The History of Race In The Assemblies of God: With Anthony Scoma
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 8 ก.ย. 2024
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Would you guys consider doing a church of God in Christ history video with someone from COGIC?
Thanks for another great interview. The lesson that should not be missed here is the impact the culture has on the Church if we allow the culture to influence Biblical doctrine.
The people of the previous times are victims of the cultural influence.
The scriptures and the SPIRIT of CHRIST should be our drive.
Your sounding a little better than yesterday. Hope you're feeling better. God Bless.
This episode was far more interesting than I expected it to be! I shouldn't have doubted you guys, lol. Thanks for the great content as always and praying Josh recovers quickly from the effects of the 'rona.
Am I the only person that was bothered at all by the "white repentance" portion at the beginning of the program, and the reccommendation of James Cone's Black liberation theology? Black liberation theology end sup teaching another gospel where the gospel is supposedly about changing social structures and whatnot, NOT focused on the redemption of individual souls. And this constant focus on race in the American church is unbibilical, because Jesus brought about racial reconciliation with His sacrifice for all. He reconciles us to the Father, to Himself, and to one another (no male, no female, no Jew, no Greek, no slave, no free) and that reconciliation can be found only in the person of Jesus Christ.
Nope… you are not the only one.
what a wonderful informative interview
God will hold us accountable for our own sins not for my mothers or anybody else’s least of al history or collective sin.
I find it fascinating how people talk about american historical slavery yet overlook the issues of slavery today, the apartheid of Native American tribes in American history and their current oppression of today. Why is this not discussed?
If we want to move on today, if there is to be a healing, there must be a move towards the restoration of today's living.
As a survivor of CSA, it would make no sense to me to give reparations to a woman or to say I am privileged because of my body. I was not responsible for how I was born nor the abuse.
Sadly, there was some issues missed in this discussion such as the basic fact that the driving force behind this is the structure of making it a race issue while trying to create healing. The female church planter was spot on. Basic human decency. Plan and simple. Begin there and then direct the conversation.
Please consider interviewing Black pastors or teachers on this topic. While this was fascinating and informative, I would like to hear about somethings from a black perspective.
Absolutely
Yes very much so
So much information, very interesting episode
No offence meant but this brother's AG history regarding race is a bit sketchy.
I've found if you want to know about this subject in depth Dr. Cecil Mel Robeck and Dr. Bernie Wade are the real go to guys!
They differ on their take on Charles Parham, but between the two of them you'll get the unfortunately sometimes really ugly history of racism amongst the Holiness/Apostolic/Pentecostal movement pre and post Azusa St.
This made me think about the multi theological aspect of Charismatic churches, certain sacred tenets of faith not withstanding. In many "non denominational " Charsimatic churches there are people from all various denominations, each person bringing with them a spiritual experience unique to their denomination. You have people from AoG,CoGiC,CoG,Apostolic-Pentecostal, Evangelicals,Calvinist,Armenian, etc. There is also racial diversity when a Charismatic Chuch is in a racially diverse community/ city.
Very cool and great content. I appreciate this discussion. Pentecostals should absolutely understand this . I agree coming from the Pentecostal movement though I am now apart of a Lutheran Piety Reformed leaning denomination love these discussions as my family has been in the holiness and Pentecostal movement since 1880's
. I go to a church were we talk and minister about what some call social justice from a Biblical worldview. Pentecostals had many divisions .
I was in the the Church of God of Prophecy and Assembly of God and independent Pentecostal church's. The issues that took place in the Assembly of God took place in many circles.
North Texas district also has a black man in charge of their Royal Rangers department as of 2023.
I have the Asuza Papers book too
Hi, I actually am a Pentecostal Christian. I was saved by Jesus when I was 16. I was raised as a nominal Buddhist but it never took root. Anyhow, I got water baptized when I was 17. When I was 19 or 20, I got baptized in the Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking in tongues. Then, when I was 30, for about two years, I tried to obtain my bachelor degree through Bethany University and took around 6 classes. Then I had to pause due to health conditions. Then, I heard, unfortunately, they closed down. What a small world in the kingdom of God! God bless! 🙏🏽😀-Jeralynn Kawewong Kozak
Anthony Scoma. I like that guy 👌 He might be tempting me to consider AGTS...
