Persia to me at the time was epic. Anything else though, and it would thrash the hard drive rather violently.
These were low-end machines in their day, but they were still interesting and well-built. If you open one up, you will notice that absolutely everything inside the machine is held in with plastic snaps; there are NO screws holding the components in. This makes it easy to replace components - no tools necessary. I got two recently. One seemed to have a dead PSU, but the other booted fine after having been stored away for around 15 years.
I might be totally off base here, but I think you could use a "Get Info" command under the File menu while the application is selected and adjust the memory allocation for the application. It's been a long time but it's neat to see System 7 again. My first Mac was an LC II and I've been a Mac user since.
+Jeremy Mitchell Looks like MattExzy beat me to the punch on the memory allocation advice. Druaga1 - KidPix and AfterDark videos would be way cool! On my (er...Mom's) old LC II, I had an audio card installed in the PDS slot. It think it was called PAS 16 (Pro Audio Spectrum?) It had a breakout box full of RCA audio connectors, but the poor machine was so slow it could barely handle MIDI and Opcode EZ Vision let alone audio. I had it maxed out with 10 MB RAM, and later used that RAM to upgrade my Emu rack-mount sampler, along with a Zip drive. Good times.
+Jeremy Mitchell This is right. Click on an app and Get Info (command+i), there will be a box on the lower right with three choices. Suggested size: The size the developer recommends which you can't change. Minimum size: The absolute minimum memory you wish to allocate for the app (never change this, even though you can) Preferred size: The amount of RAM you want the app to run in. Don't set this too high, and never over the physical RAM installed in the Mac In Space Madness' case, it might be running in its maximum RAM size and hitting the ceiling on the LC (it probably needs 6MB to run well). You can turn on virtual memory but that will only reduce this a little bit. VM is no substitute for real RAM.
Classic Mac OS actually allows you to let individual applications specify how much system memory they use. Just do a get info on the app icon and let it have more memory. :)
I used Macs in the early 90's for Print Production. We used programs like Pagemaker, Illustrator, and Photoshop on Mac IICi's. Getting a new piece of Mac Hardware in the 1990's was an amazing experience because of the leaps in speed and functionality. Seeing smooth full motion video on a computer for the first time was a jaw-dropping experience. (1998, Mac Beige G3, the video was the "Phantom Menace" trailer that I spent half the day downloading from the apple website on a 56k modem.)
I have a performa 475 and there should be a vram stick in the slot in 2:18 (white one) The performa has no on board vram and when it doesnt have some installed it just boots to a black screen.
I think the squeal is the coil windings in the transformer, or the caps. You could desolder and replace. Please don't throw it away. It's a thing of beauty and I would cry. It's well worth the restore for historic value. I used System 7 a lot, and 7.5.8 was my favourite OS prior to the release of BeOS. (OS/2 2.4 rocked my world a good bit too) I spent most of my time on Amiga OS 2.5 / 3.1, but that was the hardware & software combination, and truth be told, I'd still rather be using System 7.5. If only there were as many, or as good games for Mac as there were for Amiga, that would have made them worth the additional cost. With a Double-Scan monitor, the Amiga ran productivity software as well for less money, and the OS was still pretty swanky, especially Amiga DOS scripting, multi-tasking and commodities exchange. But native 256 colour icons and the ease of use of System 7 can't really be beaten by anything at the time.
Back in the day, Prince of Persia was the big game being passed around at the office. One of my co-workers only had enough memory to play the B&W version and wanted to play the colour version. The manual stated that removing items from the System and Startup folders would increase the amount of free memory available to the program. She ended up dragging nearly everything out of the System folder which, of course, rendered the system unbootable. The head of the computer section spent about half a day reloading all the software on the machine. It was a Performa 400 as I recall.
Was actually a great machine in the day. Get the matching 12" Apple Monochrome display with it. '030 was kind of a joke processor at the time but the '040 replaced it with some serious 'AltiVec' power. The enablers were just machine-specific files that plugged into the OS for each machine's hardware. Chips, devices, etc. Apple later abandoned the idea.
The problem with the LC 475 is likely a dead PRAM battery. It's a known problem with the LC series. Plug it all in, turn it on, observe the no video condition, turn it off and right back on and it should come on. If it does, drop a few dollars on a new lithium 1/2 AA PRAM battery and swap it in.
The LC III was my first ever Mac :-) The ROM on these macs are soldered to the motherboard - the empty SIMM slot on the LC 475 is for extra system RAM, It has 4 MB soldered to the board so it should boot up as is. the two extra RAM slots in the LC475 is VRAM, I think you can swap a stick to the LC III and get thousands of colors haha woo!
Oh and I just finished the video - On the classic Mac OS, each app has individual memory allocation settings. if you get info on the app icon, there are minimum and suggested memory amounts - bump it up 500k to a megabyte from the current settings and your game should run no problem at all. Shouldn't need any virtual memory either :-)
“All of these models are very confusing”, yeah, kind of the problem. Retailers didn’t know how to differentiate them, buyers didn’t know which one to ask for. Sometimes they barely varied and just had a different model number so each retailer could claim exclusivity, or the lowest price, on a particular model. It was a confusing mess for everyone involved, at the time. A big part of Steve Jobs pulling Apple out of its death spiral when he came back was in simplifying the product line. Everyone’s aware of his four product matrix: consumer, pro, desktop, portable. While there were a bunch of subtly different models in each quadrant, it was always clear which quadrant they belonged in. Apple under Jean-Louis Gassee and Gil Amelio had this jumbled spectrum of products where it was entirely unclear which quadrant each computer belonged in.
