Yeah but unfortunately he probably isn't considered Influential enough for companies to care, but it would be neat if he or someone else made a stickied thread on Reddit and kept track of Buildzoid approved boards. Or even just a google doc.
the EVGA x299 Dark and "X470 Aorus Gaming 7 WiFi", would be the only ones with that "AHOC Certified VRM", due to them being the only ones with a "REAL HEATSINK(tm)", lol.
Yea, honestly wish motherboard vendors would make some collaborations with enthusiast overclockers like AHOC or Der Bauer. Like make a 125-200-275USD motherboard with them with focus on ACTUAL features...
ぬらりひよん鯉伴 why so serious, but really I'm so happy about this I was worried that vrm was cheaped out on using only 40amp phases me I has been known for that glad this was not the case.
15:42 Bullzord approves this VRM. MSI praises to the GODs were heared. That said I kinda have the impression Bullzoid, if he could, would like to rip it apart and make a external power-board out of it.
But Sriously why is every Video of you in 360p for the first 15 Minutes or so - i mean they not even visually that hard to transcode or something... -.-
Buildzoid you ripped on Asrock's pro 4 which is fine. But for balance you should do Gigabytes Ultra Gaming and Ultra Gaming 2.0 being sold for almost €200 and are fake 4 phases acting like 8 that reach 125 celcius with moderate OC.
i mean it does still have 8 phases worth of current capability which is better than last years FLAGSHIP the Ax370 gaming 7. The only reason it looks worse is because a 2700x pulls much more power than an 1800x. Ultragaming is fine as an entry level x470 and the x470 gaming 7 is an amazing flagship motherboard (5 sucks this year)
I'm pretty sure I've pointed out that gigabyte's VRM is a 4 phase and that it kinda sucks in the PCB:breakdown of the X470 Ultra Gaming board. Also gigabyte at the very least has working overtemperature portection so when the board overheats it will at least throttle or shut down.
They don't have a datasheet, but I was able to find some specifications and an efficiency curve for the (likely similar) TDA21470. It says "further portfolio available" so I think the TDA21472 is a chip in that series. Footprint and output current are the same. datasheet.octopart.com/TDA21470-Infineon-datasheet-62330070.pdf Basically, they say it compares favorably against an IR35411, especially at high current(example is a 5 phase, and goes up to 225W). Note that the IR35411 also has very little public data about it. at 94.125% efficiency at 43.6A, we would expect 700A to waste about 80W of heat {My calculation is 43.6*16*(1/.94125-1)*1.82} note that it's specced at 1.82V so for 1.8V it would be a little less. so buildzoid's calculations are very similar given the lack of available datasheets. Note that my calculation makes a LOT of assumptions. The graph assumes switching freq is 500kHz, Vin=12 Vout=1.82 and the quoted efficiency includes driver controller and inductor losses for a 5-phase measurement. The FDMF3170 that Buildzoid got his data from is a good datasheet, and has a lot of good info in it. I like OnSemi (fairchild) datasheets, even though their graphs look like they were made in Excel. I took the plot of output current vs power loss (vin =12V vout =1.8V fs=500khz) and at 43.6A the power is 78.48W, and the loss is about 6.675A, for an efficiency of around 91.5% and a power loss of around 116W {using this equation 43.6*16*(1/.9149-1)*1.8 } To compare, the end of the datasheet, they give an efficiency curve for typical application (vin=12 vout=1.8 fs=500kHz and 6-phase) but it only goes up to 200A, which is 33 A per stage. At this point it's speccd as 94% (and falling) but the efficiency calculation from the power loss graph gives a loss of 3.5W at 30A and 1.8V for an efficiency of 93.5% which is a little bit lower, but still very close, so the margin of error for this guestimation is quite good. So if we can trust the efficiency curve for the TDA21470, if the given application can be divided up on a per-phase basis for the purposes of quoting efficiency numbers, and if the TDA21472 is similar, then we can say that at 700W output, or 43.6A per stage, and an efficiency of 94.125% we can expect to waste 79.2W of heat at 1.82V. What do I want to show with this? well even going waaaay out of your way to try and make your guesses as good as you can, you still come out to very similar numbers as doing a more rough estimation. I was counting pixels on my screen for the graphs to interpolate the data I got. That said, above 94% efficiency at 43A is really quite excellent. Note: I'm still a student so my math and assumptions might be way off!