You all should get together with Samuel Sey. He was recently interviewed on Alisa Childers podcast on issues of race, abortion, and critical race theory. It was an excellent episode! I think he may currently be on hiatus, but he has a lot of excellent insight on issues of systemic racism and CRT!
You know pastor Robert wise he was in leadership as well
What do you guys think about Dr. James Cone that he mentioned? Could you do an interview with someone on James Cone and black liberation theology?
prepare a table in the presence of my enemies. Yeh that's the kind of table i want to sit at. this is ganna grow great a table of my enemies.
I have truly enjoyed listening to you brothers in speaking the truth here, but may I just say, that as a 78 year old black expat American living there in Sweden. I was actually raised first in "the Church of God in christ" and later in the "Apostolic faith" demonination and much later in "the Assemlies of God" first of all, I think we must all acknowledge that America is a white country, a land that was Qnquered with God's blessing just as Israel conquered the lands which God gave to her. Secondly I think its very naive for you gentleman to assume that in the 1900's America was anything but racist from sea to shining sea. I know from my great grand fathers who experienced racism in the Assemblies of God. that was always the sitution, as there never was unity so-called. It is very signficant how that God chose to first give the gift of the Holy Spirit to some black girls in Topeka Kansas and then more than a year later to brother Seymore's ministry at Azuza Street in Los Angeles, California.
Do you think Southern Baptists and Penecostals didn't attend the GALAS during which they picnicd and some took sheers and snipped off burnt black man's fingers to take home as souveniers? yes they did. we heard all about it from our relatives who was there. The truth is, the spirit-filled churches were always segregated from the start.
I experieenced the same white racism in the Assemblies of God church when I was a preacher in that church.
Only through much suffering have some black peiple come to have true spiritual discerment to know that racism is of the flesh. what do you imagine black folks would say if I asked them if any of your white gentelmen were still racist? If I were to asked them if they trusted any of you? I'm sorry, they would say "No!"
The Europeans conquering and decimating of America and its people had no biblical mandate.
Thank you for sharing your story brother. It’s difficult to hear, but necessary. I am so sorry you experienced that. I have no idea how the body of Christ has ever allowed this segregation and separation to happen. It’s so against what the Lord has called us to do. We are meant to love each other, bear one another’s burdens and together lift up the name of Jesus Christ. It makes me sick and sad. What do we do? how do we reconcile? Can you imagine the power of the message of The gospel if the church would come together, repent and forgive one another? I pray Father help us, Father soften our hearts towards one another. Please accept my love dear brother. I pray the Lord blesses you.
The racial demographics of the church might inadvertently represent the demographics of the community? Usually in racially diverse communities, there is racial diversity in the church.
Hey Josh, why does Rowntree move his neck like that when he talks? 😂
Happy Thursday yall! I agree that it is helpful to have Brothers and Sisters in Christ from various backgrounds and heritage. Also, I would like to emphasize the power of having my white brothers and sisters renounce Old ways (patterns, thoughts, words,actions, deeds). It reminds me of the Apostle Paul, Jew of Jews who was the spear head for the Revolution of God in Jesus Christ. As a latino, sometimes it feels impossible at the bare minimum an uphill battle talking to Brothers and Sisters in the White community. We need White Brothers and Sisters, as Brothers Michael, Joshua and Anthony are showing us right now, to use their voice and their standing in their own community. There's things said by them that will carry to the heart and mind, that I as a Latino will not connect (for whatever the reason may be not important right now). Thank yall!!!!
Regarding the link back of Acts 2, with Gen. 11, and Babel:
1. Yes there is a link.
2. No, not as described, or close to such.
At -1.01:20 we have a reference to reversing the curse of Babel. No such curse exist. Rather then cursing, the Lord conducts a division into lots. A "nachal" into portions that are inherited variously as he determined. (Deut 32:8) This nuchal resulted in the sons of Adam, becoming individual inheritances of the Sons of God. Apparently, seventy in number, but not to include a later alteration where God claims an inheritance for himself, the seed of Abraham. Israel.