The Mac LCIII was the first computer I ever purchased. When you bought it new, unpacked it, it just worked. I also came with System 7.1 on floppy discs if you ever needed to reinstall the OS. It worked very well. I reinstalled the OS just to see what the process was and it went very smoothly since Apple supplied everything I needed in the box. The LCIII I owned was probably the most trouble-free computer I ever owned. It never did not work the way it was supposed to. I used it for a few years and then my father used it for for another few years and it never failed. The only reason I replaced it was to get something with DOS and Windows since I needed that for computer classes. You make it look confusing, but it was the easiest computer to operate and maintain. I upgraded the memory and the hard drive and it just worked. I have not owned a Mac since, but only because once I needed an IBM compatible, it was easier and cheaper to buy and upgrade those computers than Macs.
The memory partition can be set by using "Get info" on the application icon or at least it seems it used to be like that... but maybe I'm totally remembering wrong :D
The LCIII was THE BOMB for me as I had one through middle school and in my 20s, I got it to run BSD Linux. This was after I found out it was a performa under the hood.... Nice vid, man!
Fascinating and helpful seeing these videos as someone who picked up a Performa 467 (predecessor to your 475) at a thrift store by chance a few years ago. I know very little to nothing about these systems. I do intend to play around with it once I get ADB peripherals or a wombat for it. These old macintoshes are so interesting.
Performa 475 was my first ever computer. I remember wanting to upgrade the RAM but because of a fire or a flood (can't remember) at an Asian manufacturing plant on the 90s the cost was through the roof due to the worldwide shortage. Was over £700 for the RAM upgrade. I mostly used Photoshop, Illustrator and Quark XPress along with something called "Ram Doubler" that stole a portion of your hard drive space. Main pain in the butt was extension conflicts.
Our school had a fleet of imacs and assorted 68k macs from the early 1990s leading into the early 2000s. Moving files between then was absolutely fine.
I wonder if that whining sound could be coil wine from the power supply. I've been lucky enough to not have heard coil wine before, so I couldn't really identify it. The change in frequency during boot would probably be due a change in the amount of current being pulled by the Mac.
Another hilarious vintage hardware adventure! Love it :) p.s. I used to use LC II models a lot back in the days, and those were really slow with OS 7.1
I loved the opportunity to use Macs of this era. I grew up using computers of the VIC-20 era, and when we got 16-bit computer and the choice was DOS 3 or System 7, and DOS could run Word 3 for DOS or Wordstar and SuperCalc or Lotus 123, while the Mac would run Aldus Pagemaker, Adobe Photoshop and Quark Express. Which would you have chosen?.. On the other hand, the DOS machine cost £500, and the Mac cost £1,200, and the DOS machine would happily run at 25-66Mhz while the Mac would run between 12-20Mhz... : \ The PC was definitely the better _computer_, but the Mac was clearly the winning _OS_.
I tried a live CD of red star OS on my 1995 Pentium 100 and it ran..and I made a version of the soviet national anthem in it's music software and it detected my absolute junk sb pro half ass crap tastic sound card wtf...is this what they are using in DPRK or what?! But it ran and worked and was usable...on a very old PC...this is impressive!
it actually RAN on such an old system...picked up the hardware even the CRAP sound galaxy hell card and WORKS...and runs in 16 bit color...what the heck...DPRK you did some magic here...This should not have worked but it does haha and from a CD...wtf very crazy and a bit awesome!
that install process was how I thought computers operated... each enabler was for a different version of Mac OS that was the CD key so to say... doing all that stuff made Linux feel easy and windows a pain in the neck
When the after dark fractal screensaver came on it scared the living crap out of me. I thought either my screen or that screen was having some sort of seizure.
***** Im taliking about the performa he showed in the beginning of the video that he said didnt work. and yes, it looks to be missing the rom simm. But the lc III probably does deserve more ram, lol
+mike52787 Might be able to flash a ROM for it. I've seen people like Lukemorse1 and arcade forum posters do that with PCBs, and I've also seen 68kmla posters do that to mod Mac II ROMs.
The whining sound your LCIII is making sounds a lot like my LCII when I unplugged the speakers while System 6 was running. It decided not to work again and just give me random patterns on the screen. I made a video about it called Macintosh Reliability or something like that if you want to compare it. Sounds like it is indeed coming from the internal speaker on mine, at least.
wow, this was a blast from the past. Our first computers at school were the LCII. The form factor (pizza box) is exactly the same. Thanks for the video dude.
To save space, the Disk Tools install and Minimum Software Install leaves out some color icons for the Finder, I believe folder color (light periwinkle?) and color Finder logo in the upper right? Probably some other smaller things as well. As others mentioned, Get Info on the application and increase the RAM maybe by 1MB (1024k) or so. Leave 32-bit addressing on, maybe turn Virtual Memory off? Love all these videos, I had a IIgs, Iici, Performa 630CD(!), G4 'digital audio', PowerComputing Mac clone, PowerBook G4, and 2 generations of MacBook Pros now. Watching you revive these old Macs has me looking into SCSI to SATA for SSDing the IIci muwhahaha
I used to go to a school back in 2008, i was like....4 or 5. they had kid pix onthe computers, they shut down the school for grades 3 and up so i moved. i would have liked to continue to learn about computers. Now, in 6th grade i was finally taught the parts of a computer... which i had known for years!
