Custom Tenon Auger Blades, New Auger, or Both | Engels Coach Shop
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 6 ก.ย. 2024
- These 10' logging wheel spokes are challenging the limits of my tenon auger, as well as the 3/4" drill I use. I had to make special new blades, but it's still a lot to cut in one pass. So, I ordered a different style of tenon cutter to speed up the process and take some stress off of my drill. One way of another we'll get these tenons cut. Thanks for following along!
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Wow. What an episode. It’s a little sad though. If one of America’s master craftsman struggles a bit on those tenons, then there is NO hope for us mere mortals. Great job Dave.
Imagine 150 yrs ago when that work was done entirely with manual tools. Maybe some of the larger shops worked out a way to do the work with water wheels.
Say that again, Dana Mullen 2556 !!
No offense but it’s tenon. Mortise & Tenonjoinery. It’s a great way to join wood
@@jackieeastom8758 Thank you! And here I was worried whether it was craftsman or craftsmen. I can’t win. 🙂
Experts over think problems. Idiots overcome problems. If it stupid and it works, its not stupid. 😮
A bit of geometry, physics and a lot of common sense equals a neat solution to the problem. Thanks Dave always an interesting video.
Your homemade cutters and spade bits are great examples of resilience! You continue to inspire us all to be better than we are! Thank you! 😁👍
Watching you go through this process I find it amazing to consider just how much work this was back in the day with no electric motors. I suppose a large professional shop may have had steam or water power but with all the steps involved, the multiple set-ups would have been very labor intensive. There were some very clever folks helping to build the industry in our country and like yourself they weren’t afraid of a hard days work either!
I don’t think they would have done it this way. The spokes could be put straight into the felloes in angled holes, then clamped into the hubs. That’s why the hubs are demountable. Imagine how you would have to repair a broken spoke using his method. I can’t see how it could be done without taking the whole outside of the wheel apart.
I was also wondering how this was done back in the day. I assume the cutter was mounted on a hand brace and the angles were by eye. Work for a real man to be sure.
watching the man worl is pure relaxation. sadly though he starts talking maths and my brain goes stupid. the only regret i have from school is not paying attention in maths class
Check the voltage to the drill under load. You might need a shorter or bigger extension cord.
I was going to make a similar comment. I'd make large gage extension cord no longer than it needs to be to reach the outlet. That might help.
@@christopherlatham4254absolutely, ten gauge for sure.
We used skill saws in our manufacturing and we burned them out in a couple weeks. I checked the voltage under load and found it in the 50 volt range. Upgraded the 16 gauge wire to 14 gauge and got the voltage in the 100 range. Guys said the saws worked a lot better. No more burnouts. That big drill looks like 12 or 10 gauge would help it a lot.
I doubt that will help that drill. Its limiting factor is its motor and its winding/brushes especial with its age. Those motors were really inefficient even at the best of the line. It will have to be rewound and some updates to it and then it will get a great power boost. Biggest flaw to any of the old cast aluminum shelled tools of the era. That and the age of the resin coating they applied is very fragile and leads to many of the fails.
I'm saying to check the voltage under load. It will tell if it's a power supply problem or an insufficient motor.
This wheel requires a lot of thought to get it right the first time.
Good thinking Dave.
Files are made softer at the tang end, so the tang will have a little flexibility.
Yes, but he also attempted to re-harden the blade he made and it didn't work, so it is more likely that the file he used is probably not high carbon steel all the way through like old school files but is probably how a lot of modern files are now made: low carbon/mild steel and only the teeth section are case hardened..
X2 👍@@Flying0Dismount
Outdoor55 channel made a video on precisely this subject a couple months ago that was very informative.
I'm really glad the music and the pretty scenery is back !!
You need your own television show!
It’s common to run into difficulties. But you’ll appreciate the job more so when the job is done.
A lot of these younger fold need to watch you work, especially through the difficulties.
Too many modern conveniences today allows for most to give up and shelve a project. Or take unsafe short cuts.
I love watch the method of your working and thought process.
You remind me so much of my Pops.
Keep on being the beautiful addition to our world. Dianne is one lucky Gal.