After watching much of your content, I feel good about the 2990WX + this board arriving tomorrow. I have never seen you approve any VRM setup on a board.
I just watched the review by OC3D TV of this board. And before I was considering ASrock Fatality Professional Gaming originally, later was looking at ASUS ZENITH EXTREME (but wanted to avoid it, because I do not like many of ASUS design decission). But now I am seriously thinking about this board. VRM design is excellent. 16 phases (8 with doublers) really help to bring all things together to work really nicely and keep it cool.
I have not been in the computer scene for many years. But, my computer is on its last leg and needs a replacement. I have been doing my homework on the latest solutions and I am very impressed with MSI, as a motherboard mfg. They seem to go that one step further than the rest of the MB mfg's. The X470 Pro Carbon also goes one step further.
Question Buildzoid, you say 960W from the 2x 8pins, but what about the 24pin? doesn't that give a whole lot of power too? some of that must go to the cpu too or what? else it seems a bit excessive to give that many connections (24) to "just the rest of the board" I know the PCI-E slots take some etc. but still? and in the olden days we didn't have 4/8 pins for the CPU but still had the huge plug (20 then later 24 pins)?
shoot.... watching overclocker on youtube using that mobo's to OC 2990WX w/LN2... that board is fine w/RAM heatspreader already freeze and how much that board power draw from wall ? 1030 Watt @5.398Mhz.. what a monster
Motherboards in 2018 throwing self-destruct and self-deprecating knobs onto top-end motherboards. I guess they figure if you wanna splurge on their boards, you'll splurge again next year when your stuff is running sluggish or just dies on you.
Really interesting breakdown. Looks like MSI made some quality product here. Do you know if the new Gigabyte X399 Xtreme MoBo is about on the same level as this? Keep it up!
So the VR uses a 8 phase controller with dumb phase doublers rather than using the Intersil active current sharing doublers. What do you see as the down side? Also, the effective number of phases as seen from the input caps is still 8 phases. Any benefit of it being a true 16 phase controller? Lastly, there are versions of those MOSFET power stages with exposed metal on top that helps improve heat sinking, but still need a insulating thermal pad since that metal is the switching node. Let me know. Thanks
For the zenith extreme the soc is 3 phases and asus ships heatsink for people who want to run TR2, so soc vrm should be ok. But the 8 phase vcore on the zenith is running very very very hot, and the 40mm fan that asus ships along the soc heatsink is not enough at all :/
Yea they should of ditched the meg (like literally everyone who gave pre release feedback said to) but I'm pretty sure it's because "the meg x399 creation" sounds a lot better than "the mega x399 creation"
With regards to names of motherboards, "designare" just means "designers" in Swedish. Given look of the board, including the weird font used, I think that's a rather apt name for the board. MEG on the other hand ... yeah, I've no idea.
well to be fair it's a 1gen TR board and a good one, but I'm not upgrading on till after x-mas and the 2950x the front runner for me and I´m a AMD user and I already have th10a so cooling is not a problem, but will it be monoblock Zenith or x399 MEG I rushed last time and got 1800x and with all of the new thing coming out I didn't is Threadripper coming at that time :(
I want asus's bios and pcie slots with this vrm and gigabytes x299 heatsinks :( What if you get the zenith extreme and run a waterblock on the vrm, does that make them about equal?
This is why we so badly need to have uefi emulators to validate software without the hardware. I got burned on my Asus board with shit bios, and now I'm reluctant to buy anything new without validation of the software no matter how good the hardware is.