My LC III wouldn't work with System Enabler 003 on the install disk UNLESS I used an original Apple install disk. Maxing out the RAM really sped it up. The power supply uses a bunch of oddball value capacitors.
So there are 3 different 68k processor shapes and 2 different case materials. There is the original 6800 in a pinkish shell that is used in the original pre 512k launch Macintosh 128k and there is the plastic shell that is the exact the same and is used in the post 512k launch 128k and the 128k and the Sega Genesis model 1. There is the smaller square 68k,the 68030 that is used in the Macintosh Plus and later Classic Mac models,and the Genesis 2 and 3. And there is that giant-ass 68k that is used until the switch to PowerPC came in 1994.
Also old Macs just check if a system folder exists on all media (HDD going last and Floppy going first) and attemps to boot from it. No fancy Master Boot Record trickeroo going on here.
The sound you hear is from a coil, that is build into the power supply, which is a switch mode power supply, switching at a low audible frequency, like your 9-10kHz :)
You can adjust the "memory partition' (not sure why the game's dialog box calls it that. :P ) in the File Info dialog box for the game's application file. Just go to the game folder, find the application, then select it, then go to File -> Get Info (either via the menu bar or the Command + i key combo). There should be a "Memory Requirements" section near the bottom right of the info box. The minimum size and preferred size can be set here. I don't believe this was a thing in System 6. Don't recall. But it's definitely a thing in System 7. :D Odd that the game's default settings for this is too low. Someone messed up when setting up that installer I guess. The resulting application must have it's preferred or min size set too low. Changing memory settings in the Memory control panel won't help much if the memory settings in the Get Info dialog for the application is messed up. :P The high pitch noise coming from speaker means the motherboard has leaking capacitors. A known issue with most LC machines and SE/30s and other macs from that era. The Macintosh SE and older aren't have this issue as badly. Mostly just the analog board caps crapping out in those. But yeah you definitely need to get the caps replaced in that motherboard. Speaker noise is the least of your problems. At some point that thing won't turn on anymore. (oh and if the PRAM battery is dead, remove it. Those can start leaking and the damage those do to motherboards can be even worse then what leaking caps can do. They are ticking time bombs. Remove any dead PRAM batteries any of your old Macintosh'es may still have) Also, you should think about getting a SCSI zip drive + a USB version for your main computer. For me, I have a SCSI and a Printer port version. I use my Win98 laptop to transfer files to my Macintosh SE via these disks. Installed system 7.1.2 on it that way and didn't have to deal with the floppy disk crap. :D It was almost as good as having a CD drive and generally you'll have a much easier time finding these for a reasonable price on eBay then old Apple SCSI external CD drives. The few times those pop up, sellers be trying to price gouge them. One of these days I should get a USB Zip drive so I can just skip the Win98 laptop and use my main Win7 PC for this stuff. Or perhaps even my eMac (yes eMac. The last CRT based all-in-ones Apple made. They are G4 Power PC machines and mine has the last version of MacOS X that can run on it) would be a good candidate for using a zip drive. :P
Prohably mentioned 1905279102759 times but you can increase a particular application's memory share through the command-i (get info) menu. That's probably what you need to do here.
That whine - it could be old capacitors about to die, leak and corrode your motherboard. If you haven't replaced them yet you should.... oh and make a video of it :)
IIcx was rare and short lived. Good working ones are worth a lot on eBay. You can set an app's memory partition by doing Get Info on an app or control panel.
Sir... about the question on how people was able to use pre MacOS X systems... At the time using MacOS was just as easy or even more so then win9x... and about software availability? well there was no problem getting software for it.
Your system would crash and you'd have to install the OS off of floppies. After a few hours of that you could start installing your programs again. It was a nightmare back then. What was great back then was desktop publishing and printing. The games were great on Mac back then and lots of free ones. We also started to get online with AOL and began to use CD-rom drives.
Mainly, I'd print school papers, play games, and go online for a few hours a week. No quality photoshop or video tools back then. It was hard to even transfer files due to frequent disk errors on both floppies and hard disks. CD roms started to give more reliability
Love your videos; I'll send you a Sonnet Technologies SATA PCI card if you experiment with putting an SSD in a 64/6500! It says right on the box that the card is compatible with those machines and the card is bootable from what I've read. I am just too busy doing tile/grout/flooring all day to do it myself.
If my username was a downloadable game for any OS, It would troll all the little kids that try to use their mommy/daddy/brother/sister/aunt/uncle/grandpa/grandma's PC.
![กี่หมื่นฟ้า | Your Sky Series EP.1 [1/4]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/vLGjxFL6U_I/mqdefault.jpg)
Love that "Sorry" button.
Why
@Seth James we don’t care, you’re right
*Has differential equations homework due at midnight and circuits test in the morning*
*Clicks hour long video*
Since its 7 years later I imagined you finished your degree in Mathematics. So can you help me with Calculus 2 thanks
@bobhope1160 it was an engineering degree, but unfortunately, since its been 7 years I'm quite rusty
"It restarts faster than the sun"
-Druaga1 - 2016
LOL Hahaha!!
I forgot I even replied to this...
Well done, memory!