This giant wheel come with big problems for the uninitiated builder. You are exhibiting super care and applying more than most in forethought on this project! Kudos Dave! I have to wonder how the original craftsmen figured out all the angles that you have labored thru so far. I can not wait to see you apply the tires to the felloes. The real question would be where in the shop could you do it? I will just have to wait to see. As always, your videos are appreciated and a friendly 'Bravo' to you!
When you don't have to program a computer to go a certain distance or angle, you don't have to assign numbers to them. Past craftsmen would have just drawn things on the floor or referenced off of other parts to the point where things need to happen. Just like Dave didn't have to assign a number to the angle the tenons needed to be cut. Floor to center of hub is the same distance needed for floor to center of the end of the spoke. Pull the spoke up/down to that height and point the drill straight at the center of the hub. Whatever angle gets cut is the angle that was needed. Patterns used to make the mould for the hubs would have been made by drawing; being exactly perfect isn't needed since the wood going in them can flex enough to compensate, as Dave demonstrated by pulling the spokes into place.
You can accomplish quite a lot by just fitting things together and making a story stick to record the discovered distances to be able to repeat them. No numbers needed. An established shop builds up a collection of patterns and jigs from completed projects to use for repeat builds and repairs.
I admire your patience and craftsmanship. I would've walked away way back at the beginning. I pray the owner is very, very grateful of your time and effort.
I don't know if the owner will show any emotion for all of Dave's work but I can assure you Dave will show emotion when payday comes around...😁
Hi Dave, and Diane, your customer sure picked the right guy for the job. It sure is quite the project, and exciting as usual. Have you had potatoes for dinner yet? Thank you for sharing, and take care.
Yes, we had scalloped potatoes.
Another masterclass Dave, thank you for sharing your knowledge with us! Warm greetings from the Netherlands, Bram
Warm greetings to you!
Watching you fight with wood and steel in 2023 gives me a tremendous respect for the original builders of those wheels, who did not necessarily have the power tools that-as powerful as they are-still struggle to cut those tenons.
A few have commented about the relative softness of the tang area.
Given Dave's demonstrated heat treatment knowledge, I suggest if Dave can't harden and temper a piece of steel there must be a metallurgical reason.
If we pay regard to the intended end use of Farrier's rasps, Rifflers and Dreadnought files we realise that flexibility is required.
The practical method of maintaining a flexible core is to start with a low carbon blank and re-carburise the working portion. Case hardening if you like.
Clickspring has a good video on replicating antique files. He (Chris) formed the teeth with punches and chisels on low carbon blanks then case hardened them successfully. He set out to demonstrate the origins of files circa 3000 years ago.
The process continues. You make the math very easy to understand. You would have made a good teacher. Stay safe.
Now I know where old horse rasps go. Very clever. Always enjoy your videos. God Bless you and Mrs. Engels.
Thank You. I believe you are a rare craftsman
Woohooo! Another episode of Dave Builds!
So much work goes into your projects thank you for sharing
Wonderfull work Dave, given all the issues your running into building these I believe you are putting more thought into this wheel than the original wheelwright.
Its a good thing Dave is on this job.Anyone else would be in big trouble.
Amazing how much labor and layout work in getting everything right. Ken be frustrating but worth it in the end . Nice workmanship. Thank you.
Who is Ken ?
Since each felloe section will engage only one upper and one lower spoke, it seems like the felloes are all going to want to sit at an angle. I can't wait to see how you resolve this.
Probably splines at each end joining the felloes together - something I've seen Mr Engles do on other wheels. Although with wheels this big he might have to employ the use of fish-plates...
The offset occurs because he is forming the tenons offset from the spoke angle… putting the tenons perpendicular to the centerline of the hub’s circumference. Thus, they will be plumb through the center of the felloes.
You're right. The felloes will all want to twist to be angled like fan blades. That will be an interesting thing to see him overcome.
It seems to me he is ignoring the benefit of the bolted hub. If the spokes were made straight only the holes in the felloes would need to be angled and all the spokes could be turned down on a lathe. Repairing a broken spoke would be easy, unbolt whichever cover you need removed, pick out the bit from the felly, put the new spoke in and rebolt. Minutes of work and you’re back in business.
What am I missing?
I, too, have a Van Dorn drill. I got it from an old fella about thirty years ago. He had bought it with his brother when they started an auto repair shop. Unfortunately, that was early in 1929. They went bust, but he still had the drill. I may not have the same model, but I know mine isn't "powerful". Check the amperage. That's a better gage of power.