Foxconn sockets seemed to have a design/manufacturing flaw that made them nearly impossible to thread in the screws properly. I can only hope they fixed that error by now but I haven't bothered to look. If they had made the thing correctly the first time then no one would have to think twice about sockets like that most of the time.
would be nice if VRMs came in slotted form like on some mini ITX boards. the top inch of this board is like $100 in an of itself in just VRMs and doublers and inductors. imagine using this on like an X470 or being able to re-use them
Wat? Designare is an awesome name. Go home, Buildzoid, you're drunk =P Also: Yeah, as a Zenith owner, I think for it it's pretty much watercool or go home for those VRMs if you want to OC the 2990WX on it. Either with a monoblock or the VRM block from Watercool
I need an *AHOC Certified VRM* badge on motherboard boxes
That's actually a decent idea. =)
Yeah but unfortunately he probably isn't considered Influential enough for companies to care, but it would be neat if he or someone else made a stickied thread on Reddit and kept track of Buildzoid approved boards. Or even just a google doc.
the EVGA x299 Dark and "X470 Aorus Gaming 7 WiFi", would be the only ones with that "AHOC Certified VRM", due to them being the only ones with a "REAL HEATSINK(tm)", lol.
He can put "seal of approval" on video thumbnail :)
Yea, honestly wish motherboard vendors would make some collaborations with enthusiast overclockers like AHOC or Der Bauer. Like make a 125-200-275USD motherboard with them with focus on ACTUAL features...
at least they didnt put "gaming" at the end of it
MEG=Mega Extreme Gaming
Doctor Unicorn Megalodon.
How is this guy not more popular? His breakdowns and knowledge are far beyond almost all other reviewers.
Someday my friend i will buy motherboards that have buildzoid certified vrm stickers on it.
It puts a smile on my phase
ぬらりひよん鯉伴 why so serious, but really I'm so happy about this I was worried that vrm was cheaped out on using only 40amp phases me I has been known for that glad this was not the case.
15:42 Bullzord approves this VRM. MSI praises to the GODs were heared. That said I kinda have the impression Bullzoid, if he could, would like to rip it apart and make a external power-board out of it.
yea well it's a $500 board and he could probably build it by buying separate parts
This motherboard looks insane and I love it
Kerstin true i plan to do a Watercooled build with it in the next 2 years, i just love the looks of it!
This VRM puts smile on my phase. - AHOC 2018
I saw a big boy motherboard and got very excited for this video!
Immediately subbed. Great to see complete and in depth analysis of hardware.
I do believe I'm first
Actually Hardcore Overclocking 2nd
Actually Hardcore Overclocking 3rd
I would have been first if i wanna do! ;)
But Sriously why is every Video of you in 360p for the first 15 Minutes or so - i mean they not even visually that hard to transcode or something... -.-
Love it, starts off video by saying "motherboard may have issues under LN2" LOL.
A year later this is still a great and useful video as I try to decide on an MB for a new HEDT workstation build.
I guess they meant Megalodon but it became Meg Griffin.
Motherboards names are becoming Gundams
MEG = Mobile Extreme Gundam
EKWB soooo needs to make a RGB monoblock for this mobo.
Buildzoid you ripped on Asrock's pro 4 which is fine. But for balance you should do Gigabytes Ultra Gaming and Ultra Gaming 2.0 being sold for almost €200 and are fake 4 phases acting like 8 that reach 125 celcius with moderate OC.
i mean it does still have 8 phases worth of current capability which is better than last years FLAGSHIP the Ax370 gaming 7. The only reason it looks worse is because a 2700x pulls much more power than an 1800x. Ultragaming is fine as an entry level x470 and the x470 gaming 7 is an amazing flagship motherboard (5 sucks this year)
I'm pretty sure I've pointed out that gigabyte's VRM is a 4 phase and that it kinda sucks in the PCB:breakdown of the X470 Ultra Gaming board. Also gigabyte at the very least has working overtemperature portection so when the board overheats it will at least throttle or shut down.
why is most AMD motherboards bad at
So this board's SoC VRM is actually better than some Vcore VRM on budget boards? Impressive!