If the sun restarted I think we would have massive problems on our hands
@GewoonLeon if it has an IBM archive tape drive we're all fucked twice over
@Hexagon 100 yeah lol
I worked at Apple during the System 7 years. It was EASY! Actually dealing with System 7 was WAY easier than dealing with any version of Windows from that time. WAY easier. Trust me. I dealt with both. I was a Sys Admin for 500 people in a mixed Mac and Windows environment. Fixing Macs was so easy. Fixing PCs was a crapshoot. Networking was easy with Macs. If you had the original disks it would have been easy to do this install. And you could boot these machines from external hard drives. I carried an external SCSI drive around with partitions that had the correct System Enabler for various systems. It was easy. You couldn’t even imagine doing this on a PC. Getting around the Classic Mac OS was easy too, especially if it was the OS you learned on. Despite System Enablers being confusing if you weren’t used to them, System 7.1.2 was a really good OS. Managing System Extensions was key and it was easy to get into the System and make changes. It ran really well on a 69040, (especially the Quadra 650 and 840AVs). Although snazzier, System 7.5 had PowerPC code in it, and it contained the extremely flawed Mac TCP control panel which actually didn’t work. The PPC 601 CPU did benchmark faster than the 68040, with the RISC architecture performing many Photoshop commands in fewer cycles, but it felt sluggish. A Quadra 840AV felt faster than a PPC 6100. Even a 68930 with a FPU felt snappy. Anyway, I can understand how classic Mac OS might seem difficult to get around and maintain but actually it was exactly the opposite. It was a lot easier being an IT Admin back then compared to now. No command line. Just drag and drop. You just had to know your System Enablers, startup keystrokes (which really haven’t changed much), and which Extensions tended to cause problems. You had several Control Panels that didn’t belong in this machine. Most apps behaved well enough that not having memory protection wasn’t a huge issue. Those problems started around the time of System 7.5 when developers started relying on extensions to modify the system too much. The Classic Mac OS kernel was actually pretty fast, and combined with apps that relied on the Mac Toolbox, the experience was fairly seamless. Yes, it crashed more than OS X. But it was easy to repair. You could boot System 7 with a CD or an external drive for admin work. It was Windows that made you want to shoot yourself. Btw, the control strip was originally a third party add on, like Window Shade. It was folded into System 7.5. The Suitcase nonsense was mainly a System 6 thing. Only fonts sometimes needed a suitcase (a way of bringing items into the system). By System 7, most everything was drag and drop. Multitasking was generally seamless (although it wasn’t true preemptive multitasking).
I remember pouring my hot coffee on the logic board of a flatbed like that while it was running at my high school's tech lab (my first class of the morning) and it threw up the sad Mac like a mobo but was better a day or two later couldn't kill the fugger.
MoFo*
Ah yes electronics that can't die. A friend of mine resurrected a motherboard 4 times with the oven method. Still have that board and it still works.
The noise from 17:28-17:35 would make a great startup chime for a car.
Now put an SSD in this bad boy.
You could probably get a SCSI compact flash or SD adapter for it, actually. People do it with old Amigas and such.
+CMWAidan x - Creative Mind Works: Aidan EY I know that place.
Fuck stitch and ibmpc5150, what assholes.
***** I'd prefer them not to be promoted... If there was one thing I'd have to agree with Stitch on, it's that WinBoards has got to go.
***** The WinWorld PC Library, maybe, but WinBoards has *got* to go.
***** OH for sure, but if you look back at the news, one of the administrators (stitch) stated that WinBoards was going to go - and I really agree with him on that.
Macs with ROM SIMM slots are possible. The SE/30 has one, as do the IIx, IIfx, IIcx, IIci, and IIsi. Some early 475/605 models also had such slots, though with a different pinout. Because of course it would have to be incompatible. :P
And yes, it's weird. But it really happened. And your 475 is probably one of the ones that has a ROM SIMM slot, and you are going to need to either find an original one or find one of the weird homebrew substitutes that may be floating around out there, if it's compatible. The original purpose of the slot was to make it easy to change ROMs from the so-called 'dirty' ROMs to the '32-bit clean' ROMs that would allow full usage of the 32-bit memory addressing capabilities of the later 68k processors.
Macs with dirty ROMs could only use 16MB of memory because they had legacy code in the firmware that dated back to the days of using the original 68000, that only had a 24-bit address bus, and would use the upper 8 bits of the still internally 32-bit-wide address registers as storage.
Also... 51:28, "Zoiks! Scoob!" ;)
I know this reply is for a post over 3 years old, but I just wanted to point out that the 475 he showed in this video does not actually have the ROM slot installed. You can see the solder pads for it between the VRAM slots and the on-board RAM.
@@evknucklehead I just didn't know the layout of the board all that well and figured the empty SIMM slot next to the power supply visible at 3:09 was a ROM SIMM slot.
Also, three years ago I didn't really know that Ian's 'schtick' was to do absolutely zero research on anything before making a video. 🤣
Actually, these old macs are y2k compliant. When you type 16 in the year, it treats it as 2016. Also, in the info for the app, there is a memory partition setting.
Does it say 2016 though, or just 16?
It does have 20xx as thr 4-digit year, yes. It did on my Quadra 630, and that's a 68k machine from '94.
I remember in 1999 Apple had ads specifically saying they were y2k compliant. Current 32 bit Macs that are using the unix based OS X may have a problem in the 2030s once the unix dates run out,
My mac can't go past 2020
Just to add to confusion... my first Mac as a kid was an LC II - but inside a Performa 475 case, but clearly labelled 'LC II' on the front. Apple was tripping balls in the early 90s... well, most of the 90s.