This nuchal (division) included a geographical "puwts". (something shattered-broken-spread abroad) And after this "puwtz" descends mankind, as we know it today.
Penticostals of all people, should know.... "the gifts and calling of God are without repentance." Calling of who? The Sons of God. Or as Paul describes, the powers of the air. As an inheritance, the nation's belong to the Sons of God to this time, and may not be taken away.
An inheritor retains ownership of an inheritance until they dispose of the inheritance. The Sons of God will not do this. This leaves death as the remaining vehicle by which an inheritence passes to an Estate. The issue here, is the Sons of God are immortal, and therefore don't die.
This has profound implications for the Church, both in this life, and the next. Not the least of which now, is Christian Nationalism. Any such effort towards a civil religion, would bring the Church under the sovereignty of the powers, and their Prince, the Satan. Of course racism would be amped up, as a minor side product.
Also wanted to add, we see in the New Testament how the Apostle Paul quoted and used the thinking of Greek Philosophers. Unfortunately I am sure some folks would think that is un-Godly to read or much worse quote a secular person. I forgot who said this but ALL truth is God's truth, regardless if it's found in the Church, in Greek Philosophy etc etc etc. All humans thus human culture will reflect the image of God. As one famous guy said, even a broken mirror will reflect some light. God's image, character, truth, even if it's a tiny shard is evident in ALL people groups. It's hard to defend the belief that the ONLY truth that exists is in the Bible. Yes, only in the Bible do we have specific clear revelation of how to be saved in Christ Jesus. Yes, there is very Dark ideas in secular philosophy just as there is dark philosophies IN the Church. The enemy will infiltrate anywhere and everywhere. Its, my personal opinion, naive to think that only truth can be found in the Church. As good evangelists, missionaries Ambassadors of Christ let us recognize the Truth in all cultures, because that Truth belongs to the living Triune God. Let's follow the example of the Apostle Paul, being humble enough to learn engage the cultures that we should love as servants of Christ Jesus.
Andre's. This is actually not correct that Paul quoted philosophy. This is a popular idea among the more intellectual, or faux intellectual segments of the Church. The idea we engage culture, with reason and relatable philosophy. What we think of as Apologetics. An easy example was Mars Hill Church. They saw themselves engaging culture.
If you read closely, Paul says poet, not philosopher. That poet is Aratus, d. 240 B.C. The quote is from a portion of Phaenonmena. This work was officially commissioned, and represents something like a catechism for the public. The patron was Antigonus, a contempary of Alexander the Great.
The work apparently is based on an earlier poem. Far from philosophers, these are astronomers and mathematicians. The subject is partly the Constelations. We call this today, the Zodiac. Or, it's earlier name, Mazzoroth.
A modern Evangelical would be shocked to hear this.
Of course the blacks are going to be left out. So sad, right! We have just as much right to the leadership in the AG because we started the movement.
I really like this guy! But tell me… how does he not get kicked out of Assemblies of God with some of the (funny-yet true) stuff he says🤣🤣
May we introduce Jesus to those who do not yet know Him.
Psalms 119:151
Thou art near, O LORD; and all thy commandments are truth.
Jesus is The Word, John 1:1-5
The Word God spoke: Exodus 20:1 (His Spirit)
The Word God wrote: Deuteronomy 4:13(His Covenant)
and The Word God made flesh John 1:14 (Jesus).
He is our example of The Trinity. He is The Law that hung on the cross and The Law that is written in the heart.
Psalms 40:7
Then said I, Lo, I come: in the volume of the book it is written of me
Hebrews 10:7
Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.
By "keeping" God's voice, Jesus' voice as directed in Deut.6:8-9 we are armed with the voice of God, the law and testimony that will help us through the coming days.
We do not work for our salvation, Jesus died and saved the world. But we can work for our protection from the plagues, those coming to steal, kill, and destroy, from deception, to keep a sound mind etc.,for life. There is nothing wrong with works for we are judged on our works. Faith without works is dead. Why would Jesus tell us to pray for workers, if no work is to be done? There is much wisdom in the O.T. just as there is in the N.T..