I was just thinking that SOC VRM would probably do a better job than the Vcore VRM on my old Gigabyte 970 board!
Next up in MSI, DOUG X499 Creation.
They don't have a datasheet, but I was able to find some specifications and an efficiency curve for the (likely similar) TDA21470. It says "further portfolio available" so I think the TDA21472 is a chip in that series. Footprint and output current are the same.
datasheet.octopart.com/TDA21470-Infineon-datasheet-62330070.pdf
Basically, they say it compares favorably against an IR35411, especially at high current(example is a 5 phase, and goes up to 225W). Note that the IR35411 also has very little public data about it.
at 94.125% efficiency at 43.6A, we would expect 700A to waste about 80W of heat {My calculation is 43.6*16*(1/.94125-1)*1.82} note that it's specced at 1.82V so for 1.8V it would be a little less. so buildzoid's calculations are very similar given the lack of available datasheets. Note that my calculation makes a LOT of assumptions. The graph assumes switching freq is 500kHz, Vin=12 Vout=1.82 and the quoted efficiency includes driver controller and inductor losses for a 5-phase measurement.
The FDMF3170 that Buildzoid got his data from is a good datasheet, and has a lot of good info in it. I like OnSemi (fairchild) datasheets, even though their graphs look like they were made in Excel. I took the plot of output current vs power loss (vin =12V vout =1.8V fs=500khz) and at 43.6A the power is 78.48W, and the loss is about 6.675A, for an efficiency of around 91.5% and a power loss of around 116W {using this equation 43.6*16*(1/.9149-1)*1.8 } To compare, the end of the datasheet, they give an efficiency curve for typical application (vin=12 vout=1.8 fs=500kHz and 6-phase) but it only goes up to 200A, which is 33 A per stage. At this point it's speccd as 94% (and falling) but the efficiency calculation from the power loss graph gives a loss of 3.5W at 30A and 1.8V for an efficiency of 93.5% which is a little bit lower, but still very close, so the margin of error for this guestimation is quite good.
So if we can trust the efficiency curve for the TDA21470, if the given application can be divided up on a per-phase basis for the purposes of quoting efficiency numbers, and if the TDA21472 is similar, then we can say that at 700W output, or 43.6A per stage, and an efficiency of 94.125% we can expect to waste 79.2W of heat at 1.82V.
What do I want to show with this? well even going waaaay out of your way to try and make your guesses as good as you can, you still come out to very similar numbers as doing a more rough estimation. I was counting pixels on my screen for the graphs to interpolate the data I got. That said, above 94% efficiency at 43A is really quite excellent.
Note: I'm still a student so my math and assumptions might be way off!
Really enjoy your analysis.
Needed fins and 40mm fans as x299 evga dark pro
not really
This is borderline enterprise hardware.
After watching much of your content, I feel good about the 2990WX + this board arriving tomorrow. I have never seen you approve any VRM setup on a board.
This motherboard is actually hardcore overkill.
WTF! Not gonna lie, but the fact that this board comes with a freaking Spinal Tap reference built in is kinda awesome.
Alza won't loan you at least the 2950X?
I just watched the review by OC3D TV of this board. And before I was considering ASrock Fatality Professional Gaming originally, later was looking at ASUS ZENITH EXTREME (but wanted to avoid it, because I do not like many of ASUS design decission). But now I am seriously thinking about this board. VRM design is excellent. 16 phases (8 with doublers) really help to bring all things together to work really nicely and keep it cool.
There is a product brief for a TDA21470: datasheet.octopart.com/TDA21470-Infineon-datasheet-62330070.pdf which is also a 70A power stage
😍 yay X58 & X79 ftw! 😍
Great breakdown!
3:30 "The one that puts a smile on my PHASE" XD
WOW Is in Love with this VRM !! May be you can turn this MB into a welder !
I have not been in the computer scene for many years. But, my computer is on its last leg and needs a replacement. I have been doing my homework on the latest solutions and I am very impressed with MSI, as a motherboard mfg. They seem to go that one step further than the rest of the MB mfg's. The X470 Pro Carbon also goes one step further.