+MattExzy Also, System 7 was actually decent for its day. Transferring files back-and-forth to Windows machines using built-in software was like "woah, how did you do that...''. Recording sound out of the box. 256 colours. Built-in networking. Drag-and-drop program installs. It all seems so quaint and archaic now, but it was well ahead of Windows 3. But it was pretty damn cobbled together, and there was echoes of its code all the way through Mac OS 8 to 9.
+MattExzy Oh, and the 'memory partition' thing if I remember right.. you select the app in the finder, file, 'get info' and up the memory allocation.. archaism abounds.
+MattExzy This is correct, this should work.
+MattExzy If you had a machine with limited memory (and we all did) that box was the difference between being able to run a program or not!
+Kiyoshi Kirishima Yes! I remember the LCII came with 4MB of RAM... man, I remember running KidPix on it flawlessly and the typing program I learned to type with. Prince of Persia to me at the time was epic. Anything else though, and it would thrash the hard drive rather violently.
These were low-end machines in their day, but they were still interesting and well-built. If you open one up, you will notice that absolutely everything inside the machine is held in with plastic snaps; there are NO screws holding the components in. This makes it easy to replace components - no tools necessary. I got two recently. One seemed to have a dead PSU, but the other booted fine after having been stored away for around 15 years.
I might be totally off base here, but I think you could use a "Get Info" command under the File menu while the application is selected and adjust the memory allocation for the application. It's been a long time but it's neat to see System 7 again. My first Mac was an LC II and I've been a Mac user since.
+Jeremy Mitchell Looks like MattExzy beat me to the punch on the memory allocation advice.
Druaga1 - KidPix and AfterDark videos would be way cool!
On my (er...Mom's) old LC II, I had an audio card installed in the PDS slot. It think it was called PAS 16 (Pro Audio Spectrum?) It had a breakout box full of RCA audio connectors, but the poor machine was so slow it could barely handle MIDI and Opcode EZ Vision let alone audio. I had it maxed out with 10 MB RAM, and later used that RAM to upgrade my Emu rack-mount sampler, along with a Zip drive. Good times.
+Jeremy Mitchell This is right. Click on an app and Get Info (command+i), there will be a box on the lower right with three choices.
Suggested size: The size the developer recommends which you can't change.
Minimum size: The absolute minimum memory you wish to allocate for the app (never change this, even though you can)
Preferred size: The amount of RAM you want the app to run in. Don't set this too high, and never over the physical RAM installed in the Mac
In Space Madness' case, it might be running in its maximum RAM size and hitting the ceiling on the LC (it probably needs 6MB to run well). You can turn on virtual memory but that will only reduce this a little bit. VM is no substitute for real RAM.
Classic Mac OS actually allows you to let individual applications specify how much system memory they use. Just do a get info on the app icon and let it have more memory. :)
I used Macs in the early 90's for Print Production. We used programs like Pagemaker, Illustrator, and Photoshop on Mac IICi's. Getting a new piece of Mac Hardware in the 1990's was an amazing experience because of the leaps in speed and functionality. Seeing smooth full motion video on a computer for the first time was a jaw-dropping experience. (1998, Mac Beige G3, the video was the "Phantom Menace" trailer that I spent half the day downloading from the apple website on a 56k modem.)
I have a performa 475 and there should be a vram stick in the slot in 2:18 (white one)
The performa has no on board vram and when it doesnt have some installed it just boots to a black screen.
definitely enjoy your longer uploads
+Stevie G I listen to them while I draw, and his voice is funny and nice to hear over a long period of time. It's almost therapeutic in a sense.
+Fluttershy Pony i gotta agree, it actually, and VISIBLY helps me concentrate on my programming
andyphil666 Glad to know I'm not the only one listening to these kinds of videos while I work or do something productive
Expert Troller From A Present Awww, drawing computers is the best
+Fluttershy Pony You're my fav pony.
I do have to say I love the design of this Macintosh
mike mac agreed. I also love the way you can take it apart without any screws
I think the squeal is the coil windings in the transformer, or the caps. You could desolder and replace.
Please don't throw it away. It's a thing of beauty and I would cry. It's well worth the restore for historic value. I used System 7 a lot, and 7.5.8 was my favourite OS prior to the release of BeOS. (OS/2 2.4 rocked my world a good bit too) I spent most of my time on Amiga OS 2.5 / 3.1, but that was the hardware & software combination, and truth be told, I'd still rather be using System 7.5. If only there were as many, or as good games for Mac as there were for Amiga, that would have made them worth the additional cost. With a Double-Scan monitor, the Amiga ran productivity software as well for less money, and the OS was still pretty swanky, especially Amiga DOS scripting, multi-tasking and commodities exchange. But native 256 colour icons and the ease of use of System 7 can't really be beaten by anything at the time.
the length of your videos almost certainly drain my phone battery.
Try watching on a computer instead of a crappy little phone.
Hunter's Moon
I watch it in a plugged in iPad
The whining sound is because of bad capacitors. See if you can get the board's capacitors changed.
Back in the day, Prince of Persia was the big game being passed around at the office. One of my co-workers only had enough memory to play the B&W version and wanted to play the colour version. The manual stated that removing items from the System and Startup folders would increase the amount of free memory available to the program. She ended up dragging nearly everything out of the System folder which, of course, rendered the system unbootable. The head of the computer section spent about half a day reloading all the software on the machine. It was a Performa 400 as I recall.