I enjoyed the video. It's nice to know others have trials in the shop too.
i find your meticulous attention to detail and your never-give-up problem-solving attitude truly inspiring, Dave. I have tried to channel your attitude in the things I'm doing myself, no matter how far removed they be from your more challenging trade as an expert craftsman and wheelright. Your amazing work ethics can find universal application, I do believe.
Stay safe and we'll see you next week.
What outstanding craftsmanship!!!
I would think, just like your paddle bits, your tenon auger would benefit from an opposing second cutter.
Yup as in all drills!
No. Only MOST drill bits.
I have several commercial drill bits with only one cutting edge. For example: an adjustable auger.@@eastcoastwatch672
Maybe having a second blade something like a blade on a pencil sharper or a hand plane, in order to shave off the wood, then have the first blade to cleanly cut the tenon.
I have to wonder if adding a second blade would double the load on the drill. It's already struggling with one blade and I can't see how adding a second blade would make it easier. He is working at a pretty low speed so balance is less critical. I agree with him that taking some of the load off the cutting edge is the best course of action. I was thinking of applying less pressure when the drill starts loading down.
I would have chosen to wait for the other tenon cutter, too. You don't want to burn up the motor in that drill or burn up your patience when you can still use it to make progress in a parallel process.
I have a traveler wheel almost identical to yours hanging on the wall in my shop that I've never used so it is neat to see you use it today. I really enjoyed seeing your bits made out of rasps, what a great way to recycle rasps. Thanks for the video Dave!
Nice job on the homemade tenon cutter. I'd be tempted to reduce the shaking by adding a weight on the other side from the blade to balance it out.
It's ALWAYS amazing to watch everything that you do!
Love it Dave. What a thinker and doer. Burch Palmer, originally from Miles City.
Not far from Circle, where I was born. Not all of Montana is beautiful mountains and streams.
I love watching you work. I'm retired from making high-end custom windows of all shapes and sizes and we work much the same way.
Hi Dave and Diane ☺, looks like a whole bunch of problems your having to overcome, and yes the old drill is realy struggling, but your homemade cutter is working fine, just needs a few more horses to drive it,lol. Hopefully the fence post tool will do the job, and you'll start to move forward a little easier, I'm quite impressed whith the flat bits you've made , they cut really well, and unlike most flat bits won't flex and wander about. Many thanks for another interesting video mate, stay safe, best wishe's to you and Diane. Stuart, and Megan UK.
In my line of work I find that a bit of struggle every now and then, suppresses the ego and actually makes you stronger
*- Dave, what would happen if you fabricate your plane cutter to have a 45 degree angle with the long part of the cutter to the outside*
*- That way the knifing edge is slicing and there will be no fraying of the spoke's wood at the outside.*
*- It would work like running a block plane on a 45 degree angle across the end grain of a board.*
*- It is also how violin makers move their small finger and thumb planes across the growth ring grain of the curved inside and outside of the upper plate when shaving the curvatures of the top and bottom plates.*
That's a beefy drill motor to be able to take a cut that wide and that deep. No wonder it was bogging down as the cut got wider and the wood density changed. I bet the motor was starting to get a bit warm too. You made a good choice to wait for the other cutter, it would be a shame to burn up that drill motor.
Interesting stuff, thanks for sharing.
A pleasure as always , my maths is a little ( lot ) inventive shall we say but I always get there . The size of the work is making all of your tools struggle . Slow and easy will win the race .
Deep respect 👍🇬🇧
amazing to see howmany details you have to know to make a wheel .
Love to watch something I could never hope to do.
Thank you Dave for another Awesome video
I love how you can stop and figure out the way to make it work
God Bless
was glad to see how you figured the angel. I saw the problem back when you bolted the hubs together
These wheels are a task and a half. Thoroughly enjoying the content. I'm in the UK and still use proper measurements. Oh to have a measure in only inches, ours all have some other stuff on as well.
You are really smart!
That big Drill grabs Head for tall timber! Nice work!
Dave i am sure you know that if you heat carbon steel to the colour of boiled carrot one hour per inch of thickness and then quench - it will be as hard as. then you temper it to reduce the brittleness to produce a usable tool. The tangs of a file are manufactured soft to prevent them breaking off when attaching handles etc - stay safe
Dave, from a guy who can't cut a straight line with a miter saw, i find your videos fascinating.