Awesome as usual! I hope you do one for the X399M Taichi! Interested to see if it'll be a good board for a micro atx build!
I would say that MEG means Msi Extreme Gaming, but I could be wrong lol
I can only hit the thumbs up button so hard
Im.a.tea.addict He doesnt want to go to a smartphone repair store.
Gamers Nexus wanted to fly you out to their office to produce content. If they should do that please do OC for the HEDT CPUs they have. All of them.
Could you maybe take a look at the ASRock Fatal1ty B450/X470 Gaming-ITX/ac? It has a new heatsink compared to the ASRock B350/X370 ITX.
X399 Creation makes sense if this is supposed to be a workstation board for artists in digital media. Idk wtf “Meg” is about.
Question Buildzoid, you say 960W from the 2x 8pins, but what about the 24pin? doesn't that give a whole lot of power too? some of that must go to the cpu too or what? else it seems a bit excessive to give that many connections (24) to "just the rest of the board" I know the PCI-E slots take some etc. but still? and in the olden days we didn't have 4/8 pins for the CPU but still had the huge plug (20 then later 24 pins)?
shoot.... watching overclocker on youtube using that mobo's to OC 2990WX w/LN2... that board is fine w/RAM heatspreader already freeze and how much that board power draw from wall ? 1030 Watt @5.398Mhz.. what a monster
I don't get why E-ATX isn't the standard size for TR4 MoBo's. Probably still wouldn't have enough space to fully saturate PCIe though!
According to www.anandtech.com/show/13124/the-amd-threadripper-2990wx-and-2950x-review/4 the extra infinity fabric links consume quite a lot of power.
I have the MSI x399 Gaming Pro Carbon and with the latest bios update it got cpu core voltage offset.
Motherboards in 2018 throwing self-destruct and self-deprecating knobs onto top-end motherboards. I guess they figure if you wanna splurge on their boards, you'll splurge again next year when your stuff is running sluggish or just dies on you.
360p. I'm too early.
guess AHOs channel is to demanding for yt.
Guess TH-cam is running on x399 zenith extreme?
Delta Zhang feelsbad
Really interesting breakdown. Looks like MSI made some quality product here. Do you know if the new Gigabyte X399 Xtreme MoBo is about on the same level as this? Keep it up!
Cross promotion with "the meg" movie confirmed.
So the VR uses a 8 phase controller with dumb phase doublers rather than using the Intersil active current sharing doublers. What do you see as the down side? Also, the effective number of phases as seen from the input caps is still 8 phases. Any benefit of it being a true 16 phase controller? Lastly, there are versions of those MOSFET power stages with exposed metal on top that helps improve heat sinking, but still need a insulating thermal pad since that metal is the switching node. Let me know. Thanks
For the zenith extreme the soc is 3 phases and asus ships heatsink for people who want to run TR2, so soc vrm should be ok. But the 8 phase vcore on the zenith is running very very very hot, and the 40mm fan that asus ships along the soc heatsink is not enough at all :/
is this buildzoid actually falling in love with MEG Creation?
Yea they should of ditched the meg (like literally everyone who gave pre release feedback said to) but I'm pretty sure it's because "the meg x399 creation" sounds a lot better than "the mega x399 creation"
Why the output bulk caps are 6.3V, and not 2.5V ?
With regards to names of motherboards, "designare" just means "designers" in Swedish. Given look of the board, including the weird font used, I think that's a rather apt name for the board.
MEG on the other hand ... yeah, I've no idea.
Okay, I get it. Even though not using it, WHY does the auto overclock always sucks?
Do you think a MSI Carbon AC board with 10+3 phases would handle well the 2990wx?
Finally some CPUs worthy of the Gigabyte UP7's VRM. That VRM should put this VRM to shame?
The hell, when I try to write with my mouse it's always utterly unreadable.
Also with the memory VRM, they need to be capable of running 512gb of 2666mhz ECC. That's actually not an easy task lol.