Was actually a great machine in the day. Get the matching 12" Apple Monochrome display with it. '030 was kind of a joke processor at the time but the '040 replaced it with some serious 'AltiVec' power. The enablers were just machine-specific files that plugged into the OS for each machine's hardware. Chips, devices, etc. Apple later abandoned the idea.
The problem with the LC 475 is likely a dead PRAM battery. It's a known problem with the LC series. Plug it all in, turn it on, observe the no video condition, turn it off and right back on and it should come on. If it does, drop a few dollars on a new lithium 1/2 AA PRAM battery and swap it in.
Agree! I've had the same experience with an LC.
Put a SSD in it.
Don't worry about making long videos, Druaga. I love these long and detailed videos, and they're long enough for me to fall asleep to.
The LC III was my first ever Mac :-)
The ROM on these macs are soldered to the motherboard - the empty SIMM slot on the LC 475 is for extra system RAM, It has 4 MB soldered to the board so it should boot up as is. the two extra RAM slots in the LC475 is VRAM, I think you can swap a stick to the LC III and get thousands of colors haha woo!
Oh and I just finished the video - On the classic Mac OS, each app has individual memory allocation settings. if you get info on the app icon, there are minimum and suggested memory amounts - bump it up 500k to a megabyte from the current settings and your game should run no problem at all. Shouldn't need any virtual memory either :-)
“All of these models are very confusing”, yeah, kind of the problem. Retailers didn’t know how to differentiate them, buyers didn’t know which one to ask for. Sometimes they barely varied and just had a different model number so each retailer could claim exclusivity, or the lowest price, on a particular model. It was a confusing mess for everyone involved, at the time. A big part of Steve Jobs pulling Apple out of its death spiral when he came back was in simplifying the product line. Everyone’s aware of his four product matrix: consumer, pro, desktop, portable. While there were a bunch of subtly different models in each quadrant, it was always clear which quadrant they belonged in. Apple under Jean-Louis Gassee and Gil Amelio had this jumbled spectrum of products where it was entirely unclear which quadrant each computer belonged in.
9:18 someone should sample that sound and use it as a dubstep drop
wow, i had one of them. wish i hadn't scrapped it...
The caps need replacing on the LC3
The Mac LCIII was the first computer I ever purchased. When you bought it new, unpacked it, it just worked. I also came with System 7.1 on floppy discs if you ever needed to reinstall the OS. It worked very well. I reinstalled the OS just to see what the process was and it went very smoothly since Apple supplied everything I needed in the box. The LCIII I owned was probably the most trouble-free computer I ever owned. It never did not work the way it was supposed to. I used it for a few years and then my father used it for for another few years and it never failed. The only reason I replaced it was to get something with DOS and Windows since I needed that for computer classes. You make it look confusing, but it was the easiest computer to operate and maintain. I upgraded the memory and the hard drive and it just worked. I have not owned a Mac since, but only because once I needed an IBM compatible, it was easier and cheaper to buy and upgrade those computers than Macs.
The memory partition can be set by using "Get info" on the application icon or at least it seems it used to be like that... but maybe I'm totally remembering wrong :D
The LCIII was THE BOMB for me as I had one through middle school and in my 20s, I got it to run BSD Linux. This was after I found out it was a performa under the hood.... Nice vid, man!
Fascinating and helpful seeing these videos as someone who picked up a Performa 467 (predecessor to your 475) at a thrift store by chance a few years ago. I know very little to nothing about these systems. I do intend to play around with it once I get ADB peripherals or a wombat for it. These old macintoshes are so interesting.
These long videos have become the background theme for me attempting to repair broken hi-fi equipment.
Performa 475 was my first ever computer. I remember wanting to upgrade the RAM but because of a fire or a flood (can't remember) at an Asian manufacturing plant on the 90s the cost was through the roof due to the worldwide shortage. Was over £700 for the RAM upgrade.
I mostly used Photoshop, Illustrator and Quark XPress along with something called "Ram Doubler" that stole a portion of your hard drive space. Main pain in the butt was extension conflicts.
Our school had a fleet of imacs and assorted 68k macs from the early 1990s leading into the early 2000s. Moving files between then was absolutely fine.
I wonder if that whining sound could be coil wine from the power supply. I've been lucky enough to not have heard coil wine before, so I couldn't really identify it. The change in frequency during boot would probably be due a change in the amount of current being pulled by the Mac.
"Click on the background and let it sing!" Hahaha
You want to talk about a slow processor? The computer I'm working on now has a processor with a max speed of 2Mhz
Another hilarious vintage hardware adventure!
Love it :)
p.s. I used to use LC II models a lot back in the days, and those were really slow with OS 7.1
35:29 thats faster than my brand new quad core laptop boots!
I loved the opportunity to use Macs of this era. I grew up using computers of the VIC-20 era, and when we got 16-bit computer and the choice was DOS 3 or System 7, and DOS could run Word 3 for DOS or Wordstar and SuperCalc or Lotus 123, while the Mac would run Aldus Pagemaker, Adobe Photoshop and Quark Express.
Which would you have chosen?..
On the other hand, the DOS machine cost £500, and the Mac cost £1,200, and the DOS machine would happily run at 25-66Mhz while the Mac would run between 12-20Mhz... : \ The PC was definitely the better _computer_, but the Mac was clearly the winning _OS_.
you are silly and fun to watch. I enjoyed every minute thanks for uploading.