I would like to know if your videos are or will be stored by some organization that will make them available to craftsman in the future? I would hate to think that all your knowledge would be lost.
Grumpy Bill
Very good lesson Dave thanks.
Nice home made tools. You have way too much fun! 😊
Enjoyed the longer video, very interesting.
just WOW i love your videos
It seems a shame that this man has no one with him to pass all his knowledge to because he would be a great teacher
Perhaps it is his choice to work alone. He does the videos to pass some of his knowledge and experience on to the next generation
Might want to check the brushes in that drill. Shorter cord maybe as well? Maybe even it’s own 20amp circuit breaker?
What I love is that it’s not the end of the world. It’s just a thing to deal with. And you deal with them in clever ways. Thanks for teaching me to not freak out when problems come my way!
Love those homemade spade bits. I resize store bought spade bits on a belt sander and file, but I never thought of starting from scratch. They look robust, I imagine they never chatter.
I don't know if I would have the guts to make the first tenon or drill the tenon holes in the felloes after so much effort, great job it's compelling to watch you as a tool maker for your wheelwright needs. I am eagerly awaiting to see what you use to affix the fellows to each other and how the felloes are attached to the tire. After you had showed the alignment of the tenon with the axis of forcel/load from the hub to the tire I see how much stronger the finished wheel will be showing how important this carefull aligning of the tenon is before cutting. Ray Stormont
Great work. All issues that had to be worked out beginning with the first wheel wright that made these wheels. Always a pleasure to watch. Thanks for sharing.
Awesome jig work! Files (kinda like the old irons from scythes) have different metals in different parts of the file, i'm suspecting you were getting duds on account of the different metals in the file.
I've always cut the tenons on a table saw. Set the depth and run it back and forth. Works great.
I truly enjoy watching your youtube channel. Thank you for sharing.
I hate to have to reinvent the wheel but your doing just fine who'd would have guessed. Good Job.
Holy cow?? What a masterpiece of skill!😊
Epic journey. Patience of a saint!
Dave:
what an outstanding video. It is ingenuous the way you solve problems and keep working on them until it works for you. If I needed to drill an 1 3/4" hole in a piece of wood I would have bought an 1 3/4" bit, probably a forstner and not inexpensive. You had the ingenuity to make a perfectly acceptable spade bit. I really admire ability to solve problems and keep on working. Thank you David Adair
Great job
Very interresting in the way you have to work every thing out well done
As usual great video Mr Dave and Ms Diane! Like you I have lived my whole life with our screwed up measurment system (I'm the pilot that stopped by your shop last year). I didn't realize how much easier the metric system was until I started watching TH-camrs from around the world. They don't use 5/8" steel plate they use 15 "Mil" plate, if they needs something thicker they go to 20 "Mil" , no mental gymnastics of converting eights to sixteenths then adding a few to see where that falls in the standard size world. Imagine how easy it wolub be to need 370 MM so half way would be 185 MM, we could all throw our calcultors away! I never liked learning the metric system in school but now I kind of wish the US would have made the transition back in the 70's..... Enjoying this project, thanks for bring us along!
I did wonder if the wood is swelling when it gets hot and grabbing the inside of the tennon cutter, maybe try a bit of that bar soap, I really enjoy your vlogs, thank you.
I am not a wheelwright but I have a lifetime of professional woodworking behind me. So I found myself musing if lowering the cutting angle on your tenon cutter might handle milling that end grain a bit better. Just a hunch.
Super creative way to solve the problem
Yeah having something take that much a bite is a tough job for any tool. Having a larger tool to take off the outer smaller chunk and then finish up is the best. Help make it easier for the drill motor too. Thing is not easy to replace. I have ran into that with metal and step bits, the larger the step size gets the more strain on the drill. I have a drill that has changeable heads and from the drill head to an impact driver head changed a fair bit. Went from not enough to where it was chewing right through it but it can put more stress on the bit. Trade offs of a job with tools, sacrifice the motor or the bits for the work in the end.
Well since several dozen people asked about having a second blade on your cutter, I'm hoping you give us your thoughts pro or con in the next video.
Wooden precision by the ton -- good stuff!
Thank you for this video I really appreciate.