Is it possible to run a chiller rig 24/7 on your PC if you don't care about power usage? Then run the CPU at like 5.0 ghz?
I want to see DARK version of these x399 boards :(
only thing i dont like about this board is the location of the usb3 headers
Is it worth swapping a ASRock Fatal1ty X399 Professional Gaming motherboard for this one for later on powered a 2950X?
There's a hair in one of the ram slots in your photo you're using. That should probably be removed.
An automatic OC button that goes to 11? Sign me up!
"Puts a smile on my phase" hahaha clever.
It's good to question the Zenith, it fails under heavy 2990wx overclocking.
LORD OF FREEDOM Really?
Asus really went to shit!
well to be fair it's a 1gen TR board and a good one,
but I'm not upgrading on till after x-mas and the 2950x the front runner for me and I´m a AMD user and I already have th10a so cooling is not a problem,
but will it be monoblock Zenith or x399 MEG
I rushed last time and got 1800x and with all of the new thing coming out I didn't is Threadripper coming at that time :(
what's up with dual bios. A few years ago any good mobo/gpu used to have one and now nothing does, not even removable bios chips anymore
Hi like to ask your opinion about ASUS PRIME X399-A Socket TR4/X399/DDR4/S-ATA 600/E-ATX Motherboard - Black is any good?
Amazing Boards video, please!!??
Creation just means that this motherboard was built to be used as a Workstation.
I want asus's bios and pcie slots with this vrm and gigabytes x299 heatsinks :(
What if you get the zenith extreme and run a waterblock on the vrm, does that make them about equal?
THE DREEAMMM
you would hit the ceiling of VRM capabilities on liquid nitrogen, it's just 480 amps
best
Its a Megalodon....
do the ln2 pots have fins in them or is it just a metal pot?
Isn’t there dual bios right next to the 8pins
I was able to overclock my WX to 4.1 on all 32 cores with only 240 AIO cooler. It is a very good motherboard.
Hey bud,
do have any certain info if the NZXT Kraken G12 is 100% compatible with *Zotac 1080ti amp extreme* "non-reference" PCB ??
lol now its 1080p only^^
This is why we so badly need to have uefi emulators to validate software without the hardware. I got burned on my Asus board with shit bios, and now I'm reluctant to buy anything new without validation of the software no matter how good the hardware is.
Should their not be a heatsink over the chipset, or am I missing something?
The heatsinks are off so he can see the mosfets I'm pretty sure
What about the caps, usually MSI uses cheap ones vs Asrock or Asus?
I have no idea what caps MSI uses
do you care much if it's LOTES vs Foxconn sockets? i remember at one point it mattered...
Foxconn sockets seemed to have a design/manufacturing flaw that made them nearly impossible to thread in the screws properly. I can only hope they fixed that error by now but I haven't bothered to look. If they had made the thing correctly the first time then no one would have to think twice about sockets like that most of the time.
Megaladon ?
There is core offset voltage in this mobo with newer BIOS - imgur.com/a/8T3Bdj6
they are all signed by Jason Statham
MEG= megladon it an epic name and the board look like a shark
MAn that board looks SOOOOOO much better without that horrible shit all over it .
would be nice if VRMs came in slotted form like on some mini ITX boards. the top inch of this board is like $100 in an of itself in just VRMs and doublers and inductors. imagine using this on like an X470 or being able to re-use them
mrlithium not that easy to do slots that are capable of 70*16 A lol
RTX 2080 not GTX
Meglodon
When you hate MSI, but they release something decent...
Ok, how are the 435 people that liked this video going to throw in around $5 each so that buildzoid can get this thing on ln2?
Early bois
Wat? Designare is an awesome name. Go home, Buildzoid, you're drunk =P
Also: Yeah, as a Zenith owner, I think for it it's pretty much watercool or go home for those VRMs if you want to OC the 2990WX on it. Either with a monoblock or the VRM block from Watercool
MEG = MEGALADON ? that was CREATed lol
Megaladon..
thank s so much for saving our money from these motherboards shit they push to us.
*RTX 2080
Like #767