I tried a live CD of red star OS on my 1995 Pentium 100 and it ran..and I made a version of the soviet national anthem in it's music software and it detected my absolute junk sb pro half ass crap tastic sound card wtf...is this what they are using in DPRK or what?! But it ran and worked and was usable...on a very old PC...this is impressive!
it actually RAN on such an old system...picked up the hardware even the CRAP sound galaxy hell card and WORKS...and runs in 16 bit color...what the heck...DPRK you did some magic here...This should not have worked but it does haha and from a CD...wtf very crazy and a bit awesome!
reminds me of my Jr high school days
that install process was how I thought computers operated... each enabler was for a different version of Mac OS that was the CD key so to say... doing all that stuff made Linux feel easy and windows a pain in the neck
When the after dark fractal screensaver came on it scared the living crap out of me. I thought either my screen or that screen was having some sort of seizure.
That preforma doesnt boot because it is missing the rom simm. not ram, rom. good luck finding one!
***** Im taliking about the performa he showed in the beginning of the video that he said didnt work. and yes, it looks to be missing the rom simm. But the lc III probably does deserve more ram, lol
+mike52787 Its not a simm. Its a bunch of chips.
+mike52787 Might be able to flash a ROM for it. I've seen people like Lukemorse1 and arcade forum posters do that with PCBs, and I've also seen 68kmla posters do that to mod Mac II ROMs.
+mike52787 Also I doubt it uses a ROM SIMM, considering how "Integrated" the pizzaboxes were. I know the LC III and II don't use SIMMs.
/home/gligar13 haha the only experience with vintage macs I have is with a se. Excuse my ignorance lmao
The whining sound your LCIII is making sounds a lot like my LCII when I unplugged the speakers while System 6 was running. It decided not to work again and just give me random patterns on the screen. I made a video about it called Macintosh Reliability or something like that if you want to compare it. Sounds like it is indeed coming from the internal speaker on mine, at least.
Bad capacitors maybe?
Even though the frequency is filtered,it still makes my head feel like its about to explode like a nuke.
Yes we survived fine with it. I used to be a Mac OS 9 developer. It was a kludge OS but its major flaw was that it had no real multiprocessing.
wow, this was a blast from the past. Our first computers at school were the LCII. The form factor (pizza box) is exactly the same. Thanks for the video dude.
+James Hanson you should try and get a copy of oids; its a wick old skool game. I had plenty of fun with it in the past.
To save space, the Disk Tools install and Minimum Software Install leaves out some color icons for the Finder, I believe folder color (light periwinkle?) and color Finder logo in the upper right? Probably some other smaller things as well. As others mentioned, Get Info on the application and increase the RAM maybe by 1MB (1024k) or so. Leave 32-bit addressing on, maybe turn Virtual Memory off?
Love all these videos, I had a IIgs, Iici, Performa 630CD(!), G4 'digital audio', PowerComputing Mac clone, PowerBook G4, and 2 generations of MacBook Pros now. Watching you revive these old Macs has me looking into SCSI to SATA for SSDing the IIci muwhahaha
This guys has enough macs to build an awesome blanket fort
That Mac is doing the computer equivalent of rod knock and you're just flooring it lol
Ah yes the computers I used at school, plus the later all in one LC 520s. Good times playing Bolo and Marathon.
The Performa/LC 475/Quadra 605 will power up to a black screen and appear dead if the PRAM battery is dead. Caught me out back in the day.
leaking caps can cause the speaker to make noise like that. I have a mint LC iii but with no os :(
get a floppy disk adapter for your pc, install mac os on floppy and insert in a macintosh and Bam! installed
did you get it running??
@@fargeeks No, I still have it, just no install disks
it is definitely smaller than a compact that I used in high school way back in the day
That floppy drive noise is heaven, what you on about ;o)
I remember it!
When I got my LC it came bundled with the personal LaserWriter LS..
Man those are beautiful floppy disks!
Thanks for the video, nice to see some older Macs.
My buddy’s family had one of these while we were in middle school. We used to play Civ 1 on it.
I used to go to a school back in 2008, i was like....4 or 5. they had kid pix onthe computers, they shut down the school for grades 3 and up so i moved. i would have liked to continue to learn about computers. Now, in 6th grade i was finally taught the parts of a computer... which i had known for years!
That floppy drive sound though. If any of my old world macs actually still worked, I'd record it for TH-cam myself...
well, i still have MB's that support floppy"s, and i have drives too
so i can do it all day long!
The Arcane Brony The diskette drives in these old Macintosh systems sound a lot nicer than old PC drives, or at least the 3.5 ones do.
true :/AIO inc.
i love your channel!! this is the first channel i was ever subbed to!
My LC III wouldn't work with System Enabler 003 on the install disk UNLESS I used an original Apple install disk.
Maxing out the RAM really sped it up. The power supply uses a bunch of oddball value capacitors.
I go to sleep to these videos... For some reason I find them very soothing.
Aethleid plays same
yeah, honestly same.
Same. Although at the same time I really want to watch the whole video...
you've got a crush on druaga. Go for him, he's a good boy.
Wigged out on coffee, cleaning up my room, listening to druaga banter in the bg.
I LOVE the LCIII
Throw a SSD at it and see what happens =D
I also used these in 3rd grade for Kid Pix. And Grolier's Multimedia Encylopedia. And At Ease. And ClarisWorks.
And "Mouse Practice"
Ahh, memories! had an LC-II, IIsi, and a SE-30!
What you said about model-specific macOS is just like how ipadOS has device-specific features, ie. the keyboard is slightly modified on the iPad Pro.