When you first start this build I figured the spokes would be akimbo where they needed to meet the fellos I recall wondering how that was going to work out. You come up with an elegant solution. Well Done! Thanks for posting.
A more elegant solution would be to drill the holes into the felloes at an angle and make the spokes straight. Broken ones could then be easily replaced since the hubs bolt together.
One thing for sure, I have never heard one of the huge old drills struggle so much. Around here they are known as man killers because they have so much torque!
Wow what a craftsman
Always amazed at the engineering and ingenuity required in this form of work. Thanks!
Brilliant Dave, I love the way you solve these issues in a cool calculated and considered manner and apart from buying that fence cutter you have done everything in house! Fantastic, regards to Diane too. Stu (an avid follower from the UK).
Hey Y'all, Thanks for sharing. Blessings.🤔
I thoroughly enjoy watching you talk through your imperial math and measurements using the traveler tool. Have you ever featured that circular tool in a how to use video?
It’s always amazing watching you work 👍
I work between imperial and metric. Just made a simple cupboard which was 8feet long and 400mm deep!!! I followed the fractions segment and smiled as it does my lads head in as he is pure metric. I'm a hobby model engineer and often convert fractions to decimal for better tolerances.
I have the formula for converting fractions to decimal equivalents in my head from elementary school. Converting inches to metric is there too. Of course now I can cheat on the metric to imperial conversion and just pull out my cell phone. The calculator app has a conversion feature and when it comes to doing it with a tired brain, I'll just use the cell phone.
Reconfigure the blade of the cutter to remove about half the cut it is doing now,may be slower but drill will last longer. Great paddle drill bitts.
I had a chuckle at the imperial versus metric thing. I have had the misfortune of dealing with imperial measurements of thousands of a inch combined with metric. I could feel my brain leaking out of my ears! Turned out the measure translated to about a standard metric bolt (10 or 15 mm I think) but it was listed as something eighths and so many thousands of a inch.
Thanks for sharing 👍
Thanks for sharing. Very enjoyable and educational.
Thank you Mr. Engles for taking us along for the ride. Do you have any videos showing how you made your spade bits you used for the felloes ?
dear engel, just take a brake and think it over. since you have to put 2 tennons in every fellow, now, under pressure of the clamps it works. but, without the support of the clamps the fellow will follow the line defined by the two individual spokes involved with the fellow an it will tilt out of line. In follow of that, the fellows will stay under pressure and they wont stay in line. when you then try to force all the fellows back in line, you will brake either the spokes or the tennons or both. I suppose you have to go back to the beginning and first remove all spokes and taper them so they will low down or rise up and will come in line without the support of any clamps. Then you are allowed to continue and cut the tennons and put the fellows. In any case, good luck. In my mind, this is the most challenging progect you ever had.
He should just turn the spokes down straight on a lathe and angle the holes into the felloes. Then he can just bolt the hub cap back on.
It seemed like pretty simple calculations to figure the correct angle, but when you showed your camera angle line up with the hub like you explained , its right in line like you talked about when figuring it.
Wow. I doubt an MIT graduate could figure all that out.
These wheels are a real challenge and an amazing experience to watch And yet, you make it seem easy.
Also there is a lot of confidence displayed in this process that only highlights the wealth of experience you have in this trade.
This is all truly fascinating to follow along.
That’s the thing, these weren’t built by MIT graduates in the 1800s. I think he’s missed the point of having a bolted hub. If he drilled the holes into the felloes at an angle he could just clamp the whole assembly together. I believe these were likely built of stock parts, turned down on a lathe, hammered home and clamped down. Repairing a broken spoke would be relatively easy and could be done with the tire in place.
@@blacksquirrel4008 you again. What? are you going to comment snipe your way through all these videos?
I think you need to cut slots on the sides of your auger Dave, this will relieve the tension that builds up whilst cutting and improve the cutting rate.
Happy Friday Dave!
Just an observation
It seems to me the tendon shoulder should have a circumferential face to match the radius of the fellow
and yes the File Tangs are drawn back so they bend with handle instead of snapping off and hurting someone
Remember what my Dad used to say in the Shop... "If you don't have what you need to finish the job - Improvise!"
Thanks Dave
Hello Dave, your tennon cutter may benefit from a balance weight on the opposite side to your cutter. Excellent vdeo as always, Ray.
Your kind of may is also my kind of math. It adds up for me!