Our plea to all is to PUT ON LIFE. Let our faith work for us. Jesus, The Son is the seal of God, His Word, His Ten Commandments. He is your anointing, get in Christ. Remember, heart, mind and soul, not just the heart. Turn your faith into a verb and shine the Light. May we learn to 'live' by every Word of God with all that we are, heart, mind and soul. The armour of Light is found throughout the Scripture, this is only the beginning. Remember, all things are possible in Him.
Many who sit in pews can spread the gospel, if only they were told how to help their own families, friends and neighbours. To protect and give life to all we know and love. May we open our eyes and minds to accept Jesus as The Word. To spread The Word in both speech and in deed. May we all walk, dwell, and do all we do in Jesus. Don't let evil, the world, overtake our loved ones, our Nation. He will fight for us. He will unite His people. The Law can save us from much more, for He is our miracle worker. Jesus saved us from our sins and now that He is Spirit, our High Priest, and King He can do much more. Walk in Him. We don't need organized religion, we need The Word of God. We need obedience to God and the love of Jesus, our law and testimony.
Always use King James Version if possible. Not the N.K.J.V.. Stay away from any copyrighted Scriptures. We conquer our enemies, sin, and the world by coming together in our Lord Jesus Christ. Our peace is found "IN" Him. He in us, we in Him. Stand up and hold your ground. The en-grafted Word can save you and yours. Amour up and pray always.
First I wanna say that I love the content and the interview and the fact that you’re having these discussions. It needs to be done and not ignored...
Also, S/O to Josh! I was also born in 91’ and in the assemblies of God..
Here’s what I wanna point though..
In 16:34 - 17:24 of the video when he was reading the article where the racism was becoming repented of, these parts stood out to me and i want to talk about how it relates to today.
“The work began among colored people...”
“The first white woman. Was mrs. Evans...”
“God makes no difference in Nationality..”
In the same revival that was healing the racial divide was still upholding white supremacy. Even BEFORE the Parham and Seymour incident..
The “white woman” was separated and given a (name) - Mrs. Evans.. a name represents an identity. Where there are no names there is dehumanization knowingly or unknowingly..
The colored folk are all lumped together and “included” in the work as if to prove that reconciliation is happening. Yet no names are given and they are not viewed equal in the rhetoric itself.
“God makes no difference in Nationality..”
After all that, this was written. Sound familiar?
Our constitution?
The bible passages themselves that say are ethnicities are nothing for we are all one in Christ..EVERY life matters, etc...
Such rhetoric has been used where we have failed to “keep, maintain “ the unity. And such rhetoric is the excuse.
So I LOVE when you guys brought up that aspect earlier in the show.
AS WELL AS pointing out that Abraham Lincoln was a racist. Though he was responsible for ending slavery.
I hear much of this same rhetoric behind Trumpism and how BECAUSE he’s done certain things for the black community that means hes NOT racist..
Or when Sean Fuect(HoldTheLine) puts out articles to “prove” that his gatherings are diverse and yet at the same time call out Lecrae as if Lecrae supports abortion (He doesn’t) and never reach out to him personally..
And also be soo strong to oppose any rhetoric that came against Trump...
I hope I’m making this clear. Racism is not always a known indifference, or outward hate against someone of a different color. Its not always waving a confederate flag either..
Supremacy is woven into the fabric of the American church and the roots of this nation from the beginning. Its in the systems that effect everyone. Its in the rhetoric and the legislations. It’s not always overt.
I think we should spend more time asking our brothers and sisters of different color and background what “racism” means to them BEFORE we denounce racism and/or get offended and run from amy possible, helpful nuance.
Again, thanks for this and I appreciate it. Im just adding more nuance to this convo and I hope to see more interviews like this. 👊🏼👊🏼❤️💪🏼
Wait...Keener went to AGTS?
Yes and Central Bible College
@@medar1318 why? I mean I know it's a great school but was he in the Assemblies?
Yes
Really, beat the “ Tar “ , give that some thought