I've got an LCII that doesn't work, and I don't have a mouse for it either. I used to have a Performa 475 as well.
Will you make a separate version with the 9khz / 8khz / whatever frequency? I actually want that ._. i know im weird
So there are 3 different 68k processor shapes and 2 different case materials. There is the original 6800 in a pinkish shell that is used in the original pre 512k launch Macintosh 128k and there is the plastic shell that is the exact the same and is used in the post 512k launch 128k and the 128k and the Sega Genesis model 1. There is the smaller square 68k,the 68030 that is used in the Macintosh Plus and later Classic Mac models,and the Genesis 2 and 3. And there is that giant-ass 68k that is used until the switch to PowerPC came in 1994.
Also old Macs just check if a system folder exists on all media (HDD going last and Floppy going first) and attemps to boot from it. No fancy Master Boot Record trickeroo going on here.
I'm a pilot and I always love watching your videos while flying. I have my own plane.
3 years later but weird flex
Why do I find these videos so entertaining?
The sound you hear is from a coil, that is build into the power supply, which is a switch mode power supply, switching at a low audible frequency, like your 9-10kHz :)
Aww, the mac that I got my key chain from >< That mac looked like it was struck by lightning. So toasty.
You can adjust the "memory partition' (not sure why the game's dialog box calls it that. :P ) in the File Info dialog box for the game's application file. Just go to the game folder, find the application, then select it, then go to File -> Get Info (either via the menu bar or the Command + i key combo). There should be a "Memory Requirements" section near the bottom right of the info box. The minimum size and preferred size can be set here. I don't believe this was a thing in System 6. Don't recall. But it's definitely a thing in System 7. :D
Odd that the game's default settings for this is too low. Someone messed up when setting up that installer I guess. The resulting application must have it's preferred or min size set too low. Changing memory settings in the Memory control panel won't help much if the memory settings in the Get Info dialog for the application is messed up. :P
The high pitch noise coming from speaker means the motherboard has leaking capacitors. A known issue with most LC machines and SE/30s and other macs from that era. The Macintosh SE and older aren't have this issue as badly. Mostly just the analog board caps crapping out in those. But yeah you definitely need to get the caps replaced in that motherboard. Speaker noise is the least of your problems. At some point that thing won't turn on anymore. (oh and if the PRAM battery is dead, remove it. Those can start leaking and the damage those do to motherboards can be even worse then what leaking caps can do. They are ticking time bombs. Remove any dead PRAM batteries any of your old Macintosh'es may still have)
Also, you should think about getting a SCSI zip drive + a USB version for your main computer. For me, I have a SCSI and a Printer port version. I use my Win98 laptop to transfer files to my Macintosh SE via these disks. Installed system 7.1.2 on it that way and didn't have to deal with the floppy disk crap. :D
It was almost as good as having a CD drive and generally you'll have a much easier time finding these for a reasonable price on eBay then old Apple SCSI external CD drives. The few times those pop up, sellers be trying to price gouge them.
One of these days I should get a USB Zip drive so I can just skip the Win98 laptop and use my main Win7 PC for this stuff. Or perhaps even my eMac (yes eMac. The last CRT based all-in-ones Apple made. They are G4 Power PC machines and mine has the last version of MacOS X that can run on it) would be a good candidate for using a zip drive. :P
Subbed, You do some odd and interesting experiments with hardware :)
That’s what druaga is!
that sound at the beginning sounds like coil whine
They predicted LBP 3 with the Changelings! O MA GAD!
Prohably mentioned 1905279102759 times but you can increase a particular application's memory share through the command-i (get info) menu. That's probably what you need to do here.
Enjoying these longer uploads
I had on of these when I was teen I started working computers from here
OMG I remember Space Madness! Great game! I don't think memory was the problem though.
That whine - it could be old capacitors about to die, leak and corrode your motherboard. If you haven't replaced them yet you should.... oh and make a video of it :)
It’s been a year but: Send it to akbkuku
IIcx was rare and short lived. Good working ones are worth a lot on eBay. You can set an app's memory partition by doing Get Info on an app or control panel.
Sir... about the question on how people was able to use pre MacOS X systems... At the time using MacOS was just as easy or even more so then win9x... and about software availability? well there was no problem getting software for it.
Select the space madness icon, command + I to get info. you will see memory allocation options for that application.
Your system would crash and you'd have to install the OS off of floppies. After a few hours of that you could start installing your programs again. It was a nightmare back then. What was great back then was desktop publishing and printing. The games were great on Mac back then and lots of free ones. We also started to get online with AOL and began to use CD-rom drives.
Mainly, I'd print school papers, play games, and go online for a few hours a week. No quality photoshop or video tools back then. It was hard to even transfer files due to frequent disk errors on both floppies and hard disks. CD roms started to give more reliability
There were plenty of applications for this computer at the time. MS Word, Claris, Excel and more.
Love your videos; I'll send you a Sonnet Technologies SATA PCI card if you experiment with putting an SSD in a 64/6500! It says right on the box that the card is compatible with those machines and the card is bootable from what I've read. I am just too busy doing tile/grout/flooring all day to do it myself.
If my username was a downloadable game for any OS,
It would troll all the little kids that try to use their mommy/daddy/brother/sister/aunt/uncle/grandpa/grandma's PC.
My childhood gaming PC right here
"daaaaamn get on my level ssd" best line ever
the only channel that produces good tech videos...